At church was the only peace I had felt.

You know what I mean?

Literally just prior to, I got jumped

because my mom was sleeping with the neighbor

in the duplex who was married, and she called her grandsons,

and then I ended up getting popped in the face.

Like, hectic, crazy life, you know?

And it's just like, "All right, I'm done with this, man.

Something's got to change."

This is the Made to Advance podcast.

I'm your host, Brian Aulick.

We're here to inspire and equip you for your best future.

Well, hey, I've got a special guest with us today.

Stephen Malcolm is in the house.

Stephen's a hip-hop artist out of Grand Rapids, Michigan.

He's got something like 60 million streams of his work.

He's been nominated for seven Dove Awards.

He's had all kinds of incredible collaborations,

including this summer with Snoop Dogg, "Come on, Somebody."

And he's most importantly, a husband and a father,

and he's here with us today.

And so, Steven, welcome to Made to Advance.

Come on.

Oi, oi, how you doing, man?

Man, I'm good.

I've been looking forward to this.

I was trying to figure out, you can help me with this.

I was trying to figure out when do we first meet?

And so here's the only thing I can put together,

and then you may be able to fill it out better than me.

So I got to know Troy Evans about the time

of the Edge's launch, right?

Yep.

And you were part of the Edge from the jump, right?

No, no, the second year.

Second year?

They launched and then I came the second year.

Okay, so you remember what year that was?

2010.

2010, wow, wow.

Well, no, no, no, sorry.

It was, I think maybe 2011, yeah, 2011.

Okay, it's so funny, I still look back at those times.

I wonder if Troy Everett does,

'cause the movement that he was part of

with planting the edge,

they required you to have like a church planting,

I don't know if they called it coach or mentor,

and I had been planted and we were doing well and all that.

But I remember, they partner up me with like,

I mean, I was younger, I suppose I had that going for me,

but here's this like suburban church in Holland.

And they're like, yeah, and you know what?

Troy requested me, so in their defense,

but I'm like, yeah, I'm sure I got so much to say

to a hip hop church in Grand Rapids.

I'm sure I've got so much relevant experience,

but it was good 'cause I got to see like front row

from the day one I was there at the first service,

first session, and I was like, oh my gosh,

I can't wait to see what God does with this.

Shout out to the Edge, man.

speaks to the people. And the thing about the Edge too is the diversity is

what's beautiful man. So yeah people like you can come in and then you have

somebody like Troy but the like in I just feel like in the urban context

there's just so much diversity within it that it's just just beautiful man you

just come in it gets received. Yeah I can't wait to I get it's been a while so

it's so funny though with schedules as they are you know there are all these

great things going on in our area and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I gotta get over there.

I gotta get over there."

So, well, I'd love to just, I mean, we're gonna just go way back right now.

We went kind of back to the beginning of the edge.

But part of what I love to do is just hear people's stories.

And a big part of us doing this podcast is that people will be able to listen and they'll

be like, "Man, if he could do it, if she could do it, I can do it."

And so help us out and just take us through your journey of kind of some growing up and

what what growing up was like and we know some of this from lyrics and I'll get to a

song off a tree a little bit later.

Go ahead and yeah, just take us through some of your journey.

Yeah, so my journey would have to start in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

That's actually where I was born.

Okay.

Shout out to my dad.

He was a Jamaican immigrant.

And even recently, man, like I used to start there, but now like knowing my history for

real, just being a grown man with a family, I've learned a lot more.

Just so I always have to tell people where I came from.

And so yeah, my mother was sexually abused as a child, physically abused by mom and goes

to tell mom about the sexual abuse and the mom's like, nah, you're lying.

And so she runs away from home and grew up in group homes.

She grew up right in Wedgwood, where I say I pass that place all the time in Grand Rapids.

And then at 22, she meets my dad.

And prior to that, she was in an abusive relationship where he had her prostitute in Out on Division.

Oh my gosh.

Smoking crack.

Oh my gosh.

True story.

Then meets my dad.

My dad's like 20 years older than her.

So it was just a quick hookup thing, but she got pregnant.

And my mom was like, "Yo, he handed me the $200 to go get an abortion."

You know what I mean?

Like, "Two months, you didn't plan this.

This isn't my wife, so here you go."

And she refused, and she was willing to leave him if he didn't, but he did.

And so I'm here.

And then my father started dealing drugs, which was crazy because he was working at

GM.

And we were like a middle class family in Kalamazoo, but money is the root of all evil.

He's loving it, you know what I mean?

And I think greed took over, so he ended up getting busted.

Him being a Jamaican immigrant, they deported him back to Jamaica.

And then that was the last time I seen him.

I was nine years old.

And he was a great father, you know what I mean?

But not the best boyfriend to my mom.

He was as well abusive towards her

and cheated on her multiple times.

Were you aware of that at the time?

Or was that something y'all found out later?

Yeah, found out later.

She told you, yeah.

Yeah, super, super reckless.

My mans was super reckless, you know what I mean?

And so-

And we just have to, I mean, I know,

wanna keep going all, but just like,

what was at stake in your mom deciding to say,

"I'm staying with this pregnancy."

And it's crazy to think.

I mean, that was you.

Yeah, yeah.

And we're having this conversation

'cause she made a courageous decision.

Yeah, it was because of,

my mom told me that having kids

was the first time she felt love.

Wow.

She didn't get it from mom.

Mom was hitting her and spitting on her.

Dad was taking pictures of her in the shower.

And so kids were her first experience with love.

So no, you're not gonna take this love from me, sir.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, right.

So yeah, she kept it and I love her to death.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And so boom, dad gets deported

me and my mom and my sister, we moved to Florida.

And my mother, you know, coming up how she came up,

she was an alcoholic, man, like rough life,

you know, doing all that stuff.

And she, you know, had vices.

And so I watched my mom all throughout my childhood

just drink, literally, and be drunk

by the time I'm home from school.

And then the relationship she got in with my stepdad,

it was one of those toxic relationships

where they just argued all their time.

And he really wasn't the best father figure anyway,

even to his real kids, kinda.

And are they living with you two at the same time,

his real kids, or are they someplace else?

Yeah, they're someplace else too, man.

That's a whole crazy situation too.

Yeah, his business is his business.

I won't get out here.

Yeah, so it's you, your stepdad, and your mom at this point.

And my mom, yep.

And they would just go out and then argue, man, and drink.

They both would drink.

And my mom would tell me like he would do cocaine.

And so it was just, he doing cocaine

and they're both getting drunk and then arguing.

And that's all I seen.

And so me and my sister, we really had like no type

of guidance when it came to like a comforting,

compassionate parent who, and as a parent,

I believe you should be your kid's first friend.

You know what I mean?

And we didn't really have that.

So me, I turned to Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant.

I gravitated towards basketball and Michael Jackson with the dancing.

And those were my parents, literally, basically.

I cried when Kobe died because he had a really profound effect on my life and my ambition

and molding me as, "Okay, that's what a man looks like or does, so let me do that."

You know what I mean?

So I was an athlete in high school, no guidance from a father, no father figure, and my mom

just doing her own thing.

I was that kid that was just partying, dancing, and doing the hoop thing.

My life and my family was just so just entrenched in the trenches.

If you know, you just know what I mean with that.

My cousins was gang banging.

My street brothers was gang banging.

My sisters, they were working at a strip club.

I used to drop my sister off at a strip club.

I have no license, but I would drop her off because I want to use the car to go meet this

chick and I'll pick you up sis at 2 a.m. like literally man it was wild my

childhood was a little wild man does that I mean now so much has changed for

you yeah do you look back on those days and you're like that just feels like

another world or do you feel like you know I'm saying I mean or does it feel

like no that feels like is my story from yesterday or does it feel like that's

just something I don't even I'm like watching a movie when I think it's like

a movie when I think about my past man and the things that I've seen and gone

through you know what I mean and so yeah sis stripping, cousins gang banging, bros gang

banging and me I just want to be successful and you know have money and

life and prosper and so I was trying the basketball thing but you know you find

out as a young man you know at the age you know 17 to 19 it's like who am I

what is my purpose what is a man what is it like to be a man you know what I mean

and that's the role of a father and me I didn't have that so at those at that age

those questions weren't being answered and they weren't there.

And all I'm doing is just sleeping around with women

and just playing basketball.

And it just felt empty after a while, man.

And next thing you know, everybody around just kept on saying,

"Yo, check out this hip-hop church."

So you're back in Grand Rapids at this point.

-You're how old? -I'm 19.

-19. -18, 19.

Yeah, so you just finished high school?

-Just finished high school. -Just finished high school.

You've been doing your thing, but you're going, "This isn't..."

I mean, you're feeling at some level right then,

you've got this hunger for a better life,

but you're also feeling empty 'cause basketball

and what you're doing isn't working.

Yes. - Yeah.

Okay, so then that catches us up to this hip hop church,

which is called The Edge.

Yeah, yeah, man.

A guy that was on the varsity team with me,

who I partied with and wild out with.

Next thing you know, a couple of years pass,

I see him playing ball at this rec center,

and I'm like, "Yo, what you been up to?

"How you doing?"

"Yo, I gave my life to Christ, you know, I go to this hip-hop church."

You're like, "What?" - Yeah, it was totally blown away,

'cause, bro, like, we were at this party, and my mans was so drunk

that, like, we thought the cops was knocking on the door,

and he bust out the window just to run away.

Like, he was wild-- he was a wild one.

And now to say, like, "Hey, I'm giving my life to Jesus,

I don't do these things anymore," like, I was like, "Yo, that's crazy."

Like, flat out, that's crazy, because you were wild.

But he had a poise about him and he was like, "Yeah, you should come check it out.

I know you like rapping and dancing.

Come check it out."

So he was the first one.

Then somebody else said it, and then somebody else said it.

And then, yeah man, somebody else said it.

And I was like, "Let me check this thing out."

And it was on Saturday nights, which yeah man, shout out to Troy, man.

It was something about like, "Oh, this isn't a Sunday morning.

Okay, this is a Saturday night.

Okay, let me check this out."

You know what I mean?

walk in and me, I didn't grow up in a church household,

but I grew up, you know, as American, you know,

we're Christian, you know what I mean?

Sure, sure.

So my conception of church, and I did have it

because I walked into like one church before

when my mom like went to rehab and it was in Granville

and they were like, you know, pick up your pants.

You know, like.

I started a young adults ministry like college 20s

when I was my first pastoral role.

And this dude walks in with this hat on

and there was an older person there

and she taps him on the shoulder.

And she's like, you need to take off your hat in church.

And I came up to her afterwards and I was like,

okay, you can never say that to somebody that's got,

if you're gonna come in here,

you're welcome to come in here,

but don't be coaching people on their hats

or their pants or anything else.

'Cause they're just here to,

they're here to take a step for them.

And imagine like, because you're already scared

nervous about this and it's divine so it's real you know what I mean?

But so we're like, "Uhh." It's like then it's like, "Oh you..."

It's like, "Ah." So I had a real misconception of like, "Oh this is this. This is a, you know,

a conservative white thing that doesn't, you know what I'm saying, like

that judges me." And I already had went through like mad racist stuff. I stayed

in Hudsonville for a little while. I always tell people that's where I learned how to fight.

And so, man, so I'm like, "All right, churches, I gotta, you know, take my hat off, pick up

my pants, and so let me stay away."

So when The Edge came around and I walked through these doors, I'm like, "Yo, okay,

this is not what I thought, you know, or this just looks different, it sounds different,

it feels different."

Troy gets up, he looks different, he sounds different, he feels different.

He crump dancing on the stage.

He's young.

He's a high schooler, black.

He gets off stage and I'm like, "Yo, you are an amazing dancer."

He looks at me and said, "Yo, glory to God."

What?

Wait a minute, you're a young, talented individual and you're not saying, "Yeah."

No, you're saying, "Glory to God."

Different man, just different.

It was something captivating.

Where I was at in my life, it was just hectic craziness.

This podcast would be going on for three hours if we were really to dive into that part.

But I was just compelled because "At Church" was the only piece I had felt.

You know what I mean?

Literally just prior to, I got jumped because my mom was sleeping with the neighbor in the

duplex who was married.

She called her grandsons and then I ended up getting popped in the face.

Hectic crazy life, bro.

And it's just like, "All right, I'm done with this, man.

Something's got to change."

So I was like, this place feels peaceful.

This place feels right.

You know what I mean?

And so I just kept on going, man.

I kept on going.

You know, it's interesting 'cause when people are saying

like, oh, Lord God, and these things,

sometimes I think people like Christians feel like,

oh, I gotta not come on too strong, right?

I gotta come on not too weird or things like that.

And obviously those are good things to think about.

But even for that dude you knew who was partying and

then was saying he was going to the edge.

I mean, it just strikes me folks were overt with their faith.

They were putting it out there.

And maybe to some they would look kind of odd and whatever, but

maybe somebody else be cynical or blow them off.

But it's their willingness to put it out there that was connecting with you.

So you're at the edge, you're sensing,

you're sensing this is a peaceful place

and this is speaking to my soul,

that what's your spiritual journey look like then

from that point on?

Yeah, I mean, what happens?

It was all the Holy Spirit

because I was sitting in the pews texting my homie,

like, "Hey, where the party at tonight?"

You know, I didn't come with no agenda.

It's funny 'cause I was talking with my friend

just the other day and he's like,

he's contemplating, you know,

Lord is calling him basically.

And he's like, "You know, I don't want to stomp.

That's not my focus."

I'm like, "Bro, I know, trust me."

I was, you know, but watch, just watch, bro.

It's like, just come and the Lord will work.

And so that's what he did, man.

I just showed up.

I would take the city bus by myself.

I was the only one, you know, from my family.

Like, take the city bus, boom, get there.

And, you know, after, it was like after two months,

to the Holy Spirit, two months,

shout out to the Holy Spirit, man.

to like, I didn't want to listen to what I was listening to anymore.

So all I would listen to was, you know, Reach Records and shout out to them boys at 116.

And it helped me grow.

Like it helped that even that helped me memorize some scripture, you know what I'm saying?

When I would hear it in the lyrics.

So then I go back and read my Bible and read it all in context.

And you know, it would really help me grow.

Was that as far as like the Christian hip hop movement?

Are we, I mean, we're relatively at the front end

of some of the major artists today.

I mean, like, I think I remember hearing you say

that Lecrae was the first Christian hip hop artist

you listed, right?

Yeah, yeah.

So when do you think his career started?

I mean, was it around that time

or he had a lot of projects out by that time?

He had like two albums out prior

and then right when I started coming to the Faith

he dropped Rehab, which Rehab was his third, right?

Yeah, after the music stops, Real Talk,

and then yeah, Rehab.

That was his third album.

Still pretty front edge though as far as-

Absolutely, it was like when his momentum

really got started because then he came,

remember the Orbit Room?

And they came to the Orbit Room

and that was my first concert.

Man, I walked in and you see just thousands of youth

like screaming, "One, one!"

I was like, "Yes, this is it, this is dope."

You know what I mean?

And yeah, just, and so after two months, man,

the Holy Spirit, the music,

and then the music helped with "I Stopped Cussing."

And then it was just,

it was a lot of God moments, man, that were,

and then like, I always tell,

I think me and my boy was having a convo the other day,

where it's just like, I feel like

when you first come to the faith,

you really experience divine moments

because God was really like trying to show out.

And yeah, like there were just moments of confirmation, man,

and just, it just snatched me, bro.

The Lord just snatched me, dawg.

Yeah, and after the convo with my mom on her birthday,

it really showed me, it wasn't,

because I'm a talented individual,

I'm a hardworking individual,

and a lot of that can take praise

for me being where I'm at,

but I really realized that no,

I am where I am solely because I gave my life to Jesus, bro.

Nothing else, dog.

Not the talent, not the skill,

not me being able to get up at 5 a.m. after staying up till 4.

You know what I mean?

Like, it's purely the Lord, and the trajectory that I'm on

is just because of Him, you know?

Glory to God.

Man. - So it's lit.

What'd your mom think when she's seeing you

making these changes, and all of a sudden

changing your vocabulary,

changing who you're hanging out with?

She thought it was ill,

and she's seen the real work of God,

because, bro, I was,

my mom would be the first to tell you, bro,

I used to wild out in front of my mom,

Just because my mom's like that cool mom that like just kind of let me do whatever but I was just a good kid

So man, I would cuss in front of her. I would bring chicks home

And I remember I because I was broke so I used to have my mom's phone texting

females, bro

from my mom's phone

But she appreciate the change yeah for her to and she's seen it like

1980 bro after I gave my life to Christ like dedicated I got baptized and I was going to the edge for a year my mom

Did it rededicated her life to Christ and I got to baptize her? Oh my yeah, beautiful moment, bro

That was full circle, bro. I don't know if I could have kept it together if I were in your shoes at that point

Yeah, she man. She was yeah

She was trembling because her story, you know, like I was telling a little her story is just way deep and um

She still like has trauma from it

And so she had to like get up and kind of tell her story and she was shaking what yeah, she had a boy though

Yeah, so what were you writing at that time already when you started attending the edge where you start? Yeah, okay

Yeah, it's crazy how it worked out because yeah my junior and senior year in high school

Hooked up with some friends

One of them was dating my sister and they were like older big bros

and because they were like, you know from 20 to 25 and they lived in this house in the hood and

And they would always be like, "Truth, when you gonna come to the studio?"

And I was a hooper, so I'm like, "I ain't going in no studio."

Y'all a little rap group.

They had a little rap group called Exclusive.

Shout out to Exclusive.

But one night, me and my cousin just found our way to the studio.

And I'll never forget, man, they just put a beat on and they asked me to write, and

I did.

And you know how some people, you hear yourself back and you're like, "Ugh."

But I heard myself.

I was like, "Yo, I sound pretty good."

I like this.

That's what I feel like every time I put these headphones

on and use this mic, I'm like, I sound better on this mic

than I do in real life.

So you hear yourself back the first time and you go,

all right.

That's a good thing.

So I was like, yo, this is kind of cool.

And yeah, that house was literally designated to partying

and recording music and that's all that went on.

And so I would go over there and you know, I'm a little bro

so yo, Truth, you know, come in.

And what had happened was my boy Flames taught me

engineer myself. We'd be down there and he taught me how to engineer Pro Tools so

we would record music and then they would party all night. Me, I was an athlete

playing basketball so I wouldn't party. So the next morning while they're all

you know saying sleeping in I'd go record. So I'd have like just four hours

from like six to whenever to just record music by myself and that's where I

secretly like fell in love with music. I was still like basketball basketball

basketball, basketball, but God was like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no." So yeah, man,

slowly but surely, yeah, boom, giving life to Christ, and then I was able to like,

okay, hey, I learned how to record myself and I was playing with it here, so after

a year of attending The Edge, Troy, the pastor, was like, "Hey, it's time to get

off your butt." You know what I'm saying? How you gonna serve God? How you gonna serve

his people? Because we're here to serve, you know what I mean? And I was like, you know,

I rap a little bit.

He's like, "Yo, you ever thought about

"hopping on the worship team?"

So I gave it a shot and fell in love, man.

From the, was it like, was it similar to being in the

studio where the moment you were up there first time,

you go, "I'm at home, I'm at home."

'Cause that was how for me speaking, preaching,

I'd never preached in my life.

And the first time I got up, I was so nervous beforehand.

The moment I got up, I just was at home.

It just felt like I was alive and it was me

and I wasn't worried about what are they thinking

or any of that stuff, I just was like there.

But was that how it was for you first time on?

Absolutely.

And me like being a ball player,

all my life like blessed with tears to this day,

like I came through and hooped like to this day.

I never had a feeling like in playing ball,

how I do on stage, that satisfaction and even that fruit.

So yeah, just all these years of hooping

in that one time on stage and I just found,

oh, this is my element.

Yeah.

What's the journey like between,

so there's a decent number of years

like there would be for a lot of people

if they're in kind of their artistic track

between when you're starting to perform,

you're starting to write, and eventually you get signed.

Take us through, and it's tough

'cause like you were saying earlier,

I mean, this could be like a 10-hour podcast

with all the steps and all the journey,

but take us through the journey of everything from,

okay, I'm in front of people

and I'm realizing there's something here,

to now I'm signed and I'm doing like this is my job.

Yeah, so I'm working at Nordstrom Rack part-time

and literally like, this was my schedule, man.

And shout out to my niece, man.

She's got the work ethic like me.

I would work 8 a.m. until noon or two,

literally get off work, go to school,

like GRCC, do my classes and then at night,

Troy, the pastor of the church, built a studio in the church.

So at night after my classes, I would go to the Edge

and there would be B. Cole and Mark, my two homies,

and we all three literally would live at the Edge.

B. Cole would be making beats,

Mark would be dancing in the sanctuary, reading his Bible,

I'd be in the studio recording.

And so I just entrenched myself with my brothers in Christ.

Literally like I cut off all like my bros,

like you know those who will follow me will deny himself

and take up his cross.

Bro I cut off everything that I knew and followed Christ.

So just was hanging out with my boys

and recording just all night man, every night.

And then literally like sometimes,

like I said I worked 8 a.m. to noon,

sometimes I'd be recording and then walk out those doors

and the sun will be coming up.

It's 6 a.m. and then I would take the bus

'cause it takes two hours for the route to work

and make it there at eight.

Faithfully, that was my grind coming up,

those five years of independently grinding.

And my decision maker, because everybody was a rapper

with the blank disc and the permanent marker,

remember those days?

Check my demo out.

And I hated that.

I didn't wanna be that.

But it was one breakfast morning where I sat down with Troy,

and this is why fatherlessness to me is such a passion of mine,

because us as fathers, we can speak so much life

into our children, specifically into our sons.

Troy looked at me and was like, hey, if you can pay your bills off of music,

would you do music?

I was like, absolutely.

But it just doesn't seem like a reality, but it sounds cool.

This is literally what I said.

He was like, you should pursue it, man.

you should really think about it and pray about it.

And so with me leading worship every Saturday,

hopping on stage and just seeing people

be impacted by the gospel,

that's where like just the passion just caught on fire.

And then me being able to record in the studio

and then me working at a place like Nordstrom Rack

where like, bro, I was making like $12 an hour

as a college student working part time.

So I was making like $1,200 a month as a college student

Part time. Yeah, that's good money. Yeah, and so although I'd be struggling if I you like style too and you're surrounded

Did you did you struggle with like I'm spinning have my check on the clothes

Are you all I would buy things from was Nordstrom so I'd get 20% off my wardrobe. Yeah, I mean, so I remember buying Gucci shoes for $80

But

Um, I looked at my life man, and I'm like I'm working part-time

enough to pay my rent and live on my own,

I'm living on my own, and I'm doing this music thing.

And so I was like, "Man, let me really pray about it."

And it was the first time, 'cause I've heard that still voice

a couple times for real, for real, as a believer.

But the first time I heard it, I prayed.

Man, my boy Street said, "Get on your knees and pray."

And I asked God, you know, and I did.

And I was like, "Lord, my life is looking like I could do it,

but Lord, if you want me to do it, should I do it?"

And I just heard a still voice say,

"It's not you, you're just the tool.

I'm doing this, so go."

And I just went, bro. I went and was like, "All right."

What's the "went" look like?

I mean, what's the next step then?

It was me literally looking in the mirror saying,

"I'm not gonna play basketball anymore.

I wanna be a rapper."

(laughing)

And I stopped balling like cuz still my mindset was alright, whatever I'm doing

I'm going you know gonna get some hooping in or something. So I was like, alright, let me I'm gonna be an artist

I'm gonna dedicate myself. I'm gonna come out with songs. I'm gonna make a project

So literally man, my first project was called Christ my swag

The cover was I set my phone down and turned around and took a picture

And put the text from my phone app where can we find this picture?

Is it you got it on you can probably Google Stephen Malcolm Christ my swag and it'll an image will probably come up, bro

dead serious, man. And I had on a dress shirt that I wore from Nordstrom with some true religion

pants that I got from Nordstrom. I can't make this up, Tank. So, uh...

If we have the ability, when this goes live, we're gonna find that image.

It's gonna flash right up here.

Please put it up. Yep. And I was living with a guy named Don on the west side who lived literally

across the street from Parkway Tropics and he grew weed. That was my biggest situation.

I was the believer in the house. Man, well actually he passed away, man, so rest up Don.

But he was a good dude, yeah, like he was the first person who like, he allowed me to

like, oh, you know, roommate with me and so I was living with him, paying rent.

Still working at Nordstrom?

Yeah, working at Nordstrom and then going to CC and then going to the church. And I

heard God tell me that and so I just went bro and obedience is important bro

and you know that as a believer. I really felt God say go so I went and I

grinded man for you know them years man. How many projects and I don't know if

you were putting out more and you know more with singles or projects, proper

EPLB, three projects. Okay literally like whole albums that you can't

really find because once I got signed they took them down. Gem for anybody

listening don't ever do that because I owned all that so now with all my

accolades I'll be making all that money off of three albums because those are

mine so never do that on somebody but yeah Christ my swag real hip-hop and

then monsters Inc my babies Wow that's gotta feel like a sweet thing to look

back on cuz I mean even though everybody's hoping to get signed at

some point still that's the road that got you there and yeah every night man

With your friends, yeah.

If you love to do something, do it every day.

You know what I mean?

And my thing was, I was doing contests.

'Cause it's a smart thing to do.

Like any, specifically with artists and music,

there's always musical stuff going on in the city.

So I would always jump in these contests.

And I would always lose.

Like, and like, bro, the stuff was great.

But it would be little things like,

it would be, you know, a popularity thing.

Like, get as many people to like your video

and then you win, or you know.

So you're not winning on the merits of the material,

you're winning on.

Votes.

One of them I'll never forget, bro,

was a youth pastor who, bro, could not rap like that.

He just, like, was a youth pastor of a congregation.

And he had thousands of votes, bro,

and he got to open up for Andy Minio in Detroit.

And I'm like, come on.

Now Andy Minio's my friend, you know what I mean?

Come on!

But I'm losing.

And then finally this one contest came around,

and yeah, it was about 2015,

2015, and it was an artist named Cannon threw a contest,

and it was a chopping contest.

Now from the Midwest, chopping means rapping really fast,

and it's a Midwest thing.

And I was blessed to learn,

and I knew how to chop very well.

And Mark, shout out to my DJ, sent me the contest.

he sent me and shared it to me and was like, "Yo, you gotta do it."

And I told him, "No."

I'm like, "Bro, I'm done."

Because I would do these contests, lose, but then put out a song and people love it.

Or I'd go to a show for like 500 bucks.

Like, I'm a real artist losing to youth pastors, bro.

I was mad discouraged.

Or even in the city, they had this thing called Rap for a Stack.

I'm the only believer, Christian artist, Christian rapper in there, bro.

And I make it to the finals and I clearly sweep them, but he wins.

And I'm in the bathroom at home.

dude was like, "Hey bro, it's because of what you talking about. These people don't know what you,

you know what I'm saying?" So there was mad, like, just a lot of discouragement. But I looked at the

contest and I was like, "You know what? Like, something I'm really great at, let me give it a

shot." And yeah, I entered the contest and man, had Mark shoot the video, I edited it, and I ended up

winning. - Finally. - Finally. My first contest, man. And shout out to Cannon. And so that video

was shared to an A&R at the label I'm signed to.

So he's seen, he was literally transitioning to this label

to start some hip hop stuff and seeing that video

and was like, "This kid's my number one draft pick."

No kidding.

I feel like I have a memory of,

I think it was Troy I was talking to at that time,

but he was saying that, yeah,

'cause it was a word that was looking for to start

and they didn't have anything,

any hip hop artists on their label at all, right?

And so somebody said, "Yeah, they're looking

"and yeah, Steven's like their number one guy right now."

And that was before you were signed.

And I was like, "Oh Lord, please let it be."

'Cause I didn't know anybody else who they're looking at,

but I knew you and I'm rooting for you at the time.

Already, I mean, just for the sake of people listening,

I'm with you, like it's the grace of God

where we're at, where we're at and all that.

But just your pattern of you're taking risks,

you're putting yourself out there.

Obviously you're putting in the time and the hours,

you're pursuing your passion.

you're taking hits when it comes to stepping into contests

that you're losing.

Not even ones you always should be losing,

but you're still walking away feeling,

not just the discouragement of losing,

but the double discouragement of losing

for like dumb reasons at times too.

But you keep going, you keep going, you keep going

because you know this is what I'm made for.

This is what I'm called to.

I gotta keep going and keep pursuing.

And I love that.

So you end up getting signed.

They reach out to you, I'm guessing.

Is that how that works?

Yeah, he did via Twitter, man.

Reached out to me and he was like,

"Yo, man, send me some music that you're working on,"

and sent him a pack.

And he was just like, "Yeah, man, I got this going on."

And I didn't really know the caliber of it

until at that time, a couple other labels

were reaching out as well.

They weren't as big, but they were like friends

who were in the Christian hip hop community.

J-Sun, he reached out, Lamp Mode.

He was like gonna revamp it,

So he was gonna use me as the artist to help revamp.

Okay.

And so I hit up the A&R from Word and I was like,

"Hey, I got these friends who are looking at me too."

And he was like, "All right."

Boom, they flew me in.

Like, literally, like a couple days later,

like flew me to Nashville and showed me around the building,

showed me the team and everything.

And yeah, just like me coming from where I came from,

being biracial and experiencing what I've experienced,

just to see the oldest Christian label,

60 years in the game, want to venture

and dip into my culture, you know what I'm saying?

I was like, okay, I can be a bridge for this,

you know, this place that has been killing it

for the kingdom for 60 years.

And so it was like, that was dope to me.

It was an opportunity because I'd never knew

Christian hip hop existed until I got in a car

and then heard Lecrae on the way to church.

So it's just like, all right, boom,

something new changed my life.

So I was something new to them that, you know,

it's gonna change their business.

Yeah, shout out to them for taking the risk.

Yeah, man.

We gotta press in here and then they know

it's not their spot, but they're like,

hey, we can do something.

Yeah, absolutely.

Did, like you're signed, you've gotta label all that.

Now, did that change the whole experience

as an artist for you or not really?

I mean, is that like, oh man, now I got

all these expectations, now I got all this funding

to come in, now I got all this, I mean,

what's, how's life different?

It was a beautiful change.

I put in my two weeks.

Yeah, you done know.

I put in them two weeks so fast.

Yeah, because it was a blessed situation, man.

Major label situation.

So boom, got to put in my two weeks, quit my job.

And yeah, just like, I don't think, I definitely, I know, I wasn't ready for the industry aspect.

It's literally like, it's the Christian industry.

You know what I mean?

It came at me quick, but yeah, man, it's been a blessing, man.

It's been a really, really, like, I tell people it's a frustrating blessing.

It's frustrating because I had no pops to really guide me or anything, and you know

what I'm saying?

And they're a label who is dominant in the CCM world, and they know what they're doing

in the CCM world, but they don't know really what they're doing in the hip hop world.

So it's like I'm having to like come in and just let my culture bleed in.

So it's frustrating at times, but bruh, like I could say some stories man of how it's a

blessing and just yeah man I'm a legit like full time artist man.

When I go over like my latest album that's coming out, I recorded it in Amsterdam.

Oh wow, that's crazy.

Yeah, it's beautiful.

I've seen the world, things have come full circle,

and yeah, being signed and being in the Christian music

industry is a blessing because I didn't even grow up

on in Christian music and on it, so yeah.

How many projects?

What year are you signed?

I signed in the tail end of 2016.

Okay, and how many projects since 2016?

I've put out three.

Three, okay.

Since, 'cause it was like literally like the end of 2016

And then like 2017 was like my launch,

you know what I'm saying?

And I was on Winter Jam and boom.

So yeah, I've put out three albums since, man.

Wow. - Yeah.

So good.

Okay, so I got some questions for you on the journey.

You get signed and here's,

I wanna go a couple directions with this

and you've actually kind of alluded,

you'll have to figure out

what you wanna say about this, all right?

So I was gonna, one of my questions is this,

when it comes to the journey

of what now as a professional artist,

like this is what you do.

What are some things that would surprise us

about what it takes to do what you do?

People don't, we don't see them behind the scenes.

We're, I'm like, I was, it's funny having this conversation

'cause I was like, this is weird.

I hear Steven in my ears all the time

when I'm lifting weights.

And that's, and so like I had the weight,

I had a couple of dumbbells over my head today

and I'm listening to you.

And I thought, that's all my experiences.

I got no idea what comes.

I mean, I know, oh, he's doing interviews,

he's in the studio, but I mean, stuff that, you know,

there's gotta be things that we don't know

about what it really takes to do what you do.

Man, so I thought about this

and I explained it to my wife beautifully

because a lot of times,

people will see the highlights on Instagram,

you know what I'm saying?

And so a lot of times, I'm gonna use this for example too,

Like my wife, we're at a hotel, I love the hotel.

It's got a beautiful gym, beautiful pool.

So I'm posting.

And so that's all she sees is, oh, he's in LA,

working out and dipping in the pool.

But what people don't see is like,

okay, or even in Amsterdam.

I'm in Amsterdam and it's beautiful

and you see the canals and all this,

but hey, Steven, go in the studio.

Okay, get in the studio.

I'm not by myself.

There's the producer, there's the engineer,

there's the A&R, there's the A&R's friend,

there's Ty Brazile, there's Jayway,

all in a room like this.

Hey, write a song.

Just right here?

Right here, we're chillin'.

Write a song, bro.

Not a song, write a hit song.

Because by the way, millions of people are gonna hear it.

Make it better than "Good Love", by the way.

Make it better than "Even Louder", we're past that.

This is a new album, write.

"Hey, you done writing?

"Are you done?

"Spit it.

"We're all listening.

"Spit it.

"Go record it.

"No, it's okay.

"Rewrite."

Or, "Oh, that's amazing.

"Okay, write the hook now."

Like-

That's a crazy process.

You know what I mean?

Like, bro, like-

Yeah.

It's not built for the regular person.

Like, that's nerve-wracking.

It's like, and your brain's going,

and you know what I mean?

Hopefully you've had a good day, you know what I mean?

Like, what if I woke up and my wife was like,

"Oh, Zy is throwing up, and I gotta go to the studio

"to record, 'cause that's my job.

"Go make a hit, bro, no matter what."

And so, people forget that part of, you know what I mean?

Like, how was Steven's day when he wrote Even Louder?

You know what I mean?

I could've been super depressed, but I have to do it

because this is my job, I mean, and so, even with shows,

like, yeah, some shows, man, is nerve-wracking,

you know what I mean?

And I kinda tie it to boxing.

Like boxers are not normal because no one wants to get punched in the face, but like

every day they're going to get punched in the face.

So psyche, like their psyche is different because they know I'm going to get punched

in the face.

As an artist, like I know I have to, I have to rap how I feel in front of millions of

people, you know what I'm saying, or four millions of people and be good at it.

Be great at it.

You know what I mean?

Dance while you do it.

You know what I mean?

Like it's not an easy task.

Well, and when they're paying for tics, I think about it.

and they gotta come out every episode,

and it's gotta feel like they're happy to be-

especially if they're comedians.

They're happy to be there.

What if you had a bad day,

and you're supposed to be funny now?

I would hate to be funny, and then you gotta-

you're up there, and, you know, at some level,

you're doing ministry, you're talking about

these deep things, and same thing.

Like, what if you just got burned by somebody,

and now you gotta get up there, oh, you know, whatever.

I mean, that's-- - And you always wanna be

that hard-working individual.

So when my A&Rs are in the studio,

It's like, all right, no matter how I'm feeling,

I want to stay here until I write a great song.

I want to stay here till 5, 6 a.m.

to still show, like, yo, Steven's still going hard.

You know what I mean?

So, yeah, man, it's a mission, and you got to be built for it.

And being in front of people, you know, with anxiety nowadays,

you know what I mean?

Like, some people really ain't built for it

because they're socially -

you know, they have social anxiety.

And so, you know, it's definitely -

Yeah, you gotta be built for it, man.

Is it harder, the writing process,

or once the work is in the can,

then you're going into promo mode,

you're shooting videos, you're doing interviews,

you're doing all this, which part's the more demanding?

Or touring, that's another whole aspect of it.

What's the, whether it's creation, promotion,

touring, performing, what's the, for you,

like you go, that's the hardest part?

Man, you know what, and I love this question

because this is a totally good question that is a new answer and the most

demanding part is social media.

Is that right? - You know what I mean?

And it didn't used to be like that, like it's not the shows.

That's easy, it's not the recording, like I love making music,

I can get in a studio and vibe to a good beat.

But bro, people nowadays is social media.

That's the second question that, you know, in the industry they're gonna ask,

like what is it streams? What is it social media following?

And people now, they want to get to know you.

And you know what I'm saying?

You're a pastor, but now it's like you're branching off

into talking more on a podcast.

And just like, that's going to let people in on who you are.

That's more of a demand, something else on your plate.

So yeah, man, social media.

So it's specifically-- sometimes with social media,

people would say, man, I got to be ready because now I'm

getting critiques and people speaking in

from all different angles.

But for you, it's more just staying engaged with people

because they're expecting relationship.

expecting a personal touch and now you got to stay up on all that.

Posting every day.

Yeah.

As an artist, man.

You put great stuff up, man.

Are you doing it all solo right now too, you said?

Absolutely not, man.

Shout out to my...

I finally got a content guy, man.

So and that's what it like, literally, that's what it took.

Like I had a label call and I kind of got upset

because I wanted to talk about the next album

and they wanted to talk about getting my TikTok followers up.

And so like I said, it's a blessing to be in my position.

They were like, "Yo, like, do you need a content guy?

I will hire one for you.

That way, you know, we just, you know,

it's a team thing and boom,

and it does make it a lot easier.

And now I'm posting consistently and yeah, man,

social media, it's an everyday thing.

And thinking about it too, like I woke up the other day

and it's just like thinking about it as a business.

So it's just like, I got a new song out.

How can I get 50 people to listen to my song?

Social media.

Yeah.

Well, let me ask this.

Let's say somebody is, you've got now some history.

been on the road, you've experienced what comes

with having more platform.

And for somebody who, and it doesn't have to be necessarily

in music, it could be, they're just an influencer

on social media, it could be some business thing.

They're starting to get traction,

they're starting to get more visibility.

And with that, without a doubt, comes different kinds

of temptations, different kinds of wrestles,

different kinds of things you're paying attention to,

whether it's stuff in your own heart

or stuff coming from the outside.

Yeah.

And probably some folks I would guess

spoken into your life even

who maybe were further down the road,

but whether it's from your own personal experience

or from people you know,

or stuff they experienced, stuff they spoken to you,

if you were talking to somebody right now today

that's on the front end of seeing their platform expand,

how would you coach them?

If you were their father, how would you father them?

You say, "Here, let me tell you what's coming

"so you can be ready for this,

"so you can prepare your heart."

what would you say what's coming and here's how you prepare?

I would tell him that social media is the matrix.

It's not real! It's not real, man.

I love, I recently seen an

interview with Pitbull and he said that he does not have an Apple phone, he said he has a

Blackberry still.

He was like, "Look at the Apple, you know, it's a bitten apple."

What is it first, how does the Bible start out? You know what I mean?

He just says like he doesn't entrench himself in the social media thing.

And I feel like that's a lot of reason, you know, for anxiety and depression today.

So...

Always, because otherwise, always comparing other people, always looking at the highlights,

looking at the numbers.

How did this, how did that...

Yeah, it's poison.

And we can have a hundred good comments, but that one negative comment just, oh, will throw

us off.

You know what I mean?

I would let them know that use social media for what it is.

Know a good balance of letting people in,

you know what I mean?

And what not to, you know what I'm saying?

Let them in on and just know that it's not real.

Yeah.

Have you had to wrestle with keeping yourself humble

as you get more opportunities, more platform?

Is it like, man, I gotta bring myself back down

No, I hate how humble I am.

It doesn't serve me well sometimes, you know?

Like, unfortunately, but, you know, even with that,

like, I'm learning a balance just because,

and I say it in a song, because that's one comment

that I started hearing a lot.

Sometimes it felt like too much,

like, "Steven, you are so humble."

Like, I go on tours, I'm chilling with the people.

I just, I'm just a chill individual.

I'm just like, "Steven, you're so humble."

I'll sit and talk with somebody.

No, I don't got no plans.

I plan to talk to you.

Like, you know what I'm saying?

And I say it in a song, I say,

they asked me why I'm humble.

I came from the slums.

And like, it's just when you,

it's just something about coming from nothing.

It just makes you humble.

You know what I mean?

And so, yeah, man, sometimes I'm just too humble

and too patient.

And sometimes it doesn't serve me well.

I don't know exactly how that plays out,

but I'll tell you when you stand before Jesus today,

I don't think he's be like, "Oh, Steven."

You were just so humble, man.

You know, I was trying to work on you at that.

So let me switch gears a little bit here.

And I got to ask one question

that's maybe the most obvious question ever.

But on "Tree," you got to do a collab.

And so I was, you got to do multiples,

but I remember I was at my house in the summertime

and all of a sudden I was like, I don't know where,

I don't know if I saw it on social,

if I saw it on, I don't know, I know where it came through.

But I was like, what?

Oh, it says Snoop, it says Steven, what?

And I'm like, and I thought it,

I thought someone was just messing around

or something like, you know, something, whatever.

I saw, I start digging around on my iPad or something.

No, I think this is real.

And I think it's happening.

So I jump on and I like, I think that was the video.

I don't know if the video was out right from the jump,

but the video was out when I heard about it.

So I put it on our Sonos and the house is shaking.

And I'm like, "Christina, Christina,

you gotta come down here."

My wife, there's a little known secret.

And in some place we might get judged by it

for a little bit, but Christina loves herself some Snoop.

Wherever I am, and 'cause Snoop's face is everywhere.

My man co-brands himself with, I mean, it's crazy.

You can't go anywhere.

And so every time I see Snoop's face, like the wine bottle,

he's got that wine bottle, you know,

and I'll take a picture of that.

And then somebody saw Snoop on some kind of snacks,

I don't know what it was, and they'll send her a picture.

And then somebody else brought us over a little,

like a lighter and Snoop's pictures on the lights,

Snoop's everywhere.

And anyway, so I say that to say that I'm like,

Christina, you gotta come down here.

You're not even gonna believe this.

And she was smiling, so I put it on,

and it's going on our sonos.

And so congratulations on that.

'Cause I gotta think that's like a,

I don't know if working with Snoop was a dream explicitly,

but how can it not be a dream at some level

to think, man, I get to work with him.

No, dream come true, bro.

Like, and I tell people this, and this is a true story.

I grew my fro out as a kid

because I seen "Gin and Juice," the video,

and he had the fro, and I'm like,

"Yo, that looks fire, let me grow a fro out."

I had my mom take me to shoe carnival and buy me Chuck Taylor's because that's all I

seen Snoop wear.

I bought my first long sleeve flannel because I seen Snoop wear it in Baby Boy.

Snoop, yeah, he had an impact on my life.

I used to watch Doggy Fizzle Televizzle.

I used to draw a character who had Snoop's hair when he had the braids down.

I used to love that style.

That was dope.

And then now I'm in the same room with him and I'm seeing him.

He likes came with electric scooter, scooted up and was like,

the dog has arrived.

Y'all literally that's the first thing he said to me.

I'm like, oh, this is this is Snoop Dogg right here.

I mean, if I had to dream it up for how he would arrive,

I don't know if I could improve on that.

The dog has arrived.

I think I think it must have been something that you posted.

You said that.

And so I've I've used that line occasionally when I'm walking into places

and people know that I'm just messing around.

Brian has arrived.

I'm gonna start using it now, bro!

So, uh, and it's always great working with him.

-I mean, he's-- -Man, it was-- Okay, so...

Imagine, this is a hip-hop icon.

Everybody knows him. I did a thing on TikTok.

I would just go up to random-- I'm talking about

a 50-year-old white guy. "You know who Snoop Dogg is?"

"Yeah." A 20-year-old Asian woman.

"You know who Snoop Dogg is?" "Yeah."

A kid. "You know who Snoop Dogg is?" "Yeah."

Um, I'm in the same room with him, bro.

He's mad cool. He's chill.

He vibes with the song, he knows his lyrics.

He looks over and he's like,

"Yeah man, great music makes moments like this, nephew."

And then his management was like,

"You guys get one group selfie, everybody on the video,

you guys get one group selfie with him, and then that's it."

Snoop tapped me, he's like,

"Hey nephew, you want a little selfie real quick, man?"

Yeah, boom, caught a couple selfies with just me and Snoop.

Like, he was who he is on TV, he really is like that.

The lingo, the vibe that he gives off.

Just a chill individual and just a sharp,

sharp businessman too.

Like he says, face on everything.

Like they was like, "Hey Snoop, make a drop real quick.

"Steven Malcolm and J-Way, 'Summertime' go."

He's like, "Yeah."

And he knew the lines real quick and he did it.

And I'm like, "Okay, yeah, you can tell

"he's a professional."

And yeah man, and then I watched this 50 year old

shoot a music video with me,

headlined the show.

That means he ain't go on to like 10.

did an hour, probably an hour and a half set, which imagine like I just shot a music video with you

and then his manager gave me all access pass. So I'm standing in the tunnel where they come out

and then next to me is Ice Cube. - This is surreal. - Like bro, I grew up on Friday, like yo Craig is

next to me, um all about the Benjamins, like bro this is NWA, he wrote for so many legends, this is

Ice Cube and he's right next to me. And then I seen, man, who else was there? Warren G.

Regulators. He was there. And then just watched Snoop just perform and I'm just screaming. I just

realized like, man, I know all these lyrics. And it was like a moment. I'm like right there

side stage. And just, yeah, that was one moment in my career where I feel like the man. I can say

that. I'm just sitting there vibing like yo we just shot a video I got a song coming out with Unk.

You know what I mean like with Snoop Dogg and everybody's vibing to it right now. I just shot a music video with Unk.

That moment I did feel like the man. And yeah it was just a great experience, great night.

Yeah and then after headlining the show and performing and then he comes for the after party

and is DJing the after party for another hour.

And so it was inspiration 'cause it was like,

man, I would love to have that kind of grind at 50,

where I'm still headlining arena shows

and doing an after party and just killing it,

bringing home money back to my family

and doing what I love, man, what I'm called to do.

You know what I mean?

Obviously in my way to my people.

But-

Did you get much pushback from,

I mean, that kind of a-- - No, listen.

Yeah, that kind of collab,

I could see where some folks would have some opinion.

And I love talking about this too, specifically with a pastor on a platform because we can say,

you've preached, "Be a light in the darkness," right? And what do you get?

Yeah, hallelujah, amen! Jesus sat with the sinners and was judged and Jesus came back and, you know,

put them in the place and showed, yeah, like, yo, we must sit with the sinners and be a light in

their presence. You say that in a congregation, what are they going to do? Hallelujah, amen,

pastor, right? Until we really go have to do it. Until we really have to go do it. Excuse me.

I gave my life to Christ. I've put out these three Christian projects before being signed,

and then two while being signed, and there's no scandals about me. There's no rumors about me,

no nothing. I'm a husband. I'm a father. I'm this solid Christian individual. You guys,

my brethren and sisters as believers are telling me that y'all don't trust my heart,

I've given what haven't I given to the body that I can say the Lord has called me and has risen me

up to say, "Yo Steve, go be a light in the dark. Hallelujah, yeah. Go sit with the sinners.

Hallelujah, yeah. Go do it then." And that's what I did. I'm here on business for the kingdom.

Mission Complete, the video, I got my family in it.

It's beautiful, it's like no compromising whatsoever, bro.

And I lost shows.

Is that right?

I lost shows, bro.

There was like three of them.

One was a college and two were churches.

And it was like, you know, coincidentally, you know,

days after I posted the video.

I have a son who eats food and needs diapers.

I have a wife who has to eat dinner too and wants a nice roof over her head and you know.

So my brothers and sisters who would clap and say hallelujah to what's in the text about us

doing what I did, you guys are gonna say nah without even at least hitting me up and asking

me yo what's up and that's appropriate too as a believer to check me. Cool come on.

Sure.

Holler at me, ask me why I did it.

But don't X me out not knowing my heart.

Did you go in recognizing,

hey, there's probably gonna be a cost.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing.

You gotta, I mean, in that kind of a situation,

it's like, there's reasons you could make an argument.

I mean, it's fair to say, you can make an argument,

like, is this the wisest move?

100%.

We all know kind of Snoop's door.

What does the light have to do with the dark?

So there's a tension there.

Yeah, there is text backing that.

Yeah, so ultimately though, you discern,

hey, but there's also an argument to collab with them.

But you go into it saying,

hey, this is what I feel like I'm supposed to do,

and I know there might be some fallout on this,

but it sounds like there's probably more

than what you realized or expected.

But more good, like a lot more good,

you know what I'm saying, has come out of it.

Yeah, it's amazing, man.

And even like, I mean, the number one thing,

'cause I'm a dad now, it's just like,

bro, like my son's gonna love hip hop.

Like as a father, like my son can say,

yo, my dad worked with Snoop Dogg.

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

That's cool, man.

I think about sometimes when it comes to

cultural goods that are out there,

whether it be movies or artists, whatever.

And sometimes people get a little bit anxious

about those things if they're from other places.

But it's interesting, in the New Testament,

I mean, the Apostle Paul quotes from non-Christian texts

in the Bible.

I mean, he quotes from other philosophers and thinkers,

and because he quotes from them,

that's how we know about them in the text.

But for him to quote them meant he read them,

and they're not thinkers that were like all lining up

with Scripture, and yet he felt like there were some things

that he could pull from them,

and obviously he chose to kind of be reading them

place, and now we got them in the Bible because there was some wisdom there. So I just think,

I guess sometimes I feel like that. I'll make a movie reference, for example, in a sermon,

and I'll give some feedback. And I get that, I get that, because, you know, again, I've had,

I mean, yeah, I've made some references to movies that I wouldn't necessarily hold up as

the best quality movie ever.

Yeah.

But there was something about it that was redemptive.

Yeah.

And I'm not gonna sit here and sign on to all of it.

In the same way, I don't think the apostle Paul

would have signed on to everything that was in the book

that he quoted from.

Right.

But I'm bringing it in.

And so sometimes I gotta walk with folks

when they feel like that was out of line.

Even like Wang, I looked in and I weighed

and I asked myself, okay, what's better or worse?

You know, some of my little, you know what I'm saying, loving fan base saying, "Oh, you

know, we're not going to support him no more because he's doing this."

Or the possibility of Snoop sharing the record and millions of people being exposed to Stephen

Malcolm and saying, "Who is this kid?"

And then them, millions of people being exposed to Jesus.

Sorry, I'll take that route, man.

I'll take that route because that's the mission.

Like, "Yo, Snoop," you know what I'm saying?

Boom.

"Who's Stephen Malcolm?

Oh, yeah, he's, oh, oh, oh.

Praise God.

Yeah, that's good.

Love it.

So here's a question I wanted,

so my favorite song on "Tree" is "Believe in Me."

Turn up, man.

Okay, and the reason why, I mean, it's so honest,

obviously, you're honest no matter what,

but that journey, that battle that I think

a lot of people face to say, can I believe in me?

Are you gonna believe in me?

Man, it's real.

And I think when it comes to people living into everything

that they're made to live into,

they've got to figure out a way

to believe in what God put in them.

So when you think of that song in particular,

or just that whole idea of believing in yourself,

for you, did that come easily?

Did it come hard?

Was it because somebody,

did you have some voices that were believing in you?

Did you feel like, man,

I got to just do this between me and God?

What was that journey of believing in yourself like?

Yeah, I think it started from just seeing

my family struggle and not wanting to go through

that struggle no more and actually wanna have food

in the cupboards and for my family to not have to struggle.

So I remember at a young age reading,

going to the library in like fifth grade

and reading biographies.

Like that's the all I'd read is just biographies.

And I'd be like, okay, what do they do to be successful?

And so yeah, I would just, yeah man, just emulate that man.

And just put my head down and go, bro.

So you had a strong sense from really being a child,

you had a strong sense of I got some goals

and I believe in myself and I wanna get after it.

Is there anybody along the way in the journey

that you point to and you go, man, they believed in me

and it was an inflection point in my life.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good question too, man.

You're asking some good stuff, bro. You're tapping in right now.

I'm trying.

That's where people are at. That's why I'm asking these questions because we need those people.

Yeah. So who comes to mind when you think of believing in you?

Man, the first person was Julius Smith. Yeah. Shout out to Julius Smith, man.

I used to go to the Visser family YMCA in Granville for teen nights every Friday.

But I'd be at the YMCA all the time. But specifically this guy,

I think he was probably like mid-20s. And he was just really good at basketball.

And I'd hoop with them all the time.

But my thing, I'd go upstairs and dance with girls,

and I'd just be into the teen night thing.

And one night he pulled me aside and was like,

"Hey, Steve, man, you wanna be a hooper

or you wanna be a ladies man?"

And it was the first time somebody checked me like that.

"Hold on. Okay, I'm trying to make it to the NBA."

He's like, "Well, all right, well, you're spending

way too much time upstairs, and I don't see you

down here in the gym, hooping."

And one night, it was an all-nighter.

Remember they used to have all-nighters from time to time?

I hooped with this dude all night.

He just had me doing G's, like, "Yo, we gonna have you doing jump shots all night."

He's like, "Don't go upstairs.

You're gonna be down here all night."

And yeah, I was like, "Bet."

And we just were shooting for hours.

And by the morning time, my jump shot was just pure.

I'm like, "Yo."

And just, yeah, it was the first time.

Somebody was like, yo, all right, you're good at this.

This is what happens when you dedicate some time and work real quick.

>> So he didn't just challenge you on basketball or girls, but he spoke in.

I mean, did you sense even in the challenge or

did he explicitly say, I see something in you when it came to basketball?

>> No, it was more the challenge.

I already knew he's saying cuz we was always at the wild hoop and

everybody knew us.

But he was like, yo, this is what you're gonna do real quick.

I was like, "Bit, all right, let's do it."

And yeah, man.

-Who else comes to mind?

-So, and then also from that story -

or from that song, "Believe in Me,"

it actually came from a guidance counselor in high school

my junior year at Wyoming Park.

My grades were not the best.

Literally graduated with, like, a 1.2, a 1.3.

But I was playing ball, and my life was the NBA.

Like, I wanted to make it to the league, man.

I had no plan B. The guidance counselor pulls me in his office and he's like, "Steven, I'm

gonna be honest with you, man. Your grades ain't there." And this is the first time I

heard this. He said, "Less than 0.1% of student athletes make it professional. So you should

think about other stuff." And I'm like, bro, I'm like 17, dog. You can't say this to me

right now, bro. Like I'm still not even in my prime in my life and you're telling me

I can't do it that that was just foreign to me is somebody coming in telling me that I can't do something

It's just like dog nah, bro

Like anything I do where you gonna have to believe that I'm gonna excel in it

And so yeah, I thought about that situation literally that's what made me right believe in me cuz yeah this I

Guess yeah, I've just always been that type where I

If I want to be a dope skier

Tomorrow, I'm gonna be a dope skier. You know, I mean, I'm gonna put in a work tonight

Right, so it's funny because, you know,

some might say, "Well, oh, so good, he spoke truth."

And like, "Yeah, he might've rained on some of your dreams

and all that, but he also spoke something into Steven

to say you dream."

But in that case, what you needed was him to believe

in the direction you were headed.

And so it wasn't what you needed in that moment

for him to kind of give you the dose of reality.

Did anybody musically speaking,

Was there anybody that came along once you started pursuing,

like, "I'm going somewhere with this," that they said,

I mean, maybe you just intuitively said,

"Since I got this in me,"

but did anybody come alongside and say, "No, you got this"?

Yeah, with the music,

when I was doing it with my crew, with Exclusive,

it was a thing of, I was one of the youngest.

It was me and my younger cousin.

We were like the kids.

But every verse that I had,

everybody would just compliment it.

Like truth versus fire.

And then when I started leading worship,

LaDawn, Troy's wife,

she was always so quiet and never really spoke

and was just always in the background.

But like one worship session she came

and she was like, "Yo, you in your element, man.

"You in your element."

And that was like real affirmation

'cause she's just, yeah man, she be predicting things.

Man, it's crazy, man. She got one of them spirits.

And then I put out like a Cypher video.

Edge Cypher is still on YouTube.

It was my first, like, this is my coming out video.

I'm gonna do all kinds of searching

after this conversation.

Put in Edge Cypher 1.0.

And I put that together.

I was like, yo, homies from the church,

hey, let's get together.

Let's do this Cypher.

And we had a video guy, so I was like, yo, film us.

I picked a B and I had everybody write.

And man, I remember being at Nordstrom, picking up shoes,

just rapping my verse, and I killed it.

And I seen all the comments on YouTube,

and all the comments were like,

"Yo, that first guy, that first guy, man, he's cold."

And so I'm like, I never got that in,

well, I got it in basketball,

but I guess with the rapping, it was just,

I don't know, it was just more solid.

Yeah, so I was like, yeah, okay, this is something special.

It's such a powerful thing

when people do see something in somebody else

to give some kind of verbalization to it,

because you just don't know even like a sentence

what it'll do.

I remember the first time,

it wasn't a public speaking thing.

I did a speech at school actually,

and I think it was about recycling or something.

And I walked in and I put all this,

I took a trash can ahead of time,

and I put all this trash in it,

all this recycling and I had stats to back up

how much stuff we throw away that could be recycled.

That was the thing.

And I walk in to this room and everybody's looking at me

and I reached this big trash can over my head.

And I was like, you guys know how much of this

could be recycled and put to other use?

And I turned it upside down and it just all comes out

and they're like, what?

I mean, I've never seen somebody walk in

and turn a trash can upside down in front of the whole class.

And then I unpacked it and that speech teacher

came up to me afterwards and she said,

"Hey, you need to know,

"I don't see people that talk like that very often.

"You need to pay attention to that."

And here I am, almost Snoop's age, 49 this month.

And I'm, you know, so I'm a teenage kid then.

I don't know if I was 17, maybe 16.

I still remember her saying that, you know.

Special.

Yeah, you just remember those comments

And it's a good word for people out there

who are, you see something in somebody

and don't just let it, don't let it pass.

You know, say something, make some space,

even if it's just a minute.

So. - Thanks.

You've got a great project coming up.

I've heard 40. - Yes I do.

I've heard 40. - Woo!

And it's called Boats. - Yeah.

What's up with the name?

So it's an acronym. - Okay.

For based on a truth story.

Oh, okay. - Yeah.

Like I said, growing up, you know,

a truth come to the studio.

And now my son, his name is Zaire Truth Malcolm,

and I serve the ultimate truth.

And so boats, you know what I mean?

And then just the concept of, you know,

I am a fisher of man, you know what I mean?

And challenging people to, you know,

step out of that boat, you know?

And the only way we stepping out is on faith.

You know what I mean? - Yeah, that's good.

So it just, it all makes sense, man.

That's good.

Is it, is this, is it particularly autobiographical,

the one you're talking about based on true story?

I mean, is it like a truth story?

Is it, I mean, are you weaving in your story

in any intentional way or is it just,

yeah, is there a broader narrative to the whole project?

There is, so with this one, I'm about to get deep.

So it's the story of the redeemed hero

who has sacrificed time and as creatives,

you know, like me, I dedicated myself so much to basketball,

I would not go to parties.

So that means I had a lack of friends, you know what I mean?

All I would hang out was my boy Kevin and we'd go hoop.

And then now with music, it's family.

Like I'm always traveling, you know.

When I got signed, literally, I was away for four months.

And my wife, she wasn't my wife at the time,

but she was just my girlfriend.

But imagine being in a relationship,

and then, oh, I'm about to dip out for four months.

You know what I mean?

Sometimes I'd come back and it'd just be weird.

And then with my family, my mom and my sister and all that,

just building my career, I'm gone a lot, I'm busy.

And so you hear just a story, my story,

woven through this redeemed hero named Truth,

and how the sacrifice of time has impacted his life.

And now he's found himself woken up on this oasis

that is ran by the redeemed and built by the chosen.

Wow, sounds amazing.

Boom!

Come on.

And it drops, you said February 23rd?

February 23rd.

Yeah, okay.

Yes, yes, man.

And I released it at Cardio.

Man, I'm a gym head.

I wanted to motivate people and drop it early

'cause when I dropped it in and around the areas

when everybody's off the train

January, everybody's gonna be back on that train.

So, nah, I'll big it up again.

And then 40, man, I was in the studio and just heard a group,

not even gonna name drop,

but just heard of a group that just everybody loves

and somebody like, oh, you know,

they have a mole in their camp.

There's about to be a Netflix doc coming out

in a couple of years on this.

All right, man, there was just a Netflix documentary

on, you know, the Liberty University

And then the, what's the other one, man?

The Hillsong one.

The Hillsong joint, the Robbie Zachariah stuff

that came out, you know, we can go on

about the Catholic church, you know what I mean?

Stuff like that, just the reputation.

And so it's like, all right, believer,

when your legacy is over,

will there be a Netflix documentary on you?

Can somebody compile evidence of, yo,

they weren't who they said they were, you know what I mean?

And like I made a post saying, like, in today's society,

It's like when scandals come out, it's like their teachings are diminished and it's just

like, no, like still, you know, the teachings was from something that's infinite and way

beyond the center themselves.

But man, just so many, not so many, but it's just tragic sometimes when we have these people

or believers that we put on these pedestals and then we just end up seeing that they're

like, you know, mad, flawed.

So I think about the story of Jesus, you know, and before he started his ministry.

It's funny, when I'm talking to a pastor about scripture, I feel weird.

You already know what I'm about to say.

But just yeah, that 40 days and 40 nights, man, and he did that intentionally, like right

before starting the ministry, and it's just like, all right, he was tempted.

What did he apply while being tempted?

He just quoted scripture.

And then what was he doing?

He was fasting.

fasting led to discipline and then he got sourced from the word of God.

So it's just like, man, if we can apply those two things in life,

cuz we're always going through the desert, period.

You know what I'm saying?

It's just life as a believer.

But just challenging believers specifically like, yo,

while we're going through these 40 days and 40 nights, you know what I'm saying?

Stand strong, look to your brethren because the harvest is plenty, but

are few where they sliding off, you know what I'm saying?

A lot of these, so just armor up, man.

Armor back up, man.

I can't wait to listen to it.

And it really is, I mean, when I'm working out,

so for me, working out is like a spiritual thing.

It's not just, oh, I'm trying to stay in shape or whatever.

And what I put into my ears when I'm working out has,

I mean, there's something about, for me,

the physicality of working out while I've got music on,

sometimes it's worship music, sometimes it's something else.

And yeah, I just, I feel like I meet with God

in a unique way, and I'm grateful for the ways

that your voice has spoken into my life, my heart,

and in ways you don't even know,

sitting in my gym and doing my thing.

And I'm grateful for your example, for your faithfulness.

I think it's amazing to watch you say,

"As a man, I wanna be a certain kind of husband.

"I wanna be a certain kind of dad."

That's the biggest, I know you know this,

that's the biggest legacy you're gonna leave.

The music is all important, it's all beautiful.

I couldn't be more excited.

But for you to say, I want my bride to know

she's got a great husband, not a perfect husband,

but a great husband, and the father that you are

and will be, it's amazing, it's amazing.

And in our culture, I mean, speaking of the desert

of our culture, when we see somebody like you

and the kind of man I aspire to be,

And it gives people hope, like, look, that's what God can do with the human life.

And he can tell a new story, he can break off some chains, and he can take a family

of mine and alter it in some new ways.

So I'm grateful for you.

I'm grateful that music's doing well.

I was grateful watching you at the Dove Awards, and they eventually stood up.

They eventually stood up.

All right, yeah, right.

Had to direct them.

Yeah, so keep going, man.

Keep going in faith and we'll keep celebrating your music,

getting the word out.

And I look forward to talking again soon, all right?

Yeah, bro, appreciate it, man.

Thanks for being on the show.

Wow, what a great conversation

with my friend, Stephen Malcolm.

I'm so glad he could come on the show today

and share his journey.

And it's interesting to me,

in the midst of him talking about a tough childhood,

talking about persevering through obstacles

and challenges in his life,

what I think is so good is he knows

without a shadow of a doubt,

that it is God's work in his life

that has led him to be where he is today.

And what a great word that was for all of us.

Listen, if this conversation was encouraging to you,

could I ask you a favor?

Could you rate our podcast,

share it with other people, let them know,

maybe make some comments on it even,

letting us know what you appreciated

about this conversation.

That'd be a huge help.

This has been a production of Engedi Church,

and we've got more incredible content,

incredible guests coming your way.

And so until next time, please know you were made to advance.