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Speaker 1
I have had it up to here with autism misconceptions. Today we are going to be going through the top ten and we are going to be doing some myth busting.

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Speaker 2
Welcome to late bloomers where we are busting myths eventually. See what I've done there?

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Speaker 1
I loved it bought you by our amazing sponsor, Loop earplugs. Are you ready to bust some myths right now?

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Speaker 2
Ready? Got my bust in head on.

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Speaker 1
So this is like the top ten autism myths. So we're going to go through, like, one at a time.

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Speaker 2
And I don't know what you're going to say. No. You're right. Fine.

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Speaker 1
And some of them maybe giggle. You'll see why.

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Speaker 2
So some of these myths I might not actually bust. I might be like, yeah, that tracks.

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Speaker 1
I think I want you to bust every myth. If it tracks, it will be an interesting conversation. Right? The reason we're doing this. You were diagnosed autistic last year.

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Speaker 2
Yep.

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Speaker 1
See, your eldest, my older step kids was diagnosed when they were 11.

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Speaker 2
Yeah. And 11 years ago. That is.

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Speaker 1
Well, yeah, 11 years ago, 11 years old. Got that bit of synchronicity. And yeah, we're just going to bring a bit of awareness or anti awareness to what people get wrong. You ready for number one?

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Speaker 2
I'm ready.

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Speaker 1
All autistic people are good at maths, coding or science.

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Speaker 2
Well this is interesting because I, I actually am really good at maths but not coding or science. And also if I look at sea, they're brilliant at a lot of things. Maths is not.

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Speaker 1
They are a bit of a coder at school. I feel like there's a kind of I don't want to say it, but I'm absolutely going to. There is like a bit of a male, non female and female stereotypes. That happens because some of the autistic characters we've seen on TV, Rain Man. For those old enough to remember Sheldon Cooper.

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Speaker 2
Legend.

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Speaker 1
Even sort of in the modern day atmosphere. Elon Musk and people like that. There is a, I don't know.

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Speaker 2
Representation problem.

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Speaker 1
There's a representation problem.

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Speaker 2
Yeah. Okay.

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Speaker 1
Because actually a lot of autistic women, some will be great at maths or coding and science, but there'll be other areas of special interest and skill. And not everyone has to have a special interest or a skill.

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Speaker 2
I think, regardless of gender. I don't think that that myth is true because it will depend on what you're passionate about. Mine. So, you know, I was a I was running around as an eight year old saying I wanted to be an accountant when I grew up. Who the hell says that?

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Speaker 1
So you're not a very good person to bust the myth that autistic people aren't good at maths? Because you are. Yes, but we absolutely understand and know that that is not every autistic person. And what a perfect time to say. If you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. It is a big spectrum.

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Speaker 2
Yeah.

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Speaker 1
Okay. I don't know how well we're doing on the myth.

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Speaker 2
But I think, yeah.

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Speaker 1
Number two, autistic people lack empathy and emotions.

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Speaker 2
Oh, this is rubbish. So I'll obviously answer from me. Right. And hopefully that's enough of a of a bust of the myth. I understand why people would say this. So I'm not like completely hating this myth, but it's the fact of the matter is, is I feel emotions very deeply actually. What I have a problem with is expressing it.

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Speaker 2
So you don't always see it on my face or in my tone, but it's it's there.

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Speaker 1
So can you give me an example of a strong emotion being inside but not seen?

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Speaker 2
So overwhelm, happiness, sadness. Like I you probably be able to remember a few occasions where I'm like, I'm really happy about this. And you didn't know.

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Speaker 1
Yeah, that's that's sage. Until you used your words. There were no visual clues in body language, facial expression, tone of voice.

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Speaker 2
Especially when you compare it to you, who is a very open book. When it comes to emotions, you can visibly see whether you're feeling sad or happy, whereas I.

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Speaker 1
But when you say you are feeling the emotion, how do you know that? How do you know that we would be experiencing happiness in the same way? And the only difference is you're not showing it on your face or tone of voice.

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Speaker 2
That's a deep question. Like, that's like, because I know what happiness feels like. It's like, oh, I'm happy. I'm really excited. I've got like feelings of, like joy inside me. Like, I don't know how to answer that question. Like.

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Speaker 1
How do an emotion is purely internal?

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Speaker 2
Yeah.

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Speaker 1
Wow.

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Speaker 2
Do you like, if I were to ask you the same question, how do you feel happiness then?

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Speaker 1
Smiling? Lightness, joy, sort of energy could even be like happy tears. Like, it's very embodied. It's very physical. The same as fear. Sadness. For me, it's so linked to the physical feeling and look of it.

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Speaker 2
Right? So mine. Yeah. Mine's all internal.

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Speaker 1
Is it like a thought or do you feel it somewhere? Like if you were really happy.

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Speaker 2
No, I feel it like, you know, like a good example would be like butterflies in the tummy of excitement. Like I would feel that.

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Speaker 1
Okay.

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Speaker 2
So that's probably the, the, the easiest way I can.

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Speaker 1
Yeah I love that. Okay. Number three autistic people can't make eye contact. And if you can you aren't autistic.

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Speaker 2
Well this one's interesting because some of it is partly true. But it's not true. But I guess by being partly true means it's not true. And I can make eye contact, but it depends whether I'm the one speaking or the one being spoken to. I'll typically gaze away from somebody when I'm the one who's talking, because otherwise it will distract me.

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Speaker 2
And it also depends on what we're talking about. If I'm really interested in what we're talking about, you're far more likely to get eye contact with me because I'm interested. But, you know, and it can be deemed as a little bit rude sometimes. If I'm not interested in the conversation, I will find it really difficult to maintain any eye contact because I'm bored of the conversation.

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Speaker 1
I also feel like there'll be some people, maybe women, who are really high masking who have like, trained that skill. Yeah, that doesn't mean that they're not autistic. They'll also be people that cannot tolerate eye contact at all. Yeah. So I think again, it's just highlighting that it is a spectrum to live a lot of different experiences.

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Speaker 2
Well on that point as well, you know, talking about masking eye contact specifically is really linked. Often let's say sales. They'll say a good sales person will maintain eye contact so that there's a, there's a like a worth attached to how good you are. So which is ridiculous isn't it? Like you're a better person if you can make eye contact.

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Speaker 2
What are you talking about?

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Speaker 1
So true. So, yeah, if people are able to mask, have kind of forced themselves to do it. Okay. Number four interesting myth. Autistic people are rude.

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Speaker 2
That's interesting. That's really interesting because I what I can tell you unequivocally is that I don't mean to be rude, but I can sometimes see how it could be perceived as rudeness. But does that make it not rude?

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Speaker 1
So difficult to by standard neurotypical societal rules, some autistic behavior might land as rude even though it is not rude.

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Speaker 2
Like direct communication. As an.

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Speaker 1
Example, I think direct and honest is a much better way to describe it. The strange thing about neurotypical society is there's this unwritten agreement that you're meant to lie a lot of the time.

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Speaker 2
Yeah, that's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1
Which is crazy, but out of kind of politeness, not wanting to rock the boat. Social situations, you're sort of meant to know when you should lie or shouldn't lie, but you also have to believe that being honest is really good and lying is bad, so those things don't go together. I actually have completely changed my mind, and I actually find your way of being and says blunt, direct, truthful, way better because you always know you stand.

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Speaker 1
Maybe you'll be caught off guard like, oh, did you like the Christmas present I bought? You know. All right. It didn't fit. Do you know what? Amazing. Let's go and change it. I'd way rather that than the sort of, like, polite lie that we've all been trained to tell.

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Speaker 2
So the way I can summarize this is that I am right, and society's expectations are wrong. Because how could you say honesty is a bad thing? Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1
I know, but let me bring a slightly more nuanced example. I've put on some weight because I have fallen off my low carb diet and I'm binging on chocolate and I'm premenstrual and I put some clothes on and they're not fitting that well. And I come in and I say, Bobby, do you think I look okay?

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Speaker 1
There's like a white lie. I said, oh yeah, you look great. Like out of confidence building.

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Speaker 2
Right? But I would say you look great, Bobby, because I do think you look great and I love you. If you were to say to me, do you think I've put on weight, I would say yes. Yes, I do believe you've put on weight because, like, do you know.

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Speaker 1
Yeah. It's very factual based. Yeah. That's that makes sense. But there's obviously some situations in society where you wouldn't want to be so direct.

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Speaker 2
I've got a good example of this. Right. So say so. So there's a difference between maybe answering a question honestly, which I believe I always would do more volunteering. Hurtful truth. I'm not sure that that's not necessary. And I don't do that. So for if if you would whatever say you were trying to lose weight or trying to eat healthy because you going on stage, whatever, blah blah blah blah blah, and you would put on if I like, came in and just launched into, oh, you look like you've put on a bit of weight.

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Speaker 2
Oh, that mean that, that's, that's an example where honesty is mean.

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Speaker 1
Yes. So don't ask an autistic person for their opinion if you're not ready to hear.

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Speaker 2
If you know. Yeah.

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Speaker 1
Fact it wouldn't even be mean. But it does bring up interesting situations. And then what about if you bought a young person into that dilemma? Like you would definitely be less direct if something could hurt Lily someone's young than if you were maybe talking to adults. So again, it's very nuanced. Yeah, but no, they're not rude, but they can be direct.

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Speaker 2
Yeah. Big time.

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Speaker 1
Okay. Are you ready for number five.

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Speaker 2
I am ready.

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Speaker 1
Autistic people don't understand humor and sarcasm.

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Speaker 2
So I. I love humor and I do understand sarcasm. So. So I understand why people would say it. Because autistic people are literal thinkers and I am a literal thinker. But I also do understand when somebody is being sarcastic, like I just I just do.

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Speaker 1
And seer does as well.

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Speaker 2
Me and Sarah both really sarcastic.

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Speaker 1
Yeah. In in your own way. And I imagine if you looked at some of the top comedians in the world, imagine some of them may even be autistic. I think that they are. So there's definitely no like one line through, which is, what is it? People don't understand sarcasm. However, there is something very real about literal thinking, and some people may struggle with sarcasm.

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Speaker 2
Well, I'll tell you where I would struggle with sarcasm would be if somebody text me sarcasm like written word, I think I would struggle with more and understanding the tone of that. But I think that maybe is everyone.

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Speaker 1
You know what though? I've just remembered this. You really often ask me if I'm being sarcastic when I'm not. So as an example, you'd be talking about a special interest. At the moment it's the lawn and gardening. So you would be like, oh, I'm researching my lawn. And then I'd be like, oh, wow, that's amazing. And I mean that.

00:14:08:08 - 00:14:13:12
Speaker 1
And you'll be like, are you being sarcastic? You sometimes read my.

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Speaker 2
Well, I sometimes don't believe the energy and enthusiasm that you're displaying. Yeah, can be real about the topic that we're talking about.

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Speaker 1
Then that's because I love that you love it. I don't love the lawn, but I'm so happy that you love it.

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Speaker 2
You don't love the lawn?

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Speaker 1
Not in the way that you. I like the lawn. I'm so happy that you're working on the lawn. But no, I'm not, like, in love with the lawn in the same way.

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Speaker 2
Fine.

00:14:42:00 - 00:14:47:21
Speaker 1
But that's funny, isn't it? You'll sometimes read sarcasm where it isn't there, so it's like working the other way.

00:14:47:22 - 00:14:50:09
Speaker 2
Maybe. Interesting.

00:14:50:11 - 00:15:03:09
Speaker 1
I recently had it with I've released a song. Was it sarcastic? It was a political satire song. And I thought. I thought it was really obvious.

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Speaker 2
Well, satire and sarcasm are very close, aren't they?

00:15:06:14 - 00:15:32:00
Speaker 1
They are. They are sort of political. Satire is its own kind of subgenre. And it was me almost laughing at people that have ADHD and other things. It was actually like built from hate comments we've received online, and loads of people within my fan base thought I was being serious. And we're like, you've changed. We don't trust you.

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Speaker 1
How could you say ADHD isn't real? I'm like, oh my God, it's satire. And actually I had a real like I opener because a lot of people were like, you have a neurodivergent fanbase. Neurodivergent people don't understand sarcasm or satire. Obviously that's not true. Either it is a spectrum. Some do, some don't. But like.

00:15:53:02 - 00:15:54:10
Speaker 2
Partially true, then.

00:15:54:11 - 00:16:04:15
Speaker 1
Partially true. Honestly, I think so in nuance and situational. And it's not okay to, I guess, judge what other people can and can't pick up.

00:16:04:16 - 00:16:21:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. But I think, you know, in the spirit of myth busting, what this is demonstrating is that these myths are like all autistic people are like this. But like you said at the beginning of the episode, if you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. So, you know.

00:16:21:18 - 00:16:33:14
Speaker 1
So this is effectively what we're myth busting is saying. All autistic people are like this. Yeah, it is a spectrum for some at some times. Some of this may be true, for some others it might not.

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Speaker 2
Well, it's same with ADHD that hyperactive versus.

00:16:38:02 - 00:16:38:18
Speaker 1
Inattentive.

00:16:38:21 - 00:16:42:20
Speaker 2
Attentive like very very different. But you've both got ADHD.

00:16:42:22 - 00:17:04:16
Speaker 1
So true. Some people are always anxiously early. Some people are always late. But you're feeding off the same thing right? Before I get on to the next myths to bust a very quick word from our wonderful sponsor. We are so happy here at Late Bloomers to be sponsored by one of our favorite brands out there, which is the amazing Loop earplugs.

00:17:04:16 - 00:17:31:02
Speaker 1
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00:17:31:04 - 00:17:41:02
Speaker 1
Go to our Social Media biographies and click the link there for 20% off loop earplugs. Okay, jumping back into number six. Are you ready?

00:17:41:08 - 00:17:42:16
Speaker 2
I'm. Yeah.

00:17:42:18 - 00:17:48:17
Speaker 1
Autistic people are anti-social.

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Speaker 2
Right. Well, so this is interesting.

00:17:52:00 - 00:17:59:00
Speaker 1
Sorry. Can I just. What t shirt are you hearing?

00:17:59:01 - 00:18:08:19
Speaker 1
For any of our audio listeners? Rich is wearing a T-shirt with the word antisocial written across it.

00:18:08:20 - 00:18:15:22
Speaker 2
So you're not helping me bust this myth right now? Babe, to be honest, I didn't even know I was wearing that. You bought it for me.

00:18:15:23 - 00:18:18:06
Speaker 1
I know.

00:18:18:07 - 00:18:49:21
Speaker 2
So I again, I can see why I would be deemed to be antisocial because I don't really like going to parties. I don't really like meeting new people. Most of the frustrations and problems in my life are people. But. But there are a few people that I love being social with, so I despise it. Depends what you mean by like, I would love our close friends around here for a barbecue.

00:18:49:22 - 00:19:02:16
Speaker 2
That in my mind is social. Would I like a group of strangers around here? No. Does that mean I'm antisocial or not?

00:19:02:18 - 00:19:15:16
Speaker 1
I see you as both. I think that you can be antisocial and you can be really social. I think you like very small, intentional gatherings.

00:19:15:17 - 00:19:16:18
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:19:16:20 - 00:19:32:13
Speaker 1
So if there's, like, if you play golf with Matt, you love it. You socialize with Matt. If you see your brother Andy for dinner, you will talk to Andy. But the minute the group gets bigger and there's not a defined start and end time like the start and end of a dinner, the start and end of a golf game.

00:19:32:14 - 00:19:40:14
Speaker 2
Well, my stag do though there were six of us, which is probably quite short. Like not loads of people for a stag do, but like that's fairly social.

00:19:40:15 - 00:20:13:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. And your dad and your brother. Yeah. And you really enjoyed that. But kind of that standard socializing, big barbecues, going out gigs, talking to people, you get super uncomfortable. So I guess it depends on like the type of socializing. Yeah, I know with Cyr, they love being with small groups and having amazing deep convos and going to the pub, but they do not like big groups at all and get super overwhelmed.

00:20:13:04 - 00:20:23:09
Speaker 2
But I'm thinking about Beth who works in our team. She's autistic and she loves being around loads of people all the time. That's her whole job.

00:20:23:10 - 00:20:37:09
Speaker 1
She's always on tour. Yeah, yeah. Again, it's nuanced. It makes me giggle that you're wearing an anti-social t shirt with moments of myth busting. I'm going to get you a life and soul of the party t shirt.

00:20:37:10 - 00:20:39:10
Speaker 2
No, don't do that.

00:20:39:12 - 00:20:41:05
Speaker 1
Life and soul of the living room.

00:20:41:06 - 00:20:43:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's a better one.

00:20:43:11 - 00:20:51:21
Speaker 1
Okay, number seven, autistic people can't hold down a job. And if you've had a long term job, you can't be autistic.

00:20:51:23 - 00:21:15:18
Speaker 2
Well, I was in a job for 20 years. I hated it, but, you know, I would say the opposite. Is that, like you, you get so good at masking and routine jobs can be really good for autistic people because it's. I have to wake up at this time every day. I need to do this every day. I guess it's the right job is really important now, I didn't.

00:21:15:19 - 00:21:29:01
Speaker 2
I'm not saying that I had the right job if I was in a creative job, like, and I was in charge of all the creativity, I would struggle. Whereas in our relationship, you pick up that baton.

00:21:29:03 - 00:22:03:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. But you you stayed at work for 20 years and there was a lot of safety and security in the routine. And actually there are a lot of autistic people that have jobs and do incredible things. In the same token, there will be some autistic people that are higher support needs that might not. And that's okay too. Yeah, it the sort of how big the autism spectrum is, is something we're still learning about and understanding.

00:22:03:21 - 00:22:20:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, definitely. And it's so vastly different pretty much for every single like I could have CIS at here or Beth sat here or Ben Branson sat here, every one of these answers would be different. Yeah, we know it's not true for everyone.

00:22:20:06 - 00:22:20:21
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:22:21:02 - 00:22:25:09
Speaker 1
And I just think there's really something important in that.

00:22:25:10 - 00:22:26:23
Speaker 2
I agree. Yeah.

00:22:27:00 - 00:22:49:01
Speaker 1
I actually think when you had a job don't know whether you agree with this or not, but you found it easier to kind of it's almost like you habits that you woke up, you did your teeth, you showered, you were maybe more of what and adult is meant to be or whatever than you are now. You struggle more now because there's less routine.

00:22:49:02 - 00:23:05:23
Speaker 2
Completely agree. And it's not just the routines in the morning like shower and teeth and stuff. It will be the defined moment of work ends and life starts that I used to find a lot easier than I do. Even today. There's of just sort of blurs into one.

00:23:05:23 - 00:23:16:15
Speaker 1
Working for yourself just bleeds into one. Okay, number eight autism can always be spotted in childhood.

00:23:16:17 - 00:23:18:22
Speaker 2
Well, that's nonsense, isn't it?

00:23:19:02 - 00:23:23:04
Speaker 1
So that's myth busting. That's what we're looking for.

00:23:23:05 - 00:23:36:13
Speaker 2
That's I mean, I can talk about me. Mine wasn't. I was 40, 40, I was 40. How old am I now? I'm still 40, aren't I?

00:23:36:15 - 00:23:39:10
Speaker 1
Yeah. Am I 41? Yeah. You're 40.

00:23:39:11 - 00:23:47:05
Speaker 2
Yeah. I, we sort of didn't even start questioning it until 3 or 4 years ago.

00:23:47:08 - 00:24:11:19
Speaker 1
I mean, we were running a neurodivergent. Can I call it education? Just laughing. Additionally, a neurodivergent awareness account. And we didn't even know. And it was our audience that kept saying, I think Rich's autistic. Think Rich is one of us. Seer was diagnosed at 11. Yeah, we knew there's a family connection. And yet still it's like you can't see the wood for the trees.

00:24:12:00 - 00:24:13:14
Speaker 1
It was right in front of us.

00:24:13:14 - 00:24:43:01
Speaker 2
And I would say, what's super interesting, right, is that now to me and Sarah are both adults. We're very similar in, in our autism, I guess that we're very similar in personality. We're very similar in traits similar with the things that we struggle with. What I would say is that seer was more distinctly autistic as a child than maybe I like.

00:24:43:02 - 00:24:47:02
Speaker 2
It was more recognizable in seer as a young child than me.

00:24:47:03 - 00:25:11:15
Speaker 1
Do you think that's the different generations and the time? Maybe because the stories of you as a kids, you started playing golf at eight and were going to play golf with all the old men every morning and got obsessed. There's something unusual there, the way you used to sort of label everything and feel quite anxious if you lost, like there were signs.

00:25:11:15 - 00:25:13:03
Speaker 1
But at that time.

00:25:13:05 - 00:25:14:21
Speaker 2
There was this language for it.

00:25:14:21 - 00:25:33:24
Speaker 1
In the 80s, I think people were more aware of and there's different words for it. And I'm so sorry if I offend anyone or choose a word that you don't use. But people that would have maybe profound autism where you couldn't not notice.

00:25:34:00 - 00:25:35:11
Speaker 2
Higher needs. Yeah.

00:25:35:12 - 00:25:36:18
Speaker 1
Higher support needs.

00:25:36:19 - 00:25:37:17
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:25:37:19 - 00:25:46:08
Speaker 1
So if you didn't have that it would be easier to slip under the radio radar. Whereas nowadays there's a lot more awareness.

00:25:46:09 - 00:25:52:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. And teachers know about it. And yeah that's really fair.

00:25:52:08 - 00:26:01:22
Speaker 1
Right. Ready for the next one. This is number nine. Believe it or not. Sensory issues are just people being difficult.

00:26:01:24 - 00:26:35:18
Speaker 2
Oh, man. So one of mine. You probably don't even know about this. One of my problems is flip flops, not sandals. Flip flops? I'm talking a bit of plastic between. The thong. My toe that I. If I, if you put one of them on me, I would be able to think about nothing else other than that. So I wouldn't be able to have a conversation with you.

00:26:35:18 - 00:26:47:10
Speaker 2
I would just be thinking about how it felt and how I could potentially position. Is there a different way to wear these shoes? Like, I cannot achieve it. I can't achieve life without without that.

00:26:47:11 - 00:26:49:15
Speaker 1
So. Well, is it about the flip flop that.

00:26:49:16 - 00:26:58:23
Speaker 2
I don't know? I can't, I just can't stand the feeling of something in between my toes or no.

00:26:59:00 - 00:27:06:24
Speaker 1
So you're not just being difficult. I feel that's a way to judge young autistic people.

00:27:06:24 - 00:27:17:10
Speaker 2
But I wouldn't say anything about it. That's why I know it's not about being difficult. I would just get on with it, but. Oh, man. Gross.

00:27:17:12 - 00:27:23:05
Speaker 1
You also have some food stuff if there's stuff in the sink.

00:27:23:07 - 00:27:25:00
Speaker 2
Yeah, like mushy, gross stuff.

00:27:25:00 - 00:27:33:05
Speaker 1
Clothes. You have to wear quite specific clothing. We get you special socks now as well that are like bamboo and soft.

00:27:33:05 - 00:27:37:02
Speaker 2
And I can't put a pair of socks back on. Oh, once taking them.

00:27:37:07 - 00:27:39:07
Speaker 1
Touched your feet. Yeah, yeah.

00:27:39:09 - 00:27:46:24
Speaker 2
Can't do that. Yeah. Even if I got up, I'd been wearing the socks for ten minutes and then went swimming. I wouldn't be able to put those socks back on.

00:27:47:00 - 00:28:10:18
Speaker 1
I think it's white. So important to have adults as well, talking about this, because I feel other adults can hear that and not put that label on it. It feels like quite a nasty thing to say to a kid. You're just being difficult. Eat it. Who cares if it's touching, but it's like very easy to judge a young person.

00:28:10:18 - 00:28:16:03
Speaker 1
So I love that we've got a sort of another voice in the autism community.

00:28:16:04 - 00:28:34:00
Speaker 2
Music is another one that's really interesting to me. And this is where me and sered differ quite a lot. Like you'll hear when me and Sarah together, or when she is here. You'll always ask me to get them to turn the music off if we're just about to do something. So they listen to music while doing things, I can't.

00:28:34:01 - 00:28:41:01
Speaker 2
Like, I get overwhelmed pretty immediately. So yeah, different.

00:28:41:03 - 00:28:48:16
Speaker 1
Okay. And the last one I've saved a big one for last. Okay. Are you ready?

00:28:48:17 - 00:28:50:12
Speaker 2
I'm ready.

00:28:50:14 - 00:29:00:11
Speaker 1
I'm going to do my best. Like, right wing voice. Disclaimer. Wing voice. I'm being sarcastic.

00:29:00:13 - 00:29:06:15
Speaker 1
Autism is being over diagnosed these days.

00:29:06:17 - 00:29:32:13
Speaker 2
Well, that's interesting. So I, I think I think you mentioned it before. I think the spectrum, the spectrum, the spectrum is like widening a bit. Here's a good example I know. So as Burgess. Right. That used to be a thing that was diagnosed. I understand that it came from somewhere quite dark, the name of it. But essentially.

00:29:32:14 - 00:29:34:10
Speaker 1
He was a Nazi, right?

00:29:34:11 - 00:30:17:13
Speaker 2
Well, the way that I understand it, forget that for a moment. The reason that it was different is maybe down to like, support needs. Because I sit here running a business, in a happy relationship I wouldn't down a job with. I do have some needs, but not not really. Like there will be they'll they'll be small in comparison to other people that are also autistic that maybe can't speak, definitely can't hold down a job and need full time support.

00:30:17:15 - 00:30:50:08
Speaker 2
That is, it's called the same thing, but it's not the same experience. And that's maybe why it's perceived. And I can imagine it can be quite challenging for like parents, maybe with autistic people with such higher support needs. Hearing the likes of me saying, look, look, this is all the things that I struggle with. Like it'd be really easy for them to be like, what?

00:30:50:10 - 00:30:51:14
Speaker 2
Do you know what I mean?

00:30:51:20 - 00:31:21:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's something that ADHD doesn't have. Of course it can be different and maybe you could see it as a spectrum, but it doesn't have that level of difference within the support needs. And yeah, I think Asperger's again, I'm so sorry if I get the language wrong or use something you wouldn't use yourself, but was like lower support needs autistic people and that was separated.

00:31:21:14 - 00:32:05:21
Speaker 1
And then it changed in the DSM and then it became kind of autism spectrum disorder, ASD, which then everybody was in the same place. And there's a lot of conversation about that, whether that was the right thing, if it's a good thing, however, it being over diagnosed and I think it's so lovely that you can talk about it and not be upset that people might say that I think that's important and understand people that might have a different opinion, but would say ultimately it's a good thing that, you know, and even if someone was lower support and he's God, it doesn't mean they're not struggling.

00:32:05:23 - 00:32:21:18
Speaker 1
Of course. And it doesn't mean especially women who are typically higher masking that they could have been leading a difficult life, not finding happiness or peace. And this could be the piece of the puzzle that helps them actually leader for Phil in life.

00:32:21:18 - 00:32:53:22
Speaker 2
Definitely. Me being diagnosed has really helped explain a lot of me questions that I had about myself. It answered a lot of scenarios and things that happened in my childhood, the way I think about things. It answered loads. And that's all true. And it's also true that there are people with the same condition or same diagnosis that, in my opinion, have a lot harder time.

00:32:53:24 - 00:33:00:02
Speaker 2
It's another phrase that I don't, I don't particularly like. It's like high functioning autism. It feels quite shaming.

00:33:00:03 - 00:33:00:20
Speaker 1
Does doesn't.

00:33:00:20 - 00:33:02:14
Speaker 2
It, to. Yeah. And it's.

00:33:02:14 - 00:33:31:07
Speaker 1
All I've actually used that before without knowing. I think it may have been on this podcast and people were like, that's just because you can work like you're basically called high function if you can enter capitalist society. Yeah, it's quite shaming. I, I guess is why we're saying support needs. I love that you'll talk about it, though. I think it's important to be able to show respect and include people that may not have a podcast, but who are absolutely part of the conversation.

00:33:31:07 - 00:33:33:15
Speaker 1
So thanks for being awesome.

00:33:33:18 - 00:33:49:03
Speaker 2
Hope you have all enjoyed the busting of the myths. If you have these like, subscribe, share, do everything really helps support us grow and reach more people. But until then, see you next week.

00:33:49:06 - 00:33:50:06
Speaker 1
See you next week.