So this is a mistake I see a lot of clients make who, I'm just
gonna say it, don't have the best attorney representing them.
And a lot of clients will walk into court thinking they're gonna use the
words high conflict and label their ex in an attempt to beat them in court.
And I can't disagree with this strategy more.
I think it's crazy.
I think it's dangerous, but walking into court and saying your ex's high
conflict is one of the fastest ways to lose credibility because the court
isn't here to hear your opinion.
They're here to see the evidence.
And so that's what we're gonna talk about today, some of the biggest mistakes.
And right from the beginning, I have clients who, you know, will
talk to their attorneys how they would a friend or just anybody.
And so when you're talking to your attorney and you're
like, "Oh, my ex is an asshole.
She's a crazy bitch.
You know, she's a narcissist.
He's impossible to deal with.
" Those are things you say to your attorney, but you do not say those in court
because those are all opinion pieces.
You may think they're an asshole, but maybe they're an upstanding citizen.
They just don't like you and so you two don't get along.
and for you to say they're a narcissist, well, you're not a doctor.
So you really aren't able to say those things, right?
And so it's impossible to work with this person, but yet they can bring in six
witnesses to say they're great at their job and they work well with others.
to say stuff like, "Well, she never communicates." Well, that's very broad and
basic, but you gotta talk about, "Well, what is she not communicating about?
" So all of these fail because they're emotional.
They're not factual.
It puts the level of conflict just as much on you as it does them because
you're just there labeling them.
And the judge hears this shit all day long, to be honest.
So it doesn't kind of stand out.
It just kind of just, like, here's another person up on the stand labeling
their ex as this, this and this without any proof or any pattern showing.
So this is the shift that needs to happen.
You're not up there to describe your ex.
You're up there to demonstrate their behaviors over time.
So stop saying it and start showing it.
That's how your attorney should be coaching you.
And if your attorney is not coaching you on how to speak in
court on the stand, well, I'm gonna give you an episode for that.
It's coming up.
All right?
So the tactical thing to do is to reframe what it is you're complaining about or
the thing that you're wanting to show or the label you're wanting to give.
We have to reframe it into tangible, measurable things.
Tori, I can see, wow, those numbers are staggering.
Those numbers are atrocious.
Those numbers and those things are just, "Wow, I am impressed that this person is
such a piece of shit." And that judge can take their own label by hearing the data
that you give them behind a statement.
So here's where people go wrong.
They'll make a statement like, "He's always late." You'll get on the stand,
you're like, " Always late, never on time, can't account for him, always
15 minutes here and there." Okay, well, that sounds a lot like bitching.
And while it may be true, have you tracked it and are able to prove it?
So instead, I would say something like this, and this is what I recommend
to all of my clients, is to make sure it's tangible, measurable, right?
Out of the past 30 exchanges for this court date, he was late 18 times, ranging
anywhere from 10 minutes to 45 minutes.
So out of the 18 times late, six of them were over 45 minutes late.
So this isn't me just getting on the stand being like, "Oh, he's always fucking
late." It's in 30, just 30 exchanges.
Now, Judge, we've had 120, but I just took the most recent 30.
And out of those 30, over half of them, 18 of them, he was late.
Those are numbers that my judge can write down listening to my case,
because if you're new here, judges hear your case, but then don't
determine them the findings until maybe 30, 60, sometimes 90 days later.
So if they just write down, mother complained he was late and he reads
that 60 days from now, is he gonna be like, "Oh wow, it's not that big a
deal. Maybe he's five minutes late." But if you give them data supporting
that, that's easier to write down or show in evidence in a spreadsheet.
Next one, she doesn't communicate.
Okay, well, that sounds like a you problem.
Judges hear this all the time.
"Oh, this person's being accused of not communicating.
" But instead I'd say something like, " Out of 22 messages regarding the
children, 14 received no responses.
" What?
14 times they did not respond about the children, but yet they're sitting
over here saying they want joint, they want fifty fifty, they want full
custody, whatever they're saying, but yet they can't communicate.
So already we've had a comment about being late, we've had a
comment about communication.
Here's another example of where parents get it wrong and attorneys
don't coach you the right way.
He talks badly about me all the time.
Now my first question would be as a judge, how do you know that?
Right?
How do you know that?
But instead, I can say in three week period, there's been 27 messages
containing insults or profanity, and I have them here highlighted.
What?
In just three weeks, he's called you 27 bad names and they're all highlighted.
And a little side note, what I would do if I was your attorney is I would,
when your ex is on the stand, I would have them read those out loud.
That's what I would do.
I would have them read that out loud.
The next one, she doesn't show up.
Okay, well, was it one time?
Was it seven times?
Doesn't show up for the kids.
She never comes to anything.
Okay, well, is that your opinion out of how many things?
Instead, I would have my client say something like, " They've missed
five school events, three medical appointments, and two scheduled
visitations just in the past 60 days.
" Again, I want to make sure that I'm showing data behind my accusations.
The last one, just as an example, he doesn't pay.
Instead of saying that, I have to break down what is he not paying
for, and is he court ordered to?
That would be my first question.
Currently $2,400 behind in copays and school-related expenses
just in the last four months.
So again, I don't need to put all of these labels on my ex. I want
to give evidence that the judge is gonna smack that label on themselves.
Wow.
Doesn't pay, doesn't show up, always not communicating, late to a visit.
Those are tangible.
Plus I can prove all of the things I said with documentation, which
can be part of my case as evidence.
So why do patterns win in court?
It's simple.
Judges look for consistency, not an isolated incident.
And this is where I have a lot of clients who will say," Yeah, Sam, but
three years ago, X, Y, and Z happened.
Sam, six months ago, this happened.
Okay, well, have they done it again?
" Because here's how a judge is gonna look at that.
And again, I need you to always remember, a judge hears this shit every single day,
and not that he should be categorizing your case against another case, but
instinctively, he might say," Oh gosh, this case is so much easier than the
one I just got out of this morning.
" So you have to show that your ex isn't just having a bad human moment, that
this is a repeated, bad pattern behavior, and that the pattern shows that the
decision that this is who they wanna be.
They wanna be somebody that's always late.
They wanna be somebody that doesn't show up.
They wanna be somebody that doesn't pay because I've shown
a pattern of their behavior.
And I'm just, I gotta repeat this.
So many of you think this one incident that happened, and I don't care how
bad it is, you think this one incident is going to help make your case.
And I just have to tell you, from the years of experience that I have,
don't put all your cards in that.
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Because I'm telling you right now, if I was coaching the other side of that,
I would say," I had a human moment.
I lost my mind.
You're right.
I overreacted.
I was getting ready to lose my whole family and I lost my mind.
I talked out of churn.
I did X, Y, and Z. " They will downplay it as a one-time event, but when you can show
a pattern, that speaks differently, okay?
The other part, the emotional discipline piece.
This is where you have to separate your audience from the rest,
meaning who's listening to you?
You have to stop venting to the court system.
That audience is for facts.
Your therapist is for venting.
Even your attorney, if you can afford to, vent to them, but you're not getting
on the stand and just venting about how horrible they were in their marriage
because that divorce is about the future and you have to prove that you're fit.
So we wanna stop trying to get the court to understand emotionally what happened,
and we have to start getting the court to see what physically is happening.
What's the data show?
Start thinking about building your case and not just telling a story.
Some of you are great storytellers.
You're great.
I'm a good storyteller.
But can you imagine how slam dunk my case would've been if I
would've been a good storyteller?
I could repeat stories that happened, but also show the data to prove
the patterns that were happening.
Instead, I just get up and say," Oh, he's a horrible person.
Oh, she's this and she's that, and this one time she, but I had data and evidence
that's measurable to back that up.
" So court is not where you process your pain, it's where you present your proof.
So if it's not measurable, it's not data worthy, I don't
know why you're bringing it.
So you wanna tell them exactly what you have to start doing, right?
You wanna bring this to the courts and say," Look, this
is what I'm gonna show you.
I've tracked all of the dates and times for exchanges.
I have screenshots of the piss poor communication.
I have logged all the missed events or late payments or the no responses.
You are gonna keep it factual.
You are gonna take emotion out of it.
You would have to ask yourself on everything, does this make sense
to where if a stranger was reading it, they would be able to come to
the conclusion that this person has a pattern of bad behavior, of bad
co-parenting, of being just a bad human.
Whatever you're trying to prove, does your data support that?
Because you getting up and telling an emotional story could help you, but
if you had data to back it up, it's going to improve your chances, right?
Start showing the court that there is a pattern, and then let
the pattern speak for themselves.
If I tell a judge that somebody's been late, 18 out of the last 30 times,
statistically, I'm gonna show more than half the times they're late.
I can't help but go, "You know what? This person has a problem with time."
They are not respecting the wishes of the courts to comply with a set schedule.
That's a problem.
I don't have to say those words.
The data will show those words because when I go up leading with,
they're always late, they're a high conflict, they're a narcissist.
The judge is labeling me right away, that I'm stepping out of my lane and
putting labels on somebody that I'm not trained or certified to give.
I don't want that mark against me.
I'm just gonna show the data and let that speak for itself.
So if your attorney is not coaching you on this strategy, especially with your
own evidence, I beg the question, "Do you have a Larry?" Because they should
be taking all of this evidence and using it in your case in a very organized
manner to show the pattern of behavior that your ex is displaying of high
conflict without saying those words.
Your attorney should be coaching you on how to document, should
be showing you how to document.
Now, again, this is stuff that you need to learn because if you've
learned anything from me, you gotta take care of your own case.
Just because you hired an attorney doesn't mean you're done.
You gotta work full-time as your own paralegal documenting things,
things that are worth proving.
Somebody's an asshole, they're an asshole, but if somebody's always
late or misusing time or not paying back or not communicating about the
children, well, that's a different case.
Anybody can be an asshole and be a parent, but it's a matter of can they
co-parent and I gotta show the pattern that they're not, and that's why I'm
asking the court for X, Y, and Z.
So work with your attorney.
If not, my team is here to help you, but you have to start understanding
how to perform better in court, and it's not walking in, telling a story
and smacking a label on your ex. It's showing patterns, it's showing behaviors.
That's how you'll win.