Jayne Ray: Hi everyone, I'm Jane Ray, and welcome to another episode of Joyous Journeys Over 60, and as always, I'm joined by my fabulous podcast partner.

Andreas Stein: Well, you are the fabulous one, Jane. I'm just Andreas, but you are fabulous, fabulous Jane.

Jayne Ray: And today we have a guest! And we have a guest. Very, very comfortably behind me is my dog, Cosmo. He's two and a half, and he has decided that no matter what I'm doing today, that's where he's going to be. So, if our topic is not exciting enough for him, he'll probably close his eyes.

Andreas Stein: He's already pretty much asleep, isn't he?

Jayne Ray: Yeah, he's pretty much, asleep. He thinks he's a cat. So, yeah, it's kind of an interesting…

Jayne Ray: Thing, but yes, Cosmo's gonna be our guest today. So, you know, today, Andreas, we're gonna make a little bit of a pun on a movie, and talk about, honey, I Shrunk the house.

Jayne Ray: And.

Andreas Stein: Just the kids, just the house.

Jayne Ray: Just the house, not the kids. But shrinking the house, downsizing, is a pretty common decision for people as they approach retirement. And, you know, of course, there's a variety of reasons why individuals and couples decide to downsize.

Jayne Ray: You know, some of it's financial, right? Take, you know, whatever money you can out of your current residence. Some of it's social, looking to, you know, move into a community of people that are your contemporaries.

Jayne Ray: Some of it is moving to a completely different location. Maybe it's a climate issue. If you live in the winter and, you know, you're… you don't want to be in the winter anymore, you choose to downsize and… and, oh, we… we bored Cosmo on that one.

Jayne Ray: But, you know, there are a lot of different reasons why people decide that they want to downsize. But, you know, there's… it's a bittersweet decision.

Jayne Ray: And I know, you know, in your experience, you deal with a lot of people of an age. You know, what do you see in terms of why they decide to downsize?

Andreas Stein: Well, you know, many reasons. You know, one is just physical. If you own a house with steps and stairs, you know, and you know that, you know, this is going to become an issue in the future, you know, where running up, flight of steps is an issue, you're looking for a place where, you know.

Andreas Stein: ranch style, where there is no more steps at all. And actually, when

Andreas Stein: Danila and I moved from Omaha down here to Florida, now we were 50 years old about, so it wasn't an issue yet, but we know it could become an issue, so we very intentionally were buying a house, you know, where there's no more steps, where we are safe, you know, and…

Andreas Stein: But part of it is also, you know, what I see a lot, I mean.

Andreas Stein: Especially in this retirement season of life.

Andreas Stein: you know, you… you value even more so than at younger ages community, because, you know, you know wherever you're gonna move to, you hopefully find friends, social networks, they are no longer a given as a result of your job, your work.

Andreas Stein: You know, so you… it's not just the house itself that you're downsizing, but you are looking for a place

Andreas Stein: where you know, alright, I can make friends there, I want to live there, not just because of the weather, not just because I prefer the beach over the mountains, or whatever it is, but this is a place where I think I can make friends, where I find community, where I can be a part of something where I feel like I belong.

Andreas Stein: And so very, you know, and then, so once you think along those lines, you know, where can I find community? You know, alright, the next house is probably going to be a smaller one, I don't need to raise kids anymore, I don't need to have 3 bedrooms because of 3 kids hopping around, it's just…

Andreas Stein: my spouse and me, or it's just me. So, I mean, you know, a two-bedroom is plenty. You know, and if a guest comes, then, you know, he can sleep on the floor in an air mattress or something along those lines, you know, or find a hotel close by, you know, but you no longer need to worry about it.

Jayne Ray: You know, it's funny, funny you say that. So, my mother-in-law, from my first marriage, lived with us for 20 years. Yeah. And she had lived with her husband, for 50 years. He passed away very suddenly, and we thought it was the kindest thing in the world for her to move in with us.

Jayne Ray: And I will tell you, she lived with us for 20 years.

Jayne Ray: Now, thinking back on it, I think we did her a disservice.

Andreas Stein: Man.

Jayne Ray: And because living with us, we had young children, she didn't drive, we were in a single-family home, so we weren't in a community, per se, and I think we denied her.

Jayne Ray: And she never complained, but I think at some level, we denied her the benefit of having people who grew up like she did, people of her generation, people that had common memories, people that she could relate to.

Jayne Ray: And we were working, and again, we had young children, and so, you know, we would talk at dinner, and she would talk about something that we had absolutely no clue.

Jayne Ray: about… I mean, she told us stories, but, you know, again, thinking back on it, I think our intentions were good, but…

Jayne Ray: maybe we denied her that… that ability to be around people her own… her own age. So, you know, I think that… that's really interesting. The other thing is, when you talk about downsizing, I am currently sitting in a 600 square feet tiny house. So, you talk about downsizing, we took one house and split it into two small places. So we have a little villa in Florida.

Jayne Ray: That's 1,200 square feet, and we have a tiny house in Georgia that's 600 square feet. So, so we really did kind of the ultimate

Jayne Ray: downsizing, which I don't know that everybody would do, but for us, it was more a question of the lifestyle than the footprint of the house.

Andreas Stein: And I think you hitting the right word. You know, somehow you need to make a decision what kind of a lifestyle you want to live, you know? And, you know, and maybe your lifestyle says, you know, I want a larger place because I feel more comfortable, and that's perfectly fine.

Andreas Stein: But you need to be intentional about, alright, do I want to have…

Andreas Stein: a lifestyle that's more outdoor-oriented, you know, where I'm actually just using the place to sleep and to eat breakfast, and then most of the day I want to do whatever, so you don't need 3,500 square foot, because…

Andreas Stein: you know, you're never inside. But what kind of… I think, what kind of a lifestyle do you want to live?

Andreas Stein: You know, and that determines what kind of a place, you know, whether it's a downsizing, or kind of staying the same, or moving. I think that's one of the most important questions to consider. What lifestyle do I want to live?

Jayne Ray: Yeah, and I think the decision to downsize, and you know, for everybody, maybe it's not the right decision. People stay in their family home, and again, you know, I'm making an assumption, like, I lived in my family home for 35 years. Maybe you've only lived in your family home for

Jayne Ray: 10 years, as people moved around. But whatever the decision is, it is your decision, first of all. There is no right or wrong decision. But I think it's probably more common

Jayne Ray: that, that people, as they, you know, enter into their 60s, do decide to downsize. As you said, part of it's safety reasons, part of it I need to get away from a house with stairs.

Jayne Ray: Part of it is community, you know, trying to figure out, do you want to be around a 55 and older, community? Funny enough, both of my communities neither are 55 and older, but

Jayne Ray: Most people are 55 and older.

Andreas Stein: You know what I found also, Jane, is a lot of people… now…

Andreas Stein: 55 and younger, you know, if you have children.

Andreas Stein: you know, even if you have a successful career, you know, a large part of your life will be organized around taking care of your kids, you know, making sure they get through school, into college, and this is a lot of work. And now, part of downsizing is, alright, I want to stay close to my kids, but not too close. You know, I want to have a little bit of… now I finally can be independent again, you know, like when I was 25, now I can do things.

Andreas Stein: things, and don't need to second check first, well, what do my kids need? Is there a soccer game, a baseball game, a football game, whatever. Now I can really just do what I want to do. So part of this downsizing is, alright, I have my independence back, and I want to enjoy this for the next 20 years, so I want to be close enough that they can come and I meet grandkids.

Andreas Stein: But not that close that I'm kind of the default babysitter. By the way, I need you Monday to Thursday, from this time to that time every day of the week, you know? So, that plays into it as well. I know you were kind of in that position.

Jayne Ray: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I think there are many people that want to be very close, particularly to grandkids. And so, you know, they choose… when they choose how and where they're going to live, that's a factor.

Jayne Ray: There are others that want to be close, but not that close, so that, you can see and spend time with your grandkids, but also have the independence that perhaps

Jayne Ray: You're right, where your decision is your decision, not necessarily based on whatever's going on in the family. And so, and again, there's no right… there's no right or wrong.

Andreas Stein: No.

Jayne Ray: I think one of the factors, though.

Jayne Ray: that really plays into the downsizing decision is, as I said before, it's bittersweet, particularly if you've been in a home for a long time.

Jayne Ray: So, you're not only leaving your, your home.

Jayne Ray: But there are a lot of memories that have been lost in that home, and some good memories, and some maybe not so good memories, right? But there's a nostalgia that comes with downsizing. I know when I left my family home.

Jayne Ray: it was bittersweet. My, you know, my kids were born in that house, and and, you know, raised in that house. And I remember when I walked around the house when it was empty, and I knew it was the right decision. I had no regrets about that. But I walked around the house, and I thanked it.

Jayne Ray: Which I know sounds a little, like, a little crazy, but I did. I walked around the house, and I thanked it for giving my family a home base, and I actually wrote a note for the new owners.

Jayne Ray: and told them, you know, this had been a house where my kids had been raised, and again, good things, bad things, but that I wish that the house would give them memories as well.

Jayne Ray: Nostalgia can be a very powerful emotion. It can be a very good emotion, but it also has a couple of traps, right?

Andreas Stein: it has traps. You know, obviously, nostalgia is sweet, right? I mean, you remember and kind of…

Andreas Stein: Hindsight, nostalgia, everything looks… pinker than it used to be, you know? Suddenly, what was kind of a…

Andreas Stein: A struggle back then feels like it was the greatest thing ever, but that's fine. I think the trap of nostalgia can be that it sells you something without you realizing it.

Andreas Stein: you know, a message that if you accept this message, it can become truly, kind of a trap, meaning, you know what? It's never going to be as good as it was back then.

Andreas Stein: You know, remember? You know, 20 years ago, and you listened to this great music, and these memories, and how you gathered with your kids around the Thanksgiving table, or whatever, you know, and how you were slicing the turkey, and whatever the tradition was, and it's never gonna be as good again.

Andreas Stein: And that's where, you know, nostalgia, as sweet as it is, can become almost a trap that can…

Andreas Stein: You know, shame you. You know, because…

Andreas Stein: it might actually be better, the futures, than it ever was. There is nothing written that it can never be as good. It's gonna be different, of course. Nothing is ever gonna be the same in life. You're not living in cycles that repeat itself, but nostalgia… I don't know, overall, it's sweet.

Andreas Stein: But for me personally.

Andreas Stein: I always enjoy it with a little bit… with caution, you know? Be careful there, that you're not swallowing a message that is… that could be problematic.

Jayne Ray: Yeah, I agree with you. I think that nostalgia can, as you use the word chain, it can chain you to the past.

Andreas Stein: Yeah.

Jayne Ray: And you're so chained to the past that you're missing all of the wonderful opportunities of the present and the future.

Jayne Ray: And I think there's a risk there that, that you believe, particularly when you're at an age where, you know, let's face facts, your life is like a book, and every chapter in the book, you know, has its ups and downs, but if you stop your book.

Jayne Ray: At a certain chapter and keep rereading that chapter over and over and over again.

Jayne Ray: you know, you never move to the next chapter, right? And of course.

Jayne Ray: you know, we… I mean, sadly, we all know what the end of the book's gonna be, but the difference between, you know, this chapter and, you know, and the ending hopefully still has a lot of joy in it, certainly has a lot of experiences in it, and can be fantastic.

Jayne Ray: But don't get caught in the loop.

Jayne Ray: You know, that chat.

Andreas Stein: You know.

Jayne Ray: Crazy.

Andreas Stein: that in most books, the final three chapters are the best. There's a highlight of the story, I mean, this is when everything reaches. So Nostalgia Tales, you know, the first couple chapters, they were great, they were great. No, the first couple chapters lead you up to

Andreas Stein: to the real deal, to the highlights, you know? And… I mean, listen, I'm like everyone, I love to reminisce.

Andreas Stein: I'm… I'll be turning 55 in a couple months, I guess that still qualifies me as somewhat young in many settings, but I… but it's an age where I started to kind of… oh my god, when I was in high school, oh my god, when I was a teenager, and I listened, you know, I remember some of the music that I listened to, you know, we talked about it, so I claim the 80s as my era, my decade, so it was disco music.

Andreas Stein: Right? Which you told me, yeah, not necessarily, you know? You were more the hippie age, 60s, you know, music.

Andreas Stein: And so I love… of course I love to remember, reminis, nostalgia, but I want to be intentional about, you know what, I enjoy the memories, but I'm not gonna buy the message, this is as good as it will ever be. I do believe there's still some amazing things waiting for me, and I want to enjoy them.

Jayne Ray: You know, it's funny you say that. So, this weekend, I went with my sister to the

Jayne Ray: Happy Together tour, where I… I didn't know much about this tour, but they, they do it every year, and they bring in bands and performers from the mid to late 60s into maybe.

Jayne Ray: 70, right? And so I was somewhere between, I don't know, 12 and 15, so my teeny bopper years.

Jayne Ray: I claimed the 70s, because by then I was smart enough to be able to distinguish good music, but back then we would have probably called this bubblegum.

Jayne Ray: Right? And so the bands they had, you, as we talked about before, Tom, you've never heard of. The Cowsils, and, the Association, and, the Vogues, and, the Trogs, wild thing.

Jayne Ray: But, there were 2,000 people in this venue. I call it a sea of white hair, right? So there was definitely a sea of white hair, and people were having a blast. They were dressed in tie-dye, and they were buying Happy Together t-shirts, and… but the funny thing is, even though it's been…

Jayne Ray: 60 years?

Jayne Ray: Not quite. Since then, we all knew the words.

Jayne Ray: Right? We were all singing, you know, my sister and I were sitting there, we're singing the songs, and it was remarkable. I haven't thought about many of these songs in a very, very long time, but those words came right back. And so it was an evening of wonderful nostalgia. Of course, it was a little scary to realize that these performers were in their mid-70s to mid-80s.

Jayne Ray: And, most of them had, white hair, or were bald, or, you know, whatever. Now we're being joined by my cat.

Andreas Stein: There you go.

Jayne Ray: So,

Jayne Ray: And my cat's 13, so he's feeling nostalgic, too. But it was a wonderful time to be with people that grew up with us, right? That remembered these… remember, we didn't have streaming, we didn't have Spotify, we didn't have anything like that. So these were, these were songs on the radio.

Jayne Ray: And you knew every word, and maybe you bought an album, or you bought a 45, or… or whatever, but it was a couple of hours of being with

Jayne Ray: people that… I didn't know any of them, other than my sister, right? I didn't know any of the people sitting next to me, behind me, or whatever. But there was this just common nostalgia

Jayne Ray: And everybody had a great time. I mean, everybody had a great time. The band members had a great time. Some of them told stories. I always wondered what they did after, because most of them were 3-4 hit wonders.

Jayne Ray: Right? One of them were, you know, like the Rolling Stones, or the Beatles, or, you know, bands that had a very long career. Chicago, maybe. They had the lead singer of Chicago. But, oh, Cosmo's back. But, but it was a collective

Jayne Ray: revisit.

Jayne Ray: to the past. But when you left, You went back to today.

Andreas Stein: factor today.

Jayne Ray: back to today, and yes, my sister and I went on our phones and looked up a bunch as to how old are they, or, you know, and sadly, some of those band members had passed away, you know, before this, but apparently they do this tour every year, and they

Jayne Ray: change some of the bands and whatever, so if, you know, if you're interested in the Happy Together Tour, highly recommend it. They, they do, like, 20 cities. But when we left.

Jayne Ray: We went back to today, and today's pretty good, right? Today is pretty good. So…

Jayne Ray: In downsizing, you know, I'd say it sounds a little corny, but sometimes you have to downsize to upsize your life.

Andreas Stein: I don't think it's corny at all, I think it's true, you know? It's, I think it's…

Andreas Stein: The difference is, you know, you can be very intentional. You know, when you downsize, you exactly know what you want, you know, and then you can organize, I want this house, this place, this lifestyle, and you can be very intentional about that, and that intentionality, I think.

Andreas Stein: helps, you know, quite a bit. And…

Andreas Stein: As you said, I mean, you step back into today, you enjoy these two hours or so of time travel.

Andreas Stein: You know, and then, alright, my… unlike then, my hip hurts, my knee hurts, I can't dance like I'm back then anymore, and alright, it's obvious, time has passed.

Andreas Stein: But life is pretty good today, you know, despite the hurting hip, knee, or whatever.

Jayne Ray: You know what, even those that had a bad knee or a bad back, they were up and…

Andreas Stein: That's enduring the pain, Rosa.

Jayne Ray: I went home, and yes, had to… had to apply some, icy hot or whatever, but…

Jayne Ray: You know, and I kind of want to wrap up with one thing, because, you know, downsizing to upsize your life, you know, you said something about being intentional, and I think one of the scary parts about downsizing is picking that place.

Andreas Stein: Yes, it.

Jayne Ray: Picking that place, is it going to be in your current community or nearby? Is it going to be in a place like Florida, where, you know, we have a lot of people that have relocated from the north.

Jayne Ray: and choose to downsize to Florida, or at least for the winter. You know, picking the right community is a scary decision. It goes back to when you picked your current house.

Jayne Ray: You know, how do you know which is the right community for you? How do you know which is the right place? You know, it's kind of like the, you know, the place you know versus the place you don't. It can be scary, but it can also be incredibly exciting.

Jayne Ray: Right? And one of the episodes we're gonna do, coming up shortly is gonna be, you know, why is it hard to make new friends at a certain age? And yes, moving into a community can be intimidating like that, but you don't know until you take this step.

Andreas Stein: Once you move.

Jayne Ray: Make the decision to downsize.

Jayne Ray: Right? And that's the first decision. Once you make the decision to move on, that's really what you're deciding, right? Right. For whatever reason is motivating you, you've decided to move on.

Jayne Ray: Then the rest of it is scary like a horror movie. Scary and exciting at the same time, right?

Andreas Stein: Yes, it is.

Andreas Stein: You know, and unlike a horror movie, you can't just turn the TV off.

Andreas Stein: You know, it's… You know, but it's exciting.

Jayne Ray: It is exciting, and you know, sadly in horror movies… I hate horror movies, but.

Andreas Stein: I've watched one horror movie in 55 years of life, and there's not gonna be a second one, I promise you that.

Jayne Ray: A thriller instead of a.

Andreas Stein: No, those are fine, yes, no, but real horror, no.

Jayne Ray: I feel them.

Andreas Stein: No.

Jayne Ray: of a horror movie.

Andreas Stein: Remember, I couldn't sleep for two weeks after, so it's not gonna happen again.

Jayne Ray: now I want happy movies. And, you know, but that's, that's, you know, that's the point, isn't it? Is that,

Jayne Ray: thrilling. Maybe that's the word.

Andreas Stein: That's the word.

Jayne Ray: thrilling.

Andreas Stein: I love that bird.

Jayne Ray: And a little scary, right? But thrilling is a little scary. You get on a roller coaster, again, I hate roller coasters.

Andreas Stein: What, if you have that in common?

Jayne Ray: But people love roller coasters, right?

Jayne Ray: Looking for the thrill of this next chapter.

Jayne Ray: And knowing it's probably not going to be, you know, it's not going to be perfect from the beginning, right? Right from the day. Might be. Right. But it's… it's… it's being excited about the future.

Jayne Ray: And I think that's the part, you know, I've said this before, a friend of mine says, honor the past, but don't be bound by it, right? Honor the past, but don't be bound by it. And I think never before, never again, will those words ring true as much as they ring true right now.

Andreas Stein: Absolutely.

Jayne Ray: So, downsize to upsize your life. I mean, I think that's a good mantra. Absolutely.

Andreas Stein: it is.

Jayne Ray: Stick with you out of this, out of this episode.

Andreas Stein: There we go. And nothing wrong with enjoying 80s disco music, or 60s, hippie rock, or whatever it was called.

Jayne Ray: The funny thing about the whole Happy Together Tour, bubblegum music, and if you're my age, you know what bubblegum music, what the term actually means. But if you remember, at the same time in the mid-60s, we also started to have what's now called classic rock. Wasn't classic…

Jayne Ray: You know, at the same time that the association was emerging, or the cow cells, and again, if you're my age, you know what that is, you know, we also saw the emergence of Led Zeppelin, right? We also saw the emergence of, you know, some of the heavy rock

Jayne Ray: band. So, again, I was probably somewhere between 12 and 15, so I wasn't yet a Led Zeppelin fan, when I was in my 20s, maybe. But, but yeah, again, enjoy it, love it.

Jayne Ray: Just don't be stuck in it.

Andreas Stein: Don't be stuck in it.

Jayne Ray: All right, well, Andreas, as always, I have downsized, you're, you know…

Andreas Stein: We have downsized from Omaha, where Nebraska, 3,500 square foot house, to around 2,000, so that's, you know, not quite…

Andreas Stein: Spitting it in half, but close too.

Jayne Ray: Okay, well, I had 2,000, and I've… Downsized it to 600…

Andreas Stein: Plus 1200. You just split.

Jayne Ray: It's not for everybody, but for us it works, and of course.

Andreas Stein: Amazing.

Jayne Ray: As far as we have $12.50. Anyhow, in future episodes, we are going to talk about, you know, kind of breaking the ice in a new community after you make a decision to downsize, so…

Andreas Stein: That's a scary thing, yes.

Jayne Ray: Remember, downsize to upsize. All right, we'll talk to you soon. I hope your journeys are truly joyous.

Andreas Stein: Yes.

Jayne Ray: Bye, Andreas!

Andreas Stein: Bye, Jane.