Sarah Poynton (00:01.518)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Money Mechanics podcast. Today I'm super excited to be joined by actually a very good friend of mine, Jen is the founder of a business called Sew Confident. And I'll let her tell you all about that in a minute. She is also a global sewing business entrepreneurial coach and an author of a book called Stop Playing Small. Jen and I met in... 2020? 2021? Can't remember now.

one of them, and we met in Ibiza on a business retreat, and I met Jen in a bikini with a gin in my hand, and we've been best friends ever since, basically. So Jen, tell us who you are. First of all, thank you for being here, but tell us who you are, what you do, make us a little intro.

Jenny Drew (00:36.94)
then telling them, okay, you know what the gender is now, do we have the best friends ever since?

Jenny Drew (00:43.628)
Tell us who you are you do. Make us a little intro. Okay, so my baby really is so confident and what we do is so confident is we teach sewing classes, we sell fabrics, sewing machines, all like nice high quality stuff, none of your nonsense cheap fabrics or anything like that and the kind of ethos of this business is to

Yes, to teach people how to sew, so we'll teach you how to dress make, how to make curtains, how to we do knitting and crocheting crafty things as well. But actually, what the business is about is about encouraging women to give something new a go. Because in turn, when you when you try something that you think, I'm never I can't sew a button on, which I hear all the time. And then you realize actually, I can do way more than sew a button on. I don't think I was capable of it. It's like, well, what else are you?

are you kind of telling yourself that you're not capable of that you are capable of? So it's a big confidence thing. There's a big de-stressing element for women as well. A lot of my customers are people who you would think wouldn't have the time for a hobby. So they are lots of doctors, lawyers, a lot of NHS people who are very stressed out actually and they need something to switch off because sitting in front of the TV, they've got their phone in their hand, they've got their laptop on their knee.

Sarah Poynton (01:59.79)
Thank

Jenny Drew (02:07.082)
and that is not relaxing at all and they never switch off but when you're sewing you're having to engage your brain to actually understand you know you're putting a dress together or whatever I mean you've been to one of my sewing retreats many months ago you know exactly what it's like

Sarah Poynton (02:18.422)
I have. Just taught me to make curtains because I'm one of these busy people with a busy brain. I had to concentrate on making curtains, which now hang in my living room.

Jenny Drew (02:26.476)
There we go and that actually curtains is the one thing that saves you a fortune as well. So there's a whole load of things but basically it is about creativity, de-stressing, the social side as well because as you're an adult it's harder to make new friends and meet new people and I think that's really important. I've never really struggled with making new friends and meeting people so I didn't I never really thought it was like a big deal but as I talked to other people

you know, you've got your school friends, you've maybe got your university friends and then it stops unless you've got a business and you're networking, I think. That's easier way to make friends. So it's all about kind of empowering women and but also making nice clothes on the side. So that's so confident. And then off a similar kind of vein is the sewing business coach, which is where I help people to do what I've done essentially because in the creative industry.

Sarah Poynton (02:59.766)
Mm-hmm.

Jenny Drew (03:21.694)
in any creative industry, women sometimes play things down and be like, I don't really want to do that. But we know that women make amazing business owners. They build great businesses. They become great employers if they're given the tools and the confidence and they just need a wee bit of a hand to be like, I'm actually quite good at this and I'm going to go back. Like this doesn't have to be a hobby business.

Sarah Poynton (03:24.526)
you

Jenny Drew (03:46.454)
So that's one thing that kind of annoys me in the sewing world is that a lot of women have sewn as a wee side hustle or as like a little, what's just a wee hobby business? But I'm like, see if you want it to be more than that. Like absolutely can be. So I help people do that essentially. So those are the two aspects of what I do.

Sarah Poynton (04:06.292)
Excellent, thank you very much for that. the first question we always start with is what's your earliest memory of money?

Jenny Drew (04:14.86)
My earliest memory of money is actually in Spain. I love a holiday as you know and even as a youngster I was my mom my parents took me on holiday so a lot which was great it's probably why I love the sun so much now. I believe I was in Spain and I was selling all my dad's belongings back to him for pesetas because that's how old I am. It was pesetas the wee coin with a hole in the middle like what was I don't even know what that was but

Sarah Poynton (04:35.374)
you

Amazing.

Jenny Drew (04:44.37)
All I knew was I was exchanging all of my dad's belongings that I have taken from his probably suitcase. I had lined them up into a shop. I'd called it Mrs Mogg's shop and I was just fleecing him for his own belongings basically. So that's my earliest memory of money. I don't really remember much else before that. was maybe, maybe I was like eight years old or something I think when I was started in that not very ethical business of theft and then...

Sarah Poynton (04:55.694)
I love it.

Sarah Poynton (05:07.182)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Poynton (05:13.198)
Stealing. Stealing back, So in your life, in your experience around money, do you think that your earliest experiences with money have contributed in a positive way to who you are as an adult, business owner, now mum, wife, all the things? Do you think that what you learned when you were super young?

Jenny Drew (05:15.082)
I'm feeling bad.

Yeah.

Sarah Poynton (05:42.67)
is what has carried through. Have you learnt new things along the way that is different now?

Jenny Drew (05:47.949)
I actually think I am one of... I feel quite fortunate in that my parents were good with money or I always thought they were. I don't know if that was always the case actually. So I never... I was never aware of us not having enough. I was never aware of, you know, we didn't... I didn't have... we didn't have like... I was never aware of them having debt. They probably did have debt.

Sarah Poynton (06:13.431)
Mm-hmm.

Jenny Drew (06:14.752)
But there's not any negative, which I think is quite unusual actually because you hear me with money stories mostly being around there wasn't enough, I was told money doesn't grow on trees and all that and actually I didn't have that at all and it's not that my parents were rich because I now know that they used to go down that side of the couch and look for, try and get money together to buy themselves a Chinese on a Friday night or whatever so actually it wasn't that they had loads of money but I was very sheltered from it which I think is quite nice.

Sarah Poynton (06:18.242)
Mmm.

Sarah Poynton (06:24.44)
Mm-hmm.

Jenny Drew (06:44.108)
And my dad is good with money and I think what that has instilled in me is perhaps a negative that I've picked up is that money is a security blanket for me. It is up there with, if the bank account's running low in my business or personally, I start to freak out. be like, so I need like, am I a safety net kind of person? I need a safety net.

of a certain amount of money that's in there that makes me feel calm and in business as you'll know there'll be some months some years even where it's everything's tougher and those years stress me out so much so i think that's maybe that's the that's the only negative i've got i'm not sure quite where that comes from to be honest but it's just maybe it's a really common thing as that money is like a safety blanket for me but the i think probably my youngest

It felt plentiful I suppose money when I was younger and plentiful for me as a child was that my dad would always give me 50 pence for shops like it wasn't like he was never going to say no there was always there was always kind of money lying about as well like his bedside table in particular he had a wee thing of money and he would always say just go and take 50 pence or go and take a pound and go to the shops and I don't know if perhaps visually seeing money lying about made me think

Sarah Poynton (07:45.314)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Poynton (07:52.747)
You

Jenny Drew (08:10.38)
there was plenty of it, even if it was only £5 sitting there or whatever. So I think maybe there's been some intentional stuff that they've done that's made me, you know, I've not got big issues with money, but there's also been some unintentional things that they've not maybe known that they've done that has created a sense of there will always be money, you'll always be okay, which I know is quite unusual and quite fortunate. I do not take that for granted at all because it makes everything easier as you get older.

Sarah Poynton (08:11.138)
Thanks, Mani.

Sarah Poynton (08:15.48)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Poynton (08:27.468)
No.

Sarah Poynton (08:39.51)
Hmm. Yeah. I think that's really interesting. what you're saying is that, and again, it's your, I don't think this is a common thing. I think most people I speak to have this like backstory of money where they think, and especially entrepreneurial people that I speak to and quite a lot of, I think just cause the audience that I have and the people that I work with clients and stuff, it's often women have this backstory of there's not enough money. So they fight and fight and fight and they build a business to be independent and free so they can have their own money. So what you're saying is that you're,

experience around it was that it wasn't abundant necessarily, but it was available. And because of that, you never really worried about it. And so actually I, and again, I've spent a lot of time speaking to you about money and business and all things, and your attitude to money is always, well, we'll just make more money. Like, because more money is available and there's plenty of money out there and we can all get a bit of it. You just need to figure out the how to do it. And that's always, I'm always really like,

impressed with your attitude to that because not a lot of people have got that. It's one of reasons I love you so much is me and you have the same attitude to that is, shit, things are going wrong. Inevitably business is business. It will go wrong a little bit, but it'll be all right because actually we'll just make a bit more money and actually that will, it'll reset. And you think that comes from your, what's the word, your certainty that there will be more.

It might take a minute, it might be hard, but your certainty that it will come comes from that awareness of money being available when you were little. It's interesting.

Jenny Drew (10:11.436)
I think so, because I can't think of where else it came from. I mean I've done some work on it as well, like I think we've all done the whole let's delve into a kind of unconscious money story. I love a bit of therapy, love a bit of NLP, a bit of hypnosis, timeline therapy, you name it, I've tried it. So I've done a bit of that but it's never come up as something that needs fixed in me. There's been other things that have need fixing. A lot of other things need fixing but not, not, not.

Sarah Poynton (10:17.555)
Mm. Yeah.

Sarah Poynton (10:25.996)
Yeah.

We're all action-packed with other issues, but that's not for today,

Jenny Drew (10:40.128)
But yeah, I think that's probably where it comes from and my motivation to start a business was never I would... It wasn't that I didn't want to make money but my motivation I remember for starting the business was I don't... Honestly, you're gonna laugh at this. I don't want people telling me when I can and can't take my holidays.

Sarah Poynton (11:02.03)
I'm not going to laugh at you because I feel the same.

Jenny Drew (11:05.068)
I don't want people telling me what to do but specifically I used to work in retail when I was a student and I tried to, my pal was going on holiday and I tried to get like a week off or whatever and they were like, no someone else has got holidays and I was like, so? Like tell them that maybe I know because I'm going.

Sarah Poynton (11:19.854)
I don't care. I'm going anyway.

Jenny Drew (11:24.236)
You know, which not the best employee in the world because I don't like being told what to do but that was my biggest driving factor and money obviously gives you a lot of freedom and allows you to have a nice life and it's very important but it was for me more of the control over my own life and own destiny that kind of made me start my own business.

Sarah Poynton (11:27.448)
Thank

Sarah Poynton (11:36.077)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Poynton (11:42.991)
So how do you think money impacts control of destiny? Let's talk a little bit about that. Because there's lots of people listening to this who have jobs and they say to me often, yeah, but Sarah, entrepreneurship's not everything. Like some people are really happy in their jobs and I get it they are and that's fine. I would be a shit employee.

same as you, I don't want to ask for permission. I want to be able to start my day at 10 o'clock. I want to have a shower and do my hair and stuff before the like the gym, and then I want to do all the things. I want to sit and have a coffee at three in the afternoon. Should I want to? Like, I don't want to have to ask. But how do you think money impacts people's choices to either be employed or have a business? Do you think for most people it's money?

Or do you think for most people it is that freedom bit that makes the decision to do one or the other?

Jenny Drew (12:38.124)
think it's probably most of the money. I think people get trapped in jobs and can't leave, to be honest. another thing that happened to me that was, again, I'm quite fortunate for it was, I've got a creative degree. Nobody wants to hire somebody.

who has a fashion business degree, unfortunately, turns out that four years and then only realized at the end that nobody wants to hire anyone who's doing a fashion business for four years and had no option other than to kind of start my own business or work in retail. Those are my options like working retail forever. I actually quite liked retail, not gonna lie. So I'm not bashing retail at all. I did quite enjoy it but.

Sarah Poynton (12:59.202)
Yeah.

Sarah Poynton (13:10.69)
That should it.

Jenny Drew (13:14.732)
Whereas had I done a degree that had a guaranteed good job with a nice chunky income, I think I would have got trapped in that potentially. Or maybe I would have, who knows? You don't know what's going to happen, but I do think it's very hard, especially the older you get when you've got responsibilities, mortgages to pay, you've got a car that...

Sarah Poynton (13:25.251)
Hmm.

Sarah Poynton (13:32.366)
Mm-hmm.

Jenny Drew (13:34.247)
probably shouldn't have that's too expensive whatever it is and then you're like well how can I take the risk when there's it's not just about the older you get it's often not just about you anymore either you maybe got families that require you to actually bring money in and it's like why how could you leave it's too big a risk I would get stuck in that and I think that's what happens people get stuck and it's very always very

Sarah Poynton (13:50.862)
Hmm.

Jenny Drew (13:57.389)
I always admire people who do leave a job and say, right, I'm doing one thing, I'm going to give it a crack. And I suppose it's like, if it was me and I had a nice job, I would be put, and I wanted to start more business, I'd be squirreling away so that I had that safety net in case it didn't work and I didn't want to try it. But ultimately you can pretty much make, I feel like I could make almost anything work. But that's maybe an absolute madman.

Sarah Poynton (14:14.04)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Poynton (14:24.546)
That's a belief thing though.

Jenny Drew (14:26.76)
mentality of like

Sarah Poynton (14:28.684)
you do have a mad man mentality or you absolutely do. And I think the, the, the, of the most incredible things about you as a business woman, as a friend as well, is you genuinely just have a positive approach to all things. Like even when shit's hitting the fan, even on our worst days when I've ever cried on you or we've had a conversation over cocktails where like, the world's falling apart for either of us, you definitely have a very similar approach to me, which is, yeah, but what...

actually is this doing to help us learn how to get better at the thing that we've been trying to do? Is that just ingrained in you or have you got to work to get to that point?

Jenny Drew (15:09.196)
I was 100 % not always like this. Like, I had a family situation that happened where there's a family member who's estranged from the family and never thought it would happen. And it really knocked me for six. It kind of shook everything up and I was an absolute mess. And I used to be so, I was actually negative before that. Somebody once told me at this, we're going back a good probably 10 years now, but somebody once said,

Sarah Poynton (15:12.247)
Okay.

Jenny Drew (15:35.725)
said that I was one of the most negative people they'd ever met and my reaction to that was like, what are you talking I was though, I actually was, everything was doom and gloom but I think it was a bit of circumstantial stuff or it was because you I'd felt like I'd done all the right things, I'd gone to uni, I'd done the four years at university and I'd graduated in a recession, we're still in that recession to be honest, we've never really come out that as as I'm concerned but people still make money in recessions which I didn't know at the time.

Sarah Poynton (15:39.523)
What?

Sarah Poynton (15:53.058)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Poynton (15:57.56)
Thank

Jenny Drew (16:04.32)
And I just felt like I'd done everything right, I'd studied hard at school, I'd done the university thing and then I kept getting, losing my job after university and I just felt like nothing was going right for me and I felt like, why is my life so shit? Like this isn't fair, I've done everything I was supposed to do, I was super, super negative. Then this thing happened with a family member who's now like estranged and I don't speak to them anymore and it...

Sarah Poynton (16:22.946)
Mm-hmm.

Jenny Drew (16:30.156)
But what happened at that time as well was when I was going through this really tough time, I remember I was so stressed out about it that I wasn't sleeping and my eye was twitching. I mean, I now know that as stress because I do sometimes get it. But at that point, I was like, couldn't, I didn't know what it was. Like I didn't realise that it was like my body was trying to tell me like, you need to change something here. Like calm your jets. This is crazy. I was so highly shrunk for such a long time. And I worked it in

Sarah Poynton (16:45.538)
Mm-hmm.

You need to calm down.

Jenny Drew (17:00.156)
menswear retailer at the time like a small independent one they were buying this is why it's like everything happens for a reason thing comes from they were buying a gift shop and they wanted a member of staff in the gift shop

before they had made the full transaction so that they had a member of staff that they knew and trusted who knew how everything worked and within that business. So I went over to this gift shop called Maya Gifts, still there in Glasgow and the sale fell through so I'd moved over to this other company which was a much, it was much more aligned to, it was like really a gorgeous shop that got lovely girly things versus a menswear shop, like not really my vibe obviously I don't wear menswear clothes. And the people who owned it

Sarah Poynton (17:17.794)
Thank

Jenny Drew (17:41.803)
were very spiritual and they, Sonny and Sam are, and are still to this day, I'm friends with them and they changed everything for me like and again I think I was meant to meet them because he was kind of gently

Sarah Poynton (17:59.087)
.

Jenny Drew (18:00.173)
He was like a therapy I suppose because he was, you know you meet people and they've got such a zen energy that you're just like, I'm so calm and you're... and he obviously knew there was something going on and was kind of like, tell me what's going on and I can remember we'd be like cashing up sometimes and him or his partner Sam would be like, what's going on with you? And he started to say, I think one of the most powerful things he said to me was, you being annoyed about this situation is only hurting you.

no one else knows about it like if someone has done you wrong or you know maybe they haven't done you wrong and you just think they have but if someone is affecting you and you're letting it get to the point where it's going to make you ill because I had the pure twitchy eye and all that wasn't sleeping all the rest of it then it's not actually affecting them because they don't know and I thought that's actually really powerful and he's like the only thing you can control is how you approach this situation and he was like just forgive just forgive everything

Sarah Poynton (18:56.077)
Thank

Jenny Drew (18:56.576)
like and let it go and I really struggled to do that because I was quite a feisty like angry person probably before that and since then I'm still quite feisty but I let things go.

Sarah Poynton (19:05.326)
I you're still pretty feisty now, to be fair. Less angry.

Jenny Drew (19:10.284)
I'm less angry. I'm feisty, but I'm also like, I'm feisty, but then I'm like, let's look at how, what's the learning outcome in this feistyness? So since then, so I was really actually quite a super negative person until that turning point, whereas now I'm much more trusting in the process, trusting in like the universe or whatever you want to call it. I call it the universe. That everything happens for a reason. There's everything you should, you need to learn from everything that happens, good and bad in your life.

Sarah Poynton (19:15.468)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jenny Drew (19:40.398)
That really helps with dealing with bad news because you do get bad news in business and life and it really helps with life in general but I was not always like this. It's probably the last 10 years.

Sarah Poynton (19:54.901)
That to me is a really spright because I didn't know that story. And I think it's really interesting to just be aware of just how easy it is to change the way we think about things just by hearing something said in a slightly different way than what we've heard it before or being surrounded by different energy to what we used to, different types of people with different attitudes and approaches to things can actually change everything literally in a conversation. It's fascinating.

Jenny Drew (20:21.388)
Including financial stuff so it's not just about aery fairy feeling good because you've forgiven everyone and everything's fine but just like changing your energy 100 % just opens you up to receiving other like just other opportunities that are going to lead to wherever you want to go whether that's money whether that's a you know better

Sarah Poynton (20:25.721)
Thank

Sarah Poynton (20:44.227)
Yeah.

Jenny Drew (20:46.784)
work-life balance, whatever it is, but it's, you know, I know that obviously your good friend Emma is big and you are big into energy and crystals and all that sort of thing and know that some people will think crystals like stones, very good, but if you think they work for you then they do raise your motivation and they do work. So I do, I'm big on protecting my energy now and even when bad things happen, I'm not wallowing in it.

Sarah Poynton (20:48.174)
Mmm.

Sarah Poynton (20:55.502)
V

Sarah Poynton (21:01.932)
Happy days, yeah.

Yeah.

I think.

Yeah, that's such an important thing. And I think, like, I remember back to like my recruitment days and actually you've kind of just reminded me of a thing that happened, when I was leaving recruitment, I left recruitment because there was some personal shit going on in my life, big, hard stuff. And I remember asking my boss if I could have some time off and they said no. And it was this like situation. So I started my own company and I left and

I remember saying to my friend at the time that, because my boss had basically said to me, you'll be back. There's no way you're going to make this work on your own. You'll be back any minute. And I remember, I think she put in an email or a text or something like this. I said to my friend, I'm going to print this thing and I'm going to put it in a frame and I'll it on my wall in my office. And that's going to be the energy that will drive me forwards. And my friend then said to me, I don't think you should do that because whilst it's a motivator,

Jenny Drew (21:57.068)
Yeah.

Jenny Drew (22:00.758)
that sits me.

Sarah Poynton (22:07.436)
You're being motivated by super negative energy and you're doing it with spite in your heart rather than doing it with ambition and aspiration and excitement in your heart. And I didn't ever print it and I never put it on wall. And obviously we'll never know if it would have made any difference or not. I remember that conversation kind of changing the way I was approaching stuff. Like instead of doing it to prove to them I could, I was doing it to prove to myself that I could. And I think that I think has served me.

along the way and that approach to things just changed everything.

Jenny Drew (22:37.303)
I think it's so easy isn't it to fall into that they will rule the day that they did that to me and I do get it still a bit like that to be fair but like you you have to you know it does light a fire under you a wee bit sometimes to be poor let's make them sorry that they ever you know didn't award us that contract or whatever it is but it's not a good place

Sarah Poynton (22:43.894)
Mmm. Yeah.

Jenny Drew (23:00.596)
it pulls you down. can use it for a week to like make you make some moves and then you need to get over it and you need to go back to a nice positive place otherwise it's not good.

Sarah Poynton (23:01.07)
It's not a good place to, yeah, 100%. You can't stay in that energy for long periods of time.

Sarah Poynton (23:09.366)
Yeah. Yeah. 100%. 100%. So one of things you said earlier was in your experience, obviously working with the type of clients that you work with, generally you said, especially women, they tend to play a bit smaller than what we see men playing, right? Why do you think that is?

Jenny Drew (23:27.564)
See you

Jenny Drew (23:36.941)
I'm such an insane feminist that I just think that women have been pushed into a box for forever pretty much and I think the tide is turning recently. There's things that are changing. People are getting fed up with it. Women are getting fed up with it and people are realising that if women actually ruled everything then it would be a very different world. I think it's Finland that's completely run by women and they're like the happiest country.

Sarah Poynton (23:50.114)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Sarah Poynton (23:58.263)
Life would be different world, yeah.

Sarah Poynton (24:03.212)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jenny Drew (24:06.668)
in the world or something like that. I'm like, can we pay more attention to this please? But I think we're just told from really early on, you, you know, oh, you're just going to look pretty, find a nice husband, you know, live off them and have a nice house and oh, you have a couple of wee babies, that'll be nice. Whereas men are told like, oh, you can go to the moon, like really extreme polar opposites and it's not even intentional anymore. don't know.

Sarah Poynton (24:31.532)
Mm-hmm.

Jenny Drew (24:35.904)
I don't think it was maybe ever intentional, maybe it was, but it seems like you're just told from such a young age, you know, you can go do something arty or you're dead pretty and it's just like, don't tell, it's just a different, you're just raised differently as a woman. And even, I'm kind of noticing now, so I've got, as you know, a 10-week-old baby and you can't, also the problem we've got now is they tell you you can have all, you can have the business and the baby and the family.

Sarah Poynton (24:40.586)
Hmm.

Sarah Poynton (24:49.25)
Mm-hmm.

Jenny Drew (25:03.88)
and I can tell you right now that it is incredibly difficult to do both. So I'm only 10 weeks in and I can tell you that if I didn't have a literal village of people helping me that I wouldn't be able to be here because my mum is literally downstairs with the baby. It's just difficult because and whilst yes there's nine months where you have to be pregnant and have the baby and then you could just pam the baby off to someone else.

Sarah Poynton (25:17.304)
Be here.

Jenny Drew (25:31.761)
something in you that doesn't let do it, like you just couldn't, you couldn't do it, you could not hand them over, if you're feeding them yourself they're glued to you, so there's a lot of like physical reasons why it's harder for women I think to, it's easier for them to be like I'm just going to find a husband and he'll pay for things and I'm not saying that's what a lot of women do now but it's society and it's patriarchy isn't it, which doesn't really benefit anyone because it's

Sarah Poynton (25:50.84)
Thank

Jenny Drew (26:01.394)
It's crap paternity leave. So for men they only get two weeks off a lot of the time. There's just so many things that are working against women reaching their full potential, I think.

Sarah Poynton (26:12.59)
Fair enough. So where money is concerned, right, as a woman who is a business owner, a mum, a wife, all the things, right, how do you think money works against us as women in

the bigger picture because I think the more money we've got, the easier life becomes. I don't care. It doesn't buy happiness. I get it. Like people say, yeah, but money's not everything. No, money isn't everything. You're a hundred percent right. But money greases the wheels. Money pays for private healthcare so we can get shit done quicker. pays for a car to be fixed if it's been broken. If the car, the tire goes flat with no money. It's fucking hard. It's really hard. Like you said earlier, like having a safety blanket of money so that you feel safe and secure is a big part of my world.

And like money does make a difference. So in a positive way, when you have more money, money, it makes life easier. But do you think that money works against women in any way that makes them play smaller?

Jenny Drew (27:21.004)
don't know, that's an interesting question. I just think it's our turn.

Sarah Poynton (27:25.312)
Or generally the way money is in society, the way that money flows through, like is there anything you think that actually makes it harder for girls?

Jenny Drew (27:35.447)
It's just harder for women to make money, isn't it? We don't get paid the same, we don't get valued the same. I don't want to sound like an absolute negative Nancy and a poor me because I was born female, but it is true. Wherever I go, or I'll walk into a car showroom with my husband and it's me that's buying a car and they talk to him and say to me, so it's just lots of things. There's assumptions that are made that quite, be quite damaging that assumes that

he's the one that makes all the money and I don't really make any and I just, you know, he gives me an allowance or whatever and we're just not like that. I think the biggest issue is that women just do not get paid as much in jobs obviously but also in business. I don't get taken as seriously as a male in business and 100 % know that to be true and I'm more likely to go into like, females are probably more likely to go into like a creative sewing, not very many men own sewing companies so

People say, even with the language around, like I used to get folks saying, oh how's your wee sewing business doing? It used to drive me insane. Cause I'd like, it's not wee, so let's like... Yeah, exactly. like, I could probably make more money than you, mister. Why I started going to networking actually, because the assumption was always that women weren't doing as well as some bro in fintech that's not even started anything up yet. And I actually noticed there was an accelerator.

Sarah Poynton (28:34.978)
Please.

Sarah Poynton (28:42.966)
I turned over hundreds of thousands of pounds this year actually like.

Jenny Drew (29:04.788)
that I went into when I was quite early in the business, I was maybe like five years in and this accelerator was amazing because it was my first experience of really networking with people, meeting other people that were doing similar things to me and it really elevated my business actually a hundred percent, there's no doubt about that and I've still got friends from this. So an accelerator is basically just a, for anyone if someone's listening doesn't know what that is, it's just a group of people who have businesses who are

It was organised by a bank and think called Entrepreneurial Spark, which I don't think. Were you? How mad is that? I just bloody loved it. It was basically like a room of people who all had crazy ambitions, crazy ideas and they were going to make them mad. And I just found it so inspiring because there people just doing mad stuff and I thought if they're going to do this then why am I thinking that I'm not going, that I can't sell a class for...

Sarah Poynton (29:39.982)
Yeah, I was in it as well. I was in the same accelerator. Yeah, 2015.

Sarah Poynton (29:51.406)
Ahem.

Jenny Drew (30:01.548)
I can only sell it for a hundred quid, do what mean? So was just so, there was so many ambitious people in that room. But what I really remember is there was some people who, there was a lot of women with incredible ideas, incredible businesses, doing incredible things, who were not being taken as seriously as some guy with a tech business who had been doing it for four years and had done nothing with it, but kept getting investment, somehow kept getting money.

thrown at them, whereas there was women doing incredible things who were never getting a look in, and whether that's that they weren't encouraged to go for the same thing.

Sarah Poynton (30:35.982)
was just going to say, do you think that's because they weren't confident enough to ask like men are or do you think it was more something else?

Jenny Drew (30:41.196)
I think it was a bit of both, bit of them not thinking they were worthy of it and them not being put forward as much for these opportunities versus a guy who could talk a good game but you know now doesn't have a business and the women do but it hasn't grown as much as it could have done if they'd been treated equally and it wasn't even that they were treated unequally on purpose but it was just

you would assume that the camera was going to do better, like... drives me mad. So it was definitely...

Sarah Poynton (31:11.886)
It's interesting. So, Carol.

Jenny Drew (31:17.676)
definitely some societal stuff going on. It's getting better, 100 % getting better, I would say. But that's why I like working with women in business and creative industries because I'm like, why not though? Why can't you have an Audi Q8 if that's what you want? We'll sort it out for you. We'll, like, how much you need, we'll sort it.

Sarah Poynton (31:21.816)
know.

Sarah Poynton (31:36.399)
So Audi Q8 is my next car. I've got a Q7 now and I want a Q8 because they're just sexier. it's on the thing. So one of the things you said there was really interesting around being in a room full of people that were more ambitious than the people you'd generally been around in your life and being inspired by that, learning from that, et cetera.

Jenny Drew (31:42.26)
Is that it? Here we go. Why don't you have a round of curious era?

Woo.

Sarah Poynton (32:06.188)
When it comes to money, do you think that the people that you surround yourself with on a social level directly impacts your ability to earn money? So not your networks in business or your job, you know, the people that you work for, but I'm talking about the people you spend your Friday and Saturday nights with. Like, do you think that...

A person can be really successful and wealthy and financially stable if they're also surrounded by people who have absolutely no money, no debt, no investments, no nothing, like they do nothing to learn about money. Do you think somebody could stand alone in that space and be successful financially or not?

Jenny Drew (32:43.788)
actually no I do not believe that is possible and I think you're allowed to keep your friends that aren't aren't into you like you see investing aren't into being and maybe they're crap of money you're allowed to have them you can't spend all your time with them because that energy drags you down 100 % things definitely started changing for me and when I and I know you're saying not your business network but the people and that

accelerator that I made became my friends and became the people I was sometimes going out with on a Friday, Saturday night. And the conversations were different and what's possible was different. And you just coached each other, I think, actually, to think this could work, you know? If you're going to your friends that you... I'm actually quite fortunate in that most of the people in my life are ambitious and...

they're doing really well for themselves. You need a bit of both. You can't just be cutting everyone out because they're not driving a nice car. We're not doing that. We're not doing that. Because people bring other things to the table. It's not all about money, of course. But if you are surrounding yourself with ambitious people who are doing things that you didn't think were possible for you, but they're proving that actually you're like them and they're doing it, that kind of opens something in your brain, I think, that lets you think.

Sarah Poynton (33:48.59)
What do mean you haven't got an Audi?

100 %

Jenny Drew (34:10.988)
like I'm capable of this as well and I'm also going to ask them how they're doing it even if it's a different, in fact especially if it's a different industry because you can learn so much from people in completely different industries that is really applicable to your business it's a mistake to stay in a wee bubble with your own industry people I think even if they're all really successful because you know doing different things and you can learn so much from other, I think that's why I get on with you as well because we couldn't be further

Sarah Poynton (34:32.782)
15.

Jenny Drew (34:38.956)
from, you we're so different business-wise, the industries we're in are totally different, but I can learn so much, I have learned so much from you. Like your book, I listened to your audio book coming back from that Birmingham retreat where you made those curtains. And then that's what made me start investing actually, because I didn't fully get it, I wasn't confident enough and I didn't really know many other people who had shares or had crypto or anything like that. And now I've got all of it and I love it.

Sarah Poynton (34:42.2)
Yes.

Jenny Drew (35:07.626)
and I'm always telling people to read your book or listen to it because it just... They should! Actually they should because it is bit of a game changer. Nice shameless plug there for you.

Sarah Poynton (35:10.882)
Everyone should read Manumachanics.

Sarah Poynton (35:18.03)
Thank you very much, appreciate that. So let's talk about that. What was it about, not what was it about the book? I'm not looking for you to just gas me up about what's in the book. What I mean is what was it you needed to hear in the book that came from the book that helped you switch from, I just don't know how to do it so I'm not doing it to, I think I could give this a shot. Low risk, but I could do it. Like what switch, what did you hear that changed that?

Jenny Drew (35:44.525)
I think it was just feeling like I actually knew what I was doing because obviously if you're putting money in things I'll tell you about my first investment and it was before I read your book I think, yeah it was. So my first investment was a family member who I have a lot of respect for, was one of Steve's family members actually and he told me about and he wasn't actually telling me with a view to

Sarah Poynton (35:51.546)
Mm-hmm.

Jenny Drew (36:10.998)
you should invest in this thing, but he was just talking about it and I thought I'm going to invest in that. And it was Nikola Tesla and he was developing or they were developing the company, were developing electric HGV trucks, I believe. So I was like, this sounds like a little bit of industry. had never heard about it. I think it was quite new at the time. I don't know how he had heard about it. Well, he's oil and gas. I think he works in. So he's maybe heard from God knows who. And this

And he was like, this could be the next big thing, know, haulage, electric haulage, because haulage is obviously a big environmental issue, I'm sure. So I thought, right, I'm going to get on Coinbase and I'm going to stick, I think it was 200 quid, 100 quid or something. So not crazy money. And that was my first foray into investing, put it in that. And hilariously, do you know anything about this company? They got done for...

Sarah Poynton (36:48.515)
Yeah.

Sarah Poynton (37:05.784)
No.

Jenny Drew (37:09.248)
They used AI to create videos of their electric trucks. So the electric trucks didn't exist and they were a complete mess. They'd bent the truth, I think. And now I can tell you that that company isn't even on my Coinbase app. They disappeared, like, gone. So maybe that made me think, I don't know what I'm doing.

Sarah Poynton (37:19.68)
It's a scam company. Great.

Sarah Poynton (37:25.078)
Okay.

Jenny Drew (37:36.109)
here at all and I need help so what I needed was information about I need to understand what this works I didn't understand I didn't know what the FTSE 100 was at all I didn't understand I knew that it was something to do with like stocks and shares but I didn't understand that that's a lower risk way or place for me to put my money because it's it's somebody else's is making sure that the crap companies are getting kicked out and it's

Sarah Poynton (37:57.87)
Mm-hmm.

Jenny Drew (38:04.908)
So actually, probably the piece of information that made me feel much more comfortable investing was actually understanding what a fund was. But just having a baseline understanding of it all was quite empowering, I think, because it meant that if somebody was to ever ask me about, why are you, like, what is that, why are you investing in that? I knew how to answer the question, which sounds ridiculous, but it means that I'm now, you know, I've got lots of different, I do have like,

I'm not invested in other things that are not a fund but that feels like just an easy way to get involved in it without having to have a degree in it because that's the problem. I think a lot of people if you're not investing you think I've no idea how that works but I mean how long is your audiobook? I listened to it on my drive back in its entirety I think from Birmingham to Glasgow. Well I pretty much am involved with it.

Sarah Poynton (38:56.576)
I actually don't know how long it is. Like three hours maybe? Not long.

Jenny Drew (39:03.948)
I found it all so interesting and empowering and it was enough information for me to know I'm quite happy just sticking my money into different funds, into different crypto and I love it. think it's dead interesting. Thanks!

Sarah Poynton (39:17.746)
proud of you. Seriously, I remember like when you were first doing it, you were like, I've just done this, I've done that. And it's very, very cool to hear. It's very cool.

Jenny Drew (39:23.34)
I've done that! And I got Bosman down to because he wasn't investing in anything and he was like, when I was talking about it was like, what are you doing? And we're quite competitive so he's now every so often I would put our, so my funds worth this or like my portfolio is worth this and I'd be like well mine is worth this and it's not crazy money or anything like that but yeah it's quite exciting and it's quite nice to put your money somewhere and it's making money for you without you actually doing anything.

Sarah Poynton (39:40.15)
No.

Sarah Poynton (39:52.665)
Have you started investing for your little girl yet? We need to talk about this.

Jenny Drew (39:53.677)
Have you started the message for your new girl yet? yet, I've only... You to talk about this. We do need to talk about this because actually I was going to message you and be like where should I be starting? What should I be like? Do I need some kind of high risk stocks and shares, Isa? Because I'm a high risk kind of... I'd rather put it somewhere that's going to make a chunk of money but also might lose all type thing. So maybe you can help me with that.

Sarah Poynton (40:08.684)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Poynton (40:19.756)
Yeah. So the thing about it being for her, so she's 10 weeks old right now. So the thing about you investing with her future in mind is you've got time on your hands. So like if you decided to invest for her, to give her a big chunk of money when she turns 30, 30 years of compounded interest, where if you just put in like 75 pound three times a year even, it's a big amount of money that you can give her. So you don't even need to go high risk really.

Jenny Drew (40:24.503)
So, the thing about you investing with her future advice, you've got time on your hands. So like, if you decided to invest with her to give her a big chunk of money when she turns 30, 30 years is quite a pound of interest, where if you just put in like 75 pounds three times a year even, it's a big amount of money. So you don't really need to go in the high risk really, and you just let people know that that's trust, keeping the trust properly.

Sarah Poynton (40:47.83)
and you can just let tick along knowing that that's her trust. You put it in trust probably, not that that's investment advice anyone listens to this, but you'd probably put it in trust for her. You'd make her a trust fund baby basically. You create generational wealth that could continue forever. We can talk about that separately. The high risk stuff, I think this is all about allocation, right? You wanna have your like ticking along low risk diversified FTSE 100, SP, all of that sort of stuff.

Jenny Drew (40:54.444)
but you can't just it in trust. You make your trust one day, basically, you create generational wealth that will continue forever. We can talk about that separately.

Sarah Poynton (41:16.846)
But if what you want to do is some like sexy high risk stuff that's going to return big money, you just have to pick and choose your allocation properly. So, and I can't tell you now, I will talk to you about it offline, because I can't tell that on here. But the key thing to this is making sure that you look at your allocation and you're not taking the stuff that is long-term money you need to live on later.

Jenny Drew (41:22.259)
Yeah Yeah.

Jenny Drew (41:37.376)
involved in the stuff that he

Jenny Drew (41:44.805)
Yeah, yeah, I guess I'm willing to gamble with a bit of it, suppose. Not all of it. That's why, like, I've got a high risk pension because I actually think, are we going to even need a pension or have a pension? Is it going to be a thing when we retire? Will I ever retire? Probably not. So I just like stuck it in.

Sarah Poynton (41:45.171)
taking high risk with ear you want to take low risk with that stuff.

Jenny Drew (42:12.332)
like as high risk as possible because it'll probably be fine if it's not doesn't matter but yeah I will need to talk to you offline about that because it has been 10 weeks and I've been thinking she's got a wee piggy bank and it's got cash in it and like that is devaluing everything. Exactly, I can't handle that. So we need to get that into and people have given our money and all that so I definitely need to pick your brain there.

Sarah Poynton (42:20.387)
We'll do that.

Sarah Poynton (42:27.822)
Yeah it is, going down in value every day.

Sarah Poynton (42:38.252)
Yeah.

Sarah Poynton (42:42.242)
We'll talk about that for sure. So, okay, in terms of, I want to come back to the women thing, which boys listening to this, I'm sorry, we do tend to go off on a little female tangent every now and then, but we're not sorry, because we're girls and we need to have this conversation better, right? For the women listening to this, when it comes to earning money in careers, making money in businesses, what's your advice to them?

Jenny Drew (42:53.898)
I'm not sorry. Sorry.

Sarah Poynton (43:11.156)
to stop playing small where money's concerned either in a career or in a business or just in generally in life like what's your advice of how they approach that

Jenny Drew (43:22.284)
to make more money in their life. I think the first thing you need to do is you do need to do a bit of work on your money mindset. You have to think about like, what are my beliefs around money? Because that's the first thing that needs fixed. So if you are the kind of person that's like, it's all right for them. Or if someone drives past in a Lamborghini and you think, what a dick, like that's bad. That's not good because you're, if you've got all these negative

Sarah Poynton (43:26.146)
Thank

Jenny Drew (43:52.109)
emotions around money it's going to be so much harder to attract it yourself so if someone drives past me in a nice house I think a nice they're not driving past me in a house well they might be if it's a caravan but if they drive past me in nice car I think I wonder what they do I wonder how like what and they probably even if they do something they probably do something dodgy if it's like a Rolls Royce I drove past a Rolls Royce the other day and I thought what do you do like

I want to stop you in the street and ask you how can you afford this insane big giant car? So, and I've never really been the whole, it's alright for them, like they've got loads of money because they worked hard, you don't know what their story is, you don't know how they made it. But that's a symbol that they're just another human being and it's possible for them. So if you can get more into the getting curious around how are other people making their money, how are other people doing it? And it is available to everyone. It is.

Sarah Poynton (44:35.598)
Hmm.

Sarah Poynton (44:45.692)
Peace.

Jenny Drew (44:50.752)
for me the first step is money mindset and

Having a positive outlook on that you are worthy of nice things and of security and of creating wealth for you and your family, like it is available to you and it's in having the, you know, the worst thing you can be saying to yourself is, well people like me don't have, would never have that. like, people where I grew up, you're never gonna have money because...

It's possible for anyone, it happens all the time where people who come from dirt poor backgrounds end up being millionaires because they just believed it was available to them and they were the kind of person who could have the money, have the wealth, have the nice house, have the security blanket. It's all around energy for me I think is the first thing that needs fixed because without it you just, you might make money but you'll be miserable or you'll lose it or you have to believe that you're worthy of it which is

Sarah Poynton (45:27.438)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Poynton (45:39.608)
Thank

Jenny Drew (45:53.329)
a couple of therapy sessions sometimes needed for that to be.

Sarah Poynton (45:55.983)
So do the work is the answer, right? Like you've got to actually find out why you are.

sitting in a space inside your own inner narrative that is applying negative bullshit to the money that's in your life or not in your life for that matter. I wish I could say I've got this nailed. I've got a pretty good relationship with money, but every now and then I say to myself, oh, fucking hell, it's just not working today. And I had a client today ring me and I thought we were gonna close a contract today and we haven't won the contract. And I'm like, my friend was here and I was like,

Jenny Drew (46:25.964)
him.

Sarah Poynton (46:35.95)
I was all moody about it for like five minutes and I was like, but that's okay because what's going to happen, it gives me maybe back a bit of time and I can concentrate on something else and do it then. I like, I'm quite good at twisting that in my mind very quickly. Again, old me, when I was in loads of debt, actually I would have sat on that for days, weeks and be like, oh, life happens and, miserable, miserable. I agree with you that I think.

anybody who's trying to get to a point where they have more money, where they've got the freedom to clear down their debt or start to invest or go traveling or buy nice things, get a roller if that's what they want, like whatever the thing is, the first thing we've got to do is believe that we are worthy of it, deserving of it and that it's available to us because actually

I've sat with some very, very wealthy people and I've sat with some people that have got absolutely no money. And there's a very distinct difference in the way that they see the opportunity around money. People that have got lots of money believe that there is an unending amount of money and it's available to them. They just need to work out how to open the door. And in my experience with people with no money, they don't believe it's available to them because of who they are, where they're from or wherever it is. yeah, I agree with you. think doing the work on like...

your relationship with money and how see it makes a massive difference. And I think when you link that into investment as a whole, as somebody who's got a good relationship with money and risk, do you think that helps you?

to remove the emotion from investing in general. Because I remember you text me the other week, you were like, Bitcoin has fallen on its ass. What do I do? Do I buy more? And I'm like, let me just give you my thoughts, which again, I can't give you on the podcast. I'm not allowed to give that sort of advice, but you know what my answer was. And I was like, this is what I'm doing. Do with that what you want, right?

Jenny Drew (48:15.34)
you

Jenny Drew (48:18.764)
Yeah.

Sarah Poynton (48:26.302)
When you've got a good relationship with money, you can disconnect from the very emotional aspects of that and it allows you to make slightly different decisions. Do you feel like because you've got a good relationship, it allows you to be in that higher risk taker kind of space?

Jenny Drew (48:40.448)
think so because actually I'm not a big risk taker in any other aspects of my life.

Sarah Poynton (48:45.27)
No you're not because you tell me off when I don't wear a seatbelt in Spain.

Jenny Drew (48:47.846)
Exactly, exactly! As like everyone's seatbelts on, there's crazy drivers here, like, and you, I think what I would say to you, only takes one person in that car to not put their seatbelt on and you will pinball around and kill us all.

Sarah Poynton (48:53.678)
I didn't put my seatbelt on.

Sarah Poynton (48:59.854)
She was telling me about pinballing and killing everybody. It was quite the conversation. I put my seatbelt on in the end, just by the way.

Jenny Drew (49:05.228)
Yeah, yeah, you did. I put the fear into you. I do think that, I mean, if you think of like recent times, everything's, they keep saying, you know, the economy's tanking, Bitcoin, like you say, I've got quite a lot of money in Bitcoin, it has been tanking. And there was a small bit of me that was like, do I need to pull my money out of everything? Because I could just pull it all out and then it's sitting there.

Sarah Poynton (49:32.78)
Mm-hmm.

Jenny Drew (49:34.826)
I didn't pull anything out, I put more in actually, which is again what we were kind of talking about. I think I was before, I haven't messaged you recently about the Bitcoin, was the last time it tanked.

Sarah Poynton (49:44.566)
Not recently, this was the last time, yeah.

My answer's still the same.

Jenny Drew (49:50.283)
Yeah, well, yeah, totally. I totally agree. But I do think there definitely is something in me that kind of goes, it'll be fine. Like, it will work out fine. I'm going to keep it in there. I don't need it right now. It was I was only ever investing the money that I was happy to lose. And that's still that's still the case. Like, although it's grown and grown.

Sarah Poynton (50:11.086)
Mm-hmm.

Jenny Drew (50:15.496)
If it disappeared, I am not in trouble. And I think that is if you're so emotionally tied to this has to work or I'm ruined, that's a danger zone for me. I would never go there. That's not it. For me, it's more like I can afford to, you know, I don't miss that. It's going into whatever it's going into every month is what I do. I've just got a wee direct debit that goes in and then I just put it wherever I want to put it. that feels safe. Everyone's got their different level of safe. I suppose that feels quite safe to me.

Sarah Poynton (50:24.91)
Don't invest it.

No.

Jenny Drew (50:44.904)
and I definitely think that my positivity around it'll be fine and the money will come helps with taking the emotion out of investment, definitely do. So there's probably work to be done for people before they invest money on their money mindset because it will make that money easier and they'll probably make smarter decisions and not be like pulling things out making a loss, putting it back in when it's high, pulling things out making a lot like that's a terrible, just leave it.

Sarah Poynton (51:01.677)
Mmm.

Sarah Poynton (51:09.571)
Hmm.

That's a really good point because like I say all the time, the sooner you can start investing, the better. But actually, if you're investing from a headspace of fear and scarcity and really like poor relationship with money and debt and risk,

you're going to invest and you're going to lose money because you're going to put it in and when it wobbles, you're going to pull it out and you'll crystallize a loss. And that's actually not great. It's not great because you've lost money. And the whole point of investing is to make money. What Jen's saying here for anybody listening to this is that there's such an important component in the process of investing, whereby you need to disconnect from the emotion and you actually need to disconnect from the, from the wins. Really, you need to kind of assume that it won't win.

So when it does, it's a bonus as opposed to assuming it will win. So when it doesn't, it's a problem. And if you can approach investing with that attitude, you'll actually find that it will be way less stressful and you can just do it on a standard dollar cost averaging basis and it is easier. And I think that's quite an important thing in all the conversation we've had today. I think that's a really important thing for people to take away. It's actually, unless you can disconnect from it at an emotional level, investing becomes quite a stressful thing to do.

Jenny Drew (52:28.64)
Yeah, and like you always say, even if it's a really small amount that you're investing, you're learning how to do it. And even if it's ten pounds a month that you're sticking in there, it's still better than that ten pounds a month sitting in your bank account and making going down or you spend it on some nonsense that you don't want. But yeah, I find it really interesting and I think more women should just read your book or listen to your book and

Sarah Poynton (52:30.158)
Thank

Sarah Poynton (52:34.296)
Hmm.

Sarah Poynton (52:42.126)
Zero pounds. Yeah. Yep.

Sarah Poynton (52:56.163)
Yeah.

Jenny Drew (52:57.42)
give it a shot even with £10 a month and see what happens because that's how you learn how it all works and it becomes quite, there's something quite, what's the word, quite empowering I think about understanding how it works as well and the investment isn't just for rich people and it's not just for rich men. I've been right down on the men today but I'm super

Sarah Poynton (53:00.91)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Poynton (53:10.018)
Yeah, liberating about seeing it.

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Poynton (53:22.158)
We love you boys if you're listening still. If you've got this far, well done. We love you.

Jenny Drew (53:28.14)
Yes, more women need to get £10 a month sticking it in and having a play with it.

Sarah Poynton (53:33.313)
Yeah. And people think I had a conversation with a friend of mine last week and they were saying, yeah, but I need thousands to spa. And I was like, you don't, you need literally 10 pound a week, we do it. And 10 pound a week is actually like a bottle of wine or like a Starbucks, nine pound of coffee cost me the other day, nine quid. And, or it's like a drink in the pub.

A glass of wine is eight pound, nine pound, 25, right? Actually, you can start investing with 10 pound a week, and that would be enough to trigger the educational value of understanding it. Once you start to see it growing, you'll put more in because you'll have it and you'll find it. But the starting bit of it, that switch from not doing it to doing it, what you're saying that just starts small is a really, really good bit of advice.

Jenny Drew (54:18.282)
Yeah and also if you are in a group of friends or your social circle whatever and no one does it, be the first person to do it and then teach them how to do it. Or be the first person in your family that does it and then every other member of your family from now until whenever will be better with the other. They'll benefit from it because they will see it as my mum used to do that so I'm gonna do it.

Sarah Poynton (54:29.112)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Poynton (54:37.538)
benefit.

Sarah Poynton (54:43.853)
Yeah.

Jenny Drew (54:44.17)
or one puts money in shares or she puts money in crypto or whatever people will be investing in robots or something from the future. You know, be the first person in your group of friends, in your family, whatever to do it and then tell them about it and tell them to read your book and educate themselves and put whatever away a month and it will just filter out like...

Sarah Poynton (54:57.624)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Poynton (55:04.558)
Yeah, it can, the people think that the small amounts won't make a difference, but it makes such a massive difference. It's really important. Okay, so we finish the podcast every time with a question from our previous guest, which I'll ask you in a second. And then we're going to ask you for a question for our next guest. So the question that we have for you is how much money is enough money for you?

Jenny Drew (55:29.26)
Honestly, don't know the answer to this question and I know that there is a thing on your website where you can go and work it out and it tells you and I'm sorry I haven't done it, okay? But I think it changes from like the way I'm thinking of this question is that it is different for every person.

Sarah Poynton (55:35.886)
Hahaha

Yeah

Sarah Poynton (55:45.816)
Yeah.

Sarah Poynton (55:52.097)
Uh-uh.

Jenny Drew (55:53.341)
whether you're wanting to, you know, is this question how much money do I need to baseline survive? Is it how much money do I need to thrive? I'm definitely more of a thriver than a survivor I would say. And so much has changed recently in my life. There's definitely some energetic stuff happening just now. There's a lot of change in the world. There's a lot. The moon is doing some crazy things.

Sarah Poynton (56:14.38)
The moon is giving us grief.

Jenny Drew (56:19.67)
So I don't think I'd even give you a number because I've got the new baby, I've had to step out of the business obviously for a time, so everything is just completely up in the air and I don't actually know the answer to that question because I could give you a number and I'm like, I don't actually know if that's that. That's a rubbish answer to the question, but I just... I don't...

Sarah Poynton (56:45.112)
But what's interesting about this is even though you are super switched on with money, you invest, you invest in quite high risk stuff, you have a lot of fun with your investments now, you've got business that turns over like hundreds of thousands of pounds, like you own property, do, you know, all of these things that you're going on. Most people don't know the answer to that question because most people have never sat and actually thought, well, we're working now, we're doing all these things, but when will we know that we've got to the end goal?

This, mean, the mission of Money Mechanics is ultimately to help people to realize this. Like what is the end North Star that we're aiming for financially so that we know when we can actually retire and be alright. And the formula for this, so you can go and do this after this, whatever you want your annual income to be in retirement. So like, let's say you retired tomorrow and you wanted to live on a hundred grand a year. Yeah. You take a hundred thousand pounds and you times it by 25.

Jenny Drew (57:31.18)
Okay.

Jenny Drew (57:42.604)
Okay.

Sarah Poynton (57:44.05)
and you need that amount of money invested at a minimum of 4 % return a year and that's your North Star, that's your number.

Jenny Drew (57:55.296)
Okay, well that's my homework then, that's the tip.

Sarah Poynton (57:58.413)
So then everybody can say, okay, well, if that's my number.

I know that I need to start working to put that away and whatever investment choices I make, whether it's dividends, whether it's houses, whether it's whatever, every decision I make in my business, if I'm going to sell a business, if every decision I make in my career in terms of wages and bonuses and all these things, everything's coming back to that North Star number. Because until you've got that North Star number invested at 4 % or more a year, you can't withdraw your wages from your investments, which means you need to keep working.

Jenny Drew (58:29.58)
So clever. That's why you're the money mechanics master, Sarah.

Sarah Poynton (58:32.78)
This is it, see? So there you go, now you know, you can work it out.

Jenny Drew (58:35.308)
Yeah, I will work it out and I'll text you later for advice for Penelope and to tell you what my number is.

Sarah Poynton (58:42.208)
yeah we'll figure that out so what is your question for our next guest

Jenny Drew (58:47.306)
Okay so my question I've written down here is if you had to reinvent yourself in a different industry what would that look like? So can't be anything related to what you're doing right now. What would... Yeah. Yes. In different industry what would that look like? Because I think we all daydream about like if I wasn't doing what I'm doing now what would I be doing?

Sarah Poynton (58:56.686)
Okay.

Sarah Poynton (59:01.176)
So if you were to reinvent yourself to do something else like for a living, okay.

What would it do? Great.

Sarah Poynton (59:15.03)
If you weren't doing what you were doing now, what would you do? Yeah, but answer it. Yeah.

Jenny Drew (59:19.934)
me? I would probably... I think I'd go into like a trade. I think I'd be like a plumber or something. Not a plumber, plumber's minging. I would be, sorry plumber's minging. I would be like a carpenter or something. Or I would have started as a carpenter and now would have like a female owned trade. Yeah, that's what I'd do.

Sarah Poynton (59:30.06)
That's cool.

Sarah Poynton (59:45.774)
I mean, you could still do that. You could just buy one of those.

Jenny Drew (59:48.875)
I know but I'm too busy with what I'm doing. Maybe in the future I'll be put... I'm a carpenter now! don't like scales. Scales are not the one so I maybe just have to be the one managing the carpenters.

Sarah Poynton (59:52.706)
That's my love. I look forward to that.

Sarah Poynton (01:00:03.906)
fair. I don't know. I think probably sell ice creams on the beach. Get a tan and sell ice creams to tourists like super cheap. My ear pods in all day walking up and down getting a tan and getting my steps in. Flirting with tourists all day would be great.

Jenny Drew (01:00:05.334)
What are we doing?

Jenny Drew (01:00:09.228)
that's nice.

Jenny Drew (01:00:18.56)
You could retire.

Sarah Poynton (01:00:24.366)
In Ibiza, definitely in Ibiza, there's nowhere else. Or I'd run like a sunbed company on the beaches in Ibiza or something like that where you pay 10 pounds a day to lay off the sand. I've sat on the beach, obviously this won't come as a surprise to you. I've sat on the beach and I've done the numbers of what they make and then times it by how many beaches there are and they make a lot of money.

Jenny Drew (01:00:26.124)
I don't know if you can.

Jenny Drew (01:00:36.213)
Yeah.

Jenny Drew (01:00:46.826)
I feel like they're all run by gathers, are they not?

Sarah Poynton (01:00:49.41)
think they're all drug money laundering type situations because you all pay cash, don't you? So I'm sure that's what it is. But I'm not trying to be a drug dealer. I'm trying to be a legitimate business woman with a good tan and good steps.

Jenny Drew (01:00:51.296)
Yeah.

Jenny Drew (01:01:00.62)
Yeah, no quite that's great. Perfect. Love it.

Sarah Poynton (01:01:05.807)
Something very low pressure is what I think I would probably do.

Jenny Drew (01:01:08.652)
Yeah, that does sound good to be fair. I'd buy an ice cream of you and me each. You could do ice cream and free financial advice with every cone.

Sarah Poynton (01:01:11.54)
It does sound great. I'll see you there.

Sarah Poynton (01:01:17.888)
Yeah, actually, if you took this £2 for this cone and you invested it in the S &P 500, the opportunity cost is, Don't buy this. This is terrible investment. Yeah, don't do it. dear. Okay, so thank you so much for this. It's been a great conversation. Thanks for finding the time around your new little human.

Jenny Drew (01:01:21.964)
You'd convincing people not to buy codes from you every day.

Jenny Drew (01:01:34.188)
You're hot.

I love you.

Jenny Drew (01:01:44.011)
Okay.

Sarah Poynton (01:01:44.302)
I appreciate you loads. It's been fun talking to you about this stuff. I knew it would be as well. If people want to get hold of you or connect with you or talk to you about anything, how can they find you?

Jenny Drew (01:01:52.98)
Instagram probably the best place at Jenny Drew coach And so confident is at so confident so with their own classes you don't have to be in Glasgow because we them online and Worldwide actually we send we ship all over the world for different bits and pieces. So that's all confident or at Jenny Drew coach

Sarah Poynton (01:01:57.602)
Jenny, Drew, Coach, I'll make sure that's all in the links.

Sarah Poynton (01:02:14.708)
And if people want a copy of your book...

Jenny Drew (01:02:16.958)
It's on Amazon, stop playing small. It's a really small read, so if you don't even like reading that much, then it's really quick. if you're like, I don't know how to get started with all this positivity stuff, and that's where you start.

Sarah Poynton (01:02:19.714)
Great.

Sarah Poynton (01:02:30.745)
Great, there you go. Read Jenny's book, because it's as good as my book. Jen, thank you so much. That is us all done. See ya.

Jenny Drew (01:02:36.428)
Thank you for having us. See you later!