phil: You almost got led to

believe it was out of your reach.

And this is one of the things I

try and tell young people now, if

you want to go for it, go for it.

Because when you get to my age and I get

loads of blokes at my age turn around

and go, oh, I wish I'd done selection

when it's too late now you're fat

cunt faces and shit's playing on can.

I've got me fucking hell my half on.

I'm like, chin strap's undo.

And I've got the fucking brigade command.

They give me a fucking two stripes.

He's just ripped off a fell

off of one of the corporals.

I've always said to people, if you

get, if you create a shit sandwich

or you get dealt with shit sandwich,

choke the fucking thing down and

move on because you know what I mean?

Lingering about lifting it up and

smelling it and trying to pick the

pieces out of it ain't gonna work.

alex: Guys, welcome back to another

episode of the Combat Fuel Podcast.

Today we are joined by former PWRR

Soldier and then at the end of his

career, two to SAS, Mr. Big Phil Campion.

Phil, thank you so much for joining us.

Give us a brief

introduction about yourself.

phil: Um, how far back

do you want me to go?

Shall we start at the very beginning?

Shall we, shall we start

at the very beginning?

So, so I was adopted as a child, um, and.

Things, actually things went

wrong from the very beginning.

'cause me old man lost his

job almost on the week that

they picked me up from London.

That, do you know what I mean?

It was like he lost his job and

things spiralled outta control.

He was a drunk as well.

Violent man.

Big, big old geezer, but a violent man

and violent towards his own family.

You know what I mean?

So my early, my early memories of

being a child aren't, aren't brilliant.

They aren't brilliant, but there

were lessons learned as a child.

Do you know what I mean?

So yeah, it was a, it was

a difficult, tough time.

And then, like I say, brought

up, I struggled at school.

I was clever, but I had the attention

span of a, of a goldfish night.

Do you know what I mean?

And just, I was forever just looking out

the window and dreaming of bigger things

and just not, couldn't be interested.

I could never correlate where

being able to add up yeah.

Was gonna ever help me out in life.

That, you know what I mean?

I don't wanna do that.

Do you know what I mean?

alex: Just still remember

algebra from school.

phil: Oh mate, I couldn't do it.

I, so I found out later on, much later

on in the military, I found out that

I'm actually dyslexic with numbers.

alex: Yeah.

phil: So I, what she call it, number

jumble or something like that.

I dunno.

I, I'm like, fuck it.

Do you know what I mean?

I can't read numbers properly.

So I'm like, ugh, what is he?

So you sit there in class and

you didn't know that as a kid.

So you sit there and you can't

work out why you can't do it.

And it's frustrating 'cause

they're all, kids are all coming,

you know, kids are all sat there

and they're like, they're doing,

they're doing their thing and Right.

Yeah.

And they go, right, hold up your answers.

7, 7, 7, 7 14. How the

fuck is that appetite?

Like where did that come from?

And so that's how I felt at

school, you know what I mean?

And then that puts you on the back foot.

Then that gets you, that gets you

sectioned out from the other kids.

Then it, and then before you

know it, you get bullied.

Right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Didn't have a great time at school.

alex: And then if that was, you know, back

in the day, we'll call it without calling

you old like a DH, adhd, having dyslexia.

So anything like that, what was the thing?

Was it,

phil: I would 100% now be on the spectrum

and probably quite a way up it lunch.

Do you know what I mean?

Without doubt, without shadow doubt.

But in the day, yeah.

But we kid.

Yeah.

Naughty kid.

alex: Yeah.

phil: It was just naughty kid.

Yeah.

So you, you sorted that one of

two ways belted or sent home.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Do you know what I mean?

They did, I got caned at school.

Do you know what I mean?

I got ed your hand up and smacked on the,

on the fingers and all that sort of shit.

Do you know what I mean?

So that was your options, you know?

It wasn't, there was no,

there was no looking in or

investigating or thinking why?

It was like, no, no, no.

Sort yourself out or, or do one.

alex: And how, how was like

your physicality at school?

Um, you know, whole life wasn't great.

Is that fair to say?

phil: No, I enjoyed, I enjoyed

being at, I wanted stuff to do.

Do you know what I mean?

I wasn't one of these that was

ever gonna run away from school

because there was nothing to do.

It wasn't go and sit in the park all day.

No, no, no, no, no.

I wanna be there.

I wanna do stuff.

But then when I started doing

stuff outside of anything physical.

I couldn't apply myself.

I was all right at English.

You know what I mean?

I was, I say I had a fairly high IQ

when they tested me eventually, but I

couldn't, I couldn't apply myself in

there and I couldn't find the, and I

think it is, even now when I look at

kids and I think, well, I can fully

understand a kid that can't sit there

like the others 'cause they've got other

things on their mind that is not the kid

being a tw that's the kid just going,

I function differently to these kids.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Do you know what I mean?

There's nothing wrong with that either.

But they're told it's wrong.

Or you were in the day or my

day, you were told that's wrong.

alex: Absolutely.

phil: Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And that ain't wrong.

It just means you are functioning

different to this kid.

alex: Yeah, absolutely.

And it, it, it was, wasn't it?

It was Oh, you were just n

phil: And if you are repeatedly told

that's believe that become, believe.

Well, you know, that's, that's,

that's where you believe you are.

You know, when I was in the children's

home, I was under no illusions.

Especially once the,

the, the abuse started.

I was under no illusions

that I was the scumbag.

You know what I mean?

I was told every day, you are the scumbag.

You the scumbag.

You back your order.

S come back.

alex: What about now looking back

on it, do you still feel that way?

No.

Do you know you understand it?

phil: No.

I understand myself now.

I understand who I am and what

I am and what I'm capable of.

And I've got a res a respect for,

for the wider people as well.

Do you know what I mean?

I understand that everybody should

be treated, you know, you can

judge somebody by how they treat

somebody who can do nothing for them.

alex: Yeah.

phil: You know, those sorts of principles.

I didn't learn those

principles as a child.

'cause I wasn't taught

'em, I wasn't shown them.

I found them out through a lifetime of

poking about and getting things wrong.

alex: Yeah.

phil: You know what I mean?

Because I have done as an old, you know

alex: Yeah.

But found, found out your own way.

phil: Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I found around, I never had that, I never

had that role model when I was a kid.

Yeah.

So I never had, you know, my father

figure was an absolute drunk who, who

smashed me up and smashed my mother up.

School teachers were what they were,

but they weren't what I wanted to be.

And in some respects, in many respects,

I looked at them as something that

I would never want to be even.

Do you know what I mean?

I looked at school teachers

genuinely as people who spent

their whole life in school.

'cause they don't, they,

they go to school, they go to

college, they go back to school.

Yeah,

fuck off.

I don't wanna do that.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, exactly.

I don't wanna do that.

Do you know what I mean?

I want to get out and, you know, I knew

that there was other stuff out there.

I just didn't know how I could, I

mean, I wanted to be a footballer

like every kid, you know what I mean?

And I could have played for

England, but I was, shit.

I love that.

So, yeah, you, you know, you're driven by,

by your own capabilities in that respect.

But I, I did realise that I

wasn't, I wasn't gonna be doing

what other people were doing.

I didn't wanna do what

other people were doing.

You know, I never have wanted to

do what other people are doing.

I wanna do what I wanna do.

alex: Love it.

When you, so you were adopted?

phil: Yes.

alex: Did you know you were adopted from

phil: a age?

Always told.

Always told From the, from

the, the earliest of earnest.

I remember my mum explaining it to me.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, this is mommy, this is daddy,

this is how it works for you.

That was mommy and that was daddy.

But we are looking after you.

Do you know what I mean?

So I always remember those

sorts of conversations.

alex: Yeah.

Uh, did you still get to see

your, your biological mum and dad?

phil: I did meet them, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Years later.

As a bizarre story.

My, my then wife went searching for it.

I, I couldn't be bothered.

I genuinely was, couldn't

lesser give a shit.

I genuinely was like, nah, don't care.

They didn't want me, I don't

want nothing to do with them.

Right.

Yeah.

My then partner.

When, well, you know, we've got kids.

What happens if, you know, they're,

there's some sort of hideous

hereditary disease that you've got

that you're just gonna pile in.

We need to know who they

are and what they are.

And I was like, well, you've got, you

wanna find them, that's what you've gotta

do then, because I couldn't be bothered.

Yeah.

And it was the weekend

I got badged at Herford.

I came home and she went,

I've got a number in London.

I think it might be your mum.

Fuck.

How does my dad still going?

A drummer fucking, yeah.

Really?

Got up in the morning.

She's still poking at me.

So I went and phoned his number up

and it was, it was my mother, it

was my wife, it was my grandmother.

And I went, we just dropped everything,

got in the car, drove up to London, and

I met my whole family this same weekend.

I got badge.

It was fucking bizarre.

alex: I bet.

phil: Absolutely Bizarre Brothers.

Jimmy White snooker player was there.

I was like, yeah, that's your uncle.

Do you know I'm fucking hell yeah.

Mad

alex: a little bit.

Look at me, look what I've achieved.

Just badgeing the,

phil: I I didn't make a big deal of it.

But then, you know, they'd going, oh, I in

the Army, I've just been b in the S sas.

I'm like, fuck off, you know?

Got the balcony idiot.

Oh, Jesus course.

She's a war,

right?

Oh yeah.

So, yeah.

And it was bonkers.

It was genuinely bonkers.

I think Jimmy never believed that I

was in the regiment until I picked

him up one day in a Range Rover and

I had the blue lights and the grill.

Yeah.

I fucking blue light him through

London in his fucking Range Rover.

And when I got to his house, I had been

Kit in the back and I got all the fucking

guns out that in his fucking, in his

front room, that fucking kids walk around

there be fives in the front room and that

alex: Oh, mate.

phil: Yeah.

alex: Stories.

phil: It was funny.

alex: Did he believe you then?

phil: Yeah, he didn't believe me.

Then he fucking, oh, fucking hell.

What's he got?

What's in that bag?

What's in that bag?

alex: Oh, mate, that's brilliant.

Yeah.

But, um, but I forward him back then, um,

rewinding, should I say, so before that

anything that was military or anything

in SSU were a kid that was like not

doing great at school, that naughty kid.

What, what was your driving

factor to want to join the, the

military in the first place?

phil: Um, do you know what, I didn't,

I didn't really think about it.

So when I got exp I got expelled

from my comprehensive, and

they did an IQ test on me.

They sent me to this posh boarding

school up in Oxford, and they

paid for it, but I got bullied

there because I was the poor kid.

Like, do you know what I mean?

I genuinely got bullied there

and I didn't, didn't like it.

Anyway, I got, I ended

up getting thrown out.

They expelled me.

I've, I've got, I've smashed someone up

and they, they, they, they expelled me.

Um, but the only thing at that school

where I felt that everybody was the same

was the CCF F because in fact I felt, I

felt more than the same because some of

these people weren't as fit as what I was.

I was always, I've

always, always been fit.

Okay.

Always, always been able to move

around and I've always been fit.

So as a kid, that was

massively importance.

So as soon as you put that green

uniform on, you were all the same.

Yeah.

One of the biggest bullying factors for

me in that school was the fact that they

all had like their TA trousers tailored

and I couldn't afford it, so I just added

another cane, fucking great big bell

bonds, you know, I mean the right type big

colours on me and you know what I mean?

And I just had what they was given.

Yeah.

And they all had this stuff

that they bought themselves.

So that was, there was none of

that in the, in, in the ccf.

You go to the store, you get given the

same odd, same jumper as everybody else.

You've got the same parties, you've

got the same, and you know, all of

a sudden you, you are all the same.

So then the standout thing for me was

all unfit than you, you know what I mean?

And I can do this and I can crawl about

all day, and I'm actually enjoying myself.

Yeah.

So the CCF F was massive for me at

that school, because that was the

only place, other than the football

pitch where I felt, and even on the

football pitch, I couldn't afford the,

the boots that everybody else had.

Do you know what I mean?

But it was the only place where everybody

was the same, you know what I mean?

In fact, for me, it, it drove me over

and above other people because I was fit.

So I could, I could assimilate.

I wasn't bothered about, oh,

we're gonna go and do this today.

That's great because I love walking

however many miles we're gonna do.

Didn't care.

So that was a great, but I didn't

think about that for years.

And I, when I left that school, you

know, I thought all my dreams of

joining the army had disappeared

and all that sort of stuff.

And it wasn't until I did

A-C-C-F-A-A, um, a, I was working

on that, what, what was it called?

The YTS Youth Training Scheme.

That at the end, when that came to an

end, the guy that was running, it was

an ex admiral or something in the Navy.

And he said to me, look,

I ain't got a job for you.

He said, you, you know,

he got no qualifications.

I had a cycle proficiency

and I took that twice.

You know what I mean?

He goes, you need qualifications

to do what you wanna do.

And I said, well.

What am I gonna do?

And he said, well, you've

thought about joining the army.

And all of a sudden it

sort of like a light bulb.

I was like, dang.

Yeah, actually I have, yeah.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Obviously I wasn't gonna be joining

as an officer as I had sort of like

wanted to when I was in the public school.

But this wasn't about that.

He, he, he said, well, let's, he couldn't

get outta the career office quick enough.

He's like, get down there.

He bloody like, you know what mean?

And I went down there, Grenadier guard

was in there, big old fella talked to

me about the guards and nothing else.

And I'm like, well, I don't

fancy the guards, to be honest.

I couldn't tell him 'cause he'd

the fucking, I'm not fuck at all.

Anyway, I thought, no, I don't

fancy that 'cause that's, I I

just didn't fancy the guards.

And then there was been a programme

about the parachute regimen on, and

I thought right there, left there

telling Paris, I didn't even know

what they were really, I was right.

Parachute regiment.

So they sent me away, did Sutton

Coalfield, passed all my tests, um, got

back to him and he went, if you wanna

join the parachute regiment, he said,

it's, there's a six one waiting list.

He said, however, and they must

have been a recruiting drive

into the county regiments.

He went, however, if you wanna be a

royal Amster, you can go next week.

I'm not fucking Roy.

I'm sure I'm then, you know what I mean?

I'll see you later.

I'm off.

Do you know what I mean?

Cheers.

That and that was it.

That that was me gone.

Yeah.

And it, the whole process

didn't take too long at all.

So really I wasn't left in that

sort of like thing in C street

where I had nothing to do.

alex: Yeah.

' phil: cause that would've been

disastrous for me because I,

alex: to take note, that's how I used

to recruit people in, done none of this.

Yeah.

18 month.

phil: Yeah.

Absolutely.

Can put a tight note.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Go and speak to an actual

person behind an actual desk.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Do you know what I mean?

Who's

alex: actually serving?

phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, and something Yeah, yeah,

alex: yeah.

phil: Who understands and, and looks at

you and can answer your questions and you

alex: don't get a

phil: bot and you don't

have to fill things

alex: in you Yeah.

And a good judge of

character, aren't they?

You know, it's,

phil: yeah.

alex: Yeah.

Actually you will.

And, and,

phil: and they handle expectation as well.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah,

alex: absolutely.

phil: If I'd have told him

helicopter pilot, he'd have laughed.

Do you know?

I mean,

alex: I did mate.

I went Army careers officer,

I wanna fly flights.

And they were like,

this is the Army.

phil: Yeah, no, you

alex: still isn't it?

phil: Yeah.

alex: Not, he is like,

I'm big infantry suit you.

Well mate,

phil: go my friend.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that was me.

So like that, that's, that,

that's basically how I ended

up in the military because.

I say just one light bulb, but

I hadn't even thought about it.

alex: Yeah.

And then you were two weeks later

and you were off the training?

phil: Yeah.

Yeah.

More or less.

Well, it was a little bit longer than

that, but what was literally flashed a

bang was like lit the touch paper down

at the career's office, boom before.

And I'm on the train and I'm off

top to Litchfield and I'm on the

platform with everybody else.

Yeah.

Being picked up in a four tunnel,

alex: you still remember

your first day there

phil: rocking up?

I remember.

I remember.

I remember it for a really sad

reason because I'd been sexually

abused and the sexually abuser had

followed me in the city street.

So everywhere I fucking went,

this fucking lunatic turned up.

Do you know what I mean?

It was creepy.

It was fucking horrible.

And although the abuse stopped,

it was always on the fringe of

if he could have fucking got hold

of it, he would've done luck.

Do you know what I mean?

So I'm like, Jesus Christ.

And I remember as I got on the

back of this full tunnel, didn't

really think too much about it.

I'm chatting to a lad, still a mate of

my, now Andy, I was speaking to Andy,

we're chatting away on the full tunnel.

He had this stupid pineapple air, and

I'm fucking laughing 'cause I go, that's

that's fucking coming straight off you.

He died it red the fucking deal.

I'm like that, that's coming

off you fucking idiot.

You know what I mean?

And we was laughing about it and I

remember we turned, the truck slowed

and we turned the gun into the camp.

I remember stopping sort like after out

the canvas and I see the gate go up and

it just had a fucking mental moment.

I thought when I get the other

side of that gate, they're

gonna shut that no K can get me.

That fucking pedo.

Yeah.

He's gone.

He can't go on here.

And for the first time in my life

I thought, I'm safe now and I can

actually apply myself and do do what

I want do, do you know what I mean?

Without fear of people fucking chasing me.

Do you know what I mean?

So that was it.

So I, I felt completely safe.

So it was a really big thing for me.

And then the second thing I

noticed as I looked around camp,

we, how fucking clean it was.

Yeah.

And I thought, this

camp don't clean itself.

That's my fucking job.

Do you

alex: That's some high

IQ stuff there, mate.

Like Yeah.

Don't clean itself.

phil: Looking at the

womba shells like that.

Not knowing that, you know,

we were above my one day.

alex: Oh mate.

phil: Yeah.

We pulled up, I remember.

And that's from then on, I

remember all these other people.

'cause I was already in

a way institutionalised.

So all the problems that other people had,

like, oh, I don't wanna be away from home.

And there was a few lads, you know,

I'm quite upset about not going

home and all that sort of thing.

I can't give a fuck.

I just wanted next day to come like that.

Yes.

Next day, let's do something else.

Come on Roo, let's go.

You know what I mean?

I loved it.

I absolutely fucking loved it.

alex: Oh, brilliant.

Do you remember the day

you got your uniform?

phil: I remember the day I got my uniform.

I remember the smell of

the fucking store room.

Yeah.

As you went in there.

Like, do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And I remember all these bags.

Just know all your stuff was in bags.

In bags, you know what I mean?

And you could put another bag in bags,

like fucking walking out it like that.

Do you know what I mean?

Then going back to the room, unpacking

it all and looking at it going,

fuck, you know, it's all mine.

alex: It's a big moment, isn't it?

When you see that green

kit and you're like

phil: in your boots and it's, oh

alex: wow, this is,

phil: this

alex: is mine.

This is like,

phil: yeah,

alex: I've earned my place to be here.

Yeah.

Even though that's only

trainers, it's surreal, isn't it?

phil: It's crazy, isn't it?

It's crazy.

I loved it.

I, it's a whole thing for me.

The whole, I remember going down, it's

so on about the second day, I think

you went down and there was the geezer

there used to cut everybody's air.

alex: Yeah, yeah.

phil: Richest man in the world.

Like, do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Driving a jack and that,

you know what I mean?

Fucking everybody, everybody gets

the same fucking haircut cut.

Yeah.

And then everybody buys the same soap.

There's the same boot brushes.

Even though he was told

to bring all that stuff.

Yeah.

You buy, look, there you go, there stuff.

Right.

That's no good to you.

That stuff, that's,

that's the stuff you need.

Know what?

Yeah.

And you got no choice but buy,

you signed for it, didn't you?

alex: Yeah.

phil: You got an AR payment?

Yeah.

Fuck you.

Hell yeah.

It was crazy.

alex: Oh, but I need a new

business venture though, don't we

phil: mate?

We need to be on the camp.

I do.

You know what?

On a serious note, I have said that,

and I, I said this at the highest

fucking level in the, in the military.

Those fucking shops that

they've got on camp now.

Rip the fucking blokes off.

Yeah.

You've got wives feeding out fucking

food banks and these fucking greedy

bastard shops are charging over the

fucking odds because we've got a fucking

location, which is hard to get to.

No, you've got a fucking prime location

where if it's fucking treated properly,

you've got an relented fucking pursuit

of fucking people coming through there.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

So you've greedy bastards and I,

and I spoke to, I spoke to the

army field type major about it.

Right?

And he went, yeah, it's fucking

seven pound for a cup of coffee.

I said, I dunno what we can do about it.

You are the fucking people

that can do something about it.

Yeah.

You're one the ones that can do something

next time that their fucking tender

comes, that makes sure that the people

that go in there are fucking competitive.

What can fuck off that?

You know what I mean?

So if you listen in, that's it.

Get those greedy bastard spa shops

and all the rest of it out there.

And that's litigating against spa.

I'm sorry.

Right.

But it's right, isn't it?

Do you know what I mean?

It's, it's greedy.

Greedy bastards.

alex: Yeah.

How many times we've not had contracts

go through or we've lost stuff.

phil: And you know what?

From a PRS per perspective for the

lads, if they knew that, that the army

had basically fucking gone, right.

I'll tell you what, we've done this,

we've, we've managed to get you a

decent deal in the fucking shop.

What a coup for the fucking lad.

Like, do you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

What a fucking coup What an easy win.

alex: Yeah.

phil: What a fucking

retention, fucking trap.

You know what I mean?

alex: To be like,

phil: we made your life a bit easier,

alex: but

phil: your wife ain't gotta

go to a food bank now.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Fucking now,

alex: but we'll stick to, so

phil: anyway.

Yeah.

Sorry.

Yeah.

I was just five

alex: pound flapjacks

in there and Yeah, it's,

phil: mate, it's bullshit.

It's absolute bullshit.

Yeah.

I've, I've even thought about.

Setting up a mobile fucking

shop that just undercuts and

they just go park it outside.

Oh, I go park it outside

the fucking place.

You know what I mean?

There you go.

Loaves of bread in here.

50 P in there.

Pound 80.

There you go.

In New York all day long.

You know what I mean?

Clean up, wouldn't you?

alex: Yeah.

Oh mate.

Hard.

Well, we had it.

No one wanted to buy a shopping

there, had the fallout.

Well, screws marched as our car

down to the local tecos and we

went and did our shopping there.

They're brilliant.

Yeah.

They put us first and we're like, you

know, young lad, I dunno what money is.

Cheers.

That's, that's wage.

phil: Yeah.

alex: Like 800 pound a month.

Cheers, mate.

That's

phil: yeah.

Good money.

Did you, did you still used to

get credits in that at the end

of your, so you got credits?

So we got paid cash.

alex: Yeah, we got paid cash.

phil: Yeah.

Started, you got paid cash with the march.

Didn't fucking brut

give you fucking money?

Like, do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

But at the end of the time, 'cause

they only gave you a certain amount.

Did so at the end of your training

alex: Yeah.

phil: You had a little bit, didn't you?

alex: Yeah.

phil: Which I went straight down my

neck the first time went on leave.

alex: Yeah.

But as soon when you got no money

and then you suddenly got money

and freedom and no expenses.

No expenses.

Why would you,

phil: that's another thing that

alex: you have.

You've got, you're the

richest man in the world.

phil: Yeah.

alex: It's, yeah.

phil: All your food was taken care of.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Accommodation.

I mean, for me it was great 'cause I,

in that period that I'd been a c the

two years that I'd sort, I'd done the

YTSI mate, I used to fucking, I used to

sneak into allotments and steal potatoes

because I, I just didn't have the money.

Do you know what I mean?

It didn't have the money.

I still wanted to go out.

So you have, so the sacrifice was,

well, I can get potatoes there.

I'd live on fucking chips.

I Yeah.

Stolen potatoes.

Yeah.

But now I'm getting fed three times a day.

alex: Yeah.

Do you

phil: know what I mean?

And all, sometimes you only get

enough time to put it in a piece

of bread and ran down a clacker.

But that's fine, mate.

Yeah.

I didn't care.

Yeah.

I thought it was great.

alex: That's brilliant.

phil: Fed three times a day.

Fucking hell.

alex: How does your screws find you?

Like in training?

Um, this guy that's like,

there, why are you so happy?

Why are you

phil: doing, I dunno.

Yeah.

I, I, I, I, you know what?

I've just, I gravitate.

So the guy that was deemed as the

worst person to have a guy called

Vern, 'cause everyone else was

pretty chill compared with Vern.

I was in Vern's section

life, you know what I mean?

But it did me the biggest favours.

'cause Vern was, and, and I know

Vern now, he, he ended up as a

colonel in the Australian army.

And I, I would tell anybody alive that

he was, he became my role model in life

because I'd never seen a man before.

alex: Yeah.

phil: My old man wasn't a man.

He was a big fat bully.

Do you know what I mean?

The school teachers I've come

across, well they weren't men.

Even the guy at Cal Shop, when

he gave me the, the opportunity

to go and join the Army, he was

like an a, he, he wasn't like me.

So this guy, he, this was

achievable to me because I looked

at him, he was a full screw.

He had a military medal, had been flat

backing people in Northern Ireland.

Absolute fucking legend.

Loads of war stories,

you know what I mean?

And he was fucking hard as fuck.

And I thought, I wanna be like you

because he was fair as fuck as well.

Do you know what I mean?

If you were, if you were good,

you got a pat on the back.

If you was fucking bad,

you got a pat in the face.

You know what I mean?

So simple as that.

Do you know what I mean?

And you knew where you

stood with his case.

Yeah.

You absolutely knew where you stood.

He was a fucking great guy.

He really was.

And I still say, if he walked

in now, I'd probably stand up.

Like, I mean, because that's

the impact he had on me.

And I just wanted to be like him.

I looked at him, he was a Stafford.

He, like I say, he'd done loads of stuff.

He wasn't feared by people, but

they knew where they stood with him.

And I, when I ever told it, I thought,

fuck, I wanna be like him, judge.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

He was a fucking geezer, A proper geezer.

The first, I, I always say he was the

first man I ever met, or the first man

that I ever sort of like had contact

with and, and sort of like wanted to

become like, do you know what I mean?

Because he was, he was

everything a soldier should be.

He was a good soldier.

He was a fair man.

And like I say, if you fucked up, you

got fucking, you got Pat somewhere else.

You know what I mean?

That's how he was, that's how he operated.

You knew where you stood

alex: and arguably how the

army should be, you know?

phil: I think that's

exactly how it should be.

alex: It drills you into right place,

right time, right kit, doesn't it?

You know?

Yeah.

You understand discipline.

You learn your place and

it makes good soldiers.

Yeah.

phil: Yeah.

And I, I did have a roll around with,

with, with Vern on one occasion.

'cause I fucking, I absolutely carted

him off and he'd come fucking weighing

into me like, do you know what I mean?

And I remember fucking, I'd done like

this little sort of like half hip pro

on him, like, you know what I mean?

From the days.

And I did judo and he went, he went

over, but he fucking pulled me over

and like the screws pulled him off me.

Like, you know, I started

walking off and I ran off.

I was, it's the only time I, I

tried to, I was trying to phone my

fucking sister, my adopted sister.

I was like, come and get me.

Like, come and get me.

I've gotta get outta here.

Like, know what I mean?

I was like, and I fucking

cried my eyes out.

I was like, oh no, I

fucking, I fucked it off.

But he was so, he come back,

he'd come back, fair plate here.

He went fucking stood your ground.

You know what I mean?

But then he saw we were too far.

Yeah.

I like, oh god.

So I got the payback for it.

Yeah.

alex: What was the outcome from that?

What happened?

phil: Just a massive boin.

Yeah.

Massive boin.

You know, you are the one who's

gonna be carrying the tear and

picking everything up for a few days.

And it was dusty, it was done, it

was spent, do you know what I mean?

It didn't linger on, it didn't sort

like bring it up at every opportunity.

Yeah.

Certainly didn't.

Brilliant leadership.

Yeah, absolutely.

What of fucking proper keys?

That army?

Yeah,

alex: absolutely.

phil: Yeah.

alex: Well, Chuck, because some,

some would use that against you.

Like, oh, you got a one up on me.

Your

phil: No, you absolutely fair.

You know, to the point that I think

he almost admired me for standing

my ground, the point that I did.

Like, you know what I mean?

I was like, fuck you,

do you know what I mean?

I'm like, no, no, no,

I'm right on this one.

And what it was, well, I'll

tell, I can tell you, I can tell

you what the argument was now.

Right.

So we'd done this run right.

With belt kit on.

alex: Yeah.

phil: And when I came back, I picked

up his skillet arms weapon, which was

obviously lighter than his running weapon,

but I thought it was his running weapon.

So I went fucking, oh lads,

look at this fucking shit.

Anyway, he went fucking mad.

He went absolutely fucking mad.

But in my own mind I was like, no, no, no.

'cause I genuinely thought he'd

run in this set of webinar because

they looked fairly similar.

Yeah.

So I'm fucking going, no, no, no, no, no.

He fucking black.

So he's, anyway, I'll tell you

what the punishment was now.

And I remember it, it lit. So

the punishment was, he gave me

his webbing, his running webbing,

which weighed more than mine.

It genuinely did weigh more than mine.

And he went, no, fuck it.

He goes, you are around that fucking

square till you drop, you tw you what?

I mean.

And I,

he was barking from the middle

going, I'm like, just weapon on.

And it didn't fit me because

he was a lot bigger than me.

Like, do you like me?

So it was slopping the about me back.

I'm not fucking up.

And he kept me going around this square.

Do you know what I mean?

Until I fucking, until I fuck.

Oh, sorry mate.

I done.

Yeah.

It was funny.

Yeah.

Fucking great bloke.

And, but it was done.

It was spent That was it done.

Right.

Get yourself away.

alex: Yeah.

phil: You know what I mean?

That was it.

Done.

Mentioned it

alex: again, how relationship

with him after that,

phil: fine,

alex: back to normal,

phil: just went back to normal.

Just went about to how it was,

you've done your, you, you've

fucked up, you've done your time.

You now, now you fucking now

crack on tomorrow's another day.

That's, have

alex: you got any more

good stories from training?

phil: Um, I, the one that I do had to

beat was I got, I got best improved

recruit, but it was only a couple of

years ago that somebody pointed out

to me that, oh, that, that basically

means you was a wanker when you turned

up and they got you over the line nut.

You know what I mean?

I was devastated.

I thought, I've done really well.

You were

alex: living it.

Yeah.

phil: No, no, no, mate.

You were,

alex: you bit,

we got you through just

phil: by ourselves.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now I enjoy training, like I say,

and I just, I have good memories

of what we did and you know,

we had some great nights out.

We used to go down to Tamworth.

Yeah.

And we, there used to be these bottles

of like, I don't even know what it was.

It was called Thunderbirds and they

were big old bottles and you used to

drink these bottles of Thunderbird.

I used to get so drunk.

It was unbelievable.

And you turn back, back at camp

and you, you didn't care, did you?

alex: No.

phil: You know what I mean?

No.

You'd come back to camp.

Oh, absolutely.

All over the place at four o'clock

in the morning and then the

next day you'd be, you'd be out

doing whatever you were doing.

alex: Fittest, alcoholics on the planet.

phil: Yeah.

Yeah.

It was insane.

Quite far.

And it was almost encouraged.

Do you know what I mean?

Are you still in camp?

Why are you not down?

Yeah,

alex: yeah.

phil: You know?

Yeah,

alex: absolutely.

phil: Smoke breaks as well.

Yeah.

Smoke ing everywhere.

I smoked loads as a kid,

like, you know what I mean?

It was one of my sort like coping

factors, you know what I mean?

I used to always smoke.

alex: And

phil: it was crazy.

And he was encouraged to smoke.

Everything was a smoke, wasn't it?

alex: Yeah.

How

phil: you go for a smoke, then

you go for a smoke, well goes

five minutes, have a quick smoke.

You know what I mean?

That was it wasn't it?

alex: Yeah, it was.

phil: That's how it worked.

alex: And it was, yeah.

The amount, the, the last use to

smoke and drink and to still be

able to perform the next day was

phil: wait when?

I think it was when I think how

fit I was, you know, pre-selection

where I could do a Breen two miler

in about 12 and a half minutes and

you know, I smoked and drank then.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

And I could probably smoke and drink

the night before I did that as well.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

I was literally take off with my

kit on, my boots on and my rifle

or my helmet and be 12 and a half

minutes for two miles, well gone.

So you like, you know what I mean?

alex: Powerful.

That is

phil: fit as a butcher's dog.

alex: You remember the day

you passed out training?

phil: Yeah.

Yeah.

I didn't have, so I had a sort

of like a, a girlfriend on the go

at the time and she came up with

her mother and father I think.

So I, I didn't have any

family there because Yeah.

I didn't have anyone like that.

Um,

alex: you adopted parents

didn't, didn't come down for it.

phil: You know, I think my adopted

mother turned up, but I didn't

really, I still didn't really

massively get on with her then.

Do you know what I mean?

It was funny.

Yeah.

She, I think they brought her

and then they left and I went, I,

I went, I made my own way home.

'cause they, they had, they only

had room in the car for them, so

they turned up, I said best improved

recruit and all that sort of stuff.

And I remember you had to march out.

Oh.

Fucked up.

Me salute.

Like, you know what I mean?

I was like, yeah, generally that's,

that cemented the fucking deal.

He definitely is a ker luck.

Yeah, it was funny.

Yeah.

alex: Oh, brilliant mate.

phil: And that was it.

And I, I, yeah, you got your

photographs, didn't you?

You got your photographs stuffed

your thing and off you went.

And I went back to, I went

back to this girl's house.

'cause I didn't have anywhere to

live at the time, really, other

than my mother's house, which was, I

didn't wanna go to my mother's house.

I went at this girl's house with my

sausage bag and my fucking green bag

and my fucking photographs and all that

sort of stuff, you know what I mean?

Pitched up at her house, rearranged

my kit, went to Tidworth.

That was it.

We went, I remember the first

day turning up at Tidworth and I

got a boken straight off the bat.

I got a boan 'cause they

was having a must parade.

And they said, right, you are

falling after the must parade.

So I thought, oh fuck that.

I'm going around the

back for a smoke then.

So I went around the back for a smoke.

I'm having a smoke.

Fuck me.

Then someone comes around and said, no,

you should have been on the must parade.

Then I got a Bolic 19 on my first day.

First day

alex: of

phil: the first day got screamed at.

And I remember there was a storeman

called Dobbing and he was called Dobbing.

'cause he was fucking, he

looked like a fucking horse.

And he was huge.

And he was built like a fucking,

he could fucking lift MFO boxes and

throw him like, you know what I mean?

And he was like a, he was like a

20-year-old, a 20 year Lance Jack.

Like, do you know what I mean?

He'd never gone anywhere.

But everybody respected Dobbing,

like, you know what I mean?

And Dobbing got me in the story, went,

mark know you're a fucking idiot.

You know?

He goes, right, screw the fuck in nut.

He goes, I'll, I'll, I'll screw

it over for you with Gilly,

who was my platoon sergeant.

Yeah, he was right.

Dobbing Dubb

alex: was that again?

Put to bed after that then

like turn out Batalion.

Yeah.

Pretty

phil: much

alex: dubbing on you must.

Yeah,

phil: pretty much.

We had, yeah, battalion

Battalion was, we didn't have a

lot on, they'd just come back.

It was, it was a weird

time for me to join.

So they literally just done a

tour of Northern Ireland and

it had been quite a busy tour.

It was down in, um, south Amar.

So it was, it was band at Country Luck.

Do you know what I mean?

So everybody thought there was fucking

alley as fuck up, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And you turn up and of course you are the

only one who, they are the medals parade.

You don't get a medal,

you know what I mean?

Everybody's got a medal apart from you.

Like fucking out, you know?

It's worked up.

alex: Just, just remind

us, uh, what year this was

phil: 87 I 87 or eight?

Eight.

Yeah.

It 87.

It would've been 87.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

Everybody had a medal.

I never, and every

conversation was anyway.

Uh, anyway.

Show because you got a medal.

Yeah.

Fuck.

Leave me alone.

alex: Character builders.

phil: Yeah.

And we had, so we was in Tidworth

at the time, and I remember you

had the Queen's barracks here and

you had us here, and it was a park.

Went down to the spa shop and used to

get sent every day down to the spa shop.

And the queens lads used to fucking

plink you with fucking air rifles.

As you run down the thing like, you

know, mean literally is a fucking

hard target to the fucking shop to

do the bun run every fucking day.

Like, you know what I mean?

Fucking my platoon starts gi

sort off for getting there.

I tell and they go, can't be right bun.

Run fucking off you go.

Like, you know what I mean?

Get all the fucking Yeah.

Get, get all your money

and go and pay for it.

Like, you know what I mean?

alex: Yeah, yeah.

Literally.

Yeah.

If you go pick up my food

and bring me my change.

phil: Yeah.

alex: Oh, C didn't give me any money.

phil: Yeah.

Well, still there.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

Well, yeah.

But no, it was good.

We didn't do a lot in those early days.

Northern Ireland was looming two

year tour in Northern Ireland.

Uh, coming up in London, der in between

time we did an exercise in Kenya.

We did an exercise in Denmark.

Um, we did the firefighting thing down

in fucking, um, down in South Wales.

We went, took over from the firefighters.

We went on strike joke, absolute joke.

Cut the just battalion life then.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

There wasn't, there wasn't loads on,

but there was always something coming.

alex: Yeah.

And enjoying life still in the army now.

phil: Yeah, it was all right.

I enjoyed it.

Rifle company was, I, I never,

I didn't wanna be anything

other than a rifle company.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Didn't even really

particularly want rank cover.

I liked, you know what I mean?

I just, I just, I liked it.

The rifle company.

I liked being a soldier and I like

just fucking, do you know what I mean?

You enjoyed it.

It was alright.

alex: But you, you did start

getting rank and you started

phil: Yeah, well, I lost the,

I lost it the first time.

I've been busted from, I think full scoot

to Tom twice or something like that.

I, yeah, yeah.

So I, yeah, my, my, my, my

stripes always went on Velcro.

Like, do you know what I mean?

They never stayed up for long.

alex: First time you got

busted, what happened?

phil: Um, the first time I got

bused was for fighting downtown.

The, the, the, the one, the, the,

the story of the busting that

really was full screw to Tom was

I was in the Falkland Islands and.

We basically were doing

like a, a Mont tour there.

And on the first day I got there,

I got steaming at the Nafi.

And it, it, there's a series

of corridors to go back to.

The, the main building is like a

series of corridors so you don't

have to go outside because it's cold.

So there's like miles and

miles of these corridors.

And I was steaming and I got

lost in the corridors on the way

back to where, to where we lived.

And sort of like the further down

you go, the worse it gets and the

inventory are right down the bottom.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

You, you'd almost be advised to

go down there in pairs that do,

you know, I mean, it's ridiculous.

So I remember I pissed in the

corridor and I got caught by this

RMP or REF Copper, I think he was.

And I thought, all right, fair cop.

Nice one.

I'll go and get 'em up and clean it up.

No, you won't.

I'm charging you.

I said, what the fuck

are you charging me for?

I, I mean, why, why would you charge

me when I've offered to clean it up?

No, no, no, no, no.

So I've got fine, 500 pound.

So I had the fucking up from day one

with his, with his, with his keys.

Alright.

And, uh, anyway.

Now used to be a little

nightclub called Timmy's, and

we went to Timmy's for a drink.

And I stood outside in the queue

and it was, there was a fucking

guy in front of me pissing around.

And I knew he wasn't gonna get in because

he was too drunk and he was just annoying

everybody, like, do you know what I mean?

So eventually it got to the stage where

he is turned around and said something to

me and I red butted him, bumped straight

and bang, have that someone screamed.

The police have turned up because

they were never far 'cause

it was only a small place.

alex: Yeah,

phil: the police have turned up.

Hey Presto, it's the same geezer

that lifted me for having a piss.

So I'm on the back foot straight

away going, Hey, fuck it.

You know what I mean?

I, I, anyway, so he's, they said

to me, right, get in the vehicle.

And they kept trying to push me about,

and I said, right, leave me alone and I'll

get in your van and you can lock me up.

Do what you gotta do,

but just leave me alone.

Don't touch me.

Leave me alone.

So eventually I get in the van,

I'm sat in the back of the van.

As we get out the van

again, he goes to touch me.

I said, don't touch me.

I'll go in your interview room.

Just leave me alone.

Right.

I get out, I walked in interview and

as I walked in the interview room, he

like pushed me and there was a chair,

there was a desk and there was a chair

in front of it and a chair behind.

And as he pushed me, I fucking

landed on the shower, picked,

picked the chair straight up, boom.

Have that get out, looked at the

right behind the desk, went to

go around the back of the desk.

He's already gone.

He is like, no, I'm not having this right.

See what I mean?

So as he's gone out the

door, I've locked it, right?

So now I'm in there,

I'm in their duty room.

I've locked the door, right?

Yeah.

I've locked the door.

I'm like, alright, fuck this desk

straight up against the fucking door.

Right?

Okay.

Then I'm sort of like, there

was a weapons cabinet in there.

I'm, I'm, I'm thinking to myself,

I've got arm myself, got army self

stand in, I've fucking locked test.

Alright.

I've got, I've got, anyway.

Couldn't open the fucking

thing for the weapons.

I'm like fucking their mine.

Anyway, so I then start rooting about, for

something to defend myself with, right?

Because

alex: I wire a little bit closer, Phil.

phil: Sorry.

I then start rooting about for

something to defending myself with.

'cause in my own mind, they're

gonna come in, they're gonna

come in more bandage, right?

alex: Yeah.

phil: So there's like a hanger thing.

There's like a thing where they've

obviously put their jackets during the day

and there's a lot of wire coat hangers.

So I get these wire coat hangers and I'm

wrapping 'em around my hands with like

little spikes hanging out each ends.

I've got these on my hands, right?

And, uh, I then get the chair and I

sat there in the, in the meantime,

I've pissed on their occurrence book.

I, I'm fucking, I'm smoking, I'm fucking

flicking ass all over the fucking place.

They're looking in through the

windows going, no, come on, come on.

Fucking private.

Get yourself out there.

You, you're in like, yeah, yeah.

I, I was a force group.

They're, go get yourself

outta there, corporal.

You know what I mean?

You're in trouble now, but you,

you know, we can all be sorted.

I'm going, nah, fuck, I fucked up.

Tell me that.

Anyway, I keep, I keep their

duty room under my control.

Till about fucking seven o'clock

in the morning, all fucking night.

Why do I, how

alex: how did you go in there?

phil: Oh, fucking know.

It was, it was about, it would've

been about 10 o'clock at night.

So I'm in control.

Eventually they go away and there

was a, there was a, a raw marine

left tenant attached to us, and

I got on quite well with him.

So they must have thought,

right, who's gonna sort this out?

He came down, he's like, oh,

here's this tap on the window,

Phil, you've had your fun.

Do you know what I mean?

It's about time.

I said, I said, I said, I'm not

coming out, sir. I said, I said,

they're gonna have me if I come out.

He said, no one's gonna.

Yeah.

He said, no one's gonna have you.

He says, we're gonna remove you

from here and we're gonna take you

down to a place called May Harbour.

So I said, right.

So long as these cunts come nowhere

near me, I said, I'm, I'm I'll

come out, get rid of the wire.

Take these fucking wire

off your knuckles out.

I go, right.

And they took me to Mayor Arbour.

And anyway, the deal was.

I had to go on orders and I

knew I was gonna get bused.

And when I got bused, they

were gonna send me back.

And they said right in between times,

you're not allowed up to the main camp and

they're not allowed down to May Harbour.

And I wasn't having that 'cause I was

seeing some girl up at the, at the camp.

I thought I can at least

go and see her before I go.

So I snuck up to the camp and got

another fucking great tear up.

Anyway, by the time I got, I got actually

got on the plane in the, on in handcuffs.

They put me on the in handcuffs and put me

on the plane and they flew me out there.

They, they let the handcuffs off at

Ascension when I got back to Ascension.

Right.

This is a bizarre story.

And people would probably go,

no, this couldn't have happened.

Right.

When we got to Ascension, the

coppers who'd come from the Falkland

Islands to escort me, got off the

fucking plane, unlocked with things,

handed me over and went fuck off.

They hadn't told people

what was going on with me.

So when I got on the next

plane, I'm just a punter.

I'm like that hell, I,

I'm not just a punter.

When we get the prize,

they know even less.

So I get the prize Norton and I'm

like, well, where's, where's my lift?

Where am I supposed to be going?

My battalion had just amalgamated

so nobody knew anything.

alex: Yeah,

phil: there was people all over the place.

There was people in the Falklands, there

was people there, there was people there.

So the whole hotel was a mess.

I thought, fuck this, I'm going home.

So I went home, right?

I just went home.

I, I left.

I, I got lifted of the fucking main gate.

I went home right then I, so

I didn't have a home to go to.

I went to my sister's house.

I told her what happened.

I said, look, I've been

in a bit of trouble.

I said, but I'm, I'm not going back.

I said, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm fucked.

I'm, I'm, I'm having some time out.

So I said, can you do me

a favour to my sister?

She was really posh spoken.

I said, do me a favour.

I said, phone up the agen.

I said, I'll give you the number.

So I want me look

through your Shane phone.

Just tell him that I've had a

real, some real problems at home

and I'm staying at home for a bit.

So she did phoned up the accident, right?

I think it was a guy called

Smith phone, his mom.

And he went, well, yeah, it's fine.

Yeah, yeah.

Just give as much time as, because

he didn't really know what was

going on because nobody's back

briefed anybody properly because

it was just such a busy period.

Then he goes, I just tell him

to turn up when he turns up.

Like, know what I mean?

So I took three months

off, three fucking months.

Sat at home like that,

fucking doing nothing.

Just, just, just enjoying

myself, being paid no charge.

You know what I mean?

Nothing, just fucking at home.

Then I thought, right, I better go

back 'cause I'm getting bored now.

So I went back.

I literally, I walked into the

camp, I walked to the guard room.

Yeah, it's a private Campion.

Oh, I thought you was a

full, no, no private camping.

Right.

Yeah's fucking taken

up to the ENTs office.

This guy called Smith.

He, oh, you're back Mrs.

Dr. I said, I've got Buster.

Oh right, okay.

He said, well, what do you wanna do?

I said, well, he had all the, all back

on the fucking, on his wall in his room.

He goes, what do you wanna do?

I looked at the all bat.

I said, I wanna go back to

the rifle company at, he

said, alright, he, which one?

I said, well, where?

I said, where's a guy called Dale?

I said, where's Dale's platoon?

He said, Dale's goes Yeah number.

I think it was seven Platoon or something.

Yeah, yeah.

Number seven.

I go stickers in that boss.

He goes, yeah, no problems.

He goes, they're over there.

He says, get your kit.

He says, they're in this block.

Tell me the block was turned up.

Dale was say, you fucking hell Phil.

Great mate of mine.

Like, they like, Hey, come

gimme a fucking room in there.

Anyway, I'm now in the Plato one.

No one's really switched on.

Within a fucking few months.

Within a few weeks, actually, Dale

pushes for me to get one strike

back because I'm, I'm already,

I'm already doing the fucking job.

So he, he puts a case

forward to the accident.

I'll get one strike back straight away.

Right?

Yeah.

Then we give a trip to Canada, right?

And we've got this Russian trend system.

It's clearing this Russian trend system,

unbeknown to me, the commander of five

Airborne, a guy called Johnny Holmes

Brigadier at the time, Johnny Holmes

is watching my platoon go through this

fucking Russian defence system, right?

So, I dunno who's behind me.

He's just, he's just there, right?

So I've got my platoon,

we come under contact, the

demand funds to contact Vince.

I'm like, I'm giving out the

orders of, and what, what happened

was the fall screw who was meant

to be doing it, had gone sick.

So I'm now leading my platoon, right?

Yeah.

So I've, I've got not the platoon,

I'm now leading my section.

Yeah.

So I've got the section, I've got

them on the bundle, and I've put

some support and fire over here.

We dive into the trench and I

look behind me and I see a clean

pair of fucking combat trousers.

Fucking, who's that?

Stood up.

So literally fucking, I'm

still looking this way.

Reached up, grabbed this fucking

webbing belt, ripped this fucking

ight into the fucking dirt.

Look at him.

It's the fucking brigade

commander, isn't it?

Right.

I'm like, fuck.

So rather than panic, right, I go, sir,

listen to me enemy 300 metres that way.

I said, I've got give him a

full fucking battle brief.

Right?

I said, you are having with me.

Right?

So I grabbed him and I bundle him

through this fucking trench system.

He's having a great time.

I'm fucking putting him out

corners and fucking, when we get

to the fucking grenade pit at the

end, I'm like, right grenade man.

Come here.

Hoo to the fucking brigade commander.

He's like, so I get it's him to

post the fucking grenade, right?

He goes in, boom bang, off

it goes, fucking great day.

He had a great day.

Yo brigadier, they don't get

to do that stuff anymore.

So he's just come through

the Russian Trenton system.

He's the grenade man.

Boom.

And he fucking goes fucking

greatest day he's ever had.

So when we come outta there, right?

He says to the, he must have

said to the co, who's that?

You know, he says to me, he goes,

he goes, well, don't corporal.

He said, no, no.

Lance Corporal.

He said, Lance Corporal.

He says, no, I'm not having that.

I said, not Lance Corporal

said, says not on my watch.

You are not.

He says, you are.

He says, you are doing the job.

He said, well, I said, yeah,

I'm section commander today.

So, yeah.

I said, it's been a long

time coming, this one.

So he, he made me up in the field and

he took, he took the stripes to one

of the R Andp, one of the, the rps.

Yeah.

Had some, some stripes.

He, he right.

Gimme the answer.

He got the fucking metal.

He promoted me in the field.

I fucking see how stupid He

said he'd just been bused, but

he couldn't say was like that.

He was there like that.

He was ripped I a fucking

great hole in me combats.

Yeah.

They faces and shit's playing.

Can up.

I've got me fucking helmet my half on.

I'm like, chin straps undo.

And I got the fucking brigade command

to giving me a fucking two stripes.

He's just ripped off a fluff

at one of the corporals.

Oh, man.

Amazing.

I've got a photograph of it somewhere.

I, I'd love to dig it out.

There's a photograph of me there,

because he made up a couple of other

people, but they brought them in.

They were all clean.

alex: Yeah.

phil: But on there absolute shit order.

It was like an on the spot thing

that, you know what I mean?

That was funny.

alex: And how long have you been

bust for until you got that?

phil: Six months?

If that.

If that, yeah, it was ridiculous.

Flash the bang time.

Yeah.

Don't forget, three months

of that'll spend at home.

alex: Yeah.

phil: AWOL

alex: on full page.

Yeah.

phil: Yeah.

It's incredible.

And I'll tell that story

and people like, no way.

No way.

But it was the am amalgamation.

It just put so much, nobody

knew what was happening.

And I just completely

took advantage of that.

I was like, no, no, no.

This is just the best time that

you ever, you could never get

alex: worry that these

days because you were

phil: social, social

alex: media and your phones

phil: now.

I think I would've been for,

for, for the, for the actual,

what I did in the Falklands.

I think I'd have been

thrown out the military.

alex: Wow.

phil: I don't think I'd have survived.

Wow.

You know, I held a fuck, I held a

police station overnight with fucking

things wrapped around me knuckles.

Do you know what I mean?

It's ridiculous.

alex: And it went ol for three months

phil: and then went ol for three months.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it off, it was ridiculous.

alex: Oh, right.

Yeah.

Was that like, was that a

big highlight of your career?

Like that, that.

Before you badged in like that,

that's a pretty cool story.

Turnaround from

phil: Scruff, A fall boots.

Yeah.

No, I, I just, I just, so

I was always in trouble.

I, I, there's so many

stories I could tell you.

Do you know what I mean?

There was stories of me.

Yeah.

I remember we went on the piss one

night and I, it was always on the piss

with me, like, you know what I mean?

It's always on the piss.

And it was a fancy dress night downtown,

and I'd ended up around some girl's

house, but I'd left my working dress

there the night before, but I missed

the must parade and I'd gone out as Ty.

Right.

So I, I'd gone out in the evening with

Ty and I, I realised that I needed to get

back on camp, but I didn't want anybody

to see me getting on and who it was.

So I'd be working dress on

and this great big Ty head

yelling.

He's going, stop, stop.

Who's that?

Coming back on camera now, obviously

realising that I was fucking late.

He's going get here and

he's, he yelled at me.

Soy stop.

Fucking know.

Yeah,

yeah.

Always in trouble.

Always in trouble, mate.

Yeah, I just, I must've been a nightmare.

I would've been, I would've

been a platoon nightmare.

Like, do you know what I mean?

alex: But like, guys like you that

made the best soldiers, didn't they?

I

phil: enjoyed it.

I, I genuinely enjoyed it, you

know, in the field, in the field.

I couldn't do anything wrong.

That's

alex: where it count.

I

phil: couldn't do anything

wrong in the field.

I loved it.

Do you know what I mean?

If it was something to be done,

if it was something we had, if,

you know, I volunteer for it

all day, you know what I mean?

I did my commando course, I did p company,

I did everything there was to be done.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

There's, there's no more I could do.

And, and I just, I just want, all

I wanted to do was be a soldier.

That's all I wanted to do.

alex: And was this love of soldiering,

what drove you towards Harriford

and wanted to go and select?

phil: Um, again, that's another

story there, because I was

never, I was happy where I was.

Alright.

And when we amalgamated, when I as

was Royal ap, I was quite happy right

when we amalgamated, I then did PE

company and I thought to myself,

I'll tell you what I'm gonna do.

I'm gonna try and transfer it to Free

Para because I don't fancy this two

year tour of Omar that was coming up.

Free power of staying in Dover.

Um, they're not an amalgamated regiment.

There was a lot of sort of like shit

at the time, you know, having to

prove yourself again and all that.

And I thought, well, I might as well go

prove myself again somewhere, somewhere

like that and stay in the country.

So.

Johnny Holmes, same bloke, right?

Who didn't remember it was me, but

he was still brigade commander.

So I thought, well, I've met the

brigade commander and I met him on

PE company 'cause he came down and

watched our PE company all got bad.

So it was a big thing 'cause there was

15 of us from the inventory all passing

on the same day, all from the same unit.

And so he came down.

So I thought, right.

Tell you what I'm gonna do.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna fuck

the chain of command.

I'm gonna phone the brigade commander

and ask him if I can go to free power.

Right?

So he gets back, I sit, I gets the

fucking number off the company clerk.

I phones up Johnny Os I

manages to get through to him.

Right?

This is incredible.

I managed to get through to the Great

Commander as a fucking full screw.

Right?

So I get through to, I said, right,

it's called Bri Champion, sir. I said,

you might remember me, you saw me

on P Company and he's playing along

with, he's going, yes, yes, yes.

Why?

What do you want?

Corporate camp?

I said, right, I wanna

transfer to Free Pariser.

Okay.

He must have been thinking,

who the fuck is this idiot?

Like, do you know what mean?

He goes, yes, yes, soldier.

Of course you can.

Yes, yes.

I'll, I'll arrange that.

Oh, what battalion are you?

Second battalion?

The Princess of Wales is Royal Regimen.

Yeah.

Literally put the phone down, right?

Thinking we say wrong about the

block Now he'll make the phone call.

I'll be transferring next week.

Yeah.

Goes about the block and I

had this fucking camp yard.

Oh, they must have fucking

called already, right?

So I goes, walking up,

why are you walking?

Doubling, adjuvant wants you fucking,

now this is the RSM yelling at me.

I'm like, oh, okay.

Right.

It might not have gone as

well as I thought then, right?

So he goes upstairs.

The Aju was the same guy.

Smith.

alex: Yeah.

phil: He goes, you fucking, he

goes, what did you do that for?

I said, what?

He said, phone the brigade commander

and try and transfer out his regiment.

I said, well, 'cause that's

what I wanna do, sir.

He said, there's a chain

of commander around here.

Fucking idiot.

So he starts having to go at me.

I goes, I haven't got time for

this, sir. I said, what's happening?

Am am I going or not?

There's me and another guy called

Daisy May both basically Kalu put

this thing together ourselves.

Right.

You know what I mean?

So Daisy's up there as well with me.

So he goes, the co wants to see you.

So we mark into the CO's office,

Barry's on because we're not in

trouble at this stage, right?

And, um, BWR Barry's on, and

he stands up beyond a desk.

And there was a guy called, he was Colonel

Newton, a lovely guy, but very harsh.

He ended up as a major general, very,

very, very clever fucking bloke.

Really nice.

I've got a lot of time for him.

But he's behind his desk and he starts

giving me a fucking loyalties lecture.

You soldiers shall be loyal to the

Princess of Wales' Royal Regimen.

I said, well, me surfer won.

I said, him a fucking Royal am amateur.

I took this burial off my head

and I fucking threw it at him.

Right?

Big mistake.

He fucking lit. It was

like light and a fuse.

He fucking lit up.

He's screaming now.

So he goes, get outta my fucking office.

Go and see the fucking Rs m And before I

could get to the RSMs office, there was

a, there was a guy called Major Regan.

Now he'd done pea company and I

think he'd been the Pathfinder

platoon commander for a bit.

He was a fucking lovely guy.

Airborne used to wear his red

berry fit, fit fucking bloke.

Lovely bloke.

He goes, get in here, you fucking idiot.

Fuck.

So he grabs me in his office.

He slams the door behind

us and then he goes, calm.

He goes, what did you do that for Phil?

'cause he was quite a joy.

He goes, what did you have for Phil?

He goes, you're fucking idiot.

He goes, you've reached your

ceiling in an afternoon.

He said, you are doing nothing here now.

He said, he said, you

are gonna get nothing.

He said, you fucked yourself.

He said, the way I see it, he

says, you've got two choices.

He said, city Street.

He said, or Special Forces selection.

He goes, what's it gonna be?

I said, well, I'll do

special forces selection.

So I'll go out, still got the RSMs spot.

I can obviously like, you know, I mean,

he screams at me for about 20 minutes.

I'm like, oh, you know

when your face goes right?

So I goes out and, uh, put my

paperwork in as properly go on my

interview for, for SF selection.

The CEO goes, no, you're

not going for fuck sake.

One minute.

You don't want me lying.

The next minute you

saying I can't fucking go.

He said, no, no, no.

He said, I see you as one of my,

as one of my better soldiers.

He said, we've got a two year tour of

Northern Ireland coming up and I want you

and my cop platoons as a patrol commander.

He said, and you are gonna do that.

Got no fucking choice.

That way you couldn't argue

against an operational tour.

So I said, okay, sir, will you

let me go on selection after that?

He said, yes.

He said, if you, if you give

me, give me your fucking work.

He said, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll

let you go on selection after that.

So I said, all right, fair.

So we've at Northern Ireland went, anyway,

the ceasefire hit after about 12 months.

And I got the message going

down the train of command.

If camping wants to go on selection, he

can go on the next one, which was gonna be

the, the winter of whatever year it was.

And I'm like, fuck no, don't

gimme a lot of time to get ready.

But I, because I always kept myself fit

anyway, I just upped it a little bit, did

a bit of hill walking, got myself to the

stage where I was ready to go and went.

But it was, yeah, it was that, that's why

I ended up going, because I, I'd never

planned on going on, on as selection.

Didn't really know too much about it.

I obviously seen troopers about in

Northern Ireland then seen a few

things, but you almost got led to

believe it was out of your reach.

And it's one of the things I try

and tell young people now, if

you wanna go for it, go for it.

'cause when you get to my age and

I get loads of blokes at my age

turn around and go, oh, wish I'd

done selection when it's too late.

Now you're fat cunt.

You know what I mean?

You should've gone ages ago.

You fucked it now, haven't you?

Yeah.

So young people, if you

want to go, don't be told.

Don't.

'cause you're gonna hear from people

who failed, who are gonna go fuck you.

Hell, it was impossible.

Oh dear.

They made me carry 50 jerry

cans up a hill and, and tow a

lor and had to, no they didn't.

You failed because you

failed for whatever reason.

You failed, but you failed.

And it's nine times outta 10.

It's your fault.

You failed because you couldn't

be, you didn't have it in there.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

So don't, don't put people off.

So I always try and encourage

young people to wanna do it a

do it as quickly as possible.

Because the more, the earlier you do it,

the more time you get in the regimen.

And b, don't be put off by other

people, because other people aren't

going to tell you the truth when it

comes to, they're gonna, they're gonna

cover their own failings by making

it sound harder than what it is.

And that put me off because there,

there was, there was one guy in

particular, and I won't say his name

because it wouldn't be fair, but he

was always telling us how hard it was.

He'd failed three times.

He was like, no, it's actually, and I

actually thought to himself before I

went, am I making the right movie here?

Because in my eyes, he was a sergeant.

I thought, if he's failed it, fucking

hell, what chance have I caught?

Like, you know what I mean?

But I didn't, I just thought because

of the di situation that I was in,

I thought, I've got to go anyway.

So I'm going, do you know what I mean?

That's what I'm gonna do.

I'm going.

And I, there's no way I'm failing

because if I fail, I'm out the army.

'cause if I come back here, I'm fucked.

So it's sort of like, it was one of

those things where it was a catch 22.

I'm going and I'm definitely passing.

And I knew in my own mind

before I went, I was gonna pass.

I, I have no illusions under my, in

my own mind, I'm fucking passing.

There's no chance I'm

coming off this course.

None whatsoever.

And I did pass first time.

alex: And how, how was it, is there any

standout moments you had during selection?

phil: Um, shit.

So on the very f this is really funny.

So on the very first day I drove down

to Brecken and a mate of mine was

supposed to be coming down with me

and he was supposed to pick me up.

So I'd taken my car off the

road and hadn't taxed it.

Right?

So he phones me up on that day

and says, Phil, I'm not going.

I'm like, for fuck sake,

I haven't got a taxed car.

It wasn't like then days

when you can do it online.

alex: Yeah.

phil: I didn't have a tax dis for

my car, so I, I got a fucking, I

got an old tax dis that I'd had.

Yeah.

So like, mashed it up a bit, shoved

it in my car and drove, I got pulled

within fucking five minutes of

being outside of fucking Alford.

Right.

I got pulled, he pulled me

over, so I whipped his disc off.

'cause I knew that that was

worse than being done for No

disc was being done for fraud.

Right.

Yeah.

So ripped it off, put it in the thing.

He fucking said, you haven't got a text.

That's what I've pulled you,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Gave me a court date for about two

weeks into the fucking hills, right?

So I know that now I'm gonna

be on the hills and I've got a

court date and I'm not gonna be

able to fucking swerve it, right?

So I'm thinking to myself, what

the fuck can I do about this?

So I go to the Ds.

And I tell them, I've got a fucking

really bad dose and I'm gonna have

to go to Salisbury to sort it out

because that's where the doctor is.

So I managed to get fucking time off to

go and get this fucking dose sorted out.

Right.

This imaginary dose.

Right.

They, they take p on me.

It was, it was one of those mornings

where there wasn't loads on.

So you, I was out later in the afternoon.

So as long as I went early enough felt I

could get myself back, they didn't care.

So I pitch up in Salisbury,

ready to go to court.

I go to court, I defend myself.

'cause I haven't got money for

a lawyer or time for a lawyer.

So I think, and I don't wanna get

found guilty, so I plead not guilty.

Right.

So I defend myself.

So the driver that came down with me from

Hereford, he's like, he's in the audience.

Like, I fucking see how

this works out for him.

I what?

I mean, I'm posting up

and down like, like this.

I put it to you and I cross

examined this copyright.

And I basically go along the lines

if you said I didn't have a, a tax

disc, but I did, why did you stop me?

And he said, well, I stopped you

because I couldn't see a tax disc.

I said, well that's different

to not me not having a tax disc.

I did have a tax disc.

I said, but it had fallen off the

screen and it was on the floor.

But you never asked me.

You just pulled me.

Anyway, I managed to swing it around.

I get away with it.

Unbelievable.

The, the, the whatever it was, the

powers that be went, no, no, no, no, no.

He did have a tax disc.

I said I did have a tax.

Yes I did.

And you couldn't prove

it online at them days.

He, anyway, good.

Had it.

He didn't have it.

alex: Yeah.

phil: So he is like the

copper, got himself all muddled

up, got himself confused.

I made him look even more confused.

He didn't expect me to

cross-examine him the way I did.

I said, I've paid Paige

something down like that.

I'll put it to you.

So on the third date that you couldn't

see properly from where you were, how

would you know I didn't have taxes?

You pulled me And he's

like, I put it on over him.

Right.

So I get away with it.

This fucking driver's like Jesus Christ.

He's like, I said to look, look mate goes.

I said, please don't tell

him that I've been to court.

alex: Yeah.

phil: As I walk out of court and I

swear as I walk out of court, right.

I'm in my fucking suit.

Okay.

I walk out of court on

the steps of the court.

My commanding officer from PWRR, major

General Newton is not general, um, Colonel

Newton at the time is stood on the steps

shopping in fucking solves me, right?

I'm like, ugh.

And as I go to sort like swerve

him, ah, corporal C how are you?

I'm like, oh, I'm alright sir. He

said, I thought you're on selection.

I said, I am.

I said, we're doing some

covert work around town.

I said, I'm gonna have to go.

So I walk off, I'm like fucking,

I get honest, dude.

I get back to, I'll get back to camp and

I'll get on the, i I crack on as normal.

Nothing's ever said about it until about

six months later I've passed election.

Yeah.

And I'm in the interest room and a letter

turns up from the r and p and they've

had the fucking city courts in touch with

them telling them that I'd been to court.

And they fucking grasp me up the bastards

and said, I've got a boken, I've got

another Bullock off the CO at the time.

And he's like, fucking

you should have told us.

And all that sort of stuff.

But I was like, look sir, how could

I'd like, you know what I mean?

I was like, anyway, gimme

the benefit of the doubt.

alex: This is just after

you passed election as well?

phil: Probably after, yeah.

No, I was on the, I was on

the counter terrorism team.

alex: Yeah.

phil: And it was like, yeah,

I've got pulled in on orders.

alex: Could that have been as,

as bad as like Right back to pw?

phil: Probably could've been.

Yeah.

Because at the time you're on

probation anyway, so you, for

your first year when you, when you

passed election on your probation.

So he, he probably would've been well

in his rights to go, I tell you what,

not having that, you're a fucking idiot.

You know what I mean?

I'll see you later.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

It's just, it's just, you know, just,

you just think, right, I've done that.

And all of a sudden it

re it resurfaces again.

You go, oh no,

stand up

alex: guy though.

phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was crazy.

But yeah, that was it.

But, you know, I was in the

regiment, early days, great time,

straight on the counter-terrorism

team, not loads of work coming in.

But we did, you know, we were doing these,

we were doing these things in Bosnia where

you, I'm not, I can't go too far into

'em, but you, you'd go over to Bosnia and

you, you, you'd do pif weeks person wanted

indicted for war crimes and you'd go and

arrest 'em and that, you know what I mean?

And they were good little jobs.

'cause you, they'd all be lined

up and you'd turn up on scene.

You'd could rip 'em out their

houses or pull 'em out their

beds or, do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

It'd be fucking great.

You'd go and arrest these people

and you'd set them up and it'd be,

you know, the whole nine times outta

10, it would take quite a few guys.

It'd be well planned for.

So they were good little operations.

Do you know what I mean?

And then we had, we had Stanstead as well.

So we had, we had, we had the

Stanstead plane jacking when

that came over from Afghanistan.

alex: Yeah.

phil: And that was all right.

We never got, we never got the sort of

like end result that we wanted, which

was to get on board and get amongst it.

But everything leading up to that,

you know, the reces, the, the food

drops, all the stuff that you'd sort

of like practised, we did for real.

And it was, it was great.

That was my first real sort operation

where I came face to face with a

terrorist actually face to face

on the steps of the back of the

plane with a fucking terrorist.

Like, know what mean, which was great.

I was like, fucking, this is brilliant.

You know what I mean?

It was fucking, and you know, you've

got a sniper over your shoulder.

Like, you know, I mean, so

I'm actually trying to wind

this bloke up to do something.

'cause I'm thinking I just

wanna see the back of your

head on the back of that plane.

You know what I mean?

It brilliant.

You know what I mean?

I loved it.

It was great.

We, you know, I did, I did two

or three IES on the bottom of the

plane and all that sort of stuff.

And I did a couple of food drops.

So like say when he did the

food drop, he literally handed

the food over to the terrorist.

Like, do you know what I mean?

He'd be on the bottom of the, said his

eyes would be under his little like that.

You could see he was

absolutely breaking himself.

His hands will be shaking,

you know what I mean?

And I'm trying to wind it up.

I'm trying to wind up because I

know that if he kicks off, I'm on.

Yeah.

alex: You

phil: know what I mean?

I'm on You kick off mate.

I'm coming on.

You know what I mean?

The whole team, because every time

we went out, the team would be

stacked up, ready to go anyway,

so they would be ready to go.

But the drill was, if it went off, you

just deal with it as you can at the time.

The team will catch up.

Yeah.

And it's like an emergent re

response to get on there and

start flat packing people.

And I was like, yes,

I'll have someone out.

So getting on the food on was a big thing.

'cause he thought you might, you

might just be able to tip the

scales in your favour on this one.

You know what I mean?

What better get a rise out It rise,

I'm on and you know what I mean?

I'm like, yeah, brilliant.

So,

alex: oh man.

Okay.

phil: It didn't know though.

They all walked off peacefully much

to the disgust at the squadron.

We've got a lot of time

and effort on that.

And then, and I was, I was the

MOE rep on that one as well.

So there was me and another lad we

were gonna be responsible for, for

blowing the door off the front of

it, which was a big old hefty charge.

So we were gonna knock the front door

in and then we'd sort of like managed to

say, well, there'll be more doors inside,

so we need to get on the plane as well.

Like, do you know what I mean?

So we need to be sort of like first

in the stack to get into the cockpit

and all those sorts of places.

And then they, they, they, they'd

bitten on it like, oh, okay.

Right.

Yeah, you'll be going.

So I had a great job.

I'd been, I'd have been front centre

and smashing things like that.

Know, I mean, I thought this

is gonna be the best day ever.

Like, do you know what I mean?

They fucking dropped chicken it.

But yeah.

alex: Overseas.

phil: So, yeah, I had a, I had a, I

had a, so we didn't do loads and loads,

but we did, we did a fair amount.

Do you know what I mean?

alex: Nice.

And how was regiment life?

phil: I enjoyed it.

See, it was, it was good life.

You were left alone.

If you weren't doing

stuff, you were left alone.

Nine times outta 10, you were doing

stuff, but when you weren't doing

stuff, they did leave you alone and

you were treated like an adult and

you know, you had an opinion there.

You were, you were allowed to voice

yourself and all that sort of stuff.

So it was, it was different to

battalion life where if there was

nothing to do, they'd muster you

just for the sake of mustering it.

alex: Yeah.

phil: You know, mean,

why have we done that?

Well, 'cause we can, you know, yeah.

There was none of that sort of stuff.

You know, you have musta parades,

but must parades were in the,

were in the interest room and you

were sat round, you know, a table.

You'd wait, the start major would come in.

Everybody here sometimes, you

know, wouldn't even call the role.

It was everyone here,

or we'd just say troop staff, you know,

account for your, your blokes here.

Yeah.

Because you never knew, you

know, you never knew how the

blokes would be on courses.

Blokes would be away.

So they never knew it was there.

They didn't care.

All right, we're all here.

Right.

Okay, this is what we're doing this week.

This is what you're

doing today or whatever.

Like, you know, it was just such a

chilled, it was a better atmosphere for

me because it was more how I wanted to be.

Do you know what I mean?

I, I, I didn't like the

screaming and shouting.

I didn't like the bullshit.

I didn't like being on camp.

I didn't, I fucking certainly didn't like

hiding in my clothes and stuff like that.

Do you know what I mean?

I didn't like, I didn't

like all that sort of stuff.

It wasn't me.

I liked being in the field.

I liked doing stuff.

alex: And at any point, did you want it to

get promoted or did you still understand

phil: opinion of like, no, I

just wanted to be a trooper.

Yeah.

I genuinely wanted to be a trooper.

I know, you know, there is a sort of

like natural progression, but I, I

was, I always put off that progression

anyway because of, I was supposed to

get me your first tape after a year or

so, and I never got that tape in there.

And I was only, I was there for about

four and half, five years, and I never

got that tape for one reason or another.

I just had a series of incidents

where I never got promoted.

Yeah.

I was quite happy about that.

I didn't care.

Do you know what I mean?

Genuinely, quite, quite happy about that.

I, I'd just say a trooper in a,

in a sabre squadron until I could

no longer physically operate.

Do you know what I mean?

That would've been me.

I'd have been quite happy

with that, you know?

alex: And, and I suppose being

in the regiment was the highlight

of your military career.

phil: Yeah, definitely.

Definitely.

Although I do say in terms of, you

know, people go, what was the best

moment of your military career?

My best moment in my military career

was going through that gate in the story

I mentioned earlier where I suddenly

felt safe because I thought, I thought,

no, no, this is, I can do stuff here.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

But no, had some great times, you know,

getting badged and, you know, some of the

jobs that we went on, obviously the Sierra

Leon own job, which is, you know, there's,

there's so much about that out there now.

Do you know what I mean?

But that was the, that was a

big job and that was one of

my final things I did really.

I then got in a bit more

trouble, um, on a PV yard.

I got out, didn't sort, like, resolve

the problems I had and just got out.

And to be fair, I, I was probably

just staring down the barrel

of being moved on anyway.

You know what I mean?

So I'm not, I, I think the only on

the last, on the last interview I

had the co mentioned to me that the,

the possibility I could have gone to

the TA for a couple of years, which

was two, one or two free and maybe,

you know, at a call off period there.

But for whatever reason, it, it

never, and I didn't, I just thought

coming from a sabre squadron

then go, there just wasn't me.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Under that, under that deal, if I'd

have gone there as still being part of

two two, then it would've been fine.

But to go there and sort of like

Rev, it was a step backwards for me.

And I obviously this was 2000 before

the towers went in and I didn't have

the, I didn't have the foresight

to think we were gonna go to war

for 15 fucking years, didn't I?

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

So I didn't know.

I was like, you know, I

genuinely didn't know.

And I thought, you know, I'll get out.

There's money to be made.

Never had any money.

I never had any money.

I was always skin.

Um, and so I thought I'll get out

and try and make some money and

try and, you know, build a life.

And that's what I did.

Yeah.

So that, that, that

was, that was me really.

That was, that's, I got out,

alex: how was it?

Marking timing and saying

like, that's, that's me.

That's me.

Done.

I'm,

' phil: cause it was an abrupt finish.

I was gutted really.

I was gutted for, you know, I was

due to go on the counterterrorism

team for my third tour.

I think.

Um, obviously the guys were getting

ready for that and I was getting

ready to go out, so I wasn't

included on any of the training.

And yeah, it was just, I just couldn't

wait to fucking go in the end.

I just wanted to go.

I had a massive argument with one

of the pay people before I went.

Stood in between, stood got in the

old Dolphin Vulcan death group.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was, it, it was, uh, it was not

the way I, I'd, I'd figured on ending

my career, but it, you know, I've

always said to people, if you get,

if you create a shit sandwich or you

get dealt with shit sandwich, just

choke the fucking thing down and move

on, because, do you know what I mean?

Lingering about lifting it up and

smelling it and trying to pick the

pieces out of it ain't gonna work.

Just fucking get it done and get on.

Do you know what I mean?

Because it's, you know,

that's the way I do business.

Do you know what I mean?

I just, you know, if I, I realise what

I've done, I realise that I've gotta

do something about what the position

I'm in, and I just, I'll just go then.

Do you know what I mean?

alex: There's a lot to be

said about that as well.

Isn't though, when you can just, you

know, I've got a shit hand in life,

whether it's for your own creative

phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you have to be honest, you have to own

stuff when you, when you do fuck things

up, and I have fucked lots of things up.

Do you know what I mean?

When you do fuck up, just own it.

Just own it, own it, and move on.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Just get, get the best.

But you, and I've always said,

there's always a positive

to be had from a negative.

Well, no matter what that is.

And I, I always tell the story of

when I was a very small child, my dad

used to beat me, bad, beat me as well.

He used to sit on my chest and hit me.

And I'm only like that big.

And someone my size is hitting me.

And I remember this one time I went limp.

I thought I play possum.

I went limp.

And he stopped hitting me.

He panicked.

He thought he'd knocked

me out, and he got off.

And so every time he hit me

after that, I used to go limp

and he's panicking, get off.

And I was controlling.

Now, yeah, I was controlling

the, the fight as it was.

Do you know what I mean?

Because I knew if I

went limp, he'd get off.

And that was the, that was a win.

And that's one of the, that's

one of the saddest wins you could

probably ever have in your life.

But it was a win.

And from that, from that day on,

my attitude has always been, if

I look down and I can still get

air in my fucking lungs, I'm a go.

Do you know what I mean?

I can do something about it.

Do you know what I mean?

The day I, the day, I

can't look down anymore.

There is no air in my lungs or, you

know, and I've been to that point

as well where I've sort of like

thought this is absolutely over.

There's nothing you can do.

It's, it's out of your cap capability.

But while there is something I can do

and, and I can move and I can do, you know

what I mean, then I want, I'm, I'm, I'm,

I'm happy I can do something about it.

alex: And so you come

out the regiment Yeah.

Saying that you wanna go and try and make

some money, do something for yourself.

What was it that you went to go and do?

phil: Well, I'd heard about all

these rich Arabs employing people as

bodyguards and all that sort of stuff.

And as luck, I, I'd just done my

bodyguarding course in the regiment.

So I was current, I was qualified,

um, but there was nothing.

It was, I got out and there was nothing.

It was, I literally got out on the,

on the 1st of September of the 2001.

And then, like I say, the

towers went in on the ninth.

alex: Yeah.

phil: And I realised that there

was gonna be, there was gonna

be some work to be had Yeah.

Elsewhere.

So I wasn't panicking, but there was a

stage where I'd had no work whatsoever

and I couldn't get a job, not even

working doors and shit like that.

Do you know what I mean?

And there was, I was running fin on.

alex: Yeah.

phil: On, yeah.

It was difficult.

And like I say, the fact I had no

qualifications and nothing I did in

the military, I went, I remember,

I, I, I went down to the careers

office, not the careers office, the,

um, job centre to get a crisis loan.

I had no money that whatsoever.

And I knew you could get these, but you

had to fill in a load of forms and shit.

And I remember, you know, I, I had to

go for a job interview, and the only

job criteria that I matched in the whole

area was a lollipop man in Margate.

That was the only job that

I was eligible to go for.

alex: Yeah.

phil: And I was gonna have to go

for an interview for this job.

And anyway, another job came up in

Afghanistan in between times, and I

didn't go, but I was like, fucking hell.

I was staring down the barrel of going

for a job interview for a lollipop

man in fucking Margo, because that was

the only job I was qualified to do,

alex: being in the most like, elite

fighting regiment in the world.

Yeah.

Didn't get a lollipop,

phil: man.

Didn't get, you know, I remember talking

to this young girl behind the jump in

the, in the, in the, in the, in the

careers office and showing, oh, what have

you been doing for the last 10 years?

I must steal you.

I bring her up, death underwater knife

fire in my fucking, he's like, so what?

You're a fucking idiot.

Like, do you know what I mean?

I'm like, what do you mean I

haven't heard a D squadron?

Who the fuck D squadron?

Like, you know what I mean?

Jesus Christ.

And it suddenly dawned to

me, it's not worth a wink.

It wasn't worth a wink.

It wasn't worth nothing to these people.

They didn't care.

Civvies genuinely didn't care.

It was like, so what?

Do you know what I mean?

It was like, and it was such a,

because you'd always been, been sort

of under the belief or lived this life

where, you know, cat Badgers tell you

you are the best parachute regiment.

The great, yeah.

You know, I'm a para, I'm a

para, I'm a para, I'm a Marine.

I'm marine.

You know, I was a royal amster.

You know, you were

proud of your cat badge.

You thought you were the best.

You knew were the best.

You were told you were

the best half times.

Do you know what I mean?

alex: Yeah.

phil: All of a sudden you get the street.

What the fuck?

What was

alex: that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

phil: So what wings?

Woo.

Do you know what I mean?

You have Red Bull dear.

No.

Do you know what I mean?

It's like, fuck you now.

And I just, it was one of those

things where I, it, it, it

suddenly came to a juddering stop.

Boom.

No one cares.

I'm gonna have to sort myself out here.

You know?

No one cares.

alex: Yeah.

phil: No one gives a fuck.

I, you know, I'm blessed to

have the following I have now

because of what I've done.

They are people that do care.

But then a lot of the people in City

Street and a lot of people making

decisions about you as a, as an

individual, like the job when you, when

you're on your, when you're on your bad

times, couldn't give a shit who you are.

You know what I mean?

They genuinely don't.

alex: And since you moved on,

you got a job in Afghanistan.

phil: Yeah, which was great.

It was a great job.

You know, I was, I was a, I started off

as two IC of a super security detail

looking after the interest of a European

embassy, which gave me all sorts of

diplomatic privilege, access to assets.

Um, it was armed.

It was, it was a great fucking job.

Do you know, I mean, we had a, we had

a team of ambassadors that we looked

after in the close protection role.

We had gate guards at various

locations, which we had to train.

So we had a team of staff.

We had drivers.

Yeah, it was a great job.

It was a really good, good job.

Do you know what I mean?

In fact, you know, you'd have been

happy with it in the regiment if there

hadn't been the, if, if the other blokes

weren't in caves mixing it with people.

Yeah.

You'd have been quite happy to do that.

Like, do you know what I mean?

You'd have been, that'd have been the,

that'd have been a decent little number.

Like, do you know what I mean?

You're in a, you're in an area

which is, I don't like doing

things for the sake of it.

And in Afghanistan, you certainly

weren't doing it for the sake of it.

Do you know what I mean?

Everything you did was because

there was a genuine fret on the, the

people that you were looking after.

So I loved that.

It was good, you know, and I, I spent

nearly three years in Afghanistan and I

couldn't get my first trip over there.

I did eight months without going home.

I was like, oh, fuck that.

I was just staying.

Yeah.

I loved it.

Fucking, I was out every fucking day.

I just, I just loved it.

I was out, you know, I was planning

to, I was planning extraction routes.

I was doing this, I was, you know, I,

I spot coded the whole fucking city.

Like, do you know what I mean?

I did.

I did everything.

I, I couldn't do enough ies.

I bought a little motorbike so

I could cut round town easier.

Yeah.

I drew, I wore C clothes, you

know, proper afg, Afghani C clothes

with AK 47 used, used to do all my

advances like that so I could cut

down the side streets and get around.

I had a great time.

It was brilliant.

And all the stuff I'd learned

in the regiment, I was imply

I was employing over there.

So it was, you know, and, and the guys I

was working with, to be fair apart from

a couple, all had similar backgrounds.

So it was like, it was, you know, it,

it was out the frying pan into the fire.

alex: Yeah.

phil: And you were getting paid, you

know, I was on, I went from being on

whatever I was, you know, 34 KA year in

a sabre squadron in 2001 to, you know,

80 k year minus not paying fucking tax

because I was, I was living overseas.

Oh yeah.

Fucking good money.

Do you know what I mean?

It was great money and you

were, you know, alright.

I didn't, I didn't come home very

often 'cause I had to stay out

there to get that sort of money.

But mate, the, the money was stacking up.

I was like, this is ridiculous.

Do you know what I mean?

But the downside with that was

I didn't know how to handle

that money when I came home.

And I would fucking, I mean, I'd be

a menace on the piss if I'd tender

in my pocket, you know, stick,

fucking stick a thousand pound in

me pocket and send me on the piss.

Yeah.

You got a problem.

Like, you know what I mean?

Because I'm on the piss.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

I was, I started, not initially, but.

As things progressed on the circuit

for me and I made money and I came home

because of the nature of the stuff that

I was doing, which in some instances

could be insanely dangerous, you know?

And I have had some real scrapes where

I've been in the glad to be a live club.

And you know, it's, again, no one cares

because you're a contractor who cares?

You

alex: just,

phil: you take your money, you take your

choice, but you never heard any of the

stories, you know, publicly of people

doing stuff and people getting whacked and

wasted and all that sort of, no one cared.

You know what I mean?

You were taking money as far as they

were concerned, you were as good as

a mercenary, you know what I mean?

All what you want, contract a mercenary,

but that's what you were, so, you know.

It took its toll on me in a way

that when I came home, I just went

weapons free every time I came home.

And I can't do that because when I

do start doing that, I start getting

myself into trouble very easily.

Get myself into trouble.

I mean, I, I need to stay focused.

I need to stay,

alex: yeah.

phil: On top of things.

If I just go weapons free in a pub.

Do you know what I mean?

The only thing I haven't

never done is drugs.

But I'm, I'm sure if I, if I, if I'd

have got into it bad enough, I probably

would've ended up on everything like that.

Know what I mean?

So I've, I know I have

to curb my own behaviour.

alex: Yeah.

phil: It's, it's really fucking hard, eh?

It,

alex: yeah, it's,

phil: it's really hard.

I'm genuine about it.

It's really hard.

I have to genuinely, sometimes

just completely step out of it.

But I, I wasn't doing that.

I was coming home and I was going

absolutely fucking bonkers on the piss,

you know, shots at every opportunity.

Bottles of champagne by the

fucking neck, sticking them down.

'cause I didn't need, I didn't

have to worry about money anymore.

It was one of the worst.

It was such a double-edged sword.

Do you know what I mean?

It was great in one respect, but on the

other side of it, I was a fucking maniac.

Yeah.

Because there were no, there

were no restraints on me.

Now I could go anywhere I want,

I could stay out all night.

I could drink till the cows come home.

I could stay in a hotel if I wanted.

I didn't care.

Do you know what I mean?

It was like, fuck you,

I'll just do what I want,

alex: do what I want when I want.

Yeah.

And ain't no one gonna stop me.

Yeah.

phil: My

alex: money, my time.

Yeah.

phil: And it just, yeah, it was terrible.

So I was sort of like, I was, I was,

I was working as hard as I could and

loving life when I was away, coming

home and partying 10 times harder.

Like, do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And over the period, you know, I, I,

I, so I don't make any secrets of it.

I ended up, I ended up in Winchester

remanded in custody for attempted murder.

alex: And you were, at one

point, were you classed as the

most dangerous man in Hampshire?

phil: That's what they

said when I was in court.

Yeah.

I made aqui to my fucking lawyers.

I said, who the fuck are

they gonna endorse it?

And it went down like a, like a fight

in a space suit, like, you know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But that's, you know, that's, and I, and

do you know what, when I was the first

night in Winchester prison, I had to look

in the mirror and go, you fucking idiot.

Do you know, like, um, that film Sexy

Beast where Don Logan looks in the mirror?

And he goes, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no.

I'm looking in the mirror doing the same

thing going, you fucking idiot can be you.

Fucking stupid fucking idiot.

I'm look in the mirror and do you

know what people sometimes say to you?

You are, you are mad if

you talk to yourself.

I now say to people, you're

mad if you fucking don't.

Because me acknowledging myself

was what turned me around.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Me looking in that mirror and

going, you need to sort yourself

out, son, was what turned me around.

Because nobody else was gonna tell when

you, when you're in prison, no one else.

It is survival mode.

No one else cares about your predicament.

They've got their own, everyone else

has got, yeah, everyone's innocent and

everyone's got their own predicament.

Do you know what I mean?

So you got no one to

sort of like, oh, mate.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because he's going, mate,

don't wanna hear it.

You know what I mean?

Don't wanna hear your fucking problems.

I've got enough problems, you know, I've

alex: got all shit to deal

phil: with.

Yeah, exactly.

They got, you know, there's

all sorts of domestic issues.

There's all sorts of issues

going on with behind bars.

There's all sorts of this that the

other, there's wants and needs.

And you just become insular.

And as far as you've got no one to fucking

talk to, the screws haven't got time.

No one cares.

You know, the whole system is

just there to contain you, to

keep you off the fucking public.

That's all it, you know what I mean?

There's no, yeah, you could go to

lessons and stuff like that, but it's

just occupying you, so don't smash

yourself up or something, you know?

I mean, it's just bullshit.

I did maths.

I, I hate because I hated maths so much.

I thought I'll try and do

some maths on them in there.

I went to maths lessons and

I spent my time in myself

trying to fucking do fractions.

Do you know what I mean?

Which was like, just, just

anything to turn my mind off.

I hated it there.

alex: Uh, at this point, Leslie,

you must have been mid thirties ish.

phil: Yeah.

Yeah.

Must have been no later than that.

In my forties.

alex: Forties.

phil: In my forties.

'cause I came out and that was when

I got into boxing and all that.

And I thought, I need somewhere

to challenge my, give me some

focus in fucking life, which was,

which turned out to be boxing.

Like a

alex: lot of that.

So it's this transition from

the military to city streets.

phil: You need to be like-minded people.

You need, you need direction, you

need stuff that's gonna fulfil

your ambitions and, and, and needs.

Because I didn't have that.

I had no cfr, no C

friends, really in tonne.

It's

alex: very, very hard to go from

serving, especially like in a

frontline unit and then at Harford

to, because C'S just politely,

phil: they don understand it.

Even the circuit stuff.

Even the circuit stuff.

Because the circuit stuff for

me was, was so intense, so long.

Yeah.

Doing stuff that I, so when you

come home, it's like, the fuck, I

just, I couldn't blend in at home.

I didn't want, I didn't

wanna blend in home either.

I don't wanna be a C

alex: Yeah.

phil: I wanted to be a C I'd have

fucking gone to McDonald's and got a

job and just been happy with my fucking

50 fucking whatever it is a year.

I dunno.

I, I don't even know.

I don't care.

Yeah.

alex: I

phil: don't wanna do that.

Or I would've done that.

Do you know what I mean?

I'd be happy with my one week

of fucking month in Mar Bay

and whatever, do you know?

I didn't wanna do that.

alex: Yeah.

phil: So I didn't, but it was,

you know, it came at a cost.

But like I say, once I think I had to go

so low before I stopped what I was doing

to, to, to make me actually realise that

no, no, no, no, no, you can't do it.

You're not invincible anymore, Phil.

You can't, you've got to, you

screw it up, you've gotta start.

And that's when, that's when I saw like

alex: where you discovered boxing.

phil: That's when I discovered boxing.

And that's when I, I mean, I'd always

been to boxing clubs, one of these blokes

who turns up and never had a fight.

Like, you know what I mean?

I just suddenly thought, no, no, you're

gonna, and that's when I said to Rob PI

found out there's a guy called Rob Paxman.

Um, XG Squadron got out early,

similar to me and a mate of mine.

In fact, my lawyer knew him.

And my lawyer said to him, why

don't you, why don't you fight Rob?

You know what I mean?

And I was like, alright,

I'll, I'll fight Rob.

Fuck it.

And we, we got this, we got this

fight on, and it made a lot of money.

And then I suddenly realised that I

could do good with this stuff, you

know, and I could make decent money.

And that's when I put the rumbles

on and I had SaaS versus seals

and all that sort of stuff.

Yeah.

And it was great.

And it gave me, it gave me direction.

It gave me something to focus on.

It gave me, you know, I was

so fortunate I got introduced

into the Peacock gym in London.

You know, I trained with Martin and Tony's

like, what a fucking great place to be

around people that want to achieve that

want to fucking push the boundaries.

That you are never gonna be

the hardest man in that gym.

You're always gonna have somebody

to push your fucking boundaries.

Do you know what I mean?

It was fucking exactly what I needed.

alex: And these guys are, are cs.

phil: Yeah.

alex: But because of their

relentless pursuit of, of

excellence and wanting to be

phil: the best.

Absolutely.

That absolutely.

You know what I mean?

They, they've become friends of mine.

Proper friends of mine.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

And you know, the, the links I've

got into boxing at the moment, we've,

we've with, um, you know, Wayne in

Stamp and Brian Garner, he's going

for a world belt this year in, in St.

Mary's.

I've been really blessed.

Boxing.

Boxing changed my life.

It really did.

To think I had my first

fight at 45 years old.

Do you know what I mean?

I'm hardly can call myself a boxer,

but I've spent some serious time in

the fucking ring now, you know, and

alex: you still cat punk to the

day, don't you, you, you still

phil: time put down Apar only

a light spa with, with, with,

with free power the other day.

Do you know what I mean?

You know, I, I, I'm, I'm blessed now

that I get to go to all these events

I've thrown up, you know, I get

invited to a lot of this stuff and

I love training with the troops now.

Do you know what I mean?

It's great.

It's great for me.

You know what I mean?

I suppose, you know, they

like having me along as well.

So it is, it's, it is, I'm

in a really good place at the

moment with that sort of stuff.

Do you know what I mean?

alex: Good.

phil: But I can't advocate to other people

enough that if your life is going in such

a direction, you need to put things beyond

alex: only you can control

your direction ultimately.

You can't you

phil: Yeah.

To put things in place

that you want to do.

alex: Yeah.

No one's gonna do it for you.

phil: Yeah, yeah.

No one wheel, no one's gonna, especially

as a bloke, no one's gonna do it for you.

No one's gonna turn around and

go, Phil, you know what I mean?

You fall off the wheel, you get

yourself back on the fucking wheel.

Yeah.

Some people will help you, sometimes,

but, you know, I had this, so Simon

Rus, who was stamp's interim manager

in the year that they struggled,

said to me, he said, you know, when

we lose, the dressing room's empty.

When you win, it's full.

The director's down, everybody's down.

And I, that's true in life as well.

You know, when you, when you winning,

when you're on the crested, the

wave, there's fucking every man and

his dogs patting you on the back.

alex: Yeah.

phil: As soon as you come off that wheel.

Fucking dumb goes.

Nobody wants to know.

Nobody cares.

You know what I mean?

You just, boom, you've gone in.

You know what I mean?

That's it.

So what, you know, you'll get the odd

person, but they won't stay for long.

And I've been there, been there

this year, you know what I mean?

See, the

alex: people that have really got your

back though, you know, who turn around and

phil: you definitely do, you know,

alex: help out.

And

phil: I'm blessed.

I've got a nucleus of people who look

after me and know when things are wrong.

Do you know what I mean?

And I've got, you know, similar

to yourself, you know, you, you've

reached out a couple of times and I

know that, do you know what I mean?

I know there's people out

there that have got my back.

alex: Yeah.

phil: And will help you

get back on your feet.

But there's also people trying

to rip you off your perch as

well, you know what I mean?

alex: Yeah, yeah.

Yes.

Well, more for them because they're, you

are hell bent on watching a number of

people fail and trying to drag them down.

It, there's a lot more about them and the

position there probably in than it does.

Well,

phil: you know, I had a, someone, so

I had a situation this year where,

you know, we, we, we, we were bridge

bridging caps and any, I know that people

couldn't invest as far as they wanted

to invest and all that sort of stuff.

And I understand that, and that was fine.

But when I find out that one person in

particular would've spent 40 pounds,

40 grand on a lawyer to fucking destroy

you as opposed to put 10 grand in to

help you bridge your gap at the end of

a month, that's, that's wrong, isn't it?

But that's the mentality of some people.

Do you know what I mean?

They pay 40 grand to

destroy you completely.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Sooner than give you 10 to

help you get over a fucking hurdle.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And that's been, that's like where

the, and I couldn't get me around.

No, it

alex: mad isn't, it.

phil: Couldn't get my,

you know what I mean?

I really couldn't.

And that's what you're

up against sometimes.

Well

alex: go to bed at night.

Do you have any regrets or anything?

Or are you gonna bed peaceful night?

phil: No, I'm, I'm quite, I'm

quite, look, I've done things in

my life that I'm not proud of.

I've done things that

I shouldn't have done.

And I've, I, you know, I've

been an absolute So you've

alex: owned them, but,

phil: but I have owned them.

I and I, by owning them, you, you,

you, you make peace with them.

It won't make what you did.

Right.

It never will.

But if you can learn from that

and if you can help other people

learn from that, you know, that's

a big thing for me now as well.

I'm in a position, I'm in a really, really

healthy position where, you know, I can,

I can approach the military, rolly walker.

On, I was in, I was in

the trees with Rolly.

Do you know what I mean?

I was on the same selection as rolly.

I can speak to Rolly on a level

where I actually know the bloke.

Do you know what I mean?

He's, he's a great guy, right?

He's a great guy.

So he's the top of the tree in

the military, CT s or whatever

it's, they call him now, right?

I can also walk into Harrogate with a

soldier that's been there for a week and

sit there and clean his weapon with him.

Do you know what I mean?

It's a unique position to be in.

I can talk to people on

a level, at any level.

Do you know what I mean?

At any level in the, in the British

military, I can sit down and I

can have a conversation around

that's a blessed place to be.

It really is.

Do you know what I mean?

There's people, you know, if I'd have sort

of like gone down this road of being an

honorary colonel or something like that,

people still got stand up when I walk

in the room and all that sort of stuff.

I don't want that, you know, all

the stuff I do with the military

is done as a bloke, as a trooper.

Yeah.

And that's that.

That's what I want to be.

But I realise that because of the

stature that I've got now, which

isn't huge, but it's enough that I

know that I can still talk to the

people at the very top who I know.

Do you know what I mean?

I know them.

alex: Yeah.

phil: It's a fucking

great place to bewick.

It really is.

And if I can make some difference, if

I can help other people, if I can make

people's lives better, and I'm not.

I'm never gonna do the thing

where I slag the military off.

You know, you could go on about

the food and the rats in the block

and I could go and take photographs

of Willy Barracks and all the rest

of the stuff that goes out there.

I'm not gonna do that if

I've got a major problem.

When I see something going wrong, I will

approach someone like the Army Star major

and say, oh, you might wanna have a look

at that, that, you know what I mean?

I don't need to do that publicly.

What I do wanna do is I wanna promote

the military in the best light possible.

A, to try and attract people in, but b,

to try and retain those that are there.

Because I know how fucking hard it

is when you get out and it, the grass

isn't fucking greener, but it is.

It's greener on your side.

Yeah.

It's not greener on this side.

I can tell that now.

Do you know what I mean?

It ain't greener on this side.

alex: Yeah.

phil: And you've got a

marvellous opportunity.

We we're gonna go into a period now where

you're gonna get, you're gonna get a lot

of bang for your buck in the military.

Yeah.

You're gonna be gonna do some

really cool stuff in the next

10 years, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

So it'd be a great time to be

in, do you know what I mean?

alex: Absolutely.

phil: It's come round, full circle again,

the gongs are gonna start going back up.

alex: It, and it always is, you

know, and even at that, you know,

you get travel world for free.

You got so many opportunities

in the military like world else.

Can you go ski in for under quid?

phil: Yeah, exactly That

alex: from we all inclusive, like, you

know, the 18, all of many perks, like,

and again, like when tours end up coming

to Bow and, you know, the, the war of tar

Afghanistan and Iraq, like rest in peace

to the guys that are, are no longer with

us and the guys that have suffered after.

But again, it's the

experiences you have from it.

There's such a small, the friendships

phil: you make the whole thing.

It's incredible.

The whole thing is just, it is just,

just think twice before you fucking start

signing off and doing that sort of stuff.

Do you know what I mean?

alex: Yeah.

phil: You know, if you don't like

where you are, if you genuinely

don't like where you are, I find

another job within the system.

alex: And also,

phil: there's plenty of stuff to do.

alex: Look at yourself

like, are you unhappy?

Unhappy, like, as a whole, or

are you just having a bad moment

if you having a bad moment?

phil: That's, that's big thing.

I mean, you can have bad moments.

You can have you, you can

have, I I've had bad moments.

alex: Yeah.

But don't, don't throw

your career away and

phil: No,

alex: definitely.

You're a bloke watching

Don't sign off for a woman.

I didn't just a lot of friends have.

No,

phil: I know what you're saying.

Yeah.

No, absolutely.

alex: Lot of friends have, and then

they're like, they, Mr. Leaving me, like

phil: CSA and stuff like that, that

gets wave blokes down and you know,

it's, there's always a way, if you

want to continue, there's always a way.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Own your shit.

Yeah.

There's always a way to get on with it.

Do you know what I mean?

Be honest.

Tell people you got problems.

Talk about your mental health.

That was a big thing for me in my day.

Mental health was absolutely taboo.

alex: No, I think

phil: it was, it, you

couldn't talk about it.

It in fact to the point that you felt,

you almost felt like if I say to people,

I'm struggling here, it's gonna go,

you're just trying to make up an excuse

for you, you, for your behaviour.

And I genuinely still feel like that now.

I, I so struggle with talking about

stuff, even though I've got probably, you

know, with the, with the, with the sexual

abuse that I suffered as a kid, I've

probably got quite a fucking, quite a deep

catalogue of shi going on in their lives.

You know what I mean?

I've always had to try and I've

always tried to deal with it myself.

And it's only the last few years that

I've started talking about it publicly.

And I, I've done it twofold.

A, to help myself, but b, to try

and help other people as well.

Because if people can't, if you haven't

got mental health yourself, that's

fine, but you still need to be able

to empathise with those that have

alex: Yeah.

phil: Do you know what I mean?

And I remember, you know,

I've, I've heard conversations.

I bloody go fucking just weak

man up, all that sort of stuff.

No bothers.

alex: Yeah,

phil: absolutely bothers.

And it's

alex: not weakness at all.

phil: You know, nobody

wants to be like that.

Nobody, you know what I mean?

And if it's fixable, it's fixable.

alex: No, nobody more so than

that person that is sat there.

phil: Yeah.

Because, and then what you're

doing, you just make them it by,

by them thinking that if you've

broker it with them, they're fucked.

Do you know what I mean?

So, yeah.

It's just, it is one of those things.

I had a conversation with a

brigadier about it the other day.

I told him, I, I struggled this year.

I, the black dog went on

my shoulders this year.

Do you know what I mean?

And it can happen at any time to anybody.

Do you know what I mean?

Don't think because you've never

had it, you're out the woods.

'cause all of a sudden I always say

you're sort like you're two poor decisions

away from a fucking catastrophes.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

You have too much to drink.

You clout someone, you're in the shit.

Boom.

Your whole life's over.

Do you know what I mean?

Done.

And that's how quick it can go.

Done.

alex: Yeah.

phil: That's how quick it

can go, you know, step.

So you're take step also, you're also

two good decisions away from putting it.

Right.

And the number one decision

has to be you own it yourself.

alex: Yeah.

phil: And the number two decision

has to be you speak to someone else.

Those are the only two

things you've gotta do.

And you're on the back.

I look at the chest.

There you go.

Do you know what I mean?

And you're off.

alex: Yeah.

phil: You're up running again.

Do you know?

alex: Yeah, absolutely.

People, we live in a world where

everything's so materialistic, isn't it?

Whereas, but if you can

break your good health.

Yeah.

Health is

your

phil: world.

My health is my wealth now.

Do you know what I mean?

You get to a stage where you

realise you've got what you've got.

Nothing wrong with trying to

improve that lot to a point.

But actually my main focus now is,

is my misses my dog, my kids myself.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Do you know what I mean?

Because stress is a huge killer of people.

Do you know what I mean?

Stress will kill you.

alex: Yeah.

phil: It's, no, I'm not making it up.

Do you know what I mean?

And I've nearly, you know, I've, I've,

I've, I've had the, I've had the high

blood pressure, I've had the hypertension,

I've got this, I've got that.

You know what I mean?

I've had the low testosterone,

all these sorts of things

that, you know, the menopause.

Yeah.

That's the thing.

It is a fucking thing.

And it had me on my fucking knees,

like, do you know what I mean?

Go and see the doctor, stop looking

online, stop self diagnosing, stop

fucking reading all this fucking shit.

Stop looking at influencers that

are flexing and going like that.

'cause that ain't you.

That's you.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Look at you.

Yeah.

Go and see the doctor.

He'll tell you what's going on.

alex: Yeah.

And let's touch on what i's

gonna say about health as well.

Wait, you lost a lot of weight over the

last couple of years ago, haven't you?

phil: Yeah, it's come down.

I'll put a little bit back on last

year, but it'll come off again.

I, I've just, I need to get on a

programme where it steadily comes off.

'cause I keep crashing it off fight

and then I'll crash it back on again

because as soon as I'll be fighting,

I've got nothing to train for.

I'll go back on the gabs and the booze.

Like, you know what I mean?

So it's not great, but

I am doing it this year.

I'm taking it really seriously.

I've, I've gone and seen a doctor.

I've had all my blood done.

I'm having my blood done every

fucking six weeks at the moment.

You know, I'm taking diet seriously.

I'm taking my training seriously.

Overdoing it at my age is a huge thing.

Do you know what I mean?

You think you can go in,

you think you're 20 again.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And you're like, geez,

why doesn't that work?

It doesn't work.

'cause it just doesn't work anymore.

You're too old.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

You've gotta, you've gotta,

you've gotta own that as well.

Yeah.

It's not to say that you can't do the

things you want do and look after what

you got, you know, if you are in your

forties and I sort like came off the wheel

in my forties a little bit and that's

why I'm probably behind the curve now,

but I've still got an engine in there.

It still works.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

And I still, you know, you still

get three good rounds outta me.

You still get, you know, you

still get a, a lot of outta me.

Do you know what I mean?

So it, it is, it's all,

it is all there to go for.

Do you know what I mean?

I still bench press hundred 40 kilos.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Which is some of my size

alex: is a lot.

And for people of your age, again, I'm not

calling you off, but majority of people

of your age can't stand up out of a chair

without the aid of their hands on paper.

phil: Yeah.

It's,

alex: it's insane.

I can still

phil: still get down, still

squat, do you know what I mean?

I still wear, do you know what I mean?

I'm happy.

alex: Exactly.

Do you know what I mean?

More than most can do.

phil: Yeah.

alex: So it's, yeah.

And it's that use it or lose it

phil: the earth sometimes

for, but it's, that's yeah.

Use it or lose it.

Yeah.

You've gotta keep it going.

And that's mentally, again, you've

gotta find something you enjoy.

It's no good getting on a fucking

treadmill if you're bored after

10 minutes, find something that

you actually satisfies your needs.

alex: Absolutely.

phil: Do you know what I mean?

You've gotta do it.

alex: You've gotta enjoy it.

You can't just do it because

it's the right thing to do.

No, it's better than doing nothing.

But there's so much stuff

out there, isn't there?

There's so much out you play Better than,

than if that's like gonna be your thing.

Like go,

phil: it's paddle tennis

nowadays, you know what I mean?

I speaking to Matt Lai the other

day, he does the old paddle

tennis now to keep himself going.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

alex: It's better than

sitting about doing nothing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

It is a fun factor of sport.

And badminton just popped

into my head because Ishm um.

A shuttle cock can travel at

250 miles an hour faster than

a tennis ball, ice hockey puck.

phil: Jesus.

alex: How about that?

phil: Yeah, imagine that

alex: that was like

proper, like off on St.

A Sting as well, wasn't it?

phil: Sting

alex: it.

Yeah.

If that catches your eyes.

Sat there laughing at cheers mate.

phil: IBUs.

But you're right.

You gotta find

alex: something.

Yeah.

Anything, anything to do is, is,

is better than doing nothing.

Um, let's touch a little bit on

some supplements that you used.

Yeah.

So just, you know, so you

take your health seriously.

phil: So for me, the sleep

stuff is a massive one.

The sleep stuff, the

magnesium, the ashwagandha.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Huge be And it does work.

It genuinely works.

Yeah.

Genuinely works.

My sleep pattern over the last sort of.

It's, it got destroyed doing

the anti-piracy stuff because

I was doing four on four off.

alex: Yeah.

phil: And I was doing like months of it.

So I got to this stage.

Even when I got home, I couldn't sleep for

more than four hours, which is not great.

alex: No.

phil: You know, you should

try and have seven to eight.

Really.

Do you know what I mean?

And people might agree or disagree,

but I tell you now, I feel happy

when I've had seven hours sleep

than might do when I've had four.

Yeah.

alex: Do you

phil: know what I mean?

And, and interrupted sleep is not good.

alex: No, it's not.

phil: So, you know, you're

gonna get things coming into

play when you're a bit older.

Like your bladder gets a bit

smaller, you have to get up to

pee and all that sort of stuff.

Do you know what I mean?

So that's gonna come into play anyway.

So the time that you, you wanna get

into this like rem sleep, don't you

wanna get into this proper sleep?

Yeah.

That gets you to that.

Some bonker streams not gonna lie.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Why aren't they down absolute

fucking rollercoasters?

Do you know what I mean?

But they go in the mornings,

do you know what I mean?

They're gone.

But when you're asleep, you're

like, wow, I'm proper asleep.

Yeah.

Which is good.

So that's, that's a big thing for me.

The, the sleep stuff is massive for me.

Um, the way I've always loved your

weight, I've always taken away is

as a supplement, especially when

I'm trying to get the weight down.

You know what I mean?

Because I want to keep, I wanna try

and maintain what muscle I've got left.

And at my age, that's massively important.

Yeah.

It's, but I also want to do

it in such a way where I'm not

just stuffing all the time.

Do you know what I mean?

alex: Yeah.

And it's easy and convenient.

Is it, it's a cost effective, easy

way to hit your daily fruit and gold.

phil: Yeah.

alex: And I had to put that time

out there for you as well, because

it is literally a jammy dodger

phil: mate.

That is, that is me.

That, that, that's a bit of me.

That's my favourite one.

I love that.

Well, the butterscotch

one's coming up there now.

It's, I think the butter scotch one.

Uh, creatine, creating massive input.

My doctor told me to say creatine.

alex: Yeah.

phil: My doctor said

Get the creatine in you.

Yeah.

Now you do the flavoured one now, right?

Yeah.

Which is, is a game changer because

sometimes, you know, sometimes I

forget to scoop it into my thing or

alex: Yeah.

phil: You can't just take it.

It's

alex: just like having squash, isn't it?

phil: It's like having squash so

alex: good.

phil: It's like I squashed.

So I absolutely rate that because it's,

it is, it is a, it is a doable form.

You can stick it in your bowl.

You've got a bottle of creatine with you.

You can dump it down like water.

So you're hydrating and you do it.

Yeah.

I hydrating stuff.

You do again.

alex: Yeah.

phil: I get, I get

cramps really bad cramps.

I don't get it if I take,

if, if I look after myself.

So your products really for me, that I use

are all designed about looking after me.

alex: Yeah.

And because there, you

phil: know what I mean?

alex: There's no snake oil sale

phil: ship.

It's not even so much about, it's

not, for me personally, it's not

even so much about the progression.

I'm not gonna be that bodybuilder now.

Do you know what I mean?

I'm not going to compete

at a massive level.

So for me, it's a survival thing for me.

It's doing the best thing for my body to

get myself to the next, to the next day.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Do you know what I mean?

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not

a combat fuel athlete.

I'm a combat fool.

I'm using it to, to, to enhance my life.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

I'm not, I do athletic things,

but I'm not an athlete.

Do you know what I mean?

I'm not, I I'm past those days.

alex: Oh no.

What?

I'm slightly disagree.

Like if you have a body,

you are an athlete.

phil: Okay.

alex: Absolutely.

Absolutely you are.

And you know how many guys or girls

are going around still boxing,

sparring, sparring free power, like

phil: it was good.

I enjoyed it.

I'll give you some

footage to bang on here.

alex: Praise to edit this

phil: in.

It was fun.

Well, I'll send you a, I'll send

you a little clip of me getting

me a kicked in by paratroopers.

Love it.

alex: It's before we finish the

film, let's, we got one bit of

advice for your younger self.

phil: Never, ever, ever

give up on anything.

Do you know what I mean?

Always believe, always believe that

there's something there to be had.

And if I'm honest, I should have

fucking listened more to people as well.

Do you know what I mean?

I, I was terrible for listening to people.

I always thought I knew better.

I always thought I could do

this, that and the other.

But actually it's, it's in my later years,

I looked around and think to myself, if

I'd have listened, if I'd have done that,

it would've been slightly different.

But on the positive side of that, I

wouldn't be in the position I am where

I've had made so many mistakes that I

can steer other people away from them.

Yeah.

' cause I've always said, if you don't,

if you never find out what it's like at

the Department of Trough, how can you

tell people what it was like at the top?

'cause they won't know you.

You've never been there.

Do you know what I mean?

I can't explain.

You've got to have been,

alex: yeah.

You gotta

phil: have those experience.

I would say you experience,

I've been that low.

I could get under a snake's

belly with a fucking top hand.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

So I've been down, I've

been down that road.

You can't explain, you can't

understand it until you've been there.

But I, at the same time, I

don't want people to go there.

I want 'em to learn without going there.

If you know what I don't, you know,

I'm not gonna advise the people.

I'll be as bad as you can because

that way you can learn, look

around and learn from other people.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

Because this progression is

made by stepping stones that are

already laid by other people.

Do you know what I mean?

We didn't get to the stage where we've got

electric lights, flat televisions and all

that by never having square televisions,

box televisions and no electricity.

alex: Yeah.

phil: It's a stepping stone.

So each, each generation

progresses by learning from

what the other generation did.

So all I'm trying to do is go right.

I'll put you on a platform there

to start your fucking journey from,

because mine started from down there.

Do you know what I mean?

alex: Absolutely.

Yeah.

phil: And I think that's important.

alex: What's the physical

piece of action someone can do?

Who's watching this to,

to level up their life?

Like to

phil: what they do?

Own yourself.

Own your, own your Look in the mirror.

Look in the mirror and have a

look at what comes back at you.

I, I, I said this to some footballers.

I, I I, I, I briefed a football team,

um, a, a a Premier league team and I went

and did some work with them and I said to

them, if you walk off that pitch at the

end of 90 minutes and look in the mirror

and you can say to yourself, I did the

best I could, and you've had a good day.

If you walk off and think, well, I

swerved that challenge or didn't quite

give it as much as I could have done

there, I hid behind the pack in that one.

You'll know.

You fucking know.

You can't bluff yourself.

Yeah.

So the only person who's planet you can't

lie to is right there in that mirror.

So get in there and debrief yourself.

Do you know what I mean?

Get in there and talk to yourself.

Go and ask yourself.

'cause when you're happy with

yourself, when you know that you

are doing the best you can and

you fucking know when you haven't.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Do you know what I mean?

Then, then, then you are owning stuff.

That's what owning stuff is.

alex: Yeah.

phil: Owning stuff is not just turning

up and saying, yeah, well I had a shit

day yesterday, but nobody fucking knew

or didn't get caught out owning it is

saying, yeah, I had a shit day yesterday.

I'm gonna fucking sort it

out now that's owning it.

Do you know what I mean?

alex: Absolutely.

Um, you also got a pretty successful

YouTube channel yourself as

well on social media, but where

can people find you common?

phil: Um, so yeah, big Phil Unfiltered

is, is my YouTube channel now.

Uh, obviously all my social media

is at Big Phil, Campion, TikTok,

uh, Instagram, Facebook, Facebook

page, all that sort of stuff.

You know what I mean?

So you can find me and yeah, I will be

continuing to branch out as much as I

can on my own social media platforms.

'cause I think that's where I'm at now.

That's, that's what I want to do.

That's where I've best effect now.

Do you know what I mean?

I think that's what I enjoy doing.

So yeah.

alex: Phil, thank you

for coming over here.

Thank for your service.

A pleasure to have you on,

phil: man.

No, no.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you.

Very nice man.

Alright.

Happy days.