00:00:00
Speaker 1: We're Nelly Threw the Winter by Round Grind. It's Round sixteen. Welcome to the cod AFL Show. I'm joined by Scott Gallen and Josh Barnes for today's episode, and we're going to talk about Sint Kilda off the top. We're all close personal friends of Ross Lyne and we want to have a chat about how the Saints are tracking.

00:00:15
Speaker 2: Well, what would Ross say, Barnsy He would spin it like, you know, there's more fish in the sea or some anotherg you love it. They're going okay, but they're reaching a point where they need to get really going a little bit better.

00:00:29
Speaker 3: It has not been a good forty eight hours at Moraman, that's for sure. He would go on a five minute long, wintered answer that doesn't really tell us much. That's what That's what his response would be. It hasn't been good. Jackson clear looks like he's gone probably the rest of the year. Tom mcconeneg has been in hospital. Rob Marsha's got a sore shoulder. Alex Taru is out for four weeks for another VFL suspension. The marathon here it's a bit of a nightmare and as a slipping the bird at people now. So it hasn't been a great sort of couple couple of days for the Saints. But I think the biggest problem for them right now is just a lack of grind underneath the stars. We all talked about the big spending all the time, but what was always going to carry some Kilda towards permits contention was those younger players taking steps up. Darcy Wilson has done it, but he's out of contract and has been hunted by everybody else in the land. Mataos Philipoo's playing twos, Toby Treli is playing two's Xsterru's not playing toos because he's suspended for playing twos. Like that's the issue with Sin Kilda right now. You haven't seen that improvement from them at the moment. It's really Maxwell and Darcy Wilson. And we don't know what Wilson's future is right now.

00:01:26
Speaker 4: Darcy Wilson not signing, you know, we're clicking into July. That's not a good sign.

00:01:32
Speaker 1: And I think there's some big money being thrown.

00:01:33
Speaker 2: Around his second contract. What on this market which is inflated pay.

00:01:41
Speaker 3: If Matasos Philippos is on a million dollars as we believe he is to be playing for and Kilda seconds. Darcy has to look at them in the face and say, how can I get paid any less one cent less than mataos Philippoo's. So that would be my starting point if I was Darcy Wilson's manager.

00:01:55
Speaker 1: So there's every chance that they scrape into the top ten. Still, they're at marvel stage for most of the remainder of the season that they don't leave Victoria. They've obviously got to contend with Jackson and Claire and Tom Deaconing being out. But does any of what you've seen so far from them this season effect that their two year strategy. Clearly they want to be in flag contention next season in the last year of Nassa Lang and Miller's contract. Is that realistic anymore?

00:02:19
Speaker 4: No, it's not.

00:02:20
Speaker 2: Even if they had a full strength team, I didn't think they were a top four capability. And what we're seeing is Tom da Coning hasn't gone to the next level now he's injured. Obviously, Sylvanni's been a tick. Ryan has been a tick obviously, But as Barnte said, they need they need more help fro Nairs and they need Gross and Wilson tick, but they're they're not a top four side. They alone pretending they're in the Premiership window. They're going to try and buy someone else, as we know. If they get another good in maybe, but no, they're a long way off it.

00:02:52
Speaker 1: For me matter, I think they have to buy again because in my view, Jack Sylvanni and Limarhan have been big ticks. But Sylvanni's twenty eight years old and Limbran's twenty nine win now players.

00:03:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Flanders is going to be out for probably most of the next year, so he's going to be rehabbing that Achilles for a long time. I think they're still a fair way away, but I think things can turn if they find a forward they can kick too. I think that's still the problem. They talked a lot last year about how they wanted two rucks because they wanted an extra big body on the field. That hasn't really turned into goals. But Max King is still a question mark and a mystery in an absence, and if he was in the goal square, I think there would be a lot better side because they're just still trying to kick it to Mitch Ollens and it's asking too much for him.

00:03:29
Speaker 2: I believe we've got this far into it without mentioning Max King. I mean, he's if he still exists, he's the hope of the side. I mean, in a perfect world he plays properly, they are significantly better team. But because then mich Allens can become a player that he's been asked to do so many different roles, I don't know what.

00:03:45
Speaker 4: Sort of player he is.

00:03:46
Speaker 2: So it's again sadly, it's all Max King, and the history says I wouldn't back that horse.

00:03:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't want to repeat myself from the top, but Jay our chief footy right. J Clarke wrote it pretty well a couple of weeks ago that they missed out or it seems like they missed out in a double draft a couple of years ago, and that was always going to be the key to them. They had the four year window they talked about, we want to hit the draft of four years. Then he want to buy players, and right now that draft hall doesn't look that great and that's where they were always going to be growing for what they hope was a flag window of five or longer years.

00:04:17
Speaker 1: I'm still bullish about or if he can stop coat hangerings in the VFL.

00:04:21
Speaker 3: What would you say to him, Scottie, because this is the third time he's been suspended, and he was suspended another time that got down graded to a fine, so that's four times.

00:04:28
Speaker 2: The old coaches ro he'd love the physicality. I mean, you can refine that. You can't teach it him to someone who hasn't got it. So I think the kid's a bit of second year blues. He's frustrated.

00:04:38
Speaker 4: His first year was all the flying Viking. Here we go. He's a cult hero and that hasn't happened.

00:04:43
Speaker 2: So I think he's just playing because he's a bit grumbling about life, and I think he'll be fine.

00:04:48
Speaker 1: Teams that won't be as grumbly about life are the ones in wild card contention at the moment. Previously their seasons would be probably almost on the rocks. But there's still a lot of hope for teams in the middle of the ladder like Melbourne g W since Kilda the Bulldogs. Do we think that on face value so far the introduction of wild card round has been a success.

00:05:08
Speaker 2: But I've been a flag bearer from day one. I know the negativity. I couldn't understand it because for this ready reason, we're here like North Melbourne, like Collingwood, secure teams that Carlton like we would have thought we would have written off Carlton.

00:05:21
Speaker 4: They're irrelevant.

00:05:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Josh Frazer is a nice side show that he's coaching well. But suddenly we're doing the sums and maybe they make tenth. I think it's the best thing the AFL has done for years. And you can argue whether it should be called a final and not. Okay, I don't know whether that you can argue that bit, but the fact we're talking, and we're going to be talking right up to the last round is what this comp should.

00:05:42
Speaker 3: Have absolutely agreed Scott. I thought maybe they should only have a ninth place wildcarde the first year we see how it goes. But I think the ten's working now for sure, because right now we would be cutting off the ladder and saying anyone below Brisbane in eighth isn't going to make the finals, and that leads us with ten teams with zero interest for the rest of the year. From Gold Coast we'd be saying they're not making it. So on the opposite end, we go all the way down to Carlton at fourteen, Portelid's probably out of the race, but it's not impossible, whereas they would be so far back it's not even worth ever mentioning their name. So it's a clear win and that means we're going to set ourselves up for a huge amount of games in the back end of the year. That actually means something instead of just watching Saint Kilda versus Carlton in round twenty two and thinking why would we bother showing up for that? That's a game that's going to shape the top ten. Carlton has six games in a row coming in the back end of the year against only wild card teams, so that's exactly what the AFL wants because Carlton fans will go to those games now.

00:06:34
Speaker 1: So it does work against seventh and eighth. Very hard to win a flag now if you're playing wild card round. If Brisbane didn't quite get their act together in the next two or three weeks and slipped to seventh, be very hard for them to defend their flag. But is it outweighed by having so many live games in the back end of the season.

00:06:51
Speaker 2: Hundred I say to them, teams have wins, will finish sixth. You've had enough chance to six finish sixth. If you don't the Bulldogs, it can have happened. Yeah, the well trained athletes. Yeah, just win five games in a row. Whatever it is, win five in a row.

00:07:05
Speaker 3: It's not that hard.

00:07:06
Speaker 4: It happens during the year, Okay, finals, it steps up a level. I don't agree with it.

00:07:12
Speaker 2: These teams suffer because they finished seventh and eight bad luck finished sixth.

00:07:16
Speaker 3: And I'm not one hundred percent sure it would rule a team like bridgmane out anyway. The last two years they lost that Qui final finally as Song, so they had to play four finals last year and they won the Grand Final in a canter and would have won a game if they played it the next week against whoever it would have been, So I think they were fine. Then the year before they had to go the long way outside the top four and won the flag. Then they were riding another wave of momentum and probably would have won the week after that too, So I've got no sort of concerns about a team. If you're good enough to do it, then you would win five games in a row. Brisbane won more than five games, and I'd bet on the way to both flags. So I don't think that's too much of a worry.

00:07:48
Speaker 1: Let's turn our gays north to the hangar where there's still a lot happening at Essendon and Scott you've been at the heart of this. You've been producing some extraordinary news for us in the last few weeks about Essendon. What's the latest from the.

00:07:59
Speaker 3: Bomb'stan Solomon just moved into the full time job already, Like what's going on?

00:08:03
Speaker 2: It seems that it's been positioned, it's heard v Solomon, and we're sort of almost forgetting an outside candidate potentially. Look as we stand here now, they still haven't told us the process, if there is a process. Basically, I think it's just setting up that Welsh wants Solomon. Ideally, he wants Solomon and Herd Herd as a coaching director or his right hand man.

00:08:26
Speaker 4: Herd doesn't want that. Herd wants to coach.

00:08:28
Speaker 2: I think he would like Solomon as part of his team, but he wants to be the top dog.

00:08:32
Speaker 4: So then he got Sheedy and all those marshaling that side of it.

00:08:36
Speaker 2: So it's sort of the boys club is split. But I think it's more and more going to be one of them. It's not like like John Lomer is not going to do it. I doubt where they're going to run through assistant coaches and bother doing that. I wouldn't if I was there, Like, why haven't pretend process? If really he's going to end up Heard or Solomon. So it's probably going to come down to the favorite sons. And yeah, we had a story saying that, you know, four years ago, solely went through it. He finished fifth out of five. That's fine, that was four years ago. Since then, he's done tweedtheads years. Why that's important is because the argument against Herd is he hasn't done anything. Forty well Heard was at least involved in the VFL, so you could argue, well, what's solely done compared with they're both sort of still.

00:09:22
Speaker 4: I still believe they both could do it because I'm not this. You have to be in footy for you know, you have to know what's going on. Now. I think you can get people around you to help. So I just think it's going to be Heard v. Solomon.

00:09:34
Speaker 2: And the next step is whether Welsh comes out with an actual process.

00:09:38
Speaker 3: You've been on top of this the whole time. Can do you have any insight why Solomon is the number one man? Apart from being friends with Andrew Welsh, we haven't seen really anything at all externally from his coaching so far.

00:09:49
Speaker 2: Well, I think the friendship with Welsh, and I think the belief from Welsh is that solely to galvanize his club he needs to do it an essen person, which he is. He's a here and he is, He's well liked, he's strong people person, good motivator. So I think he just says that's the type Welsh has convinced himself that's and does Herd fit that well, I think there'd be a power play like Herd just brings his aura and he's the messiah. Does the president does that lesson his you know, it's all about it hegoes, And I don't think Welsh and heard as close as maybe they once were in a friendship sense.

00:10:24
Speaker 4: So I think it's just Welsh decided of farewell.

00:10:28
Speaker 2: Ago when he puts Solomon off the board into assistant coach and then Brad got sacked that this is the character I want leading the new essendent, so he's potentially going to stick with it.

00:10:39
Speaker 3: I have to respect that if that's the way Welsh's going in terms of just making your own calls and not hiding behind bringing in in all these outside people to interview thirty people and then blaming them if something goes wrong. If you want to go a direction, then you should do it. That's why you're in charge of a football club. So whether it goes right or wrong, I think that is the right path to be going down instead of sending it out to someone else to make your decision for you.

00:11:00
Speaker 1: Scott, thanks playing a big role in that segment. We're going to kick you out now and get Corey Mabilio from Champion Data in for a weekly stats.

00:11:07
Speaker 4: Here pleasure.

00:11:12
Speaker 1: Corey. Welcome back to the Code AFL show studio. Obviously during the by rounds things quite down a bit and people start to get a bit distracted from footy. A lot of the talk and the footy media has been your fire pit that you're working on.

00:11:24
Speaker 5: Good pickup, No, I've done myself. A little bit of a missis on one hand, but we've come through the other end. I just can't wait for it to be done.

00:11:31
Speaker 3: To be honest with you, more serious or less serious than Jesse Hogan's finger injury. At the moment, he's out for one to two.

00:11:37
Speaker 5: One to two. That put me on ice for about four to five. So it was pretty serious.

00:11:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, we are all excited for when when the fire pit is ready to use and we can get amongst it with all the champion data. Boys, let's have a look at Collingwood. I think you've got some numbers that are popping off the page for the Pies over the last couple of weeks.

00:11:52
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:11:53
Speaker 5: Look, their list has been widely spoken about at length.

00:11:56
Speaker 3: And if you ask the coach, it has been Yeah.

00:11:59
Speaker 5: Well it's going to be an ongoing talking point, isn't it, for not only this year but in years to come. Just kind of wanted to highlight two of the veterans out are playing really good football. John to Goo he'd been spoken about in recent weeks and more just the change in his role. So you look at his role since round nine, spending predominantly more game time as a midfielder. Prior to that, it was a bit of a fifty to fifty split. You look at him since round nine, averaging twenty seven disposals, ten score involvements, Like the damage is back into his game, which has kind of always been with to go, but now he's doing it over a sustained period of time. And kind of the underrated facet to his game is his ball use, which I don't think is really getting recognized or spoken about.

00:12:37
Speaker 4: Number one rated field kick.

00:12:39
Speaker 5: In the competition this year, competition across the whole competition, across twenty twenty six, not just pigeonholing a certain number of rounds. And then you look at him when he kicks inside fifty, Colin would have scored forty eight percent of the time, which is the highest rate of any player in the competition. So nearly every one in two times he kicks inside fifty, Colin would have scoring.

00:12:58
Speaker 3: And that was happening on the weekend. He was picking out two member in the pockets for pick kicks that weren't just bombs to the top of the square. So he has a bit of nuance in his end, which I'm not sure we always thought about with Jordy.

00:13:07
Speaker 5: Definitely, Yeah, he's going really well. I think he's one that falls out of contract next year, but he's playing quite well to to get a good deal.

00:13:16
Speaker 1: One of the other veterans of sense to be going all right, it's Jeremy Howe.

00:13:19
Speaker 5: Yes number two rated key defender since round nine, intercepting back through the roof ball used to this year top fifteen field kick across the competition. You look at him since round nine, averaging over twenty disposals, one of his highest rated six week stretches over the last five years.

00:13:34
Speaker 1: He's another one.

00:13:35
Speaker 5: He falls out of contract this year, so a bit of interesting. Like I said off the top, I think the colling would list not only this year. It's going to be a continual talking point.

00:13:45
Speaker 3: How going around again?

00:13:46
Speaker 4: Ed?

00:13:46
Speaker 1: I was about to ask you that question though, Do you think he'd want to again?

00:13:49
Speaker 3: It's tricky when you got those four. Really, it's sidebottom memory. How Impenderbury you probably have to weigh up. I think if he stays fit, he goes again. But suddenly, you very quickly, he stuff in the situation where you could talk yourself into all of them and they just can't do that once more.

00:14:04
Speaker 1: My hunch would be that Pendlebury is the most keen out of the three to keep playing.

00:14:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, all four of them have told us at various times they want to keep going, so they're all in okay form. Like remember, he's kicking goals at the moment, Penburbury was out injured, but he's had a good year. So they're going to head back down that road again.

00:14:21
Speaker 1: By looks and Carlton, what's the latest with them, because we keep trying to crunch what has changed since Josh Fraser took over this side.

00:14:29
Speaker 5: Yeah, look, there's a lot of yeah and rightfully so like if you're a Carlton fan, I think you have to be September dreaming now and they're a legitimate chance of featuring in the wild card round. Just one player in particular before we jump into the team stuff, Sam Walsh. I think he was one who needed the bite have freshened up. He looked really banged up in that Essendon game. He's reprogrammed the way he plays and you look at his contested possession rate, it's the lowest in his career. So now I think you watch Sam Walsh in twenty twenty six, it's more the outside his leg driving his Dammy is back to his game career high number of score involvements when he's involved in a chain Colin So Carlton have scored nearly one in every three times he's been involved in a chain which is the highest return in his career. You only have to go back the SAT Day thirty four disposals, one goal, nine score involvements. That crucial goal was on the three quarter time sigen to give him that energy. I think he's one that I think we need to recognize, just the reprogramming of his role in the side and the benefits that they've followed.

00:15:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, the dream I think for always for Carton fans was that patricoeps would win it and handle it to Walsh you could run away. Are we seeing that now as he's sort of going away from the contest a little bit while maybe that step outside.

00:15:38
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think you're just playing to your strengths and Crips is you know what you're going to get with Crips. Hewitt's the other one who's come back in since being omitted top ten rated player on the ground in four of the six games he's come back in, and Hewartt is one who's actually starting to impact on the scoreboard, which hasn't never necessarily been his strong suit in recent years. But like I said, off the top with Carlton, if you look at their run home into September the sixth easiest draw of any side in the competition. I think it's a no brainer. They have to bank their next two against Richmond and West Coast and then they're lidded with wild card games. I think that's going to be a fascinating watch. In the back end of the year. They play Collingwood, Gold Coast, Brisbane, Saint Kilda, the Bulldogs they finished with Freo. Who knows what side Frio will roll out in round twenty four. They don't leave Melbourne also in that kind of yeah from now onwards, So yeah, a bit of a watch. I think with them behind the ball, they've really short up the second best defensive unit in the competition. They'll fifteenth under Voss. But credit to VOSSI this was starting to turn at the end of his tenure. I think Fraser has been a little bit of the beneficiary, but no doubt the stuff behind the ball has been no chalk and cheese.

00:16:51
Speaker 1: So assist for Michael Voss there with the interim coach bounce, Thanks very much for coming in, Corey. We'll see you on the weekend hopefully.

00:16:57
Speaker 5: Thanks for having me.

00:17:02
Speaker 1: Scott's back in the studio and it's time for our new weekly segment. The second edition of I Call BS kicked off with controversy last week. We've got some readers submissions that we're going to read out. We'll start off with Mark and Adelaide, and I just want to shout out Mark here for it's a very poignant message. There's a lot of commas and punctuation. It's fantastic. I want to see more of it. Mark says the stand rule in the AFL is the worst rule ever. Elite athletes the best in the world watching their opponent run past.

00:17:29
Speaker 3: I've always been a standard apologist, so I think the good outweighs the bad, and I think we get caught up in the one or two fifty minute peneties every three games that look bad compared to the actual impact on the game. But I do think it is probably the most divisive rule we've ever had.

00:17:45
Speaker 2: It's helped the game flow and better scoring. I think you can't argue that it's a bit childish to stand the instructions.

00:17:52
Speaker 4: They are a bit like school kids, so.

00:17:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think overall, I think it's helped the game get better.

00:17:57
Speaker 1: I think there's something reassuring in the vulgar mobility that the player on the mark has not been able to move anywhere, helpless as the ball flies passed inside fifty on a forty five deg angle.

00:18:07
Speaker 3: I did like the AFL had to tell the players it doesn't mean freeze, you just have to stand.

00:18:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, well thanks that mark. The next one is Noddy from Calgooley and w A. Noddy says, how hard is it for the AFL to make sure that there is no overlap when there are only two games in a day.

00:18:24
Speaker 3: I don't understand how this happened on Sunday tonight. I know you have to have a three o'clock game for the host broadcasts that are going to the news, but when there's two games on a day on Sunday, it's surely you just don't overlap them.

00:18:37
Speaker 4: I think, and we can flow into it. They're killing Sundays.

00:18:40
Speaker 2: I know that I'm pumping up Thursday and Friday, but some of these matches are unwatchable and Sundays are viewing families, and yeah, you like to you do your thing on a Sunday and then you watch the forty on the TV.

00:18:52
Speaker 4: In some of these games, they have to address that. So I went off on a ramp, but I agree.

00:18:56
Speaker 1: Someday you can usually watch the three fifteen d's at least Wayne from Victoria, Thanks Wayne for tell us where you are. Carlton wins a few games and suddenly it's a fairy tale coaching story. Settle Pedals, ah me, what.

00:19:12
Speaker 2: He's done, I agree, But what he's done got He's taken a team that were hopeless under Parl Michael Mooss and they're winning games and they're looking exciting. And yeah, we're not saying they're going to win the flag, but they were one and eight and this guy has he's.

00:19:28
Speaker 4: Got a magic touch. We've got to promote it.

00:19:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. I am doing a story for coach Will to be able to read on Saturday. I believe about the differences between David T and Josh Fraser, and looking back at David T's record, Carlton's in a worse spot then, but they were going like a busted compared to Fraser. I think he went five and six in his run before being appoint in the job, so he wasn't on fire. So Fraser's gone five and zip. There should be more of a grants while buying him. This is remarkable territory really and they're winning good games, so I don't think we should settle pedals. I think we should go even harder.

00:19:57
Speaker 1: I have to come forward and call bs on mys off. After my maiden segment last week where I poured cold water over Carlton's top ten hopes, I feel like I'm sort of two weeks behind on the Fraser freight train, like I haven't fully come around to how good they could actually be. But beating GWS on the road like that was so impressive, and I've definitely reviewed them a little bit. They're not quiet in my top ten. I'm a pretty good ladder right now, but I am giving them a live chance now. And I was too hard on Carton last week. To Blue supporters, I apologize.

00:20:25
Speaker 4: Oh that's nice.

00:20:26
Speaker 2: I'm bsing the league, censoring players, calming down, threatening that you know, let to.

00:20:32
Speaker 4: We're living in this state where you're not let to.

00:20:34
Speaker 1: You can't say anything these days exactly.

00:20:36
Speaker 4: So yes, we know there's a line, and I'm not sure.

00:20:39
Speaker 2: Joy Simpkins, expressing his disappointment that his teammate got suspended again, warrants a crackdown and threats of thousands of dollars of fines.

00:20:49
Speaker 4: I think we're just calmed down.

00:20:52
Speaker 2: We know the line, Damian Hardwick repeater fander, Yes, you talk to him, calm down with the censorship.

00:20:57
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:20:58
Speaker 3: I think North Mormon cave to bet on the joy Simpkin and stuff. I assumed there was some kind of call with the OFL and then they just want to Joe Simon and said take it down. And I think that's just rubbish. They should have backed their man who was backing their other man in that situation. So I thought that was Paul. I'm calling bs on the seagulls at the MCG. I'm sick of it. There has to be a solution. There were more seagulls than there were fans in the crowd, I reckon in the second half of Collinwood versus Port Adelaide. It was a shocker in terms of the gals out there. We need to find some kind of solution. I know Dale Thomas says we should just put chips out in the park outside the ground and they'll go do that. There has to be some kind of better way to fix it because there were too many around.

00:21:30
Speaker 1: We used to have some fake eagles that worked with some success, but I think the seagulls have worked that out. How about some real eagles? Mcg like, can we get a budget for that?

00:21:37
Speaker 4: There?

00:21:37
Speaker 3: It used to be over in Perth, said the eagle, didn't they I don't know. I don't know if it's turistic. I don't think we have many eagles in Victoria.

00:21:43
Speaker 1: I think he was used as a deterrent. That eagle. I think he was just a mascot that was released and flew back.

00:21:47
Speaker 4: We hit all the big issues here on.

00:21:50
Speaker 1: There are six days left in the financial year and Scott has to run off to a zoom meeting with his accountants. So we're winded up from here, but you can enjoy it around sixteen fell coverage on the Code, Sports and Herald, some websites. That's all from us today. We'll see you in round seventeen.