c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/5-0
00:00:03.432 --> 00:00:08.589
the VP of Product Strategy and Management
at UCare. For those who don't know,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/5-1
00:00:08.589 --> 00:00:14.076
UCare is an independent nonprofit health
plan providing health care administrative

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/5-2
00:00:14.076 --> 00:00:19.234
services through the end of 2025 to 600,
000 members throughout Minnesota and

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/5-3
00:00:19.234 --> 00:00:24.523
parts of Western Wisconsin. Since then,
UCare has transitioned its Medicaid and

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/5-4
00:00:24.523 --> 00:00:27.432
ACA membership and product lines to
Medica.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/6-0
00:00:27.672 --> 00:00:29.352
Dan,
thank you so much for joining us today.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/7-0
00:00:29.912 --> 00:00:32.072
No, thank you for having me.
Excited to be here.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/9-0
00:00:32.712 --> 00:00:38.227
So let's talk about this transition.
I think I understand that regional health

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/9-1
00:00:38.227 --> 00:00:42.904
plans may be in trouble.
And you said you care maybe a canary in a

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/9-2
00:00:42.904 --> 00:00:47.791
coal mine in receivership went from 6
billion in revenue in 24 to $0.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/9-3
00:00:47.791 --> 00:00:52.747
00 now since it's been transitioned to
Medica. So talk to me about it.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/9-4
00:00:52.747 --> 00:00:54.632
How did you end up in that?

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/10-0
00:00:54.672 --> 00:00:58.713
in that space and then I think I'd like
to move into kind of actions to have

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/10-1
00:00:58.713 --> 00:01:01.966
prevented it potentially with analytics,
but we'll get there.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/10-2
00:01:01.966 --> 00:01:06.060
So just talk to me about what's been
going on and how you think this might be

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/10-3
00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:06.952
a national trend.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/12-0
00:01:08.232 --> 00:01:11.998
Yeah, no, I appreciate you asking.
It's a big question.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/12-1
00:01:11.998 --> 00:01:16.369
It's a loaded question.
There are a number of different factors.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/12-2
00:01:16.369 --> 00:01:20.740
I mean, you know, you care,
like a lot of regional health plans,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/12-3
00:01:20.740 --> 00:01:25.178
heavily reliant on government programs
and whether it's Medicaid,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/11-0
00:01:22.752 --> 00:01:23.232
Mhm.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/12-4
00:01:25.178 --> 00:01:26.792
Medicare Advantage, etc.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/14-0
00:01:27.592 --> 00:01:32.695
Medicaid in particular from a rates that
were set by the state have been

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/14-1
00:01:32.695 --> 00:01:37.797
challenging and really disadvantaged
organizations, I think, like UCare.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/14-2
00:01:37.797 --> 00:01:42.830
But that being said, you know,
like a lot of regional plans, they also,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/14-3
00:01:42.830 --> 00:01:48.422
UCare was looking to diversify and not
just be tied to one state or one region,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/14-4
00:01:48.422 --> 00:01:48.632
but

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/15-0
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expand elsewhere.
And there is a lot of resources,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/15-1
00:01:53.094 --> 00:01:58.431
time and sophistication that's needed to
expand into other states,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/15-2
00:01:58.431 --> 00:02:02.414
whether it's Medicaid or other lines of
business.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/15-3
00:02:02.414 --> 00:02:07.432
And that's really hard for regional plans
to kind of scale up.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/16-0
00:02:07.752 --> 00:02:14.687
and be able to do that efficiently,
as well as just overall managing a book

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/16-1
00:02:14.687 --> 00:02:21.804
of business during what the industry has
seen on the health insurance side of

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/16-2
00:02:21.804 --> 00:02:25.272
really high volume, high cost of care,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/18-0
00:02:26.872 --> 00:02:31.753
a lot of things coming out of the
pandemic and, you know,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/18-1
00:02:31.753 --> 00:02:35.961
emerging trends and skyrocketing MLRs,
et cetera.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/18-2
00:02:35.961 --> 00:02:42.525
The analytics that a regional plan needs
to be able to dig into this and make

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/17-0
00:02:40.352 --> 00:02:40.912
Mmh.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/18-3
00:02:42.525 --> 00:02:46.312
actionable steps is a real challenge
because

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/20-0
00:02:47.512 --> 00:02:50.227
You know, regional plans are kind of,
you know,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/20-1
00:02:50.227 --> 00:02:54.188
doing a lot of stuff with rubber bands
and paper clips and, you know,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/20-2
00:02:54.188 --> 00:02:57.695
whatever they have to do to get by
because they're nonprofit.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/19-0
00:02:54.952 --> 00:02:55.192
Yeah.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/20-3
00:02:57.695 --> 00:03:01.485
Every dollar they make goes back into the
community kind of thing.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/20-4
00:03:01.485 --> 00:03:05.672
But when you get in hard times like this,
there needs to be a strategy of

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/21-0
00:03:06.072 --> 00:03:10.840
how are you going to invest in the
analytics infrastructure and care

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/21-1
00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:16.369
management infrastructure to be able to
manage enough to get through these laws

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/21-2
00:03:16.369 --> 00:03:19.272
that come and working in health insurance?

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/23-0
00:03:19.672 --> 00:03:22.817
So Dan,
I appreciate you bringing us into the

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/23-1
00:03:22.817 --> 00:03:28.219
analytics portion of the conversation.
You said that though there were outside

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/23-2
00:03:28.219 --> 00:03:32.800
industry factors, for example,
reimbursement rates in Wisconsin or

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/22-0
00:03:32.232 --> 00:03:34.232
Minnesota, yeah, yeah.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/23-3
00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:37.792
Minnesota and reduction in Medicaid
funding from the federal government,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/24-0
00:03:38.952 --> 00:03:43.490
So therefore, it wasn't all UCare's fault.
You did say that they may have over,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/24-1
00:03:43.490 --> 00:03:47.744
UCare may have overplayed its hand
strategically and actions may have been

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/24-2
00:03:47.744 --> 00:03:51.941
taken that could have prevented its
insolvency if they had some quick and

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/24-3
00:03:51.941 --> 00:03:56.252
wise investments in analytics to generate
potentially real-time analysis of

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/24-4
00:03:56.252 --> 00:03:59.032
performance of its provider network and
product.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/25-0
00:03:59.512 --> 00:04:02.737
So that's a whole lot of preamble to ask
you,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/25-1
00:04:02.737 --> 00:04:08.557
what sort of top data points do you think
Wish U Care had access to last year that

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/25-2
00:04:08.557 --> 00:04:13.325
might have prevented insolvency and
instead of taking you down to a

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/25-3
00:04:13.325 --> 00:04:16.690
receivership,
instead might have increased your

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/25-4
00:04:16.690 --> 00:04:17.672
profitability?

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/27-0
00:04:19.032 --> 00:04:22.169
Yeah,
I think you hit the nail on the head with

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/27-1
00:04:22.169 --> 00:04:25.110
that question. It's the tricky thing,
right,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/27-2
00:04:25.110 --> 00:04:30.012
about being a health plan and health
insurance is like everything that you

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/27-3
00:04:30.012 --> 00:04:33.542
look at is almost like three months in
arrear, right?

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/27-4
00:04:33.542 --> 00:04:39.032
Because claims come in and you're always
kind of looking retrospectively at things.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/26-0
00:04:34.312 --> 00:04:34.432
Yeah.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/29-0
00:04:39.272 --> 00:04:43.951
And then you also have to realize if
you're seeing a trend Q1,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/29-1
00:04:43.951 --> 00:04:49.817
that's probably going to exacerbate
itself and be even worse Q4 kind of thing.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/28-0
00:04:48.232 --> 00:04:48.872
Mhm.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/29-2
00:04:49.817 --> 00:04:55.610
And so just knowing that you're always
looking at the very, very least 9, 12,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/29-3
00:04:55.610 --> 00:04:58.952
15 months ahead,
maybe even 18 months ahead,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/30-0
00:04:59.272 --> 00:05:04.962
of like, where's the trend going?
And so if you don't have the type of data

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/30-1
00:05:04.962 --> 00:05:09.529
tools to be able to,
when you get those initial red flags of

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/30-2
00:05:09.529 --> 00:05:13.048
like, hey,
our risk-based capital is looking a

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/30-3
00:05:13.048 --> 00:05:17.914
little bit out of whack,
or we're seeing really high increase in

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/30-4
00:05:17.914 --> 00:05:19.112
utilization with

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/31-0
00:05:19.352 --> 00:05:26.080
key providers or key segments of services
being delivered, that if you can't, one,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/31-1
00:05:26.080 --> 00:05:32.807
identify those right away, because again,
you're looking three months in a rear at

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/31-2
00:05:32.807 --> 00:05:36.293
least,
and then if you're not able to take

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/31-3
00:05:36.293 --> 00:05:37.752
action and realize

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/33-0
00:05:37.992 --> 00:05:43.134
here are the things we do because every
action you take probably takes three to

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/33-1
00:05:43.134 --> 00:05:47.118
six months to implement.
So I don't know if this makes sense,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/32-0
00:05:43.712 --> 00:05:44.312
Mm-hmm.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/33-2
00:05:47.118 --> 00:05:52.324
but just to try to simplify it is that if
you don't intervene at the very moment

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/33-3
00:05:52.324 --> 00:05:56.952
that you understand what the potential
issue is and what's going on and

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/34-0
00:05:57.432 --> 00:06:01.407
implement action steps,
then you're probably 6, 9,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/34-1
00:06:01.407 --> 00:06:07.330
12 months out before you actually see any
results of anything you're doing.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/34-2
00:06:07.330 --> 00:06:13.721
And at that point, it's too late. I mean,
that's how you go from 6 billion to $0.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/34-3
00:06:13.721 --> 00:06:15.592
00 in 12 months, is that

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/35-0
00:06:15.952 --> 00:06:20.518
It's just, you can't hesitate.
You have to have good data at the time

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/35-1
00:06:20.518 --> 00:06:25.083
you recognize there is a significant
issue and you have to be able to

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/35-2
00:06:25.083 --> 00:06:30.236
implement steps to correct those issues,
renegotiate contracts with providers,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/35-3
00:06:30.236 --> 00:06:34.671
vendors, et cetera, you know,
better leverage what your value-based

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/35-4
00:06:34.671 --> 00:06:39.106
care agreements look like.
If you don't have those analytical tools

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/35-5
00:06:39.106 --> 00:06:40.672
in place to do that more

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/37-0
00:06:40.752 --> 00:06:44.308
for real time.
In challenging times like this,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/37-1
00:06:44.308 --> 00:06:48.318
it's really,
really difficult for a regional plan to

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/37-2
00:06:48.318 --> 00:06:54.371
do it. Because if you're a national plan,
you've got leverage, you've got size.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/37-3
00:06:54.371 --> 00:06:57.852
They took hits.
They lost a lot of money too,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/37-4
00:06:57.852 --> 00:06:59.592
but they could bear it.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/38-0
00:06:59.672 --> 00:07:04.121
right, your regional plan,
the margin for error is so much more

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/36-0
00:07:00.232 --> 00:07:00.392
Ahh.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/38-1
00:07:04.121 --> 00:07:07.458
smaller.
And so you have to take more immediate

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/38-2
00:07:07.458 --> 00:07:09.752
action and have more timely data.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/39-0
00:07:10.232 --> 00:07:15.766
So Dan, you're begging the question,
why didn't the executive leadership team

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/39-1
00:07:15.766 --> 00:07:21.087
at UCARE take preemptive action to
renegotiate contracts to kind of obtain

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/39-2
00:07:21.087 --> 00:07:26.691
some kind of analytical solution that
provided more real-time insight into the

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/39-3
00:07:26.691 --> 00:07:31.516
trends affecting their user base?
And what kind of data issues were

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/39-4
00:07:31.516 --> 00:07:34.992
preventing these insights from being
arrived at?

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/40-0
00:07:35.592 --> 00:07:36.672
In a more real-time manner.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/41-0
00:07:38.712 --> 00:07:41.241
You know,
I wish I could say it was like pretty

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/41-1
00:07:41.241 --> 00:07:45.668
straightforward and it was just, you know,
lack of attention to detail or something

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/41-2
00:07:45.668 --> 00:07:49.567
like that, but that was not the case.
It was more complex than that. And,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/41-3
00:07:49.567 --> 00:07:53.677
you know, it goes back to prior years,
the nature of some of these government

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/41-4
00:07:53.677 --> 00:07:56.312
programs not being diversified in your
portfolio.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/43-0
00:07:57.032 --> 00:08:00.855
You know,
there's data issues that in terms of

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/43-1
00:08:00.855 --> 00:08:07.363
what's relayed and received with the
state, with CMS, et cetera. And, you know,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/43-2
00:08:07.363 --> 00:08:12.244
quite frankly, again,
regional plans have to do things in a

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/43-3
00:08:12.244 --> 00:08:16.312
very cost conscious matter.
I'll put it that way.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/46-0
00:08:16.632 --> 00:08:20.909
And so, you know,
investing in the technologies that are

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/42-0
00:08:16.712 --> 00:08:17.192
Mhm.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/46-1
00:08:20.909 --> 00:08:24.361
out there,
I don't know if they're as readily

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/46-2
00:08:24.361 --> 00:08:29.463
available as they are now,
especially with the advent of AI and how

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/44-0
00:08:25.952 --> 00:08:26.432
Mhm.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/46-3
00:08:29.463 --> 00:08:34.341
those tools are, you know,
more affordable to plans of all size.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/46-4
00:08:34.341 --> 00:08:35.992
I just don't know that

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/47-0
00:08:36.072 --> 00:08:40.862
they were there at the time. And so,
again, a number of different factors,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/45-0
00:08:37.232 --> 00:08:37.712
Mhm.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/47-1
00:08:40.862 --> 00:08:43.864
technology,
the nature of government programs,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/47-2
00:08:43.864 --> 00:08:48.398
and also just not having ever been in
this situation before. You know,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/47-3
00:08:48.398 --> 00:08:51.592
you don't know what you don't know at
some point.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/48-0
00:08:51.992 --> 00:08:57.636
So let's go back in time and say that
right now, instead of in June of 2026,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/48-1
00:08:57.636 --> 00:09:01.448
you're the CEO of UCare,
and we're in June of 2024.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/48-2
00:09:01.448 --> 00:09:06.286
Knowing what you know now,
what decisions do you make to preserve

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/48-3
00:09:06.286 --> 00:09:07.752
the future of UCare?

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/49-0
00:09:09.512 --> 00:09:14.014
So you're asking if it's June 2024,
what would I have done differently?

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/49-1
00:09:14.014 --> 00:09:14.952
I mean, it's...

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/50-0
00:09:14.072 --> 00:09:19.955
What could you do now as CEO in 2024,
knowing exactly what's going to happen in

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/50-1
00:09:19.955 --> 00:09:21.352
the next two years?

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/53-0
00:09:21.992 --> 00:09:25.273
Yeah, I mean,
it's hard to play Monday morning

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/51-0
00:09:24.872 --> 00:09:25.352
Yeah.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/53-1
00:09:25.273 --> 00:09:31.206
quarterback. I mean, well, it's not hard,
actually. It's easy, right? But, you know,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/53-2
00:09:31.206 --> 00:09:35.534
in the moment, that's a tough call.
I think just being aware,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/53-3
00:09:35.534 --> 00:09:38.675
I would just say to anybody, like,
you know,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/53-4
00:09:38.675 --> 00:09:43.352
it's time tells that when you're in the
health insurance industry,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/54-0
00:09:43.592 --> 00:09:48.847
there are peaks and valleys.
And we are in or have been in a pretty

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/52-0
00:09:45.352 --> 00:09:45.832
Mhm.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/54-1
00:09:48.847 --> 00:09:54.952
significant valley with the cost of care
and kind of what we're going through.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/55-0
00:09:57.272 --> 00:10:04.078
you know, I think when you're at the peak,
you just need to make sure that you're

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/55-1
00:10:04.078 --> 00:10:08.726
preparing for the worst.
And nobody wants to hear that.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/55-2
00:10:08.726 --> 00:10:13.872
But when it's riding high,
just making sure not to overextend

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/55-3
00:10:13.872 --> 00:10:17.192
oneself, but also taking the opportunity

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/56-0
00:10:17.352 --> 00:10:22.375
to reinvest in kind of fundamental
infrastructure to make sure that you can

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/56-1
00:10:22.375 --> 00:10:26.672
anticipate what's going to come,
deal with what's going to come.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/56-2
00:10:26.672 --> 00:10:31.629
Because again, it just never fails.
If there's a peak in health insurance,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/56-3
00:10:31.629 --> 00:10:35.992
there's going to be a valley,
and you just have to be prepared to

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/57-0
00:10:36.392 --> 00:10:42.067
ride that out and make sure you make the
right investments when you're at your

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/57-1
00:10:42.067 --> 00:10:43.432
peak revenue times.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/58-0
00:10:42.872 --> 00:10:47.156
I'd like to double click on the data
issues that we were speaking of. If you,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/58-1
00:10:47.156 --> 00:10:49.682
I'm just going to present some
hypotheticals.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/58-2
00:10:49.682 --> 00:10:53.801
Suppose you had access to real-time
integrated clinical and claims data in

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/58-3
00:10:53.801 --> 00:10:58.029
the cloud that's aggregated, normalized,
deduplicated, and that information,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/58-4
00:10:58.029 --> 00:11:00.721
instead of just being limited to an ADT
message,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/58-5
00:11:00.721 --> 00:11:03.192
maybe through national network
connectivity,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/60-0
00:11:03.392 --> 00:11:07.798
or some other kind of subscription,
provides you real-time clinical

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/60-1
00:11:07.798 --> 00:11:10.909
information on all your 600,
000 beneficiaries,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/60-2
00:11:10.909 --> 00:11:15.704
and marries that with claims data when
the claims data becomes available.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/60-3
00:11:15.704 --> 00:11:19.721
Is that the sort of solution that you'd
be looking for? Also,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/60-4
00:11:19.721 --> 00:11:22.832
what kind of analytics solution would you
think

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/61-0
00:11:22.952 --> 00:11:27.408
best be leveraged to kind of gain the
insights that the leadership of health

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/61-1
00:11:27.408 --> 00:11:28.392
plans would need.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/62-0
00:11:29.512 --> 00:11:34.255
Yeah, no, I appreciate that. Actually,
it's a very good leading question.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/62-1
00:11:34.255 --> 00:11:37.909
So I would say that, yeah, absolutely,
that information.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/62-2
00:11:37.909 --> 00:11:43.294
And to make it more practical is how can
you bring that to the table in, let's say,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/62-3
00:11:43.294 --> 00:11:46.114
a joint operating committee that,
you know,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/62-4
00:11:46.114 --> 00:11:49.512
you typically have with different health
systems and

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/64-0
00:11:49.832 --> 00:11:55.103
managing value-based arrangements,
which the majority of your contracts are.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/64-1
00:11:55.103 --> 00:12:00.511
How can you bring that to the table and
that analytics to discussions with the

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/64-2
00:12:00.511 --> 00:12:05.235
state or even with CMS to show where the
opportunities and gaps are,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/64-3
00:12:05.235 --> 00:12:09.206
whether it's clinical,
whether it's types of utilization,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/64-4
00:12:09.206 --> 00:12:10.712
inpatient, outpatient,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/67-0
00:12:11.032 --> 00:12:14.741
pharmacy, et cetera. Again,
being able to show something,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/67-1
00:12:14.741 --> 00:12:18.130
quote unquote,
more real time or within the last few

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/67-2
00:12:18.130 --> 00:12:22.287
months versus like, hey,
it's end of year and here's what we saw

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/67-3
00:12:22.287 --> 00:12:26.827
and this is not really good.
And there's no opportunity to take action

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/65-0
00:12:23.152 --> 00:12:23.632
Mhm.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/67-4
00:12:26.827 --> 00:12:30.472
on it. And there are solutions out there,
right? I mean,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/66-0
00:12:28.272 --> 00:12:28.792
Mhm.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/69-0
00:12:30.712 --> 00:12:35.884
I think a lot of people turn to the likes
of Optum. There are other, you know,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/69-1
00:12:35.884 --> 00:12:40.924
strong performers like Spectrum Medics
out there. There are, you know, just,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/69-2
00:12:40.924 --> 00:12:44.067
you know,
a host of solutions like Milliman and

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/69-3
00:12:44.067 --> 00:12:47.929
others that provide some different
insights on this front.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/69-4
00:12:47.929 --> 00:12:52.577
And if regional health plans are not
making their investments in those

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/69-5
00:12:52.577 --> 00:12:53.232
solutions,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/70-0
00:12:53.592 --> 00:12:56.472
It's going to be a real challenge to dig
out of this valley.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/68-0
00:12:53.632 --> 00:12:54.112
Mmh.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/71-0
00:12:56.952 --> 00:13:02.922
Do you think given the financial
challenges facing regional health plans,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/71-1
00:13:02.922 --> 00:13:09.376
perhaps pricing of these analytical and
real-time clinical data solutions might

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/71-2
00:13:09.376 --> 00:13:15.669
need to take into account the financial
realities facing the plans by moving,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/71-3
00:13:15.669 --> 00:13:15.992
like

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/72-0
00:13:16.072 --> 00:13:21.807
not front loading a capital cost,
but maybe shifting delayed payment or

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/72-1
00:13:21.807 --> 00:13:26.586
operational payments.
What kind of things could Milliman or

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/72-2
00:13:26.586 --> 00:13:32.799
Spectrum or other kind of vendors do to
have made their solutions more easily

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/72-3
00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:34.392
digestible by UCare?

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/74-0
00:13:36.792 --> 00:13:40.487
Yeah, that's a really good question.
I honestly,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/74-1
00:13:40.487 --> 00:13:43.957
I think it kind of changes by the day.
Again,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/74-2
00:13:43.957 --> 00:13:47.501
I think with more integration of AI
solutions,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/74-3
00:13:47.501 --> 00:13:51.951
it's getting more affordable by the day.
And so, you know,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/73-0
00:13:48.672 --> 00:13:49.632
Mhm, mhm.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/74-4
00:13:51.951 --> 00:13:56.552
it's in the ROI becomes more apparent by
the day as well. So

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/75-0
00:13:57.192 --> 00:14:02.033
you know, take, for example,
whether it's Spectrometics or Optum or

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/75-1
00:14:02.033 --> 00:14:05.593
somebody, you know,
you might spend several $100,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/75-2
00:14:05.593 --> 00:14:11.004
000 to implement a solution like this
over three or four months time to get

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/75-3
00:14:11.004 --> 00:14:15.632
that level of analytics we've been
talking about. But, you know,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/77-0
00:14:15.752 --> 00:14:18.389
at the end of the day,
that might save you,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/77-1
00:14:18.389 --> 00:14:22.405
and nobody wants to hear this,
but it might save you three to four

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/77-2
00:14:22.405 --> 00:14:27.200
employees that you have to hire on the
analytics side to put together more than

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/77-3
00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:29.837
wrote and manual spreadsheets or,
you know,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/76-0
00:14:27.912 --> 00:14:28.152
Right.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/77-4
00:14:29.837 --> 00:14:34.512
whatever the forum is that people share
this analytics. And again, it's like,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/78-0
00:14:34.592 --> 00:14:38.646
instantaneous when you implement these
solutions. It's, you know,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/78-1
00:14:38.646 --> 00:14:42.947
giving ready recommendations and helping
leadership understand, like,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/78-2
00:14:42.947 --> 00:14:47.616
what are the key items to focus on,
literally minutes before walking into a

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/78-3
00:14:47.616 --> 00:14:51.363
meeting type of thing,
whether it's with providers or senior

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/78-4
00:14:51.363 --> 00:14:54.312
executives, et cetera,
like just being able to.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/79-0
00:14:54.952 --> 00:15:01.021
have that kind of data at your fingertips
would have made a huge difference for the

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/79-1
00:15:01.021 --> 00:15:06.367
likes of UCare or I would guess
Providence and others that have gone down

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/79-2
00:15:06.367 --> 00:15:10.702
this road recently.
And I think other regional health plans

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/79-3
00:15:10.702 --> 00:15:13.592
that typically have not had this type of

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/80-0
00:15:13.672 --> 00:15:15.192
tool or resource in the past.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/81-0
00:15:16.792 --> 00:15:21.232
So I'd like to kind of,
there's a message that health plans and

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/81-1
00:15:21.232 --> 00:15:26.991
providers are hearing from Dr. Oz at CMS,
HHS and the White House, which is waste,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/81-2
00:15:26.991 --> 00:15:32.334
fraud and abuse is something that's rife
and rampant and affecting plans and

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/81-3
00:15:32.334 --> 00:15:34.832
providers. Do you think that there's

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/82-0
00:15:35.512 --> 00:15:40.254
Was that a contributing factor to the
receivership that UCARE is now in?

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/82-1
00:15:40.254 --> 00:15:45.320
Do you think there's something that
needed to have been done to identify more

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/82-2
00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:48.438
waste, fraud,
and abuse and cut it at the head?

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/82-3
00:15:48.438 --> 00:15:53.115
Or do you think that mostly it's just
focusing on kind of renegotiating

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/82-4
00:15:53.115 --> 00:15:57.272
contracts and getting the right tools in
there to know where to

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/83-0
00:15:57.352 --> 00:15:58.472
Take action.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/86-0
00:16:00.072 --> 00:16:03.383
Yeah, it's a great question. I mean,
fraud, waste,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/86-1
00:16:03.383 --> 00:16:08.447
and abuse has always been and continues
to be an issue in healthcare. I mean,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/84-0
00:16:06.872 --> 00:16:07.192
OK.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/86-2
00:16:08.447 --> 00:16:11.757
you know,
if there's an industry that sucks up 20%

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/86-3
00:16:11.757 --> 00:16:15.653
of your GDP, I mean,
it's going to be ripe for FWA types of

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/85-0
00:16:15.032 --> 00:16:15.432
Yeah.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/86-4
00:16:15.653 --> 00:16:18.769
items.
So I just don't think that's going to go

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/86-5
00:16:18.769 --> 00:16:20.392
away. Do I think it was a

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/88-0
00:16:20.512 --> 00:16:26.314
big contributing factor to UCARE and its
demise. It certainly played a role,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/88-1
00:16:26.314 --> 00:16:29.855
but I wouldn't say that was a key
contributor.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/88-2
00:16:29.855 --> 00:16:35.807
Could there have been more done, you know,
by various different parties? Sure,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/87-0
00:16:31.232 --> 00:16:31.712
Mhm.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/88-3
00:16:35.807 --> 00:16:40.252
there always is,
but I don't think it was a driving force.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/88-4
00:16:40.252 --> 00:16:44.472
I think the efforts that CMS and others
are undertaking

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/89-0
00:16:44.952 --> 00:16:49.808
on this front, it's the right thing.
There needs to be more done on this,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/89-1
00:16:49.808 --> 00:16:53.876
but at the same time,
it's not the end all be all in terms of

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/89-2
00:16:53.876 --> 00:16:56.632
why we're seeing some of these situations.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/90-0
00:16:57.112 --> 00:16:59.874
So Dan,
we only have a few more minutes left of

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/90-1
00:16:59.874 --> 00:17:02.981
this episode and our listeners may be
thinking, okay,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/90-2
00:17:02.981 --> 00:17:07.123
so maybe I am a small health plan or
maybe I'm a provider organization,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/90-3
00:17:07.123 --> 00:17:10.863
but we work with some,
some of our patients are covered by small

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/90-4
00:17:10.863 --> 00:17:15.696
regional health plans across the country.
And this message that Dan is sharing with

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/90-5
00:17:15.696 --> 00:17:17.192
us is actually concerning.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/91-0
00:17:17.912 --> 00:17:22.508
It's unfortunate what happened to UCare,
and we'd like to prevent that from

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/91-1
00:17:22.508 --> 00:17:27.225
happening to our regional health plan.
What sort of steps do you think either

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/91-2
00:17:27.225 --> 00:17:30.914
Medica should take now that they've taken
over UCare or XYZ,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/91-3
00:17:30.914 --> 00:17:34.543
small regional health plan across the
country, should take?

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/91-4
00:17:34.543 --> 00:17:38.232
You mentioned that there needs to be more
real-time clinical

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/92-0
00:17:38.392 --> 00:17:42.337
access to clinical data and you need to
have an analytical platform,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/92-1
00:17:42.337 --> 00:17:45.883
kind of what are some of the
interventions you think that the

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/92-2
00:17:45.883 --> 00:17:50.343
analytics platform may allow you to take
or what kind of steps might be able,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/92-3
00:17:50.343 --> 00:17:55.032
might our listeners be able to take in
order to save their regional health plans?

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/93-0
00:17:57.432 --> 00:18:01.943
Yeah, I mean,
if I knew like the key answer to that,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/93-1
00:18:01.943 --> 00:18:07.561
I'd be a very rich man. But no,
you're spot on with the question.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/93-2
00:18:07.561 --> 00:18:11.732
You know,
it comes down to regional health plans

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/93-3
00:18:11.732 --> 00:18:18.712
are very unique in that they have very
strong relationships with their providers.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/95-0
00:18:18.952 --> 00:18:24.024
that they work in contract with,
and they've got very strong ties into the

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/95-1
00:18:24.024 --> 00:18:28.487
communities that they work with.
If they are able to provide more

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/95-2
00:18:28.487 --> 00:18:33.965
real-time data and more transparent data
to those partners that they have in the

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/95-3
00:18:33.965 --> 00:18:37.752
community and within a provider community
as well, that

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/94-0
00:18:37.312 --> 00:18:37.912
Mhm.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/96-0
00:18:38.632 --> 00:18:44.551
they're going to be able to collaborate
more so than maybe a national can,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/96-1
00:18:44.551 --> 00:18:50.549
a national health insurance company can,
to impact, you know, gaps in care,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/96-2
00:18:50.549 --> 00:18:57.021
you know, where utilization is, you know,
maybe not trending the way it should be

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/96-3
00:18:57.021 --> 00:18:59.152
for different services. And

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/97-0
00:18:59.992 --> 00:19:05.222
really help control the overall total
cost of care. So again, having that data,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/97-1
00:19:05.222 --> 00:19:10.387
being able to leverage those partnerships
and the strengths that community and

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/97-2
00:19:10.387 --> 00:19:15.486
regional health plans have with those
within the community and with providers

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/97-3
00:19:15.486 --> 00:19:18.232
is going to be a really big deal for them.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/99-0
00:19:18.312 --> 00:19:23.372
I think in the years to come.
So those investments are going to be a

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/98-0
00:19:20.552 --> 00:19:21.512
Just a...

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/99-1
00:19:23.372 --> 00:19:24.472
big deal. Yeah.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/100-0
00:19:24.152 --> 00:19:27.974
To understand exactly what you're saying
in terms of collaborating with providers,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/100-1
00:19:27.974 --> 00:19:31.473
if you had had this real-time data and
you could have two years ago gone to

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/100-2
00:19:31.473 --> 00:19:34.282
providers and said,
we're in danger of going out of business

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/100-3
00:19:34.282 --> 00:19:37.459
for the X, Y, and Z reasons,
would you wish that the providers would

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/100-4
00:19:37.459 --> 00:19:40.129
have said, oh man,
we really need you here to support our

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/100-5
00:19:40.129 --> 00:19:42.247
community.
We are willing to now accept lower

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/100-6
00:19:42.247 --> 00:19:44.872
reimbursement rates in order to prevent
your insolvency.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/101-0
00:19:45.112 --> 00:19:47.933
Or are you going to say instead, oh,
us providers,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/101-1
00:19:47.933 --> 00:19:51.585
we're going to look to improve care
management with A population,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/101-2
00:19:51.585 --> 00:19:55.568
B population, and C population,
which your analytics have identified as

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/101-3
00:19:55.568 --> 00:19:59.386
being really in a position to benefit
from improved care management?

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/101-4
00:19:59.386 --> 00:20:02.152
Is it both or one or the other or
something else?

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/102-0
00:20:03.112 --> 00:20:03.352
I...

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/103-0
00:20:17.112 --> 00:20:17.592
Mhm.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/104-0
00:20:22.272 --> 00:20:22.872
Mm-hmm.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/105-0
00:20:23.432 --> 00:20:26.584
from that standpoint.
So it has to be of like, hey,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/105-1
00:20:26.584 --> 00:20:31.495
how can we better manage the total cost
of care, increase quality, and have the,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/105-2
00:20:31.495 --> 00:20:34.344
you know,
make sure we're paying for the right

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/105-3
00:20:34.344 --> 00:20:38.952
types of utilization versus of like, hey,
I'm just going to cut your rates.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/106-0
00:20:40.472 --> 00:20:44.327
Okay, thank you.
I appreciate your time on our call today.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/106-1
00:20:44.327 --> 00:20:48.052
For our listeners,
this has been Dan Honchel from UCare,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/106-2
00:20:48.052 --> 00:20:51.189
the VP of Product Strategy and Management.
Dan,

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/106-3
00:20:51.189 --> 00:20:53.672
thank you so much for your time today.

c129f47e-968a-497b-8b8a-af26044f9a81/107-0
00:20:54.352 --> 00:20:55.832
No, I really appreciate it. Thank you.