00;00;00;04 - 00;00;05;25
Unknown
Aristide ruined my life for 40 years, and I didn't even know what it was.

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Unknown
if you find yourself spiraling. If somebody asked for a chat or if somebody is going to give you work feedback, or if you're being held back from following your dreams because you think you're going to be rejected.

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Unknown
This episode is for you. Welcome to Late Bloomers, where we are getting our lives together.

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Unknown
Watch you by our amazing sponsor Loop earplugs. Oh my God, we are coming for today. Yeah, we are ready. It's it's estimated. So I learned recently that it's estimated that 100% of people that have got ADHD struggle with. So I reckon this could resonate with people. If you have ADHD, you probably have RSV. And also it's not only ADHD.

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Unknown
Anyone that is sensitive, or struggles with mental illness caused waterline personality disorder. Any of those types of things are probably going to come under this banner. So we're getting into it today. Yeah we are. I think maybe the start point should be maybe an explanation of what is rather than to over acronym people.

00;01;15;24 - 00;01;48;25
Unknown
And it is rejection sensitivity dysphoria which is really like weird and clinical way of saying super sensitive, super sensitive, soul crushing shame that comes in moments when you feel you're being rejected or perceived rejection, rejection. It overtakes your body and mind. It's like a shame virus and you really spiral. You can really spiral, you can ruminate, you lose touch with reality.

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Unknown
And I think the saddest thing is it can hold you back from friendships, relationships, or following your dreams. Yeah, because you think I'll be rejected. So you choose not not to do something. And that's why it's so important. And is that so? You started by saying it ruined your life. Would you say that they're the biggest reasons? Because it prevents, like what?

00;02;08;11 - 00;02;34;13
Unknown
What reason? Did it ruin your life? The constant rumination that I was in, about everyone that hated me, or how I was going to be rejected, or what I'd done wrong, replaying embarrassing moments I couldn't even have a normal text conversation with someone without spiraling into. It's not just feeling like you're being rejected, it is, but your body.

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Unknown
It would often be like panic, anxiety, shaking hands, fear. Like it's visceral and I guess as well like to have a successful life, whether that be objectively career wise or just good mental health. It's it's always talked about that you need to be present in the moment. And I guess with is like, you're never you're never present.

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Unknown
You're in this, this fantasy. It's funny, you know, we know people with ADHD use fantasy as a way to use their creativity and to escape. Funnily enough, you're using your creativity, but in a very negative way, like creating the worst case scenario. But yeah, I think it's just so important to say it's not just a thought exercise. Oh, I think maybe I'm being rejected.

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Unknown
It's a full body negative experience that at the time feels impossible to move through. However, you can move through it and you can tell me if I'm wrong here. Okay. I don't know if I have it anymore or as much anymore compared to a few years ago. Well, I guess I'll answer that question with a question. You certainly don't display signs that you have it specifically around people that are you're close to and stuff.

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Unknown
But I suppose the question is like, do you have the feeling at first and are you just better at managing it, or do you not have it at all in the first place? I have it so much less now with my core relationships. There are two places where I still have it, which is music and my relationship with my dad.

00;04;23;24 - 00;04;56;26
Unknown
Yeah, so inviting my dad to the wedding. I was I mean, it was physically sick with with anxiety and panic. Don't even know if that's right. We'll just stay with our relationship music big time. I play a gig. I expect nobody to show up. And that's like, in my bones. It's definitely probably for a different episode. But I would say that music, music exerts the unhealthiest version of you.

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Unknown
Like everything else in life, you. I would say you are really strong, really like levelheaded. No anxiety, no imposter syndrome, no, like just confident and present and just, yeah, like a boss. But music, it music takes you back to probably pre therapy quite often. Yeah it does. And that's you know it's a really interesting place for me to notice RSV.

00;05;23;02 - 00;05;46;23
Unknown
And it's an area where I don't necessarily have command of it. So just as a very quick example, last weekend I was in Germany, I was playing a festival and I stood backstage and I just became obsessed with the idea that nobody was there. And my team were going to think, why have I even been booked? And people going to laugh at me?

00;05;46;23 - 00;06;04;07
Unknown
And I was like, I need to just go out on stage and give the best performance I can to nobody. If there's one person there, I'll, I'll make I contact with them. I haven't even looked round the curtain, but I was catastrophizing how I was going to make it through and make myself look okay in front of my team and get through the 45ft.

00;06;04;10 - 00;06;23;23
Unknown
I mean, looked around the curtain. Well, it's interesting because as a direct comparison to that, we did a Late Bloomer episode at download, right? And we thought there was going to be like five people there, and we were fine with that. Turns out it was a packed ten. There was loads of people turned up, but you were you were fine with that.

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Unknown
Probably slightly was like, it's going to be known their download festival aren't going to ever want to work with us. This is going to be embarrassing, but I'm with you. The difference when we do stuff together, I've got my like autistic grounded in facts of the. So it's harder to spiral away somewhere. Yeah. Okay. So look, I still suffer with it, but I'm telling you now, it's way better.

00;06;46;29 - 00;07;01;00
Unknown
Yeah. And I feel that we deserve to be, like, as freedom of speech as we can be, because it really does hunt you back, and it's absolutely horrible. So what we've done in this FSA.

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Unknown
I've gone away and I've written down like the five reasons that relate to the therapy. I'm in the long term psychodynamic work that I really think has changed the game for me. Yeah, in feeling better and I have gone away and researched our trusted friend, read it with the five tips of how to overcome D. So this is like Reddit versus science, logic versus emotion.

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Unknown
Much like our relationship, babe.

00;07;37;02 - 00;08;08;04
Unknown
Okay, so why don't we start with the first Reddit tip, and then I'll hit you with the first therapy tip. Okay. Number one, do a self-compassion break. So when you find yourself spiraling, I just take a step back and I guess speak to yourself as if you were speaking to a third party because you would be great at giving advice right to someone else struggling with D.

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Unknown
If you had RSV, it can be true. There'd be no one better than me to talk you out of it. Okay, so self-compassion break. Let's go back to me backstage. German festival. Nobody's here. Panic attack. I'm going to lose my career. The team's going to be so embarrassed of me. Yeah. So compassion break. Would you like, stop? Is it just like a stop thinking.

00;08;30;21 - 00;08;49;23
Unknown
Those thoughts? Yeah. Well, yeah. Stop. And I guess what would you say if it was somebody else that you love and care for was experience? What would you say? Let's say there is nobody here. You're still valuable and you're still brill. And you're going home to a loving like it's going to be okay. No one's going to embarrass of you.

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Unknown
Easy, isn't it? Okay. Yeah. There you go. Well, I'm not saying it's easy. Yeah. That'll do. Stop thinking it, lads. Okay. Ready for my number one I am.

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Unknown
So boring in, like, sciency. It's attachment repair work. What? And secure attachments. Obviously, we hear a lot on the internet about, like, attachment styles, but actually it is based on reality in what happens in therapy. Reading this gorgeous thing that was like 1 to 2 years of really good therapy can fundamentally change someone's life, as can five years in a very secure, long term relationship, which is beautiful because not everyone has access to long term therapy.

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Unknown
So five years in a really healthy, loving relationship can actually heal a lot of those deep attachment roots. But like, you know, Captain Logical as I am, that how does that help? Like, so when I first went to therapy, I was a bag of nerves. I was convinced I was getting it wrong. I was going to be rejected by him.

00;10;05;18 - 00;10;28;23
Unknown
If I turned up one minute late, he was going to say he never wanted to see me. My first year of therapy, I was like, are you ending therapy with me numerous times because I was having RSD triggers. We didn't call it that, but within therapy and I don't anymore, I rock up. I feel confident, I've learned to trust that he will be there, I won't be forgotten or rejected.

00;10;28;23 - 00;10;54;19
Unknown
And over two years I felt like a real healthy attachment with him. And throughout that experience of feeling what that feels like, you sort of show yourself. Yeah, okay. Safe to be in the world. And so we've got just so I don't misunderstand what we're doing as a tip. The tip is go to therapy or get with a partner.

00;10;54;19 - 00;11;14;23
Unknown
And in five years you might be all right. Your tips are going to be short term. Yeah. Like like your band. And my tips are like long okay. Deep psychic change. Yes. Is going to take years. Fine. Okay. That's cool. Number two I love this one.

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Unknown
Realize that you're not that important and reframe it. Wait. No, let me explain.

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Unknown
So let's say it's a text message that we need to chat or whatever. And you're like, oh my God, this person is going to they hate me. They're going to end the friendship. They think I'm terrible, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. I'm saying they don't. You are centering yourself in that universe, and you're not as important to them as you are to you, so they don't really think about you.

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Unknown
They don't so about them.

00;11;51;04 - 00;12;16;20
Unknown
Okay, I was going to like telling you off a being a naughty boy of that one. Actually, I agree. I remember a few years ago going to an and Marie songwriting camp, and the Irish was so bad that I ended up being sick in the toilet from nerves. And I remember turning up and there was like, and Marie and like 20 songwriters, which I was one.

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Unknown
I couldn't even walk in the room I was meeting. I was so panicked. Was it against their at me? Don't hate me. I'm going to walk funny, say the wrong thing. I had to ring my friend. I be like, hey, no, and could you come and get me? So that walked in with my friends. It felt like all eyes were on me.

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Unknown
And the reason?

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Unknown
Now it's like old song in the corner and Marie's, they're so awkward. I went and sat down so I didn't have to, like, look at anyone. I feel embarrassed and she came and sat next to me. I couldn't tell them. You, I couldn't think.

00;12;55;06 - 00;13;15;03
Unknown
That is good advice for your music as well, because you often think of music. Everyone's going to hate me. If this video doesn't connect. Everyone's going to like unfollow me and like, never listen to a single song again. Like if someone watches a video, they'll just scroll to the next video. You're one of maybe 300 videos they'll watch that day.

00;13;15;03 - 00;13;21;04
Unknown
They don't care. Yeah, I feel like that is so good. Okay, my number two. Oh, well,

00;13;21;08 - 00;13;52;00
Unknown
My number two heal narcissistic vulnerabilities. Okay. What does that mean then what? So I'm not going to understand a single one of yours. I've just I've just realized. So. Yeah. Yeah. Narcissistic vulnerability. So online people talk about narcissism and it's always like this, like enemy or this monster. But actually we're all on a narcissistic scale.

00;13;52;02 - 00;14;24;23
Unknown
There's healthy versions of narcissism to sit down and do a podcast. Yeah. Shows a healthy version of narcissism. It's what allows you to show up, do things, accomplish things, and you kind of need a little bit of it. Well, and to be online, right. We make videos online that that would form part of it as well. Yeah. But where it's kind of gone wrong in people where your, your world can collapse if you aren't seen or validated in a sort of nice way.

00;14;24;26 - 00;14;55;18
Unknown
It means that you're like internal system for just being okay and self-soothing in a variety of different situations, isn't there are I think I understand this one is is it very aligned to. And unfortunately, it's why so many people in the music industry specifically suffer quite dramatically with their mental health. Is it like where their self-esteem is like directly aligned with how successful they are?

00;14;55;20 - 00;15;23;17
Unknown
Right. Yeah. So it's almost like the narcissism and it's realist sense I'm going to use my creativity or some kind of talent or my humor to try and be like, it's it's it's sad in a way. And if you are liked, it feels wonderful. And if you're rejected, it feels like the end of the world because you're desperately trying to just feel okay enough.

00;15;23;20 - 00;15;46;04
Unknown
And that comes from being a kids who wasn't like, validated and that really normal way. Like, you know, if you fall over and you hurt your knee and it's healthy to sort of think, oh, you mean you'll be okay? But what often people heard is get up, stop crying. So you never learned to get love or get soothing from the parent or yourself?

00;15;46;05 - 00;16;24;27
Unknown
I'd be more worried if I put a hole in the knee of the of the of the trousers that I was wearing, usually school trousers. So in terms of healing this, again, it comes back to look, having a happy home life that isn't related to success. Yeah, rejection. And also if you are in long term. So if you have a great therapist, that relationship where you are seen and validated without having to perform, be like being nice or be successful and you just learn to you just learn to be okay.

00;16;25;03 - 00;16;27;13
Unknown
Love it.

00;16;27;15 - 00;16;33;13
Unknown
Well, before I do my number three, let's chat about our sponsors. Love our sponsor.

00;16;33;16 - 00;16;52;00
Unknown
When you have ADHD or other types of neurodivergent, sometimes we can find ourselves being sensitive to sound that might look like being out for dinner and hearing what they're talking about on another table, rather than the person you're with. It might feel like going to a loud

00;16;52;00 - 00;16;57;15
Unknown
concert and feeling physical pain or discomfort because the music is too loud.

00;16;57;15 - 00;17;28;08
Unknown
It might just be not being able to sleep because there's a low hum in the room. That's what loop earplugs are for, and they have an earplug for every single one of those types of experiences. Richard I absolutely love them. We wear them most days, certainly when I leave the house. Anytime you leave the house and we're wearing them, we are so lucky and honored that they are a sponsor of the Late Rooms podcast, and all of our listeners get 20% off.

00;17;28;09 - 00;17;34;11
Unknown
You can go to the show notes that a link to this episode ought to link in our social media by episode.

00;17;34;11 - 00;18;10;11
Unknown
Right back to it. I love this one so deeply. My next sticky plaster. Fact check. So obviously RC is very much rooted in the emotional world rather than the logical, factual world. So, like, what is it that's actually happened? And it would typically be somebody has sent you a message to say we need to chat, which it means they want to chat to you and it could be good or bad.

00;18;10;12 - 00;18;38;11
Unknown
Yeah. What does is project the worst case scenario onto everything. So let's go back to me behind the curtain in Germany. Nobody's here. My career is over. Go laugh at me. Why don't you just. Yeah. Why don't you just check? Because then we're dealing with reality. If no one's there, cool. It's going to be okay. But as was the case and here's was packed out, I was like, oh, here's the thing as well, right?

00;18;38;11 - 00;18;57;21
Unknown
For that exact example, say you didn't want to peep through the tent, or you could just ask someone else to go and have a look, go and have a look. Let me know how many people are in the crowd. If they came back and said one, the anxiety would be gone. It'd be like, right, okay, cool. I guess I'm performing to one person.

00;18;57;24 - 00;19;26;20
Unknown
Like knowing the truth, even if it's bad, is always better than the imagined worst case scenario because you can deal with it 100%. So let's say like a super common example is someone saying they want to talk. It's like checking yourself. The only thing they've told me is they want to talk. Yeah, we don't need to write a novel about why that's them.

00;19;26;20 - 00;19;50;01
Unknown
And in the center for telling me something bad I've done. Yeah. You used to get it with, like, bad reviews on books and stuff as well. You don't anymore. Do you read them anymore? Yeah, well we do. Thanks for everyone that's left a lovely review, right? Tell me. Select pieces, but good reviews felt a little too good. And bad reviews felt they were too bad.

00;19;50;01 - 00;20;00;03
Unknown
So I just keep myself chained up. Right. Ready for my number three I am ready. Yeah, you can guess what it means. Train mental.

00;20;00;06 - 00;20;24;05
Unknown
I can't guess what that means. No. I'm sorry. So mentalism is like the ability to understand my thoughts and feelings being separate from your thoughts and feelings, and that we have a different experience and that mine don't relate to yours. Yeah. So if you go into the middle of an ID trigger, let's say my friend Kat says rocks.

00;20;24;05 - 00;20;26;04
Unknown
I'd love to chat to you.

00;20;26;06 - 00;20;53;09
Unknown
RC trigger says she's ending the friendship. She's figured something out. She's annoyed with me. I've done something. Mentalism says. What's going on for Kat? Oh, she was finishing her psychology degree this month. I wonder if she's okay. Does she need help? You put the other person's life facts experience back on the table.

00;20;53;10 - 00;21;26;22
Unknown
Make it less about you. Funnily enough, quite linked to the narcissism one as well, I guess. What was it? You're not the important one. Yeah, relationships are two people. There's more in the conversation. It's more. Every single person has their own deeply intense emotional, intellectual life. And it's like the ability to understand that in the moment. Yeah. And it can be so, so useful.

00;21;26;24 - 00;22;03;02
Unknown
Mental. Something you work on in therapy, it can take a long time to develop, but that skill acts as a dinner switch. Because the moment I'm thinking about you in your life, I'm out of my own. Yeah. Narrative. Out of that own self destructive. I mean, even outside of our SD, I would imagine that's an incredibly useful skill to have because and needed when like for us to, for example, because I see the world very differently to you and my experience is always completely different to yours.

00;22;03;03 - 00;22;24;06
Unknown
A great way of explaining it mentally is if we're having an argument and you're shutting down the ability for me to go, Richard's autistic, he's shut him down. I can see the signs. I'm going to suggest. Yes. And time alone I'm going to take the temperature down rather than me. It's making it work. Like, yeah, I like it.

00;22;24;09 - 00;22;51;00
Unknown
All right. My number for I might get some criticism for this one. Okay. Just do the scary thing. Anyway. So as I say, we keep using the same example, but just message them back. Cool. Are you available now or just get on stage. Yeah. That's that's how you do it. And I so envious of you to not have our SD.

00;22;51;02 - 00;23;31;23
Unknown
But I do agree with this one. Well again so many of these things are linked, but even if it's bad, it's better than thinking about the badness. You train the muscle that every time you do the scary thing and you aren't annihilated and you exist through it, that it's going to be okay. So if I go back to starting music again and putting videos on the internet and just how it was like torturous having to go through that and I had to dress up as a different character to allow myself to even give it a go.

00;23;31;26 - 00;23;54;20
Unknown
Not every video did well and you feel the pain of rejection, but you survive and you're okay, and then you go again. Let's say you need to have a really difficult conversation with someone, and your ruminating on all the ways it could go wrong. Just do it. It's always better to just have the seller text and the email is.

00;23;54;20 - 00;24;14;02
Unknown
It's so scary that you'll feel so much better when it's done well. Not only that, right, so you can't say this about everyone but you specifically. Even if it is bad. You're one of the most resilient people that I know. So although you'll be worrying about what if the bad things happen? What if the bad things happen? Even if the bad things do happen?

00;24;14;05 - 00;24;19;09
Unknown
You like switch on. You're like, right, what do I do next? How do I get through? What's next?

00;24;19;12 - 00;24;37;17
Unknown
People are actually great in a crisis. So if the crisis becomes real, we're going to be better. What we're at is getting lost in our fantasies, our RSD, the rumination, the worst case scenario. So, yeah, get stuck in and just do it. Just do it. Yeah.

00;24;37;19 - 00;25;02;09
Unknown
Right. Ready for mine. Number four. I am, yeah, let's see what you think it means. Integrate split object representation. I don't know, you need a degree to understand these. Say it's when he hits, we see the other person becomes a bully, a monster. They hate us. Our enemy. We forget their humanity. It's kind of like black and white.

00;25;02;10 - 00;25;38;17
Unknown
Thinking all or nothing. Thinking they hate me or love me. And when there's an trigger, somebody becomes all bad. Scary. To destroy us. To reject us. So it's learning and understanding that people can be great. People can be nuanced. No. Very rarely is somebody all good or all bad. My challenge on this particular one is, I reckon out of everything that you've said, this is the one that you still maybe struggle with, with the all or nothing thing.

00;25;38;23 - 00;26;08;16
Unknown
Someone's good or they're bad. Especially if I'm in a disagreement. It's very easy for it to become all consuming and for me to forget the nuance or the humanity. It's something I'm still working on. But like, if someone does something horrible to me, really nasty, I can do. You are no, you are really nasty and you can forget the other things in their life.

00;26;08;17 - 00;26;40;14
Unknown
I think it's quite human to think like that. I mean, yeah, it's certainly if it's not human, it's very ADHD. Yeah. We are all or nothing. Yeah. Like all or nothing. Because. Because I think I naturally would be devil's advocate. I would, I would really I would remember the good things about someone like you can always kind of see the logic and kind of call me back to reality, which is really good.

00;26;40;16 - 00;27;04;24
Unknown
But that this is the posh way of saying split objects, splitting things into into good and bad. So it's easier to understand. Again, it's all from childhood. It's just like innate sense of. But it might not be a real memory, but what your body remembers being screened out or hit or shamed or left alone. Sculptor. It's that same emotion that comes back up.

00;27;04;24 - 00;27;27;11
Unknown
It's like a deep fear. That person's the big angry devil. What you hit. Yeah. Makes sense. It's just understand that the real wonky adults were all gray and can all be be good and bad. And to accept that somebody might not like you in a moment, or somebody might speak to you a bit rudely, but also care about you.

00;27;27;12 - 00;28;01;24
Unknown
Yeah. And understanding the interplay between those different things. Okay. You ready for my final one? I'm ready. Externalize the side. So look at the D as RSD like. So you logically understand what's happening again. I know that this is easier said than actually done when you're like in the middle of it, but to try and look down on the situation and the and the a bit like looking down on the ADHD when you lose your wallet rather than thinking you're a terrible, useless human being.

00;28;01;24 - 00;28;33;08
Unknown
It's like I've got ADHD. So therefore that's why I've lost this love that actually I do externalize my D a lot, and it just helps put a bit of space between you and what is unbearably shameful, even though it's not losing a wallet, being like getting on the wrong train. The ability to fly or a PhD is ADHD allows me not to take on useless loser energy that I lived under for so long.

00;28;33;09 - 00;28;59;28
Unknown
Well, it also helps with as as it does externally externalizing ADHD. It helps the other person as well. So like for me, I externalize your ADHD because if I didn't, we would argue all the time about the clothes or over the floor or whatever. Forgetting things and with is is horrible to say, but it's easy for the other person to think, oh my God, you're so sensitive.

00;28;59;29 - 00;29;25;20
Unknown
Like, oh, why? Like you're so anxious, you're becoming too much. Whereas if you externalize it, it's like, oh, this is what's happening here. Something's going on. How can we work with it? I love that, actually. And I do think that that would be quite helpful in the moment just to recognize it. Oh, kicking off here. Right. Yeah. Just just that just this is our SD, not me.

00;29;25;22 - 00;29;55;04
Unknown
Yeah. Helps you to have a little bit of space between you and something troubling. I love it, love it. Read it. Okay. My final one. You ready? I'm always ready. Super ego. Soften your super ego. No. Go on. Go. It's kind of comes from a Freudian idea. It's kind of like the head teacher. The one that keeps you on track and keeps you doing the right thing.

00;29;55;04 - 00;30;24;07
Unknown
And for people with ADHD, often they were very, very, very harsh. Super ego the internal critic. Why have we got such a harsh internal critic? We grew up being told too loud, too much. Sit down. Can't focus. Naughty, bad. So the voices that we had as a kid, we internalized and we just kept playing it right. So we effectively play.

00;30;24;07 - 00;30;56;05
Unknown
We become an echo of the early criticisms and we live under it. So it's why an ADHD person might suffer with low esteem. A lot of negative self-talk. You weren't born with that. You weren't born thinking, I'm too much. I'm too loud. I'm embarrassing. You learned it, and then you just kept playing the record. Fascinating. So in order to change your super ego or that internal critic, you have to find a different voice.

00;30;56;06 - 00;31;17;00
Unknown
And that starts by labeling the voice. Understanding. When you say, hate myself, they hate me, but it's not you, that it's not real, that you learned that, but it's an echo. And to try and find within that a different voice. Can you access your kind of voice, your adult voice in that moment and speak to your self in a kind of way?

00;31;17;02 - 00;31;44;00
Unknown
I think it can take a really long time, years to undo all of that shame that's going to feel like your personality. Yeah, but you can do it. And actually, if I think of the biggest change in my life that nobody sees, but it's probably saved my life. It's what's going on in here because most of the time now, here being your head, most of the time, it's quite a lovely place.

00;31;44;00 - 00;32;12;26
Unknown
It's quite vibey, it's quite fun. There's self-compassion, there's humor. Whereas it used to be keeping score of all the ways I was messing up and when I did, it would be very quiet. And I think, you know, today's episode broadly, I think both tips, both sets of tips are really valuable. One might help you get through in that moment, and the other is a real long term approach around healing sustainably, I guess.

00;32;13;00 - 00;32;39;14
Unknown
Yeah, it's both valid. We need stuff. We need the band aids for today, and we also need to have hope that we can move through this and we can live relatively free. There you go. Podcast. I hope that you liked it. If you didn't, please don't tell me because I'll tell you if you haven't liked it, you're a like and subscribe a follow.

00;32;39;14 - 00;34;33;00
Unknown
And as always, we hope and cannot wait to see you next week.

00;34;33;03 - 00;34;40;14
Unknown
Look it down. Down.

00;34;40;17 - 00;34;58;03
Unknown
Okay. Can you bed? Can you bed? Can I get a testing, testing? Testing, testing. Let's go. Team. Good.

00;34;58;06 - 00;35;03;18
Unknown
What's the intro? Do you think?

00;35;03;20 - 00;35;26;16
Unknown
Do you struggle with Aristide? Ruined my life for 40 years. Yeah. Or, The. It's estimated that 100% of people with ADHD. I think that's bigger. RC ruined my life. That might be ruining yours. If you find yourself overthinking in spirals. Willing to talk about how to beat it today. And then if you've got alias, you could add that.

00;35;26;20 - 00;35;32;11
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. That's fine. We can get that out in the episode.

00;35;32;13 - 00;35;36;27
Unknown
Yeah, yeah.

00;35;36;29 - 00;36;00;28
Unknown
RC ruined my life for 40 years, and I didn't even know what it was. If you find yourself spiraling when somebody asks you if when somebody asks you if it's a when somebody asks for it, if you find yourself spiraling, if somebody asked for a chat or if somebody is going to give you work feedback, or if you're being held back from following your dreams because you think you're going to be rejected.

00;36;00;29 - 00;36;09;28
Unknown
This episode is for you. Welcome to Late Bloomers, where we are getting our lives together.

00;36;10;00 - 00;36;36;27
Unknown
Watch you by our amazing sponsor Loop Earplugs. Oh my God, we are coming for today and I'm so ready. It's estimated. So I learned recently that it's estimated that 100% of people that have got ADHD struggle with me, so I reckon this could resonate with people. Yeah, if you have ADHD, you probably have RSV. And also it's not only ADHD.

00;36;37;00 - 00;37;21;05
Unknown
Anyone that is sensitive or struggles with mental illness caused borderline personality disorder. Any of those types of things are probably going to come under this banner. So we're getting into it today. Yeah we are. I think maybe the start point should be maybe an explanation of what he is rather than to over acronym people. RT and it is rejection sensitivity dysphoria which is really like weird and clinical way of saying super sensitive, super sensitive, soul crushing shame that comes in moments when you feel you're being rejected or perceived rejection or perceived rejection.

00;37;21;12 - 00;37;44;01
Unknown
It overtakes your body and mind. It's like a shame virus and you really spiral. You can really spiral, you can ruminate, you lose touch with reality. And I think the saddest thing is it can hold you back from friendships, relationships, or following your dreams. Yeah, because you think I'll be rejected. So you choose not not to do something.

00;37;44;05 - 00;38;14;24
Unknown
That's why it's so important to talk about. And is that so? You started by saying it ruined your life. Would you say that they're the biggest reasons? Because it prevents, like what? What reason did it ruin your life? The constant rumination that I was in, about everyone that hated me, or how I was going to be rejected, or what I'd done wrong, replaying embarrassing moments I couldn't even have a normal text conversation with someone without spiraling into.

00;38;15;02 - 00;38;39;04
Unknown
And it's not just feeling like you're being rejected, it is like your body. It would often be like panic, anxiety, shaking hands, fear. Like it's visceral and I guess as well like to have a successful life, whether that be objectively career wise or just good mental health. It's always talked about that you need to be present in the moment.

00;38;39;04 - 00;39;06;04
Unknown
And I guess with it's like you're never you're never present. You're in this, this fantasy. It's funny, you know, we know people with ADHD use fantasy as a way to use their creativity and to escape. Funnily enough, you're using your creativity, but in a very negative way. You're like creating the worst case scenario. But yeah, I think it's just so important to say it's not just a thought exercise.

00;39;06;04 - 00;39;36;17
Unknown
Oh, I think maybe I'm being rejected. It's a full body negative experience that at the time feels impossible to move through. However, you can move through it and you can tell me if I'm wrong here. Okay. I don't know if I have it anymore or as much anymore compared to a few years ago. Well, I guess I'll answer that question with a question.

00;39;36;18 - 00;39;59;11
Unknown
You certainly don't display signs that you have it specifically around people that are you're close to and stuff. But I suppose the question is like, do you have the feeling at first and are you just better at managing it, or do you not have it at all in the first place? I have it so much less now with my core relationships.

00;39;59;14 - 00;40;28;22
Unknown
There are two places where I still have it, which is music and my relationship with my dad. Yeah, so inviting my dad to the wedding. I was, I mean, I was physically sick with with anxiety and panic. I don't even know if that's RSD or just the state of our relationship music. Big time. So whenever I play a gig, I expect nobody to show up.

00;40;28;25 - 00;41;01;01
Unknown
And that's like in my bones. It's definitely probably for a different episode. But I would say that music, music exerts the unhealthiest version of you. Like everything else in life, you. I would say you are really strong, really like level headed, no anxiety, no imposter syndrome. Like just confident and present and just, yeah, like a boss. But music, music takes you back to probably pre therapy quite often.

00;41;01;02 - 00;41;26;26
Unknown
Yeah it does. And that's you know it's a really interesting place for me to notice. And it's an area where I don't necessarily have command of it. So just as a very quick example, last weekend I was in Germany, I was playing a festival and I was stood backstage and I just became obsessed with the idea that nobody was there.

00;41;26;26 - 00;41;51;13
Unknown
And my team were going to think, why have I even been booked? And people have been laugh at me and I was like, I need to just go out on stage and give the best performance I can to nobody. If there's one person there, I'll, I'll make eye contact with them. I haven't even looked round the curtain like I was catastrophizing how I was going to make it through and make myself look okay in front of my team and get through the 45 minutes and then looked around the curtain.

00;41;51;15 - 00;42;11;08
Unknown
Well, it's interesting because as a direct comparison to that, we did a late bloomers episode, a download, right? And we thought there was going to be like five people there and we were fine with that. Turns out it was a packed tent. There's loads of people were turned up, but you were you were fine with that. And I probably slightly was like, it's going to be no.

00;42;11;08 - 00;42;31;29
Unknown
And their download festival aren't going to ever want to work with us. This is going to be embarrassing, but I'm with you. There's a difference. When we do stuff together. I've got my like autistic grounded in facts and reality. So it's harder to spiral and I'm away somewhere. Yeah. Okay. So look, I still suffer with it. But I'm telling you now, it's way better.

00;42;32;02 - 00;42;45;29
Unknown
Yeah. And I feel that we deserve to be, like, as free of our SD as we can be, because it really does hold you back, and it's absolutely horrible. So what we've done in this episode.

00;42;46;02 - 00;43;21;11
Unknown
I've gone away and I've written down, like, the five reasons that relate to the therapy. I'm in the long term psychodynamic work that I really think has changed the game for me in feeling better, and I have gone away and researched a trusted friend, read it with the five tips of how to overcome RSV. So this is like Reddit versus science, logic versus emotion, much like our relationship.

00;43;21;14 - 00;43;25;28
Unknown
There you go. And I'm like, so.

00;43;26;00 - 00;43;39;18
Unknown
Yeah, sorry, I was just checking the temperature. You can't it's not your fault. But you can't. That will happen every time you get up. Okay. Well they are hot.

00;43;39;20 - 00;44;02;25
Unknown
You get to pick this rocket. Do we need to just take the hit on the sound rocket and say, no, no, it's down. That's fine. All right. We need to be with ten minutes in. Let's smash through these and see. Yeah. Okay, so why don't we start with the first Reddit tip, and then I'll hit you with the first therapy tip.

00;44;02;27 - 00;44;31;21
Unknown
Okay. Number one, do a self-compassion break. So when you find yourself spiraling, I just take a step back and I guess speak to yourself as if you were speaking to a third party because you would be great at giving advice. Write to someone else. Strike on the side. Oh, if you had D can be voluntary. There'd be no one better than me to talk you out of it.

00;44;31;21 - 00;44;54;06
Unknown
Okay, so self-compassion break. Let's go back to me backstage. German festival. Nobody's here. Panic attack. I'm going to lose my career. The team is going to be so embarrassed of me. Yeah, self-compassion break would just, like, stop. Is it just like a stop thinking those thoughts? Well, yes. Stop. And I guess what would you say if it was somebody else that you love and care for?

00;44;54;13 - 00;45;18;10
Unknown
Say? I'd say, let's say there is nobody here. You're still valuable and you're still bro. And you're going home to a loving like it's going to be okay. No one's going to embarrassed of you are okay. Yeah, well, there you go. Well, I'm not saying you stop there. Yeah, I'll stop thinking it. That's okay. You're ready for my number one, I am.

00;45;18;13 - 00;45;58;00
Unknown
This is going to start so boring. And like, sciency, it's attachment repair work. What? And secure attachments. Obviously we hear a lot on the internet about like, attachment styles, but actually it is based on like reality in what happens in therapy. Remember reading this gorgeous thing that was like 1 to 2 years of really good therapy can fundamentally change someone's life, as can five years in a very secure, long term relationship, which is beautiful because not everyone has access to long term therapy.

00;45;58;00 - 00;46;22;14
Unknown
So five years in a really healthy, loving relationship can actually heal a lot of those deep attachment wounds. But like, you know, Captain Logical as I am. Yeah, that how does that help? I was like, yeah. So when I first went to therapy, I was about nerves. I was convinced I was getting it wrong. I was going to be rejected by him.

00;46;22;14 - 00;46;45;19
Unknown
If I turned up one minute late, he was going to say, never wanted to see me. My first year of therapy. I was like, are you ending therapy with me numerous times because I was having RC triggers. We didn't call it that, but within therapy and I don't think I've run up. I feel confident. I've learned to trust that he will be there, I won't be forgotten or rejected.

00;46;45;19 - 00;47;13;18
Unknown
And over two years I've built like a real healthy attachment with him. And throughout that experience of feeling what that feels like, you sort of show yourself that it's safe to be in the world and be attached to people. So we've got just so I don't misunderstand what we're doing as a tip. The tip is go to therapy or get with a partner, and in five years you might be all right.

00;47;13;24 - 00;47;37;16
Unknown
So I feel like your tips are going to be short term. Yeah. For like like a Band-Aid. And my tips are like long term deep psychic change, which yes, is going to take years. Fine. Okay. That's cool. Number two. Yeah I love this one. Go on. Realize that you're not that important and reframe it. Wait a minute. Wait.

00;47;37;17 - 00;48;01;27
Unknown
No, let me explain. So let's say it's a text message that we need to chat or whatever, and you're like, oh my God, this person's going to. They hate me. They're going to end the friendship. They think I'm terrible, blah blah, blah, blah blah. I'm saying they don't. You are centering yourself in that universe, and you're not as important to them as you are to you.

00;48;01;27 - 00;48;27;29
Unknown
So they don't really think about you. They don't. They're thinking about them. About them. Okay. I was going to like, tell you I for being a naughty boy with that one. But actually I agree. I remember a few years ago going to an Amery Sunlight camp, and the sea was so bad that I ended up being sick in the toilet from nerves.

00;48;28;01 - 00;48;44;14
Unknown
And I remember turning up and there was like Amery and like 20 songwriters, of which I was one. I couldn't even walk in the room if I was meeting. I was so panicked. I was like, they're gonna stare at me. They're going to hate me. I'm going to walk funny, say the wrong thing. I had to ring my friend.

00;48;44;20 - 00;48;56;23
Unknown
I'd be like, hello, could you come and get me? I'm sorry. Paris walked in with my friends. It felt like all eyes were on me. And the reason?

00;48;56;25 - 00;49;13;16
Unknown
No one cares. It's like old song wire in the corner. Like I'm Marie's. They're so awkward. I went and sat down so I didn't have to, like, look at anyone or feel embarrassed. And then she came and sat next to me. I couldn't speak, I went mute, I couldn't speak.

00;49;13;19 - 00;49;33;13
Unknown
That is good advice for your music as well, because you often think of music. Everyone's going to hate me. If this video doesn't connect, everyone's going to like unfollow me. And I never listen to a single song again. Like if someone watches a video, they'll just scroll to the next video. You're one of maybe 300 videos they'll watch that day.

00;49;33;13 - 00;49;56;11
Unknown
They don't care. Listen, that's nobody cares. I just I feel like that is so good. Okay, my number two. Oh, well, before you doing on the two. Sorry. What's the difference between anxiety and D is that I think it's the same thing. The same thing. Yeah, but it's more like rejection. So it would be someone else is going to reject you, a crowd or a person.

00;49;56;15 - 00;50;22;17
Unknown
But it's the same. You can be anxious about being mugged on the street. That would. Yeah, that would be okay. Ready? Yeah. My number two heal narcissistic vulnerabilities. Okay. What does that mean then what? So so I'm not going to understand a single one of yours. I've just I've just realized. So yeah, I don't really understand neither. Yeah.

00;50;22;19 - 00;50;49;16
Unknown
Narcissistic vulnerability. So online people talk about narcissism and it's always like this like enemy or this monster. But actually we're all on a narcissistic scale. There's healthy versions of narcissism to sit down and do a podcast. Yeah. Shows a healthy version of narcissism. It's what allows you to show up, do things, accomplish things, and you kind of need a little bit of it.

00;50;49;21 - 00;51;23;25
Unknown
Well, and to be online, we make videos online. That would form part of it as well. Yeah. But where it's kind of gone wrong in people where your, your world can collapse if you aren't seen or validated in a sort of nice way. It means that you're like internal system for just being okay and self-soothing in a variety of different situations, isn't there are I think I understand this one is is it very aligned to.

00;51;23;26 - 00;51;54;16
Unknown
And unfortunately, it's why so many people in the music industry specifically suffer quite dramatically with their mental health. Is it like where their self-esteem is, like directly aligned with how successful they are? Right. Yeah. So it's almost like narcissism in its real sense. I'm going to use my creativity or some kind of talent or my humor to try and be like, it's it's it's sad in, in a way.

00;51;54;19 - 00;52;19;22
Unknown
And if you are liked, it feels wonderful. And if you're rejected, it feels like the end of the world because you're desperately trying to just feel okay and enough. And that comes from being a kid who wasn't, like, validated and that really normal way. Like, you know, if you fall over and you hurt your knee and it's healthy, so, oh, you've had your knee, you'll be okay.

00;52;19;24 - 00;52;51;22
Unknown
But what often people heard is get up, stop crying. So you never learned to get love or get soothing from the parent or yourself? I'd be more worried if I put a hole in the knee of the trousers that I was wearing, usually school trousers. So in terms of healing this again, it comes back to look, having a happy home life that isn't related to success or failure or rejection.

00;52;51;28 - 00;53;14;07
Unknown
And also if you are in long term therapy with a great therapist, that relationship where you are seen and validated without having to perform, be like being nice or be successful and you just learn to. You just learn to be okay. There's nothing metahuman. You are right on to you. Well, before I do my number three, let's chat about our sponsors.

00;53;14;07 - 00;53;20;16
Unknown
We love our sponsor. We'll do that later. You.

00;53;20;18 - 00;53;56;16
Unknown
Right back to it. I love this one so deeply. My next sticky plaster fact check. So obviously RSD is very much rooted in the emotional world rather than the logical, factual world. So, like, what is it that actually happened? And it would typically be somebody has sent you a message to say we need to chat, which means they want to chat to you and it could be good or bad.

00;53;56;17 - 00;54;17;02
Unknown
Yeah. But what RSG does is project the worst case scenario onto everything. So let's go back to me behind the curtain in Germany. Nobody's here. My career is over. Everyone's gonna laugh at me. Why don't you just. Yeah. Why don't you just check? Because then we're dealing with reality. And if no one's there, cool. We're going to be okay.

00;54;17;04 - 00;54;34;07
Unknown
As was the case and the tent was packed out, I was like, oh, my, here's the thing as well, right? For that exact example, say you didn't want to peek through the tent, or you could just ask someone else to go and have a look. Go and have a look. Let me know how many people are in and crowd.

00;54;34;09 - 00;55;01;29
Unknown
If they came back and said one, the anxiety would be gone. You'd be like, well okay, cool, I guess I'm falling for one person. Like knowing the truth, even if it's bad, is always better than the imagined worst case scenario because you can deal with it. Yeah. Okay. So fact check. So let's say like a super common example is someone saying they want to talk.

00;55;02;01 - 00;55;23;09
Unknown
It's like checking yourself. The only thing they've told me is they want to talk. Yeah. We don't need to write a novel about why that's them ending the friendship or telling me something bad I've done. Yeah. I used to get it with, like, bad reviews on books and stuff as well. You don't anymore. Do you? I don't even read them anymore.

00;55;23;11 - 00;55;42;19
Unknown
Yeah, well we do. Thanks for everyone that's there. No, no, I don't you do. You go and read them and you'll tell me select pieces. But good reviews felt a little too good and bad reviews about a little too bad. So I just keep myself chained up. Right. But even my number three, I am ready. Yeah, you can guess what it means.

00;55;42;21 - 00;55;46;11
Unknown
Train mental.

00;55;46;13 - 00;56;10;12
Unknown
I can't guess what that means. No. I'm sorry. No. So mental is like the ability to understand my thoughts and feelings being separate from your thoughts and feelings, and that we have a different experience and that mine don't relate to yours. Yeah. So if you go into the middle of an ID trigger, let's say my friend Cat says rocks.

00;56;10;12 - 00;56;14;01
Unknown
I'd love to chat to you.

00;56;14;04 - 00;56;46;05
Unknown
Trigger says she's ending the friendship. She's figured something out. She's annoyed with me. I've done something mentally. Says, what's going on for Cat? Oh, she was finishing her psychology degree this month. I wonder if she's okay. Does she need help? You put the other person's life facts experience back on the table. Make it less about you. Funnily enough, quite linked to the narcissism as well.

00;56;46;06 - 00;57;15;11
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. And you're one of what was it? You're not the important one. You're not that important. Yeah. Relationships are two people. If there's more in the conversation, it's more every single person as their own deeply intense emotional, intellectual life. And it's like the ability to understand that in the moment. Yeah. And it can be so, so useful and mental.

00;57;15;13 - 00;57;50;06
Unknown
Something you work on in therapy, it can take a long time to develop, but that skill acts as a dimmer switch, because the moment I'm thinking about you and your life, I'm out of my own. Yeah, narrative, out of that own self destructive thinking, even outside of our SD, I would imagine that's an incredibly useful skill to have because and needed when right for us to, for example, because I see the world very differently to you and my experience is always completely different to yours.

00;57;50;07 - 00;58;09;14
Unknown
It's a great way of explaining it mentally is if we're having an argument and you're shutting down the ability for me to go rich is autistic. He's shut him down. I can see the signs. I'm going to suggest he has some time alone. I'm going to take the temperature down rather than he's like me. He's making it work.

00;58;09;15 - 00;58;31;25
Unknown
Like, yeah, I like it. It's lovely. All right, my number four. Come on. I might get some criticism for this one. Oh, okay. Just do the scary thing. Anyway, so as I say, we keep using the same example, but just messaging back. Cool. Are you available now or just get on stage. Yeah. That's that's how you do it.

00;58;31;25 - 00;59;03;00
Unknown
And I so envious of you to not have our SD. But I do agree with this one. Well again so many of these things are linked, but even if it's bad, it's better than thinking about the badness. You train the muscle that every time you do the scary thing and you aren't annihilated and you exist through it, that it's going to be okay.

00;59;03;07 - 00;59;28;15
Unknown
So if I go back to starting music again and putting videos on the internet and just how it was like torturous having to go through that and I had to dress up as a different character to allow myself to even give it a go. Not every video did well and you feel the pain of rejection, but you survive and you're okay, and then you go again.

00;59;28;16 - 00;59;51;09
Unknown
Let's say you need to have a really difficult conversation with someone, and you're ruminating on all the ways it could go wrong. Just do it like it's always better to just have the convo, send the text, send the email, than it's so scary that you'll feel so much better when it's done. Well. Not only that, right, so you can't say this about everyone but you specifically.

00;59;51;10 - 01;00;13;08
Unknown
Even if it is bad. You're one of the most resilient people that I know. So although you'll be worrying about what's the bad things happen? What if the bad things happen? Even if the bad things do happen? You like switch on. You're like, right, what do I do next? How do I get through? What's next? ADHD people are great in a.

01;00;13;11 - 01;00;37;17
Unknown
Okay, okay. What's this? Walking through them down. You're saying ADHD get down down HDP days? I don't know if he's gone. Should I check my phone? What are we on? 26 minutes. This is okay. We'll just be quite quick with that. So I don't need this anymore.

01;00;37;20 - 01;00;44;18
Unknown
Let me just check that it's gone before we start again. No.

01;00;44;21 - 01;00;53;01
Unknown
If it's happening, don't know. Cars not going to say.

01;00;53;04 - 01;01;04;17
Unknown
What are you going to do, mate. Little cockpit. If he opened the door or rocket would be straight on his back. Belly button I know, I know.

01;01;04;20 - 01;01;29;16
Unknown
Growling no, no joke. Getting back over with a treat. And should we just smash through? Well, yeah. But I sort of wanted to know what's actually happening. So yes, I threw the inside I don't know, he's not outside his car, but he might be inside his car.

01;01;29;19 - 01;01;34;24
Unknown
Check. Not to check.

01;01;34;26 - 01;01;37;28
Unknown
Should we just go?

01;01;38;01 - 01;01;42;03
Unknown
Do you remember where.

01;01;42;05 - 01;02;03;25
Unknown
ADHD people are actually great in a crisis? So if the crisis becomes real, we're going to be better. What we're terrible at is getting lost in our fantasies, our RSD, the rumination, the worst case scenario. So yeah, get stuck in to just do it, I think. Just do it. Yeah, I love it. Okay. Mine number four. Are you ready?

01;02;03;27 - 01;02;08;11
Unknown
Integrate split object.

01;02;08;14 - 01;02;14;27
Unknown
That's why we need to turn off. I need to reset the camera now. Mine number four. That's fine.

01;02;15;00 - 01;02;19;10
Unknown
Be fine. No way. Yeah. Yeah.

01;02;19;12 - 01;02;29;04
Unknown
You ready to rumble, teams? Yeah. Okay. Down! Yeah. Down.

01;02;29;07 - 01;02;32;18
Unknown
Stay. Good boy.

01;02;32;20 - 01;02;58;18
Unknown
Yeah. Right. You ready for my number four? I am, yeah. Let's see what you think it means. Integrate split object representations. My God. I don't know. You need a degree to understand these. So it's when she hits, we see the other person becomes a bully, a monster. They hate us. Our enemy. We forget their humanity. It's kind of like black and white.

01;02;58;19 - 01;03;34;27
Unknown
Thinking all or nothing. Thinking they hate me or love me. And when there's an artist trigger. Somebody becomes all bad. Scary. How to destroy us. To reject us. So it's learning and understanding that people can be great. People can be nuanced. No. Very rarely is somebody all good or all bad. My challenge on this particular one is, I reckon out of everything that you've said, this is the one that you still maybe struggle with, with the all or nothing thing.

01;03;34;29 - 01;04;04;19
Unknown
Yeah. Someone's good or they're bad. Yeah. 100%. Especially if I'm in a disagreement. It's a very easy for it to become all consuming. And for me to forget the nuance or the humanity. It's something I'm still working on. But, like, if someone does something horrible to me, really nasty, I can. You are really. You are really nasty and you can forget the other things in there.

01;04;04;19 - 01;04;42;26
Unknown
Like, I think it's quite human to think like that. I mean, yeah, it's certainly if it's not human, it's very ADHD. Yeah. We are all or nothing. It can be hobbies. It can be people with very like all or nothing. Because. Because I think I naturally would be devil's advocate. I would, I would really I would remember the good things about someone like you can always kind of see the logic and kind of call me back to reality, which is really good, but that this is the posh way of saying it's split objects, splitting things into into good and bad.

01;04;42;27 - 01;05;06;06
Unknown
So it's easier to understand. Again, it's all from childhood. That's just like innate sense of. And it might not be a real memory, but what your body remembers being screened out or hit or shamed or left alone as a young person, it's that same emotion that comes back up. It's like a deep fear. That person's the big angry devil.

01;05;06;09 - 01;05;24;03
Unknown
What you would have felt like being hit maybe, or yeah, or screamed at. So it's just understanding that we're all wonky adults. We're all gray. We can all be be good and bad, and to accept that somebody might not like you in a moment, or somebody might speak to you a bit rudely, but also care about you. Yeah.

01;05;24;08 - 01;05;58;04
Unknown
And understanding the interplay between those different things. Okay. You ready for my final one? I'm ready. Externalize the rest. So look at the rest as like. So you logically understand what's happening again. I know that this is easier said than actually done when you're, like in the middle of it, but to try and look down on the situation and the and the a bit like looking down on the ADHD when you lose your wallet rather than thinking you're a terrible, useless human being.

01;05;58;04 - 01;06;29;21
Unknown
It's like I've got ADHD, so therefore that's why I've lost this. I love that actually, I do externalize my ND a lot, and it just helps put a bit of space between you and what is unbearably shameful, even though it's not losing a wallet, being late, getting on the wrong train, the ability to just be like, oh, is ADHD allows me not to take on useless loser energy that I lived under for so long.

01;06;29;22 - 01;06;56;12
Unknown
Well, it also helps with as as it does external externalizing ADHD. It helps the other person as well. So like for me, I externalize your ADHD because if I didn't, we would argue all the time about the clothes all over the floor or whatever. Forgetting things and with is horrible to say, but it's easy for the other person to think, oh my God, it's so sensitive.

01;06;56;13 - 01;07;16;25
Unknown
Like, oh, why? Like is so anxious, you're becoming too much. Whereas if you externalize it, it's like, oh, this is what's happening here. There's an SD trigger, something's going on. How can we work with it? I love that, actually. And I do think that that would be quite helpful in the moment just to recognize our SDS kicking off here.

01;07;16;26 - 01;07;44;05
Unknown
Right. Yeah. Just just that just this is RSD, not me. Yeah. Helps you to have a little bit of space between you and something troubling. I love it, love it. Well done. Read it. Okay. My final one. You ready? I'm always ready. Soften your super ego. Soften your super ego. No. Go on. So you're super ego. It's kind of comes from a Freudian idea.

01;07;44;09 - 01;08;11;29
Unknown
It's kind of like the head teacher. The one that keeps you on track and keeps you doing the right thing. And for people with ADHD, often they were very, very, very harsh. Super ego, the internal critic. Why have we got such a harsh internal critic? We grew up being told too loud, too much. Sit down. Can't focus. Naughty, bad.

01;08;12;01 - 01;08;34;24
Unknown
So the voices that we had as a kid, we internalized and we just kept playing it right. So we effectively play. We become an echo of the early criticisms, and we live under it forever. So it's why an aged person might suffer with low self-esteem. A lot of negative self-talk. You weren't born with that. You weren't born thinking, I'm too much.

01;08;34;25 - 01;09;03;16
Unknown
I'm too loud. I'm embarrassing. You learned it, and then you just kept playing the record. Fascinating, right? So in order to change your super ego or that internal critic, you have to finds a different voice. And that starts by labeling the voice understanding. When you say hate myself, they hate that it's not you, that it's not real, that you've learned that, that it's an echo.

01;09;03;16 - 01;09;24;01
Unknown
And to try and find within that a different voice. Can you access your kind of voice, your adult voice in that moment, and speak to yourself in a kind of way? I think it can take a really long time, years to undo all of that shame that's going to feel like your personality. Yeah, but you can do it.

01;09;24;01 - 01;09;44;16
Unknown
And actually, if I think of the biggest change in my life that nobody sees, but it's probably saved my life, it's what's going on in here because most of the time now here being your hair. Oh, so my head. Yeah, most of the time. It's quite a lovely place. It's quite vibey, is quite fun. There's self-compassion, there's humor.

01;09;44;17 - 01;10;09;08
Unknown
Whereas it used to be keeping score of all the ways I was messing up. And when I did, it would be very loud. And I think, you know, today's episode broadly, I think both tips, both sets of tips are really valuable. One might help you get through in that moment, and the other is a real long term approach around healing sustainably, I guess.

01;10;09;09 - 01;10;29;19
Unknown
Yeah, it's both valid. We need stuff. We need the band aids for today, and we also need to have hope that we can move through and we can heal this. We can live relatively honestly free. There you go. This has been the Late Bloomers podcast. I hope that you liked it. If you didn't, please don't tell me because I'll jump a cliff.

01;10;29;21 - 01;10;42;11
Unknown
Joke. Jake. Jake, if you have liked it, give us a like a subscribe, a follow. And as always, we hope and cannot wait to see you next week.

01;10;42;13 - 01;10;54;24
Unknown
Right. I'm just going to leave it right. I'm going to do loop. Yeah, I'll just leave it. Go.

01;10;54;26 - 01;11;19;21
Unknown
When you have ADHD or other types of neurodivergent, sometimes we can find ourselves being sensitive to sound. That might look like being out for dinner and hearing what they're talking about on another table, rather than the person you're with. It might feel like going to a loud concert and feeling physical pain or discomfort because the music is too loud.

01;11;19;21 - 01;11;50;11
Unknown
It might just be not being able to sleep because there's a low hun in the room. That's what loop earplugs are for. And they have an earplug for every single one of those types of experiences. Rich and I absolutely love them. We wear them every day, most days, certainly when I leave the house. Anytime you leave the house and we're wearing them, we are so lucky and honored that they are a sponsor of the Late Bloomers podcast, and all of our listeners get 20% off.

01;11;50;12 - 01;11;59;01
Unknown
You can go to the show notes that link to this episode or to the link in our social media bios.

01;11;59;03 - 01;13;29;22
Unknown
Get $1 billion. Oh, yeah. Come in. Sit sit. Stay. And then if you click, I feel like. Yeah. The day.

01;13;29;24 - 01;13;37;24
Unknown
Okay. Down. Down!

01;13;37;27 - 01;13;52;11
Unknown
Get in your bed. Can you bed? Okay. I got a testing, testing, testing, testing. Let's go. Team. Come on in. Good.

01;13;52;14 - 01;14;00;10
Unknown
Good, good. What is the intro? Do you think?

01;14;00;12 - 01;14;29;02
Unknown
The show ruined my life for 40 years? Yeah. Or, The. It's estimated that 100% of people with ADHD. I think that's bigger. Oh, I see. Ruined my life. You might be ruining yours if you find yourself overthinking in spirals. Really? Talk about how to beat it today. And then you could have that. Yeah, yeah. That's fine. We can get that out in the episode.

01;14;29;05 - 01;14;33;19
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah.

01;14;33;21 - 01;14;57;18
Unknown
RSD ruined my life for 40 years, and I didn't even know what it was. If you find yourself spiraling when somebody asks you if when somebody asks you if it's okay, when somebody asks for it. If you find yourself spiraling, if somebody asks for a chat, or if somebody is going to give you work feedback, or if you're being held back from following your dreams because you think you're going to be rejected.

01;14;57;19 - 01;15;27;17
Unknown
This episode is for you. Welcome to Late Bloomers, where we are getting our lives together eventually. Watch you by our amazing sponsor Loop earplugs. Oh my God, we are coming for today and I am so ready! It's estimated. So I learned recently that it's estimated that 100% of people that have got ADHD struggle with RSV, so I reckon this could resonate with people.

01;15;27;18 - 01;15;55;11
Unknown
Yeah, if you have ADHD, you probably have. And also, it's not only ADHD. Anyone that is sensitive or struggles with mental illness caused borderline personality disorder. Any of those types of things are probably going to come under this banner. So we're getting into it today. Yeah we are. I think maybe the start point should be maybe an explanation of what is rather than to over acronym people.

01;15;55;14 - 01;16;30;21
Unknown
Artie Nht seriously, it is rejection sensitivity dysphoria, which is really like weird and clinical way of saying super sensitive, super sensitive, soul crushing shame that comes in moments when you feel you're being rejected or perceived rejection, perceived rejection. It overtakes your body and mind. It's like a shame virus and you really spiral. You can really spiral. You can ruminate, you lose touch with reality.

01;16;30;21 - 01;16;48;13
Unknown
And I think the saddest thing is it can hold you back from friendships, relationships, or following your dreams. Yeah, because you think I'll be rejected. So you choose not not to do something. And that's why it's so important to talk about. And is that so? You started by saying it ruined your life. Would you say that they're the biggest reasons?

01;16;48;13 - 01;17;15;05
Unknown
Because it prevents like what? What reason did it ruin your life? The constant rumination that I was in, about everyone that hated me, or how I was going to be rejected, or what I'd done wrong, replaying embarrassing moments I couldn't even have a normal text conversation with someone without spiraling into. And it's not just feeling like you're being rejected, it is.

01;17;15;05 - 01;17;39;26
Unknown
But your body. It would often be like panic, anxiety, shaking hands, fear like it's visceral and I guess as well like to have a successful life, whether that be objectively career wise or just good mental health. It's always talked about that you need to be present in the moment. And I guess with it's like you're never you're never present.

01;17;39;26 - 01;18;02;26
Unknown
You're in this, this fantasy. It's funny, you know, we know people with ADHD use fantasy as a way to use their creativity and to escape. Funnily enough, you're using your creativity, but in a very negative way. You're like creating the worst case scenario. But yeah, I think it's just so important to say it's not just a thought exercise.

01;18;02;26 - 01;18;33;09
Unknown
Oh, I think maybe I'm being rejected. It's a full body negative experience that at the time feels impossible to move through. However, you can move through it and you can tell me if I'm wrong here. Okay. I don't know if I have it anymore or as much anymore compared to a few years ago. Well, I guess I'll answer that question with a question.

01;18;33;10 - 01;18;56;03
Unknown
You certainly don't display signs that you have it specifically around people that you're close to and stuff. But I suppose the question is like, do you have the feeling at first and are you just better at managing it, or do you not have it at all in the first place? I have it so much less now with my core relationships.

01;18;56;05 - 01;19;25;14
Unknown
There are two places where I still have it, which is music and my relationship with my dad. Yeah. So inviting my dad to the wedding, I was, I mean, I was physically sick with with anxiety and panic. Don't even know if that's RSD or just the state of our relationship music. Big time. So whenever I play a gig, I expect nobody to show up.

01;19;25;16 - 01;19;57;22
Unknown
And that's like in my bones. It's definitely probably for a different episode. But I would say that music, music exerts the unhealthiest version of you. Like everything else in life, you. I would say you are really strong, really like level headed, no anxiety, no imposter syndrome that like just confident and present and just, yeah, like a boss. But music, music takes you back to probably pre therapy quite often.

01;19;57;24 - 01;20;23;14
Unknown
Yeah it does. And that's you know it's a really interesting place for me to notice RSD. And it's an area where I don't necessarily have command of it. So just as a very quick example, last weekend I was in Germany, I was playing a festival and I was stood backstage and I just became obsessed with the idea that nobody was there.

01;20;23;16 - 01;20;48;04
Unknown
And my team were going to think, why have I even been booked? And people were going to laugh at me and ask, like, I need to just go out on stage and give the best performance I can to nobody. If there's one person there, I'll, I'll make my contact with them. I haven't even looked round the curtain like I was catastrophizing how I was going to make it through and make myself look okay in front of my team and get through the 45 minutes and then looked around the curtain.

01;20;48;05 - 01;21;08;00
Unknown
Well, it's interesting because as a direct comparison to that, we did a leg bloomers episode at download, right? And we thought there was going to be like five people there, and we were fine with that. Turns out it was a packed tent with loads of people turned up. But you were you were fine with that. And I probably slightly was like it was going to be no.

01;21;08;00 - 01;21;28;23
Unknown
And the Download Festival aren't going to ever want to work with us. This is going to be embarrassing, but I'm with you. The difference when we do stuff together, I've got my like autistic grounded in facts and reality, so it's harder to spiral when I'm away somewhere. Yeah, okay, so look, I still suffer with it, but I'm telling you now, it's way better.

01;21;28;24 - 01;21;42;18
Unknown
Yeah. And I feel that we deserve to be, like, as free of as we can be, because it really does hold you back, and it's absolutely horrible. So what we've done in this episode.

01;21;42;20 - 01;22;16;23
Unknown
I've gone away and I've written down like, the five reasons that relate to the therapy. I'm in the long term psychodynamic work that I really think has changed the game for me in feeling better, and I have gone away and researched our trusted friend Reddit with the five tips of how to overcome RSV. So this is like Reddit versus science, logic versus emotion.

01;22;16;25 - 01;22;36;14
Unknown
That's like our relationship. There you go. And I'm like, so oh yeah, sorry, I was just checking the temperature. You can't it's not your fault. But you can't. That will happen every time you get up. Yeah. Well they are hot.

01;22;36;16 - 01;22;59;15
Unknown
Rocket to put this rocket, do we need to just take the hit on the sound rocket and say, no, no. It's down. It's fine. All right, we need to be quick. We're ten minutes in. Let's smash through these and see. Okay, so why don't we start with the first Reddit tip, and then I'll hit you with the first therapy tip.

01;22;59;17 - 01;23;28;13
Unknown
Okay. Number one, do a self-compassion rake. So when you find yourself spiraling, I just take a step back and I guess speak to yourself as if you were speaking to a third party because you would be great at given advice. Write to someone else struggling about, oh, if you had RSD, it can be further from the truth. There'd be no one better than me to talk you out of it.

01;23;28;13 - 01;23;51;17
Unknown
Okay, so self-compassion break. Let's go back to me backstage. German festival. Nobody's here. Panic attack. I'm going to lose my career. The team's going to be so embarrassed of me. Yeah. Self-compassion break. We just stop. Is it just like a stop thinking those thoughts? Yeah. Well, yes. Stop. And I guess what would you say if somebody else that you love and care for would say?

01;23;51;23 - 01;24;13;06
Unknown
I'd say, let's say there is nobody here. You're still valuable and you're still brill, and you're going home to a loving like it's going to be okay. No one's going to be embarrassed of you. Are you okay? Yeah. Well, there you go. Well, I'm not saying to stop there. Yeah, stop thinking it, lads. Okay. You ready for my number one?

01;24;13;07 - 01;24;54;22
Unknown
I am. This is going to start so boring. And, like, sciency, it's attachment repair work. What? And secure attachments. Obviously, we hear a lot on the internet about like, attachment styles, but actually it is based on like reality in what happens in therapy. Remember reading this gorgeous thing that was like 1 to 2 years of really good therapy can fundamentally change someone's life, as can five years in a very secure, long term relationship, which is beautiful because not everyone has access to long term therapy.

01;24;54;22 - 01;25;19;06
Unknown
So five years in a really healthy, loving relationship can actually heal a lot of those deep attachment wounds. But like, you know, Captain Logical as I am. Yeah, that how does that help? I was like, yeah. So when I first went to therapy, I was a bag of nerves. I was convinced I was getting it wrong. I was going to be rejected by him.

01;25;19;06 - 01;25;42;11
Unknown
If I turned up one minute late, he was going to say he never wanted to see me. My first year of therapy, I was like, are you ending therapy with me numerous times because I was having RC triggers. We didn't call it that, but within therapy and I don't anymore, I rock up. I feel confident, I've learned to trust that he will be there, I won't be forgotten or rejected.

01;25;42;13 - 01;26;10;11
Unknown
And over two years I've built like a real healthy attachment with him. And throughout that experience of feeling what that feels like, you sort of show yourself that it's safe to be in the world and be attached to people. So we forgot. I don't misunderstand what we're doing as a tip. The tip is go to therapy or get rid of a partner, and in five years you might be right.

01;26;10;15 - 01;26;34;08
Unknown
So I feel like your tips are going to be short term. Yeah. For like like the band aid and my tips are like long term deep psychic change, which yes, is going to take years. Fine. Okay. That's that's cool. Number two. Yeah I love this one. Go on. Realize that you're not that important and reframe it. Wait, wait.

01;26;34;09 - 01;26;58;17
Unknown
No, let me explain. So let's say it's a text message that we need to chat or whatever. And you're like, oh my God, this person is going to they hate me. They're going to end the friendship. They think I'm terrible, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm saying they don't. You are centering yourself in that universe, and you're not as important to them as you are to you.

01;26;58;17 - 01;27;24;21
Unknown
So they don't really think about you. They they're thinking about them. About them. Okay. I was going to like, tell you off for being a naughty boy with that one. But actually I agree. I remember a few years ago going to an and Marie songwriting camp, and the RSC was so bad that I ended up being sick in the toilet from nerves.

01;27;24;23 - 01;27;43;20
Unknown
And I remember turning up and there was like Anne-Marie and like 20 songwriters, of which I was one. I couldn't even walk in the room if I was meeting. I was so panicked. I was like, going to stare at me. They're going to hate me. I'm going to walk funny, say the wrong thing. I had to ring my friend and be like, hello, could you come and get me?

01;27;43;21 - 01;28;10;09
Unknown
What's that embarrassing. Walked in with my friends. It felt like all eyes were on me and Marissa. No one cares. It's like old song in the corner. Like. And Marie's there. So awkward. I went and sat down so I didn't have to, like, look at anyone or feel embarrassed. And then she came and sat next to me. I couldn't speak, I went mute, I couldn't speak.

01;28;10;12 - 01;28;30;05
Unknown
That is good advice for your music as well, because you often think of music. Everyone's going to hate me. This video doesn't connect. Everyone's going to like unfollow me and like, never listen to a single song again. Like if someone watches a video, they'll just scroll to the next video. You're one of maybe 300 videos they'll watch that day.

01;28;30;05 - 01;28;53;07
Unknown
They don't care. Listen, lads, nobody cares. I just I feel like that is so good. Okay, my number two. Oh, well, before you do number two. Sorry. What's the difference between anxiety and D is that I think it's okay, but it's more like rejection. So it would be someone else is going to reject you a crowd or a person.

01;28;53;07 - 01;29;27;02
Unknown
But it's something you can be anxious about being mugged on the street. That would be honesty. Okay. Ready? My number two heal narcissistic vulnerabilities. Okay. What does that mean then? Well, so I'm not going to understand a single one of yours. I've just I've just realized. So. Yeah, I don't really understand me. Narcissistic vulnerability. So online people talk about narcissism and it's always like this, like enemy or this monster.

01;29;27;02 - 01;29;52;08
Unknown
But actually we're all on a narcissistic scale. There's healthy versions of narcissism. Just sit down and do a podcast. Yeah. Shows a healthy version of narcissism. It's what allows you to show up, do things, accomplish things, and you kind of need a little bit of it. Well, and to be online, right, we make videos online. That would form part of it as well.

01;29;52;11 - 01;30;20;18
Unknown
Yeah. But where it's kind of gone wrong in people where you're your world can collapse if you aren't seen or validated in a sort of nice way. It effectively means that you're like internal system for just being okay and self-soothing in a variety of different situations, isn't there are? I think I understand this one is is it very aligned to.

01;30;20;19 - 01;30;51;08
Unknown
And unfortunately, it's why so many people in the music industry specifically suffer quite dramatically with their mental health. Is it like where their self-esteem is, like directly aligned with how successful they are? Right? Yeah. So it's almost like narcissism in its realist sense. I'm going to use my creativity or some kind of talent or my humor to try and be like, it's it's it's sad in a, in a way.

01;30;51;10 - 01;31;16;14
Unknown
And if you are liked, it feels wonderful. And if you're rejected, it feels like the end of the world because you're desperately trying to just feel okay and enough. And that comes from being a kid who wasn't, like, validated in that really normal way. Like, you know, if you fall over and you hurt your knee and it's healthy to sort of here, oh, you've had your knee, you'll be okay.

01;31;16;16 - 01;31;48;13
Unknown
But what often people heard is like, get up, stop crying. So you never learned to get love or get soothing from the parent or yourself? I'd be more worried if I put Holden than the whole of the trousers that I was wearing. Usually school trousers. So in terms of healing this again, it comes back to look, having a happy home life that isn't related to success or failure or rejection.

01;31;48;14 - 01;32;10;28
Unknown
And also if you are in long term therapy with a great therapist, that relationship where you are seen and validated without having to perform, be like being nice or be successful and you just learn to. You just learn to be okay. You love it. That's a human. You are right onto you. Well, before I do my number three, let's chat about our sponsors.

01;32;10;28 - 01;32;17;08
Unknown
We love our sponsor. Do that later. You.

01;32;17;10 - 01;32;53;09
Unknown
Right back to it. I love this one so deeply. My next sticky plaster fact check. So obviously Risd is very much rooted in the emotional world rather than the logical, factual world. So like, what is it that's actually happened? And it would typically be somebody has sent you a message to say we need to chat, which means they want to chat to you and it could be good or bad.

01;32;53;10 - 01;33;13;08
Unknown
Yeah, but what does is project the worst case scenario onto everything. So let's go back to me behind the curtain in Germany. Nobody's here. My career is over. Everyone's gonna laugh at me. Why don't you just. Yeah. Why don't you just check? Because then we're dealing with reality. And if no one's there, cool, we're going to be okay.

01;33;13;08 - 01;33;31;03
Unknown
But as was the case and the tent was packed out, I was like, all right, here's the thing as well. Right? For that exact example, say you didn't want to peek through the tent, or you could just ask someone else to go and have a look. Go and have a look. Let me know how many people are in the crowd.

01;33;31;04 - 01;33;58;21
Unknown
If they came back and said one, the anxiety would be gone. He'd be like, right, okay, cool. I guess I'm falling for the one person. Like knowing the truth. Even if it's bad, it's always better than the imagined worst case scenario because you can deal with it. Yeah. Okay. So fact check. So let's say like a super common example is someone saying they want to talk.

01;33;58;24 - 01;34;20;02
Unknown
It's like checking yourself. The only thing they've told me is they want to talk. Yeah. We don't need to write a novel about why that's them ending the friendship or telling me something bad I've done. Yeah. You used to get it with, like, bad reviews on books and stuff as well. You don't anymore. Do you? I don't even read them anymore.

01;34;20;03 - 01;34;39;11
Unknown
Yeah, I well we do. Thanks for everyone. No no I don't you do you go and read them and you'll tell me select pieces. But good reviews felt a little too good and bad reviews felt a little too bad. So I just keep myself chained up. Right. You ready for my number three? Oh, yeah. I'm ready. Yeah, but you can guess what it means.

01;34;39;12 - 01;34;43;07
Unknown
Train mental.

01;34;43;10 - 01;35;07;05
Unknown
I can't guess what that means. No. I'm sorry. No. So mentalism is like the ability to understand my thoughts and feelings being separate from your thoughts and feelings, and that we have a different experience and that mine don't relate to yours. Yeah. So if you go into the middle of an D trigger, let's say my friend Kat says rocks.

01;35;07;05 - 01;35;37;14
Unknown
I'd love to chat to you. R's trigger says she's ending the friendship. She's figured something out. She's annoyed with me. I've done something mentally. Says, what's going on for Cat? Oh, she was finishing her psychology degree this month. I wonder if she's okay. Does she need help? You put the other person's life facts experience back on the table.

01;35;37;15 - 01;36;06;23
Unknown
Make it less about you. Funnily enough, quite linked to the narcissism one as well. Yeah. And you're one of what was it? You're not the important one. You're not that important. Yeah. Relationships of two people. Oh there's more in the conversation. It's more. Every single person has their own deeply intense emotional, intellectual life. And it's like the ability to understand that in the moment.

01;36;06;25 - 01;36;46;28
Unknown
Yeah. And it can be so, so useful mentally. Something you work on in therapy, it can take a long time to develop, but that skill acts as a dimmer switch. Because the moment I'm thinking about you in your life, I'm out of my own narrative, out of that own self destructive thinking, even outside of our city. I would imagine that's an incredibly useful skill to have because and needed when right for us to, for example, because I see the world very differently to you and my experience is always completely different to yours.

01;36;46;29 - 01;37;07;25
Unknown
It's a great way of explaining it mentally is if we're having an argument and you're shutting down the ability for me to go, Richard's autistic, he's shut him down. I can see the signs. I'm going to suggest he has some time alone. I'm going to take the temperature down rather than he's ignoring me. He's making it work. Like, yeah, I like it.

01;37;07;26 - 01;37;38;04
Unknown
It's lovely. All right, my number four. Come on. I might get some criticism for this one. Oh, okay. Just do the scary thing. Anyway, so as I said, we keep using the same example, but just messaging back. Cool. Are you available now or just get on stage? Yeah. That's that's how you do it. And I hope so. Envious of you to not have D but I do agree with this one.

01;37;38;05 - 01;38;15;28
Unknown
Well again so many of these things are linked, but even if it's bad, it's better than thinking about the badness. You train the muscle that every time you do the scary thing and you aren't annihilated and you exist through it, that it's going to be okay. So if I go back to starting music again and putting videos on the internet and just how it was like torturous having to go through that and I had to dress up as a different character to allow myself to even give it a go.

01;38;16;01 - 01;38;38;25
Unknown
Not every video did well and you feel the pain of rejection, but you survive and you're okay, and then you go again. Let's say you need to have a really difficult conversation with someone, and you're ruminating on all the ways it could go wrong. Just do it like it's always better to just have the combo, send the text, send the email in.

01;38;38;25 - 01;38;56;02
Unknown
It's so scary, but you'll feel so much better when it's done. Well. Not only that, but so you. You can't say this about everyone but you specifically. Even if it is bad. You're one of the most resilient people that I know. So although you'll be worrying about her worth, the bad things happen. What if the bad things happen?

01;38;56;03 - 01;39;13;09
Unknown
Even if the bad things do happen? You like switch on. You're like, right, what do I do next? How do I get through it? What's next? ADHD people are great in the.

01;39;13;12 - 01;39;34;11
Unknown
Walking down. You're saying ADHD get down down http stay. I don't know if he's gone. Should I check my phone? What are we on? 26 minutes. This is okay. We'll just be quite quick. Just. I don't need this anymore.

01;39;34;14 - 01;39;43;25
Unknown
Let me just check that it's gone before we start again. No.

01;39;43;28 - 01;39;49;26
Unknown
I don't know. His car's not gonna say.

01;39;49;29 - 01;40;03;00
Unknown
What are you gonna do now, little cockapoo? If he opened the door, rocket would be straight on his back. Belly button. I know, I know.

01;40;03;02 - 01;40;31;15
Unknown
Rocket. No, no. Get him back over with a treat. And should we just smash through? Well, yeah, but I was sort of wanted to know what's actually happening, so. Yeah. So the inside, I don't know. He's not outside his car, but he might be inside his car.

01;40;31;18 - 01;40;34;20
Unknown
Should we just go?

01;40;34;23 - 01;40;38;19
Unknown
Do you remember where.

01;40;38;21 - 01;41;05;03
Unknown
So ADHD people are actually great in a crisis. So if the crisis becomes real, we're going to be better. What we're terrible at is getting lost in our fantasies, our SD, the rumination, the worst case scenario. So yeah, get stuck in to just do it. Just do it. Yeah, I love it. Okay. My number for you. Ready. Integrate split object.

01;41;05;06 - 01;41;19;13
Unknown
That's why we needed to to reset the camera with you. My number four. That's fine. Yeah, that's a good point.

01;41;19;16 - 01;41;34;04
Unknown
Gentle, gentle. Good boy. He knows what gentle means.

01;41;34;06 - 01;41;38;13
Unknown
God.

01;41;38;15 - 01;41;42;21
Unknown
No.

01;41;42;23 - 01;41;56;01
Unknown
No. It'll be in the hallway for the next one. Well, we will do that. It'll be fine, in a way. If he's fine in here, we'll be fine. Always. Yeah, yeah.

01;41;56;04 - 01;42;06;04
Unknown
Right. Ready to rumble? Timmy's. Yeah. Okay. Damn! Yeah! Down!

01;42;06;07 - 01;42;09;18
Unknown
Stay. Good boy.

01;42;09;21 - 01;42;35;18
Unknown
Yeah. On the floor. Right. You ready for mine? Number four. I am, yeah. Let's see what you think it means. Integrate split object representations. God, I don't know. You need a degree to understand these. Say it's when she hits, we see the other person becomes a bully, a monster. They hate us. Our enemy, we forget their humanity. It's kind of like black and white.

01;42;35;19 - 01;43;11;27
Unknown
Thinking all or nothing. Thinking they hate me or love me. And when there's an trigger, somebody becomes all bad, scary out to destroy us, to reject us. So it's learning and understanding that people can be great. People can be nuanced. No. Very rarely is somebody all good or all bad. My challenge on this particular one is, I reckon out of everything that you've said, this is the one that you still maybe struggle with, with the all or nothing thing.

01;43;11;28 - 01;43;41;24
Unknown
Yeah. Someone's good or they're bad. Yep. 100%. Especially if I'm in a disagreement. It's very easy for it to become all consuming and for me to forget the nuance or the humanity. It's something I'm still working on. But, like, if someone does something horrible to me, really nasty, I can. You are. You are really nasty and you can forget the other things in their life.

01;43;41;25 - 01;44;19;26
Unknown
I think it's quite human to think like that. I mean, yeah, it's certainly if it's not human, it's very ADHD. Yeah, we are all or nothing. It can be hobbies. It can be people with very like, all or nothing. Because. Because I think I naturally would be devil's advocate. I would, I would really like I would remember the good things about someone like, yeah, you can always kind of see the logic and kind of call me back to reality, which is really good, but that this is the posh read saying it's split objects, splitting things into into good and bad.

01;44;19;27 - 01;44;43;03
Unknown
So it's easier to understand. Again, it's all from childhood. That's like innate sense of and it might not even be a real memory, but what your body remembers being screened out or hit or shamed or left alone as a young person, it's that same emotion that comes back up. It's like a deep fear. That person's the big angry devil.

01;44;43;07 - 01;45;05;17
Unknown
What you would have felt like being hit maybe, or yeah, or screamed out. It's just understanding that we're all wonky adults. We're all gray. We can all be be good and bad. And to accept that somebody might not like you in a moment, or somebody might speak to you a bit rudely, but also care about you. Yeah, and understanding the interplay between those different things.

01;45;05;19 - 01;45;35;04
Unknown
Okay. You ready for my final one? I'm ready. Externalize the rest. So look at the rest as RSD like. So you logically understand what's happening again. I know that this is easier said than actually done. And you're like in the middle of it. But to try and look down on the situation and the and the RSC, a bit like looking down on the ADHD when you lose your wallet rather than thinking you're a terrible, useless human being.

01;45;35;04 - 01;46;06;21
Unknown
It's like I've got ADHD, so therefore that's why I've lost this. I love that actually, I do externalize my PhD a lot, and it just helps put a bit of space between you and what is unbearably shameful, even though it's not losing a wallet, being late, getting on the wrong train, the ability to just be like, oh. ADHD is ADHD allows me not to take on useless loser energy that I lived under for so long.

01;46;06;22 - 01;46;33;11
Unknown
Well, it also helps with as as it does extend externalizing ADHD. It helps the other person as well. So like for me, I externalize your ADHD because if I didn't, we would argue all the time about the clothes on the floor or whatever. Forgetting things and with our SD is horrible to say, but it's easy for the other person to think, oh my God is so sensitive.

01;46;33;13 - 01;46;53;22
Unknown
Like, oh, why? Like you're so anxious, you're becoming too much. Yeah. Whereas if you externalize it, it's like, oh, this is what's happening here. There's an SD trigger, something's going on. How can we work with it? I love that, actually. And I do think that that would be quite helpful in the moment just to recognize our SDS kicking off here.

01;46;53;23 - 01;47;21;05
Unknown
Right. Yeah. Just just that just this is not me. Yeah. Helps you to have a little bit of space between you and something troubling. I love it, love it. Well done. Read it. Okay. My final one. You ready? I'm always ready. Soften your super ego. Soften your super ego. Nope. Gone. So you're super ego kind of comes from a Freudian idea.

01;47;21;08 - 01;47;46;16
Unknown
It's kind of like the head teacher. The one that keeps you on track and keeps you doing the right thing. And for people with ADHD, often they have a very, very, very harsh super ego. The internal critic. Why have we got such a harsh internal critic? We grew up being told too loud, too much. Sit down. Can't focus.

01;47;46;17 - 01;48;11;23
Unknown
Naughty, bad. So the voices that we had as a kid, we internalized and we just kept playing it right. So we effectively play. We become an echo of the early criticisms, and we live under it forever. So it's why an ADHD person might suffer with low self-esteem. A lot of negative self-talk. You weren't born with that. You weren't born thinking, I'm too much.

01;48;11;24 - 01;48;18;25
Unknown
I'm too loud. I'm embarrassing. You learned it, and then you just kept playing the record.

01;48;18;28 - 01;48;43;08
Unknown
Right? So in order to change your super ego or that internal critic, you have to find a different voice. And that starts by labeling the voice understanding. When you say hate myself, they hate that it's not you, that it's not real, that you've learned that, that it's an echo. And to try and find within that a different voice.

01;48;43;08 - 01;49;13;25
Unknown
Can you access your kind of voice, your adult voice in that moment and speak to yourself in a kind of way? I think it can take a really long time, years to undo all of that shame that's going to feel like your personality. Yeah, but you can do it. And actually, if I think of the biggest change in my life that nobody sees, but it's probably saved my life, it's what's going on in here because most of the time now here being your head.

01;49;13;26 - 01;49;38;11
Unknown
Oh, so my head. Yeah. Most of the time it's quite a lovely place. It's quite a vibe. It's quite fun. There's self-compassion, there's humor. Whereas it used to be keeping score of all the ways I was messing up. And when I did, it would be very hard. And I think, you know, today's episode broadly, I think both tips, both sets of tips are really valuable.

01;49;38;11 - 01;49;59;20
Unknown
One might help you get through in that moment, and the other is a real long term approach around healing sustainably, I guess. Yeah, it's both valid. We need stuff. We need the band aids for today, and we also need to have hope that we can move through and we can heal this, and we can live relatively free. There you go.

01;49;59;27 - 01;50;20;24
Unknown
This has been the Late Bloomers podcast. I hope that you liked it. If you didn't, please don't tell me because I'll jump off the cliff. Joke joke joke. If you haven't liked it, give us a like a subscribe, a follow. And as always, we hope and cannot wait to see you next week.

01;50;20;26 - 01;50;31;23
Unknown
I'm just gonna leave it. Yes.

01;50;31;26 - 01;50;56;19
Unknown
When you have ADHD or other types of neurodivergent, sometimes we can find ourselves being sensitive to sound that might look like being out for dinner and hearing what they're talking about on another table, rather than the person you're with. It might feel like going to a loud concert concert and feeling physical pain or discomfort because the music is too loud.

01;50;56;19 - 01;51;27;11
Unknown
It might just be not being able to sleep because there's a low hum in the room. That's what loop earplugs are for, and they have an earplug for every single one of those types of experiences. Rich and I absolutely love them. We wear them every day, most days, certainly when I leave the house. Anytime you leave the house and we're wearing them, we are so lucky and honored that they are a sponsor of the podcast and all of our listeners get 20% off.

01;51;27;12 - 01;51;42;10
Unknown
You can go to the show notes that are linked in this episode, or to the link in our social media bios. Great. And only. Oh, yeah. Come in. Sit,