:
Like with my dad and my mum, I've been really open about oestrogen, progesterone, you what medication I'm on, where my port was, where my lymph nodes were taken out. And I think you've just got to say, well, actually, this is actually what's happening and this is why it's happened and the science behind it as opposed to something I might have done in my past life.

Welcome to the Breast Cancer Now podcast, providing support and information to anyone affected by breast cancer. This podcast contains the personal stories, opinions and experiences of its speakers rather than those of breast cancer now. Today's guest is Pretti Stanley, a mother of three who was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2023. Ever since she started treatment, Pretti has been sharing her experiences online and helping to raise awareness of breast cancer, particularly in the South Asian community. She'll be talking about her own story, parenting with cancer and empowering South Asian women to take control of their breast health. Pretti welcome to the podcast.

Hi Laura.

So this is the Breast Cancer Now podcast. So let's get to now each other with a few warm up questions. If you could have the most talented private chef cook a special meal just for you and your loved ones, what would you order right now?

It'd have to be something Indian. I just love a classic in chicken curry. My mum makes a good one, but a nice one from a professional chef would be lovely too.

Perfect. No, your mum's one is probably always the best, I would say. If there's one thing from your life goals list that you could do now, what would it be and why?

I've always wanted to go to Australia. I've been to Australia, but I've always wanted to take my children and my husband to Oz and New Zealand because they're amazing countries. So for me, it's always about travel and new experiences going to different places.

And what brings you joy right now?

Being 50.

Yes, you recently celebrated your 50th birthday.

I'm just grateful to be here and have had the best month celebrating with my family and my friends. So I'm feeling all the joy.

I love that you've made a whole month of it as well. That is as it should be. So you were diagnosed with breast cancer in 2023 when you were 47. Tell us about how that diagnosis came about.

Yeah, was 47. It was September. Kids were just going back to school. We've had a great summer and you know, my eldest was about to do A levels, my middle one about to do GCSEs and my little baby girl was about to start secondary school. So I kind of done the primary school years and that was 13 years of being in primary school. So I felt like I was going to change, know, do more work and all this kind of stuff. I had loads of plans and uh my lovely friend, a really great friend of mine um found a lump and she found the lump. She was quite worried about it and I kind of helped her through that. diagnosis, she went to the hospital and stuff and she was fine, it was a cyst and uh they kind of drained it, it was all fine. But then she said to all of us, make sure you check yourselves. So I checked myself and I was in the bath actually and I was lying down and had a check on my left breast, fine, right breast, I felt a very hard lump above my nipple and I literally shot up and think, what is this? It can't be, it all just felt so surreal because she'd just been through it. So yeah, I an arm and then yeah, just went through the whole process of the GP and then, you know, getting it diagnosed. um But it came at a total shock, total, total shock.

And what are the chances as well? Like a friend gets a cyst and says, check your breasts, check your chest and then yours turns out to breast cancer.

Yeah yknow, when you think the universe is kind of working with you, it was really bizarre because um I'd seen an Instagram post you put up there and it looked amazing. And I thought, oh, You've been on, you know, she'd been to Cornwall. So I left her little voice note and it was that voice note and she just found it. Oh, she saw my name on her phone. Thought I, I'll let Pretti know what's going on. And it was, had I not, and I would have found out eventually, but it was just all happened. I felt like I was meant to find it. And she was just, yeah, it was all part of the whole, I don't know. Someone's looking out for me because it was early diagnosis.

Amazing. So, so you had an early diagnosis. Can you tell us what? kind of breast cancer it was and what treatment you had.

So em to start with it was stage two, um stage two invasive ductal carcinoma um and it was a yes it was ductal and but once they'd done the lumpectomy and they removed the tumour they found that it was a bit bigger it was three centimetres and so originally my breast surgeon said you'll be right with radiotherapy but because it was bigger he did some testing on it some genomics testing. And that went away and when it came back, there were more aggressive cancer cells in there. And because it was three centimetres, they were a little bit worried and there was a high risk of reoccurrence, 57 % of reoccurrence. And I remember, if you think I was diagnosed in September, this was now December and I still didn't really know my treatment plan. that... moment in between is it was really hard because you don't know you think you're having radiotherapy you don't know I knew for sure I was only going to have a lumpectomy at that point and there was there was nothing in the lymph nodes so it was you know so stage 2a and because of the high risk I was told I needed chemotherapy and it was oestrogen positive it was oestrogen positive

yeah okay yeah so you had chemotherapy and surgery

yes

and how are you now?

I'm much better I'm you know I mean I was two years ago so I had so chemotherapy started in January 2024. Having been told it was just before Christmas, I was going to have chemotherapy. I wanted to get on with it and I was lucky. I had private health care through my work. um So was lucky to get going with it. Had a port fitted just here and um off we went and it's scary, know, frightening to start chemotherapy. You have no idea. I remember thinking, um I thought I'd be lying in bed for all of it. six rounds of chemo, three of EC and three of desataxel. And I thought I'd be in bed, I'd be, you know, won't be able to do anything. So to the point where we don't have a TV in our bedroom. So I sort of said to my husband, I think we need a TV in our room. You need to go and buy a TV for us because I'll be lying in bed watching TV. So he did, he got a TV in our bedroom and I never watched it because I think, you know, it's... I think you kind of learn with it and I did actually sort of reach out to people on Instagram and seeing what other people were doing. I think that was really helpful finding that community and then knowing actually, yes, there is a cycle and I got to know what my cycle was. I had a few things that I thought I was always going to do, which was, you know, have my smoothie, do my yoga, go for my walks. The days I could, couldn't do it every day, but I pretty much, I'd say 95 % of the time I did. So that kind of got me through and it's slow. It's hard, but yeah, but now, yeah, I'm feeling much, much better.

And how does it feel to have just celebrated your 50th birthday?
And I know you're still on some drug treatment, but to have put that cancer experience largely behind you.

It feels amazing. I feel like this year is the first time I've actually don't think about cancer every day. You know, two years ago, I'd just finished treatment. So I feel it does take time. um It feels amazing. uh I think a couple of weeks before I turned 50, I felt really vulnerable. I felt really vulnerable and I was really excited about my birthday, but I don't know, thought, I'm getting older. What if it comes back? All those kind of irrational thoughts were coming in and I was feeling really vulnerable. But then once I got into the kind of celebrating it, I think it's been a really nice destruction. But I feel really grateful to be 50 and to be here and to be healthy at this moment in time.

I would also say that those thoughts are rational, not irrational. You know, it's always normal if you've ever had cancer to worry about it coming back. And I think sometimes milestones like birthdays only hammer home that you're getting older and anything can happen, but fingers crossed it won't.

So you do a lot of awareness raising within the South Asian community where it's less common to talk openly about breast cancer.
What's the cultural approach to health matters in your community?

Um, we don't speak about it, to be honest, you know, so when I was diagnosed, um, and I told my parents, know, that, you know, telling your children's one thing, telling your parents also is really, you know, it's very hard and it is a shock and they, because we don't talk about disease or cancer or anything, you know, in my family, um, my two aunts who are older, um, had cancer and my grandfather, but, they sadly passed away, but that was older age. So cancer equal death. So when I expressed that, I, you know, when I told people that and my parents had cancer, immediately thought that's something I was gonna die. And also their major thought was, um but why you can't, you're a good person, we're good people, know, this is, know, we have not done anything. It always comes back to karma, you know, your past karma. So we don't talk about, as a culture, I think we're quite private. We don't talk about sex, we don't talk about periods, we don't talk about puberty, any of that, menopause. And um so we also don't talk about cancer. So it was hard to speak openly about it. But when I told them, they were kind of like, we won't tell anyone, you know? I'm like, no, we have to tell everybody. We need to make sure everyone's checking and this is real. We can't kind of run away from it. So there were a lot of those conversations about just trying to be really open with them about it.

What do you think is driving you to be the one who says, no, we do need to talk about it?

Because I just think it's so important. I feel like I wasn't checking my breasts regularly. You know, I didn't, it wasn't part of my life. I wasn't informed and I now kick myself. So, and then that's not just a cultural thing. I think that's just a generic, I think there's lots of women that don't check themselves, but I think culturally we weren't pushed to. you know, so I have that drive for the South Asian community. I think it's really important because we don't talk about it. There's so many taboos around it. Going for a mammogram is quite invasive and culturally we're quite shy. We don't show and express ourselves in that respect. um And then, you know, for me, I had an amazing breast surgeon and he was male, you know, and that's, you know, for South Asian women, any woman, but even for me, it was like, ooh, but then I got quite comfortable about, you know, taking my top off and, you know, you kind of get used to it. So I think it's, yeah, for me, that's what drives me. um And to feel represented and I've just... seeing people that look like you going through something, I think you feel a connection. And I just want to sort of put myself out there to find that community of other South Asian women that are going through it. And do you know, I have, there have been many, even from Canada, India, Australia, that have reached out and it's been, yeah, it's been really nice.

What kind of things are those people saying?

Just nice to have found my account. my outlook on it, seeing South Asian women going through it and being positive, being strong. And not that I'm trying to do that. It's just the way I've approached it. But yeah, I think it's just the way I've navigated it and it's resonated. Like I said, when I first started, I thought I had this idea of what it was going to be like and it was not that. And I think uh if somebody else can see that, it doesn't have to be like that.

Of what the treatment would be like, of what cancer would be like, or of what telling people would be like?

What the treatment would be like.

OK. And how was it different from what you expected?

I just I had no idea what I thought I'd be sick. I thought I'd lose weight. I didn't. put on weight. know, all the misconceptions of what I think, human is different for everybody. So I'm not saying in this one way or no, you know, there's one right way. But you can still do stuff, you can still exercise, you can still eat well, you can still see your friends. You know, my son turned 18 after my second chemo and we had 25 of his friends over and I stayed upstairs because I wasn't feeling great, but he still celebrated his 18th. You we still carried on with their sport fixtures and uni visits and sixth form open days and stuff because that to me was, I was... really worried that I wouldn't be able to do any of those things when I found out that I had cancer and I would be going through chemotherapy.

yeah.

Yeah. I think we hear so many scare stories about chemo. Like you just, you see it in the films and on TV, don't you? And you think, right, I'm going to lose my hair. I'm going to be puking all the time. But the reality is that that is the case for some people, but the reality is there are lots of anti-sickness medications they can give you. whilst it will wipe you out. to some degree, you should also hopefully be able to continue, but it affects everyone completely differently.

exactly.

Yeah, it's different for every person. It's not like, oh, it's going to be fine. It's easy. It's not really isn't that easy. We both know that, but it is manageable and you can navigate it.

And if any listeners are from the South Asian community and they're worried about telling their parents because of similar concerns that you had, you know, regarding talking about karma and saying, you know, this is your fault, for example, what would you, how would you recommend they approach talking to people about it?

I think just be really factual about it and be really honest. And I think it comes to uh educating them, you know, is one thing, listening and hearing what they're saying, but actually going back and it's a piece of education. It's a piece of, they don't know any different, you know, they know what they've been, you know, what their kind of cultural values were, or the talk they had when they were growing up. I find that a lot, know, when my family came from India, my dad came in the early 70s and they've worked so hard and they have a really strong work ethic. They don't complain, they just, they work hard, they graft and I'm really lucky so I come from that kind of background. So they don't know much about it and they don't ask questions. So I've been, like with my dad and my mom, I've been really open about... oestrogen, progesterone, you what medication I'm on, where my porters, where my lymph nodes were taken out. And I think you've just got to take that, hear what they're saying, and then actually just override it and say, well, actually, this is actually what's happening. And this is why it's happened. And the science behind it as opposed to something I might have done in my past life.

And how, if at all, has their approach changed based on how you've been with them and how open you've been about your treatment?

Yeah. Great, really good. Open, you know, sometimes I feel like they're glazing over because I'm going on about it. But no, really good. And my mum's really, you know, she's had it. She's 75 this year. And I'm telling her, you've got to still go for a mammogram, mum. It does just because you're over 70. There's another thing that over 70 year olds don't need a mammogram. That's not true. I have a great friend of mine whose mum's 76 has just been diagnosed with breast cancer. So that's not true. So that's again, another sort of education piece. Having all these conversations. All my aunties have been for mammograms. All my cousins have been for mammograms or if they need a check, you know, just keeping them aware. yeah, talking about health, it's not just cancer, it's talking about health. How are you? And talk about menopause. You know, remember I was getting some of my aunts who are much older, I love them dearly. like, did you go to, what was menopause like for you? And they just don't talk about it. They just deal with it and kind of. get on with it. So it's just having those conversations. And I think they are more open to having those conversations.

And when you ask them about it, do they then talk about it?

Absolutely want to talk about it, but they just don't know. No one asks them the question. So they don't openly talk about it. But if you do bring that conversation up, they do. And I find my dad or the male who are a bit more don't want to talk about stuff. But my aunt and my mom are totally open for it.

It's all changing with the younger generations as well, of course.

Yes.

Yes.

I've got, got my dad, I've got 42 first cousins, cousins and they're all amazing. But, again, just, you know, I was 47 there, you know, it's just, and cancer, breast cancer just happened to young, young, young women. And we know that. And um so doing my monthly check your breasts or just being out there on my @hellobreastcancer account, which they're all following. I think it's just a reminder that it doesn't discriminate against age or who you are and let's not be naive and just be health aware. Yeah.

We've talked a little bit about after diagnosis and talking to people and being open about it, but what barriers do people in your community face to diagnosis in the first place?

well, go attending mammograms or if they had a symptom, or not actually not knowing the symptoms. I would say the main one was what are the symptoms? Do they know what the symptoms are? Do they know how to check? So I think that would be the first thing, understanding what the symptoms are and how to check. And I don't know how, unless they're giving a leaflet or a nurse talks them through it after the age of 50 is when especially the older generation, they wouldn't know. Whereas I think hopefully the younger generation are a little bit more aware and are checking and making sure their mums and aunts are checking too.

And what would you say to someone who's reluctant to go for a mammogram?

oh I just you'd be naive not to go. Don't be scared. There's nothing to be scared about. And you're lucky that you have the opportunity of having a mammogram. Yeah. So so take that. And yeah, yeah.

How can we empower women to take control of our breast health?

I think it's education, I think informing and educating them and and not making it scary. think, you know, whenever I say to friends of mine, know, or we're checking or check, it's about knowing your normal. And it's not always about finding something which is sinister. And I think that's how you take control of everything and just being aware.

What would you say to anyone in the South Asian community who's been diagnosed with breast cancer and is struggling to talk to their family?

I would see if they can find a community elsewhere, find another community, find some support elsewhere to help them talk to their community, to their family. think we put a lot of pressure on, my family were amazing and I love them and I've got amazing friends but where I found a lot of connection was from other women that were going through it and that I found that helpful and finding someone that's going through it similarly to give you some confidence or some help to talk to your parents or your family about it. uh There are so many helplines with Breast Cancer Now, Macmillan. There's so many. That's the other thing about going through something like a cancer diagnosis, breast cancer, that the charities that are out there are amazing. There's so many nurses, so many lovely, kind people. So if you can't immediately go to your family, there are definitely other resources and sources of, you know, sort of help out there. Then hopefully um you know, break it down, step by step for them to understand where you're coming from.
And hopefully that kind of opens up conversation.

So you've built a community on Instagram through your account, hellobreastcancer , as you just said, what sorts of issues and challenges face your community specifically?

think the fear. So if you're thinking someone's following my account to start with, and they've just been diagnosed, I think it's the uncertainty and fear of not knowing what's going to happen. And I think That's where an account like mine and there many other women that are sharing their stories amazingly that reach out. And I think that that that really helps that community of women that are just being diagnosed. And then I think it's the ones like me two years ago just finished diagnosed finished treatment and then you're feeling totally broken and you've done and you're out of the system. Now what? You're feeling scared and you're not yourself. Your whole body's changed. And there's that element of it too. And I think em seeing somebody ahead of you. seeing somebody who's navigating it, who's healed, we're not all 100 % healed, but who's healing, I think that helps some women who are behind you. And I think that's the whole thing. I think for me, it's all about hope and just seeing someone ahead of you and that giving you a little bit of direction and all helping you on a rubbish day. That's why I think that my kind of account can help women, I hope.

Yes, yeah, for sure. mean, you must get positive messages to say that, right?

Yeah, I mean, it's little things like, you know, your hair, my hair. I mean, I literally shaved my hair off all of it May 2024. no, March 2024 when it was falling out. Everything, I've got my hairdresser over and I said, if I lose my hair, you're shaving it all off. And he came over after work and it was in my kitchen and my kids were there and, know, they're all, yeah, was, it was quite emotional, but he did it. That was two years ago and my hair now, mean, honestly, I sit in the car when I'm driving and I just stroke it. I forget, you know, then when I see pictures of myself with no hair and that was only two years ago and I know so many women that are there now, seeing where I am now, I'm hoping that will give women hope of things like your hair coming back, lost all my eyebrows, all my nails, everything. But the body's amazing and it heals, takes time, but it does heal.

Are there specific beauty standards within your community that made it even harder to lose your hair?

Yeah, yeah. mean, for an Indian woman, South Asian woman, your hair is everything, know, long hair and it's quite, it's got feminine thing. And so there was that hard part. um When people see you with no hair. you see the look on their faces, especially in my community and whatever, and they feel, you get this kind of, they feel sorry for you, like that sympathy, which is lovely, know, I mean, I think I would do the same, I don't know, but um yeah, you're like, poor you. And I get that, but there's part of me thinking, I'm okay, you know, this was my choice, actually, I shaved all of it off, that was my choice. And I took that power back. um But yeah, and then my eyebrows and my nails and everything, I had to attend an Indian wedding. uh And my hair was really short and I found that um I just didn't look like pretty because for me pretty was longer hair and all of that. So that was an adjustment for me. I don't know if anybody else really noticed it. I think it was more the pressure I put on myself in that situation. um I went to India um last year and this year, but last year I went on my own and I looked back at the photos and I had such, such short hair. And I'm like, I get taken aback by looking at that, but that's me again, more than anyone else.

But is it just, it's not normal to have short hair as a woman?
Like basically you would have long hair.

Yeah, longer. I mean, I wouldn't say for everyone, there's lots of it. Yeah, predominantly, yeah. Long, long hair.

And you mentioned lots of friends and people seeing you with no hair. So am I assuming that you chose not to wear a wig?

I was, so yeah, I didn't wear a wig very often, no. I find it really uncomfortable. And it was two years ago and it was cold till April. So was lucky that I could wear a wooly hat wherever I went or a cap. So I would wear a wooly hat, a cap. then sometimes I would just, I remember when I finished radiotherapy and then the following day we went to a friend's 60th birthday party and um I thought I'm just gonna, weren't gonna wear anything. I'm just gonna have my bald head out. I so self-conscious. I felt so self-conscious and I did it and I got in the car and just cried and cried and cried em because it was that balance again. I own this and then there's also that part of feeling really vulnerable.

Yeah, it's a vulnerability thing isn't it?

But yeah, no, I did have a wig but it was really uncomfortable.

Yeah, I was exactly the same. got... a bunch of wigs, I think when I was about to lose my hair in advance thinking, you know, this is what I'm going to want to wear. But when you start actually wearing a wig, I used to get headaches from, and this was for me, it was 14 years ago so they've probably maybe got more comfortable now. I don't know, but they're also very expensive. um But after a while, I was just like, I don't like wearing this and I'm wearing it for other people. So why don't I just do what's most comfortable for me and not wear a wig. And I think the hardest thing is either A, taking off the wig in people's company, because you feel like you've taken your clothes off, basically. You feel like you're going naked. But the other thing was, I think, walking into the room for the first time with no hair and people's reactions. But once you've got past that, you can, it just feels okay, I would say.

Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, and everybody say, you look great with, you know, you've got a small head, you look, I would look awful if I had no hair. I'm like, well, I don't think you would, I think you'd look fine.

Yeah.

Oh, you look amazing. I wouldn't look like that. I'm like, you know, you would because you, that'd be you. But then I look back at some of my hair when it was, you know, just growing back and I had a couple of funky hairstyles and I did enjoy that phase a little bit. then, you know, but I'm glad I got it back.

When you were diagnosed, your kids were 17, 15 and 11. What was your approach to breaking the news to them?

Yeah, that one. I think that to me was the hardest thing. Yeah, really hard. Because when I got told I was breast cancer, my first immediate thought was, but I can't, I've got children and they need me this year. So that was the hardest, but you I had a week in between where I didn't know they did a biopsy on the tumour and um I had to wait a week for the results. Now I know my breast cancer, my breast sat of surgeon knew it was cancer from that day, but I waited that whole week. And in that week we didn't tell the children. um But as soon as I found out, we told them and I'll never forget their faces. We wanted to be honest with them from the very beginning. And um we basically told them the facts. You know, I had breast cancer. was early. It was treatable. Mom's going to be fine. It's going to be a bit rubbish. And I'm going to be fine. And at this stage, I didn't know I needed chemotherapy. So, but their first question was, you going to lose your hair?
And I said, no, because I'm not having chemotherapy. I've been told I won't be needing the chemotherapy. we just, took, we didn't tell, didn't tell them too much. They, told them as they needed to know. And as, and to be fair, I didn't know that much, be honest. You know, there were so many appointments after that. the mammograms and the another ultrasound and another biopsy for this or all this kind of stuff. So we just took it step by step, always very open. And I remember my first two, my eldest and my youngest one were really quiet, cried. And I think they kind of, they were dealing with it, but my middle one didn't say very much and he was actually fine. And I said to him, you know, went into his room and said, you all right with what's going on? And he said, well, you've told me you're going to be fine. So unless you tell me otherwise. So they literally took up our word, and I'm glad. We're really close, and we're even closer now. So yeah, they're good, they're good.

And how did you find parenting teenagers specifically during treatment?

I think I was, I'm saying lucky, yeah, they were nearly 18 and 16. Because they just got on with stuff. you know, remember my elder saying to me because when I was going through chemotherapy, he would be the one that would pick me off the sofa, take me upstairs, put my electric blanket on, get me into bed. And I remember him saying to me once, Mom, I know it's rubbish, but look, we're older and we can look after ourselves. You don't have to worry about us. least you can just focus on you. So they kind of have a reversal. They I think doing their exams and revising because I felt so rubbish and I couldn't nag them. think they just got on with it and they, you know what, they smashed it.

Probably quite liked it.

Yeah, they smashed it. They, you know, they got to the, he got to the university, wanted to do, the A-levels, the GCSEs he needed. And so they, I think they just kind of worked. And my youngest one, my daughter, who was only 11, I was really worried about her. Um, but she was also, I think because she had two older brothers, I think she just... saw them get on with life and she just followed their lead. Now if she was the eldest, I think it would have been harder for her. We just watched a lot of TV together on the sofa. Not in your bedroom. No, not on my bedroom. I did not use that bed. I have TVs in the attic. We don't even use it.

And given the taboos in your parents' generation when it comes to talking about and thinking about cancer, how has that made you approach talking about it to your kids differently?

Yeah, mean, it's just really, really open. We talked about, you know, we've had conversations about men getting breast cancer as well as uh women, obviously, and telling the boys about that and actually being really open with it, being open with health outside of cancer as well. Anything, being aware, knowing you're normal. So I'm definitely far more, we're quite an open family anyway, talking about lots of stuff. My daughter last year went through a really, really horrible case of appendicitis. We ended up in hospital for six nights with her. And that was a big learning with me parenting her through appendicitis because, I felt, you you look back and go, Oh, I should have picked up on science earlier. Why didn't I pick that up? Because we got, know, so you're always learning about these health um situations. But I think the most important thing I say to the kids is if you're unsure, just get it checked out. You know, we just get it checked out or tell me and we just, so we just keep talking about what's, you know, what's good for us. And they are at that age where, especially the boys. where they're into their fitness, so they eat better than I do, think. They their protein and they do this and they, you know, so they're on it.

And do you think this idea of cancer being caused by karma stops with you?

That won't be something that they'll think of when anyone they know gets diagnosed? I don't think, no. I wouldn't utter those words. Brilliant. But you you say that, but I, even though I know it's not true, because I've been built up, I've built up, brought up in that. in that thought process, there's definitely 10 % of me when I got diagnosed thinking, what have I done something wrong? Am I a bad person? What have I done? You do, and there's that shame, that guilt, or is it me? Have I done something from that calm side? Which is not great. And then you get something like cancer in the South Asian community. It's disease, it's shame, people don't talk about it. So there's so many emotions that you feel. Forget the diagnosis itself that you put on yourself because of cultural taboos or the way you've been brought up. I know, yeah, you do put that upon yourself and it's not easy to navigate that as well as then navigating the uncertainty of a cancer diagnosis and going through that.

How have you fought back against feelings of shame and guilt?

Rationalising it in my head, that is not. I journaled a lot when I was going through chemotherapy, a lot. Yeah, just it's almost a bit kind of reframing a lot of thoughts um and and being educated and being in that breast cancer community, knowing that this does happen, knowing the facts and breast cancer now get their stats out about, what's happening. And this is this is happening. I went to a really good event last week of food and cancer with Trek stock and they were talking about, you know, the causes of. what people think cause cancer and is it our food, it's our environment. There's so much, it's so big that there is not one cause and I'm learning that myself. yeah, I mean, to them think it's karma or it's trauma I've held. That's the other thing. Someone said, you've been through something really traumatic and it's it's manifesting. And then I'm thinking, what trauma have I gone through? You know, thinking, what did I go through as a child? Did I go through something? Has my childhood brought this on? So everybody has these different opinions, but you've just got to bring it back to, it is what it is. You'll never know. I remember saying to my breast surgeon, do you know when the tumour started? when did it begin?

Wouldn't it be amazing to know?

And he went, what, do you want to know its birthday? And I'm like, yeah. He went, you're never gonna know that. So yeah, how long has it been in me? When did it start? You have all those questions when you get to diagnosed, but I don't think we'll ever know, so.

Have you ever read the book Hamnet?

Yes, I've seen the film.

Yeah. So I don't think this happens in the film, but I only recently read the book after the film came out and I, the, explains the journey of the plague that came to London after starting with a fly or a mosquito or something in a different country. I've totally butchered that because I can't remember exactly how it is explained in the book. But it's explained in such a good way that you know the starting point and the journey of this parasite that travels and travels and travels and grows and grows and then comes into something that kills so many people. And it makes me think of the journey of cancer. And if you could think that one day there was this trigger that made this thing grow in your body, it would be so fascinating to know. maybe we'll get there one day. But in the meantime, you search for answers and you say, it? the alcohol that I drank in my twenties or is it the ultra processed foods that I ate or was it this stressful moment that happened to me? But when you talk about rationalising for me, I rationalise, well, everyone I know has had a traumatic event. Everyone I know has had a stressful time. Everyone I know has drunk alcohol or eaten ultra processed foods and not all of them got cancer. So that's not the reason why I got cancer and someone else didn't, for example.

Its those guilt, those feelings of why and now after two years on, am I eating the right fees? I, you know, I might have a glass of champagne when I my fifth, my fifth, celebrating my fifth day, then feeling guilty.
Yeah. I, I, I, I find it so hard of knowing what's right and what's wrong and overthinking it. And then waking up in the middle of the night thinking, Oh my God, it's going to come back. And literally just tapping myself thinking, can I feel anything? Literally. four in the morning. And I go through phases like that. If I've had a, you know, a drink or been up late, I don't know.

Yeah, I totally recognise that. Yeah, if I've, yeah, if I feel like I've burning the candle a little bit, or even if I've just had one glass of alcohol, because I mostly don't drink. But if I have one thing in the next day, I have a migraine or something, I'll think, okay, well, you know, I've weakened my body and yeah. there's so much guilt and blame and shame in cancer. But you're doing an amazing job at fighting back against it and teaching people that it's not our fault.

It's all about balance, it? then, yeah, we're going to that Trek Stock event last week. It was all about balance and sometimes giving yourself a hard time about having that one drink or a donut because it's sugar. you're causing more stress in your body by doing that. Actually just have it and be done with it and really enjoy it than feeling guilty about it because that's actually causing your body more stress. I like that.

Yeah and also the enjoyment and this sometimes the stress relief that comes from sitting down at the end of a long day and having that piece of cake or whatever it is is really important to you as well. Let's talk about menopause. So you after your treatment, had your ovaries removed and that put you into a surgical menopause. Tell us about the side effects that you've had, the effects of going through the menopause quite quickly versus a normal slow menopause.

I know I was, it's a tricky one. It's not a tricky one. It is actually quite a hard one. So when I, when I got diagnosed, obviously I had my chemo after my second cycle of my chemotherapy, my period stopped and I didn't actually know that was going to be the last one I'd ever have. February 2024 and I was never attached them but I did feel a little bit like, oh, they've gone. um And then so that was on what chemically induced menopause. Then I started the Zolodex. So I think through chemotherapy, I started getting some of the aches and pains but because you're going through chemotherapy, you don't know what's chemo related and what's menopause related, right?
And then started Zolodex. And again, I wasn't too bad. uh I had a few hot flushes. But the biggest thing for me was em I think, depression or really low mood. I would say it's the big thing. I started taking Zolodex and it was so painful. And I had a really good conversation with my oncologist about continuing with Zolodex for five years or having a nephorectomy. And he was very supportive and supported me in having that. So I decided to have it done in October 2024. having gone through chemotherapy, all of that, then to then have a nephorectomy, maybe done a bit too much in one year and had my ovaries removed. uh And then it did hit in, in, in that joint pain came on, but more than anything, it was low mood.

Yeah.

I think that was my biggest thing. And I'd also gained a lot of weight. So, you know, gaining weight, I didn't recognise myself, didn't have all my hair. So you're in that real, it was a real hard, hard time. Um, but then I, yeah, some acupuncture, I've been doing acupuncture, carried on my strength training, try to do what I can. um And um I'm kind of navigating it.

Yeah, it's a chemically induced low mood, but you have on top of that, the period of when you finish active treatment of breast cancer, you have a natural low mood. It's very, very common to feel very down and depressed after finishing active treatment because you're like, what next? What if it comes back?
How do I get back into normal life? This massive things just happened to me and it's often only when you finish your treatment that you start processing all that. So if you have your ovaries removed or if you're on Zoladex at the same time and you're being plunged into this chemical low mood, then it's very natural that you would feel terrible.

Yeah, I remember finishing chemo, radiotherapy. It was after chemotherapy, I had 15 rounds of radiotherapy, which took me to the end of June. And then July, we went to Turkey with the family, the five of us. And obviously my hair was very, very, very short. I'd gained the kind of chemo weight. And I remember we had this room and we had to go down the stairs and I think my Achilles and my joints hurt so much. couldn't, it was excruciating to go down the stairs. And I think that was just at the time I didn't know what it was. And I was trying so hard to be normal because I'd finished treatment, but I was so far from it. And I think I pretty much cried every day on that holiday at some point. Just didn't, yeah, that low mood post post treatment.

And what are you, what makes you feel better? What do you, what do you do now that helps you get around it?

Walking every day. think walking is just the easiest thing for me. I have a dog, little cocker spaniel, so I walk her every day. And I do lots of strength training. That really helps me. And in terms of managing my hormones, which I don't really, you know, not that I have many of them, acupuncture has definitely been the thing that I've been... has helped me get me out of that. I saw an acupuncturist and for me she just said, oh my gosh, you are totally depleted. All your chi energy was all gone. My adrenals were everything, of kidney energy, everything. And I just did a little session, a few sessions with her for six months. And she just topped me up, topped me up. And that was all post-chemo, post everything, post-ephorectomy. And that I feel, I don't know if it's a placebo effect, but I feel like it's really helped me.

You still do in the acupuncture and do you have it all over your body? How often do you have it? I'm really fascinated by acupuncture.

I do it once a month. Weirdly, even though I don't have ovaries or have oestrogen, I feel like, and I remember I felt like I was still going through a cycle.

Totally.

Yeah.

Yeah. Same.

Do you get that? So I would go through that dip before my period and I feel really irritable and really teary and once then get that energy again. And so I now go once a month to keep that in check. And it does. have it all over, all over. Yeah, it's brilliant. I can't record if you find a good recommendation. Absolutely brilliant. And I think and that's the other thing just going back. It was this time last year. I had that low mood again and I went to see my GP. I was given antidepressants, which is nothing wrong with having antidepressants or anything. And I thought I need something to help me. This is before I started acupuncture. I saw my oncologist, I spoke to my oncologist and he said, look, I know you Pretti, You're really positive. you've got through this, you're going to be fine. You can try the antidepressants or just let's talk this through. At the same time, I found out about this acupuncturist. So I didn't take the antidepressants and I went down the acupuncture route and it's helped me so much.

Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, that's really, really great. Yeah. I have I throw everything at it. So I have the antidepressants and the acupuncture. I did a NHS. My hospital offered me a certain amount of sessions of acupuncture that they did. I think they put 20 needles in all over the body and then they teach you self-needling, which you just do in your feet, just four needles. And I do that twice a week and have done for about the past three years. And it's really hard to know because I started it after a big surgery and it's really hard to know what has helped what because, know, I've got multiple medications and then recovering from a surgery you automatically have. a little bit less pain, but the idea of the acupuncture is to help with hot flushes, to help with the mood, to help with pain, joint pain and that kind of thing. So I think it might be time to step it up and maybe get someone else doing some more acupuncture.

If you can. think it's something like that. So reflexology, think is really good as well. I've had both and I really like reflexology, but acupuncture, don't know, just has worked for me and it's helping me with my low mood. I mean, still, don't get me wrong, I still go. up and down, but I feel a little bit more balanced.

Yeah. And what about, what about food? How do you, what's your approach to eating around?

Yeah. I mean, just, think I was generally fairly healthy anyway. So I still, you know, know how important protein is and fibre is and have my, my, my, you know, I'm saying to my breast surgeon, I was like, why me? Why did I get breast cancer? And he said, look, you could be eating your goji berries and your, your walnuts or, and your whatever. We just don't know why. So I've just carried on eating as I do try and cook from scratch. I eat meat, eat chicken and fish, I don't eat beef. Yeah, generally eat healthy. I have the old Ollie and stein cinnamon bun, which is delicious. It's my favourite. When they leave those little bits in the canter and I keep going back and eating more. They're nice.

Well, we happen to be recording this. podcast very close to an Ollie and stein bakery so you could pop there afterwards. You are still celebrating your 50th birthday after all. One of Breast Cancer Now's goals is making sure people who've had a primary breast cancer diagnosis feel empowered to know the signs and symptoms of secondary or metastatic breast cancer.
What's your approach to life post breast cancer and how do you take care of yourself?

Well eating well when I can, well I do. Exercise. is my big thing. think that's my biggest thing actually. I actually really enjoy exercise. We were talking about it earlier. I love strength training. I used to run a lot. I can't run because I've injured my knees. But I do love and enjoy exercise. It's not a chore for me. That's the main thing. But in terms of talking about secondary breast cancer, have got, I've got, I don't know, I do know the symptoms, but I don't have a leaflet there. And I should actually have a leaflet there. And I've been knowing it, but in terms of looking after myself, trying to sleep well, eat well, but most importantly for me is exercise.

Perfect. Do you have any tips for em people like me who, so I love cardio, but I do find strength training a little bit of a chore and I've recently found out that I need to take care more of my bone health. So I'm at the start of my strength training journey, but you love it. So do you have any tips?

I think keep it short and sweet. You don't have to do like an hour session and, you know, really don't worry about the duration. think find a few exercises that you enjoy. Don't have to do big weights. I start body weight. But that achy feeling you get the next day after doing a strength session, I think is really nice because you feel like you've worked your muscles. And I think getting an achy feeling after a run is different. But the achy feeling and that's what I like knowing that I've worked. And then when you see a little bit of definition. and you see progress because you do actually can see progress quite quickly. It makes you go, okay, you know, but I think start small. Don't do it for a long time. Just do 20 minutes. I mentioned earlier, if I'm really tired, I just do a 20 minute set. That's it. And that 20 minutes goes so quickly. And then you feel really, really happy then, Chuffed, you've done it.

Yeah. You feel like you can enjoy your pastry afterwards or your donut.

And speaking of walking, in September you're taking on an amazing physical challenge by trekking the Great Wall of China for Coppafeel. How are you feeling about that one?

Oh, really daunting. Really daunting. I was due to go last year, so I signed up and I got placed last year and I was meant to go to the Sahara. But then last, this time last year, I injured both, partially tore both my ACLs, which is a bit of a, well, it was a pain. Um, so I've been deferred to this year. I'm really excited. It's way out of my comfort zone. Um, and I've really got to start up in my training, but, I'm just focusing on strength, thinking my quads because I haven't done a lot of walking because of my knees. So I am working on my, my, my, strength of my quads and stuff, but I've got to get some, some miles in, in the walking. I bought my walking boots yesterday. Brilliant.

And you're raising both money and awareness for. breast cancer in young people and the importance of chest checking.

Totally. mean, again, you know, go back to I've got my daughter's, you know, 14. I've got nieces and lots of, you know, young cousins. And I think, again, that's what I love about Coppafeel. It's all about the younger generation. I think it's so important. And hence why all my friends got daughters. There's so many.

And your sons as well, of course.

And my sons. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I think I love, again, another amazing charity. So I'm really, I'm really excited.

Brilliant.
And you modelled on the catwalk in Breast Cancer Now's the show in 2025 and that's where we met. What was it like doing that two years after your diagnosis?

It was such a fantastic experience. was really good to be actually chosen to be a model. I was really chuffed to be asked to be a model. I shared my story. I remember when Ellie phoned me and said, you're one of the chosen models. I'm like, are you sure? You definitely want me? So yeah, and it was a really lovely experience. A great crowd of people, lovely, the models have been amazing. We're all still on a WhatsApp group now and I made some very good friends from that. Met you lovely people. But to be, to have that opportunity to be made to feel so special, the whole show is just a wonderful experience. And I'd say I'd do it again, but. It's been daunting, but it was really good fun. Loved it. Loved it. I'd like to have my hair and makeup done again.

Yeah, I think we met when you were in the makeup chair, didn't we?

Yes, yes, you chatted to me. He was great. Jaz, he was my makeup guy and he was brilliant. Yeah, he was really good.

You are one of breast cancer now's voices. What does that entail?

Voices sharing, sharing my experience and raising awareness. attending any events. I've done a few bits and pieces for Breast Cancer Now and it's been wonderful. I think we talked about this earlier about sharing and being in that breast cancer community. For me, I find it quite therapeutic. I feel safe in that space and um if it can help and if I can represent the South Asian community by sharing my story and it helps one person then it's a nice feeling.

Speaking of which, not on this episode, but I've heard you mentioned previously that you didn't know the word for breast in Gujarati.

Yes.

Because it's not talked about. What support is there in our hospitals for people who don't speak English fluently?

um I know, and I've seen lots of breast cancer leaflets that are translated into Gujarati, into Hindi and all of that. um I don't think there is much... support. guess it it depends on where you live. Like if you're in an area where there are a lot more South Asian people, there will be you'll find nurses might I have an aunt my one of my aunts who goes into hospitals and is a translator in Wales. So there are there are volunteers that go and help but I'm not sure how available that is.

Hasit made you go to learn more terminology and Gujarati?

I'm fairly good. It's just some of the words. My husband laughs because when I'm speaking to my mum and dad in Gujarati, he will know what we're talking about because the odd supermarket or the word that I don't know pops in. So you can almost follow the conversation. I don't know all the words, but I'm fairly okay. Yeah.

Yeah. get you. You're good.

I was in Argentina. I was living in Argentina when I first found my lump. Yeah. And I didn't know the word for lump. in Spanish and I remember having to ask somebody it so that I could try and get the right appointment.

Yeah, maybe I should do a bit more learning.

Is there anything you know now that you wish you'd known before your diagnosis?

I didn't know how many women had breast cancer at a young age. I mean, I was 47 and that's actually not really that young. So I think that that I... is uh important, but also um chemotherapy and how that is for every individual women, what chemotherapy entails. had no idea, even when I sharing stuff about what chemotherapy was, and I'd show my port and the equipment, so many of my friends and family had no idea of what it was and how it got into the bloodstream and things like that. So I think there's a lot of, I think it's that education piece again about cancer, about treatment. And I guess if you don't have it and it's not in your family, why would you know about it?

Yeah. So I didn't know what a port was and it's looking out here.

Yeah. I mean, yes, there's, I think once you, I didn't really go to the hospital or doctors for much. I was very lucky to the age of 47. was fairly healthy. Nothing really, you know, you know, had my babies and all that kind of stuff. But after that, oh, I've, you know, had the number of appointments and what I've that the scans and the checks and everything, it's just a whole different world. Whole different world.

Yeah, I was very similar. Barely ever went to, never been in hospital for anything apart from to be born. And then suddenly I've got breast cancer, I'm in hospital a lot.

A lot, exactly, yeah. It's intense. And it's very invasive. Yeah. But then, I don't know about you, but the nurses and the support and the hospital, that my oncologist, they're all lovely. So you go there and you actually feel really safe as well. you think, oh, okay. It's okay. It's okay.

I have to say, I think you were talking before about Zolodex being really painful. That's the injection that you have in your belly to shut down your ovaries. And you eventually decided to have your ovaries removed. I still have Zolodex and I have it, I had it yesterday. I have it once a month, but you know what? This is the weirdest thing, but I actually enjoy. I have it at my GP. and I have a nurse and it's usually the same nurse at my local GP. So it's a 10 minute walk. I go and I enjoy the little five minute chat I get with the nurse every month and it's become a sort of ritual. And the one I had yesterday, she did it so fast, I barely even felt it. So it doesn't have to be a dreaded thing.

No, no. So I go back to get my blood done every three months because I'm on ribocyclib. um To pick the ribocyclib, you know, every three months I go back in and... I really love, I remember hugging the nurses, like, hi, how are you? Oh my gosh, your hair looks really good. And it's just that kind of, like that chat and that catch up with, they're all so lovely. Yeah. It's so lovely.

So to finish with the question we ask everyone on the podcast, what's the one thing you'd like people to take away from this episode?

I think to have hope, you know, going through, if you've been diagnosed or going through it or just going through it, to have that hope and have the faith. that day by day things do get a little bit easier and a bit better. um I think, you know, if you can, what I found really valuable was community and connection with people, which helped. And I know it's sometimes not easy to reach out to people, but it's worth it. And um I also learned, if from this, know, if people can take anything away, showing vulnerability isn't a weakness. It's actually very, I think I feel it's really powerful and the amount of kindness that you receive when you share vulnerability is amazing and that actually gives you strength too.

So true. Yeah, totally agree.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, and I've, I've learned that and, and I feel that the more I do that and not because just to get, get kindness for the sake of it, but when you really feel that that vulnerability is good to share because there's always somebody else that's just felt it. or being through it, always going through it so they feel seen and so you feel less alone. uh But yeah, community and connection is really important. And then, yeah, hopefully my experience has given me a lot of purpose. I never thought I'd be doing what I'm doing right now. Chatting to you here, having gone through cancer, I'm not saying I wanted to go through cancer to be here and do this, but to turn it around and to have something. something that gives me a huge purpose. m I really am quite passionate about raising awareness and speaking and sharing and I hope it helps.

And speaking of, well, I mean, it definitely does help. You're doing an amazing job. So thank you for all that you're doing.
Speaking of community, how can people find you?

Well, on Instagram, my handle is @hellobreastcancer. m Yeah, I set that up and I found out I needed chemotherapy. I'm going to go and just share and rather than dread breast cancer, I'm going to say, Hello. Here you are. Let's, let's, let's do something with this.

Amazing, Pretti. Thank you so much for everything you've shared with us. It's been a real joy.

Oh, thank you. I've really enjoyed it. Nice to have a chat.

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