Copy of Podcast 08/07/26 - Tom Sleigh & Simon Gartshore
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Simon Gartshore: [00:00:00] welcome to Kanda's, latest edition of Better Places. I'm Simon Gartshore, Deputy Managing Director at Kanda Consulting, and today we're once again delighted to be joined by Tom Slade, the Chairman of the City and City of London Corporations Planning and Transportation Committee at, I think what we all recognize, another crucial juncture for the city.

Simon Gartshore: So welcome, Tom. as Harold Wilson famously said, "A week's a long time in politics." and that's never been more true than last week in the Square Mile, particularly regarding the progress of your-- of the city's much-vaunted city plan, which obviously we appreciate great stores being put by in setting future direction for investment in the Square Mile.

Simon Gartshore: So last time we, we met, there was obviously natural confidence that with the hearings and consultation complete, the new city plan would be progressing to the Planning and Transportation Committee and then the Court of Common Council for adoption before the summer. and then obviously, uh, the Minister of [00:01:00] State at the Ministry for Housing, Communities and Local Government, Matthew Pennycook, has intervened, requesting the city reopen the hearing and consider some alternatives to balancing heritage and growth, including alternative third-party submissions.

Simon Gartshore: So I can imagine, Tom, just to start, that the city is very frustrated by this turn of event, particularly at this late s-stage. and so when did you first receive notification that MHCLG might be having some second thoughts, and what do you understand has prompted the minister's intervention, particularly at this late stage?

Tom Sleigh: Thank you, Simon. Yeah, and you summarize, kind of where we've got to so far very well. We first heard when everyone heard, which was the letter from MHCLG, which was, publicly available, which is why kind of everyone found out about it about the same time. And look, I don't wanna, try to second-guess motivations because there weren't any in the letter, and we can only take Whitehall at face [00:02:00] value.

Tom Sleigh: and so I guess therefore I'm interested in what it actually means in practice. and what it means in practice is, I mean, um, in the short term, relatively straightforward, which is a delay in the adoption of, of our plan. The risk, I think, is that that delay could be quite open-ended. So we still haven't, what are we now, a week later, been given a, a date for a, for a, for a hearing or, or series of hearings.

Tom Sleigh: We haven't been told if additional information will be required, which would require, you know, potentially commissioning complex work, which would take time. there's been no kind of target for when this thing should be wrapped up. So that's injected genuine uncertainty into the, I would say, central London market for, for particularly commercial real estate.

Tom Sleigh: You probably saw, however, that this has kind of now escalated, and our planned [00:03:00] suspension has now knocked on to Tower Hamlets. And so the inspections which were due to take place this week of the Tower Hamlets plan, well, they're now postponed, and I don't think they have a date either. So suddenly we're in this very unfortunate position of having Two local development plans, so growth plans.

Tom Sleigh: One for the City of London, which is £110 billion of economic out-output every year. One for Tower Hamlets, which has some really important work to do in, in, in housing, but also has Canary Wharf, and Canary Wharf I think is, I don't know, it's well over ten billion a year of economic output, and again, you know, 150,000 jobs to our 675,000 jobs.

Tom Sleigh: So in a stroke, with one letter, you've suddenly suspended these two kind of crucially important to the economy, crucially important growth plans. and so we were, I think, rightfully very frustrated when we got the news, and are still [00:04:00] very concerned at the open-endedness of this a-and frankly don't think they need to happen again.

Tom Sleigh: They... We think the process was heard, it was run through fully a year ago. All these arguments were heard. It was settled, and it's just, unnecessary to have to reopen it.

Simon Gartshore: Uh, and, and has-- is the city having dialogue or obviously sharing notes and, and comparing notes with Tower Hamlets, obviously, given the, the, the impact o-on them as well?

Tom Sleigh: Yes. I mean, you probably saw that the Mayor of Tower Hamlets put a statement out re-responding to some press interest on that. we have good relations with all of our neighbors, and absolutely our, our teams are comparing notes o-on this, which is why we understand the scale of the problem- Mm. -and the scale of the challenge that they face and we face as a result of this.

Simon Gartshore: And obviously we've discussed previously that you've worked extremely hard as the... personally and, the corporation to build relations with the heritage sector. Um, so where do you feel this intervation-- intervention leaves that [00:05:00] relationship between the, the, the city and the, and the sector particularly?

Tom Sleigh: Yeah. Look, we, we work really closely across a range of City of London functions with, with the heritage, the heritage sector at, at, at pretty much every level. and we have good relations. We, we kind of co-launched a, with, Historic England, we co-launched a, uh, supplementary plan document on heritage a couple of weeks ago.

Tom Sleigh: so I don't think this is about us v heritage at all, and I haven't really heard it framed like that. This really is simply kind of growth versus delay. and to be more precise, growth versus unnecessary delay.

Simon Gartshore: and does the city have any views? Obviously, I assume... I appreciate they've dealt with and discussed through the hearing as to the alternative jelly molds, including from heritage sector bodies which were put forward that have been stated in the, in the letter.

Simon Gartshore: Is there any-- Have any particular views on those at, at the moment or implications if they were ultimately the preferred option-

Tom Sleigh: Yeah ...

Simon Gartshore: put forward?

Tom Sleigh: Yeah. So we, we [00:06:00] have talked about this, and this did all come up in the hearing, which again is rather the point. Like this is all done and I, and I'm concerned that if the hearings go ahead this year, it'll be the same people with the same spreadsheets in the same room.

Simon Gartshore: Yeah.

Tom Sleigh: Anyway, so yeah, we did of course look at it. But just, just to kind of take a step back, our jelly mold is the expression of height contours across the Square Mile where we think you can build big and where you can't build big, and it's a kind of a guideline for that. and that is a function of a variety of heritage sight lines and restrictions, particularly regarding St. Paul's but also regarding the Tower of London. so it's already massively shaped by heritage, which is great. I mean, that's a London thing. That works. A-and we figured out where you can inevitably build big. then so the letter we received said, there are altern-- there is particularly one alternative concept around trimming back the cluster of towers, that could be built according to our jelly mold, jelly mold.

Tom Sleigh: So trimming back the cluster of towers that could be built on the eastern fringe of the city. And the net reduction of that plan versus [00:07:00] our plan is, is actually relatively low. the net reduction is just a few percent. The problem is that few... First of all, a few percent of a very large number is still a large number indeed, right?

Tom Sleigh: But secondly, that two percent would almost entirely, because it's all about the tower, be entirely focused on a very narrow strip at the east of the city, and it would be far more than two percent of a small number of sites. Let's say ten to fifteen sites. And they would receive such a dramatic reduction that they'd become non-viable.

Tom Sleigh: So really, the alternative scheme, unfortunately, the net effect of that in kind of practical terms is to sterilize a strip of land on the eastern side of the most productive Square Mile in Britain, possibly the most productive Square Mile on the planet, which makes absolutely no sense if you're interested in, you know, trying to generate growth, uh, and economic output and jobs.

Simon Gartshore: Understand that sort of, that, that, [00:08:00] that sort of particular area where a huge amount obviously would be focused. So, I guess at, at this moment, given you've touched on some of the uncertainty as well, what do you feel the intervention means for that confidence we've talked about to invest in the, in the Square Mile?

Simon Gartshore: And I guess, what would be your message to, developers who are already investing, bringing forward schemes, particularly in some of those areas where you've, you've touched on, that are based on what you felt or, or what was felt to be the emerging jelly mold that was expected as part of the city plan

Tom Sleigh: So, I mean, I can talk to what I've experienced since, we heard about this decision.

Tom Sleigh: I mean, and I've had lots of phone calls from both developers but also international investors. And let's remember, particularly international investors can choose to deploy their capital pretty much anywhere. and, and one of the major, factors in the decisions they make i- is, is risk. And delay is risk, but also uncertainty is risk obviously.

Tom Sleigh: and this, [00:09:00] this is just added risk, and people are asking that question, "What does this mean?" my advice to those who are say, in a pre-application process or thinking about entering into one is we're still open for business. We're still open for business. We still have this, award-winning planning team who are hyper-responsive.

Tom Sleigh: We're a pro-growth planning authority. We get things done fast. don't be nervous because of this. Come and talk to us. I have to say, as annoying and as frustrating as this is for us because it's unnecessary and because of the uncertainty it's creating, I'm nonetheless absolutely confident that our team will go into those hearings with all the evidence that they've compiled over the years and will make a brilliant case, and I'm confident that we'll come out with the same result as before.

Tom Sleigh: I can't guarantee that, but that's my view.

Simon Gartshore: And obviously in the meantime, where does that balance sit? Because I appreciate there's an existing adopted city plan- Yeah ... at the moment, which [00:10:00] obviously w- is guiding a huge amount, or has guided investment for a long time. and where will yourself and your offices be looking in terms of where to put most of the, the weight-

Tom Sleigh: Yeah

Simon Gartshore: between the existing adopted plan and the incoming plan?

Tom Sleigh: Yeah. And this is kind of the magic sauce in all of this. So twenty fifteen is our last, is the date of our last local plan. and over the last best part of a decade, we've been writing City Plan twenty forty. And ever since we formally voted for it a few years ago, it's already now, being taken into material consideration in our planning, system.

Tom Sleigh: And that essentially took more and more weight every day that went by. But that was partly in anticipation of it being adopted. Mm-hmm. I think we need to now just do the work on whether the weighting needs to shift again slightly. I suspect not, and the reason for that is the letter that we received from Whitehall was very clear that the only issue they had was this very particular strip o- [00:11:00] on the eastern side of the cluster.

Tom Sleigh: Ev- every other element of the plan they didn't have an issue with, so essentially was sound. so there is, incredibly high probability that whatever happens with that part of the cluster, all the rest of the plan will, will be adopted in due course. The problem is just the timing of it. So I think it's probably still roughly weighted the same as it was three weeks ago.

Simon Gartshore: Great. and lastly, obviously you've touched on timing is really, really important to look to resolve this issue. and look, I understand that no indication of timing or timings for reopening the hearings have, have been given. so I mean, in terms of internally, is there any feeling as to what timescale you're, you're working to?

Simon Gartshore: Is there any precedent that you've looked at in terms of, timescales for reopening the, these hearings but, uh, and, are colleagues fully mobilized and ready to go?

Tom Sleigh: Yes. We're, we're mobilized and we're ready to go. we haven't received notification yet of any dates or timelines. So I guess to [00:12:00] whoever has their hands on, on the levers of these things, I, I would say our, our position is the sooner this can happen, the better, and that would be weeks and not months.

Tom Sleigh: Yeah. If it has to drift past, say, much after the summer recess into Q4, I think you do start having an investor confidence issue. So we urge whoever's in kind of in charge or responsible for setting these timeframes to pay consideration to that.

Simon Gartshore: and so the big picture message, just to finish, is City is still here.

Simon Gartshore: It's still open for investments, and if you've got ideas or schemes to come and talk to the, to the planning team, and you'll do your best to find your way through it.

Tom Sleigh: I'll go one better, which is that we just looked at the planning application pipeline, and once again, we've had a record-breaking month.

Tom Sleigh: Mm-hmm.

Simon Gartshore: Yeah.

Tom Sleigh: So this year is gonna be a fantastic year for applications coming into the city. we're getting through them speedily, thoroughly. we have a record amount of construction on site. We're getting things done, which is why [00:13:00] it's so frustrating to have this delay forced upon us unnecessarily.

Tom Sleigh: So yeah, we're open for business.

Simon Gartshore: Brilliant. thank you once again, Tom, for your time. Insightful as ever, and obviously we wish you and officers all the best in resolving this eleventh hour imbroglio and finding a, a way forward to keep securing that confidence and investment in the Square Mile.

Simon Gartshore: Thank

Tom Sleigh: you.

Tom Sleigh: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Cheers.

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