Anyway, Steve Feamster. Correct. Okay. Well, thanks for coming in today. You're with Sanitary Welding. You come here from Detroit. Yep. Tell me, well, thank you for coming, and tell me what Sanitary Welding is. Sanitary Welding is welding in a fashion that's hygienic and cleanable and wipeable for food grade and pharmaceutical use. Okay, say that to me. You basically are welding stainless steel, which is a clean steel. We use it a lot in food processing beverages. So you're talking about places where they make food, places where they make things. Where they make anything that could be consumed or a topical or even pet food, all of these things that we don't think about. And I mean, things that just need to be clean and pure. And I've wondered this, which is, does that metal also, as you clean it, like as you use a factory and things get dirty, is just the finish on it makes it easier to clean as well? Yes, it's able to be cleaned is actually a key piece. Like you could have a clean, you know, steel tube for a time being until you ran water through it and then it was empty and then it would fill with rust. With the stainless tubes, you can passivate or acid rinse, and just like a stainless steel fork in your kitchen, you can reuse it, and it's clean each time. Got it. So welding up stainless steel is a different deal than welding up carbon steel. Yes, it's a bit more finicky. Once it gets past like 350 degrees, you then destroy its chromium layer. which has to be repaired with passivation or an acid rinse, which is kind of, in essence, the sanitary welding. Okay. So what are the types of jobs? You guys are doing stuff right now. What are you guys working on right now? Mostly food and beverage, but co-packing plants, water filtration, really any... in the food and beverage and pharmaceutical realm we're trying to get into spool building in the shop so any size tube with any size fitting that's stainless you could order and ship to your site to install yourself without having your own welder yes trying to get to more of a modular way of doing things yes and so you can have sort of the comfort of your own shop have all the stuff you need there and you can send it off to them and they install. Better quality product and lower cost than the customer because we don't have to travel to their particular job site to do it. Yeah. The thing that gets screwy about that is when they'd be willing to pay for it. Right. That's always the tricky thing. Yeah, because they're like, yeah, you might have delivered, but we're not going to install it for six months. Right. So we don't know when it's going to work or not. We're not going to know for a while. Right. Well, it's pressure tested and there's... You know, all things that we can do to at least document that to prevent any issues once it's in the customer's hands. Yeah, that's always sort of that gray area of like... The handoff. Yeah, the handoff, exactly. So sanitary welding, you guys, you said co-packer, which would be like a third party that makes something for another party. So if you're like... you're making, I don't know, lawn chairs or something, you're the company, you're the brand, but you actually have it made by somebody else. Correct. That's the contract manufacturing. You know, most things that we purchase on a regular basis, there's always a specialty company that can make it. And some make it so well that others want to put their name on it. Yeah. Okay. So you're helping them build out. So I'm like behind the scenes. I don't, you know, I help build the machines that make the products. Got it. Kind of like how stuff is made. Kind of like how stuff is made. Yeah, which we were just both admiring the greatness of that show. Okay, so let's wind it back a little bit. You're here from Detroit. Are you from Detroit? I am. Okay. So tell me about how you, I don't know, you can wind it back as far as you want. How do you get, what's the journey look like to get to sanitary welding? So, you know, it. really starts with being a creative, you know, kid and thinking outside the box and, you know, adding value. My dad couldn't fix much, you know, no offense to him, but he had hammer and a duct tape and that got him to where he was, but I could pick up from them pretty quick. So where he left off, a lot of people have a situation where their parents are really good. They kind of miss that opportunity because it's not handed down. It's just taken away from them. Yes. So my parents, you know, believed in me young, and I was, you know, redoing my parents' bathroom and, you know, learning tile. And, you know, my mom would let me go in the tree and build in the treehouse all day, hammering with whatever free wood I could go smuggle from someone building the house or throwing out. Is that smuggling, is that the same thing as stealing? It's a kinder way of asking forgiveness rather than permission. Yeah, you didn't need that, did you? No, I mean, I appreciate what you did there. I mean, you had a treehouse to build. You know, they appreciated me. They just, you know, give me a few pieces. That's one of the best reasons a person could have. Right. I was transparent about my needs. Yeah, you were, what did they say, repurposing? You were upcycling? say yeah it was going to the trash and my parents there was at my cottage a garbage barge that you'd have to bring all the garbage to at the end of the weekend and they would not want to send me there because i would go and i would come back with more than they would send me with wrong direction i get i get that actually the uh okay so you were you were more than tinkering at a young age building things and uh or sort of sounding it out yourself yeah i was making it work with what i had and um enjoying doing it and trying to have fun you know like taping a boat prop to a weed whacker and just is that something that occurred oh yeah how'd it go it not very well but i got down the canal a little bit enough to realize that that didn't work so okay just a standard like toro steel, whatever type of weed whacker? Garbage barge weed whacker, man. And I figured out that it runs and, you know, the end still spins, all the things I needed. I mean, I got free boat motors that I would just try to fix forever without the right education and just, you know, figure out what takes a motor to run. Start wrenching on them. Yeah. Spark plug, gas, or air. And then, you know, it comes down to three and it's going to be one of them. It's going to be one of them. And if it were only that simple, right? Right. It's just determination. It was that simple until they started doing, like, you know, all the fuel injected and, you know, when it was simply a carburetor. Right. And I guess I'm now getting to the point where I can say I'm older enough to all of those old engines were what I had available for free. Yeah. No, those were Ð and that's why they worked so well, by the way. Like an old two-stroke. They would just it would just bang forever. Right. And there's people like me that saw me, you know, and, you know. God rest his soul, Captain Bud, but he gave me some engines and would just leave them out, you know, after he knew, you know. So it was like those kind of experiences that were kind of a joy of growing up with just getting something to run and then taking all my friends on the boat and seeing how far we can go until it breaks down. Yeah. What was your best resurrection? I mean. 1958 Johnson. Wow. It was old burgundy red. One time it had a seizure on the back of the boat when we were all in it, and it almost fell off the back of the boat. It was hanging on by the steering cables. Oh, shit. So we had to pull it back overboard. I got a group of five friends. We had to get towed in by a little dinghy. How many horsepower was that? I want to say 18. They were like a weird number. Right. Well, I guess they set up to become a weird number because they back into it after it's made. Okay, I'm not sure. They make the engine, and then they test it. Okay, and they give you the real output. I guess that's an 18-horsepower engine. I don't know how you Ð does anyone set out to make an 18? Yeah, don't quote me on that. I'm not sure what it was. It was like a 20 Ð no more than 25. And it had like Ð those engines of that era had like almost Cadillac-style. That sweet shell that folded in half the front ways. Oh, right. And they had pressure tanks, a little bit different. With the gas that fed them rather than like the bulb. It was a little bit different. So how did that work? The pressure came from the pump itself. It was a two-way gas line. So it like pressurized the tank and then forced the gas into the engine. So they weren't vented. They weren't vented. Interesting. Well, I guess there's a reason they're vented now. Right. They probably had some issues. Yeah. That gas tank that's building PSI over there. Don't worry about that. It's in the water. We're good. It's in the water. So how did the prop on the weed whacker go? That's a lot of weight at the end of that thing. Yeah, it was very violent and shook all over the place. Had to be done, though. I mean, yeah, right? You had a prop on the weed whacker. These things. I had a boat with no engine. Like, I had all these free things that I was just trying to make something work. I just wanted to go down the canal, you know, with some type of speed. That's a fair ask. Right? What kind of boat was it? It was an old boat that was also given to me by someone else that basically had Ð they drilled out all the rivets on the bottom of the boat and put stainless bolts in trying to fix it. Terrible idea. Wow, that creates different hydrodynamics. I bet, and it leaks like a sieve. Does it, yeah. It never really Ð it sunk a few times. It did. More of a sinker than a floater. More of a sinker. You come up to the dock and you just got four ropes going into the water. I had a boat garage at that time, so I'd actually have to hoist it enough for the week when I was gone just to make sure it didn't sink. It's like when you're putting a wood boat in the water. Yeah. If you don't want to soak properly. It'll sneak through. Or you forget to hook up the pump while it's soaking. Or put the plug in the back. That's a big deal. I've done that before. You have? I mean, just it falls out. I came back and it wasn't in. Who knows? Maybe it was sabotage. It sounds like sabotage to me. I mean, I know you got that checklist you're going down, so it's clearly sabotage. So you were building along the way. How old are we? I mean, under 10. I was... You know, given tools as a kid, you know, my mom wouldn't let me have power tools until I was like 14. I remember her telling me that was the rule. So you'd go somewhere else to get them? I would just borrow or use or, you know, whatever. But I had enough tools to be dangerous. My dad's, you know, drill or whatever I could find to get things running. I remember like the first time, like everything, everyone has this experience when you first start messing around with tools. And you're using a drill, and you're like, oh, these things aren't fucking around. Oh, it's got some torque on it. Yeah. And it was like he had the drill he had. He had a drill press. But he also would take the drill out and, like, use it as a drill. Yeah. And so I did the same thing. The thing was insanely powerful. You know, you're using, like, a spade bit or something where it hooks a bunch, and that thing kicks. The cord wraps around your wrist. Yeah. And you're like, okay, this is not a joke. Yeah. I got lucky. I didn't just totally mess myself up right now. Yep. Cut myself with the angle grinder. Did you get through those tendons? I did, the big one. And so I had a really good doctor that said they just tied them together like a rope. Jesus, when was that? This was in 2009. You're lucky that didn't kill you. I was the blackest blood out of my wrist. I was up on a boom lift. I thought it was over. Jesus, that's intense. Yeah. So I tried to kind of get out of welding a little bit after that. I know we're jumping ahead of my story here a little bit. Yeah, we'll get there. But glad you're here with us today. Right. So safety is very big to me and my team. Yeah. That's grisly. Yeah. What happened there? Well, since we're here, though, what happened? It was an angle grinder. I was cutting it. inch and a half stainless line for a product line for a pouching machine at the five-hour energy co-packing plant. So, you know, just trying to get it done. I was trying to protect the equipment below me, and I, you know, bit the dust on that. And did you, like, skip off the pipe? It stuck and pinched the blade, and I had, you know, whatever welder had at that time. you know, four and a half inch angle grinder with a six inch cutoff wheel on it. And it has no guard. So it just, and I had short gloves on. Recipe for disaster. Jesus. And were you up on a lift? I had to self-operate to get myself down. Luckily, it didn't hit my artery. It just cauterized and hit my tendon. So I would do this and my tendon would actually, you know, come in and out of my arm. Seriously? I was like fine and I could get myself to the hospital. It was one of those injuries where you mess yourself up so bad, it doesn't even hurt. Or did it hurt? It was just shock. Yeah, it wasn't that painful. Yeah. The pain was later in healing from the surgery. Yeah, it's like when you look at your body and you've massively messed yourself up, it's a little startling. Adrenaline. They thought it was product on the floor because it was... Yeah, my product. Yeah, it was... It was me down there. It was orange all over. It was bad. Yeah. Well, okay, so... I'm glad we touched on that, and that's a great scar now that you're okay. So you were messing around, kind of learning about stuff, and then how did you get from, you know, you were talking about you were young, and then what else were you doing along the way that's kind of pushing you, you don't know it, but moving you towards sanitary welding? You know, my parents letting me just figure it out, and she would just... had my Uncle Jay, and my mom even told me, he told her, just let him break it, and one day he'll be able to put it back together. And she really did, and she would just give me VCRs, and I would just go to the sledgehammer and figure out how to open it until I realized a screwdriver is probably easier than a sledgehammer. And then you just learn all those. It takes a lot longer, though. It does, and it's not nearly as fun. Right. All of that stuff kind of led me to just first working with wood because that was affordable and building whatever I could out of wood. canapults and tree houses and pretty much you name it but um you know i tripped and fell into welding school in high school i knew i wanted to be in a trade school just because i struggled with my schooling so much i just had too much energy and i didn't want to read stuff i didn't care about right and i had i just had this whole thing whole life in my head that was completely separate from school yeah you weren't like like reading about King Tut wasn't that interesting I you know if it didn't directly affect me you know it's like I why does it even I need context right you know and that's what I I'd use for all of my trainings and teaching now it's like I can't even expect someone to understand unless they have context otherwise it's like memorization and it's like you know I didn't know about AI Back then. But, you know, here we are. It's like all that memorization and all those people who memorized everything, you know, it doesn't help them now. Right. Except for the ones who made the AI. Except for. Yes. It seems to have helped them. But now they don't need it either. They don't. They don't need it either. So I just never focused on memorization. I don't know. So. I actually structured my academic life around memorization because I was like, if I can remember, that means I don't have to understand it. See, it's just like we're two different worlds a little bit, but I just didn't have that ability. I just realized early that's not my strength. So I was like, all right, well, I'm just going to build things because what I can do is, and I thought everyone could do. But like after learning CAD and things, you know, I designed these 3D structures and in CAD you can explode them is what that's called to bring all the pieces into living space. Right. And I can do that in my brain with things I designed to completely disassemble them without having to do any physical work. Yeah. So you can kind of spin it in your head without, you know. And like just, yeah, try to take it apart in my brain to figure out the best way. to fix something that's how i was growing up like i had like every doorknob off every door right you know i had i remember my we had a computer and i mean it's in the 80s early 80s and my dad was gone all day and i literally disassembled this whole computer and i had organized it in parts On the floor, he came home. I was like, check this out. I'm proud of yourself. I was like, I nailed it. And he was just like, put that thing back together. You better put that back together. Just put it back together. It was really funny. I was always taking things apart. Well, I got a similar story, and my dad still never lets it go, but I used his shoelaces to make a squirrel trap. He came home looking for his boots, and he just got no shoelaces on him. I bet you're looking for your shoelaces. You might need those. Yeah, well, I found a better use for them. Come check this out. Did you ever catch the squirrel? Absolutely not. Was there ever a squirrel problem? Not really. That's when you learned, like, you know, don't focus on solving problems that don't exist. Okay, so. I had nothing better to do. When you look back, do you feel like your mom, you know, older. our previous generations, it sort of shocks me. She didn't have a rule about, okay, not until you're 14. But she probably knew you were doing, I mean, when you'd pull in with a boat with an engine on it, you know, from the 50s, he probably did some work on that. Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, I don't know what she was thinking then, but. They just were so good at not worrying about it. I know. And I mean. Part of that was due to my cottage and just kind of being at least a little bit safer and I'm not just in the city going too far in a car. Not to say you can't go pretty far in a boat, but... Yeah. Well, lakes are much deeper than streets. It's true. You need to swim. You can't just walk. Yeah, something goes wrong in the boat. There have been problems on the ocean and lakes before, but... ability, like the older generation's, their ability to not worry too much. Right. Well, a ship was not designed to stay in the harbor. True. That's true. So my mom really has, yeah, that older, I feel, perspective about being a realist. And you can't learn without tripping and falling sometimes. Yeah, I think that's right. It's totally right. I mean, there's no way. Yeah. It's literally impossible. So you're in school and you're kind of getting in. You guys have like a proper welding, learning about working with metal. School is not totally keeping your interest. It sounds like, you know, it's just your wheelhouse is more on the shop side. Yeah. So tell me about that program. And the shop schools, you know, have really been drained out of our schools. And there's so much, you know, insurance issues that they can't even have a kid use a drill anymore. And now it's backfiring. You know, now we have kids that don't know how, you know, there's degreed engineers coming out of school. They don't know how to drill a hole. Right. You know, I got my job in California and, you know, I came behind a degreed mechanical engineer. And, you know, it's just the amount of SOLIDWORKS glue that they rely on is not realistic in the real world. So, you know, it actually has to work. So that's what I've realized. I've gone the backwards way. i have a better perspective because i've actually had to do the hard work so i designed for manufacturability and it's kind of the angel angle a little bit where he is trying to bring our weapons back in a sense that we can build them with common tools instead of needing a multi -million dollar facility to build one widget right That makes sense. But winding back to your first comment, which is speaking to sort of the skills gap. Yes. Where you were in school, the shop class, were you literally learning how to weld at school? Yes. So it was a pretty good technical campus off-site that had a welding program that they started to invest into, and it was getting revamped when I was there. You know, I had the fortunate choice of, you know, all the different types of welding and just pick which one you like, you know, so. And was that your first time you'd welded? It was. And so did it just hook you? Like, you're like, I love this or? Well, what hooked me is when my welding instructor, Bob Hughes, good man, said to me, you know, because I told him I always wanted to be a carpenter. And he's like, well, if you cut the board too short. You got to throw it out. Right. After you do that with metal, you just weld it back together. Right. And like from, you know, something I didn't really touch on, but just being a young kid and doing all these creative things ends up getting me into a lot of trouble. Yeah. You know, so I was smart enough to do things which would get me into places where I was worried about the phone ringing and something I did wrong. Right. so like that to me was like you can never really make a mistake in welding you know it's always repairable and honestly it's a good like thing but um you know that really flicked a switch for me it was like okay well metal's better yeah it's stronger you know it's so easy to weld and so hard to cut and it's just like all these things that just kind of were in line you know I didn't know it but and then there's just such a need and I was picked up as an apprentice through that welding school so my senior year I was working half the day Okay. And then going to school in the morning for the welding school. What type of things were you making in that class? Whatever. Like that was... Like it was go make what you want or there were things that they were having? They would just have scrap metal that companies would donate so you could try to practice to weld. I mean, the school part of it was learning, you know, the welding knowledge, which I do think is very important so you know what you're doing and like how to use the right tools to get there. Besides that... You just got to practice. And how available was this at the school? Meaning that did everybody have to do this? No, it was pretty elective. So, you know, everyone should have to, but really not many did. And then, so you talked immediately when I asked you this question about the skills gap. So tell me what's on your mind there. Like, what do you, what do you, what's your feeling? I just, I feel, you know, these kids need a chance to work with their hands. And it's an instant value. You know, you drill a hole, you see the hole. You could put a bolt through it. Yes. It won't come apart for 20 years. Yeah. You know, and it's like we got all this stuff that's so technological and so advanced that it's like these kids think they can't make a difference. You know, we need to get back somehow to like just labor that is valued. You know, and if you could influence that, how would you go about doing that? I want to talk to kids, you know, learning by being here and talking more about my story and, you know, proving that's my first mission is to prove that I can do it. And I'm finally getting to the point where I can like look back and say, hey, look what I've done. Just me. You know, I mean, I've obviously had a lot of people that helped me along here, but my determination alone has built. this picture well the reason they helped you is because you kept going i have a vision yeah and there are people that if you try and help them and sometimes if you're the only reason that things are still moving as the helper then maybe that person's not really that into this right you know so people helped you because they as people do because you were motivated to keep going right so You sharing your story and then so there's a skills gap. You're talking about the idea that it's not available in schools just in a general sense. I'm sure there are some that. Yeah, they're doing a lot better now than they were even 10 years ago. But what are the downstream problems? Like, say, let's say we fix the school situation right now and everybody had to go do it. What other forces are out there that are creating the skills gap in your opinion? Social media. Okay, tell me about that. Influencer, YouTube. It's kind of like the baseball and football stars, you know, the Mr. Beast. You know, my son watches it, you know. I've seen that. It's been on the room when I walk through our house. What is Mr. Beast? Is that baseball? Honestly, I support the guy. He does a lot of good things. He's just a content creator. Okay. You know, he does crazy outlandish experience and gets people to jump off a bridge to go grab a million dollars, you know. Right. So. Yes, that's what. So, meaning the competition, the. Just putting people on a pedestal too much. Right. Okay. So working with your hands stuff is not as seductive to do as going and doing the cool Mr. B stuff and getting all the recognition for that. Instant gratification of social media and all of the time it took me to learn to get to where I'm at isn't glorifying. You know what's interesting, though, is we were just talking about how stuff is made. And I know that there are people who don't care how stuff is made. And they like that show. And they're like shorts on YouTube where somebody's making something and it's hypnotic for anybody that watches it. Yeah. So, and it's just like hands doing something. And everybody, it's just like a biological reaction. People watch that and they're all just like. For sure. And I've been able to like just dabble enough to get like a couple things that kind of take off, you know. Well, meaning like. The obvious, so when you comment with, you know, there's this competition for the instant gratification, you have sort of, you know, another way of saying it is that people think that working with your hands and medals is just kind of a rusty, dusty, yesteryear thing. And this is a much cooler, more fun life to live. But interestingly, those people who watch Mr. Beast and whatever it is, You put one of those neat like CNC, like well done video, like something that's well done. Yeah. People watch that stuff and they're like, that's cool. Yeah. You know, like everything else, I don't think about it again, but like that had my attention. Definitely. And yeah, that's kind of what I was trying to say. Like I've had some content that has kind of taken off if you kind of hit it right. And what do you think the hit it right is? You know, it's just the media. There's just, there's kind of like making a good song. You know, you got to have. all the things, I'm not that content creator expert. So I just know enough that I'm not that person now. But, you know, there's a skill to it. And, you know, I'm trying to add that to me because it's a good recruiting tool, if nothing else. You know, I don't see a huge amount of customers come through Instagram, but I get a lot of love around the world. Right. And so... With the skills gap, and so you have the competition of other things to do. You have the fact that maybe schools aren't making it as available. What other things are out there that are sort of competing? It's the codes, you know, and it's like every day things, since COVID kind of helped me in a sense of sanitary welding because the standards have increased. Okay. More things now have to be cleaner. A big baby food shortage thing that happened was due to some welding stuff. Really? Yeah, it was a cleaning issue and stainless tubing issues in that Sturgis, Michigan plant. So I read some of the FDA report of that, and it's like just the context thing I keep going to. It's like, okay, well, they need help. There's not enough people who care about not just the weld, but like what goes through this line. Yeah, I think the context makes it like, why are we doing this? You know, it's like, so we get lost in like the particular thing. That's why I try to tell my guys, like, let's just step back. And I almost think of myself as a doctor more than a welder sometimes because I got to, you know, diagnose something that's wrong. If it's a new install, it's different. But if there's issues, you don't just want to go in. and fix the broken well there's a reason that weld broke you know so why and trying to fix it in a smarter way so it doesn't happen again but going to like getting people into it again I think you know part of that is like the amount of the daunting codes and like the pressure for perfection you know so I'm up against that Two. And is that driven simply by competition? I think it's mostly social media. Okay. Because it's almost like a skewed view of the world. It's kind of what's happened with my LinkedIn. It's like before that, I thought I was the only sanitary welder in the country for a minute. And then you get there and you start to get to know more. And it's like, man, there's too many of us. It's like, am I in the right business? But it's a skewed view of the world. And so I got to remember that and just add value today. Yeah. And, you know, bringing it the proper context where you're sort of saying just don't think of us as like sanitary waters or the metals industry. I want you to think about like what it's doing for you. So I do it like national security of our food industry. I'm in there to fix a weld, but better believe if I see an issue that's a safety hazard. I'm fixing it. You know, this water is feeding half the Midwest going through my lines. That's, yeah, that's got some weight to it. It does. And I don't take it lightly. And I sometimes ask why I'm in the bottom of this tank cleaning. What am I doing in here? Why am I here? But then I remember that I am. This is important to you. This is important to our country. You know, we can't. Have these companies operate like this? Yeah, it's sort of, I would say, I don't know what the percentages are right now, but our distance as citizens from infrastructure, other than bridges we drive over or whatever, we're so distanced from those things that you don't think about it. You just notice when the shelf is empty. Right, or they got a recall. They got a recall. And people generally don't say thank you when they recall things. I know. They're upset. Yeah. Yeah. And it's counterintuitive. Yeah. Well, yes and no. I mean, if you've paid for something, you kind of don't want to deal with it again. True. But, you know, you'd think the obvious example is a car. They're like, our airbags don't work or something like that. And people are like, God, I got to take it to the dealership. I'm going to put anyone in for free. I'm going to lose like two hours of Ð dealership's not always in the most convenient area or something like that. But they could have not said anything. That's the thing. And there's a moral obligation somewhere. Yeah. And it really comes down to lawyers, unfortunately. But that's where they're making a money decision at some point. But like I completely Ð myself out of that and I'm on the floor and it's like, this is not acceptable. I'm like turning the page a little bit from just the welding contractor to a compliance and safety officer. Yeah, I get that. So let me get back on thread here, which is you're at school, you're welding, and so you graduate. Yep. And where do you go from there? So I was still working at the five-hour plant for probably three to five years from there. 2014, I packed up all my bags. I just was in kind of a dead end. Okay. You know, my parents got divorced. I was still living at home. I had no plan. So I decided. to pack up and move to California. The Beverly Hillbillies, right? Right, exactly. Pack it up and go. I packed up my welder. I knew I had a welder. I knew I could get a job anywhere. Yeah. I knew that, and I did it, and I just drove. My uncle lived in Colorado. I stopped there for a little bit. He's like, don't stop here. You got to keep going. So I didn't even know where I was going to live. I was using Craigslist at the time to figure out my next roommate. I found these guys in San Diego that were looking for an entrepreneurial roommate. Mm-hmm. I've made it in there. They were really cool guys. I ended up getting a job in L.A., driving three hours back and forth for two to three months. It was like 80 hours a month. Oh, my gosh. You were living in San Diego, but you were working in L .A.? Mm-hmm. How often were you doing that drive? And I wasn't from California, so I was doing it every day. Jesus. It was crazy. But then I realized I could get a whole other part-time job in the time I was driving. But San Diego is so beautiful, too. San Diego is fabulous. And then I moved to Long Beach, which was rough. Moved to Koreatown for a year. Rough. All during this time, I worked at a company. You should write like a travel guide. Just one word. Rough. The city. Rough. Koreatown, great place to visit. Not a great place to live. Fourth floor, no elevator. Single apartment. No parking. Here's how to not do this. Just everyday struggle. But it gets better from there. Good times. And the experiences, though, in Koreatown are phenomenal. Yeah? Tell me about that. Breakroom 86. It was a... What do they call it? One of those... Secret bars, essentially. Like a speakeasy? Yeah, a speakeasy bar. You get in through the vending machine. Michael Jackson impersonator comes on the bar. I think it's closed now, but it was an amazing place. Well, nobody knows where it is. True. It's not exactly out in the open. Some good times there. Yeah, I finally got out of there and was in San Pedro for a few years. That's where I kind of made the home in L.A. until COVID happened. In L.A., you were working there up until COVID. And so what, tell me about the COVID transition, what happened there? COVID, we had, I was living in San Pedro right next to Long Beach. There was, you know, stores getting emptied and all types of things. My girl was pregnant. I was living in a house with some roommates. You know, it was just the writing was on the walls. Like, I got to figure out how to get us back to Michigan because I don't know how long COVID is going to last. Right. You know, at that time, like, they were talking National Guard. Like, you know, the sky was. I remember it was like. I remember just pacing my garage. Like, we're going to leave now. Like, we got to go down, you know. Obviously, it can't move that fast. But we ended up getting a house, buying it without even walking into it. from california in michigan yeah okay dad drove by i was like pretty good it's fine from the street so um you know that worked out it was very difficult one of the most difficult things i've ever had to do is buy the house and deal with the bank and do it from across the country and all during covid yeah so lucked out you know i got Got out of there, and in that time, I was actually working. I got a new job working for a remote company based in Portland and basically installing stainless cannabis equipment. Okay. So I've done a lot of large facility installs, and I just started flying all over the country. It was probably a year before I moved that I made the job change, and that gave me the flexibility and ability to actually move back. At this point, are you kind of... starting to get on track with like you you're settling into like i like the welding and i like are you feeling that you're on this metals track yeah i've already been so this whole time even though i had a job you're on it but did you feel like this is my home yet i so i bought sanitary welding .com in 2009 okay so that was before i even moved and like basically even working at the five-hour plant i was already you know doing any side work that i could do okay I also owned another company at the time, and it was called Organic Flame. But I built the machine that made all those products, and I poured my heart into this company that made no money for the longest time. It was all my midnight oil. Right. And I finally had to take it behind the barn and get rid of it. You did. It wasn't easy. Take it out back, huh? But what I realized was kind of along the coat backing lines. I was making products with the machine enough that other people even wanted to put their name on it. I still couldn't make enough and have help. Right. So I kept getting pushed this way. There's such a need for staying. And with my incident that happened in 2010, 2009, I wanted to get out of welding because of the safety hazards. At that place of employment, they weren't great leaders of safety and education. It was just get it done and who cares how we get there. Yeah. And that's a lot of the construction experience that I'm trying to avoid for my staff. Yeah. And that's hard to avoid, by the way. It's impossible. You know, there's still a real world out there and like what the schools. say you must follow and what has to be done on site, you got to break the chain somewhere. And I can only carry so much of the weight. Yeah, I mean, I think that just the reality is shit's got to get done. I know. And it's, you know, time and money are very important. And that's not taught in schools, you know, and that's strictly left on the burden of business owners to teach to these employees that your time means something. It's no longer at school where you show up and just do what you do and go home. Like you got to add value. Yes. And the time is, depending on which stage of a project you're in, time can become more important than money. I know. And it's particularly, typically towards the end. And I'm feeling the pressure right now. A couple clients. I just moved my full facility. I basically had to put everything on hold for two weeks, and I'm feeling the burn. Yeah, because typically the way projects go, money tends to flow faster when time becomes more scarce. Right. My whole life I had more time than money, and it's starting to flip that my time is no longer unlimited. I have kids. You know, I could burn midnight oil all I wanted before. Right. But now I can't. No, that begins to be an equation that can't get solved. And I'm getting older. Yeah, look at you. I mean, my elbow is going, you know, it's like things just like I can't work infinitely as much as my heart and my brain thinks that I can. Right. Yeah. So that's the hard part for me as an entrepreneur is, you know. turning off and like i got you know people that need a response in email and you know invoice that needs to be fixed or all the little stuff there's a it's it's endless and that's the that's and i'm at that realization point where it is endless and it's like i also i want to take not take anything for granted about being busy and being needed so that's where i have the internal conflict but It's like, you'll be here tomorrow. Your stuff's not together. That's not my fault. You know, I got to go home to my kids. I'll see you tomorrow. Well, so you were talking about it before, which is before we came in here, which is the idea of this foreverness and how it's just people just get worked and worked and worked. And you also touched on the idea of how do we create trust. I didn't, I haven't asked you to expand on that yet. So when you said that, how do you mean that in, like, what's the context of that when you talk about trust? You know, as an entrepreneur, you start out of your house. Yeah. You know, I start with all the tools my mom bought me. I've been collecting tools my whole life. And it's like this, you know, it's like the story of 10 years of success happens overnight. Yeah. It's like, I have accumulated all of this. And what I've realized is like, you could have all the skills in the world, but if I don't enjoy standing next to you, why am I doing, you know, I like to like what I do every day and show up to a place that I want to be at. Yeah. And not be miserable, you know? So it's like, and I am trying, I'm taking all of the arrows as the entrepreneur so I can make it easier. not for just everyone else, but eventually for myself so I can create the culture and world I want to be in. Right. And so, but tie trust into that. So trust is the piece. Sorry, I left that out. But then it's like, you know, I've turned my home. Now I'm fortunate enough to have a building, but I got to give these guys keys to my home slash now building. And it's, you know, it's just I want to hire people that are trusting because I got to pour a lot of knowledge in and it takes a lot of time. I'm not a corporation, you know, and, you know, it's just like all these little things that aren't ever talked about in business growth. Well, yeah, I mean, young businesses, it's about scaling you. Yeah. Is what it's about because you is the person who's starting the business. It's about how do you scale you. Because it's your idea. It's the way you think about things. Right. And so you're needing people who... Well, I've realized I can't clone myself, and I can't ask or expect anyone to work like I do. Right. And so, you know, even trying to lighten up, I am hitting limits before I expected to, no matter how hard someone says they're ready to work, you know, after 65 hours. They might not be so willing to come in chipper. They may not be. And the question is, as you're talking, is what is the reasonable expectation of, you know. Because I want to create that culture that people want to work at without, you know, doing all the things that the union does to the other guys. Well, tell me about that. Hold on. That's a bit of a comment. So like, what does that mean? And it's going to ruffle feathers a bit, but you know, the union jobs that I've been offered. every bit of my time, and now it's kind of an ironic conundrum that I'm giving every bit of my time, but it is also for a greater good, I feel, and just trying to hone that in so we can deliver things consistently on a reasonable timeline with enough staff that we all aren't working and not seeing our kids. Yeah, so, I mean, the union is something I don't know. I mean, I know what it is. I think I get it. But when you say they demand every bit of your time, you know, my experience has been with Union that they have very scheduled things, meaning that by design. But they advertise the amount of money you're going to make based on overtime. Oh, they do. You know, it's like you're going to make this, but, you know, you have no weekends and you're working 60 hours a week. And, you know, you're welcome. Yeah. And, you know, you get the health stuff. It's all the stuff, but it's like I'm just Ð I'd rather fail it myself. And, you know, unions are great for a lot of people, so don't get me wrong. But, you know, I'm trying to, you know, provide value without Ð So how do you do that? Like, let's think through that for a second, which is how do you do what you're discussing, which is, you know, part of your mission here is to not Ð Work tirelessly. I've been told by big contract guys in New York, basically, you can't. You need to use union. And if not, you need to start a sanitary welding university. Okay. Which is just you getting paid to teach? Well, just me getting a constant pipeline of fresh labor and then teaching them my ways. Mm-hmm. Because that's what the union can do for you. Okay. So you need to build some infrastructure around your thinking. Right. I just, you know, yeah, it's like that's the scalability thing. And it's like it's automation or it's training. And like being a small guy and I teach all these high value things, the big guys will come pick them from me. They can probably wave a lot more money in front of them. That's what I'm saying. It's like they have a lot more horsepower. What I'm trying to provide is the culture that they can't. We'd rather be here making less maybe, but we like the way we're living. We like the way we're living. If you need to go home because your kid's sick, there's no questions, that kind of stuff. It's like I'm a family man. Why are we here if not? Yeah. Well, that's a big question. Americans love to work hard, and I do too, but Chinese gets a new year for a month. So we just need to be realistic around the board, and we all need more help. Yeah, that's tough. The union, they've lasted the test of time at this point, you could say. 100%. And they're fabulous at knocking out massive projects. Right. No question. And I guess when they do say you can make X amount of dollars, and even if it's in the fine print that it's all going to be nights and weekends, I guess the fact does remain they can still do that. That person can still do that if they're motivated to do it. Definitely. But I think you're right that there is a... It just wasn't for me. Yeah, it just wasn't for you. And I think that there are armies of people out there that would agree with you that, you know, I like working hard, but my work-life balance is, you know, my priority more so than, you know, if you really pin me down and ask me, I would say that, yeah, it's important to me. Like, I would give it all up for my kids if it came to a point that it... it's no longer serving me yeah you know it's like we have to have that moral compass otherwise we're all going to be depressed yeah um and then you were talking about uh earlier you're talking about machines out there in the world that are getting really sophisticated i'm pivoting towards kind of now where we are in this world which is excuse me ai everywhere you know most kick-ass machines everywhere. And you have different countries that are producing these things at radically different costs. Right. And you were talking about that, how, you know, you see China, for instance, creating amazing things, and they seem to be doing it with greater fluency. They have more government support. I could say that. You mean straight up subsidizing costs? Yes. And I mean, we have a form of that here. We're just not doing enough. You know, it's like I have known some numbers in the past. I don't know enough to even say now, but their R&D budget or however they work it in China, they give a lot more to research and development than we do. And part of our thing, and I hope they're fixing it now, but it's like all these people who hold the keys to the government contracts now. It's like they need more people to help with the stuff. I'm raising my hands, and I got all this red tape to get through to get what they need when I can provide it. So that's kind of my job is like I'll ask, and I'm not afraid to be told no, and I'm transparent about who I am. But it's like there's Ð that's what's kind of the fun part about business. You know, there's all these different people who need your help. And once you get to a point, you can kind of pivot and just I'm trying to focus in on the things that I can make the biggest impact. Yeah, it's a business is fun that way. And it's the whole thing is like basically a video game level simulation with all these different obstacles and shortages. Or, you know, like between races, you know, you used to be like at arcades and stuff. You could choose if you want to get like a turbo or, you know, better suspension. And that's how you do it in these waves. Very true. We have an ability now to make something better. Where do we want to allocate that? And what are the possible gains? Will we start winning races if we get the nitro tank? And I was never like a captain on the football team, you know. And I always kind of struggled mentally with that, you know. It's like, why can't, you know, I'm tall. Why am I not a star basketball player? Right. You know, it just wasn't in my cards. But what I realized is I was just sharpening my skills the whole time and to be a business athlete. Yeah. No, I think that it takes time. And going back to your social media comments. You know, we see more often than not people at the top of their game and don't always get the story of like, you know, we're actually getting it's coming out more now that you do see the struggle. Yeah. And which is a blessing because as kids are growing up. When they just see someone at the top of their game constantly, whoever it is. It's demoralizing. It's demoralizing, and they go out and try and do something, and then they fall. They fail and give up. They fail and give up. So it's good to see more people talking about the fails along the way. It's Edison. a thousand different drives on the light bulb before he got it. Failure is what teaches you, and we just need to be more upfront with our youth that we don't know it all. What's that line from National Treasure? I always think of that. It was like, he didn't fail 10 ,000 times. He figured out 10,000 ways not to do it. Yeah. And that's huge. And you remember all those ways for everything else you do with the rest of your life. It's like not just for that one application. Well, what you remember is the real muscle memory that's being created is that shit doesn't come easy. And so you just hang in there. Rewards come to those who don't give up. Yeah. You know, if you're just going to give up, the universe isn't going to give you what you're looking for. You know, every once in a while it drops it in someone's lap, but I wouldn't plan around that. That's the thing. I could play the lottery every day, but I don't. I work. And I'm planning my way. Maybe my dad will win the lottery for me and pass it down. Well, he wouldn't burden you with all that cash, would he? He wouldn't do that to you. So let me ask you, when you look ahead, what's the plan from here? What have you got sort of? And the vision, where do you want to go? Kind of what we talked on earlier, but, you know, the 3D printing of metals is a big excitement for me, just trying to automate where I can, obviously hire as much skilled labor as I can and keep people employed. But, you know, the number one thing for me is to keep our businesses running and, you know, just trying to make quality products, you know. What are the possibilities with the metal printing? What are they doing now with that? And where are they talking about that going? I mean, printing parts that were impossible to be CNC machined. What's an example? Intricate channeled manifolds that you can't drill a straight hole through. You can't drill a curved hole with the CNC. So you can make these manifolds or heat exchangers. with intricate flow paths or very little. You're additive rather than subtracting, so you can just use less material. Right, you don't have all the shavings sitting on the floor. Yeah, and spending time. That's kind of the development stage stuff. That's all the reason that they're going to fund it big, and I'm just trying to bring that down to a little bit more practical pieces. is my goal, but I'm just kind of scratching the surface on the 3D printing, the laser welding, trying to push all along the lines of new, better, and faster ways to manufacture. Yeah, it's going to be mind-boggling what they're going to be doing. I mean, right now that stuff's intensely expensive, and only a handful are really going to have access to those. machines and that's an interesting piece of it too you know and that's why i want to be ahead of it and you know really any of my capital i just try to find those little gems like that and when i feel it it's like okay i gotta go all in you know so like the laser welder you know i didn't buy it way too long ago but probably four or five years ago you know right when they were newer and like that was sold as it would just be so much faster than taking it is But the learning curve was a lot different than I expected. It's definitely easy, but I'm just so much of a TIG welder that it was, you know, there's just some differences than the safety stuff. So it's like you just got to learn it yourself again a little bit. Forget everything you ever knew. Yeah, right? And start over. Yeah. Cool. So I know. So I've done it, though. It's like, okay, I'm just willing to be the first on the curve to figure it out. And then learn what not to do. Yeah. And hopefully eventually learn what to do and what works. Yeah. Well, it's going to be interesting to see what that does to things like skills gaps or, you know, where. Because the equipment's getting more expensive. Well, it's getting more expensive, but it's like, okay, now you can just print the thing. Yeah. Whereas that was something that took, you know, a lot of hours and a lot of know-how. That's a good point. And so it's a skills gap. Lost knowledge. Maybe. Now you could say, you know, there are other examples. We talk about this all the time where, you know, pre-AI, you know, that was somebody who did that. And you could say that's lost knowledge. You know, there are jobs that I do here that I've now fully replaced by AI. I've replaced portions of me. And, you know, lost knowledge or just kind of redistribution of effort. I don't know. Time will tell. Yeah. What it is. I'm in a lot of the automation groups. You know, it kind of irks me sometimes where they say robots aren't taking jobs. They're only helping. I don't know where I stand on that completely, but I do know that we need to compete. I would say mechanized workforces are real. Yeah. You know, it's just a real thing. And, you know, the Industrial Revolution is... 2.0. Well, so it was like if the Industrial Revolution replaced muscle strength, this replaces brains. Yeah. Like, well... What do we got left? I got to sit with that now. I got to think about that. But, okay, so how do people find you? And what is your region that you guys work in? We're based in Farmington Hills, mostly... of mouth has grown me to this point, but we do some advertising just online, Instagram at Sanitary Welding and LinkedIn at Sanitary Welding. Mostly local, but we're shipping stuff to Texas and the home of the welders, so we kind of ship everywhere. I'm about to release a new thing on the website that will give them auto... instant quotes for these stainless steel schools and trying to produce the bottleneck of me and quoting everything and making it more cost effective and removing engineering. I'm trying to be the middle between engineers and operators. Right. And so I'm trying to build tools that make those people's lives easier. Yeah. Well, you can do that. It can be done. All right. Well, Steve. Feimster with Sanitary Welding. Thank you for coming in today. I appreciate talking with you. It was fun. Thanks for having me. All right.