I'm the king.

I'm the king.

I'm the king.

Welcome to episode four sixty five of the

permaculture pimp cast where pimp stands

for permaculture is my passion.

The only pimp cast on this earth that

discusses permaculture prepared in this

practical living and sometimes even

prostitutes.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, good to be here with y'all.

Man, I'm really excited for this one.

Oh man,

it's always a good day when you can

get Jack Spierko on the program.

And we're going to come to him in

just a minute.

But hey,

before we get hopping and popping here,

y'all, tell everybody we're live.

Hit that thumbs up.

And, you know, holler if you hear me.

So, you know,

the powers that shouldn't be can go ahead

and start suppressing us like they always

do because they don't want this awesome

information getting out to folks like you.

All right.

Before we kick it in,

I want to I want to handle all

the housekeeping up front.

Sovereign Health Summit, y'all,

that's going to be October twenty seven

through the thirty first.

That's going to be out there in Harmony,

North Carolina.

We got Barbara O'Neill coming in and we

got a bunch of other awesome backup

dancers.

Tango Papa Charlie will get you five

percent off.

Also, everybody's always asking,

why do I wear these glasses?

Hey, y'all,

I was just down in El Salvador and

I was hanging out with the great Dr.

Jack Cruz.

In fact,

I spent a whole lot of time with

him.

The kind of time that people would kill

to have with this guy.

Anyway,

he's the one who made the world famous.

aware of what this blue light toxicity can

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OK,

that's going to handle on the housekeeping

up front.

And I'm not going to fool around because

I got my man Jack Spierko.

Before I go to him, though, folks,

I say this every time he comes on

the program because it's true.

He's probably going to get bashful when I

say it, because just believe it or not,

he's extremely humble.

But Jack is always the smartest guy in

the room.

and he never feels the need to ever

tell anybody i say this every single time

and you just feel smarter being in the

same space with him whether virtually or

whether checking out his podcast survival

survival podcast which by the way if i'm

not mistaken i think i was introduced to

it

all the way back in oh eight and

jack was the one that introduced me to

permaculture so um he's been at this gig

a long long time and folks i say

it all the time on this show he

is without a doubt the best podcaster in

the business one of the best educators out

there and i'm telling you everybody is

going to be the beneficiary of his wisdom

today so if i could actually unclick that

mute button okay there we are jack how

you doing my man hey man thanks for

the great introduction i'll try to live up

to half of it

Bro, you can do it with, what,

half your brain tied behind your back.

It has been a while, though.

I mean, like you said, O.A.,

it's eighteen years.

We just celebrated eighteen years of the

show in June.

You deserve every year of it, man.

And I hope you keep on doing it

because it's, I mean,

you are a dynamo in that area.

And a lot of us are so blessed

to have you out there.

Before we get hopping and popping,

I didn't tell you when we were talking

prior to this,

I wanted to tell you here.

I was down in El Salvador.

I got invited to a party near Bitcoin

Beach.

Okay.

And there were a bunch of Australian

expats there.

And a couple of them asked me, Hey,

you ever heard of you're from,

you're from the States, mate.

And I said, yeah, you know,

I have a guy named Jack Spear.

And I just said, yeah, I know him.

I said,

he's been on my show a couple of

times.

And, uh, so anyway, they, yeah,

you got fans down in El Salvador that

are expats from Australia.

How about that?

It's,

it's crazy when you hear that and think

of, you know,

how I started with a recorder in my

car.

Um,

I don't know if you know who Vin

Armani is, but he lives in Saipan now.

And he was telling me recently that he

was talking to some girl on like the

other island that's part of the North

Mariana's.

And she was like, you know, Jack Spierko.

And I'm like, how?

And I guess, you know what?

That's a moment to sit back and kind

of thank Adam Curry.

Honestly, if you think about it,

like you and I, what we do.

without Adam's work all the way back in

the early two thousands probably wouldn't

be what it is today.

Like Adam Curry is the guy that created

podcasting in the form that we have today.

It's, it's,

it's pretty crazy that you can reach the

whole world, you know,

from what we're doing now.

Yeah, that's really something.

But man,

it just blows my mind where there was

only two people they brought up when I

was down there.

One was you and the other guy.

Well, actually three.

They brought up Dr. Jack Cruz,

who's down there.

And then they also brought up Sam Tripoli.

And yeah,

so you three guys were the only ones.

I was like, yeah, man.

I mean, they were like, you know,

pretty jazzed up.

I was like, yeah, dude,

he's a buddy of mine.

And they didn't believe me, man.

I had to break out my phone.

I showed them your number in my phone.

That was crazy.

I was like, dude, I got, yeah,

here's him.

Here's Sam Tripoli.

I don't have Jack, uh, Cruz,

but I got his wife here and it

was, it kind of,

so you were an icebreaker for me down

there in El Salvador.

I think it's just a blessing.

The whole thing is, I mean,

over the years, it's, it's,

it's pretty amazing, honestly.

Before we get down to it, Jack,

you sent me some pictures the other day

of your garden down there.

I just wanted to

I wanted to give everybody a heads up.

I didn't know if that video was available

for everybody on YouTube or whether that

was surprising.

But, man, folks, if you haven't seen it,

you need to go to his YouTube channel

and check this thing out, man.

You got trombocinos the size of my arm.

I mean,

what are you doing down there before?

Because this is largely a permaculture

podcast.

What is the special thing that you've done

out there that really makes this thing

hum?

So I have to say that it was

like this year, you know,

I've been on this property for thirteen

years.

The garden you're talking about has been

in place for about six.

And, you know, when I started out,

it was right before I started doing the

bioreactor compost.

So it's had about five years of that

and it's had about three years of biochar

being added to it and cover cropping.

And those three things seem to just kind

of kick over this year.

Like the soil that was in there was

pretty dead when it was initially put into

those beds.

It's what I could get my hands on.

I don't have soil here.

I have rock and I have about four

inches of really bad dirt on top of

that rock.

And that's all I've got.

And when you say that,

people think of like digging a hole and

you're pulling rocks out.

I don't mean that.

I mean like concrete slab limestone rock

is what's under my property.

And so I just had to use the

field earth that I could get and start

improving it.

And it's done really well.

And like my bricks readings on SAP last

year were like eleven, twelve,

which is really, really good.

Yeah.

But some of my bricks readings this year

have been like fourteen.

Wow.

Which there's a lot of people out there

going, I don't get it.

You get what I'm saying.

Like when you get into that level of

bricks on the sap of a plant,

you're getting into that level of like,

you know, you,

your plants survive two to three degrees

below freezing when they're not supposed

to,

because basically you have any freeze in

the sack with a little extra sugar and

your pest problems go to almost nothing.

Like,

The one thing I was happy to see

is that the black swallowtail still ate my

fennel.

Cause I was going to be bummed if

that went away.

Like that was the one negative possibly of

that.

And, uh, but otherwise like,

it's just been a crazy year.

Like you said, I got trouble.

She knows as big as your arm.

I got trouble.

She knows how to move my leg.

Wow.

Like I've, I've never,

I've got one out there.

I meant to cut it and bring it

in here,

even though we're really not supposed to,

that's not what we're scheduled to talk

about today.

But I've got one that honestly got,

if it was on the floor,

it'd be about that tall right now.

And the neck is like that.

Like I've just never seen anything quite

like what happened this year.

I've got tomatoes out of my, you know,

and I've also, I grow those,

I can't remember the actual name of the

plant.

They market them as Indian snake bean.

If you know the plant I'm talking about,

Baker kind of made it famous.

I've grown those every year for like the

past five years,

but I only get them in like September.

And it's because they're pollinated by

moths that I think are nocturnal because

they're really tiny flower.

Bees can't get into them.

I don't know if it's just our cooler

weather this year or what,

but I've got tons of them in the

spring this year.

So it's just been a great year for

the garden.

Man, that's what I'm talking about, folks.

Like I said, go over there,

check it out.

This thing will absolutely blow your mind.

And like Jack said,

when you've got a bricks reading that

high, I mean,

you've got a bulletproof garden.

You really do.

I mean, I know it's true.

Alan Booker said that, like,

once you're there, like,

insects will just fly over your garden.

Yep.

Let's look down.

Nope, that's not for me.

It's human food, not insect food.

Yeah, but it didn't happen overnight.

Like you said, I mean,

it's been a work in progress.

You stay at it.

You know,

so many people reach out to me and

a number of others saying, well, you know,

they have two bad years of gardening and

then they just throw in the towel.

That's not what you can do.

I mean, you know, you're like you said,

you're I haven't been to your property,

but I know other people that have.

And I remember Nicholas Bertner saying,

you know, a while back, man,

he's all on rock over there.

I don't know how he's going to grow

anything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He went wrong.

Yeah.

Well, that's awesome.

Just takes time.

Yep.

So we're going to hit.

Hey, folks,

if you remember the last time Jack was

on the show,

we were I can't remember if it was

the last time or the time before.

He just written a book called The Laws

of Life, had it on here,

got through it.

And I'm telling you what, folks,

it's a quick read,

but not in a way you think in

his first version.

It's a quick read because, number one,

it's.

When you're going through it,

if you read with the tri-focus method as

I do, you read faster anyway.

But honestly,

you can just devour that book because it's

information that just sings to you.

Now,

I don't have a copy of your second

one,

but I do know what's in the chapters.

But first off, I mean,

what inspired you to write the second,

you know,

Laws of Life Part Two instead of expanding

the first?

Or is this an extension of the first?

They're kind of a series now,

if you want to think of it that

way.

So that made it pretty easy to do.

So we got one and two.

um the fact that the first book hit

bestseller list on amazon in three

categories that that that kind of made it

where i wanted to make another book but

i wasn't done yet when i originally came

up with the idea for the first book

it was actually thirty laws and when i

started putting together the outline and

thinking about writing it i'm like oh it's

gonna be an encyclopedia

Like nobody's going to want to read that

much in a single book.

So I initially went fifteen and fifteen

and then there was one law I really

wanted to get in there.

So I became sixteen and then my OCD

kicked in.

And OK,

so we'll add two to the second book.

And so it was just kind of a

logical progression in the series.

And there's other things planned after

this, though.

Laws of Life might have a series,

but the next book won't be called that.

I just felt like I had more to

say about things to help people build a

better life.

I mean,

that's what my whole show has been built

on all these years.

You know,

we do a lot with permaculture and

homesteading and regenerative ag,

but that's just a piece of what we

do.

We teach entrepreneurship.

We teach money management.

We teach lifestyle design.

And, you know,

I've been asked over the years by

mainstream publishers, I mean, big time,

like New York City publishers to write

books.

And I've always turned them down, one,

because their terms always seem very

predatory,

but they also wanted to very much typecast

what I did.

They wanted a book on survivalism.

And once we started talking about it,

it became very clear,

not my version of it,

their version of it, you know,

the city's burning and whatnot.

I'm like, that's not what I teach.

You write the book.

Like, no, I don't know.

That's not what I do.

And so when I decided to write a

book,

I've been asked by my audience for years

and years to write books as well.

Everybody kind of expected it would either

be a book on like survivalism or urban

survivalism or something like that,

or like permaculture space.

But I've been able to build everything

that I've built based on the things in

these two books.

And I had a very successful career in

business before I walked away at the age

of thirty six.

And so I had hit the absolute top

of the corporate hierarchy by the time I

was thirty six years old.

I was in the C-suite.

I was a COO of a company and

a president and board member of a holding

company that that company was in at the

same time.

And I just didn't want to do it

anymore.

And that's when I launched Survival

Podcast.

And that's when I changed my life and

went in this direction.

But it wasn't like that life didn't teach

me anything.

And I look around and the hardest

questions I ask that come into me today

are not like, what do I plant?

Or what do I store?

Or what insulation do I use in my

off-grid cabin?

My hardest questions are things like,

how do I buy my first house?

I'm twenty-eight years old and I'm working

my face into the ground and I can't

figure it out.

How am I ever going to be able

to retire?

How do I build my life to a

point where I'm comfortable having kids?

know when people start those are hard

questions to answer right you don't google

an answer to that right like it's it's

not simple and to me every one of

those questions has a different answer

like depending on who asked it like five

people could ask verbatim the same

question and you you know my favorite

answer is always it depends so the things

that it depends on like you know what's

your risk tolerance all those things fill

into this

So the whole premise of the laws of

life books is these are not my laws.

Like I kind of call them that at

times,

but it's more of like a plucky joke

type thing.

Like if you remember,

remember the movie Tom Cruise was in

cocktail from the eighties.

Right.

And the guy that was like his bartender

mentor Coghlan,

he would say like Coghlan's laws.

It's kind of like that.

Like these are other people's laws.

Some of them are very well known.

Some of them I really kind of do.

claim kind of their genesis but you know

nine out of ten of them are out

there in one form another from somebody

else they're just things over the years

that i adopted

And what I want more than anything else

is for people to have success in their

own life.

And, you know,

for people that are tuning in today,

they're like they're twenty somethings and

early thirty somethings.

These are the ones who get the maddest

at me.

I want it for you more than you

do.

That's why you get pissed off at me.

Right.

Like the last interview I gave about this

book was with Tom Woods.

And, you know,

I've had several people from his audience

reach out.

Like all I got from you was pull

you pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

And I'm like, well,

that's because that's what you're hearing.

It's not what I'm saying.

And my other question back to them has

always been, well,

but what do you want from me?

What do you want from a guy like

Billy?

What do you want from, you know,

I was on with Tom.

So what do you want from Tom?

Who do you tune into?

Do you want us to just commiserate with

you about how hard things are?

Or do you want a pathway to solutions?

And to me, that's what my books are.

They're pathway to solutions.

I'm actually developing right now two

courses,

two online courses and guidebooks for

these two books before I move on to

my next book in the series.

And as I dig through those,

the psychology and the neuroscience in

this stuff,

if you'll actually take that approach to

it, it's huge.

And I think that's the reason that people

get upset when you say certain things that

are in these books about how to handle

life and situations in life.

You're creating a mirror.

And that mirror causes them to look at

what they already know.

Because some of these laws,

people are like, well,

everybody knows that.

Yeah, but you're not living that way.

And a word that gets thrown around a

lot or a phrase that gets thrown around

a lot right now is cognitive dissonance,

right?

So everybody takes the one definition of

cognitive dissonance,

which is you have a belief and you

state your belief and somebody gives you

information counter to it and it's solid

information.

So it creates mental discomfort.

But there's a second side of cognitive

dissonance.

And that's when you are living counter to

your own beliefs and you know it,

but you won't admit it.

And it's underlying, it's underneath you.

I think that causes a lot of pain

and anxiety in younger people today.

And I wrote these as much for that

as for anything else.

I think, Jack,

I remember through the first book,

I remember going through that and I was

like, man,

and every single thing I was shaking my

head thinking, okay,

I can absolutely relate to that.

But I do find it curious,

I guess to a certain degree, I don't,

that you're getting a little bit of

pushback.

You and I are roughly the same age.

and you and i both remember the day

before there was an internet you know i

remember starting one of my first

businesses out of the army i had to

literally go door to door and hand out

flyers you know trifolds that i had to

have made to go you know advertise this

little insulation business that i started

my buddy and i we started this thing

while going through the electrical

apprenticeship at the same time and going

to college all at the same time and

we still made a successful business i

don't think it's ever been easier i mean

my wife and i just three days ago

came up with two million dollar ideas than

anybody could run with so i have a

hard time with the people out there that

are saying well i just can't do it

look y'all i'm in my mid-fifties so is

jack and i'm still out here swinging for

the fences so i don't want to hear

it

From all these people,

especially young people.

Jack,

we had a couple of apprentices out here.

Somebody asked me to bring them on.

And one of them was twenty.

The other was fresh out of high school.

We're walking up the side of this mountain

and I got a bucket in each hand

of water.

And you know how heavy that is.

And I got these two clowns behind me.

One of them shows in Velcro shoes and

a fanny pack.

And he's out here carrying some pig food

up this mountain.

And every other step, he's like, man,

this is hard.

This is hard.

This is hard.

I said, hey, kid.

You're young enough almost to be my

grandson.

I'd rather carry fifty, forty, forty,

fifty pounds of of pig feed than,

you know,

that much water times to sloshing around

in a bucket.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you're the old man.

They should have been like, hey,

we got this right.

Exactly.

But the whole time, you know,

and then so when we were all said

and done,

kind of got myself together and tell this

little as Phil Marchi.

I'm like, hey, so what do you think?

Farm life for you?

Says, I don't know, man.

I just don't feel like I can make...

And then the other kid chimes in.

Both of them are saying, and I'm like,

okay, look, kids,

here's a couple of jars of honey.

Get on the first thing smoking.

I think it lasted two hours.

They were supposed to be here eight.

I sent them on the first thing smoking

going down the road,

but I find it curious that everybody's

giving you a little bit of...

And they probably will,

even with this interview as well,

they're giving you a little bit of grief

over this when it's never been easier to

be a success, at least in my view.

There's never been more opportunity.

Some things are hard.

And I think I say that right out

of the gate in the second book,

that if you're twenty five years old to

thirty five years old today or even a

little bit younger,

you live in a world that's a conundrum.

Um.

Things because of the way we manage our

monetary system more than any other reason

on some levels are harder.

If you take a standard, get a job,

go to work, do your thing,

it will take you quite a number of

years longer to buy your first house today

than it did when you and I were

like, you know, twenty five years old.

It just it just does.

So we you and I can't sit back

and say nothing is harder than it was

when we were young.

However,

there's more opportunity than there's ever

been.

Right.

The fact that like you think about this,

like if you move to a new,

if you were a twenty five year old

kid,

you move to a new town right now.

You can start making money tomorrow.

You can deliver shit for Amazon.

You can go to Rover and dog sit

people.

You can do Uber.

You can do Uber each.

You can do DoorDash.

You can do TaskRabbit and throw sheds

together for people like I'm not saying

you're going to get rich doing it.

I'm saying just the fact that you can

land anywhere.

and begin making income the next day, bro,

you and I didn't have that.

Not that easily anyway, right?

There's ways you could do it,

but it wasn't like that.

The other thing I think has happened is,

and this is, we have to,

if we're going to poke these young people,

we also have to be honest about what's

not their fault, right?

So they have been the kind of the

magnum opus of,

of the establishment's propaganda machine,

right?

Like they tried to do it to us.

They did a pretty good job of the

generation between us and they really had

it perfected.

And it all started back with our parents,

the boomers in the seventies and late

sixties when they took over academia doing

this.

And they have convinced each generation

it's the one befores.

fault.

So it's all our fault.

Us Gen Xers who are now boomers in

the mind of the millennials and the Gen

Xers, we're all boomers, right?

We're either one of them or a boomer.

And they talk about this time when guys

like you and me, Billy,

and certainly the boomers,

we could just go buy a house on

one income and raise three kids and it

was easy.

Y'all are talking about eight years ago.

Y'all are talking about the nineteen

forties after the Second World War up

until about nineteen sixty.

A boomer,

the oldest boomer today in nineteen sixty

was fifteen years old.

How much say do you have in the

world?

when you're fifteen years old.

I'll give you the answer, zero.

You have zero say in that,

except for your own world,

you have zero say in the world.

So this fantasy they have and this

animosity they have because they can't see

how they're going to become a homeowner

about this kind of leave it to beaver

world,

That's what it was.

It was in the leave it to beaver

years that life was like that.

Your parents didn't live that way, folks,

and your grandparents didn't live that

way.

Your great grandparents did.

My parents maybe, but like Billy and I,

our grandparents,

they were young adults during that period.

And yes, it's harder, but yes,

it's easier.

And that is kind of a catch-twenty-two

that you're in.

The thing is,

what worked for them won't work for you.

But what will work for you is so

much more abundant than what they had that

was available for them.

Like you said,

multi-million dollar ideas like that.

But there's like a chapter in this book,

too.

You know what the idea is worth?

Zero without execution.

Zero without execution.

There you go.

If you can't execute and like what you

learn as you get older.

The problem isn't an idea.

It's filtering out and getting down to one

that you can commit to and fully

committing to it.

Touche, man.

Right on the money.

Now,

let's go ahead and educate some of these

people out here because there's something

in your chapter one that really just

jumped out at me right off the bat.

And I was like, boy,

I got this right and wrong all at

the same time.

And you call it do what you hate

first and do it like you love it.

Now, I got half of that equation right.

Yeah.

I always, I mean,

every single day I try to,

every day there's a systematic thing that

has to get done.

And then, you know,

I got to play freestyle and put out

fires and do all the other things like

everybody else.

But I got to say,

when I looked at that,

I had something of a eureka moment, Jack,

just like I told you in your last

book.

This is the benefit of a book, y'all.

This is what Joel Salatin talks about all

the time.

Find me one book.

where you don't walk away with at least

a hundred dollar idea out of it.

And this one is a thousand dollar idea

if you ask me.

So Jack, why don't you,

if you don't mind,

I know you don't mind getting into it,

but I got the first half of that

equation right,

but I got the other one wrong.

Break that down for us.

So the concept is,

That first of all systems have more power

than willpower ever will so you're you're

former military like me,

so you know that you bring people into

the military.

And you have to be able to put

them into situations they're going to be

very difficult you're gonna have to know

there's a minimum level of performance.

right?

So you create a system around that.

You don't bring everybody in.

Like people see, you know,

if you've never been in the military,

you see like basic training and

everybody's getting yelled at and

everything.

And I think that people get this idea

that they just yell at you until you

decide you're going to do it.

And that's not how that works.

Like there's systems of management and

operations in place and you train someone

to that level and that system.

And then the system does the majority of

the work because when Reveille goes off,

you get the fuck out of bed and

you get

to your formation on time and when you're

told to move you move so your buddy

doesn't get shot right that's the power of

systems this is not a military book i'm

just trying to like use an analogy here

so if you put a system in place

in an area where willpower is weak you

go further

And that system is we look at everything

every day that we have to do.

And we say,

what are the things that if I don't

do this,

something horrible is going to happen.

All right.

And then we look at the things like

this really does need to get done today.

And then it'd be nice if this gets

done today.

And there's your A, B and C categories.

And in each category,

your tiebreaker of what goes first is do

you want to do it?

And the thing you do not want to

do if it's an A,

like something's going to die or I'm going

to get fired,

I'm going to lose an account,

it just became one A.

And the thing that has to happen,

but you kind of want to do it,

it's two A. Now it's a system.

Now it's a system.

Once it becomes a system,

Then the system runs the show.

Now you are the orchestra, you know,

you're kind of the conductor of the

orchestra here.

You're the one that decides that.

And we were talking earlier about

pushback.

And I think one of the biggest problems

people have with the whole mindset of what

I'm trying to bring out with these books

is I'm making you your own mentor,

which is absolutely terrifying if you

think about it.

Imagine you call me up, Billy,

and you say, Jack,

I want you to be my mentor.

And I say, okay,

and then you're all happy about it.

It turns out I'm telepathic.

And every time you try to lie to

me, not only do I know you're lying,

I know exactly how you're lying.

I know how that story when you were

five years old didn't actually happen.

I know exactly what happened.

I know exactly what you were thinking when

you didn't get out of bed this morning.

Now it's kind of like,

I don't know if I really want this

dude as my mentor.

When you build systems and you put

somebody in charge as their own mentor,

the natural resistance comes from the fact

that you know you can't bullshit yourself.

Now you can,

if you just live life loosely like

everybody does,

but if you get into a tight structure

and you hold yourself to a standard,

and one of the quotes in the book

that I really love is,

the standard that you walk by is the

standard that you accept.

And that's what I've adopted in my life

because as organized as I seem when it

comes to all the crap on my farm

and all, stuff gets laying at places.

So like that became one of my things

that goes in my kind of my daily

review, my daily practice.

And, you know,

now when I walk by something slaying

there,

I just hear Dave Morrison was the guy

that said that.

And I hear that in my head and

like, damn it,

now I have to do it.

And that's what you're doing.

You're getting tied into that.

But with this idea of doing what you

hate first,

the story I tell in the book about

this,

this is an honest to God true story.

When I was really young,

it's in my early twenties,

I got my first really good sales position

in telecom.

And the way you make money in sales,

especially back then,

the internet existed,

but not the way it did today.

You couldn't just throw out lead ladders

and stuff like that, right?

You made your money in sales by cold

calling.

No one wants a cold call.

Cold call sucks.

Cold calling is for every ten calls you

make,

literally getting told to F off nine times

and probably being told nicely to F off

once.

So you got to make twenty and then

you'll get one where you get a toehold

and that'll get you to the next level

in the chain.

And then for every ten of those,

you're going to get told to F off

nine times.

So it's about thirty times of being told

to go do horrible things to yourself

before you get one that even possibly

leads somewhere.

if you don't do it the whole thing

falls apart now the problem for me in

that was i'm a systems thinker and i

like to design things and i had a

lot of experience already at actually

running jobs so i was not just a

sales guy i was a sales guy to

pull project manager in when i was putting

a bid together and say can we redesign

this save the customer money well why

would you want to do that so we

get the job

So we're the one bringing that.

So I love that.

I love sitting down with a customer.

I love negotiating.

I love closing.

I love getting into that room when I

was sitting around a conference table that

I couldn't afford,

let alone the building they were in and

talking to these people and bringing and

winning them over by sheer force of will

and logic and presentation.

I loved all that.

I hated cold calling.

But the way you got to do all

the other stuff was cold calling.

So here's the dumb, doofus thing I did.

sitting in the gym one day i'm working

out i look at myself in the mirror

i got my lifting gloves on i got

my shirt i'm all cut i'm sweating i'm

in that point of a workout where like

you're hurting but it feels good and i'm

like i'll kick anybody's ass right now i'm

like that's what you need so i went

back to my office i put a mirror

up on my wall and i would take

my dress shirt off i had to wear

to work and put a t-shirt on

And I'd stand in front of that mirror

with a headset on, tied to my phone,

plugged into a desk.

That's how long ago this is,

with my call sheet for the day.

And my first two hours every day,

I called and called.

That sounds juvenile, right?

And you get in there pretending he's

working out.

Yeah, well, in nine months,

I did two and a half million dollars

worth of sales for a company that had

never done more than four and a half

million in a year.

Wow.

Because the system was more powerful than

the world.

It's easy to say, well,

I'm going to do this.

But once you put a system over top

of the concept and then you hold yourself

to the system, everything changes.

It doesn't change overnight.

And we've been on here now for thirty

one minutes and we've covered one law.

Right.

So there's a lot more to it than

that.

But that's the mindset that I'm coming

from with what I'm trying to teach people

in these books.

That's fantastic.

You know, the next one,

there's something about that book and this

one, too, where everything,

every title of every chapter jumps off the

page to me personally.

I don't know if it's because my age

or, you know, that we folks,

if you don't know,

there's so much overlap with me and Jack.

We both grew up in Pennsylvania.

We went to the same part in the

Army.

And then, you know, do pretty much this,

you know,

a similar type of thing this day.

It's like there's a lot of overlap.

So I keep getting freaked out every time

I look at some of your titles here.

And when I went through that last book,

because I'm like, good night, man,

I see it this way.

And then I get a eureka moment and

say, oh, my goodness,

this next one applies to something that

happened just a couple of weeks ago.

And I really would like for you to

go into that a little bit more, too.

It's the next chapter.

Everyone's an expert at a few things.

Reason I'm saying this.

I was speaking at a conference down in

Alabama,

I want to say a couple of years

ago.

And I can't even begin to tell you

how many people were coming up to me

asking me, hey,

how can I make money doing this?

And they all think they got to be

on YouTube.

And I'm like, folks,

you don't realize I don't make my money

through YouTube.

They don't pay me anything.

I make my money different ways.

So I asked this one guy, I said,

what do you do?

What do you do for fun?

What do you love?

What can you do that you can monetize?

And...

He's telling me, well, you know,

I like to bang on tin and make

different things.

I'm like, okay,

you ever thought about making a shovel?

You ever thought about making,

because I got one that I bought from

Tractor Supply.

The tines on the pitchfork broke the first

day.

The shovel handle,

I got it in the back of the

truck right now, Jack.

The shovel handle,

which was supposed to be hickory, busted,

and you ain't breaking no shovel handle

made out of hickory the first day or

first week or whatever.

That one's been a month.

So anyway,

there's planned obsolescence built into

all this stuff.

So I tell this guy, hey,

you ever thought about making a broad

fork,

a specialized broad fork that actually

works?

And then you ever look into the work

of Victor Schauberger?

You ever thought about making some of this

stuff out of copper?

And he's like, wow, wow, wow.

I said, I'll tell you what,

you send me a prototype of anything you

make and I'll give it a shot.

And I'll tell you what,

if it works and it's legit,

I'll let everybody in the world know about

it.

Haven't heard a word from that guy.

Now,

that's one of I don't even know how

many people, but this guy was really,

really good.

He even had pictures of some of the

stuff he made,

but he never did anything with it.

Like you said,

ideation without execution amounts to

nothing.

Yeah,

if you're going to have ideas without

execution, we might as well, like,

my idea is a warp drive, right?

Time machine, you know?

A pill that makes your dog not shed,

right?

If the idea matters, then go there, right?

There's a chapter on that too.

But on the genius thing, right?

I was going,

I know he ain't had time to read

the whole damn book because I just sent

it to him today because I flaked out,

didn't send it to you two weeks ago

when you asked me to be on the

show like I should have.

I thought you were going to,

like so much overlap,

going to tell the exact same story from

the chapter.

But what I talk about in the chapter

where I've noticed that people are

geniuses is at conferences and prepper

gatherings and things like that.

And this is what happens.

I know you've seen this happen.

You're, you know,

especially indoors because people can hear

better.

So you're at like some conference or

whatever.

You're kind of in the back of the

room or the hallway behind it or whatever.

And, you know, you talk to somebody.

I always try to talk to everybody.

I mean,

you know that I make a real effort,

especially people that don't know me,

because that's even better because then

it's just the dude talking to you.

and i always follow like just basic

networking things to get people talking

like and people like it's hard to talk

to people at a conference who are you

where'd you come from what what what's

most interesting here right and you're

talking about them so they start talking

so you start talking to them and you

get the kind of like the him and

han and just here to learn and whatever

but then you find one thing

They know,

like your guy with metal work or whatever.

And all of a sudden,

you just start asking them questions about

that.

And see,

nobody's ever done this for them before.

And they don't know

They don't realize how smart they are

because the only people they talk to about

that are all their buddies that are like

nerds for that thing together, right?

So everybody knows a little bit about it

and then they all combine what they know

so they all learn more and they all

think they're about the same and they

think everybody knows this,

but they don't.

And you find something that they have that

knowledge and a passion for and they start

talking about it.

Really?

Well, how's that work?

Well, how's that work?

And all of a sudden you start feeling,

you don't even see it at first.

You just feel people behind you.

You get that kind of, you know,

that sense that you have that there's

somebody.

And you look and there's people and

they're listening and they're keying in on

this dude.

And so you egg him on a little

bit more and you start taking half step

backwards.

And the group coalesces.

Next thing you know,

there's just twenty people asking this

dude questions.

He's got more attention than the dude they

paid ten grand to stand at the front

of the room and talk.

And you just let it go and kind

of ease away so that people don't think

they're interrupting something.

You go find that dude later and you're

like, hey, man,

if I talk to the event organizer,

would you like to speak at this event

next year?

And they're like, oh, man,

what would I talk about?

I can't do a presentation.

You just did a presentation for forty

people in the back of the room.

Well, that wasn't a presentation.

I was just talking about what I know.

That's what a presentation.

Now,

they almost never take the opportunity

when you try to give it to them.

But when I see that happen,

I think the untapped genius in the average

person is unbelievable what's there.

And that same person,

when they're complaining about their

position in life,

will talk about their potential and talk

about how if I only had an opportunity,

but they want their opportunity kind of

presented to them in a very on-ramp

friendly way.

They want a job.

They want somebody to give them an

opportunity.

No one, folks,

is going to give you crap.

Even when it feels like they gave it

to you,

it was just because you earned it and

you didn't know it.

Like these movies where some billionaire

comes along and looks at the poor guy

in the street picking his fingernails and

goes, hey,

I'm going to give you a job selling

stocks.

That's not reality.

That's Hollywood.

It might make entertaining TV,

but you get what you take in life.

And that might sound predatory,

and I do not mean it predatory.

There are things that it's okay for you

to take, and opportunity is one of them.

Bro, I couldn't have said that any better.

You know,

I'm going to go off script a little

bit.

Well, there is no script.

I will just say this because I've seen

it in you more than once.

You know,

one thing that I always admired from you

when you would go to these events is

–

people with your notoriety usually go up

there they do the presentation and then

they're like casper the friendly ghost you

don't see him anymore i noticed and i

learned that from you and i i'd said

it to my son before i said you

notice man this dude's been up here

talking all day

on stage, and then he gets off stage,

and then you're over here talking with

people on the ground.

So, I mean,

that was one thing I've noticed from you

that I haven't seen in a whole lot

of people of your caliber.

They usually – you don't see them there,

and they just – you and Joel Salatin

are pretty much the only ones I know.

There's one more guy,

but I'm not going to mention him.

There's only three of you guys that have

ever stuck around and are proactively out

there trying to –

I've seen you do similar things just like

that.

You know, people,

I think they almost certainly knew who you

were,

but you don't make yourself disappear at

these things, man.

I always wondered how did you do that?

Because there's always that one guy that

wears you down to a nub.

How did you manage to do that?

I have some techniques I use.

The guy that wears me down to a

nub,

I always try to have somebody with me

that I can kind of give a signal

to that will somebody need you because

there is those people that you just,

you can't stop.

And, and part of that is like,

it might not even be a person's annoying

or whatever.

It's just like,

There's hundreds of people here.

Right.

If I spend eight hours with you,

then I don't get to spend like a

lot in your time.

So having that kind of backup or like

somebody will call you or somebody will

come over and, hey,

the event organizer needs you.

And we just kind of have a prearranged

signal like that.

So I'm not going to say that never

happens, but it's not that common.

It's, you know,

having once or twice at an event that's

a multi-day event.

But the other thing that I've always done

is if it's not like a hotel where

I have a room,

like when I do John's thing or whatever,

like I need a place where I can

go for ten minutes.

Like with John, I got that spot upstairs.

If I can cut out for ten minutes

and just breathe,

if my wife's not with me,

give her a call.

If my wife is with me,

spend ten minutes with her,

have a drink or a snack or something,

check some email, zone out.

I can go right back in and I

can do it all day long.

I can't do it all day long nonstop.

When I first started and I was trying

to build the notoriety that I have now,

I would do it and I'd force myself

through it.

And all it did by the end of

the day,

then I started being nasty to people and

like having to like, shut yourself,

go have a final drink, go to bed.

And what I learned over the years was

just have those strategic breaks and then

have that person that's there with you

that can, um,

shut that down because what will happen,

usually if you get somebody that's really

excited and you've done what you can to

help them and they just aren't done yet.

The last one I had was a person

that, you know,

she's going to get all this investment

money to do this thing.

And I won't explain it,

but I just thought it was a really

terrible idea.

Yeah.

and that you were going to possibly get

the money and end up in debt for

the rest of your life.

And you didn't really know what you were

doing.

And it needed to be tested in a

small modular thing first.

And that's as much as I'll explain about

it.

And she wasn't going to accept that

answer.

Well, I don't have another one, right?

You're not by force of will going to

get me to tell you,

I agree with your dumb idea, right?

So like that was a person where I

had to kind of call in the third

party to pull me out of it.

But I feel like when we go do

these things, Bill,

if all we do is show up,

throw up and leave,

then the reason people come to these

events is to meet people.

And like, I'm going to go meet so-and-so.

And the fact that even one person would

feel that way about me is already a

blessing.

And then the thought that they would show

up and they don't get to talk to

me is

That just like,

so then everything I'm about is crap at

that point if I haven't done that.

Now, if I don't know,

if you don't come up to me and

talk to me and I'm making myself

available, I can't control that.

But what I can control is making sure

I'm available to the people that spent

their money and their time to come meet

me.

And I'd throw this out for anybody that

might be listening that it's of that

level.

If you're not doing that when you go

to events, what are you doing?

What are you doing?

Right.

Like just I understand sometimes because

like Joel really is good about it.

Like you mentioned Saladin,

but I've seen him show up and leave.

But, you know,

it turned out later that like that's

because that's all he could do.

He could like I want you to come

here.

Well, I can,

but I'm going to have to come in.

You know, I'll talk.

I'll be there for a couple hours and

I have to go to this other thing

I'm already committed to.

But if he's available, he stays there.

He's a great example and actually features

in my book pretty heavily with a story

I heard him tell at a event.

No, I'm right there with you.

It's just going to be that person.

I can think of two in particular where

I'm trying, like you said,

I don't need to be going long.

I just need to be in my own

head for a little while and not speak

and give my voice a break.

But then when I say, hey,

I got to run to the bathroom and

he says, I'll go with you.

I'm like, hold on, Jack.

You got to slow down a little bit.

That has happened.

Or out in the woods, you know,

in John's place,

I think the first time there wasn't a

place to go kind of escape for a

moment or two just to kind of collect

yourself.

So I went out in the woods and

the backside of his property got way out

there where nobody could find me.

And I was like, OK, because, you know,

as well as I do,

you won't even have an opportunity to eat.

You can't even,

it's all you can do just to take

a drink off the water bottle.

I go out there and then I'm sitting

there minding my own business,

trying to eat whatever it was I was

eating.

And then next thing I hear this rustling,

oh, there you are.

I'm like, oh, good night, man.

Wasn't I clear what I was doing?

When I did,

when Diego Footer did Permaculture Voices,

the first year I did that,

I literally had a dude asking me,

can I ask you a question?

And I'm standing at a urinal.

I'm like, not while I pee, man.

I'm pretty easy,

but I'm going to set this boundary.

So the other side of that is, well,

what if you went and no one cared?

So I'm not going to complain about it.

Right.

I might make a joke about it or

whatever.

I'm not going to complain about it because

that would be bad if I went to

an event and I was a speaker at

the event.

And not only when I got there,

no one wanted to talk to me,

but when I got done talking,

nobody wanted to talk to me.

I would feel like, well,

I must not be making a difference.

So, you know,

my takeaway from this for anybody

listening,

if you're ever at a thing where I'm

at and you want to talk to me,

come talk to me,

but not while I pee.

I think that's a reasonable boundary.

Or if I tell you, hey, man,

I'll talk to you in a bit.

I got to go do something.

You know, I might be at that.

It might not have nothing to do with

you.

I might be at that moment where somebody

just wore me out and I need five

minutes.

But I'll come back around.

I will talk to you.

Yeah, folks,

I've seen it with my own two eyes.

He does it.

He's one of the few that actually do

that.

There's so many people that go to these

things, and because of their notoriety,

they get out there, do their thing,

get off the stage,

and then you don't see them again.

And I've seen it with my own two

eyes.

Jack is very accessible and one of the

most curious people you'll ever meet.

So, Jack, I do want to ask you,

between the first book and the second,

of all these –

I know there's a number of laws out

there, but for you personally,

which law would you say was the hardest

for you to come by but thoroughly learned?

So it would actually be from the first

book.

And it is to only take the advice

of people who are proven competent in the

area they're giving the advice in.

And it's not because you don't know it.

It's because especially as you're coming

up in the world,

you have all these things you want to

do.

And so when you spill out your idea

to somebody that you want to do,

and they're like,

I don't think you should do it,

or I don't think you should do it

that way, you don't want to hear that.

And if you're following that law,

which totally comes out of Richest Man in

Babylon, that's where I lifted it from.

I would say that's where I've lifted the

altered version from.

So the genesis of that law is from

my father.

And he said,

never take the advice of anybody on

anything unless they're doing better than

you.

And as I got a little older,

a little more temperance in me,

I know that's kind of egotistical because

what does that mean?

Like, you know,

are you a better podcaster than me?

Maybe not.

But if you're way better at writing and

you give me advice on writing,

I'm going to take that.

So my version became only take the advice

of people who are doing better at you

in the thing they're giving you advice on.

And then I eventually realized even that's

arrogant.

What does that mean?

If somebody's competent,

even if you are in every measurable way

succeeding beyond them,

they can still know things you don't.

In fact,

one of the reasons old businesses get

knocked off by new businesses is a new

entrepreneur grabs everything that's

available and throws everything at the

wall to see what sticks from technology

standpoint.

And the person that's been around for

eighteen years like me knows what's worked

to get me there.

And so something new comes along,

I may not pick it up.

I try not to be that person because

of the curiosity thing that you noted

earlier.

But I would say that's the hardest one

advice, not because you don't know it,

but because if you follow the law,

as soon as I identify that the person

is competent in the area they're giving

advice, now I have to listen to it.

I don't have to follow it.

But since now I've created that system

overriding me,

and let's say it's advice on business,

and I'm talking to someone who's built

multiple successful businesses.

Well,

even if I don't like what they're saying,

I need to shut up and listen.

And then they don't know what I know.

They don't know my risk tolerance.

They don't know all the other things that

I've gathered on that initiative,

but they know things and I need to

at least listen to them.

And I would also say of all the

laws of all thirty two laws,

if you learn that one,

you'll learn the other thirty one by

accident because sooner or later you're

going to run along somebody that knows

what to do there.

Right.

So finding people who are competent,

seeking their advice and their guidance

and then adapting it, not obeying it,

adapting it to your life.

Like, you know,

you don't go obey in another human unless,

you know, you have a contract with them.

Like they say,

do this job and you agree to do

it.

But when it comes to how you manage

your life, you take their advice,

you adapt it and you integrate it.

And that is,

The smarter you are,

the harder that is to fully accept because

sometimes you have to listen to people

that legitimately maybe you have a higher

IQ than them,

but they're right because they know that

one thing better than you do.

And once you develop that humility,

then you can become almost unstoppable

because I promise you,

if you're willing to be humble and seek

out someone who knows something you don't,

there's somebody that knows that thing

that's willing to talk to you.

And that advice is generally free and you

probably don't need it from somebody

that's an influencer or well-known.

All you need is someone that's proven

competent in that space.

And the other dangerous thing,

we have this thing called the halo effect.

And that's just,

I've gotten a more in the neuroscience

behind this understanding that like if,

if Billy Bond is really smart at

permaculture,

That doesn't mean that he's really smart

at programming algorithms for artificial

intelligence.

Those two things are not the same thing.

So what we tend to do in our

lives is we find people that are really

smart.

We ask them for advice about things we

actually know they don't know anything

about.

Because if they say, go for it,

then we can tell the rest of our

friends and family, hey,

Uncle Dan said to do it.

He's a genius.

But maybe Uncle Dan's an aerospace

engineer.

And maybe he's a really great one,

but you want to go into the real

estate business.

He doesn't know anything about real

estate.

So that halo effect can really hurt us.

It's not about just seeking the advice of

people who are smart,

but have competence in the area.

That's one of the most difficult things to

accept.

You know, I couldn't agree more there.

You know,

I got a doctor in my family.

He's very well known.

Highly.

He's got more degrees in a thermometer,

but has no common sense when it comes

to Jack, you know,

as well as I do.

Would you ever put is there a situation

where you would ever put layers in zone

five in a permaculture system?

no no you put the wires there right

you know you're pretty darn you seem

pretty competent as a doctor but this same

doctor was putting his his chickens in

zone five and then wondering why the

coyotes are killing them down in texas and

he's doing everything backwards so where

they live there you go it's

But it goes right back to what you

said.

I mean,

you may be an authority in this one

thing, but like you said,

you may be a walking nincompoop concerning

other things.

Let me hit you on this other chapter

before we come down to a close here.

But I really love this one.

That's why I can't wait to read the

book.

And we're going to find out from Jack

here in a moment, folks,

where you can find it.

But I love this one more,

but I'd love you to dig into it

a little bit because I know this to

be axiomatically true,

that success comes from effort,

and once it starts, it compounds.

So, I mean, this is,

I often say that a war,

you don't win a war in miles,

you win it in inches.

But there are points when you're at a

war for a while,

you can advance more than a few inches

at a time.

You might get feet.

But yeah, break that one down for us,

Jack.

Sure.

And this is great because it actually lets

me go back to that conference.

I was talking about Joel selling that.

So I was speaking at Free State,

the Free State Projects.

I can't remember what they call it now,

the winter thing they do every year.

And Joel was there speaking as well.

And he talked about how when he was

very early on in his career as a

farmer, he had just taken over the land.

their car died.

And this was like a terminal disease,

not fixing the car.

And they have no vehicle.

And Joel's a tough dude, man.

He's a really nice guy,

but he's a tough farmer, you know.

And his voice cracked a little bit as

he's telling this story.

And he's talking about how this one day,

he just doesn't know what they're going to

do.

And here comes two cars driving out to

his place.

And one's kind of an older,

beat up old Cadillac.

Guy gets out of the Cadillac,

walks up to him, hands him the keys.

says, I don't need this car anymore.

I heard you need a car.

Take the car.

And Joel's like, bro,

I don't take things for nothing.

Guy says, look, I don't need the car.

It's not worth very much.

I don't need money and I don't need

the car.

I need to buy what you're producing.

And if you can't produce it,

I can't buy it.

So this is more important to me

than the few hundred bucks I get for

this piece of crap car.

For you,

this car is how you keep doing your

business.

I won't take no for an answer.

He just turned around, walked away,

got another car and left.

He said they're holding the keys, right?

There's kind of no way to turn that

down.

And he took that, you know,

and he might not have been standing on

that stage of that day to tell that

story if that story didn't happen.

Now, ironically,

and I tell this story in the book,

too,

I ended up in a similar short-term

situation.

When I first came down here to Texas,

I threw a timing belt on six-thirty-five.

Now, you know Dallas-Fort Worth.

Six-thirty-five at rush hour?

Not the place you want that to happen.

I'm in lane two, slightly uphill grade.

No timing belt.

Car don't go.

You're a mechanic.

Fix it.

Not without a timing belt and a set

of tools.

That's not happening.

It's not going.

I start pushing this car uphill.

I got people flying by me blowing the

horn.

Wow.

I'm thinking,

what do y'all want me to do?

Break into a sprint?

I'm pushing a car by myself uphill.

Some redneck in a big-ass truck with big

push bars pulls up behind me.

Get in.

I'll push you.

Hell yeah,

I'm going to get in and he's going

to push me.

He pushes me.

He gets out.

This is about ninety three.

He's got a cell phone,

one of the bricks.

So it's probably going to cost him three

bucks for me to make a two minute

phone call at the time.

He could make a call.

So I call my buddy,

tell him where I'm at.

He said, I give him this guy leaves.

Why do you stop?

If I'd sit sat on the back of

the truck, a trunk of the car,

he wouldn't stop.

The fact that I was in motion trying

is why he stopped.

And I can tell you that in every

point in my life that someone came along

and said, here, let me help you.

I was actively doing so.

And I'd never had it happen when I

was sitting around having a pity party for

myself.

And I'm not going to say that never

happened.

In fact, this microphone right here,

Billy, I need to get rid of it.

I won't throw it away even though it's

not working right anymore.

This microphone came to me in two thousand

ten when I started recording from a studio

because the first microphone I bought

sucked.

And the guy that was an audio engineer

sent me this microphone and he said,

I want your show to be better.

Now, if I'm not doing the show,

that doesn't happen.

And I'm going to tell you that there's

so many people out there that have so

much potential.

And I hear this all the time about,

you know, no one cares, no one helps,

no one offers, whatever.

You will find help in abundance in tiny

pieces along the way when you get in

motion.

And getting in motion,

I think we've so formulated the mind of

the youth to motion is go to school,

do what the teacher says, go to work,

do what the boss says.

That's not what I'm talking about.

There's a place for that, too.

But what I'm saying about getting ahead in

life is, well, I'll put it this way.

What is the answer you'll think you get

from the average person?

And I'm not going to pick on you

here.

It could be fifty that they have this

wild thing they want in their life,

that thing they want to do,

this big dream.

And they claim there's things in the way

of it.

And you say,

tell me three things you've done this week

to further that goal.

Most of them are going to tell you

what, if they're honest?

Nothing.

Nothing.

So this thing's so all important in your

life.

And if the government wasn't there or the

man wasn't in your way or you had

more money or whatever it was,

you'd be doing this thing.

But you've done the sum total of square

root of F all this week.

So how important is it to you really?

And it might be very important to you,

but how can anybody tell?

But when you start making progress,

Two things are going to happen.

One, people are going to help you.

And then there's another law in the book.

People are going to tell you to go

to hell.

When you actually start making progress,

you're going to get pushback.

And when you get pushback,

most people then kind of get really upset

about that.

Don't.

Who's ever made a difference in the world

that didn't get pushback?

Who ever made a difference in the world,

Billy, that didn't get haters?

I leave this laundry list of people in

the book in that chapter.

And it's like people like Steve Jobs,

Mahatma Gandhi, Thomas Edison,

Nikola Tesla, Elon Musk, Henry Ford,

right?

And at the end of that list,

I'm like,

I guarantee you there's at least one name

on that list you hate.

And that proves my point.

You might not even know why you hate

him.

Gandhi's got haters.

Man's been dead since the fifties.

Right.

How much of an effect on your life

can a man that's been dead since nineteen

fifty two, I think, have not much,

but people still hate the guy.

There's in that chapter, I tell a story,

this lady,

I don't even know what her name is

or her handle.

I was on TikTok one day.

And I always like,

what are people doing that's successful?

I find this lady,

she's kind of like never really see her

face.

She's kind of see her hair.

You can tell she's probably like a forty

something soccer ball.

And she has this channel and all she

does is tumble rocks.

like courts and felt spar and tiger's eye

and stuff like that.

She puts it in a little, you know,

a little spinny thing and spins it and

ask people,

but three quarters of a million followers.

Wow.

Now,

how can you hate a nice middle-aged soccer

mom lady whose main people that follow her

are like homeschool moms and grandparents

doing stuff with their kids?

Lady has haters, bro.

She has haters.

And that's because she's making a

difference.

And this is when you talk about,

you don't understand why we get pushback

in some levels.

When you begin to make a difference and

a person sees that,

that is change and change is always

resisted.

And in some ways it's worse than like,

I'm sure you've been in on team,

you're working in the office and they hire

a new boss from outside.

Guy comes in, changes everything.

Everybody resists it.

Nobody,

even if what he does is what you

would do,

you don't like it because you kind of

found your groove and

And you learn to work that system and

now it's all being disrupted.

But that's exactly what that person is

supposed to do.

But in this instance where you got this

lady,

she's having this amazing success doing

something so simple.

The person who's bitter is going,

they don't think about it this way,

but they're really saying internally is,

well, why don't I have that?

Well,

the Chinese people that run TikTok must

have made her a success, right?

Maybe she's just really a really bubbly,

nice person who came up with a unique

niche and just kept doing something until

it worked.

And it's very hard for people to accept

that.

And so I think those two go really

well together, those two laws.

Jack,

I want to ask you one more thing

because you just opened up a whole other

can of worms in my head.

What do you say to those people out

there?

My family put the funk in dysfunctional.

So I'm asking this from that perspective.

What do you say to those people out

there on the heels of what you just

said there that

Where your biggest detractors are often

the people that are supposed to love you

most.

I don't know if you've ever been through

that, but I certainly have.

It's like, man, I'm out here, you know,

I'm the son of convicted felons.

And here I am knocking it out of

the park when, you know,

the highest expectation for me was

probably washing dishes and sing, sing.

So, um,

The fact that I'm doing something other,

it's funny the amount of hate that you'll

get.

But other people have written to me,

but what advice would you give to those

people?

Because honestly,

just because a family doesn't make them

good for you,

which means I keep my distance.

I don't go to family functions.

I don't do any of that stuff.

If you're not going,

we're not walking in the same direction.

I will limit my time with you.

But what do you say to those people

that may have, let's say,

a husband who's a detractor,

a wife that's a detractor, kids or uncles,

aunts, whatever.

What do you say to those people?

So the law in the book is actually

going to sound like it doesn't really

apply to this, but it does.

And I'm going to have to split this

into two because there's two different

ways this happens.

But the law is don't fight fair fight

to win.

And that sounds like the dirty and cheat.

And that whole chapter is on conflict

resolution.

It's probably the longest one in the book.

It probably takes thirty five minutes to

read just that chapter.

And I do go through things like, well,

what if somebody attacks you in a parking

lot?

They might get hurt really bad.

I'll just leave it at that.

But when that person is a parent,

the overbearing parent that's telling you,

hey, your job's okay for right now,

but you need more stability in your life.

And are you seeing anybody?

The classic thing.

But it's not what you were talking about.

I want to kind of break it up

because most people are dealing more with

the detrimental side

People are close to, you know, spouse,

parents, siblings, friends.

They mean well, but they're not helping.

Right.

If it's a parent, especially though,

if you say something like you always talk

to me like that or I'm grown up

now or whatever.

You've immediately disobeyed Sun Tzu and

the art of war saying, no, the time,

the place of battle, right?

Because now you've chosen your childhood

to argue with your parents over.

Good effing luck.

You're not winning that.

You have no chance.

And you've also said,

treat me like a child.

You invoked the time you were a child.

Therefore,

you've asked them to treat you like a

child.

Therefore, they're going to.

When you're in that sort of situation,

you need to conduct yourself like an

adult.

An adult doesn't say,

treat me like an adult.

Adults demand to be treated like adults by

acting like adults.

So when you respond to that parent and

say, look,

I understand what you're saying.

I know where you're coming from,

and I know it's a place of love.

And maybe you can't see it,

but I'm happy with what I'm doing right

now.

I have a plan,

and I want you to be proud of

me.

That's a hard thing to push back on

your kid with.

If one of my kids said that,

I'm like, oh, all right.

And so when I say don't fight fair,

I mean don't agree to the rules that

the other side never even agreed to.

Don't come up with this false sense of

obligation to engage in conflict that way.

Now, what you're talking about,

and this is when you were first asking

this, some of you don't know,

but apparently you do because we do have

this similarity.

my father's in a mental institution right

now.

My mother is still a drug addict and

she's in her seventies, right?

I mean,

my two sisters are complete disasters and

the rest of my family that were decent

people are all dead.

And I think there are times,

and I hate saying this because I don't

want to wish what I have or what

you have on anyone.

But the solution is I'm just not going

to do that.

I'm not.

And when people say, well,

they're still your mom or the senior dad,

Bro, I know you feel that way,

but I want you to think about the

worst people you can think of in the

world that you don't know personally,

but you know of,

like famous criminals or whatever.

And those people are all somebody's

brother, son, sister, mother, father.

And if that happens to be your familiar

relationship,

you have to stay at double arm's length.

And then you have to like,

I still try to put temperance in that.

If you can have a relationship that's not

going to drag you down,

you should do it.

But if you can't,

then you're better off without the

relationship.

And I know that sounds really hard and

really harsh.

But you get one life to live in

this continuum.

We can debate what happens after we die.

Some people believe in a simplistic

version.

Some people believe in more of a religious

version.

Some believe in reincarnation.

Some believe it's gone.

I don't care what it is.

For this path, for this pass,

you get one.

And you have to guard that and protect

that because the last law in the second

book is make the most of your dash.

And you can't make the most of your

dash trying to drag somebody along and

breathe for them and make them live the

best of their own dash.

And the big thing with that one, Billy,

is it doesn't say a really good use

of, right?

It's the most.

You need to make the most of what

the blessing you have been given as in

front of you.

That is unwritten,

and that is up to you to write

that.

And if you have people in your life

that are literally pulling you off that

ledge,

then you have to distance yourself from

them.

You can be decent to them.

You can be nice to them.

You can show up at Thanksgiving.

And if you don't eat cornbread stuffing

and mom made cornbread,

shut up and eat it.

It's one day a year, right?

You can go along and get along for

that.

But where you spend your time and how

you spend your time is so important.

And in the first book,

I talked about how somebody might have to

move across the country to change their

world.

And other people might just have to move

across the city.

But if you have people in your life

that are literally making you less than

you can be,

You need to separate from them on

somewhat.

It doesn't mean you never talk to them

again.

It doesn't mean you write them hate mail.

It doesn't mean you call the police on

them or whatever else you can come up

with or sue them or, you know,

MF them to their friends.

It just means you need space.

And it might be hard,

but I can tell you the best thing

I ever did for my life was leave

where I grew up.

Touche.

Folks, as I promised, I mean,

he's not the best in the business for

nothing.

And you got to check out the Survival

Podcast.

You got to get his books.

Speaking of which, Jack,

where does everybody go to get this latest

book?

And also, folks,

you need to get the first one.

I think you hit it out of the

park with the first one.

That one I did read.

This other one I will get around to.

Where can they get them?

So you can find everything you want to

about the books themselves and some of the

other stuff I do on this side of

the world at jackslaws.com.

Pretty easy to remember, jackslaws.com.

On the first book, just real quick,

the first book is now a second edition.

So this June,

I dropped a second edition of this book,

and it was because the second one made

me embarrassed of the first one.

It was such a better book that I

went back and not only did I fix

a lot of the technical problems that it

had, I completely changed it.

It's actually got twenty thousand more

words in it than it has.

And I added things like there are

framework formulas for every chapter that

actually walk you through the law.

There's also a chapter to still that's

like the top twenty percent of information

that came out of that chapter.

And then there's quotes and there's what I

call mental code rewrites.

So I want people to start thinking,

start thinking about your brain like

hardware.

And start thinking about everything you

tell yourself, everything you take in,

everything you read,

everything you associate with other people

of that's your software.

Right?

That's the code that works with the

hardware.

Cause your brain dude,

your brain can store so much information.

The most advanced stuff we have in a

data center right now to store the same

amount of information in your brain is

eight hundred pounds of equipment.

Eight hundred pounds to do what your three

pound brain does.

And that is only memory.

That's not processing capability.

That's nothing like that.

Your brain is like a Ferrari supercar that

you didn't get an operations manual for.

So I retrofitted these books to kind of

be like that operator's manual that you

were never given.

Because when you think back when Billy Jr.

was like, first got his driver's license,

right?

Would you have handed him the keys to

a Ferrari F-Forty?

Not at all.

No, because it would be dangerous.

Everybody's brain is more powerful than

that car.

And we're walking around and what we're

doing without this guidance,

and it doesn't have to be for me,

but somewhere you have to get this

guidance.

Your brain can be your best asset.

It can be your biggest enemy.

Every time you tell yourself you're not

good enough, you're writing code.

You're writing code into that hardware of

your brain.

You're writing processing.

And people are unaware of what they're

telling themselves.

So get a copy of both books.

And if you got the first one,

go ahead, invest in the second edition.

Stay tuned for the courses.

We'll probably have the course for the

first book out in about two weeks.

And then we'll have the other one out

by August.

Now,

where can they get a hold of the

courses?

Do they go to your website,

your regular website?

Because you have other courses as well.

And by the way, folks,

just a little hat tip.

I've talked about it before when Jack was

on talking about it before,

his one on composting and stuff.

It was basically everything I spent,

I think, between me, Michelle,

and –

William, and then going on further,

I think we spent somewhere in the

neighborhood of a fifteen thousand dollars

to give the information that he gives in

his course over there.

So you might want to look at a

bargain when you see it.

You got a number of other courses over

there, too,

for people that are interested.

So those are at home food systems,

the ones that are like

centric to permaculture and agriculture

and stuff like that.

Jack's Laws is where they'll find these

courses, jackslaws.com.

And we have our AI course for

entrepreneurs there.

And I think Tom and I just agreed

it's the first week of September.

We're going to drop another round of that

course.

We do that course in, it's a

And so we drop it on for sale

on a Monday.

It sells out that day and then we

start it on the following Monday and then

it runs five days a week.

And you can find you can pre-register for

that at JacksLaws.com.

And if you want to take that course,

the ones coming out for the books,

you can just sign up and take it.

The ones you're talking about,

you can sign up and take because of

the way we run that AI course,

Tom and I have to oversee that on

a daily basis.

We limit it to one hundred people around.

And that one's like three hundred bucks.

But the one you're talking about is like

sixty bucks.

Yeah.

And I do think that you'll learn as

much in that as you might spend in

thousands of dollars on other courses

because you

I don't know,

like just the way I do all this

stuff.

Can you charge more?

Yeah.

Can you make more money?

Yeah.

But what I want to do is help

as many people as I can.

So I try to make everything I do

relatively affordable.

And these courses from these books are

probably going to be forty, fifty bucks,

something like that.

And they're going to go into deeply into

the neuroscience behind this.

Um, and it is, they're long,

they're going to be six, sixteen laws,

sixteen weeks,

but they will transform who you are in

a very, very positive way.

Or I'm also have workbooks coming out and

those are going to be ten bucks.

You get the workbook and do it on

your own without the course.

It's up to you.

All of you people out there.

We got tons of homeschoolers that are in

this.

Look,

I can't think of a couple of better

books to put into your curriculum out

there.

It's going to pay in dividends down the

road.

I say fifteen and up, though, guys.

There's a few four-letter words in these,

just to be honest, right?

You know.

It's all good, man.

Yeah.

Well, Jack, I love it.

Okay, yeah, so we got a little bit.

There's nothing profane,

but there are some adult words.

Well, sometimes, you know,

that's necessary to make a point.

Certainly have no problem with that.

All right, y'all,

I want to thank my guests,

the great Jack Spierko from coming over

here and checking, you know,

getting us all squared away.

Look, y'all, get these books.

You're going to be glad you did.

Till next time, stay alert, stay alive.

Listen to the earth, they've got us.

The last seeds of the change.

Watch the world spin.

From the smallest sprout to the harmony

begin.

In the cycle of life,

where the magic's alive.

Turn it to the beat.

Feel the fire and thrive.

So much wisdom in the song.