>> Julia: Welcome to Things I Wish I Knew, the podcast from

Thinking Faith, a work of the Jesuits in Britain.

I'm Julia. I'm in my early 30s, and I used to live

in a Jesuit young adult community. We all live

hectic lives and often don't get time to reflect

on what's happening both to us and around us. This

podcast is meant to help you to take a moment to

stop and think about where you are, where you're

going, and where your relationship with God fits

into it all. Every week, I, meet a new guest who

tells me about something they experienced which

changed their life forever. By talking about the

things they wish they'd known, we'll explore the

idea that God is in all things. And we'll talk

about the part that faith plays in navigating

life's challenges.

Today I'm speaking to Jacqueline, who grew up in

Nigeria in a big family and is now living in the

UK and works as a Catholic life coach. In this

conversation, she speaks about how her experience

of comparison meant she was waiting for happiness.

But through her discernment and becoming a

Catholic life coach, she learned to trust God's

plan and embrace the present moment and use the

gifts that God has given her. So, Jacqueline, what

was it like growing up in a family of 14?

>> Jacqueline: Yeah, I'll say it was exciting. And, one thing I

always say is that I learned about living with all

the different types of temperaments, which was

really fun, and they were just. It was just full

of laughter. And I would say it was just an

adventure. That's what I was saying. Yes, there

were, you know, the usual ups and downs that you

find in a family, but somehow we worked together

to get through difficulty. And that's one of the

things I really love about, you know, growing up

in a large family, being able to come together to,

you know, overcome difficulty and not just feeling

alone.

>> Julia: And did you grow up as a. As a family being

Catholic?

>> Jacqueline: Yes. Yes. So I've always been Catholic. yeah. So,

you know, going to mass, saying the rosary every

day. Like, I remember my dad really emphasizing

that, like, you can't just go to bed without

saying your rosary, and. Yeah, just really, Yeah,

the Catholic faith was really a strong part of

our, upbringing. And sometimes we'll have maybe

priests visiting us, having dinner with us,

talking about the faith with us. So, yeah, it was

really, like, part of our lives.

>> Julia: And when did it feel that your faith became yours

and became personal rather than something that was

just something you did as part of your family?

>> Jacqueline: I'll Say, when I was 16, getting to, like, the end

of secondary school, I started being more

passionate about the faith. and I started praying

about my grades, started praying about just, okay,

I really want to improve in my studies. And I

could see that just being more prayerful actually

improved my grades as well. And I just. I will say

that that was a very. That was one of the points.

I just became more serious and focused and more,

you know, focused on my learning and, you know,

being a better person. And then after university

as well, I think, like, when I read the book Man's

Search for Meaning, because I studied psychology

and I read that book, and it really helped me

realize that purpose is such an important part for

human development. And, basically, Viktor Frankl,

who wrote the book, was in a concentration camp at

the time, and he was saying, like, people who were

able to survive were people who were praying and,

like, you know, driven by purpose, like, for

example, their families. And that really inspired

me. And it just made me realize, wow, purpose is

so important. And then also reading about just

mental health in general. And then I realized,

like, that most of the things that were, like,

that would make somebody have good mental health,

for example, being generous, having high ethical

standards, being somebody who can forgive easily,

these are things that you would say somebody who

is mentally healthy would have. And these are

virtues. And I just felt like, wow, the Catholic

faith has always taught us these things to be

purposeful, to be virtuous. And so for me, that

really made me realize that, wow, this faith is

also so important for me as a whole, like, for

every aspect of my life. So that was another point

where I started being more serious as well, and

just, doing more research and being more

interested in the faith, even deep in a deeper

way.

>> Julia: Yeah.

And so after you finished your degree, is that

when you moved to the uk?

>> Jacqueline: So after I finished my degree, I was exploring,

like, starting a dessert business, like an ice

cream business in Nigeria. And, one of the things

I decided to do was do a pastry course in London.

And then I came here to do this course. And it was

at that time that I met my husband, but my husband

met my siblings before he met me, because they

were all, like, part of this classic young adult

group. And I was on the group as well. On

Facebook. It was a Facebook group. And then he

added me from the group because he just liked how

I was always commenting about the face and posting

about the face, and so he added me. So when I came

for my pastry course, we actually got to spend

time together and get to know each other more. And

then we started dating and then I think two years

later we got married. And then that's when I

moved. Because I had to do all the paperwork, all

the visa, you know, every. I had to do all the

paperwork. So it was really long and tedious and

painful because we even had to live apart for a

while because I had to get the right document, all

my, you know, what I needed. So, yeah, that was

how it happened.

>> Julia: You're not a pastry chef now, so what happened?

>> Jacqueline: I'm not. Yes, I think I'm someone who likes trying

different things. You know, when people talk about

people who are multi potentialites, that you have

so many directions you can go, I think I'm

actually one of those people. So after trying that

out for a while, when I moved to the uk, I had to

find a job. And then the first thing I started

thinking about doing was working with children

because I had worked with children when I was in

Nigeria. So I started working in nurseries and

then, and then after school, clubs. And so I've

been in childcare for about 12 years now. And it's

just very interesting. And just learning about

children, their behavior, their psychology has

actually helped me with understanding adults

better and has actually helped me improve my own

relationships as well. So I've learned a lot about

relationships from children. Just how they just

form relationships so spontaneously. They just

forgive each other easily. So I've learned a lot.

I think it has actually improved my knowledge of

psychology just working with children. And a lot

of great psychologists actually learned so much

about human behavior from observing children. So

yeah, I would say so I worked with children and

then I would. I always still had that desire to m.

Still practice psychology because I just, I just

still love it. It's just something that I'm very

passionate about. And then I remember one time I

was working in a nursery and I still, I started

analyzing the handwriting of like some of the

stuff and I did it for my manager. And just

looking at her, looking at her handwriting, I

could tell her temperament. And then I was telling

her different things like, oh, you're somebody

that, you know, you're easily misunderstood and

all sorts of things. And she was saying, wow, how

did you know that? Like, you should really be

practicing psychology? Because that's so good. And

so that made me think, you know what? I really

should be doing this. And then after a while, with

discernment and I guess a healing process as well

that I went through in my life that helped me Just

focus on. Okay, yes, I really want to do

psychology, but I was more. I've always been more

interested in motivational psychology. That is

like, helping people reach their full potential

and like, just helping people. People feel

inspired and motivated to do amazing things. So

that's why I. That's why I'm a life coach. So I

did the training and everything and. Yeah, and

then I started just doing free sessions. And then

from free sessions. Now I do paid sessions and

workshops as.

>> Julia: So why do you think comparison is such a, common

struggle today?

>> Jacqueline: I think it all starts from, you know, when we're

young, we look at other people or even from

school. We're, always being compared, even from.

Our teachers are always comparing us to other

students. Our, parents compare us to our siblings.

So I think that that's where it starts from. And

the only thing is that, after a while you're

always. You're never able to appreciate your own

journey and your, like, where you are in life

because you're always trying to compare yourself

to other people. And it's not the only way to

like, to, I guess, measure, success, basically. I

think a lot of people feel that they have to

compare themselves to someone else to know how

successful they're doing. Or it's actually not the

only way. There are other ways that are, I guess,

healthier and less, I guess, less stressful as

well, as this. There's a saying that actually says

comparison is a thief of joy. So if you're always

comparing yourself to other people, you're going

to be very sad, I think. I mean, that's. That was

my experience at least, because

>> Julia: I was having a conversation with someone just in

this last week, where they were talking about

being always compared to their twin. And their

twin is like someone who's very good at art. And

because they were never as good as their twin,

they never thought they were good at, art. So

they've just decided they're not a creative person

because of that. They're more a logical person.

So. Yeah, it's interesting what you're saying

about comparison and how that can form people as

well.

>> Jacqueline: Yes, exactly.

>> Julia: So you've openly spoke about your experience of

infertility, but how did that shape the way that

you see comparison?

>> Jacqueline: Yeah, so I'll say, like, I've struggled with

infertility for almost 11 years now. And there was

a point where I was just. I was really sad. I felt

like, I just felt purposeless, really, because I

just felt like, okay, if I can't have children,

then I don't have a purpose. And, there was a

point where I think it was like over two years

where I just felt really, really in a bad place

and everything was just going down. And I was

actually comparing myself to other people around

me, my community, and actually, like, counting. So

there was a year that I actually was, like,

counting, and I knew like, 10 people that were

expecting that year. And I was just like, oh, my

gosh, like, I know 10 people expecting, like, what

is going on? And another thing I started doing

was, like, bringing myself down even more, which

is like almost a point, a way of me self

sabotaging myself, you know? And, so I'll be

talking to my friends that have children and I'll

say things like, oh, maybe they will say a

difficulty they are going through. And I'll always

go back to, oh, at least you have children. And

I'm just bringing myself down in. In a way as

well. Like. And I think I spoke to my sister about

it and she was just like, why are you doing that?

And it was only through speaking to my sister that

I realized I was doing it. I didn't even know I

was doing it. And then there was. I think there

were. It was. The. The change was just. The shift

was, like, slow, but it was through conversation,

I'll say, and just people sharing with me, really.

the first person that shared with me was someone I

worked with who waited for six years to have

children. And she was telling me that, oh, yeah,

you know, while she was waiting, people were

telling her to enjoy her life and just spend time

with her husband. And she was just like, no, she

really just wanted to have children. And now she

has about four children. And now she's just like,

oh, she can't wait for them to leave the house and

just go and just grow up, turn 18 and leave a

house. And I was like, what is going on here?

Like, and then somebody else told me about how she

waited for a while to have children as well. And

people were saying, like, go out, you know, go to

the cinema. Her husband would actually say, do you

want to go and see a movie tonight or something?

And she'd be like, oh, I'm too tired. And now

she's like, I really wish I went because now I

actually can't go because now she has quite a few

children as well. And there's somebody else told

me about her own personal experience where she has

two children, but everybody around her has lots of

children. So she wanted more children. And I was

just like, what is going on here? Like, how she

just.

>> Julia: Like.

>> Jacqueline: I was just like, at least you have.

>> Julia: Like.

>> Jacqueline: She was like, she wanted more, so she was asking

God for more. But then she had to have, a surgery.

And then she just said to God, you know what? I'm

going to stop asking you. Just keep me alive to be

able to take care of my children. And then she,

you know, had this successful surgery, and she

just said she's just grateful that she's alive to

take care of the two she has. And one other time I

saw her and I said to her, like, are you not

asking anymore? She was like, no, I'm not asking

anymore. I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just

taking care of the two I have. And to me, that was

really strange because I'd never had anyone say,

I've just accepted it. So for me, that was a

mindset shift that I had the option to accept that

maybe this is not the will of God for me now, or I

don't know the answer, basically. But what about

just accepting? And so, after a while, just

reflecting on the stories of these three women,

and I was just saying, why is it that there's

always this need for something else other than

what we already have? Why can't we just be

grateful about what we already have? So that made

me just have this sincere prayer with God where I

said to God, God, accept, your will in my life.

And the moment I said that prayer, I just had

peace, instant peace. And, from that moment, I

also had clarity as well, because it was after I

had that peace that I had the clarity to start

going into coaching, because I just felt like I

should really be doing what I really want to do,

all the nice things I want to do. And, I love

creative stuff. Painting, spending time with

people. I was just like, why don't I. Why am I

stopping myself?

And I think another thing was, like, thinking

about COVID and how we couldn't go out. And also

was a time to reflect about how you don't

appreciate what you have when you have it. And

when it's gone now, you can't go out. You miss

going out with your friends, you miss hanging out.

And it's just like, why can't I. Why can't we just

enjoy it while we have it? And so for me, I just.

That was like a switch where I just. I started

focusing on being grateful and just enjoying what

I have. And then I started saying, okay, you know

what. What do I really really want to do. I was

like, okay, we really wanted to do coaching. It

makes me feel fulfilled, and I can help people.

And that's when I just started going into it. And

also, as I said, I feel like as I accepted the

will of God at that moment, doors just started

opening as well, because there were just so many,

coaching workshops and programs that were just

coming up to help me in the discernment process

and to really, like, get coached by other coaches

and see what we was like. So I was just like, oh,

my gosh, this is so exciting. And so that was how

the journey started. Yeah. So for me, I would say,

like, really, healing from that. I think for

everybody, the journey will look different, but we

all have to go through the process of healing from

it because we've kind of been conditioned to

compare ourselves. And I. When I think about when

I was working in nurseries, there was a point

where we would have, like, the developmental m.

Milestones of the children. And you have to see

where the child, maybe your key children that you

have been assigned to you are in comparison to

the, you know, milestone. And I. I can see how,

yes, there would be an average, expectation

depending on your age. You just. And things like

that. But I feel like I also learned that every

child would start doing a different. Maybe, for

example, potty training when they are ready. And

you can't just force them. You have to actually

journey with them, or writing, for example, when

they are ready. And even some children, maybe they

are not talking at 2 and then 3, all the words

just coming out, and you're just like, wow, this

child has actually been learning even if they've

not been actually speaking. So you. Even if

there's this template, you realize that everybody

will still get to where they need to get to when

they are ready. we all have our unique path. No

matter what. No matter what. Even if you force

yourself to compare yourselves to other people,

you will still have your unique path. So, yeah, so

I think this, My journey with infertility really

helped me learn about how God is working in my own

life uniquely, and my own mission is unique. And

everything he wanted to do in my life, yeah, he's

doing it. Like, I can see how he's working in my

life now and how I had to go through some pain to

be able to really appreciate his work in my life.

So, yes, I just.

>> Julia: I want to go back to that point where you said

about, when you accepted God's will in your life,

you felt at that Peace. Have you. Has that piece

stayed with you, or has there been times where

that piece has maybe been disturbed?

>> Jacqueline: Yeah, I'll say. Like, one thing I've tried to do

is make sure my lifestyle maintains that peace. I

just say, like, as a candle, I can never leave, I

can never let go out. So every time I see myself,

like, going back to bad, like, habits I had, you

know, comparing myself to other people, I always,

like, remind myself that this piece has to keep

going. And so I came up with, like, a. I would say

a framework called the Thrive module that I myself

live by. And I talk to my clients about where I

kind of make sure that every day I'm monitoring my

thoughts because it all starts from our thoughts.

So I'm always making sure my thoughts are either

positive, purposeful, prayerful. Like, that's how

I feel my thoughts with that. And I also draw

from, the part in the Bible where it says, like,

whatever, things are good, you know, beautiful,

modest, if there be any discipline, think of on

these things. So I try to make sure I start with

my thoughts in the morning. I say my prayers, and

then I always listen to something motivational in

the morning just to make sure that my thoughts are

in the right place. And then, the. So the acronym

is thrive. So the T is thoughts, H is health.

Making sure I'm, like, being, you know, healthy,

eating lots of fruits and vegetables, drinking

water. Ah. Just to make sure that I am, you know,

keeping that mental. My mental health up, really.

And then relationships. I always try to, like,

have positive relationships around me when they

are, like, disagreements. I always try to find a

solution to it. That's the R and. And, the I is my

interior life. So I always make sure my prayer

life is always going where I have, like, time for

my morning prayers, you know, and my night

prayers, my rosary, things like that Mass. Then

virtues, which try to, like every. All of us have

a tendency towards a virtue and tendencies towards

vices. So we all have our, own personal ones. And.

And then education. Learning, learning every day.

There's so much to learn.

>> Julia: Yeah, there is. I really love that image of

thriving. You've got your planner there with it on

it.

>> Jacqueline: Yes, yes.

>> Julia: There's a saying that, like, we're all meant to,

We're all born to thrive, but so many of us are

just trying to survive.

>> Jacqueline: Exactly.

>> Julia: Like, that was a helpful guide in how to start

thriving as well.

And, I want to go back to the. You were talking

about the children that you used to work with and

they're all having their different developments.

And you were saying about you kind of learnt from

that that we're all on our own journeys.

>> Jacqueline: Yes.

>> Julia: And like things will happen when we're ready. And

it just gave me this image of like God looking at

us and going, you're on your own journey. It will

happen when it's meant to. And I just thought that

was a really beautiful image. And it also kind of

reminded me of the saying about being grateful for

the moment that you're in. So I saw this saying

once, it said like, be happy in this moment. Think

for this moment is your life. And the idea being

that you can always be waiting to be happy, but

then you actually just. Your life is just going to

be unhappy while you're wasting waiting to be

happy. What does it mean to you when you say you

are living in one of your unanswered prayers?

>> Jacqueline: Yeah, so it means in fact like when I think about

it. So recently I actually did a workshop with

another coach called Grace in the Waiting where we

were talking about the waiting period and just

living with grace and overcoming the lies of the

enemy and also like moving with action, with

faithful action in that period. And one of the

things I was sharing was actually how in my own

personal journey it was, it was really painful

also because I came from a large family so I was

always like, ever since I was young I was always

saying like when people ask me how many children,

children I wanted, I would say as many as God

gives me. And my husband comes from a large family

as well, so he's one of nine. And so it's like,

wow. Like for me I've. I just love family life and

large families. So it was just like a shock to me.

Or you know, sometimes when I think about is like,

wow, I can't believe this is real. But but I think

just shifting my mindset from what I don't have to

what I already have and all these women's stories

always like, I guess encourage me to think about

what I already have. So I m have a husband and I

spend time with him and we watch movies together

and if I want to go to cinema, I would go to the

cinema. I'm not going to say I'm not going to go

to the cinema. Like, you know, actually enjoying

the time we have together, planning together. Like

for example, we did a vision board together. Just

things like that, just things to make it fun and

exciting and just to enjoy what I already have.

And then we love our family so we spend time with

our family, we spend time with his nieces and

nephews. And when I'm able to travel back to see

my own nieces and nephews and my own family

members, I spend time with them. So I. And then

another thing that has been very helpful, has also

been the people around me. Some people have been

very kind and they've made me like the godmother

to their children. So that has been very kind of

them because it's also like being part of another

child's life and being their godmother and like

going for their birthdays as well, following up on

them, how are they doing? So that has been very

nice as well. I think I have like six got children

at the moment. So yes, it's really nice. So that

has been very helpful to make me enjoy the present

moment. And coaching has also been helpful to make

me enjoy the present moment because I'm available

to the women that I coach. So I. Yeah, because,

because I don't have children, then I'm available

for them. I'm available to, you know, speak with

them, guide them. So another friend of mine, I

remember her saying to me, like, and she has a

lot, she has a large family and she said to me,

like, you know, these are things you're able to

do, you know, And I think like that's where I

think that's something that we need to share

amongst ourselves as women rather than like, if

somebody comes to you, for example, and you're

married and they are not married and they're

saying to you, oh, it's really difficult, or at

least you're married, why don't you actually say

to them like, you're single now and there's so

much you can do now, like get to know yourself

more, get to develop your personal relationship

with God, like get to understand your personality

type, your temperament, get to understand this

your get it like, use this time to heal from your

trauma that you've been through in your past. Like

there's so much that can be happening at, ah,

every stage. And I just wish somebody had said

that to me. And so it's like, in a sense it's like

everybody should be trying to encourage the next

person rather than just let that next person just

feel horrible about their state in life. Like

that's where they are now, you know, God knows why

they are there now. And why don't you just

encourage that person rather than make them feel

horrible? I just feel like there were moments that

I would say to people like, oh, at Least you have

children. And I wish they had the right things to

say. Like, even if you don't have children now, do

you know that you. You. You still have this other

talent? Like, you're. You're really good at, you

know, coaching or, you know, I love that you're my

child's godmother. Or it's nice that you have this

extra time to pray. Like, okay, sometimes they

have children and they have to leave mass or

because they have to attend to their children, and

that's what God wants them to do at that time. But

I can be, you know, I can be praying extra

prayers, like, you know, so everybody, we all have

what, gift or what we can do right now, no matter

what season we're in, that we can actually value

before we leave the season. And then we now look

back and say, oh, I wish I was doing this. You

know, you look back and be like, oh, now I have a

husband. I have to ask him what we're doing for

the evening. When I was single, I could actually

just go, you know, to the cinema on my own. Like,

so every. Every season has its own, benefits, I

think. I really strongly believe this.

>> Julia: It's funny that you, mentioned maths and children,

because I am in that stage of definitely being

appreciative of the fact I can pray in Mass

because there's so many families around me where

quite often it's Mum on her own with the kids, and

she ends up having to go in. We have a crying

room, like, so a room that's attached to a church

where parents can go, but she has to go and take

the kids to her. And I feel in those moments where

I see them, I feel a lot of empathy for them, but

I'm also feeling very grateful that I can stay and

be present.

>> Jacqueline: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it's beautiful that

we're like, we're all part of the mystical body of

Christ, so we can pray for them as well. Like, oh,

this mom. It might be. It's difficult for her. God

help her, give her the patience, you know, I just

love that aspect. And I feel like, I mean, by the

grace of God, that's what I tried to do in my own

communities, you know, and just try amongst the

women in my community, just try to bring that

we're all together and there's no competition.

There's no, like, oh, I better, or, you know, I

do. There's just a lot of this mentality and,

like, just trying to heal from me that don't worry

we're all together. We can pray for each other, we

can joining together, even if we are not on the

same path.

>> Julia: so, yeah, so let's look at your being a life coach

because you've talked about it with us a bit. But

I, want to know what happened when you finally

like, decided, okay, I'm gonna be a life coach.

This is what I'm being called to. How did that

feel to you?

>> Jacqueline: Yeah, it felt amazing. I just felt so like, it all

started with the peace and then just felt like

freedom. It just feels like, yes, I'm doing what I

really want to do. And I've just had so many

things in my head, so many thoughts in my head for

a long time and just being able to express myself,

share all these thoughts either through my blog or

through my Instagram page, or through just, or

even on other people's YouTube channels or

whatever it is. Just being able to share has been

a huge. I mean, I'm reading Healing Process

itself. So yes, I think for me it's, it's really

been, it's really been beautiful to be able to

share and then journey with people as well. So I

just feel so happy when somebody who maybe is in a

was or is in a similar situation that I was in and

I'm able to like, just say the right thing to

them. I just feel yay. Thank God. Like even when,

when we did the Grace in the Waiting, event, I was

just happy I was able to tell them that there is

so much greatness in you. There is so much God

giving greatness in you. Don't let this season

just make you feel like there's like, that there's

nothing, like your purpose there. So there's so

much you can be doing right now. And it just made

me feel so happy to be able to give people

something I really wanted.

>> Julia: So.

>> Jacqueline: Yeah.

>> Julia: So what is the difference between being a Catholic

life coach and spiritual direction or being a

psychologist?

>> Jacqueline: Yeah, so, being a life coach is more about helping

people maximize their potential. So you actually

take people through a creative process sometimes

it's a lot of powerful questions that you're

asking and you're trying to help them uncover what

is already in them. So it's a lot. So sometimes

people think it's just advice. You're giving this

person advice. Well, it's not that is that you're

helping that person uncover that God giving

greatness in them. And because we are made for

relationships, it's always through relationship

that we uncover these things and that's where the

coach comes in. But spiritual direction is purely

about like guiding you in your spiritual life. So

it will focus more about like your virtues. Like

it's more, it's purely spiritual, I think, like,

because we're human, like things would cross

paths. So for example, if somebody was trying to

be my spiritual director when I was comparing

myself to others and I was really sad, they would

probably tell me about what is God saying to you

in this season? Right. And then clinical

psychologists and therapists, they focus more on

healing, the healing from past trauma. So. But I

focus more on moving you forward. So the

psychologist is looking at what's happened in the

past and these ones are holding you back. I focus

on what you can do in the present to have a more

exciting future.

>> Julia: So what do you wish you'd known earlier about

comparison, trust and happiness?

>> Jacqueline: yeah, I just wish I knew that I have my own God

given mission and my own unique path. And I wish

that that was just general knowledge. But I know

it's a journey for everyone, but I just wish I

knew that earlier. And I wish I knew that using my

gifts would really make me feel dis. Fulfilled.

And I wish I had focused more on that. Like, okay,

what is God asking you to do right now? Rather

than I will do this when or I will be happy when

or if this happens, then I'll be happy. I wish I

just focus more on, okay, what is God asking me to

do now and then. Yeah, I wish I did that earlier,

but I'm still grateful that I'm doing that now. As

the saying goes, like the best time to plant a

tree is 100 years ago. The second best time is

now. So I'm still grateful to God for that

revelation because I could have, I mean, God

forbid, died without knowing that and I would have

felt like, oh my gosh, there's so much wasted

potential, you know. So, yes, I'm grateful to God

for this, realization and, and making me his

instrument to spread it to other people so that

they just come out of this rot of comparison.

trust. I would say, like, yeah, I just wish I

understood that trusting God is like trusting no

other. Like, it's, it's not, it's not. I can't

compare my trust to go to anybody else in the

whole world. Like just knowing that trusting God

would not mean that I'm I'm losing out on

something or that I'm making a mistake or that I

would, yes, you know, because the journey to

trusting God is so is so it's not easy because

you're always thinking, if I trust you, then it's

going to be so difficult and I won't be able to

cope. Or I want to trust you, but, like, I don't

like what you're saying, you know? And so I wish I

knew that it's safe and okay to trust God. Like,

don't worry, he has. He has got your back. And.

Yeah, I wish I knew. Yeah. That happiness is

something that, you. You can't. You can't just

pursue it. Like, oh, I'm going after. Happiness is

that you're living a purposeful life, and then

happiness comes from that. So try. So it's like

trying to find purpose and help other people and

love God and love others. And that's. Happiness

now comes as a result of that.

>> Julia: And what are you grateful for?

>> Jacqueline: Yeah, I'm grateful for, like, God working in my

life. I'll say just God working in my life. Just

that there's a God who knows everything and who's

so good. that's what I'm grateful for, really.

Because if not for him working in my life, I

wouldn't even be here. So that's. I'm really

grateful for God. I'm grateful and then God, my

family members, my husband and friends. Yeah. But

ultimately all. It all starts with God. Yeah.

>> Julia: It's a great answer. Thank, you for joining us.

>> Jacqueline: thank you.

>> Julia: Thanks for listening to Things I Wish I Knew. I

know this conversation is going to stay with me

because of Jacqueline's openness about her

experience and the way she talks about thriving

and being grateful and present for the moment

you're currently in. How about you? We'd love to

hear how Jacqueline's story resonated with you.

And why not Also tell us if you're facing an

experience you wish you knew how to look at

differently. It might just be something we can

help with. You can find out more about this and

other themes at thinkingfaith.org. Thank you again

for listening. I hope you'll join me again next

time on Things I Wish I Knew.