Jayne Ray: Hi everyone, I'm Jane Ray, and welcome to another episode of Joyous Journeys Over 60, and as always, I am joined by my fabulous podcast partner.

Andreas Stein: You are fabulous, Jane. I am just, Andrea Stein. You are the fabulous one of us, too.

Jayne Ray: Oh, okay, well, thank you for that. You know, Andreas, as you know, I am of an age.

Jayne Ray: I…

Andreas Stein: I guess it would apply to all of us, right?

Jayne Ray: Yes, but I am of an age, maybe a little bit older than you are.

Jayne Ray: And, you know, one of the interesting things when you travel in my circle of friends, you know, those that are, let's say, over 60, 65, is you find a lot of people, in my case, mostly women.

Jayne Ray: Who, for whatever reason, are single at this stage in life. Maybe it's through divorce, maybe it's through, sadly, the loss of a spouse. And so, you know, really trying to find companionship.

Andreas Stein: Right?

Jayne Ray: You know, a life partner, whether it's marriage or not, at this age, is very different than when you were looking for a life partner when you were much younger.

Jayne Ray: And I know you probably see some of that through your experience with your congregation, because your congregation is of an older demographic.

Andreas Stein: It's scary. I mean, dating… I think that's what we are talking about, dating, right? Entering the dating pool again. I mean, dating is scary when you are

Andreas Stein: In high school, or in college, or a young adult after college?

Andreas Stein: I think it's even scarier, you know, when you are in that senior chapter of life. It's… it's scary. I mean, it's, you know, you… you know, when you're 18, 19, 20, or something like that, you know, you still have…

Andreas Stein: This, idea about…

Andreas Stein: life, that it's all gonna work out, it's all gonna be great, and it's all gonna be loving and wonderful, once you're… I'm making a number up right now, once you're 60, you have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly, and the really ugly, and you know that…

Andreas Stein: You know, dating… can have consequences.

Jayne Ray: Yeah, I think when you're younger, you kind of have an expectation that dating is just part of, you know, being a young adult.

Andreas Stein: Yeah.

Jayne Ray: It's just part of being a young adult. Maybe you're looking for a life partner, maybe you're just looking to have some fun. And also, I think your personal confidence is very different.

Jayne Ray: At that age, how you feel about yourself, either from the very awkward, right, teenagers are notoriously awkward, to those that are very, very confident, in their, you know, how they look, or, you know, what they believe in, or, you know, how they think.

Jayne Ray: But it is different. It is an expectation that at that point in your life, that's going to become pretty normal. You're just going to date. When you reach 60,

Jayne Ray: you know, you meet couples that have been married for 40, 50 years. You meet others that, you know, have lifelong partners, and I would guess that most of us don't expect to be single.

Jayne Ray: At that age of your life. So, your confidence is also very different

Jayne Ray: than maybe it was even in your 30s, right? It's a very, very different confidence when you have to enter back into the dating scene, not only from the obvious, right? The obvious of, you know, hey, I've got a couple of wrinkles, couple of gray hairs.

Jayne Ray: You know, maybe I'm not as fit as I used to be, but also from the… comfort.

Jayne Ray: with… Meeting somebody that may or may not end up being a potential romantic partner.

Jayne Ray: And so, it is scary. And then, of course, you add on the other complexity of true scariness. Other than meeting a stranger, other than how are you going to meet them, other than with, you know, being normally uncomfortable with just

Jayne Ray: You know, starting into the dating scene again.

Jayne Ray: there's also scams out there, so you're kind of being a little bit, you know, reluctant, because you don't want to be scammed. I mean, I have some stories about that that I'll share in a little bit, but… So yeah, it's a very, very complex

Jayne Ray: situation emotionally and socially, but…

Jayne Ray: I also think, and I think this is an important factor, what you were looking for

Jayne Ray: or what your goals were when you were in your, let's say, 20s or 30s, compared to what your goals are now, are very different. You know, when you meet your life partner in your 20s and 30s, you're gonna build a family together, you're going to build a life together, you're gonna build a home together, whether there's children or not children.

Jayne Ray: You know, anything along that line. I think at this stage in life, chances are good you both have children.

Jayne Ray: Right. Maybe grandchildren. And so, again, you add that kind of layer of what are you really looking for now? Are, you know, are you looking to build a home? Are you looking for companionship? And I think those are all questions that

Jayne Ray: when faced with that, you have to answer for yourself. What are you looking for?

Jayne Ray: And, and that's complicated.

Andreas Stein: it is complicated. I think, Jane, listening to you, I think two things stood out to me. I think you mentioned the word confidence, you know, and obviously there is a lot of, you know, teenagers that don't have confidence, or young adults, I mean, teenagers, young adults, something like that, but you still… there's… it's…

Andreas Stein: you know… there is a confidence there. Once… let's say you're 60, 65,

Andreas Stein: You know, which means you start to, you know, feel, you know, a certain weakening in your own body, illnesses become more real, you know, and…

Andreas Stein: you know, career is over, or because of retirement, you know, in some cases it is not. I get that, you know, that's not always the case.

Andreas Stein: It's hard to, you know, to… to have that inner confidence, and to come, you know, and if you don't have confidence, it makes the whole dating…

Andreas Stein: It's not a dating game, but this whole dating endeavor even scarier, you know, because,

Andreas Stein: He kind of… feels like walking on water, you know, and, you know, yes, in the Bible, Jesus walked on water, but somehow we… it's not sure that we do it, we may drown in this, you know, and then what's then?

Andreas Stein: But the other thing I want to mention is, as you mentioned, if you are single at age 60, 65-something, you know, you… chances are, you know, you lost your partner, or there's a divorce, there was a breakup.

Andreas Stein: But the longing for closeness, the longing for a partner.

Andreas Stein: So longing for intimacy in the fullest meaning of that word is just as real. And…

Andreas Stein: And how do you deal? Because longing is not just not going away. No one wants to be alone. And it's probably easier to be alone at age 20, because you can still pretty much do whatever you want, you know? At age… it's scarier to be alone at age 65. So this longing of the heart is…

Andreas Stein: It's powerful, so it makes it even more important and even scarier to enter the dating scene.

Jayne Ray: Absolutely. You're… I love the word longing.

Jayne Ray: Right? It's longing to not be alone. It's longing to feel a part of something. It's longing to have a relationship. Particularly, you know, at that age, chances are good your children have grown, and they've moved on to their own lives. And, you know, we've talked a lot about, you know, moving into new communities, making new friends. Before you retired.

Jayne Ray: You know, you were surrounded by people.

Jayne Ray: Whether you were single or not, but you were surrounded by people just by the nature of the fact that you worked. Once you retire, I think

Jayne Ray: that… that is where the fear and the longing kind of, you know, conflict with each other, because you long for it, but you're afraid. And… and so there's… there's a conflict in your heart.

Andreas Stein: Yeah.

Jayne Ray: And then, particularly if you lost somebody, either through divorce or through, passing, there's also hurt.

Jayne Ray: And I think that, you know, that's an important factor there. Will I ever find somebody that I can care for, when the person I care for either, you know, we didn't work out, or, you know, they passed away? So, it is very, very complex.

Jayne Ray: So, that's the bad news, right? The bad news is it's a little bit scary, it's,

Jayne Ray: It's complicated, no doubt about it. But there's a lot of good news, right? There's a lot of good news that comes with senior dating.

Jayne Ray: And I can share a little bit of my own story. You know, as you know, I've only been married, again, 9 years. I was divorced after 25, met my current husband online. We're like Match.com's poster children.

Jayne Ray: And it turned out we met online, and we lived 3 miles away from each other, and 3 of our children were in the same high school, but we had to go to Match.com to meet each other. But we dated for 6 years before we actually got married. So…

Jayne Ray: again, what were we looking for? It was very different than when we were looking… when we were younger. We were looking for someone to have fun with, someone… a companionship, someone to share your life with, and also likely somebody that was stable in their own right.

Andreas Stein: Right.

Jayne Ray: Financially, hopefully, emotionally, but who also had their own baggage. I mean, everybody brings baggage to a relationship at a certain age.

Jayne Ray: But it is possible. I think the challenge, and it's still kind of good news, the challenge is, where do you go meet people at this age of your life?

Jayne Ray: when you were working, again, you might have met somebody in the workplace, you might have met somebody after work at a happy hour, or, you know, you might have met somebody through friends. At this age, the most common way, particularly for seniors, is to

Jayne Ray: Date online. You know, meet people online.

Andreas Stein: And that… you mentioned the word scam earlier, I mean, it's… you know, online is… is… real.

Andreas Stein: But how do you know Whoever it is that you're talking to is a real person.

Andreas Stein: If he or she is a real person, how do you know that he or she is what he or she

Andreas Stein: Pretends to be.

Andreas Stein: How now… how do you know you're not getting taken for a ride here, and taken advantage of?

Jayne Ray: Well, and that's the most interesting part about this. So, I can tell you a couple of interesting experiences.

Jayne Ray: So, first of all, I was only on the dating apps for a very short period of time, luckily, before I met my current husband. But there was sort of a dance that occurred. First of all, online dating can be the greatest shopping experience of your whole life.

Jayne Ray: It really can be. Like, I suggest to my single friends, you know, pour yourself a glass of wine, sign up, sign in, and just go read a bunch of profiles, because you will just find a wealth

Jayne Ray: Of… of information about people.

Jayne Ray: The scammers are the ones that are, usually the ones that are

Jayne Ray: are overly romantic, very quick to, you know, oh, I've never met anybody like you before, oh, you know, I'll throw rose petals on, you know, in the pathway, and you know, you think to yourself, well, I'm divorced, you know?

Andreas Stein: Sweet, huh?

Jayne Ray: Right, it's a little too… it's a little too… too… too… too much. So, my first advice is, first of all, pour yourself that glass of wine if you like wine. But more importantly, read the words before you look at the picture, right? Read the words of the profile, because that's, I think, where you see somebody's heart.

Jayne Ray: I think that you can tell genuineness, because it's not overly flowery, and it's not overly, not romantic, but it's…

Jayne Ray: it's not something out of the Hallmark movies.

Andreas Stein: Right?

Jayne Ray: You know what I mean, right? It's… it's… look for people that are genuine. So, I always say, look for the words before you look at the pictures, because the other thing is, we all want, you know, we all want to, you know, date.

Jayne Ray: George Clooney, you know what I mean?

Andreas Stein: Is he still kind of the ultimate…

Jayne Ray: I don't know. I always say if, you know, if I become senile, tell me I'm married to George Clooney.

Andreas Stein: Okay.

Jayne Ray: But the point is, is that, you know, we're all looking for the fantasy image.

Andreas Stein: Right.

Jayne Ray: My suggestion, of course, is read the words, right? Read the words, because you, you, you find a lot of things in the words that are tells, right? And it's not necessarily a tell about being scammed, but it's also a tell about whether somebody is

Jayne Ray: Sincere, and actually interested in dating, or somebody that's

Jayne Ray: you know, even at 60 or 65, they're just looking for hookups, you know, same as 18. You know what I mean? There really is… Is there still a hookup?

Andreas Stein: What's going on 65?

Jayne Ray: Oh, absolutely! And, you know, there are people that are gonna try… men and women, by the way, that are gonna try to relive, their, you know, teenage… late teenager to early 30s.

Jayne Ray: life, and for whatever reason, to rebel against whatever happened to them. So, you know, you have to look for the heart when you need people. Sadly.

Jayne Ray: In person, it is… More and more difficult to… Meet people, meet potential… Dating partners.

Jayne Ray: Because there aren't a lot of places that, that…

Jayne Ray: Cater to, you know, people over 55 or 60.

Jayne Ray: Now, if you live in a 55 or older community, sure. I mean, you're likely going to meet the man or woman who's also divorced, or also lost a partner, and that could be organic. But other than that, you know, in the old days, you would have gone to a bar.

Jayne Ray: Or you would have gone to a social event, or you would have gone somewhere where it was likely that there would be

Jayne Ray: prospective dating candidates. Doesn't that sound.

Andreas Stein: But I think, Jane, I think you're hitting on the nail right, also, which makes it so scary. Let's say you're 20 years old, right? And you hang out with your friends, and you go to some social… I don't know, whatever it is, a bar, a ball game, or whatever else, chances are you hang out with your friends, and among your friends, there's probably tons of other singles.

Andreas Stein: Right. If you're 60, and you go out with friends wherever, whatever the social environment is, 80% of the people there are married, are there with a partner, and you kind of… don't you start to feel like the odd person out? I mean, you know, well, everyone has a partner, and here am I.

Jayne Ray: Absolutely, absolutely. It is more likely that the people that you know, whether long-time people or new people, are still part of a couple.

Jayne Ray: And so, and so that's even more intimidating, right? Or, they will try to fix you up with one of their friends, which is not a bad thing. I mean, we haven't had blind dates since we were, you know, in our 20s, but, but there you go. I'll tell you a funny story.

Andreas Stein: So…

Jayne Ray: Years ago, in Boca Raton, Florida, there was a nightclub, I don't know if it's still there, called Platforms, and it was a small little place, it wasn't a very, very large place.

Jayne Ray: And we went there one night, and it was my current husband, a friend of mine, and his wife, just happened to go there, and it happened to be disco night. Okay, it happened to be disco night.

Andreas Stein: This grenade, that's the 80s.

Jayne Ray: And, yeah, in the 80s, right? And so… and it catered to… it wasn't in a 55 and older community, but it catered to a crowd that happened to be older.

Jayne Ray: And we saw people coming out in, you know, the white John Travolta suits, and the Madonna type of, you know, sparkly dresses, and whatever, and they were having a blast, but…

Jayne Ray: As we kind of observed, it was a sing… it was not an intentional singles gathering, but it was definitely someplace where single seniors

Jayne Ray: We're going to, first of all, have fun and dance and, you know, just feel young. But that at some point, you know, it was where people were looking for potential dating partners.

Jayne Ray: And, you know, and you can kind of make fun of it a little bit, because the costumes and the, you know, and all of that, but you know what? In sincerity, it was a place that was…

Jayne Ray: Comfortable, for…

Jayne Ray: people that still wanted to dance, still wanted to meet people, and it was great! It was great! I mean, it wasn't, you know, the most luxurious place, it had, like, a screen with, you know, old music videos on it and whatever, but…

Jayne Ray: It was a lot of fun, and one of our friends that was with us, who was single through divorce, had said, hey, I wish I had known that. I could meet 100 women here.

Jayne Ray: But the truth is, there are places, right? There are places like that. You know, even in the old days, you would have probably never gone yourself. You would have gone with a friend.

Jayne Ray: But there are places like that. And, you know, and so online dating is not your only option, although, certainly, you know, it is an option. And if you do go through online dating.

Jayne Ray: And then you do meet somebody in person, you know, the good advice is meet them in a very public place. Like, I met my husband at Barnes & Noble. We had coffee at Barnes & Noble. I didn't tell my… my son was living with me at the time, I didn't tell him where I was going, I just said I was going to have coffee with a friend.

Jayne Ray: And then, like, 3 hours later, you know, my son's calling me, like, Mom, are you okay? Are you okay? And we were still sitting in Barnes & Noble talking. But, you know, you choose a public place. So, safety is important.

Jayne Ray: But also, being a little adventurous in terms of

Jayne Ray: You know, putting yourself a little bit out there.

Andreas Stein: Yep.

Jayne Ray: is part of that, and again, it's not easy. I won't say that it's easy.

Jayne Ray: I'm very blessed. I did meet the love of my life, and I'm, you know, very, very happy about that. But sometimes you gotta kiss a few frogs before you find the prince, if you know what I mean.

Andreas Stein: Well, I mean, that's true at age 20 as it is at age 65, right? I mean…

Andreas Stein: Very rarely, you know, is somebody getting married at the first date with the person he or she dated with first.

Jayne Ray: Well, that's absolutely true. And you know, Andreas, there's one part of this topic that I think we need to…

Jayne Ray: responsibly talk about, and that's intimacy.

Andreas Stein: Yes.

Jayne Ray: Pus.

Jayne Ray: You know, at 60 or 65, your intimate life hopefully is not over.

Andreas Stein: Right?

Jayne Ray: And… and again, it's very different than when you were much younger, because, again, I can list a hundred different reasons why intimacy can be very, very complicated.

Jayne Ray: And, and you know, the, you know, there's the old rule about the third date, right? Have you ever heard that rule, like, the third date? You don't have to, you don't have to abide by any of that.

Jayne Ray: Right? But, you do have to realize that, you know, particularly at this age, intimacy is… is not gone.

Jayne Ray: And that, that if that is something that, you know, you're interested in, your partner is interested in, don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

Andreas Stein: Absolutely.

Jayne Ray: Young at… young at heart, and and again, regardless of where the relationship ends.

Jayne Ray: It's complicated.

Andreas Stein: It is complicated, yes, and…

Andreas Stein: It's complicated, I think, at any age. The complicated is different at age 65 than it is at age 20, but I love what you mentioned. Don't let anyone tell you that, you know, at a certain age, life is over. You know, and just, you know, just, you know, whether it's about intimacy or other longing, etc. No, it's not.

Andreas Stein: You know, and… You know, these longings, they're real, that's part of who we are.

Andreas Stein: And to try to… to ignore it.

Andreas Stein: it's not gonna work. I mean, or it would make you miserable. It would just reinforce that emptiness and longings and loneliness inside of you.

Andreas Stein: And, yes, and so whether it's 60, 65, you know, and you, find a new partner, whether that is, you know, on Match.com, or…

Andreas Stein: at a…

Andreas Stein: at a disco ball, a disco evening, at the platforms, or wherever it may be. You know, as a pastor, I can tell you a lot of matchmaking happens in churches, actually. I mean, single ministries are real, real not just for young adults, they are even real for, you know, churches that cater, like, peace for a 60-plus year old.

Andreas Stein: But… Don't let anyone tell you that at a certain age.

Andreas Stein: you know, life is pretty much over with, you know? No. Even at any age, you deserve…

Andreas Stein: that fulfillment That… that comes with every part of our humanness, of our longing for everything.

Andreas Stein: And I think that's a positive, that's not a negative. It's scary.

Andreas Stein: And, yes, you want to protect yourself in, you know, but it's real.

Andreas Stein: And… even at age 65.

Andreas Stein: Or at any age.

Andreas Stein: There's still a lot of… Happiness, Fulfillment, beauty.

Andreas Stein: That God has created for you in life in all its fullness. And don't sacrifice that fullness.

Jayne Ray: I absolutely… I agree with you 100%. Don't let anyone, particularly your children.

Andreas Stein: Yes.

Jayne Ray: That that part of your life is over.

Jayne Ray: Because, again, you know, I always say my mantra is, if not now, when? And not only 60 or 65, what about 70, 75, and 80?

Andreas Stein: Absolutely.

Jayne Ray: You know, that part of your life

Jayne Ray: The longing to have a companion, the longing to be part of a relationship, the longing to want to take care of somebody, have somebody take care of you.

Jayne Ray: That doesn't necessarily go away.

Jayne Ray: And, you know, well, you're too old for that. No, you're not. No, you're not. And if it's something that you're interested in, yes, it's scary. Be smart, right? Be smart. But… but don't… don't let that fear

Jayne Ray: stop you from trying. Again, sites like Match.com, you don't have to do anything. You just pour yourself a glass of wine, go shopping, and if there is somebody you see that you think might be interesting, you click a like, and maybe they'll respond, and maybe they won't, and you know, there's a certain… there's a certain…

Jayne Ray: anonymity.

Jayne Ray: That starts off that way.

Jayne Ray: Go to platforms, or go to a church singles event, or, you know, go on a cruise.

Andreas Stein: Well, there's a lot of single cruises for seniors. I know, you know, a lot of 55 and older communities have single groups, you know, where, you know, where you go to a restaurant or whatever, wherever you would go, play or something like this. I mean, there's a lot of opportunities, but I think…

Andreas Stein: I think the challenge is not a lack of places, whether it's online, or a cruise, or a singles group, wherever,

Andreas Stein: confidence, and it's scary. I think this is the bigger challenge than, well, what should I try, you know? And…

Andreas Stein: Yes, and I love what you said earlier. At this stage, I mean, you probably have experienced a lot of hurt in relationships, you know? I mean, if it's a divorce, it's kind of obvious.

Andreas Stein: If it's grief because a partner died, it's… that's real. And, you know, there's this element, well, I have… this longing is real.

Andreas Stein: And I really don't want to get hurt again either, you know? And there are these two things that are fighting inside of you, you know? I mean, both are real.

Jayne Ray: Absolutely. And I will tell you one thing as we end. I know people are very afraid of scams. And listen, let's face facts, the scams are out there, right?

Jayne Ray: There is a website called RomanceScam.com, and if you're communicating with somebody, of course, if somebody asks you for money or gives you a sob story, that's a scam, right? The minute they give you the sob story of, you know, my wife died, my child, I'm stuck in a foreign country, can you give me your credit card? No.

Jayne Ray: Oh, invest in this cryptocurrency that I'm involved in. No. But…

Jayne Ray: if… if you're concerned that, that you are being scammed, there is a website called RomanceScam.com. How do I know that? I had a friend of mine that, had met somebody online, and

Jayne Ray: And had sent her the most beautiful, really beautiful communications, about, I've never met anybody like you, I'm in love with you, you know, they never even met in person.

Jayne Ray: And, and we found exactly those same communications on RomanceScam.com. So, if you're concerned.

Andreas Stein: That is a very good tip, Sarah, yes.

Jayne Ray: Yeah, if you're concerned that somebody is pushing too hard, or maybe a little too fast in terms of, you know, hey.

Jayne Ray: You know, I love you, I love you, I love you.

Jayne Ray: Chances are good that the fairy tales are meant to stay in the fairy tale books.

Andreas Stein: Yep.

Jayne Ray: But you can check it. You can, you can absolutely check it. It should not stop you.

Jayne Ray: No. From yourself out there. Just be smart, be aware, look for the signs, and read the words, right? People's words.

Jayne Ray: how they… how they position their words. Yeah. And I'll… I'll end with telling you something. So my husband, when he put up his profile, you know, he… he didn't say, like, I like long walks on the beach or anything. He said, I like to go to the theater.

Jayne Ray: And I like to go to the movies. I like to go to the theater, I like to go to the movies. But he said, he's from West Virginia, and he said, I'm sophisticated country.

Andreas Stein: Okay.

Jayne Ray: Yeah, you know Sean, and you know that.

Andreas Stein: Yeah.

Jayne Ray: That probably describes him very, very well. But those words were very genuine.

Andreas Stein: Yes.

Jayne Ray: They were very, very genuine, that this was a real person who wasn't looking for the moonlight walks on the beach, or anything like that, that just wanted to go to the movies. And guess what? I just wanted to go to the movies. Yeah. So, yeah, so again, you know, just to wrap up.

Jayne Ray: This is your time of life.

Jayne Ray: And whatever you decide, make the most of it, right? Make the most of it. Don't let anybody, friend, family, other…

Jayne Ray: Really tell you, sorry, you know, that part of your life is over.

Andreas Stein: And don't let your own heart scare you out of it. Oh, you're, you know, there are these scams out, and you're no longer, you know, a 20-year-old, you know, whatever, attractive. Don't let your heart convince you that this part of your life is over. It's not.

Jayne Ray: It's not. It's not.

Jayne Ray: So hopefully we'll hear from some listeners, and they'll tell us some great, senior dating stories, in the future.

Andreas Stein: I'd love to hear some great senior dating stories, yes.

Jayne Ray: Absolutely, I would love to hear some great, dating stories, and of course, you can go to our Facebook page.

Jayne Ray: And we would love to hear from you. Andreas, as always, this is a pleasure. I always love talking to you. And again, for those of you who are listening, you know, we call this Joyous Journeys Over 60 for a very specific reason, because your journey now…

Jayne Ray: should be joyous, right? Yes. You've worked hard, you've raised a family, you've had a good career, whatever that your lifestyle has been, the good, the bad, the pain, the happiness, this is your time. And so, I really do hope that your journeys this week are truly joyous.

Andreas Stein: Yes.

Jayne Ray: Alright, I'm Jane Ray, and…

Andreas Stein: Estine.

Jayne Ray: Hi, wishing everybody joyous journeys.