Anne Genduso: A stranger scam, an intimate betrayal, and a devastating long con.

Three very different stories, but they all force us to ask the same question:

How does someone end up in a situation that seems so obvious in hindsight

when at the time nothing felt wrong?

Welcome to Nothing Felt Wrong, where we share stories of scams, deception, and

manipulation, and how ordinary people get pulled into situations that feel

believable until suddenly they don't.

I'm Anne Genduso, and if you're fascinated by deception and human behavior, take a

seat next to me at The Side Eye Society.

today we're joined by my friend Lyssa for a special side eye session where

we'll examine three Reddit stories and ask ourselves the question

everyone loves to answer from a distance: I have seen it coming?

Let's find out.

All right.

Hey, Lyssa.

Lyssa: Ooh, I am on the edge of my seat with that intro.

Anne Genduso: Can't wait to find out what we're gonna be talking about today.

Lyssa: Yes, he is

Anne Genduso: Well, I'm sure you'll have lots to say about it.

so we'll go through, and I'm gonna read these stories, and the first one, as I

mentioned earlier, is the jury duty scam.

this is from Reddit user Jaugernau- how do you say that word?

I'm sorry.

Juggernaut?

Lyssa: J- Juggernaut?

Juggernaut?

Anne Genduso: a different accent.

Juggernaut-Suitable, which I always, I have to say, as an aside,

I always love these Reddit names.

Lyssa: know.

Anne Genduso: they're all over

Lyssa: You laugh

Anne Genduso: all right.

So the headline of this is, "I just got scammed, and I feel a deep shame

that is becoming hard to overcome." I got caught up in the scam where

you're threatened with legal action for not appearing for jury duty.

I truly do not know how I fell for something that seems so obvious now.

I always thought I had a good head on my shoulders and could spot

this kind of stuff a mile away.

I was smarter than this.

the moment, it felt so real and terrifying, and looking back, I just

feel so violated and taken advantage of, but overall, just plain stupid.

I've already contacted two of the accounts that were used.

The companies gave me hope of a protection plan, so I'm not at a total loss.

My primary bank kinda told me, "Sucks to suck," when I

tried to explain what happened.

So I'm currently in the spot where I'm just waiting for the charges to

post so I may formally dispute them.

The more I remember all the details of what I was told to do and what I

ended up doing, I have higher hopes of recovering financially than I

do recovering mentally from this.

I feel a deep shame over this, and the one silver lining is that my partner has

been incredibly supportive and comforting.

He even drove out to me when I wasn't answering the phone,

and I was in an unusual place.

guy blames himself for not picking up on the weird signs of my whereabouts sooner.

He'd been trying to calm me down for hours.

We've reached out to police, and even the officers were so kind and understanding.

All of that to say, I still feel some of the worst shame and embarrassment

I've ever experienced in life.

This is all so fresh, and as it just happened today, and I've done nothing

but stew about it, even after everything my partner has said and done to make

me feel better, safe, and supported.

this feeling normal?

Is this something that will truly pass?

alone is eating me alive and preventing me from even seeing what is past this.

you for taking the time to read my crash out of the day.

Oh, okay.

So before we get into this, I just wanted to say that I think one of

the reasons we wanted to share these stories is because scammers thrive

on silence, people don't talk about what happened they're embarrassed.

and shame doesn't protect us, the stories do.

So Lyssa, what are you thinking on this one?

Lyssa: I feel so bad.

They- the- their message was coming from such a, a, like, despair.

And, um, th- the fact that they felt… I'm kind of like, on one hand feel

terrible for them because of how dark and deep of a place they were in, but also

kind of, there's a little bit of hope as wild as it is that they found a community

within Reddit that they felt comfortable enough to share this with, and it- that

alone is- is a, a, you know, anonymously being able to share their story without,

without that shame and judgment maybe.

They felt a supportive community there.

Their partner sounds amazing.

Anne Genduso: Yes, for sure

Lyssa: and it's the, like, the lingering effects of doubting oneself

that you hear in the message too.

It's gonna take them a while for their confidence to be built up, which, you

know, I always think about, you know, con man is short for confidence man, and just

ti- like, the, the confidence that, that whoever stole from this person, like the,

the confidence isn't always coming, it's not just coming from the person who is

the con man, it's stealing the confidence from the person who they're, victimizing

Anne Genduso: Yeah.

They're like confidence

Lyssa: Yeah

Anne Genduso: we talk about energy vampires, but they're confidence vampires

Lyssa: I hadn't thought about until h- hearing that message.

So it's just like I feel so much empathy for someone in that situation

because, again, we could all easily… It could hap- it could

happen to any of us, and that's the, that's t- it's just terrifying.

I- did they provide any details of the circumstances?

How it… 'Cause that's always my, like, where I go to first.

Like, how can I detach or disassociate by hearing the thing that I wouldn't do?

Because as a human, I'm like, "That's, I could never do that. I could, that,

I could never be in that situation."

Anne Genduso: Yeah, I know.

but the problem is we

Lyssa: We all could

Anne Genduso: so the- it's, they didn't put it in here, but I'll tell

you, like, this, these jury duty scams are one of the most prolific out

Lyssa: I've never heard of it

Anne Genduso: the biggest one are bank scams right now, but, jury duty, I

have had this-- I, I've definitely seen this come across, but basically what

they do tell people that you either missed jury duty, you were supposed to

be a part of jury duty, was something you were supposed to do, and you

didn't, and you were gonna have a fine.

And basically, to make it go away, you pay a fine to get out of it.

it's, it's gross.

It's disgusting.

It's preying on people because, know, there's so many little different things

in here that appeal to your average sensibilities and, and that's why

I say it could happen to any of us.

and I think if I'm looking at the manipulation playbook

and at what these con men or

Lyssa: Hmm, people.

Anne Genduso: con people, they-- in this case, you're leveraging authority,

Lyssa: Mm-hmm.

Anne Genduso: you come from a position of, we are somebody that

you're supposed to pay attention to.

We are official government workers.

We are, you know, we are telling you these things.

Sometimes they come in physical mail, but a lot of times they come

through texts, which can be one of your first kinda like signals because

jury duty is not gonna text you.

but you can get an email.

It can look really official.

You could get an actual piece of mail too.

And then with every single one of these scams and deception and

manipulators, they always really try to go into the emotion, right?

And if they can tap into the right emotion with the right person at the

right time, that's they can make it work.

So what do you think, what emotion do you

Lyssa: Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

The- there appe- it's funny there- as someone who, if I get a message like,

"You're late doing this thing," or, "Your bill hasn't been paid," or th- the

direct deposit number, whatever, I get like really, I think this is the- the-

the rule following, you know, like I, and

Anne Genduso: Yeah.

Lyssa: it, it is, it is appealing to someone or taking advantage of someone who

is highly responsible typically, you know?

and 'cause I, now that you're- you're describing it, I have

definitely received a lot of those texts recently, but for tolls.

Anne Genduso: Yes.

Lyssa: And then it makes you question like, "Wait a second.

Was I even in Pennsylvania?" Like,

Anne Genduso: Right

Lyssa: oh, I wasn't.

but like, I'm like ga- like it's like ga- like I'm gaslighting myself.

Like, maybe I was, and I don't remember

Anne Genduso: It's you- yeah, you're on the… And that's the whole thing.

We start rationalizing things and start thinking about, "Well, maybe I

did do it, and… Or maybe I missed a… How would I, how did I miss it?

Did I miss a piece of mail? Did I…" You know, like for this jury duty

one, that could be really easy, right?

Lyssa: Mm-hmm.

Anne Genduso: "Oh my God, I missed something and I was supposed to be

there." yeah, I, I think the, for me, like, they're, these types of

scams are so big on leveraging fear.

And it's like, you should be afraid that you messed up, and if you wanna get out

of this very official situation, then you are going to get a very official fine,

which if you have never been called for jury duty or you haven't done that before,

seems like it could be a reasonable thing.

Like,

Lyssa: Yeah

Anne Genduso: know.

If I missed something, you get a fine for, you know, speeding,

Lyssa: Sure.

Anne Genduso: your toll, just like you said.

So, like,

Lyssa: Es- especially new, like new citizens because I, I believe once you

sign up or once you register to vote, I th- once you become a citizen and register

to vote, may- I forget what triggers what, but that would be a, a huge group

of, a very vulnerable group of people who would be targeted by something like this

Anne Genduso: Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I hadn't even thought

Lyssa: And,

Anne Genduso: way, but yeah,

Lyssa: and having gone through, you know, a decade's worth of attempting to become

a US citizen and, like you don't, oh, you don't want to do anything wrong for fear

of what could happen as a result of you n- not going to your jury duty or whatever.

Like, that's terrifying

Anne Genduso: Yeah.

I think, you know what I've heard a lot more recently is

that the younger generations are actually getting scammed more,

Lyssa: Hmm

Anne Genduso: is kind of opposite of what you've heard before, right?

That you, like, it was like the elderly, you hear a lot about elderly scams.

But I think this one would be another one of those things where people who

don't know better, they might not know that you wouldn't get a fine

through a text or something like that.

It would be very easy to be like, "I have to do this."

Lyssa: It, it's just, it's interesting that we… It's because our generation saw

so many PSAs, and we were, like, the first to be on the internet, we were warned.

my, my mom was so overbearing when it came to, like, you can't get on…

Like, what's an a- what's an IM?

Like, you, you could get sucked into AOL chat rooms.

I think we have a little bit of, we have media literacy or just literacy

with regard to, like, navigating the internet maybe a little bit more

f- than younger people because we assume that younger generations would

just, like, automatically understand.

And that's something that I think about quite often, that the… I think

they say that younger generations can be… Are- Younger and older

generations are most vulnerable.

We were, like, in the sweet spot of

Anne Genduso: Mm-hmm.

Lyssa: being, not trusting everything maybe because we had

Anne Genduso: we were both analog and digital, and like brought up…

Yeah, so you have that kinda like duality, and, it's interesting.

It's so interesting that you say that.

But at the same time, it's funny because the same- you were saying how

like your mom was like, "Be careful of everything." My dad did the same thing.

But at the same time now, like I'm constantly being like, "That's AI, guys.

Don't, don't send me that meme anymore, that's AI." And to the point

where my parents are like so over me talking about it because they're

like, "I know it's AI, but look at this cute little kitten dancing."

Lyssa: Yeah, my mom definitely, she has, she has been on websites and do you know

how, like, it's like an automated, like, these random ass generated, you won't

believe what your gut looks like, or you won't believe what so-and-so looks like.

And I, I have had to say as, you know, had to warn her, like, "Ignore those," because

they're, they're not AI necessarily, but they're just, you know, trash.

They're not real.

They're not part of the… They're just ads that a legitimate

news site sold, you know?

Anne Genduso: Yep.

Yep.

All right, well, for this one, I actually have a couple of

updates that this person wrote.

So if you

Lyssa: Yes

Anne Genduso: that with you, or if you're on the edge of your seat.

Lyssa: Yes

Anne Genduso: All right, so first one, smallish update.

Just to clarify based on one comment, I'm not a senior, just an anxious,

mentally ill, and gullible 30-year-old who should have known better.

I ended up filing a fraud report through the FTC.

However, my hope of anything happening has drained since posting

this and trying to do more research.

ended up reaching out to my mom early this morning, just word

vomiting everything that happened.

don't reach out to my family as much as I want to-- as much as I want because I

try to prove that I'm able to take care of things myself, and I never wanna come

off as a mooch or a freely-- freeloader.

I also was too embarrassed to tell my friends about all this, especially 'cause

I skipped out on plans to hang out with them because of all of this, and telling

the real reason just made me sick.

To my surprise, my mom was incredibly supportive and understanding

and really helped calm me down when I started to spiral again.

She talked me through everything and helped me try to take away some of

the responsibility of guilt I have.

My angel of a mother offered a loan to help recover some of my loss so

this thing doesn't sting as much.

by a miracle I'm able to get anything back, the plan was to

reimburse mom, but she's just happy to make sure I'm taken care of.

My poor partner is even looking into a second job for sake of helping me

recover from this, which as an aside, this must have been a pretty hefty

Lyssa: know.

Like,

Anne Genduso: that this person

Lyssa: right

Anne Genduso: Yeah.

I already told him if he wants to get a second job to have more money come in,

then of course that's fine, but not to do that for the sake of me and my mistake.

I have a full-time job, and luckily they didn't take all of my money, and I'm still

going to be able to continue with my plans to move into my new apartment this month.

The budget might just be a little tighter than anticipated, but hey ho.

Wait a minute.

You know what?

This makes me wonder now that I'm reading this more if it's not just like you had

to pay a fine, if this one was one of the ones that was able to tap into their bank

Lyssa: Their account, yeah

Anne Genduso: account.

That's what I'm thinking.

Yeah.

Lyssa: Oh, that sucks so bad

Anne Genduso: scams can take so many different forms, you never know.

Lyssa: The, it's just like the embarrassment that they, they were

so embarrassed that they didn't wanna hang out with their friends.

Like, it, it resonates.

I would be so mortified and isolate myself because especially if your identity is

wrapped up into being responsible and mature and, that's kind of how, personally

I, people in my life I think they see me.

And if, and if I fell victim to one of the, like a mistake like

that, just it would be an identity crisis on top of everything else.

Ugh.

Anne Genduso: Oh my God, you nailed it.

It, 'cause it really does, if you, you see yourself as responsible, as smart,

as intelligent, as educated, as, as savvy and not a victim, all of a sudden, if

you think about like, "Whoa, I fell for this," it just, it, it messes with you.

Lyssa: spiral, a shame spiral.

And then you're questioning every decision you make, which

Anne Genduso: know

Lyssa: be good if you need to be more, like, scrupulous, but it's

also, it just makes you, y- again, your confidence just so low.

Ugh

Anne Genduso: Absolutely.

and then they had a second update.

I'm just gonna kinda like skip down a little bit.

"My mom told my dad everything that happened, and he was so

upset that this happened to me.

They sent money to cover what I lost to my ba- main bank account.

My dad is also insisting that if my efforts of disputing the charges

on my credit cards is unsuccessful, that he will reimburse what I lost.

I literally cried at my office desk, and my partner got emotional as well.

know not every scam story has a happy-ish ending, but this was a

pleasant and gracious surprise.

never been in a position like this, and I'm usually pretty responsible,"

Lyssa, "for my bills and finances, and I'm never the kind of person to ask

for money, so this was very emotional and overwhelming for me." and then they

go on to, like, thank people and thank the community they found on Reddit.

So you were spot on, Lyssa, about the whole responsible and,

Lyssa: like, it's as if I wrote that

Anne Genduso: Well, you know, honestly, that's probably how I'd be feeling too.

I mean, I'd be devastated and feel-- I'd be beating myself up over and over again.

So I, I feel like I'm so glad that this person took the time to wr-write

this on Reddit, and the hope here too, with Nothing Felt Wrong, is

to create a community where we know that none of us are immune.

It's not your fault.

You were highly manipulated, leveraging authority, fear, all

of these things that can happen, and we'll get through it together

Lyssa: Hmm.

I hope that eventually you'll be able to, maybe someone you could talk to, talk to

these individuals if they discover that they have been featured on your podcast

Anne Genduso: I know.

I, well, I would love that if, if someone would feel comfortable enough

to come on to the podcast and talk too.

Absolutely.

Lyssa: Mm. I hate that.

I,

Anne Genduso: meant?

Or

Lyssa: yeah, yeah.

No, to talk a- to talk about it, like,

Anne Genduso: Yeah.

Lyssa: ugh

Anne Genduso: Ugh.

All right.

So let's move on to the next one, and they're not all gonna be,

like, typical scams too, right?

'Cause we're talking about any kind of deception or manipulation that where you

feel like, again, your confidence is gone.

So this one's a little different.

It's called Conned By An Ex. It's by Reddit user Cautious_Toe_5255.

Told you these names are awesome.

this is titled The Con Gets Conned, and the tag it's under is nuclear revenge.

Lyssa: Oh, God.

Anne Genduso: So that'll tell you where we're going on this one.

All right.

So, "I got married when I was 19 years old to a man I met in

California when I lived there.

We weren't doing financially well, as he basically stopped working the minute

we were married, but somehow remained going to the gym and doing all these

things we couldn't possibly pay for.

Always had money somehow, basically.

was young and dumb and figured he was getting stuff for free because he was

a bodybuilder and had lots of friends.

Maybe he had money saved," "et cetera."

Lyssa: I love where this is going

" Anne Genduso: Fast-forward a year, we move back to Texas where my family

is because we can't pay rent or anything and need to live with my mom.

Turns out he was cheating on me and getting money from chicks and

cons, cons he was pulling with women, like a movie or some shit.

Eventually, I leave him, we had our own place at this time, when I

find out, and we never speak again.

But here's where it gets spicy.

the years, he disappeared, took forever to get divorced because he faked his death.

This fool message, messages me on Facebook about five years ago but won't show

his face in any videos, but I know it's actually him from his voice and body.

It's very recognizable.

Talks about how he wants to meet up and pay me back the money he stole from me.

He stole, like, 20K from my college fund and cleaned out all

my accounts before he disappeared.

He also took my car, defaulted on the apartment we rented, gave my dog away,

and sold all my furniture." What?

And you see her face.

If you guys could see Lyssa's face, for the audio listeners,

you'd, you might wanna pop over to YouTube to check that out.

Lyssa: Dog

Anne Genduso: A dog and all the furniture.

Yep.

So now I'm long married to someone else, and it's been

20 years or so at this point.

I tell him, "That sounds great," and deep dive where he's living by

gathering information from the videos.

I find his mother and get in contact with her under the guise

that I'm trying to help him find his way as he wants to be forgiven.

All the while, I know he's trying to pull another con on me.

Then I call ICE.

He was British and never got his citizenship here and hated England.

Never wanted to go back.

Anywho, I knew he was into some sh-shady shit and told them how he faked his death

and turned over evidence that he was a con and admitted he was, et cetera.

So I guess he was put on a watch list of sorts, and when he tried to get

back over the border from a trip to Mexico to pick up steroids, he was

detained and deported back to England.

So yeah, I conned the con man and ruined his life.

I don't feel bad, not one single bit

Lyssa: Whoa!

I, th- there are so many shocking details, and like, you know, not a fan of ICE, but

Anne Genduso: Right.

Lyssa: in

Anne Genduso: Right

Lyssa: what a way to employ them.

Okay.

Anne Genduso: like just swirling, right?

Too many things to like what do you react to first?

Lyssa: The nerve, the audacity of this person.

I also, as you know, like, to a fault, I am overly empathetic, and my first,

quite often, you know, I know we want to focus on the victims here,

but my… I- I'm kind of like, well, what's happened, what happened in th-

the, his per- his life that caused him to… Like, what is that hurt?

What is that pain?

Anne Genduso: Right,

Lyssa: don't ha- we can't dwell on it because, you know, we're

not gonna, we're not gonna focus on them, but what a… Jesus.

Like, the bodybuilding, like, it being a, like a gigolo, it sounds like that's

what he was, like a bodybuilding gigolo.

Amazing.

Like, what type of reputation did he have within that community?

Because not that I'm, like, close to that community, but I'm like,

I know some people who are in that community and it's like a…

Yeah, b- bodybuilding, not gigolos.

and like the fact that his demise, like the poetry of him going

over, hi- him going to Mexico to get steroids is just like…

Anne Genduso: Right?

It, like, I know normally and typically I'm not a revenge

Lyssa: Yeah

Anne Genduso: Like, and, and again, you know, like, we're like, "Oh,

ice. Okay." But it was a little bit of poetic justice here, wasn't it?

Lyssa: Very much so

Anne Genduso: that he was about to con her again.

Like

Lyssa: W- it's, it's real- now talk about sh- they have the confidence

to, and were prepared for the next, like they learned the lesson from the

time before, so like good for them.

Good for, what was it?

Cautious, Cautious Toe?

Anne Genduso: Watch us toe

Lyssa: good for the cautious.

Good for them.

Anne Genduso: Mm-hmm.

Lyssa: and, and the sweetness of his demise happening where he's probably

the weakest, which is his vanity, like, couldn't be, it couldn't be

wrapped up more neatly in a bow

Anne Genduso: Right

Lyssa: But the monstrous, the monstrous nature of him giving

away, of getting rid of the dog

Anne Genduso: Right?

I mean, like, we heard 20K, we heard the furniture.

As soon as we heard the dog, we're like, "What?"

Lyssa: Like,

Anne Genduso: Yeah,

Lyssa: s-

Anne Genduso: cold

Lyssa: yes, fraudulent con man person, money, couch, I could forgive, but

like you've, you have, you have entered a, like, monster territory

Now I need to know, the dog needs to write in a Reddit forum what happened.

What happened to the dog?

Anne Genduso: I know, I know.

And then the other thing that really gets me is I wanna know

how old he was because she

Lyssa: 19

Anne Genduso: 19, correct.

Lyssa: Yeah

Anne Genduso: makes me wonder how old he

Lyssa: Yeah

Anne Genduso: Like, was there some sort of like, again, power differential

here that was into play, which I wouldn't be surprised by at all.

I, I don't know.

It might not be, but it's the first thing that comes to my

mind is like, was he taking

Lyssa: Mm-hmm.

Anne Genduso: younger person who put all their trust in him?

Lyssa: I mean, it sounds like that was his MO to, but to marry, like,

I'm kind of curious too where, like, in order for one to fake their own

death, what other, what other, like W- w- what was, what was the full list?

What… Give me the receipt of everything he did to everyone, because in order

to go to such drastic measures and, and pretend like you're de- like, that is a,

that is a very complicated web to weave

Anne Genduso: Absolutely.

Like, and not to mention, like, we know he didn't wanna be deported, and that

was part of why he faked his death.

But could also, like… It, it… She said it took her

forever to get divorced, right?

So, like, is this an individual who's going on and marrying

Lyssa: other, yes.

Other, other families, other lives.

Who knows if there are kids involved, who knows how many pets went missing.

Anne Genduso: Right.

And going back to, like, how we say that this could happen, right, where we're all

a decision away, I think age definitely

Lyssa: Mm-hmm

Anne Genduso: in it when this person was 19.

But at the same time, the manipulation playbook that he used

was trust inside relationships.

Like, you believe the people… Like, people wanna believe if they're with

somebody that they've already bestowed trust upon to the point where they got

married, that they wanna be able to trust.

But on the other side of it is the, the youth, and with that sometimes

comes vulnerability, and that's why I was saying I wanna know how old he

Lyssa: Mm-hmm.

Anne Genduso: so, so my question is, at 19, if you're newly married

and you're trying to make it work, are you looking for reasons to

leave or reasons to explain away

Lyssa: totally.

Ex- explain away.

Like, you know, if, if there might be people in her, her life like, "You're too

young," et cetera, it's like, "No, I've got…" Again, if their identity too,

I'm projecting, but if their identity is wrapped up in, "I'm responsible,

I know what I'm doing," and then it's like, "Oh, no, I don't know what I'm

doing," and then having to admit that.

It sounds like, though, I don't know how many years, transpired between nine-

you know, the mar- first being married.

20 years.

Okay.

It s- the- I'm sure there was a lot of, of lows in this person's life, but it sounds

like also 20 years f- this is a long, like a slow burn of a game, a revenge game.

it sounds like they have recovered and their spirit at this stage

of their life has not been taken, has not been, like, weakened.

You know?

Like, that's the part that … That hasn't been killed.

Maybe they, they at some point they did have to battle with that, but,

Anne Genduso: Sure

Lyssa: they're, they're on the other side, and maybe the revenge did help the

Anne Genduso: And they did say they were married again.

So

Lyssa: Yes

Anne Genduso: you know, they did go-- They didn't take it… 'Cause

that, that is always the risk, right?

Like, where you're, you're betrayed in some way, whether or not it's a personal

betrayal or, a financial one or whatever it is, is to then never want to trust

Lyssa: Mm-hmm

Anne Genduso: coming back to that kind of, middle ground, like you're saying,

and I mean, obviously twenty years have passed, this person's forty, so,

Lyssa: Hopefully lots of therapy

Anne Genduso: or around forty.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right?

Anything.

I mean, support system, having, family, hopefully that would understand.

but yeah.

not your fault.

Not your fault.

It's always-- Like, that's what I just wanna do.

I would-- If I could see this person, I'd hug them because I just want them to

Lyssa: Uh-huh

Anne Genduso: that like, oh man, that person really, like,

they knew what they were doing.

This was not an accident.

You don't accidentally give away someone's dog,

Lyssa: No

Anne Genduso: drain an account worth of twenty thousand

dollars for your education.

Like, this was very purposeful, intentional

Lyssa: And I don't know if we've talked about this before, but I have

talked about it with other people that I navigate the world with, without

a lot of cynicism or s- I, I'm kind of pure as I navigate the world.

And luckily, I have my pure, somewhat good-hearted, you know,

nature has not been exploited.

But if you're not, if you're not looking for…

If you're thinking that people are also operating similarly to you, that's when

the blindsided, like, that's when I personally have been blindsided before,

when I'm like, because I wasn't looking at this negatively or with cynicism,

or I didn't think that someone was coming to the table like that too.

I'm thinking that they're like, "Oh, this is, you know, I'm doing this

with good intentions," so I'm assuming that other people are also operating

with good intentions, and they're not.

And I think that's the hardest part to grappling with, like,

oh, there are just, like, really depraved people out in the world.

And

Anne Genduso: Yeah

Lyssa: as like a, like, it, it, it, it also, like, your world identity is shaken.

Or not world identity, your worldview is shaken because it's

like, so people aren't good.

You know, that story we've all been sold, like, m- people are

good, you know, at the core.

There's not good or bad.

Like, there's goodness.

It's like, I don't know about this one, though

Anne Genduso: Yeah.

And see, it's funny 'cause I'm at the opposite where I feel like I just have

a lot of cynicism And I'm just… I come to a… I… Although, although

that has come after years of giving the charitable assumption, right?

And seeing that it's not always that.

But I'd like to think that I've come to a point now where I can

be a little bit of both, right?

Where I can be critical, look at things with a critical lens, but at the same time

give that charitable assumption at first,

Lyssa: Yes.

Yes

Anne Genduso: or for some things, right, until it's been proven otherwise.

And then, and then to know when it's time to, like, bow out or whatever it is.

Remove that situation from my life

Lyssa: Yes.

I think you, you learn that w- with age, I suppose, with maturity.

'Cause I c- I, I see m- I may see myself the same way.

Like, I, I don't even think someone is trying to con me.

I'm not thinking, I'm not thinking anything but how I, you know, I'm… And

then once that happens and it, it makes you go, "Oh, okay," it is a good defense

mechanism, like, that you can clearly establish boundaries once that thing has

happened, and that's not a problem at all.

So it's a, it's wisdom, you know, that you have to gain as you get older.

But I certainly,

Anne Genduso: I

Lyssa: yeah

Anne Genduso: just said it, the defense mechanism.

It's about protecting yourself, but without cocooning yourself, right?

Where you, that so then you don't experience anything.

You don't let anyone in.

Lyssa: Right

Anne Genduso: because yeah, I mean, like, listen, if this was my first

marriage experience, I probably wouldn't let anyone in for a long time.

Lyssa: they didn't, and it's valid and fair

Anne Genduso: Right?

Yep.

Oh, okay.

All right.

So let's move on look at our third story, which is a romance scam.

So more of these fun things.

So this is from Reddit user Angelwuka.

Angelwuka.

I dated, this is the title, I dated a real-life con artist who scammed

me and my family out of over $70,000.

want to help bring awareness to him so others don't fall victim like I did.

I am a registered nurse in the Los Angeles area.

I met a guy on the dating app Hinge who said he was a doctor.

dated for five months.

man is very similar to the guy from Dirty John, and has perfected his scam

by making fake hospital badges, taking selfies in scrubs, and changing the

dates and locations in photos to make them current to whoever he's talking to.

he has some basic medical knowledge to pass as a doctor

in day-to-day conversation.

I'm gonna pause for a second.

Dirty John, did you ever see that, that,

Lyssa: I'm getting that confused with Dr. Death, which is, I think the same,

like they faked their credentials and operated on people, and then they were,

Anne Genduso: Right,

Lyssa: If it's a, it's similar.

Sounds similar

Anne Genduso: I, yeah.

Well, I mean, as we go on, you'll, hear what he's done, and it's

similar in the just, like, identity, ident… Well, I don't know.

It's not identity theft.

What does he do?

He's just hiding his identity

Lyssa: Yeah

Anne Genduso: being something he's not.

as far as I… I don't think Dirty John, like, actually

operated and killed anybody.

But anyway, okay.

So I've since talked to two other women he has dated in

the past and gotten money from.

One was a psychologist.

He left her in $100,000 of debt, the other also was a registered nurse.

Got her to loan him 5K.

tends to target women working in healthcare.

The way he got my dad, who is 80 years old, to lend him money was

through emotional manipulation under the false pretenses that he was going

to open up an urgent care he would place in my name once we got married.

mentioned I'm a nurse and he's a doctor, "doctor" with quotes.

So my dad was really enamored with the idea.

My dad ended up loaning him the money as help for the down payment.

dad believed him and gave him the money.

There's a contract that he signed for a portion of it.

He asked for 30K first, and then another time 20K, and then lastly, 12.5K.

There are only written homemade contracts for the 30 and $20,000.

When I found out that this man was lying about literally everything,

including his profession, he blocked me and stopped responding to me

altogether, leaving me without money.

I want to bring awareness to future potential victims by getting his name,

photo, and Instagram name out there online so that when other women start to get

suspicious like I did, it will show up in a Google search that he's a scammer should

they search any of this information.

This man has been doing this for years, and women keep falling victim.

I don't believe he has a job and makes a living off of scamming

women and their families Ugh.

That's, again, we go back to, like, the, that revenge and, and I get it.

Like, obviously I'm not gonna tell this person to do this.

I would never recommend that simply because then you'd open yourself up to

a whole slew of legal, vulnerabilities, and you don't wanna deal with all

those lawsuits on top of what you lost.

But I get that feeling of being like, "I just wanna plaster his photo out

there so everyone knows who this is."

Lyssa: What ma-

Anne Genduso: get

Lyssa: it made me think about, like, you know how they have the sex

abuser, like, database so you can see

Anne Genduso: Oh.

Lyssa: the sex, sex abusers around your area?

Is, does something like that exist for scammers?

And o- obviously, like, the, it, you can't just randomly accuse someone of something

and they end up on this, in this database.

But

Anne Genduso: Right.

Lyssa: like, an official database where someone's name is on it and

it's like… Because that's what ended up happening with the other

story, I think the Dr. Death one.

Like, they had a reputation.

There, there may have even been, like, criminal cases, and no one…

They had every reason to stop them, if I'm remem- remembering

correctly, but, like, no one did.

Anne Genduso: Mm.

Lyssa: it would actually be really helpful if someone was to create a directory

of convicted fraudsters and scammers

Anne Genduso: That's the hard part though, because a lot of

times these people don't get

Lyssa: They get away

Anne Genduso: they just slip right through.

So is tough.

I mean, I love the idea.

Love it.

I wonder if the FBI has that… I, I'm sure there's internal databases, right,

for law enforcement, but yeah, if there's something that could help protect people,

Lyssa: Because it's also like you're, the reason why they can slip by is

because in many cases it's, you have someone consenting to give them money.

Now, it's ba- it's built on a foundation of lies, but you are, you are g- They're

not stealing money from you necessarily.

They are, they are

Anne Genduso: Right

Lyssa: take- They, you are giving them money.

So like, it's, it is hard to officially put them on some type of list or convict

them, I suppose, because of that.

I don't know.

I'm not a lawyer

Anne Genduso: But, well, it is.

And it's hard for a number of reasons, especially if they change their name,

they change their identity, they

Lyssa: Which faked their death.

Anne Genduso: a… Right?

Fake their death, go to Mexico, like, do all sorts of things.

and then there's also, like, th- these are ind- the last couple of ones we

were reading were individual, scams, but there are networks designed to scam

people for romance scams, and they're not, they're not even in the same country

Lyssa: Mm-hmm.

Anne Genduso: as the people that they're scamming.

And it's completely, eh, it is a, it's a, it's a business.

It's like a

Lyssa: Is that

Anne Genduso: business with a lot of different… Not legit.

Illegitimate business, but it is like a business where you have lots of workers.

So, like, how do you find those people?

but you're right.

This case is so frustrating because, yeah, they signed something.

They said, "Yes, absolutely. Let's do it." It was supposed to be for

something else, and then he just disappeared, that's where the problem is.

But,

Lyssa: it's really interesting that this person feels, again, I'm like, "What

is their background?" That they have enough medical knowledge to, to convince

other people in the medical industry,

Anne Genduso: Mm-hmm.

Lyssa: registered nurse, a psychologist,

Anne Genduso: And

Lyssa: a- and another nurse, that they… Like, how many episodes

of Grey's Anatomy have they…

Like, have they seen every, like, ER, like every medical show, and they

just, like, gleaned language from?

Like, common terminology, or, like, did they grow up in a household of doctors?

Like, I'm so, I'm fascinated by that.

and to target educated

Anne Genduso: Mm-hmm.

Lyssa: Women, I mean, it's, it's, it's really, it's really fascinating.

and oh my goodness,

Anne Genduso: the parents, right?

Lyssa: yeah

Anne Genduso: took from her dad, and that's, where it gets really devastating

is when it's, it's like… And sometimes it's money they don't even have, right?

Like the, I think it was the second person, or was it the third, that he got

them to l- like take a loan out for him.

Like, so it's that predatory environment that it's just, it's so vile.

I ha- I hate that people do this.

but I'm like, how can you sleep at night knowing that

you literally just ruined lives

Lyssa: m- yeah,

Anne Genduso: yeah

Lyssa: multiple people's livelihoods.

W- but it seems like there's always, like, a soft space for them to

land, and that's the part that I struggle with because it's just like,

Anne Genduso: Like a soft space for the

Lyssa: yeah.

It's like on to the next… There's always someone… And this is what's

heartbreaking about all of these stories.

Like, however people are motivated, in this case love, people are out here

just trying to find a partner to love and give their love to and be loved.

And, to take advantage of, of someone who's just in it for that, it's just

like, it's, it's just so heartbreaking.

Because ultimately, most humans, I would imagine, like that's…

We're, we're motivated by love, and,

Anne Genduso: Yep

Lyssa: to be so void of it and to just suck that a- a- out of someone,

it's just like, it's, it's shocking

Anne Genduso: I know, I know.

And this goes back to exactly what we were talking about, that the whole

premise of nothing felt wrong, right?

Is that this could happen to anyone.

Like, these are smart women.

They were successful in their own rights.

I think that is what worked in this scam because he knew just enough, just

enough to get by, and I think probably, I wonder if the healthcare industry, if

it's a, a little bit easier, too, in that these, hours that you keep, they're long.

You might not have to be with the person.

He could be scamming multiple

Lyssa: Mm-hmm.

Anne Genduso: time.

Like, I wonder if that comes into play a little bit more simply

because of the nature of the job.

Like, the nurse may be on a 12-hour shift.

Lyssa: Yeah

Anne Genduso: make herself available all the time.

I mean, she, she was only dating him for five months, and he was able

to infiltrate himself that deeply with not just her, but her father.

And again, c- let's go back to the manipulation playbook here.

It's always about where there's always an emotion attached.

You talked about love, love being one of them.

I think obviously love wouldn't be in place for the father, and so I think

what he did there, even if there's not a deep love, it's, it's about

hope, envisioning a future together.

And then the other tactic he used that was really smart in a diabolical type of

smart way was incremental manipulation.

So i- she said that, you know, the first contract was for this, then it was for

this, and then it was a little bit more.

So, like, if you do something once and you give the 30K but nothing

bad happens, and you're still together, he's not ghosting you, you

automatically trust a little bit more.

'Cause obviously you can't open up an urgent care overnight.

You don't expect to see

Lyssa: Yeah

Anne Genduso: fruits of that 30K instantly.

So it makes it more easy to be like, "Yeah. Oh, no, wait, let me give you

another 20." And, and it was only until he, like, basically exhausted

it till then he went away, and it's that incremental and normalization

of, I think, I can't remember, it was like escalation, right, of everything.

when it's like, oh, you're in so deep, and that's when you're, you realize

that's the moment you're like, "Uh-oh, something's really wrong." And, and I

feel so bad for her 'cause I can't even imagine what that felt like when she

sent that text and didn't get a text back

Lyssa: Just, ugh, it's just heartbreaking.

And,

Anne Genduso: I

Lyssa: and he continues.

Although I do love the cre- like, the part that makes me laugh is the, like,

selfies in front of, medical, like… So

Anne Genduso: Like, my doctors do that all the time.

Lyssa: I,

Anne Genduso: selfies in front of

Lyssa: I volunteer at the hospital, and I'm just thinking

about, like, how I could like

Anne Genduso: Oh

Lyssa: ju- you know, I'm the president of the hospital over here.

Like h- the lie that I could, you know, convince others of.

Anne Genduso: career path

Lyssa: I mean, who knows?

This is the thing that I think about quite often with m- mostly cults, but I am in

marketing, so I do think about, like, how to influence certain behaviors with

certain s- m- mostly, like, for good.

But,

Anne Genduso: Sure

Lyssa: can we imagine tapping into this energy and this,

like, this guy is he's talented.

Can we somehow tap into and redirect that energy into something more positive?

Like, the am- the amount, the amount of things that we could

accomplish in the h- as humans,

Anne Genduso: Yeah.

Lyssa: if only.

If only it was redirected in a, a less damaging way for,

you know, himself and others.

Like, it's too bad

Anne Genduso: about the energy, the time, the everything he did.

And I'd argue that that is what you're doing, right?

And that what other people who are in marketing or communication

and, and working for, like, know, causes or mission-oriented things.

If you think about the manipulation playbook and everything we said,

doesn't have to be for bad.

It, it

Lyssa: Mm-hmm.

Anne Genduso: used.

Like, so, like, let's talk about this particular one.

Hope, opportunity, promise of a better future.

That's what a lot of nonprofits are looking, you know, the,

the way they appeal to people.

And then the incremental escalation, "Oh, you donated $5? How about donate

30 this time?" But it's not evil.

Lyssa: It's not, yeah

Anne Genduso: helping something.

It's not just taking and taking and taking

Lyssa: Yeah.

I wonder what stops someone, you know, from giving away their

life savings to like a nonprofit.

You know, like what, what's

Anne Genduso: Oh my gosh.

Well, I

Lyssa: I guess in churches

Anne Genduso: Oh, yeah.

I

Lyssa: Because that…

Anne Genduso: you went back to, you were talking about cults,

Lyssa: Yeah

Anne Genduso: it's like cults, but like it's a, yeah.

And it can be a, a slippery slope.

It depends on the, the techniques used, though, don't

have to be every five seconds.

Like, if, if a nonprofit is asking for the money, like, yeah, this week and now next

week I'm asking for more and next week, you know, then it can be negative, right?

Because maybe, maybe that isn't the way we wanna do things.

so there is a, a line of ethical responsibility there

Lyssa: Yeah.

I mean, we joked about it at a place that I used to work that it was like we … I-

if you say what is your job honestly?

It's like emotional manipulation.

But for good

Anne Genduso: well, but for good and we're doing positive things out of… And

you're probably actually doing with the

Lyssa: Yes.

Anne Genduso: they're, what they,

Lyssa: Well,

Anne Genduso: say they're gonna do.

Lyssa: I don't know.

I don't know about certain nonprofits I've worked, but

Anne Genduso: Well, some places maybe not, but like, but you

know, to the most part, if as

Lyssa: Yes.

Anne Genduso: you know, they're doing something for good with it, they're not…

Like, this guy did not clearly create any urgent care.

He just left.

Where imagine if he had actually taken that money and opened up an urgent care.

Lyssa: Oh my gosh.

Also who, what individually, who, who opens up an urgent care

indivi-, like is that a thing?

Like I, I would

Anne Genduso: I mean, I don't know, but, like, maybe… I mean,

yeah, doctors have practices.

Can you open up your own practice and… I mean, it seems… It- I don't think

I would've questioned that part of

Lyssa: Hmm

Anne Genduso: would ask you, what point would you have walked away?

What point would you have started to say, "Okay, there's something wrong"?

Lyssa: I have been in a s- the first time money was requested.

Anne Genduso: Hmm

Lyssa: personally have been in a situation where, I … It was … I was very young.

I mean, ear- early 20s.

My friend was in her early 20s too.

We worked in the same office.

And I remember she came to me and asked me for a loan, and I was like, "I love

you as a friend, but this is a line that I am unwilling to cross because

I do not wanna mix, I don't wanna mix personal, our friendship, money." And,

and since then, other … There have been other instances where I've had friends,

colleagues ask for, like, a little loan.

And like, you know, if someone's like, "Hey, can you pay for my

sandwich?" Like, fine with that.

But like, "I just need $50 or $100 to get by or whatever," and I'm like, "Prince,

like, on paper, I love you and would be willing to give you money, but this is a

line that's crossed that's like I can't

If you d- If you …" It just is, like, fraught for complications.

Like, if you don't pay me, I'll resent you, even if it is 50 or 100.

Like, it just … It is something that I have never entered because I

did not feel comfortable at the jump, so I … That I would've been really

… That any money, any request of money

Anne Genduso: Yeah.

You know, you put it, you hit a really good point there too.

I think it's also the mixture of… A- and I know y- you, just being

friends with you personally, do not like to mix the business and personal,

and that's what he did, right?

Like, so he was like, he might not have asked for a loan for himself, 'cause

he, it sounded like he positioned it as like, oh, her name's gonna be on it too.

They're gonna be part

Lyssa: mm-hmm

Anne Genduso: and on it, so it was like a, a business opportunity.

But that can be fraught with a lot of different things too.

You, you don't wanna always go to… I mean, I wouldn't go

into business with my husband.

I love him,

Lyssa: Right.

That's a whole other thing.

Yeah.

It's, yes.

Anne Genduso: right.

And, and I think that's where I probably would've gone- but that's again, my

Lyssa: Yeah

Anne Genduso: boundary, and not everybody has that.

But some people love to… I mean, like there's plenty of family businesses,

Lyssa: Yes

Anne Genduso: and they love that.

But personally, I think that's where I would've, started

asking a lot of questions.

Lyssa: Yeah.

Anne Genduso: to see the schematics.

Lyssa: Yeah

Anne Genduso: plan?

What do you… You know, like all of those questions about like how do you even just

Lyssa: Right

Anne Genduso: 'Cause, 'cause there's a difference between

being a doctor and running,

Lyssa: Yes.

Anne Genduso: your

Lyssa: Yes

Anne Genduso: or your own business, so.

Lyssa: And also to be five months into a relationship and like that's a lot of…

Anne Genduso: Yeah

Lyssa: At the latest, so it could have, th- those conversations might

have been happening very early, but

Anne Genduso: Yeah.

But again, he, he really played… I, I'm not gonna victim

blame at all because, like,

Lyssa: Mm. Mm-mm.

Anne Genduso: sh- and I'm not saying you are, but I know, like,

she, like, if someone presents themselves, you think they're a

Lyssa: You're gonna trust them

Anne Genduso: what they're doing.

They're like, "Oh, hey, come into my world.

I'm creating this amazing thing.

It would be really great for you." Like, it was a cool… It

could be, like, a new career path

Lyssa: Yeah

Anne Genduso: I can see how it could automatically be like, "Ooh,

Lyssa: And like,

Anne Genduso: cool."

Lyssa: let's be real.

W- we ultimately don't fully… I have lived with my husband for as

long as I have, and have been with him for as long as I have, and You,

you really don't know what someone is thinking or spending their time doing.

Like, he and I joke about when he learned that I had Reddit

downloaded on my phone, and he was like, "What do you do on Reddit?"

Anne Genduso: Oh, geez.

Lyssa: And like, 'cause you,

Anne Genduso: Right,

Lyssa: so you just don't know what secrets… And, and I, I think

everyone, like, has earned the right to have secrets, that's fine.

But like, and I don't think everything like… But there's just

so much that we don't know about even people who we are closest to.

And, and, and, and talk about like, that's the part that I have a lot of, I have

a lot of empathy for that because even though, you know, she may have felt like

she knew this person for years, it doesn't matter how long they were together.

Even the, even people who have been together for decades still r- may not

really know what each other are doing, or what their, where their passions are.

I don't know, kinks, whatever it is.

Anne Genduso: Oh, okay.

Lyssa: Whatever.

Anne Genduso: we're talking about.

That's-

Lyssa: That's why I'm on Reddit

Anne Genduso: Oh my gosh.

No, you're right, you're right.

Because, you know, both of th- these, like, examples here

were pretty fast-moving cons.

They, like, happened relatively fast.

But are… I mean, like, I have a friend who was with someone for years, years,

and found out they weren't who they

Lyssa: Mm-hmm

Anne Genduso: were, like, at all, and ended up in divorce, and it was awful,

and very devastating, and very betraying.

but it's like, y- you could be with someone since high school

and not really know what they're

Lyssa: Sure.

Anne Genduso: too.

So,

Lyssa: Yeah, exactly.

Anne Genduso: ah.

Lyssa: And then I have to say to my husband, "I am on Reddit because I'm

looking at these, this ancient cave that only has these, this particular

just, like, strand of…" It was, like, bacteria or bats or something, and he's

like, "What?" Then that sounds like a lie

Anne Genduso: No, it's so fu- it's funny that you say that because my, my child

asked me, they're like, "Why are you on Reddit?" And I'm like, "Because." Because

I'm like, like I am, I guess I'm so naive in where, what I look at on Reddit.

I look at like, I have like Glitch in the Matrix.

I'm looking at like paranormal things.

I'm

Lyssa: Yes.

Anne Genduso: different types of things, just things I

Lyssa: Yeah

Anne Genduso: And, and none of it is like even close to sexually related

Lyssa: No, not at all.

Yeah.

Or, or something skeevy.

Like, it's truly the place where I can find… This podcast

should be sponsored by Reddit.

Anne Genduso: Anyway.

Okay, and I I think that was the last one for today anyway.

But of

Lyssa: Mm.

Anne Genduso: always bring more Reddit stories.

And they don't have to be Reddit, I want them to be your stories too.

So all right.

Thank you, Lyssa.

Thank you for joining.

And all right, side-eyers, I hope you enjoyed today's episode.

And if you did, please make sure to subscribe and like

so you never miss a thing.

let's leave you with this week's side-eye question so you can weigh in.

We know that even the smartest people can get duped, and for

manipulators, it's all about finding that right vulnerability to exploit.

Thinking about these stories, which one stuck with you most?

And which one made you think, "I would've believed that," or,

"That could've happened to me"?

Drop your answer in the comments and let's discuss.

And if you're listening on a podcast app, leaving a rating or review helps

even more side-eyers find the show.

And finally, if you have your own story of deception, scams, or

manipulation, we wanna hear from you.

So email us at stories@nothingfeltwrong.com.

We may feature your story in a future episode, and of course, we'll keep

everything anonymous for legal protection.

Because the more stories we share without shame, the more we erase

the stigma associated with being a victim, and we take away power

from these awful perpetrators.

It can happen to any of us.

Because nothing felt wrong until it did.