When that moment came, we couldn't hear her sing at all.

After a few minutes of silence, the soloist thankfully stepped

in and just started another song.

Later I heard the music for Ave Maria begin right as communion was starting.

She and her husband were supposed to come up for communion with

my parents, my husband, and me.

We had argued about that exact issue for months.

My poor music coordinator was completely flustered and didn't

know what to do because my mother-in-law was standing right

there insisting on singing right then.

So while this is going on, she's like, "I'm singing now."

Oh.

Hey, guys.

Thanks for joining me for another episode of Here Comes the Drama.

I'm your host, Christa Innis.

Today I'm joined by Mary Van Geffen.

She's an international parenting coach for moms of strong-willed kids,

or as she calls them, spicy kids.

Mary's the author of Parenting a Spicy One, and helps parents learn

how to stay calm, kind, and firm while raising spirited children,

even on their hardest days.

She combines her training as a Simplicity Parenting counselor and

professional co-active coach with her own lived experience raising both a

spicy child and a more easygoing one.

Through her coaching programs, d- digital courses, and social media,

she's helped thousands of moms navigate their ups and downs of parenting

with more confidence and connection.

I had so much fun chatting with Mary.

She shares some wedding stories of her own.

We banter, we talk parenting tips, and so much more.

In fact, I think a few, maybe a month ago now, her and I did a skit

of our own, which was a lot of fun.

She is just so much fun to chat with.

I feel like I could talk to her forever.

So without further ado, please enjoy this episode with Mary Hi, Mary

Hi, how are you, Christa?

I'm good.

How are you?

Outstanding.

Leaving for New York City tomorrow morning to go see my adult child.

I can't wait to-

Oh

… walk the streets.

Fun.

Oh my gosh, I love New York City.

That'll be so fun.

I love that.

Well, thank you so much for coming on.

I'm so excited to have you.

many people might know that we did a skit not too long ago.

That was fun.

Oh, it was the, the

fun of my life.

that's all I wanna do is silly character stuff, and you're the first person- Yes

… that has done it with me, so thank you.

I love it.

Your acting debut, and the comments were just like, "Keep doing it, keep doing it."

So you gotta do some more out there.

Like I think it was so fun.

Yeah, that was fun.

I wanna do part two with you.

Yes.

Oh my gosh, we should definitely do that.

That was so fun to put together, and I think just seeing like the characters come

to life, and I hadn't done one like that.

I'd done a couple collab skits, but not one like in depth like that, so I feel

like it worked really well together.

But-

Yeah, and it was interesting to hear that your process is not to look directly in

the camera, and that a- all mine were directly to camera, and there's so many

variations of how people, creators do it.

Yes.

Yes.

I'm constantly learning and trying new things out here as, I guess as we all are.

but before we get into, I mean, there's so many things I could talk to you about,

but tell us a little bit about yourself.

I know you're the, expert on strong-willed, intense, defiant

kids you call spicy ones.

So let's get into what you do, and we'll kind of go from there.

Mm. Yeah, I am the parent coach for the spicy ones.

I'm a spicy one.

My mother was a spicy one, and I raised a spicy one, and I have a, quiz you're

welcome to take if you go to my bio, to find out if you've got one, but

you kind of know when you have one.

These are the kids that are inflexible, highly emotional, treat adults kind of

like equals and can be aggressive and inconsolable, and they're just a lot.

And some of us grew up feeling like we were a lot, and it's not always

common sense how to parent this type of child well because it seems like

we wanna make them smaller and make them fit in, but they end up, spicy

ones, being the world changers and the artists and the activists, but

it's really exhausting parenting them.

So I have a, membership that people join and we coach, three times a month

on Zoom, and then all my classes are in there, and I have a very transformational,

let me say that again, transformational class just for moms of spicy ones

because nobody understands what it's like because about 20% of kids have

a really intense temperament- Mm

and what I would call more loyalty to their own soul than to

what an adult wants, and that's actually not very typ- typical.

Mm. Most kids, kinda wanna go with the flow and they wanna belong,

and this kid does wanna belong, but they ambush, relationships a lot.

Mm-hmm.

So I speak from experience.

Well, so when did you kind of decide that was gonna be your focus

and your life work to be able to help other moms with spicy kids?

I think I've always felt a little bit different, and have had tension with my

own mother she has said before, like, "My job is to knock you down a few pegs.

There's only one queen in this house." You know, we were just constantly-

Mm … going at it, and I didn't want that kind of relationship with my

daughter, and I saw it start to develop.

Mm. And meanwhile, I have a very mild child son, and the differences

between them, it was interesting to see that a lot of it is just, like,

how somebody comes out the womb.

Some of it can be trauma, some of it can be neurodivergence.

Mm. But there is a distinct different, and a different way of being a leader

with those people, and a different way of communicating that doesn't

sort of raise up their hackles and make them feel more demand avoidant.

Mm-hmm.

My poor husband, he's learning those as we go.

But, I realized it, I think mostly when I had a child and thought, I found myself

telling someone, like, "I don't really like her. I love her." Mm. "But I don't

like this kid. They seem to always be, nothing is easy with this kid, and they're

so bossy, and they're so demanding."

And it ended up that I was using a lot of phrases that had been used about me-

Mm … because was all I knew, and I was sort of continuing a generational

wound, and I wanted to stop it.

And so I first dragged her to therapy and wanted a diagnosis for her.

Must be something wrong with her, like, give me some letters.

Mm. I'll take ODD, I'll take PDA, ASD, I don't care.

Well, it ended up that therapist said, " Why don't you come back, next

week without her?" And I was like, "Oh, yeah, so you can tell me what a

psychopath I And we didn't talk about her, we talked about me, and we talked

about my little person inside me.

And I kept going back week after week, and my daughter never went back to therapy,

and there's nothing wrong with her.

She's a spicy one, and so am I. Mm. And so that sort of brought me on this

journey, and then I've been on the internet since 2011, talking about it.

And, got my coaching certification both with Simplicity Parenting and

with, Co-Active Professional Coaching.

But mostly it's like the school of, working individually with so many women.

I saw the same ways that we were ambushing ourselves, and our victim

mentality, and, and the way that we were communicating that was

actually creating power struggles.

And so it was just kinda cool.

After, about the 100th coaching, person, you know, it'd be like an eight-week

session, I created a course, and then 1,700 people have gone through

that course, and it's changed them.

And then now I have a membership where you can take that course, and meet with me.

Because sometimes we just need somebody else to bounce off our issue,

because a lot of moms are saying- are thinking at least, "Is it me

or is it my kid that's causing all this combustion- Mm-hmm … and this

emotional, and am I not firm enough?

Am I too firm?

Why am I walking on eggshells?" And I just have a lot of heart for that

parent. and also there's so much judgment. That's why when we did our-

Mm-hmm … sketch, I could access immediately that, clutching of pearls of,

"Oh my gosh, you let your child do that?

I would never." It's like, well it's not letting them do it, it's being very

precise about what I'm willing to, like, stand on, business about, and what I let

go ' cause it doesn't actually matter.

It might matter a little bit to the culture.

Mm-hmm.

But when you have a counter-cultural kid, you gotta make some different

decisions and really operate out of what matters to you and your value system.

You can't please other people.

Mm, I love that.

and I feel like you said a lot about I feel like when you become a parent

in general, they talk about how a lot of your traumas come up or things that

you never dealt with as a child, or things really trigger you in new ways.

And so we don't always know until we're in that situation of how we're gonna

respond, and then we're like, " Wait, I did sound like my mother." Or you

know, like, oh, I said something that was kinda like locked back here, and

you're like, " Wait, is that how I wanna respond?" Or, and I always hear the

thing, like, they're not giving you a hard time, they're having a hard time.

So I try to like res- like repeat those in my head, during those challenging moments.

So I don't know if I would say I have a spicy… She's spicy at times, for sure.

But, um- Well,

every two-year-old is spicy in my opinion.

And every teenager is, because their job is to individuate and separate from

you and find their sense of self, and that's very spicy when you like to have

control and you like to have a say.

and you want a lot of communication and validation, and they're not

gonna give you that in those ages.

Yeah.

And so how can parents, like, I know you said there's a quiz they can take.

So for the parents listening right now, and they're in that zone of

they're like, I'm having a lot of challenges with my child," what's,

a small exercise or something that a parent can do to kinda look inward to

move forward and kind of maybe parent themselves better in this moment?

Yeah, and those might be two different directions, right?

Because they're both important.

how you show up for your kid, and then there's also, how are

you gonna show up for yourself?

Mm-hmm.

And slowing things down a little bit and putting your hand on your heart

or your belly and asking yourself, like, " What do I need right now?

How am I doing?" Like, treating yourself like a friend or someone

you're in charge of caring for, because you are, that's really important.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that shifts things.

You're a different parent when you've started the interaction with checking

in with what you need, or you've started the day by brushing your own

teeth and getting dressed and feeling good about, that you've been sort of

done the bare basics of self-care.

Like, that's important.

The other sort of avenue is how you interact with them, and I think

you can improve the way you show up and the way you lead with becoming

the calmest person in the room.

Mm-hmm.

And so often we're taking our cues from this really volatile kid, or we're

taking things they say personally, and the goal is to become a person that

just lets how they behave not impact how you show up, ' cause they're gonna

have their really bad days and their good days, but who do you want to be?

And I think a small little step towards that is just a pause, and I call it a

conscious pause, but any parenting coach or educator- Mm-hmm … is gonna talk

about delaying your response, the time between your response and what they did

that really irritated you, like expanding the time in between those two things.

Mm-hmm.

And delaying, don't just act.

There's no sense of emergency, even though your body often tells you there is.

I mean, unless there's a car coming for them or, there's, rarely is parenting

an emergency, but our body is, like, sending us all these signals that it is.

Mm-hmm.

So pausing and giving your brain a chance to catch up with what's

happening and to be in your, prefrontal cortex rather than back here in your

brain stem that speaks in verbs and says, "Hit, stop, run," you know?

Mm-hmm.

That's not the part we can parent out of.

The only way to get into our calm self when we've been triggered or, like, our

blood pressure goes up, is to pause, to extend the time before we react.

Mm, I love that.

I feel like especially, we talk about, like, toddlers and parenting, it's like

that deep breath or, stepping aside out of the room can, like, make such a

difference, and I've learned to, like, also say, out loud to my daughter, like,

" Mommy just needs a moment," and I'll, step out and I'll take a deep breath.

And I've noticed, too, when she'll get frustrated, she'll

now be like she'll take a breath.

And I think, us kind of, showing that, like, "Hey, we're going through something

right now. We need a minute, and it's okay." but one thing I wanted to ask,

too, so we were kind of talking before how this podcast really started with, wedding

stories and event stories, and turned into very, like, relationship dynamics, right?

And so something you said made me think about unsolicited advice, and

especially being a parent of a spicy one, if you're out and they're having

a tantrum or they don't wanna listen.

How do you, not you personally, but as a parent listening, how do you

respond to unsolicited advice or stares or judgment from other people?

moms in general deal with so much judgment, right?

Mm-hmm,

yeah.

But especially, Having a child that's maybe a little more strong-willed,

Yeah, who's having a, like, an antisocial tirade-

Mm

… in Target, and maybe they're too big to lift up out, and you know you have

to sit there while they freak out.

so first off, knowing the relationship you have with that person who's trying to give

their two cents or their judging glare, if they aren't someone who's going to

be in your life and is in a relationship that you want to nurture, you really

don't owe that person anything, other than keep them safe, and they're safe even

though your kid's making a lot of sound.

And this whole society is just not built for children, and it would be a gentler,

warmer, I think safer place if it were a little more, okay for kids to be kids.

So I just think that's number one, is be aware that this

person is not in your life.

and yet it does hurt when someone rolls their eyes or

makes a little snide comment.

And so I literally have to visualize almost, a golden bubble around me

and my kid, and it is positivity and light in here, and if anybody

else feels differently, like, their judgment can't get into that bubble.

Like, it just- Mm-hmm … helps me to have a visualization of that.

You may have some phrases that you s- have ready to say.

Like, if someone's like, "Wow, I would never let my kid act that way," you can

say, "Well, I'm so glad he's not yours, then." Um, you you can have some things

that you like to say, but I don't- Mm-hmm … think it does anything to respond.

but if you're a spicy one, you probably wanna respond, right?

Like, you want justice.

that's a big part of being a spicy one, is this sense that you

can, impact and, create justice.

you're working so hard to not take what your kid does personally, There's a lot of

people who see you allowing emotion, which is so silly, 'cause you don't allow it.

Like, you can either stuff it under or- it's gonna happen.

But when they see you making a compassionate space for that,

it can sometimes trigger other people who never got that.

Mm. "I, nobody ever listened to me. I got smacked if I acted…" And out, up

comes almost like a survival mechanism of, like, if what I'm seeing in front

of me- I long for and wish that I had had that, then that makes a lot of my

childhood wrong, and that means… it's so existential, I think, for people.

if we can just know that, they're having their own experience about your kid,

or maybe they are highly sensitive, and they're just covering their ears

or making a pained face because they literally just can't handle excess sound.

Well, that's up to them to get to a space that's private, go

sit in their car or whatever.

it's not your responsibility to protect other people from your child

when the thing that's happening is a loud sound or distress.

Yes, our whole society needs to have more tolerance for other people's distress.

I think there'd be a lot less fights and war and nastiness if that were the case.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, 100%.

I love that.

I think that's such a great point about- you kind of putting that, golden

bubble, like you said, around the two of you, because I think it's so

easy, especially as moms, especially walking into motherhood just feeling

like, "Okay, there's all these eyes on me now," or, "Oh, if they cry…"

Like, you're not used to that, right?

Before you're a parent, you're just kind of like, get by, do what you

need to do, but you're not gonna just scream out in public, right?

And so you're not used to all these eyes on you, so I feel like that's such a good

point, just focusing on, like, your goal is to take care of your child right now.

Ignore the judgment around you.

and I think what you said is so powerful about it's usually their own,

like you said, their own traumas or their own kind of thing they might be

dealing with that they never had the chance to, or maybe, they don't have

that relationship with their parents, so they're like, "Oh, what's this?

Why is this so, like… Why are you having a conversation with them?

this is not how I was raised." And you see that on social- It's a- … media too.

Yeah, it's a little bit like, I happen to be Christian.

I'm not trying to get all spiritual on you, but, there's that whole

image of Jesus washing people's feet, and that was, like, disgusting

in that time because people- Mm

were wearing strappy sandals walking through the dust and the dirt, and it

was like, ew, why is he doing that?

And I think it's a little bit like when we kneel down and we take a careful

moment to exhale, and we let go of the fact that, oh, my gosh, I'm not gonna

be able to get in and out of this store.

but this is happening, so I'm not gonna fight this, and we just sort

of sink into it, and we take a non-threatening pose with our child.

I think it's healing for people to see that and be like, wow,

she's almost valuing that child like they're a fellow human.

and I think it leaves people a little changed.

I remember early in my mothering, like, seeing people talk softly

to a child who was acting ugly, as my mother would've said it, right?

Mm. And being like, oh, wow, there's a different way.

We can stay tender even when we're disappointed.

it's a skill a lot of people don't have.

Yes.

Yeah, I think that's amazing.

I think that's one thing that- We do keep doing, like, better as parents as we kind

of, learn is like, okay, I didn't like how this happened when I was a child.

Not necessarily it was good or bad, but it didn't work for me, and so this is how I

want to change the next generation or this is how I want to handle this situation.

that's something I see a lot is like getting down on their level and talking

to them is like, " Okay, well these are your two choices," or You can do this

or this," or, If we do this, then it's gonna lead to B." But I just think-

Yeah, but also when they are beside themselves and freaking

out, the less words the better.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, they can't take it in.

They are flooded.

Mm-hmm.

So I do see that this generation has left behind hitting, which

is awesome, and spanking.

I mean not everyone's left it behind, but I think modern parents, know

that's not developmentally appropriate to use violence to discipline.

But now they're doing a lot of over talking.

what's being received in that moment when your child is freaking out is

really like a mammal to mammal thing.

Like- how's your body?

Does it look non-threatening?

Are you calm are your eyebrows way high and your teeth, clenched?

And what is your mammal body communicating to your child's mammal body?

That's most important.

And so kind of less talk and more I'm gonna hold space for this.

I'm gonna allow this.

I'm not gonna rush through this.

Mm-hmm.

I don't have to like it, and I don't have to try to talk my kid out of it, 'cause it

doesn't, it rarely works with a spicy one.

Mm. And so you said it can sometimes be linked to neurodivergence,

but that's not always the case?

Yeah, I would say 30% of people who would say, "Oh yeah, I've got a spicy one based

on my quiz" would also say, "And we have a diagnosis." But the rest are just-

Mm-hmm … Enneagram eights if you're into the Enneagram, or, I'm a four, but

it's just a type of temperament that has a lot of discontent and, can see the

glass half full, child who's just louder.

Sometimes we have a voice box where we come into a room and, my husband walked in

just now and was like, " Oh my gosh, what a day." he got, like, within a couple feet

from me and I'm like, "You're screaming." Now, I wish I would say it in a nicer way.

I'm still working on that.

But that doesn't mean someone's neurodivergent.

That said, like, the work I have in my book, Parenting A Spicy One,

or in my membership, I always want you to do it concurrently with

going and pursuing a diagnosis.

If you have an inkling in your mama heart, a, kind of a knowing that something's

off, then definitely double path that.

But whether or not your kid has a diagnosis has nothing to do with

the work you need to do to, show up for your inner child and for

them in a way that you're proud of.

Mm-hmm.

And then do you think, too, like, the parent-child relationship also, let's

say the parent's and the child is not, but can that cause- More, uh, riff is

the wrong word, but can almost make the child seem more spicy because maybe human-

Yes, you are so smart.

Yeah.

And it's not even about neurodivergence.

I would say, okay, I'm not gonna put a number to it.

There are many women that come to me talking about their spicy one, but

if I had their spicy one at my house, I'd be like, "This kid's a dream. This

kid's a go with the flow." But mama has some things she's working through.

Mm. Maybe she has a high need for control.

Mm. Maybe she is addicted to peace and didn't consider how chaotic

having a child is, or maybe she's got some, some childhood wounding, right?

Mm-hmm.

And so sometimes our kid is just sort of the accumulating event and we

start by making them wrong and saying, "Something's gotta be wrong with them,"

and that was kind of my situation.

I happen to be neurodivergent.

My kid is not.

at the time, I thought I was just ADHD.

I've since gotten an autistic, diagnosis.

Mm-hmm.

So my daughter's now 21, and she came home for Thanksgiving, and she was

standing across the kitchen aisle excited and telling a story, and I was

like, "Can you take it down a notch?"

And this, my husband was like, "She doesn't need to take down a notch,"

and I'm like, "He's right." Mm-hmm.

Here I am.

I wrote the book on parenting a spicy one, and I'm still on some level overstimulated

just by the, chaos of people in my home.

And so I could turn that around and say something's wrong with

my daughter, but it's really me.

I now wear loop earphones when everyone's h- there.

I can still hear.

it's a little more tampered down, and it doesn't feel so jarring.

Yeah, I saw this meme the other day that said something about, like, "Oh, I'm so

overwhelmed," and it's literally just two people text me at the same time.

And I was like- So true … "Oh my gosh, that's so me," 'cause I can go from, like,

I'll be, very focused, and I'm like, good.

then all of a sudden I'll, it'll be, like, three things I'm trying to do at

once, and I'm like, "Whoa," and then my child's, like, running through talking.

I'm like, "Oh my gosh, what is going on here?"

Right.

Like, one thing needs to stop.

Yeah.

so I'm like, I,

I- One thing that's really helped me, I've known I had ADHD since I was 30, and I'm

55 now, but one thing I recently read was ADHD, you focus on what's interesting.

And neurotypicals focus on what's important.

And I was like, dang- Yeah … that's so true.

That's why so much is not getting done around me, because it's the

things that make dopamine, that give me interest, that are novelty,

that I'm all in on and make happen.

and that was just kind of helpful for me, that dichotomy.

Wow.

I've never been officially diagnosed but, it runs in the family, so

I'm pretty sure I'm, like, ADHD.

But when you said that, I'm

like, oh, yeah Well, I think there's something pretty neurodivergent

about putting a microphone to your mouth- … or putting your face,

doing silly things on the internet.

I think that's a neurodivergent trait, and I think- I think so … w-

everyone's like, gosh, everyone on the internet is talking about ADHD.

Well, I think it's a certain type of person that feels comfortable enough

to get on there and gets certain needs met, d- I don't think it's

a very neurotypical thing to do.

It's why all your friends are like, "Oh, I could never." You

know, it's like, well, yeah.

one person once said to me, "Your autism makes you not have a creative block,"

and they defined creative block as, like, you're worried what other people

will think about what you're doing.

But I'm kind of oblivious to the fact that what I'm doing is kind of

weird, because I'm just not really aware of that and I don't care.

And that-

Mm-hmm

… in some ways allows me to create a little more, with more freedom.

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah, I know.

It's, interesting, too.

I think, when I tell people, I'll say something about being introverted or

being, like, kind of shy, and people are like, "What? no you're not. you

post stuff on the internet." I'm like, but I'm in the privacy of my own

home when I do it, and I don't think about the fact that people see it.

Even though I see numbers, I'm just not, like, I don't know,

to me, I'm just- It doesn't feel

real.

Yeah.

It doesn't feel real.

It doesn't- Yeah … like, I don't see them over there.

So that's a very interesting take.

kind of getting back to, I know we kind of made, like, a s-

switch there, but of switching back to your book- Welcome to me.

Yeah, I know.

80 conversations over here, just popping over the place.

But I just- Yeah … loved what you said about, like, we follow

what's interesting, not important.

' Cause I to hate when I would have bosses that would say, This is a

priority," and then two minutes later, they'd tell me another priority.

And I'm like, what's the priority?

Right.

And then I was like- Priority's

supposed to be one thing.

Yes.

Couldn't do it.

so what do you think the biggest mindset shift parents can make if

they're raising a strong-willed child?

I know we kind of talked about some different things, But what's

something that comes to mind if they're kind of in that tight spot?

Well, I think two things come to mind.

One is a lot of times when we have a strong-willed, spicy one, we kind of

stop liking them- Mm-hmm … because they cause so many challenges.

There's so much we're working on at once with them, so many lagging

skills and, ways that we wish they would more, be, more cooperative.

And so I think it's really important to shift your mind to,

what do you like about this kid?

What is good about them?

I've had countless women in my office where they wanna tell

me how awful this kid is, and I let them unburden a little bit-

Mm-hmm … 'cause it is a lot to hold.

And then I say, "So what do you like about this child?"

And then they start to tear up as they talk about it, but it's

almost like we don't let ourselves go there because there's so much

work to do and we feel responsible.

And so it's really important, like, make yourself a note in your phone

with, their name, and any time you think of something about them that

makes you smile or that's already okay, the parts of their temperament.

In fact, if, in my book Parenting a Spicy One, if you take off the cover,

the whole thing is just a list of all the positives of a strong-willed kid- Mm. Mm

… because I think we get separated from it.

So that's an important… this is going to be a future CEO.

This is gonna be somebody who changes the world, and of course

they're not easy to parent.

So liking them is a huge shift.

And then the other shift is, I think we get in this mode

of, how do I discipline them?

How do I change them?

How do I improve them?

And none of that can be done outside of a relationship.

Mm.

And so the most important thing you can do is connect with them before

you correct, before you direct.

And what does that look like?

a connection is, we're both making eye contact, if this kid

is able to make eye contact.

We have a soft, expression.

our body is, relaxed.

Maybe there's laughter and a smile.

you need a lot of that throughout the day in order to have the, emotional

credit to then say, "Hey, don't do that," or, "We're gonna do this."

Like, you've gotta a moment and get into their world because

they're sort of, The pace of childhood it's like being on drugs.

you're playing with water and looking at the droplets, and someone saying, "Mom,

Mom, Mom, Mom, Mom," which is- Come get ready," but you're not hearing that.

You're so in what you're doing.

So take a moment and enter their world.

Take a beat, 30 seconds.

Like, I am amazed watching moms pick up their kids sometimes, how you'll

be on the phone while picking up that kid, and it's like, "Let's go,

let's go. Come over." and that kid is gonna have huge, meltdowns because

they need that moment of reconnecting and reestablishing that paper-thin

attachment that just needs to…

And that even happens when they wake up.

When they wake up, there's been a separation.

It's time to connect first.

when they go to sleep and they're really resisting it, that's sort of, they're

worried about the disconnection that's about to happen, a separation anxiety.

Anyway, so connect- Mm

before you direct.

Love that.

and I love what you said about like finding the positives too of like what

you like about your child as well.

I don't know if it's a way of like how people connect, but

I feel like they always say negatives first, just in general.

Like, think about when your kid turns two and they're like, "Oh, terrible twos."

I had some people say that when my daughter was turning two,

like, "Oh, terrible twos." And I would quickly correct them.

I'd be like, "No, terrific twos. It's the terrific twos." Aw.

And we loved, when she was two.

It was great.

And-

Yeah

I'm not saying that's gonna obviously solve, problems and stuff, but it really

is like a mind shift of being like, no, it's terrific because you know what?

They're at this new stage, and they're learning things.

But people are so- Well,

you're also bringing up the point that women, we tend to, be very

wary of seeming like we're bragging.

Mm. And, we put ourselves down to seem safe to other women, and I

think some of that happens as moms when it's like, "How's so-and-so?"

" Ugh.

Well, let me tell you." Like, we wanna connect, and we don't

wanna seem, like we're bragging.

And, uh, the spicy one needs you to brag because there's so many people

like that do not appreciate them.

Often their own teacher.

So- Taking a moment, especially the overheard brag where your

kid can hear you saying, "Can I tell you what my kid did today?"

Totally set the table.

Put everything, and put the forks and the knives.

Like, make a big deal of what is positive.

Mm-hmm.

And maybe have a conversation with your girlfriend.

Like, can we talk about what's good about our kids?

I need a space to practice doing that.

Same with our husbands.

Like- I was raised by a woman who has a lot of contempt

for, her husband, my father.

Mm. it's a way of connecting where she'll be like, "Ugh, let me tell you what your

father did." And then I hear myself doing that a little bit- Mm-hmm … and I wanna

be my husband's biggest cheerleader.

Like- Mm-hmm … that's the kind of relationships we want, but we sort

of get in these lazy habits of, it's almost like gossip where we share what's

negative about the people we love, that's a habit we gotta put the kibosh on.

Yes, yes.

I so agree with that.

I feel like you don't wanna sound like, braggy.

we want to, like, humble ourselves in a way, and it's, whether it's talking about

ourselves, our kids, or our partners, I remember I was talking to someone once,

and I was like, "Oh, yeah, my husband does most of the cooking." in my head later,

I'm like, did I sound like I was bragging?

and then I'm like, oh, 'cause I'm a crappy cooker.

You I'm like, do I need to turn around to, these self-deprecating.

You know-

Well-

… you feel like you have

to

you're right.

the other side of it is, you're trying to be intimate with a new friend, and

you're like, " Yeah, I'm just really sad about this thing." and then they come

back and like, " Everything's great for me," and you kind of feel like, oh, I

don't know if I'm close to this person.

Yes … they're never vulnerable with me.

So it's so hard to work on female friendships.

So hard.

I get you, right.

No, totally.

so for people that get your book, again, it's named Parenting a Spicy

One, what can they expect out of it?

What kind of exercises?

What does it kind of take them through?

it takes them, like the first four chapters don't have

a lot to do with your kid.

I mean, it does take you through sort of their temperament and that,

but really we do a lot of inner work, and both talking about what

does your inner voice say to you?

Like, do you have a critical inner voice or do you have one that's positive?

And a lot of us don't have a positive one so we've gotta rebuild it.

So there's even like a, test in there of which kind of negative voice, I want

you to have an inner best friend and a lot of people have an inner mean girl.

Mm-hmm.

And so we'll work on that.

And then eventually we start getting to like here are the, ways that you can alter

your leadership and your communication style to increase cooperation.

And then there's some like tricky chapters that I needed which is like what do

you do when the, meltdown is violent?

Mm-hmm.

Nobody talks about that so there's a whole chapter on that.

What do you do when your husband or your partner is not on board with d-

sort of a respectful kind of parenting?

Mm. And they're making things even worse?

W- and that's a chapter.

And then another chapter is what do you, the judgment that comes from

other people, how do you respond?

And there's a bunch of scripts in there.

Mm. And then the other one that I think's important is how do you protect the

mild-child sibling- Mm … from what's going on with the spicy one who takes

a lot of the oxygen out of the family?

Mm. Okay, awesome.

I love that.

And where can people find your book?

Anywhere books are sold.

if you like my voice I did the Audible.

Oh, cool.

So if you wanna hear me while driving.

I love that.

Okay, I'm gonna check it out.

I definitely have to read it.

I love a good coaching book and I feel like I can never Get

enough, like, parenting advice.

I love, just learning from- But

it's also overwhelming to have so, so many people in our feed giving us advice.

Mm-hmm.

And so I hope when you read this, there's a chapter called Teaching Life Skills to a

Hellion, and I had to fight to say hellion because my, publisher was like, "I don't

know. Is that a bad word?" No, it's not.

you will find that I'm trying to help you in this book figure out what your values

are, what's important to you, not what's important to me, 'cause there, I might

really prize, independence while you're prizing a community, and neither is wrong.

But knowing your values, and there's a list of 200 of them, as part of the book.

Knowing what you value helps you, like, step off a lot of, arguments you would

normally get in with your kid, and then you realize, "Wait a second, this

doesn't matter to me much as this." Like, kinda knowing what your non-negotiables

are, like, when you need to be firm and when you can be more flexible.

Mm. All right, cool.

Love that.

Awesome.

okay, let's switch over a little bit, little bit of topic here,

over to some wedding drama.

You said you had- Wedding drama … a wedding story of your

own you would like to share, so-

Oh, yes … let's

have at

it.

Well, since this is dedicated to weddings, I, was asked to marry- this man.

And, we were heading towards the big day, and it was starting to not feel

right, and I kinda realized that the night he had proposed to me, I said to

myself, "Well, Mary, it's about time.

You've, been with a lot of different kinds of guys, and you've lived large, and this

guy, look at him, he really loves you.

Like, I don't think you're gonna get any better than this.

You should just do it."

Hmm.

And it was two weeks before the big day, and I called my mom

and I said, "I made a mistake.

I don't wanna marry this man.

I don't love him that way." And she said, "Well, tough titties, because

we have sent out the invitations.

They are out.

It's at the yacht club.

You are gonna go through with this, and then whatever you do

on the other side is up to you."

That's my story.

And I did not stay married to that man, but we did go have that big wedding.

And, now I'm on my second and final, marriage, and we've been together

22 years, and everything worked out.

But If my daughter calls the day of the wedding and is like, It's not the

right…" I'm gonna let her pull out.

Yeah.

You'd be like, "I'll be right there," because the work then to not do it.

it's wild the number of stories I've heard where they're like, " I had a gut

feeling, and I still went through with it, and then we ended up divorced."

Or I was in a wedding once where she was in the car, I'm trying to think of

this, before the rehearsal crying to us.

And at the bachelorette party she was cry- And I was like, "You don't have to

do this." Like, "It's okay," and- Oh,

you did say that?

Yeah.

We all said, "It's okay if you don't wanna have to do it."

And she was like, "Vendors have already been paid. We're doing

it." And they got divorced, like I wanna say two years later I mean,

it felt a little bit like an execution where it's like everyone's

waiting, the stage has already been set- Yeah … the noose is, up.

Yeah, that's tough.

Wow.

yeah, you have to go, through with it.

And then to know-

And in our society There's so many movies where someone's like, "Baby,

you just have cold feet." Yes.

" That's totally normal." And so we don't trust ourselves.

I mean, maybe, I would love to know if, from all your interviews cold feet

is a part of really good marriages, but I was totally sure my second time.

one of my favorite movies is Runaway Bride- Mm … because I feel like she

made the right decision even though it was at the last minute many times.

Love

that movie.

yes, I still vividly remember seeing that movie in theaters.

it's funny you bring up the cold feet thing because, yes, I

remember growing up always hearing like, "Oh, you get cold feet.

You get so nervous." And they had the bag that you're like, "Okay." You know?

Like, "Oh, it's nervous. Just go." And like and a- again, I

don't know, everyone's different, but like I didn't have any of

those nerves on my wedding day.

But then again, we also lived together for many years, so I wasn't like, " Oh,

this is a new person that we're gonna live together for the first time."

I was just like, "All right.

Cool.

It's next, this next chapter.

Let's, party.

Let's hang out." Like, it's the next step.

But also, like if… I would think an introvert would be more likely

to get cold feet because it's, you basically- Totally … have to go on a

stage and, be the center of attention.

I could see that c- giving you pause.

Yeah.

But if you're like, "I'm not sure this is the right guy," then trust it.

Yeah.

Well, see, that's… It's weird.

That's where like introversion's so confusing to me, but it's like

especially if it's in a room of people that I know and love, I

don't feel introverted by that.

It's like getting up on a stage where I don't know people, I'd be like shaking.

and I feel like my inner voice is very like judgey of myself.

I'll talk to someone- Mm … and then I like leave or get in my car and I'm like,

" Why did I say that?" Or, "Oh, my gosh.

What?" Like- You could do a- … "I'm so weird."

You could do a skit on that.

That's a good one.

Yeah.

I'll be the inner voice.

I'll wear a brunette w- wig and be like, "What were you thinking?

They must think you're so weird."

Yeah.

why would you wear that?

Why would you say that?

it's like when you go to the movie and they're like, "Enjoy your

movie," and you're like, "You too."

And I'm like, "Ugh. Why?" Mm.

Yes.

that's my life.

All right.

Let's get into this week's story submission that someone had sent me.

okay, so as always, you can stop me if you want, or we'll kind of just react

as we go, and let's see what happens.

This one's pretty short, so I do have a second one as, backup

if it's a little too short.

Okay, here we go.

When we were planning our wedding, my husband's mother insisted on

singing Ave Maria during the ceremony.

Oh, she insisted on s- okay.

Okay.

Wow.

that starts off strong.

Wow.

Making it about her.

Yeah.

I've heard a lot of parents demanding to like give a speech

at a wedding, but to sing is-

Well, and to choose that song, which is hyper religious, I guess Catholic, right?

I was raised Catholic.

very operatic.

Like it's a whole vibe.

Mm-hmm.

You don't get to choose that vibe.

Right

and I wonder if, was it at the wedding or was it at the party later?

I guess it would have to be the wedding, right?

Right.

Oh, man.

Yeah, and what part?

Is this like after or before exchanging vows, and it's just this dramatic moment?

Like-

I mean, that says so much about what the relationship's gonna be like.

the centering of her having her moment.

that's not your moment to have.

I think sometimes a mother-in-law is the first person that a woman

learns to set boundaries with.

And like you have to speak up.

People can't read your mind.

So she says- Mm-hmm … she insisted, did anybody say, "No, that won't work for us"?

what does that mean by she insisted?

did she just say, "I wanna do this," and they both were too

scared to say anything else?

I don't know.

Right, and they just like built it into the ceremony.

Yeah.

All right, let's see.

her entire large family, seven siblings, had her sing at all of their weddings.

So it's like a tradition it sounds like.

My husband is the second youngest, and there's a 20-year age gap

between him and his oldest sibling.

Okay.

I didn't like my soon-to-be mother-in-law, and she clearly didn't like me.

She even told my mother the night before the wedding that

she knew we'd get divorced.

I would not be having someone like that sing at my wedding.

That's like having somebody come and, do a hex.

Mm.

Like having a, bad fairy come, put their juju all over the thing.

That's awful.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

anyway, she may have had a nice voice many years ago, but she was now in her

60s at that time, and her voice was definitely not what it had used to be.

After many discussions and arguments with my soon-to-be husband, I agreed to let

her sing during the part of the Catholic service when my little cousins would be

bringing up the gifts of wine and water.

So it caused so many arguments, which makes me think the husband

said yes and she said no.

Yeah.

I feel like after one no, they should've just been like,

"Okay, we're not doing it."

But it sounds like the husband kept pushing and being like, "Well, she

really wants to sing even though she doesn't like you and thinks

we'll get divorced," which…

Wow.

Okay, so they let her sing.

When that moment came, we couldn't hear her sing at all.

After a few minutes of silence, the soloist thankfully stepped

in and just started another song.

Okay.

Like the microphone wasn't working, I wonder?

yeah, I guess so.

Maybe the microphone didn't work or she was like way too quiet or something

Later I heard the music for Ave Maria begin right as communion was starting.

She and her husband were supposed to come up for communion with

my parents, my husband, and me.

We had argued about that exact issue for months.

My poor music coordinator was completely flustered and didn't

know what to do because my mother-in-law was standing right

there insisting on singing right then.

So while this is going on, she's like, "I'm singing now."

this fact that it's during the ceremony when you're like, there's so many people

here watching and, this is going on Yeah.

And probably half the group kinda knows the situation a little bit.

Yes.

You know whose fault this is?

Uh- I believe it is the, groom's

I

would say that

because it is the, son's responsibility to set boundaries with his mother.

It is not… Like, he set his wife up to fail, making her have

to even be in this communication.

Like, he should have gone personally and been like, " No,

Mom, it's not gonna work for her."

Mm-hmm.

Even if you blame her, he should be the one setting the boundary.

100% agree.

They should have never even, like, gone back and forth on it.

if the fiancé that wrote this in said no, that's it.

I just only feel like it should have been discussed this so long, and he should

have been putting his foot down, for sure.

Yeah.

It reminds me of the sketch you did about the sisters that

wanted to be in the wedding.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And just constantly, like, pushing and pushing.

it's wild.

She got her moment after all, walking up the aisle and receiving communion

after everyone else was seated.

I swear she smirked at me.

She had pretended to agree with everything at the rehearsal but clearly had no

intention of honoring our wishes.

On top of that, my husband had 15 nieces and nephews under the age of 12, and

we had agreed to a child-free wedding.

Some of his siblings tried for months to change our minds, but we held firm.

Well, several of them showed up with their children anyway.

We had no seats for them, no meals ordered.

They weren't well-behaved and caused distractions all night, and we were

still charged for eight extra plates.

My husband and I were paying for the entire wedding ourselves.

The reception was at a lakeside resort that had a separate

bar from the event space.

While we were out taking photos, his family went to that bar and told the staff

to put everything on our tab, my God,

even though we already had an open bar at the reception.

We ended up with a bar bill in the thousands on top of reception cost.

Again, we were young.

We were just starting our careers while they were all well-established, and not

one person offered to help cover the bill.

And to top it all off, my husband was a graphic artist just starting his career,

so I was pay- paying for everything.

He mooched off me for 30 years- … before I finally- Oh … kicked him to the curb.

Here we go.

Oh.

That was the clincher at the end.

Okay.

Did not

see that coming.

'Cause this is…

It was like a rotten beginning, and it never got better.

So it was doomed from the start- Mm-hmm what do I always

say so many times on this?

If the husband or the partner does not stand up for you right away when

there's some kind of, like, issue with maybe family or something, I

don't think they're ever going to.

And so this just shows then he mooched off her for 30 years.

I don't know what that, necessarily that means, but-

this could be, like, a generational thing, but I agree that they need

to stand up for you, but I don't know if they have the skills yet.

Is it okay that, your relationship is so important to them that it's the first

time they've had to stand up to their mom?

I hear a lot of folks your age that are like, I don't need to teach a man how

to be a good partner." But- Mm … you do learn so much as you're together.

Like, do you think it's okay fir- his first glance is like, "Oh, I don't

wanna talk to her about this," and then you explain to him, like, "No, it's

going to be crucial that throughout this relationship for me to maintain

a relationship with your mom that you are the one who sets the boundaries."

Like, what do you think about that?

Yeah, no, I agree.

I feel like it is the first time, and that's… I actually just had Dr.

Tracy, on the podcast, and she kinda talked… One of her books was about

mother-in-laws, and she d- basically said, it's basically the first time that

a person has to distinguish between, their past family and the family dynamic

that was there and now his new family.

And she basically said that, if there's, like, a mother-in-law like this, maybe

she's a controlling mother-in-law, so she has to have everything her way, and maybe

he was a more passive son and was very like, " Just do whatever Mom says." And

so yeah, it puts him in this position of like, well, Mom's have, wants it this way.

you're just my new fiancé, but, Mom is over here, you know?

And so yeah, I feel like it's a difficult position to be in, From the outside, I can

be like, oh, he needs to just tell her no.

But yeah, I'm sure it's, like, way more-

Well, it's interesting.

Now I'm on the other side.

have a son.

He's 19, and our relationship is very sweet and affectionate, and it,

will have to change to make space for someone else to be his primary person.

Mm-hmm.

And there is a loss to that.

Mm-hmm.

It's not up to the bride to, like, help the mom through it.

f- the mother-in-law, you gotta go find your own friends and talk

through- this kid that you nursed is now not that available to you

because they have a new family.

Yes- Mm-hmm … there's loss to it, but yeah.

so did she say anything else after the mooching part?

she kicked him to the curb and it says, "Shame on me."

Mm. So yeah, that's how it ended.

So that's like how the wild story kinda started, was all these things that just

kinda were building up and went wrong.

I mean, like you said, it starts off with the mom insisting on singing, not taking

no for an answer, and then even after they make all these discussions of, like, we're

gonna let you sing during this part only," she just does it her own way anyway.

So it just sounds like a mom that's like, "I'm gonna have it my way.

I'm not willing to negotiate."

And that means, she raised him with that same sort of me, me, me focus-

Mm-hmm

… which would make him kind of emotionally stunted.

she's probably always been, like, about her own, comfort and- that he couldn't

be the partner that she would need.

And I always wonder, when you have some wild mother-in-law like that, does she

have a girl gang that she goes back to and says, " She tried to not let

me sing at her wedding, so I got her.

I went and sang later, right in the middle of communion.

I got that bitch." Like, does she have people that are, cheering

her on and think that's great?

And, like, is she in some kind of weird echo chamber?

Yeah.

Like, I just can't think of any woman I know that would be like,

"That's awesome." we would all, like, wince and be like- Like, no.

Ew … " Ew, that's sort of toxic."

Yes.

I know.

I wonder about ;that too.

it's gotta be, like, either if she is telling someone the story,

she's changing certain things.

it's that, like, the toxic daughter-in-law, or she's maybe

changing the story a little bit.

Yeah … and I feel like that's what I try to do, like, in my

skits too, is show, people, like, there's a nuance to everything.

Because one time someone commented on a story and they were like, " Well,

you're only getting one side."

And I was like, "Well, of course I'm only getting one side," 'cause that's how a

story works, that someone sends me their story, and, I take it as much as I can.

I'll twist some things and I make it more dramatic maybe.

Yeah.

But that's part of it.

if we saw it maybe from the mom's perspective, maybe there was, an

argument that happened and the daughter-in-law said something.

We don't know, right?

We need some Boomer lady to start making her sketches that are,

like, attacking the daughter.

That's so true, and, the best books to me, or the best movies, don't just,

like, follow everybody- Mm-hmm … and you get everybody's perspective, unless

it's, like, one of those ones where it completely shifts and each chapter

is, like, from the perspective- Right

of a different person.

Yeah.

But I don't think those are great stories, the ones where the, narrator's

just kind of following… Like, you wouldn't know how that person's

feeling, and then this person.

So I totally- Mm-hmm … appreciate that you're focused on kind

of one person is the hero.

Yeah.

and I feel like, too, I'm sure, there were some different things going on.

but I think where we do agree too is about the fiancé does at least, where he's

not gonna stop all drama from happening.

You know, p- the mom's the mom and the fiancé's her fiancé, right?

But I think he needs to be, like, a bridge be like, "Okay, I'm gonna be

protecting my new fiancé," maybe.

Mm-hmm.

and say, like, "Okay, we don't want this together," and s- kind of speak for them.

And I think maybe- Yeah … that's where the communication was kinda

like, maybe he'd say one thing to his fiancé and then he'd be on the phone

with his mom and be like, "Oh yeah- Oh … I'll convince her," you know?

That's where I kinda see it.

Yes.

That's what happened.

He was playing both sides.

"Oh, I'll talk to her. Yeah. she'll be fine." And, that's one

thing too, when I was talking to, the therapist that came on.

She was basically like- It's hard for them to, fully play one side,

unless they're like, you know, I'm kinda like stumbling on my words.

It's

hard for a therapist, like in couples therapy you mean?

No, I'm sorry.

I meant like the husband to be able to like- pick,

you

know, pick one side because it's like he's been told his whole life,

"Okay, this is your mom, let's just let Mom have her way," and then, you

you go to the, his new fiancé- Yeah,

but it like- You know, it's just like- In a, in a functional

family, nobody's telling my son, "Just let your mom have her way.

She's gonna make things pretty…" Like, that's not a functional, healthy- way

to, for everybody to be communicating.

So it's like if this has deep roots, if this has been going on where the child has

had to kinda kowtow to whatever the mom wants even as he became an adult, like-

Mm-hmm.

Yeah … no good.

No good.

Yeah.

I know, and it makes me wonder if, she sang at all the other siblings'

weddings, did she tell them?

Or, you know, "Hey, I'm singing at your wedding," or do they actually want

her to sing at their weddings as well?

that'd be

interesting.

Also, like if you grow up and somebody's been saying, "I can't

wait to sing at your wedding," you don't really know any different.

you're like, "Oh, that's just part of how our family… This is our tradition

in our family." it reminds me that I have a friend who's like, "Oh, I

told my child, like if I ever get dementia or become incapacitated like

my mother, like immediately put me in a home." And I was like, "Oh, really?

'Cause I tell my kids, 'Immediately let me live with you.

I wanna live with you.

I will pay for it.'" And I think that's probably toxic.

Somebody needs to talk me out of it.

But I feel like I don't wanna go live in a weird institution and wear

paper nightgowns and have people not check on me and, waste away.

Like- Ugh.

"Let me just use my life savings and be in your back room and

we'll pay for a nurse," but-

Mm-hmm

I gotta probably get over that.

I think that might be the last elements of toxicity in me because-

… they gotta have their own life.

They can't be taking care of me.

Yeah, but don't… aren't there studies where like live longer and do better

when you're with your family versus

For sure.

Yeah.

and I think in other non-Western cultures, there's so much more reverence

for the older generation and there's multi-generations that live together.

Here- Right … we're so like hyper independent.

I know.

I do see that a lot of times it's like way more multi-generational

homes, whereas here it's like, okay, you're kicked out at 18.

You live on your own and pay your own bills and-

Yeah … um- And 18 is so arbitrary.

Yes.

Like, it's a random, legal number.

Like, it doesn't mean that… Obviously we all know your brain keeps

needing to develop until you're 26, and I think with… I mean, we're

totally getting off topic here.

But with, the way the economy is, there's gonna be a lot of people

with kids moving back in- Mm

and we need to figure out- how to do that in a healthy way, because

economically I think people are gonna have to be able to do that.

Totally.

And I've seen more and more, maybe it's just coming up on my feed, but women g-

maybe like mid to late 20s, some even early 30s are like, "I still live at

home because I lost my job and I had to do this." and I think letting go of that

pressure, I'm not saying everyone needs to do it or should do it, I know that

would not have worked well for me and my family, you know, everyone's different.

But, letting go of the pressure of like you have to be out and

have your job, like as soon as you graduate college or high school.

Like, everyone has their own path and kind of, see what works,

I'm so torn because I also think if you don't communicate that like, "Okay,

once you're done college you're on your own," if it feels like, "Oh, I

can just come back"- Yeah … I know several adult children that have kind

of wasted away in their mom's basement because there wasn't that, there was no

bottom, I think sometimes the kindest love can, I'm talking out of both

sides of my mouth, I'm aware of that.

But- … the kindest love can be like, " You're gonna have to figure it out,

and I believe you can figure it out."

Yeah.

But I don't know if that's the same now that wages and lodging don't add up.

we've got a lot of uncharted territory we're headed in- Mm-hmm

where it hasn't been like this before.

Yeah.

There's a shift, yeah, it's like when I was going to college that

was kind of like a thing you did.

You just like, you went away- Right … and then you moved back home for a little

bit, but I was home for maybe a year before I moved in with my now husband.

But, I don't know.

It's, very different how things are working What were we talking about again?

I don't know.

I love- If

you cut all this out I'll be pissed.

No, it's all, it's all staying in.

I love just seeing where conversations go.

that was definitely an interesting one.

I've heard of people demanding to like play an instrument before

or give a speech at weddings.

This was the first time I've heard someone demanding to sing at a

wedding, so very interesting.

And interesting that the mother-in-law did, predict what was gonna happen,

but it was 30 years down the road and-

Yeah, that doesn't count by the way.

She was wrong.

Yes.

All right.

I always like to end these with some confessions that people send me.

okay.

A moment you felt overwhelmed at your own wedding or someone else's.

Let's see.

This says, "To be honest, just walking into a room full of people staring,"

like we were kind of just talking about.

When guests kept asking me different questions." I don't

know what that would mean.

Maybe during, like, wedding planning or something.

Oh, no, I hate that when people are like, "Oh, where should I put this?"

Or, like, I can't even handle that.

I'm having a dinner party and there's, six guests and someone's like, "Oh, I brought

this thing," and it, has several steps.

I'm like, "No, girl, I did not prepare for that. You're on your own. I hope

you can find something to put that in."

Best of luck to you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I remember just being very, unbothered on my wedding day.

I need to, like, make my rounds as quickly as I can.

I had only one person luckily bring up grandkids and I was like, "Okay,

I'm out. I gotta go." Like, why are we bringing up grandkids on a wedding day?

Yeah, just be here on this day, for goodness sakes.

Yes.

Like, "Oh, we have grandkids soon?" I'm like, "Okay." Uh-

I think there's so many things that people say that are just what people say.

Like, they don't know what to say, so they're like, "Oh, this is the

thing I ask about next." This is the

thing I say.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

I've noticed this now, like, I have one daughter, but, when I see someone

else with their baby they'll be like, "Oh, do you have baby fever?

You gonna have another one?" And I'm like-

Yeah

… uh, no.

I don't know.

Also, my fertility is none of your business.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's just a lot of things that are left over, like

nice-isms that aren't that nice.

Like, "Oh, you got a handful there," like you said, the terrible twos.

There's just these phrases that I think we need to interrogate a little bit and

wonder why we say them, and just I think it does help for people to have scripts.

Like, if you go to someone's wedding, what are some things that would be

appropriate to say to the bride when you're not really sure what to say?

Mm-hmm.

"Oh, there was so much love in that service," or- Mm-hmm … "I am so honored

to be here, a part of this huge day," or,

I can see that you guys treat each other so well.

You're gonna have such a beautiful marriage." Like, Maybe prepare

your crap ahead of time so you- Yeah … don't say something so dumb.

I love that.

Yes.

this says, When everyone needed something from me at once," and that's

why you hire a day coordinator or designate one of your bridal party

as that, your point of contact, because no one should be bothering the

bride or groom on their wedding day.

There is a lot of power in telling a friend, "Hey, would you be the person

that does this or is your…" First off, it makes introverts or people who

don't know anyone feel like they have a real reason and a sort of a position

of influence, and that feels good.

Mm-hmm.

And just t- having a little thing, like I've had events where I'm like, "Could

you be the person in charge of a drink?

I don't care what the drink is, But I'm doing all this other stuff.

Would you bring a drink?" And then they bring, like, and it's just amazing. Or,

" Would you be the person that notices when the charcuterie goes low?" I think people

really like to have- Mm-hmm … that, ask, and it takes it off your shoulders.

Yes.

When I'm at a party and I don't know anybody, I love a good task.

Give me a task.

You want me to watch the dessert table and refill it?

I will make sure there's no empty spot.

Like, give me a task, please.

Okay.

Well, thank you so much for coming on.

and just let me know, like, where anyone can find your book,

anything fun you're working on.

The best way to kinda work with me is to try a month of Moms A Spicy

Ones Academy, where we, get together three times a month if you want.

It's kinda like having dark chocolate in your bra drawer.

There's a private Instagram, feed.

It's there when you need it, but it's not something you have to

do, and then all these classes.

I've got a class called Getting Calm, Kind Class, Firm Class, and then the Deep Work

curriculum that, is really powerful for figuring out the kind of mom you wanna be.

So that's the best way to work with me, and then of course on

Instagram I'm constantly putting dumb, posts out every day.

Awesome.

Well, thank you so much, and it was great having you on.

Oh, I loved being here.

Bye, everybody.