02_Online - dub011 - Awin Podcast Mini-series Margate Day 2 - Tanyka & Olivia Davson - (16-9) - V6_1.txt
English (UK)

00:00:00.160 — 00:00:08.720 · Speaker 1
You have to be annoying. You have to be persistent. You have to potentially be unhinged at times to really get your message heard and get that, you know, be seen.

00:00:23.480 — 00:02:56.000 · Speaker 1
Is. We like to call it the early days for moms and dads. So we help new and expecting parents from as early as eight weeks into their pregnancy, all the way through to 18 months postpartum. Save money across everything they need to buy on parental leave. So often when people think of a parent, they think of the baby in the car seat.

But actually, you know, the parent is much broader than that. They're a human with, um, hobbies and habits. And, um, we're dedicated to helping them save money during an incredibly special and incredibly expensive time. Um, so, yeah, that's what cubby does. And then in terms of Tanika and I, we're sisters.

Um, and I focus on onboarding brands. We now have over 350 brands on our platform. And I also look at the tech and I'll let Tanika. Yeah. So I focus on marketing and user engagement. So really building that community of new parents, we're not just a straight discount platform, but we're a place where parents can discover new brands as they're shopping in new ways when they've got a new baby in their lives.

Um, and also, yeah, that engagement piece. So our newsletters, our social media, our blogs and really engaging our community and sharing what's new. We started building cubby when my youngest, my oldest, sorry, was eight weeks old. Okay. In that moment, I actually was struggling to adapt to motherhood and and the transition.

It was such a huge shock to my system. Lack of sleep was really real and I found myself, as I say, struggling to adapt to that role. And a big part of that was, you know, the identity crisis and shift that people always talk about. So, you know, feeling guilty about buying a cup of coffee and the things I used to do to make myself feel like Olivia, a pair of jeans, for example, all of that contributed to that feeling of, um, you know, of of of loss of something while you've also welcomed something.

Um, and I felt brands were missing a trick. You know, the brands had been so loyal to for so long. We're nowhere to be found and incredibly emotional and sort of valuable moment for brands. Um, and I thought, you know, you switched on your TV, every advert you see as brands trying to reach parents. So there was a moment where I realised there's a gap.

Brands want to reach this audience and parents want to be to be reached. And so that's why we will copy. Yeah. Yeah. We've got to tell them about the name. Oh, yes. Then the name. So, um, my, my little boys, I like to call them my little bear cubs. So, um, we call them, we call it cubby. And, um, our logo is actually.

I designed it during a night feed, so I obviously up at night, I couldn't stop thinking about this crazy idea, and it's, um, it's actually like a bear's nose. So that's kind of the concept for the name.

00:02:56.040 — 00:03:06.130 · Speaker 2
I've been like a pair of myself for two relatively young kids as well. Um, do you think there's a lot of parallels to the experiences of, like, the sleepless nights, the anxiety as to being like a co-founder of a new business as well. Right.

00:03:06.170 — 00:03:09.930 · Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. So it's a double whammy. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

00:03:10.050 — 00:03:25.130 · Speaker 3
Olivia always says as well like that. I'm not a mom. Um, but that that experience of motherhood gave you that fearlessness to be like. I'm just gonna do it. I think this should exist, and, like, I'm just going to do it. Whereas I'm not sure you would have had that level of yeah, drive before.

00:03:25.170 — 00:03:52.170 · Speaker 1
Yeah. My, my experience of motherhood was genuinely the hardest thing I've ever done. You know, I've had a long corporate career. I've worked in brands like Amazon, McLaren, Deliveroo, and nothing has ever been as hard as that transition to motherhood for me personally. So I feel like that really unlocked a superpower.

And I felt like if I can do this, I can do absolutely anything. And I think that definitely, um, you know, unlock something in me.

00:03:52.210 — 00:03:54.210 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

00:03:54.370 — 00:05:20.290 · Speaker 3
There's one moment that Olivia and I now laugh about quite a lot. Um, and it was actually our first opportunity To pitch cubby, so we went along to some kind of pitch event. We got through to the final, and we had to stand in front of an audience and pitch. Um, and we thought we nailed it, to be honest. And then we sat down and someone said to us, was that your first pitch?

Um, so clearly didn't land in the way that maybe we wanted it to. And I remember following that as well. We got a lot of advice from a lot of people that when you're starting out early, you think that because they're so experienced, they must know more than you and you. You end up kind of like chasing some tails in lots of different directions.

Um, and yeah, I don't know if there was like a huge moment of failure there, but it was really about number one, like learning to tell our story and understanding that not everyone is going to get us and not we aren't for everyone, but our target group does. And so as long as we can learn to tell our story in the most effective way, we've kind of got to cut out the rest of the noise.

Like we also had, um, I won't say the name of them, but like, quite a significant entrepreneur. Tell us that cubbies a bad idea. Let's start a magazine instead. And I was like, hmm. Luckily, that came at a point where I trusted myself a bit more. But yeah, um. I'm not. I think that already exists. Yeah. So. Yeah.

And. Yeah. So I think we definitely learned to maybe stop chasing all of the feedback so much.

00:05:20.410 — 00:05:40.370 · Speaker 2
I wanted to ask you a bit about that whole experience, actually, because it is such a high profile platform in which you're pitching to these big, big kind of business people. What was that like? And, you know, you talked about that particular conversation or interaction. What's it like to go in there and to to be interrogated and question about the very premise of the thing that you've got a vision for and you really, truly believe in?

00:05:40.410 — 00:06:33.890 · Speaker 1
Well, I think Tanaka's example of our first time pitching is a great one, because, you know, those types of setbacks enabled us to really refine our message. And so we were able to sort of win in a really big moment that counter. So that that definitely helped. Um, I also was nine months pregnant, and I had I had my second son a week after filming.

And I think there's this, like innate feeling of your body just has different priorities. I, I wasn't even able to kind of be nervous or anxious because I was just so focussed on making it to the actual day. Um, I think that helped me massively. Um, and as Tanika says, like we know our users and we went in there light-hearted.

Um, you know, we're so open to feedback. We're so open to a great conversation and a great chat. And that's the approach we've taken in our business. And I think that that really helped. Um, so yeah.

00:06:33.930 — 00:07:18.290 · Speaker 3
We were also really early when we went on Dragon's Den. We had been around for like a year, and we were so, so early. And so we kind of just used it as an opportunity to be like, how? Like when are we going to sit in front of five really successful people and get their feedback again? So yeah, we didn't really expect much out of it.

We were just hoping to get some good direction from people that had done it before. Um, and obviously the exposure from it is great as well. But um, yeah, as I say, we we had got to the point five by the time we filmed in the den that we did understand our audience and we had validated, um, our vision. Um, and so we were quite clear on what we were doing and why we were doing it.

00:07:18.290 — 00:07:30.050 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, it was the biggest lesson. Do you think that you took away from that experience of doing Dragon's Den and coming out the side of it with obviously success investment, having like an entrepreneur founder kind of like get involved in helping you.

00:07:30.170 — 00:07:56.090 · Speaker 1
Yeah, I think it's helped us massively in terms of the confidence piece. We spoke about our journey with pitching. We've now pitched on obviously probably the biggest stage you can imagine. So that helps us, you know, now, um, continue to tell our story can continue to build on that. And, and also it helps our users because they know, um, you know, that copy is a real thing.

It's not a mirage. It's not an illusion. It's not something, you know.

00:07:56.530 — 00:08:00.170 · Speaker 2
Things that you might not have, like going out on your own in some ways.

00:08:00.450 — 00:08:35.570 · Speaker 3
We are the things who we work with. So not only who we have in our business or who we have invest in us, but also the brands that we work with. We're very strong in our vision of like what we want Cubbie to be and who we will and won't work with. So we've said no to other investors because the alignment isn't there.

We've said no to other brands because it just doesn't fit with what we want to promote to our audience. Um, and so that yeah, that confidence to be like, that's not for us. Yeah. Um, even though it may make lots of money or whatever, it's not where we're going. So yeah, we've been quite strong in that.

00:08:36.010 — 00:08:50.770 · Speaker 2
You spoke about like that whole experience of, um, pitching, public pitching, presenting, being one where, you know, you felt like there was a setback there that you kind of weren't expecting you. What about you? Was there any other kind of like, instances that kind of really stand out in terms of like.

00:08:50.810 — 00:10:07.060 · Speaker 1
I think so. So when I came up with the idea, obviously, as I said, I was eight weeks postpartum and I remember the moment I had the idea screaming baby on my shoulder, I was walking into a coffee shop and I spent like £5 on a coffee. When, you know, Statutory Maternity pays half the national living wage. Um, and I walked out feeling really deflated and very unseen.

I shared the idea of Tanika. Um, she immediately got got the concept. And so, probably naively, I thought everyone will get the concept. So we got to work building the app, and and my job was to onboard brands, and I think I contacted probably a thousand brands at the time. And, um, most of them probably ignored me.

Some of them said, we'll see what happens. And in the end, we launched with 30 brands. And I felt quite deflated. And maybe this was not going to be what I thought it should be. And then a very close friend who I've made through this journey in the affiliate industry has reminded me, you know, you have to be annoying, you have to be persistent.

You have to potentially be unhinged at times to really get your message heard and get that, you know, be seen. Um, so that's definitely It felt like a failure at the time and it felt really hard to swallow. Yeah. Um, but it's the best lesson I could have possibly learned.

00:10:07.100 — 00:10:13.580 · Speaker 2
Is that something that you've been able to tap into quite naturally, or is that a difficult kind of like bridge or for you from a personality disorder?

00:10:13.620 — 00:10:43.660 · Speaker 1
It was difficult, to be honest. It was difficult, but I think it's the lesson I needed to learn that resilience piece, that being able to hear. No. Yeah. Um, has has got me to where I am today. And, um, I think it's a lesson I couldn't have learned any other way. Trial by fire. Um. And it's it's. Yeah, it's definitely got us to where we are.

You know, entrepreneurship is not easy. If it was, everyone would do it. Yeah. But being able to take those no's and keep going and keep pushing, I think, is what's enabled us to actually get this far.

00:10:43.700 — 00:10:59.900 · Speaker 2
Have there been any, um, examples of instances where you've had something that looked like it wasn't working? It was a bit of a loss maybe to begin with, but over time, you've seen it transform into something that's become actually quite successful. And you weren't expecting that necessarily?

00:11:00.380 — 00:11:31.980 · Speaker 1
Yeah. I think obviously the brand part. You know, we we launched the 30 brands. We now have 350. Okay. And, um, you know, I was doing so much outreach, and now brands are coming to us. And even with when we launched, we thought, okay, we're going to launch and then this will be uni days overnight because it's such.

It makes sense, you know, and um, that that's transformed and it's transformed over time. Um, and yeah, I think it's as it goes back to the resilience and just continuing to push through, continuing to try different angles and different stories.

00:11:32.020 — 00:12:02.140 · Speaker 2
So it's classic kind of advertising, the way advertising works by, you know, repeating the message, have a really simple message or compelling story that is going to cut through. People start to get it, and then once you kind of like repeat it over and and you're bored of it yourself to some degree. But, you know, eventually people start to get that message and start to engage with it.

So yeah. Has there been any instances of things that have started off and you think like, this is a great idea. Like, this is definitely going to work and for whatever reason, like it just has petered out. It hasn't really kind of landed in quite the way that you were hoping or expecting.

00:12:02.260 — 00:12:59.420 · Speaker 3
Yeah, I think I could think of one good example of and, and we definitely do want to do this eventually in a slightly different way. But I think following Dragon's Den, we've got a lot of small businesses reaching out to us wanting to do something as well. Um, and we are building the tech to facilitate that.

Um, but in the meantime, we wanted to do something a bit shorter term where we could, like, they could have a banner or a label that they can put up in their small and local coffee shops or hairdressers or whatever. And so we had put them on our website so that when Dragon's Den aired, small businesses could do that.

And that didn't have like we got a lot of engagement on it, but it didn't have the like, uptake that we thought. And I think it's probably because it does need a longer campaign around it and really that onboarding around it. And we were maybe trying to do too many things at the same time. So I don't think it's a bad idea.

I think it just needs a lot more planning behind it. And and yeah, thought behind it before we do it properly.

00:12:59.420 — 00:13:01.900 · Speaker 2
I guess it's another one for the prioritisation. Yeah.

00:13:02.180 — 00:13:02.820 · Speaker 1
Something like that.

00:13:02.860 — 00:13:05.220 · Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's getting longer. Yeah.

00:13:06.220 — 00:13:06.900 · Speaker 3
Exactly.

00:13:06.940 — 00:13:37.220 · Speaker 2
Um, I mean, you I was talking to you obviously just outside beforehand about the fact that it's just the two of you right now. Right. Um, but you are hoping to kind of, like, build up the team, etc.. How do you think about, um, you know, suddenly opening up the company and the and the business to people that, you know, it's, you know, two sisters, family members together, and now you've got somebody new coming in.

How are you thinking about, like, the type of person you want to bring into the business and handing over the reins to some degree on some of those things that, you know, this is your, your, your baby to some degree. Right.

00:13:37.220 — 00:13:37.860 · Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:13:37.940 — 00:14:35.220 · Speaker 3
I'm actually quite excited about that. Um, because firstly, we've had a lot of people reach out to us already with just so much passion and being like, I do this, I want to come and work for you. Like, let me know when you have a job. So I think that we do have a pool of people that share that same passion as us and really believe in the idea.

So I think that's quite exciting that, um, to bring other people in. And Olivia and I talk a lot about the future of Cubbie and like the business that we want to build and especially like the culture we want to build. We both come from very big corporate environments, and I think especially Olivia, like experiencing motherhood and going through that.

We want to build something that is the opposite to that, that is flexible, that in like where business for parents embraces parents, parenthood and and works around that lifestyle. And so I'm quite excited to build something like that. That moment doesn't exist in like, you know, in a in a significant way.

00:14:35.260 — 00:14:35.540 · Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:14:35.540 — 00:14:36.100 · Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.

00:14:36.140 — 00:14:37.180 · Speaker 2
You feel quite similar to that.

00:14:37.300 — 00:14:37.420 · Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:14:37.700 — 00:15:07.510 · Speaker 1
I'm incredibly excited. I'm terrified and excited at the same time. I'm Taniya mentioned the culture and that is something I want to be fiercely protective of. And it goes back to the investors. We surround ourselves with, the brands we surround ourselves with, and those next steps we're taking in the next month or so.

Um, I know you know, nothing is a one way door, but we know the impact that, you know, team can have on the culture. So we've been very intentional um, about what we do there.

00:15:07.550 — 00:15:09.310 · Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Makes sense.

00:15:09.470 — 00:15:31.550 · Speaker 2
Um, I know it's early days as far as the business is concerned. It's like two years roughly, that it's been live. Um, and you've been running it with. But, um, even in that period of time, was there ever a point where you genuinely thought like, things might not work out here, like it's it's not going at the pace I need or that I want or I envisaged and you were kind of having some, some doubts in that regard.

00:15:32.510 — 00:16:40.790 · Speaker 3
Um, I don't think we've ever had doubts. Like, I do believe that a business like Cubbie needs to exist. So there's a significant gap that needs to be filled. Um, I think there have been times there is. I think every founder shares this story of like a naivety. You think it's going to go much smoother than it does.

Um, and there is that constant battle every day of like, this is going to take six months, or it's going to take a year, or we're going to be hearing this, start by this time. And that is never the case. I kind of think you need that naivete of like, this is going to go great. Otherwise you wouldn't do it. So that is definitely something that you have to get your head around on various occasions.

But I mean, it is it's luckily luckily it's very lean business. And it's a business that like brand onboarding. And for users it's it's free on both sides to join. Um, so it is a no risk kind of an easy sell. Um, so yeah, there's never been that case of like, you know, and we don't have big teams at the moment to have that pressure.

So it has always been moving in the right direction, maybe not always at this speed that we expected, but yeah. Yeah, I think we're pretty committed to the vision.

00:16:40.830 — 00:17:08.870 · Speaker 1
Yeah. And I think, you know, Tanika and I have built this, um, you know, we people think that we have a team already. You know, we get emails like, count this to your customer services analyst, your technical like me and to me, because it's only a two time. But, um, you know, we've built this at times, you know, working full time jobs.

I'm a mother as well, you know, we're juggling a lot of plates, so at times it has. We've always known that this needs to exist, as sneaker said, but at times it has felt so,

00:17:09.910 — 00:17:24.550 · Speaker 1
um, hard. And so, um, you know, how do we get there? Yeah. And sort of breaking that down into steps, you know, and, and really keeping our users at the heart of what we do. There's been times we tried to take shortcuts. Right.

00:17:24.589 — 00:17:25.030 · Speaker 3
You know.

00:17:25.069 — 00:17:47.830 · Speaker 1
We've we've um, we've tried to promote offers that, you know, are open to everyone. And our users firmly told us, don't do that, you know, and making sure that we stay true to why we started that, this and and that feeling that I felt when I was eight weeks postpartum. And I think just keeping that the heart and just working towards that North Star is just, um, you know, what's kept.

00:17:47.830 — 00:17:48.030 · Speaker 4
Us.

00:17:48.230 — 00:17:48.590 · Speaker 1
Kept us.

00:17:48.590 — 00:17:48.950 · Speaker 4
On track.

00:17:48.990 — 00:18:06.990 · Speaker 2
What do you think that like the experiences and the challenges particularly that you've had to overcome in, in creating the business, what do you think that you've learned in this two year period that, you know, looking back, you would feel like, oh, if I'd known that two years ago, I might have done that slightly differently or approach that slightly differently.

00:18:07.030 — 00:18:21.430 · Speaker 3
I'm not sure I can't. I think the main learning is the resilience thing. So actually, Olivia and I have come up with a few business ideas over the years, and we've always gone through like designing a logo, putting a business plan together.

00:18:22.230 — 00:18:22.710 · Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:18:23.670 — 00:18:57.950 · Speaker 3
Doing a website. And the thing that's always stopped us is the like fear of just letting go. And so I think what we've learned from cubby is like, just do it. If you've got an idea, do it, test it, fail quickly if it's going to fail and then try something else. So I think I can't think of a thing that we failed at that has been like not a learning.

It's always been okay, that's that's great. We've learned something new. Let's like, let's do it in a slightly different way then. So I think resilience, it's just been the key thing to just keep just keep moving forward.

00:18:57.990 — 00:19:00.150 · Speaker 2
So you are more resilient from having gone through those.

00:19:00.150 — 00:19:00.670 · Speaker 4
Experiences.

00:19:00.670 — 00:19:01.310 · Speaker 3
100%.

00:19:01.350 — 00:19:01.990 · Speaker 4
100%.

00:19:01.990 — 00:19:15.630 · Speaker 1
And that's not something you can just learn. That's something you have to. You have to live it. Yeah. And the only other thing that I think, I suppose would have been easier if maybe we started our business today. You know, Tanika built our first app. No coding experience. You know nothing.

00:19:15.670 — 00:19:19.430 · Speaker 3
And I didn't. Well, it didn't. I don't know. Yeah.

00:19:19.630 — 00:19:47.070 · Speaker 1
In the last two years, you know, you can whip up an app today and launch it tomorrow. And I think for people with incredible ideas, that is amazing. And I, I think I, I feel so passionately, passionately about that ability that it just unlocks for people who don't necessarily come from a background with resources or like network.

And I think obviously if we launched today, we'll be launching tomorrow.

00:19:47.110 — 00:19:48.070 · Speaker 3
Um, and.

00:19:48.110 — 00:19:54.150 · Speaker 1
We've been much more agile. Um, but yeah, I think I absolutely I think that's incredible.

00:19:54.190 — 00:20:38.110 · Speaker 3
Um, I think I can think of two business ideas, but we're always kind of like spitting ideas out of each other. Two business ideas that we've really pursued. Well, I would say really pursued up until actually doing something about it, but like really researched it and then kind of just got scared and didn't do it.

And I would say those two businesses exist today very successfully. And so when Olivia came up with the idea for cubby, I said to her, not, we're not letting this happen again, because if in two years time someone comes up with this and we haven't done anything about it, I will absolutely kick myself. And so that is the thing that always keeps me going, because I do believe this will exist.

And if it's not us that's done it and we haven't really tried. I'll be fuming.

00:20:38.910 — 00:20:50.910 · Speaker 1
It's the fear of being seen and fear of failure. Yeah. And I always think, yeah, you know, you always think people are looking at you in the same way that you're looking at you. But in reality, no one is watching you as opposed to you.

00:20:50.950 — 00:20:52.070 · Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:52.190 — 00:21:14.280 · Speaker 1
So, you know, and that's why we've got to that point through doing this. And that's why we've been able to run Dragon's Den before. I would have been so terrified of, you know, putting myself out there, failing on national TV and and now I think, you know, pushed through that and we've got to a place where we are now and it feels like a superpower because, um, I don't I just don't care.

00:21:15.000 — 00:21:15.560 · Speaker 4
And is that.

00:21:15.600 — 00:21:22.160 · Speaker 2
Is that for you at least? Is that becoming a parent, like, is that what's changed? And I don't know. Like for yourself, Tanika, what changed for you?

00:21:22.200 — 00:21:50.120 · Speaker 3
I think now seeing a little bit Olivia has become I think in the beginning I was the one that was like, come on, let's do this. Let's do this. Like. And then something in Olivia switched and she's way more like, I think confident in that regard to me. So now I'm taking early to. But it's quite it's quite good to have I think a co-founder that usually when I'm a bit scared, she's the one that's like, right, we're going and and vice versa.

So we can push each other a little bit to kind of get through it, which is good.

00:21:50.280 — 00:22:07.760 · Speaker 2
If you could both go back and, you know, hop into a time machine, go back and speak to your kind of younger selves, as it were. Give them some advice about, you know, um, starting their own business or their own professional careers. Like, what would what would be like one lesson that you would kind of a piece of advice you would give them?

00:22:08.240 — 00:22:32.400 · Speaker 3
I would just say be bolder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just go. And you've got an idea. You want to say something at work? Do it like. Yeah, I think people really respect that as well. It's not necessarily especially in the corporate space. It's not necessarily like something that's encouraged. But when you do do it, people are like, oh, wow.

Like, okay. Um, and um, so yeah, I would say stop worrying and what people think so much and do, you know, follow follow your own thoughts.

00:22:32.440 — 00:22:32.720 · Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:22:32.720 — 00:22:57.320 · Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. Completely agree. And, you know, Tamika and I were the first generation. We got to go to university building up these careers, and it felt like the path was laid out, the steps we should take. Yeah. And I think, as Nick said, be bolder. You know, take those risks, take those steps and just do it.

Um, and I think I'm so pleased that we've, we've got here and we've learned that and, you know, we've unlocked something.

00:22:58.000 — 00:23:08.200 · Speaker 2
Is there any sort of advice that you wish you'd taken earlier in your your in your careers, like from people that you now kind of trust and, you know, um, this guidance that you really value?

00:23:09.160 — 00:23:09.880 · Speaker 3
Um,

00:23:11.320 — 00:23:39.120 · Speaker 3
I think that, yeah, lots of people are like, yeah, take the risk. Do it. Try it. Fail. Yeah. Um, and I think, yeah, the BC thing, um, I was, I was always very like, um, head down at work. Like, I could, I was very, um, keen to show my skills through my work rather than verbally or, you know, presenting and things like that.

So, um, yeah, putting yourself out there a bit more, um, and. Yeah. And taking.

00:23:39.120 — 00:23:59.040 · Speaker 1
Those. I think what you said is, well, failing is so important. You know, don't be afraid of failing. You need to fail to learn. Um, and I think, you know, we're all trained to move away from the risk, move away from the failure. But actually, you need to lean into that to learn where the boundaries are, what works and what doesn't.

00:23:59.040 — 00:23:59.640 · Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:23:59.680 — 00:24:05.920 · Speaker 2
I wanted to just finally round things off by talking about what a success actually means to you. What does what does winning mean to you?

00:24:06.040 — 00:24:07.120 · Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah.

00:24:07.400 — 00:24:49.040 · Speaker 1
So I to to be honest, obviously I right now my world is cubby and motherhood and and I, I truly believe that what we're building is incredibly important um, for our community. Um, and so winning to me is related to copy and it is, you know, cubby becoming the brand that people download as soon as they find out they're pregnant or they're having a baby.

Um, you know, and and it's a community and it's a culture, um, of, you know, feeling seen and supported and and if we can, if we can deliver that, I think the impact could be so profound. Um, so that's my North Star, and that's what.

00:24:49.160 — 00:24:49.400 · Speaker 4
I'm.

00:24:49.400 — 00:24:50.040 · Speaker 1
Working towards.

00:24:50.080 — 00:24:50.640 · Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:24:50.680 — 00:25:30.520 · Speaker 3
I would say the same. And I think I'm quite lucky that I do the social media. You get that instant feedback. So when we put a story up and it's like this brand new one cubby, seeing the responses to that like, oh my God, I've been waiting for this, I'm going to order it, place my order today or whatever. Or, you know, we get some really nice emails about, you know, I didn't I haven't left the house all week because I've got no money and I've just gone and got my free coffee.

It's really nice to see that. And so actually, yeah, celebrating those really small wins along the way. Um, I remember when we like, made our first sale and got like, I don't know, it was a ridiculous amount of commission like nothing. And we were like, oh my God, someone thought something.

00:25:30.560 — 00:25:32.280 · Speaker 4
That's funny thing. Yeah, yeah.

00:25:32.600 — 00:25:39.760 · Speaker 3
Um, so yeah, we're quite good at I think we're quite good at celebrating those small wins along the way and just seeing that like momentum build and.

00:25:39.760 — 00:25:40.000 · Speaker 4
Stuff.

00:25:40.000 — 00:25:52.160 · Speaker 2
Is it feels like your community has, um, got a real sense of, uh, wanting you to win as well. Like a win for you guys is a win for them as well. And there's a kind of nice kind of virtuous cycle there.

00:25:52.200 — 00:26:40.520 · Speaker 3
Yeah, definitely. Like I think they're really bought in. We've we've been very transparent about the journey. And so they are very bought into. Um, yeah. That, that, um, us building this for them. Um, and like Dragons Den I think really help with that because they're like, yeah, I think they can just see that we're using quite normal people that have come up with an idea and are really going for it.

So yeah, we want to be that brand that people almost like, you know, when you go to uni and you're like, yes, forget the student discounts. Yeah. Um, we want to be that for, for parents. We want people to know about us before they've even, you know, thought about having children and are excited to have that as part of their journey.

Um, to parenthood, I think that would be like, yeah, household name that people know and really want to are excited to join.

00:26:40.560 — 00:26:40.760 · Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:26:40.800 — 00:26:53.600 · Speaker 2
One of the things I wanted to ask was just about like where there was a moment where you genuinely felt really kind of like, quite scared and trepidatious about, like, you know, the, the business itself or something that you're about to do with it. Is there anything that stands out in that respect?

00:26:54.080 — 00:27:32.130 · Speaker 3
For me, it was the night before Dragons Den aired. Okay, so you don't see it. Obviously when you're filming, you're in there for about two hours. You have long, very detailed conversation and you do not see that edit before it goes live on the BBC. Um, and so I was just so nervous. I was like, they're going to edit me to make me look like an absolute idiot.

I'm going to be a meme in the morning. I was just terrified that it was gonna come out. And even just watching yourself back on TV, I was like, this is going to be so icky. I did not look forward to it at all. Actually, it was fine. And yeah, I think overall it's a really good experience. But that was I did not sleep the night before.

00:27:32.250 — 00:27:34.050 · Speaker 1
I thought I was going to go into labour.

00:27:34.290 — 00:27:35.730 · Speaker 4
Yeah, that was my other.

00:27:35.730 — 00:27:41.330 · Speaker 3
Worry is that she's going to go into labour and I'd have to do the numbers on my own. So not really for that.

00:27:42.250 — 00:28:05.690 · Speaker 1
I think for me it was that moment the day before we launched and like just turning on our Instagram and, you know, telling the world what we were going to do. Yeah. And, um, you know, as I say, I had these expectations that it was going to go off and go crazy. And to be fair, it did. In it, in that first two weeks.

Um, it did go crazy. Um, right. Yeah. That was terrifying.

00:28:05.730 — 00:28:13.290 · Speaker 3
Yeah, it went crazy at the exact moment that Olivia went into a massage, actually. So her phone was like ping, ping, ping while she was trying to get a massage.

00:28:13.850 — 00:28:14.810 · Speaker 4
Yeah, exactly.

00:28:14.850 — 00:28:16.170 · Speaker 3
Yeah. Bad timing.

00:28:17.610 — 00:28:48.570 · Speaker 2
That's all for this episode of lessons from losing. Next time, I'll be joined by Chik Halo, founder of affiliate and PR agency Lo Digital, who explains why losing clients wasn't the end of her business, but the beginning of building it on her own terms. Now, if you've enjoyed listening, make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss the rest of the series.

And if you'd like to watch all of the video interviews, just head over to Ian's YouTube channel. Until next time, thanks for listening and join me again for another lesson from losing.