04_Online - dub011 - Awin Podcast Mini-series Margate Day 2 - Hannah Wharrier - (16-9) - V6.txt
English (UK)

00:00:00.480 — 00:00:27.240 · Speaker 1
Those people that you think have all the answers to everything they actually don't like. You look at like people on boards or like senior people and actually they're like as vulnerable as you, and they make mistakes and they don't know everything. And and so, like, don't be intimidated by those people because no one has all the answers at all.

And actually vulnerability is the best quality to have as a leader.

00:00:41.360 — 00:01:43.510 · Speaker 1
I'm the CEO and co-founder of the Philly Fest. Um, it's still quite weird for me to say that I'm a co-founder because it's literally been, uh, two years. Yeah. Um, just so we're like babies. Um, probably compared to the other people that you're that have been on the podcast. Um, So what does that actually mean.

So I'm kind of involved in everything. So one minute I might be pitching sponsors and the next I'm checking venue layouts, the next I'm fundraising, the next I'm hiring. So I do a bit of everything. And that's changing as we grow the team more and more. Um, and before that, I was at a company called Clarion Events for 12 years.

So I was very much part of the kind of big corporate life. So it's very different now. Um, and I was running the digital marketing division, um, I was, um, which everyone listening, I'm sure. Well, no affiliate summit. So I was running Affiliate Summit as part of my division. Um, so it's been like a huge change since I've done that.

00:01:43.550 — 00:01:50.230 · Speaker 2
And, like, what was that transition like, going from more of a corporate environment into one where you are, you know, effectively starting from scratch?

00:01:50.270 — 00:03:49.930 · Speaker 1
Yeah. Like totally underestimated how difficult that would be. Yeah, to be honest. So I resigned and I knew I wanted to do something myself. Um, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. Um, I love the affiliate industry. So I actually like, did loads of research in other sectors. Um, but landed on affiliate and really was really good friends with James and and so it all kind of worked out meeting and wanting to do this together.

But yeah, it was it was hugely difficult. Not in terms of like, I think what you would expect. And this is like been my biggest thing, my biggest failure is the, the underestimation really of that, of how difficult that would be. Yeah. Because I think you think that, um, it's going to be this big financial risk, which obviously is and that's going to be the most difficult thing.

But actually, it wasn't that at all. It was like the kind of emotional, um, change, I guess, and the emotional toll of moving into becoming a founder and like, everything that meant and I think so you're at a corporate and you've got, you know, a big job title, you know, a man managing director of a division I was on a board for, for Europe.

I had a big salary. And you kind of get that all removed in like one fell swoop, and then you have nothing and you're starting from scratch. And I literally was at home with an idea and a baby and just building it from absolutely nothing with no, not even a pound of revenue. And and I was running like a £15 million business in Clarion.

So and then and it was just crazy because that then like really messes with your like self-worth. Because I think as someone who's like, your career is really important to you, uh, all of a sudden just have like, nothing and then go into something that's, that's like totally starting from scratch is is really quite difficult emotionally.

00:03:49.970 — 00:03:57.800 · Speaker 2
Yeah. So in terms of the film fest itself, what prompted you? Obviously you said you left Clarion. Yeah. It wasn't like you necessarily had the idea at that.

00:03:57.840 — 00:05:01.150 · Speaker 1
No, I didn't at all. No, I left Clarion, I was bored. Oh, it was a bit comfy. I was a bit comfortable. I had a baby, wasn't excited to go back. And, um, I just wanted a new challenge. I'm, like, very motivated by challenges. And, um, I just really believe that you have to grow by getting out of your comfort zone.

So I was like, right, I'm sure I'll leave Clarion and I want to look into doing something myself. And actually, when I resigned, the CEO of Clarion said, you need to like, do something yourself. Like, you've you've definitely got that like entrepreneur real drive. And I was a bit like, okay, I don't know if I could do that.

That sounds really scary. But and I look at other founders and with so much admiration, I thought it was like the coolest job. And it's almost like surreal. Yeah. Like even to sit here and to be invited to be on a podcast with founders is like, pinch myself. So exciting. Like, what an honour. And then. Yeah.

So we've got, like, 12 people who've got our logo. I got a guest.

00:05:01.270 — 00:05:03.230 · Speaker 2
That is a that is a permanent tattoo. Right?

00:05:03.270 — 00:06:24.420 · Speaker 1
Yes. Permanent. Yeah. Yes. And we do give people free tickets for life, but we're going to have to stop it because I'm not I'm running a business here, everybody. Um, but yeah, right now we we definitely still do that. It's just. Yeah. Amazing. It's like, I think we I like to think I'm not. It's not really an event business.

It's a community that we're building. And that's where it kind of starts. And I think, yeah, the people getting the tattoos and the merch is like, people are offering to pay for our mud. Yeah, really. We've had a company, um, offer to stock our merch on. Yeah. The retailer, I think just kind of going back to what I said earlier, it was less like a business failure, but more just like the total underestimation of how much That transition to founder would mess me up emotionally.

Like, I was really excited when I resigned in the next day, I was just like, this is the biggest mistake I've ever made. Like, I've walked away from a massive salary and I've had a baby and I now, like, have like nothing. And at the same time, like, yeah, when you when you've had a baby. Anyway, it's really hard because you've lost a lot of your identity to become a mum.

And I think yeah. So my biggest lesson was just

00:06:25.460 — 00:08:14.400 · Speaker 1
I underestimated that whole thing. And um, I look back now and I'm so glad everything happened, how it happened. But at the time, I had, like, huge regrets and I didn't. Yeah, I didn't realise at all how much it would really, really affect me. Yeah. And I think that's just something that you don't, you don't realise.

Everyone's like, I bet, I bet you get people in your, in this podcast saying, the thing that you need to do is just go for it. You know, start before you're ready. Definitely true. But it's also like that, that giving up your identity when you've worked so hard to build it. When I was there for like 12 years and, and I had a big team, I had other people making decisions to go to.

You're making every decision. Your everything is down to you like paying people's salaries. I like physically have to press the server. I'm like, that's like crazy. And like, if you don't have enough cash. Like, I remember the period between like last year's a really fast and I really fast north. I was so panicked about cash flow and like not paying myself a salary.

That's the first thing that you like to stop because you want to pay your staff. So that that's the mental load of that is unbelievable. It's like you're not sleeping when you're worried about like someone else paying the mortgage, let alone your own. Yeah, Yeah. And I'm really lucky I've got a partner who has been so supportive in this whole transition.

And it's so funny because I think he was such someone who would have loved to have started his own business. And now it's like, that's going to be hard because, um, yeah, he's kind of made that sacrifice so that he can watch me do this. Yeah. And it's it's just a dream come true now.

00:08:14.440 — 00:08:31.040 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. I wanted to go back to that moment, I guess, when you had handed in your resignation and you're suddenly confronted by the prospect of not having that status or not having that security. And was there a moment at which

00:08:32.280 — 00:08:38.240 · Speaker 2
you were or what? What was the moment at which you were kind of like, was it immediate? You were like, oh my God. Like I cannot.

00:08:38.280 — 00:08:38.800 · Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:08:38.840 — 00:08:40.080 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Really deal with it. Yeah.

00:08:40.120 — 00:08:44.920 · Speaker 1
Yeah. I'm like, I'm quite a rash like decision.

00:08:44.960 — 00:08:45.400 · Speaker 2
Okay.

00:08:46.120 — 00:10:01.100 · Speaker 1
So, uh. Which is probably like every time I've resigned from a job I've like. It's been like an emotional reaction to something that I've been like, what the fuck have I done? Um, so yeah, it was it was kind of like, oh, this is exciting. But then it's like, where do I start? Like, I want to do something myself.

Um, I actually no, I actually, first of all, wanted I, there was a job that I wanted. I got went through an interview process for a like M&A consultancy and I got really far and I didn't get the job. Oh my God, I was devastated. I was totally devastated. And I'm like, Thank God I didn't get that job. Yeah, because I hadn't really faced rejection like that for a long time.

And it's actually like when you get dumped. And they didn't get back to me after I took, I put my my baby in nursery. I paid for a day of nursery to, to prepare for this presentation, and they didn't get back to me for ten days after I'd done these two presentations in an interview, which, if they ever listen to this, that is a really awful interview process to then not reply.

Um, but that's. I'm so glad I didn't cause that this is not a world I can see myself like being in. Yeah, it's like very pale, male and stale. And that's the total antithesis.

00:10:01.180 — 00:10:03.860 · Speaker 2
Yeah. I feel much better suited to where you are now.

00:10:03.860 — 00:10:31.620 · Speaker 1
Definitely. And if that hadn't happened, um, you know, I would never have started to fully vest. Yeah. Um, but then I, like, started researching lots of different event ideas. Like, I'd really love this. I think there's something there's a real gap in the events market in terms of like neurodiversity and and that's something I'm really interested in because I've got two stepchildren and my partner who are neurodiverse.

Um, but yeah, I just got pulled back into affiliate. Yeah. James little.

00:10:31.660 — 00:10:32.700 · Speaker 2
Yes. Yeah, yeah.

00:10:32.740 — 00:10:34.020 · Speaker 1
So that really.

00:10:34.060 — 00:10:44.980 · Speaker 2
Took me through that process as well. Like collaborating with James, connected with him, formulating the idea for a film fest and what the kind of brand identity, I guess was of the the festival that you were or event that you were envisaging.

00:10:45.010 — 00:11:55.880 · Speaker 1
Yeah, a really good question. And I love talking about this. Um, so we said we feel like the affiliate industry deserves better than what's going on at the moment because, um, we think we wanted to create an event that was fun that we would love to go to. Um, and as part of that, then I so we went for lunch and he was, uh, kind of unhappy with where huddle at the time was going.

And I had nothing to do with Hudl. Um, and so we talked about what would be important to us. And I looked back now and actually, that was us kind of talking about our values. And that's actually like the most important thing when you're launching a business or you're with someone or you're going to work for someone, because if your values aren't aligned, you're going to be miserable.

And so we talked about we want it to be fun. We want it to be free for brands. We want brands to be at the centre of everything we're doing. Um, we want it to be memorable. We want it to be something that, like, people talk about all year, like. And we were like, like really agreeing on all this, and I was like, okay, let's just like, do it.

00:11:55.880 — 00:12:26.360 · Speaker 2
I wanted to ask you about, like, the nature of your business is pretty unique from all the other guests that we've had, which are all, you know, online digital properties, largely yours is very much a kind of physical business, like you are turning up on on the day at an actual venue, having to figure out logistics.

There must have been so many, so much jeopardy involved in that and so many kind of like, um, things that have gone awry and you've had to kind of correct on the day and put on a good front of. Yeah. Got any sort of insider perspectives on.

00:12:26.360 — 00:12:30.520 · Speaker 1
That so much. Um, I mean, this week's been a nightmare because the weather, the.

00:12:30.520 — 00:12:31.040 · Speaker 2
Weather's been.

00:12:31.040 — 00:12:36.360 · Speaker 1
Bad, like, and there's a direct correlation often when you've got free tickets between good weather and people turning up.

00:12:36.400 — 00:12:36.840 · Speaker 2
Oh, really?

00:12:36.880 — 00:12:46.990 · Speaker 1
That's like a proper, like, piece of actual causation. Like data. Yeah. So, um. So. And then we had two strikes this week as well. Yeah. Yeah. Oh.

00:12:47.430 — 00:12:48.230 · Speaker 2
Oh my God.

00:12:48.270 — 00:13:27.510 · Speaker 1
Yeah. So. But do you know what it. You just have to be so, um, agile and reactive constantly. Um, we've literally just changed plan for that. There's a to be networking session for brands going on over there right now. And it was supposed to be outside, started raining. So we changed the plans to being undercover.

So there's loads of stuff like that with events. I think big kind of mistakes. I mean, we used to actually that's actually why I love the idea of this podcast, because I believe celebrating mistakes is is so important. So in my old team Affiliate Summit, we would actually have like an award like mistake of the show.

00:13:27.550 — 00:13:28.270 · Speaker 2
Okay. Yeah.

00:13:29.030 — 00:13:53.100 · Speaker 1
So you have to learn from it. Don't do it again. But actually let's not like hide from mistakes. Everyone makes it. And if you don't have that culture, I feel like people don't take risks. Or they're, like, scared to tell you when they've fucked up. that we had to think. Mistake. Show. My favourite mistake ever.

So we had Snoop talking at our show, right? It was a show that I used to run called Traffic and Convergence, and we got Snoop Dogg and Martha Stewart, right? Well, yeah, we did.

00:13:53.100 — 00:13:54.380 · Speaker 2
They always come as a package, though.

00:13:54.580 — 00:14:18.220 · Speaker 1
Uh, you can pay for them as a package, and it's like a better deal than you pay for them. Yeah, yeah. Uh, so we got Snoop and Martha Stewart, and we got Snoop, and we'd, like, sold meet and greets for Snoop. And they were like, five K apart. It's like there's a lot of revenue tied to Snoop. And then he cancelled like the day before because he had Covid.

Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, um, we.

00:14:18.460 — 00:14:19.500 · Speaker 2
So Martha was still there.

00:14:19.540 — 00:14:32.700 · Speaker 1
Martha came. Yeah. Martha came and we. And actually, I accidentally told her that Snoop had got Covid in the green room, and she was like, Snoop's got Covid. And I was like, fuck, I shouldn't have done this. Like calling him.

00:14:34.260 — 00:14:47.330 · Speaker 1
Um, but no. Then my marketing team, uh, she emailed everyone, all the attendees with this like really funny gif of like Snoop saying, sorry guys, I've got Covid or something like.

00:14:48.930 — 00:14:55.090 · Speaker 1
And Snoop's team got it. And they went mad. So they called like.

00:14:55.250 — 00:14:57.490 · Speaker 2
I guess this is now like a news item, right? Yeah.

00:14:57.490 — 00:15:34.490 · Speaker 1
And they were like, sorry. In the contract, you're not supposed to have told anyone like, anything like this. Yeah. So that's probably like. And there was this was like 6000 people who got that email. Yeah. Like, all the attendees got this. And it was a hilarious, like gif of Snoop saying he got Covid and that one.

The mistake of the show, obviously. Yeah. Because we had to like, do some real like grovelling damage limitation. Yeah, we luckily one of the founders of that show who was kind of still still working with us on an earn out, he was a lawyer, like by trade. So he had to like, literally get his lawyer hat on and argue us out of paying like hundreds of thousands in damages.

00:15:34.530 — 00:15:35.010 · Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:15:35.050 — 00:15:40.840 · Speaker 1
Yeah. So that was a big one. Yeah. That I always remember. I love the marketing game. You're gonna kill me for saying.

00:15:42.360 — 00:16:01.240 · Speaker 2
It's going back to a Philly first. I know, it's like it's a it's a young company. It's been around for a couple of years, but has there ever been a point? I mean, you talked earlier a bit about like, you know, um, doing payroll, trying to make sure that payroll, it goes ahead as planned. Like, has there ever been a point so far where you thought like, do you know what, this this might not work out?

00:16:01.360 — 00:16:02.080 · Speaker 1
Um,

00:16:03.320 — 00:17:58.150 · Speaker 1
if I'm honest. Like, I still don't feel confident. Like I know that sounds mental. And we've got like a hugely successful show that's been amazing the last two days, but, like, I don't know if I'll ever stop worrying about that. And I don't know if that's just like an entrepreneur thing, but I'm never gonna feel like this is like I'm now like, often, are we going to fast like, like or are we not going fast enough?

Like, there's just a, you know, arcade. Everyone's had a good show, but did they just have fun? Like, I'm like, did you get any business like this? I'm. Until. I don't know if I'll ever stop worrying. And I think that's like part of being an entrepreneur is you just have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Mhm. Um, and that kind of sick feeling about payroll. I don't I can't imagine that's ever going to go. Yeah. Uh, and that's where everything like the, it's so important to me that our customer feedback and that's been at the core of a really fast like and the core of like my whole career is like, I'm really obsessed with our customers.

And this survey that goes out post-show is so important to dictate the next year's show. And we do like NPS and customer satisfaction and, um, lots of analysis on like what that's correlated to. So, for example, we know that if you download the app, you're more likely to have a good time. So there's like a correlation like loads of interesting stuff like that.

Yeah. That survey goes out after the show. I have to bloody send it, obviously. I don't have a team anymore to do that. So that will go out on Friday. Oh, my heart is in my mouth and I'm looking at like the MPs. Like it just will destroy me. Oh, so. And, uh. So Adam, your CEO. He would often like, make my, like, emotional state.

I don't know if you'll get it.

00:17:58.230 — 00:17:59.270 · Speaker 2
Okay. I just.

00:17:59.270 — 00:17:59.590 · Speaker 1
Want him.

00:17:59.830 — 00:17:59.990 · Speaker 2
Back.

00:18:00.310 — 00:18:17.910 · Speaker 1
Yeah? Yeah. I was like, are you going to give me my feedback now? Yeah. And he's like, yeah, he can. He can be like pretty cutting. Yeah. He's not happy. Yeah. And then also like very nice if he is happy. Yeah. And luckily with the Philly first he's been like super kind and supportive so far. Yeah. But I feel it maybe sometimes wasn't like that.

00:18:17.950 — 00:18:20.310 · Speaker 2
You got to stick him up on stage. At least with a heart monitor. Yeah.

00:18:20.750 — 00:18:22.950 · Speaker 1
That was revenge. Yeah yeah yeah, yeah.

00:18:23.950 — 00:18:47.020 · Speaker 2
It can be quite lonely as a as a founder. Yeah. You know, you've got a lot of responsibility. A lot of that burden is on your shoulders. Obviously you've got your co-founder James, to to kind of like work through things. But are there moments where you felt like you are on your own a bit and it's, you know, what do you do in those moments?

Like, are there people you can reach out to that are maybe in the business, outside the business, in the industry? Family, friends?

00:18:47.060 — 00:19:18.020 · Speaker 1
Yeah, I think having a co-founder an interesting what you said earlier about all those co-founders that you've been speaking to. I couldn't have done this alone. No, I'm just not someone who likes working alone. Like I've always had a kind of, like, partner in crime. Yeah. In wherever I've worked. And that was.

I would never have done this without James. Yeah. At all. And so, yeah, if I'm feeling lonely, like like we had a moment yesterday, what I like was, like, welling up about and was like, oh my God, the buskers having arrived. Which sounds like a terrible thing.

00:19:19.140 — 00:21:12.320 · Speaker 1
It sounds like a small thing. I was so annoyed because in my head, I've got this like entrance where, yes, the buskers are playing and everyone's turning up and that's like the the, the end and the start of an event are actually like very important for people's like psychological like review of the event.

And the bloody rascal was like 2.5 hours late and I went and cried to James. Yeah, he's like, I think he was looking at me like, it's fine, everyone's fine. Let's go with the podcast. Yeah. So James's is like a massive a massive support. And I hope you would say the same about me and my partner is. Yeah. Um, I actually do.

You know, it's nice talking to other founders in the industry. Kev Edwards. Like, it's been nice because we've kind of been on a similar, uh, stage of a journey, uh, because I don't know when the a PM, but that's also what makes it amazing because you get that, like feeling of an end point. And this was an amazing win.

So it's like I guess like high risk, high reward because there's nothing better than like when you're at the end of an event which after this I will be celebrating on the roller. Just go. Yeah, there's nothing better than that feeling of finishing event when it's been amazing. Oh my God, the worst is when it hasn't.

Yeah. Um, and people are unhappy. But genuinely. I was just talking to our head of sales, Lydia, and she's like, I've had zero complaints. I was like, does this ever happened? Yeah. So, yeah, it was this, like, euphoric. Yeah. That feeling. But yeah, it's it's it's funny. I say it's like, imagine getting a T.

You're basically like building a little village like a, like a village or some event you're building, like, bigger than a population of a country. Like, not even don't think that the the event my partner runs is like a hundred thousand visitors. Oh, wow. So, like, imagine how big that is. And then you're hiring people who started the day before to tell people where to go.

Yeah. You like. And then by the time they learn the directions, it's done.

00:21:12.440 — 00:21:13.480 · Speaker 2
Then it's over. Yeah.

00:21:13.480 — 00:21:26.640 · Speaker 1
Yeah. It's it's it's really tough. Yeah. Um. Which is why I rope in my entire friends and family. Because I can trust them. And I've got loads of friends from the events world who are, like, the best at what they do. Yeah. So that's that's super helpful.

00:21:26.680 — 00:21:40.310 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Nice. Um, what would you say that like going through some of these experiences where things haven't quite worked out. Are there any sort of core principles or lessons that you've learned that you take into the running of your business?

00:21:40.510 — 00:21:57.150 · Speaker 1
Yeah. Yes, definitely. Um, if I can use like, uh, a real failure from a big mistake from when I was running a affiliate summit. Mhm. So we launched Affiliate Summit in Europe. Did you go?

00:21:57.190 — 00:21:58.710 · Speaker 2
Yes. In Amsterdam.

00:22:00.950 — 00:22:01.910 · Speaker 2
I had a good time.

00:22:02.430 — 00:22:34.900 · Speaker 1
So yeah the our sponsors didn't. Oh we basically took an amazing brand from the US and just ran it exactly the same. Yeah. We didn't like we just kind of assumed it would work. Uh, exactly the same in the UK. And we launched it in the UK in 2018. And then we took a dancer in 2019. Yeah. And it's just it was so stupid because it was a total failure.

Actually not. Not really. Financially. It didn't. He didn't lose money, but like the cousin experience.

00:22:34.940 — 00:22:35.420 · Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:22:35.460 — 00:22:38.940 · Speaker 1
Like atrocious. It was like the worst. And it was like -40.

00:22:39.140 — 00:22:41.220 · Speaker 2
Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:22:41.260 — 00:22:53.220 · Speaker 1
Just horrendous. Yeah. And actually, my team were like, before they told me the MPs. They were, like, desperately trying to, like, email, select people with the link of the survey. Really like. Yeah. And it just made it worse.

00:22:54.580 — 00:23:49.010 · Speaker 1
But the lesson was you've got to speak to your customers and understand what they want. And that has dictated my entire career since you can't just assume you've got a great brand, that it will work wherever you do it, because you need to put your core customer at the centre of everything you do. And that's why I'm going to all these events in the US at the moment.

And talking to brands who are brands are at like the absolute centre of everything that we do. There are core customer because you get the brands their everybody else will follow. Um, so that's why I'm going to, uh, think tank in the US and speaking to these brands, because I don't just want to do a Philly fest the same over that.

I've got to I've got to adapt it for an American audience. Because actually, the persona of a affiliate manager at a brand is different to the persona in the UK. Yeah. And so we need to adapt our show according to that.

00:23:49.050 — 00:24:07.010 · Speaker 2
Yeah, that's quite an interesting dilemma actually, because you've got, you've you've built an identity and a brand. I would say it's relatively like given how young the company is already pretty well established, I think on the, on the agenda in the industry. And there's a degree to which you don't want to deviate from that too much because that's your core identity.

But you do want to adapt to the needs for.

00:24:07.010 — 00:24:07.090 · Speaker 1
The.

00:24:07.090 — 00:24:07.890 · Speaker 2
Local market.

00:24:07.930 — 00:24:08.650 · Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.

00:24:08.810 — 00:24:10.690 · Speaker 2
How do you strike that balance?

00:24:10.810 — 00:24:37.880 · Speaker 1
Um, yeah. So just being humble again and not just like having assumptions about what they want and what's worked. And I think that's what I didn't do before, but just not making assumptions that, okay, everyone loves it here because it's in a cool venue and we do like loads of pre-arranged meetings and roundtables, like that's not necessarily what will work over there.

Yeah. Um, and even just something really simple as like we couldn't launch with a one day event over there because.

00:24:38.200 — 00:24:39.160 · Speaker 2
No one's coming.

00:24:39.360 — 00:25:10.120 · Speaker 1
In. There's no, like, hub. So to go to Nashville for one day from, you know, somewhere else in America is is is just wouldn't work. Yeah. So just like small things like that that you have to really pay attention to together with, like big things like, you know, I don't think the brand to brand is as evolved over that.

So like content is obviously got to be so different. And whereas maybe influencer is is a bit more advanced. Um, so, so yeah, it's um, so that's what we're doing all at the moment.

00:25:10.160 — 00:25:10.960 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00:25:11.200 — 00:25:12.400 · Speaker 1
Before we really launch.

00:25:12.440 — 00:25:31.830 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. You've spoken about one of those kind of losses, I guess, like, um, you know, Summit Europe. Mhm. Has there ever been like an instance where you've had something that looked like it was a loss to begin with, but has then later on you've been like. Actually, do you know what? That was actually quite successful, and it was kind of unexpected.

00:25:32.190 — 00:25:32.870 · Speaker 1
Um.

00:25:33.710 — 00:25:38.870 · Speaker 2
That could be like conferences in general. It could be individual sort of session formats or, you know.

00:25:38.910 — 00:25:48.149 · Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, with that debate we did in Manchester, we lost we lost money on that. Okay. Um, but and we were a bit like

00:25:49.190 — 00:26:25.060 · Speaker 1
did was did that work, was that good. And, and actually it was amazing. Like we were, we were like, this is so different what we usually do. Yeah. Um, and we yeah, we, we, we lost money. But actually the response and like, we've really managed to tap into more of a younger audience because of it, I think. And the social coverage that we got afterwards was insane.

So yeah, I mean, I was really stressed because I really just at least wanted to break even. And yeah, we, we lost money, but I think it's been a bit of a yeah, it's been it's been good in terms of like the Halo, the brand Halo around.

00:26:25.100 — 00:26:35.860 · Speaker 2
Yeah. And what about the reverse of that? Things that you always assumed, you know. This is a great idea. This is definitely going to work. And for whatever reason, it just hasn't quite landed in the way that you would have expected.

00:26:36.700 — 00:26:37.260 · Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:26:37.300 — 00:26:38.460 · Speaker 2
Or was it the same? Was it the same.

00:26:38.700 — 00:26:40.580 · Speaker 1
Networking on the Big Wheel last year?

00:26:41.220 — 00:26:41.540 · Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:26:41.820 — 00:26:51.140 · Speaker 1
It's like people just wanting to go on it for fun. I'm like trying to use it for like force them to to network and stuff. And they're like, no, we just want to come and go. And this is on some stuff like that.

00:26:51.180 — 00:26:52.260 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:26:52.260 — 00:26:57.500 · Speaker 1
Um, yeah, maybe like, we need to, like, not overcomplicate things sometimes.

00:26:57.540 — 00:26:58.300 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00:26:58.340 — 00:27:00.500 · Speaker 1
People find their own way.

00:27:00.540 — 00:27:27.290 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. What is it that you would say that, you know, now as, like, um, you know, two years in, you know, I guess you already are kind of like a leader within clarity and given the seniority of your roles there, but actually going out on your own and being that person that is ultimately fundamentally responsible to the staff, etc., what's something that you really wish that you'd understood earlier in your career?

Maybe that, um, would have helped you maybe get to where you are now or quicker or, I don't know.

00:27:27.570 — 00:28:03.010 · Speaker 1
Like connected to a lot of the stuff we've been talking about at this event is like those people that you think have all the answers to everything they actually don't like. You look at like people on boards or like senior people and actually they're like as vulnerable as you and they make mistakes and they don't know everything.

And and so, like, don't be intimidated by those people because no one has all the answers at all. And actually vulnerability is the best quality to have as a leader. And, uh, yeah, I think there could be a bit more of that.

00:28:03.050 — 00:28:14.770 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. Is there something that you would go back, you know, jumping into a time machine, travelling back to speak to yourself as like a early 20s kind of young professional? Yeah. Is there something that you would say to that person?

00:28:14.770 — 00:28:57.800 · Speaker 1
Oh yeah. I'd be like, stop tying your self-worth to this fucking corporate job, like, because it's like. Everything was all like, when it's going well, it's going well. And when it's not, you know, I would feel like not great. And and actually, it's just I was so frustrated working for someone else and being tied to and someone else's values, like go and just do it yourself.

Like, I really didn't grow up being like, I want to run my own business, but I'm it's an absolute dream to be doing that now. Yeah. And I'm so much cooler to my step kids. Like, because entrepreneurs are cool these days. Yeah. And they're like, they like really dismiss their dad. And I love that I'm an entrepreneur.

00:28:58.720 — 00:29:06.840 · Speaker 2
Oh, well, it's kind of like round things off by focusing on some of the, the kind of like the winnings. And what does winning actually mean to you today? What does success look like?

00:29:06.880 — 00:29:44.310 · Speaker 1
Oh, I love that question. Because like right now this is what winning is like today. Like it's not necessarily the the revenue or the growth. Although that's been really amazing year on year, but it's just like a happy bunch of customers who are like giving me this amazing feedback and building it with a team that I love working with that's winning and like getting up and like, literally, I love going to work like, I love it, I love going and we go, we all go in the office one day a week and I like, love it.

I like Skip over London Bridge because I'm so happy. So that's what winning is to me.

00:29:44.310 — 00:29:47.830 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. Winning is you with a glass of wine and a pair of roller skates on.

00:29:47.870 — 00:29:49.910 · Speaker 1
Yeah, that is going to be me. Yeah.

00:29:51.110 — 00:30:09.150 · Speaker 2
Um, you've had, like, a real changing gears, I guess, around your career. Yeah. Um, do you think your definition of success has changed over that time? Yeah. Okay. Last question for me is like, just what does what does that success or what does winning look like? You know, three years out from now, like you've started the company.

Where does it go from here?

00:30:09.470 — 00:30:35.540 · Speaker 1
Wow. Yeah. I'd like to be like double in size here, I think really successful US launch. Um. Manchester. Love that van. It's like such an amazing community up there. And then, uh, maybe another country as well. So we've talked about Australia, but, you know, nothing's really off the cards in terms of where we can take a Philly fest, I think global domination.

Yes, definitely.

00:30:36.140 — 00:31:08.500 · Speaker 2
That's all for this episode of lessons from Lucy. Next time I'll be joined by Kieran Dunne, CEO and co-founder of Geni Ventures, as he reflects on more than two decades of building businesses, the lessons that shaped him as an entrepreneur, and why some of the biggest opportunities come from taking calculated risks.

If you've enjoyed listening, make sure your subscribe so you don't miss the rest of the series. And if you'd like to watch the full video interviews, just head over to Owen's YouTube channel. Until next time, thanks for listening and join me again for another lesson from losing.