Before anything else, I am God's son.

So that means, that means my relationship with God, my father,

is more important than my relationship with my wife.

Me and you might make different decisions,

but if we made them from the same value, I'm good with that.

I can be good with that.

I think one of the best characteristics a leader can have is curiosity.

How do I keep that servant's heart, and how do I keep learning how to empower?

How do I create space for others to be able to step into

just the same way that Jesus did for us?

This is the Made to Advance podcast.

I'm your host, Brian Aulick.

We're here to inspire and equip you for your best future.

Well, hey everybody, welcome to Made to Advance.

It is so good to be with you.

And before we get started, I'm gonna ask you the favor.

I ask every single week, and that is,

if you're a fan of our pod, please rate, review,

subscribe, do whatever you can.

It helps us get the word out,

and it helps us bring on more great guests

like the one we have today.

Today, I'm excited to have Chet Pete on the pod.

And Chet is a campus pastor at Elevation Church

in Charlotte, North Carolina,

where he also serves on the executive leadership team.

Chet is that rare combination of someone

who has worked both in the marketplace

and now has been working in ministry since 2015.

Chet is speaking at my church,

at a Getty church this summer.

I'm so excited to catch up with him today.

And so Chet, welcome to the show.

Oh, thank you for having me.

I need to record that intro

and have that play for me every morning,

just to remind me of all God's done.

Oh man, it's so good to be chatting with you.

And our listeners don't know this,

but when you're here,

I'm actually gonna be out of the country.

And so this is, I feel like this is my chance

to like have a personal connect without being here

and on the ground when you're here.

So thanks for being able to have a chat.

Great, I'm excited to be with you.

I mean, this podcast is amazing,

helping a lot of people, honored to be on.

Thanks, man.

I'm curious, by the way, have you ever been to Michigan?

I know you haven't flown into Grand Rapids.

We talked about that pre-show,

but have you been to Michigan before?

Like barely.

I'm actually, I was born in Chicago.

Oh, were you really? Okay.

Yeah, I was born in Chicago, grew up in the West Side,

moved to Virginia when we were in elementary school.

So, I think we've just kind of gone through,

like it hadn't been, you know what I mean,

an official visit, but growing up we were around,

we were in the Midwest.

So you consider yourself a native Midwesterner?

Would you go that far?

No.

(laughing)

Yeah, I'm a Southerner at this point.

My cousins won't let me get over some of the Southern accent

that started to come over the years.

So I have to own it, I gotta own it.

Man, I don't hear that at all,

but hey, if they say so, I guess.

So I'd love to just start by just,

and we kind of got in this direction already a little bit.

Give us a sense of your background story a little bit,

like how you grew up, how you came to faith,

what your family was like.

We'd love to hear a little bit more just about you.

Yeah, I mean, born in Chicago,

named after my grandfather who was a pastor,

And my dad, which is not my grandfather's son,

my mom's dad is who I'm named after.

But yeah, grew up in church.

My dad was a pastor, never wanted to be one.

Definitely wasn't something that I thought I would be doing.

And yeah, went into college studying marketing

and started working at Finish Line, the sneaker store.

Oh yeah.

And always loved sneakers, fell in love with it

and started working my way up,

became an assistant manager, store manager,

and then started moving from city to city to manage stores.

And so, you know, learned

I don't know if I'd ever have a paycheck

if I worked at Finish Line.

Did you end up going home with products all the time?

Well, some seasons of my life, it was true.

It wasn't a might have, like we definitely,

I definitely spent way more money

than I should have at that store.

(laughing)

Yeah, that was our journey.

That was our journey.

Okay, so you worked your way all the way up to what?

What level were you at finish line then?

Yeah, I was the store manager,

training to be a district sales manager,

before I stepped into ministry.

Okay, what led you to think about ministry?

It was a string of events.

You know, it's kind of like,

some people are like,

"Hey, there's this moment where I felt like

God just made it abundantly clear

that this is what he called me to do."

For me, when I look back on my journey,

there were like so many small moments,

some that I kind of wanted to muffle,

you know what I mean?

I didn't want to listen to.

And over time, you know, it just became abundantly clear

when we moved to Charlotte.

So Finish Line moved us to Charlotte

and I was running a store here in the city

and a friend of ours told us about Elevation.

We came and visit, just fell in love with what God was doing,

was serving, was volunteering,

eventually started leading as a volunteer.

And some of the staff actually just came up to me

"Yeah, why haven't you applied?"

I honestly didn't understand vocational ministry.

Okay.

You know, my mom and dad-- - Even though your dad

was a pastor.

Yeah, but they worked, you know what I mean?

Like, they worked.

You know, so in my mind, I was like,

"No, like, this is just what you do."

And yeah, it was just over that season,

God just revealed some through our pastor,

through some sermons that he preached in that season

that were just very pointed to what we were walking through.

I was up for a promotion that would have meant

we would have had to move.

And I had some of this like just uneasiness

about this opportunity, where before I would have been like,

God, thank you for the opportunity, I'm going.

It wouldn't have been like, God, do you want me to go?

It was just, no, like,

thank you for the opportunity, I'm going.

And for some reason he had me just kind of arrested,

not sure, unsettled, and just made it clear like,

hey, I need to be stay planted.

And we stayed in Charlotte.

And I think from that first step of obedience,

he made it abundantly clear

that this is where I was supposed to be.

And now we're looking, I've been on staff 10 years,

10 years now. - Oh, congratulations, yeah.

And been a campus pastor eight years now,

and been serving our leadership team

for the past three years.

Man, that's really cool.

What a great journey.

And it sounds like, I mean, it's cool like that.

Sometimes, like you said, it's just real clear.

That was my call to ministry,

even though I saw the signs leading up to it now,

in hindsight.

But I would say that initially, you know,

I wasn't clear and then it was like night and day.

But I think a lot of times calling happens

like what you described.

I'm passionate about my church or I'm passionate about,

for somebody else, it could be something else.

They're just passionate about it.

They're doing it on their own.

It's a hobby, it's a side interest.

It's they're serving at their church in your case.

And then they get some external confirmation from people

saying, hey, we see something in you.

And then, and that's interesting too,

you were starting to get a like a dissatisfaction

with some of what you were doing, an unease,

and all that comes together and you're like,

hey, maybe I should start thinking about something fresh.

Yeah, that's good.

Now, being a campus pastor, I was thinking about your role,

and it's a very, very unique role.

I think, I mean, I got just like massive props to you

'cause I think campus pastoring is one of the most demanding

and unique roles in ministry, period.

And I think part of it is why is because on the one hand,

you're like, you know, leading your own area,

you're fully over your campus,

but on the other hand,

you're very much under the vision of the house.

Yeah.

And, you know, there's a phrase,

I don't know if you heard this phrase,

being a second chair leader.

Yes.

That idea that, you know, man,

I'm not like leading the whole thing, but I'm right there.

And I would just be curious to hear your insights.

So many people listening, you know,

they're not like at the top of the organization,

leading everything, but they are,

there are serving the bigger vision,

what have you learned about how to be

a great second chair leader?

Oh, wow, it's a great question.

First, I absolutely love my pastor

and it's an honor to feel like I'm in partnership.

And I would want all of our campus pastors

or second chair leaders to feel like they're in partnership

with their senior leader,

that God has you doing what you're doing

and God has me doing what I'm doing.

And what I do frees you up to do what you do.

And for us to be able to see that relationship that way,

I think it becomes amazing.

So I would say learning and understanding

your leader's core values, I think are vital.

I don't think you can be a great second chair leader

if you're not completely unified

in the values of your senior leader.

So our pastor says it this way.

He tells us this all the time.

You can make decisions for me

when I know we're unified on our values.

Wow.

So what he's saying is,

me and you might make different decisions,

but if we made them from the same value,

I'm good with that.

I can be good with that.

Right on, yeah, that makes sense.

If we make different decisions

and you're coming at it from a way other perspective value

than what I have, you know,

and you start to get disgruntled in that,

I think that you probably might need to start praying about,

is this the place or should I be doing my own thing?

Right.

And so for me, I think I love our church,

I love our values, I love our mission and vision.

And the more that I'm around our pastor,

I just get more ingrained into,

okay, how do I continue to carry that out?

How can I filter some of those values

and the decisions that I make to be able to continue to run

after what God's called us to do.

Yeah, I love that.

How do you, and how does Elevation make sure

that you as a camp's pastor are on the same page with values?

Is this like a, oh man, they're all on this,

you know, doc somewhere, you know, or on this webpage,

you like, I mean, or is it conversations?

How are you really kind of, you know,

drinking in those values

so that you can make decisions accordingly?

I'd say all of the above.

Yeah.

All of the above.

I think for sure, we all have our, you know,

our core beliefs and values in terms of, you know,

the way that we want to operate.

But sometimes there's so much nuance

in some of the decision-making

and some of the ways that, you know, you lead.

So I think, you know, you've probably heard this before

that, you know, clarity is kindness.

And I think a lot of times

when you're trying to create a culture,

you use language without definitions.

And so I think what we try our best to do a good job of

is not just saying words, but giving them definitions.

Okay.

When I say excellence, it may mean something different

than when you say excellence.

Yeah.

We have to define what does excellent mean to us,

like in our environment or in our culture.

And I think drilling down to the definition,

having some examples of that,

I think gives a better picture for someone

to be able to apply that to their context

within our organization.

Yeah, that's so good.

So what I hear you saying is when you're trying

to really help even your team understand what a value is,

not only are you gonna name the value and define it,

and you're gonna obviously have to use some words

to define it, but then you're gonna really spell it out.

Like, hey, this is what excellence looks like

in our context.

It means you've come to the meeting early or whatever.

It means you've got a prepared agenda.

You're not just flying from the hip

with a few loose items or whatever.

Get real concrete saying, this is how we see excellence.

Does that feel like what you're getting at?

A hundred percent.

Or because those things become clear,

then you can easily spot out if someone is coming

from a completely different way.

You can feel that, oh, that's not aligned.

So I'll give you an example.

I have a guy that worked for me for seven years.

He was my guy.

And so we worked together for a long time.

He values efficiency.

And so he's like, what's the cheapest way

and the fastest way we can get it done.

Now, that is not a bad value.

That is not a bad value at all.

But sometimes efficiency can rob us

of giving people the best experience possible.

And so we would be in meetings

and sometimes I would drill down and he was like,

"Well, I found the cheapest way and I found this."

And I was like, "But it's gonna feel like crap."

Like it's not, you know what I mean?

It's not gonna feel good.

So yeah, I want it to feel amazing.

I want the best experience and then save me some money.

So which one leads?

Which one leads?

So if he was leading his own space,

efficiency may be the lead leg.

But in my environment,

the experience of the guest was the lead leg

to the conversations that we would have.

And so you could spot it, you could feel it,

you could sense it as decisions were being made

or presentations are being made in terms of the ways

that we're trying to figure out

what we're doing to move forward.

When you see a team member that you suspect

maybe is not aligning with the values

in quite the way that you would hope they would,

what's your approach in that moment

to coach them or offer correction?

How do you get after it?

Well, I think one of the best characteristics

a leader can have is curiosity.

do not allow assumptions to rob you of relationships,

of the journey of digging around

and figuring out what something really is.

And so sometimes we'll say, they're not aligned.

Like, they don't care anymore,

or whatever the case may be,

when actually like, no,

like they are arguing with their wife right now

and they just didn't think it through.

You know what I mean?

So I would say the first thing I like to do

is to be able to acknowledge that I felt something.

I don't know what that something is.

And so in one-on-one, we have a high, high one-on-one culture.

And so like, you know,

I meet with my staff every other week, one-on-one,

at least 30 minutes for us to just sit across each other.

And in that one-on-one space, it's their meeting.

You know, they're bringing things to me.

But in that space is a space that I can say, well, hold up.

Hey, last time we were talking about blank,

or last time we were in this meeting, I felt something.

Here's what happened.

Can you tell me what's going on?

Did you feel that too?

And in that space, I think it starts the process

of them being able to open up and say,

well, here's what it actually is, or here's what it is.

If it is indeed, we disagree, like we disagree.

Hopefully you have someone on the team

that is open to understanding, seeking clarity.

You know what I mean?

just seeing, "Hey, Chet, I understand you have a different vantage point than me.

You know what I mean?

I may not see everything that you're seeing.

Can you bring me into that to help me understand?"

Hopefully that's their posture.

You know, in the event, and again, you see I'm like, I'm not getting to the all the way

end of the negative, because usually that's not the case.

Yeah, totally.

Usually that's not the case.

in the extreme that someone is just completely opposed

to what we're trying to do

or the values that we're trying to build on,

I think a few of those conversations,

I think a few of those conversations,

either we're gonna draw a line in the sand

and say we're gonna move in this direction,

you know what I mean?

Or not.

Or they make a decision to say like,

hey, I just don't know if this is where I'm supposed to be.

Well, and that's where back to clarity is kindness.

if the organization has certain values

and it's not a fit for that person,

that doesn't make the organization good and the person bad

or the person good and the organization bad,

it just means they're different and that's okay.

But it does mean that so long as the organization

holds those values, they're not gonna be really excited

and happy because they're gonna be keep bumping up

against the same problems.

But I love what you said.

And it's, man, so many times I've had leadership situations

where I'm in a situation and I read it one way

And I'm like 99.9%, this is what happened.

Thankfully, after a number of times

where you open your mouth and you actually,

turns out you don't know what happened,

you learn, you know what, don't assume.

And you just open up and say,

hey, here's something I'm feeling.

I love what you say, here's something I'm feeling,

'cause even at that point,

you're not putting it on them yet.

You're not saying you did this,

or you made me even feel this way.

Here's something I'm feeling,

and then you're just kind of opening up the conversation.

And I think it's true.

Most of the time you can end in a pretty good place.

Absolutely.

You know, just by getting it that way.

I think that's a really, really great point.

Only other thing I'd add that I think is important

is that because you create spaces

for those types of conversations,

I think you as the leader can grow

and the organization can get better.

Because me and you both, every leader has a blind spot.

You know what I mean?

Like there's places that we don't get it right.

It's so funny, I talk to people sometimes,

they're like, "Elevation Church, you probably don't."

And I'm like, when we start talking, I'm like,

"Oh no, here's some mistakes we've made.

"Here's some spaces where we..."

And I love, I love, I love when a staff member,

a director loves our church so much,

loves me as a leader, loves our pastor enough

to be able to throw their hands up and say,

"Hey, can we talk about why that decision was made?"

There's a difference between someone

who has a questioning spirit,

or someone that has questions.

There's a difference to someone that believes the best,

but actually is trying to protect us.

I want people around me that love me enough

to tell me, "Hey, Chet, you got kale in your teeth.

Can you, you know what I mean?

Like, you get that, you know what I mean?

Do you have people on your team

that can actually tell you that?

Or will they just stuff it, stuff it, stuff it

to the point they leave, and then when they leave,

all they have to say is negative things,

and they forget about all of the beauty

and the organization.

And I'm like, it goes both ways.

And so I wanna be open to growth.

I wanna be open to me as a leader growing

and our environment getting better.

And I think great leaders that we hire,

that we bring on to our teams,

volunteers that we bring,

the ones that can raise their hand and do that,

they make us better.

Right on.

Yeah, and if you don't have people around you

who are making you better,

where you can say this side,

I mean, I just came out of a meeting last night,

major initiative we're talking about,

and different questions were raised

and perspectives that I hadn't even thought of yet.

And I literally texted the group afterwards

and I said, I am so thankful for all of you

because this initiative is gonna be way better

after that conversation.

I don't think I'm a bad leader,

but man, I can't see around every corner

and that's where it's so helpful to have people around you.

Now, how do you,

and I could probably guess a little bit of this,

how do you set the environment where people,

particularly those who might be on your team

under your authority can feel comfortable to push back,

can feel comfortable, ask those hard questions.

That's tough, 'cause you feel like, man,

I feel like I'm criticizing the leader.

I feel like I might be pushing back

against what they really wanna do.

How have you created those safe environments

where they can feel like they can ask the hard question

or offer a contrary perspective?

I would love to ask leaders,

when was the last time you apologized?

When's the last time you said to one of your teammates

or to the team at large, guys, I'm sorry.

I didn't communicate effectively.

I didn't prepare you guys well for this.

That's on me.

Like, when was the last time you did that?

So that would be, I think, key.

If you show the team that you don't see yourself as perfect,

that you don't see yourself as, you know,

you get everything right, that your way is the highway.

No, no, no.

Every now and then, you gotta come in and say,

"Hey guys, I noticed I didn't set you guys up well for that."

And so I think that would be key

to being able to open up the space.

The second thing that I would say is that

you've heard probably the axiom that people say,

it's like, "Don't bleed on your team."

Like, don't bleed on your team.

Like if you're going through something,

you're dealing with something, don't bleed on your team.

God gave me something a few years ago

when I was going through probably one of the most

difficult things in our lives, where I realized,

okay, I can't bleed on my people,

but God showed me, he said,

but your people need to know that you bleed.

Oh, that's good.

That was such a pivotal shift in my leadership,

'cause I probably carried, you know,

the idea that I needed to wear the cape,

that they needed to see me as strong,

they needed to see me as having it all together.

And my wife would tell you,

And the staff that was closest to me would tell,

they'd be like, "I think you're a robot."

And you know what I mean?

And you're never tired.

So I can't be.

I think when you show them that you bleed,

you give them the permission to do the same.

And so I think those would be two things

that I would start with is asking yourself,

one, when was the last time you apologized?

And maybe when was the last time that you let them know

that you're, that you hurt.

Yeah, that's good.

You're a little tired today

or you're uncertain about something,

you're wrestling with something.

And there's appropriate ways of doing that

without you just come, you know what I mean?

Without you just coming in and then,

there's an appropriate way to do that

for your team to be like, oh wow.

Like I can do that too.

I thought that that was going to rob me of influence.

I thought it was going to slow growth and impact.

I thought all of that, man, it made my team,

I think, value me more.

Because I became more human to them.

Right, right, yeah.

That's the thing, as you were talking about,

that's the thing, when I hear you talking about

letting them know you bleed,

it's you're really saying, hey, they need to know,

they need to see your humanity.

And then you just said, you know, I'm becoming human

and that's just, you're a person they're relating to,

not like just a leader they're following.

And those are two different things.

They gotta be both of them, but I love that.

I love that.

You've been in your role for a while now

and you've probably got seen Elevation,

a fantastic, incredible church

with the global level influence.

And you've seen all kinds of different

comings and goings over the years.

I would just be curious from your vantage point now,

having been on the executive team

and really kind of been in that conversation,

What are some things that you've learned about leadership

having been part now of such a big organization

with such a global influence?

Wow.

That's a huge question.

You could probably write a book on that.

(laughing)

Couple of things are coming to mind.

I'm trying to choose which way to go

'cause massive, massive question.

I think that on one level, on one level,

I think it would be a good one.

here be a good one.

There was a couple of times where I was in meetings

and I had the thought, who's going to do blank?

Who's gonna bring blank up?

Who's gonna deal with that?

And then it was one of those things where I realized,

oh, like, I'm supposed to say something about that.

Like, I'm supposed to say something about that.

And I think that is a is a part of that kind of maturation

process of growth with within any organization.

Where I think you kind of start to realize that it was less

honestly about a position it was a more about an awareness

of that like if I'm here and I love this place.

I have more influence than what I than what I think so even

though I have a title and more responsibility. I still some

seasons where seeing myself as like I could jump into that

speak into that. So that would be one thing that I've kind of been growing into.

Did that feel like a risk when you started pressing in at first, Chet? Did it feel like

a bit scary?

For sure. I mean, the simplest one would be, you know, a lot of times you wanna pray before

you're making a decision, pray before you're doing something, and then you get into something,

you start working, or maybe you're hustling, bustling, that sort of thing. Some people think

that ministry is like you're just praying all day. You know what I mean? Like, you know,

we're just praying all day and it's like, that's not the case. But there was one time we were in a

meeting and we're in the meeting, we're wrestling through something and you could feel the weight

of it. You could feel this. And the Holy Spirit just was like, "Yep, let's pause for a second

and invite him into this." Like I had just that thought, right? I'm newer in the room. And I

I wrestled for a moment of like,

"Somebody else raise your hand."

Like, you know what I mean?

"Somebody raise your hand."

And I just asked our executive pastor,

I just said, "Hey, do you mind if real quick,

if we just, let's just invite God into this

for this moment, let's do it."

And he was like, "Oh, absolutely."

Like, you know what I mean?

It was like, it was a moment where we all needed it.

We all needed it.

And I was sitting there wrestling

on whether or not somebody else could jump in.

And so that's been huge.

I think the weight of my words, I think that, you know, we don't walk around and kind of

think big, you know what I mean?

Like we don't have that, you know what I mean?

If anybody spends time with us closely, you won't experience that.

From our pastor all the way down to our volunteers, like at every level, there's a level of gratitude.

There's a level of gratitude for everything that God is doing.

One of our core values is we will not take this for granted.

It's not about just saying that, no, and it's about expressing gratitude.

That being in our DNA, I think every time God opens up a door, every time there's expansion,

every time it feels like, "Wow, what is God doing within this move?"

It's like pausing and saying, "We will not take this for granted."

"God, thank you. Thank you, Jesus, for what you're doing and recognizing that all good

things come from above." And so those would be a few things. So the weight of my words

of recognizing that it represents and there's a lot of people watching, there's a lot of

pastors watching, and not taking that as some stick your chest out and act like, no, God,

"Thank you, I'm not worthy, I'm not smart enough for this.

There's people that pray more than me.

There's people that read the Bible more.

There's people that would even desire this more

than like, I was running away from this."

You know what I mean?

So that level of gratitude and waiting the moment

to say, "Okay, God, you chose me, let's go."

Yeah, man, I love.

And that's the thing for anybody listening,

anytime you're stepping into a new level of leadership,

you're gonna have to look in the mirror

and be willing to face some insecurities,

face some fears and step out in faith.

There's no such thing as like advancing

without taking a step of risk and faith

and having to grow yourself.

If you want a comfortable spot

where you just get to be stagnant,

then man, probably best not to keep trying to be a leader.

(laughing)

100%.

100%.

I don't think I was ready for any of the times

that our pastor or executive pastor

tapped me on the shoulder.

I don't think there's ever been a time

that I was like, I got this.

(laughing)

I don't think there's ever been a time that that was the case.

It was like, you want me to do what?

Uh-huh.

Seriously, that's what you want me to do?

You know what I mean?

That's what you want-- even preaching.

I believe that I'm gifted and anointed

to preach the gospel.

But I remember-- Pastor had to really put his arms around me

and just say, hey, Chet, God told me

he needed you to be on that stage this weekend.

Wow.

Anybody else could be there, but he needs you to do it.

And so find confidence in that, find peace in that.

He chose it, he chose you, he's the one that...

So bringing me back to that place

gives me the ability to move through the insecurity,

but 100%, every level of advancement came with a,

are you talking to me?

Like, is this really what you want me to do?

100%, 100%. - Yeah, so good.

Well, you guys, just like us,

celebrated your 20th year in ministry.

And so that is an amazing, amazing thing.

And we celebrate that with you.

I know you're part of the team, just kind of dreaming up

what's it look like to mark this moment

and be grateful for what God's done for 20 years.

I'm curious if going into now the third decade

of ministry for Elevation,

are there any conversations that are happening

and saying, okay, we've been going for 20 years now,

what do we need to be thinking about

or considering as we head into this third decade?

Is that something that is on your mind,

is on the church's mind, how you approaching it?

Well, for sure, I think it's on our mind,

but Pastor Steven said something to our staff,

you know, around the 20 year celebrations.

And it was this idea that Elevation Church's success,

if you will, it wasn't marked by our strategy.

It was marked by our obedience.

Wow.

And it was this commitment to saying like,

if God says do it, will we still be obedient to do it?

And that challenged us all at every level

to be able to just look in the mirror and ask ourselves,

if God says do something, will I do it?

As small as, will I pray in this meeting?

Like, will I stop the meeting and just say,

I invite you in Holy Spirit?

Will I be obedient?

And so I think for us, it made us kind of look in the mirror

and start to just think about what does it mean?

Like, what is God, like prayerfully considering

each day, each season, not thinking five, 10 years,

What are we doing this fall?

You know what I mean?

So again, there isn't this wild,

hey, here's what the next decade's gonna look.

It's not that.

It's like, no, it's obedience.

It's like, do the next thing that God tells us to do,

steward it well, and God will get the glory.

The next thing that I'll say.

And how many kids do you have?

We've got three.

You've got three.

Oldest is?

Oldest is 24.

We got 24, 22, and 19.

And 19, and 19.

Amazing, amazing, amazing, amazing.

And you got twins.

I got twins.

Man, you got the crash course at parenting.

I literally just came from their middle school graduation.

Oh, congratulations.

Middle school graduation, so they're gonna be

in high school.

Yeah.

Reason why I brought it up is we are seeing something,

I think, so beautiful.

And again, for me to be able to witness what's happening

in our pastor's life and in our executive pastor's life,

their kids, their kids are now hitting that,

you know, like Graham is graduating,

he just graduated, just graduated.

And he's, you know, like God's just using him

in a powerful way in our ministry,

like with the youth and it's just this cool thing.

So the reason I'm bringing it up is,

is to be able to see our pastors,

what they've sacrificed, sowed seed into,

that their kids love Jesus and love this church

and wanna be a part of it.

You know what I mean?

Like, so me, I have 14 year old twin boys,

they're going to high school this year

and they love their church.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

So I'm like, that's the, I mean, I'm like,

I'm looking at it.

I'm like, I'm looking at our kids, you know, in this thing.

And I'm like, thank you, Jesus.

Like, how did I get to be in this environment

where my kids, this is normal to see baptisms.

This is normal to see their students praising God,

their friends wanting to be a part of this,

like excited about God, talking about scripture,

you know, all of these things.

So for me, when I'm thinking about these next 10 years,

I'm like, God, what are you about to do

in and through our kids?

And watching what's happening with our pastor's kids

as they're in that 20 year mark, like 20 years old mark,

and starting to see them kind of like

take some territory for God, it's exciting.

It's exciting to see.

Oh, I love that.

What a good picture of faithfulness.

And I love what you said about just being obedient

to the next thing that God's calling to.

I think so many of us get paralyzed by,

what's the big vision?

Where's God supposed to take me 20 years from now

where I'm supposed to be?

And it's funny, when I was earlier in my leadership journey,

I felt like God gave me about a picture

for one year at a time.

and people would ask me all the time,

they'd be like, "What's your five year plan?

"Where do you see yourself in 10 years?"

And I'm telling you, every time I got that question,

I felt like such a failure as a leader

because I felt like I'm supposed to have

this strategic thought out,

we're gonna hit all these milestones,

that this and this,

and I just had to say, listen,

what the Spirit gave me is for this year,

and I'm gonna be faithful to that,

we're gonna be faithful to that.

And here we are 20 years later,

celebrating all kinds of the goodness of God.

Now, I think there have been some things that now,

I think we've got some longer term hopes and dreams

that we feel like God's called us to,

but still by and large every year, it's like,

God, what's the next 12 months look like?

And we just wanna be faithful to that.

Yeah, we wanna be faithful.

We were talking about a decision last night

where we've got some things that we're praying about

that are a little bit more longer term,

and we had a strategic need

that we were talking about in the short term,

and the resources needed for the short-term thing

could make the long-term thing more difficult

to get there, you know?

And we just had to say, listen,

the thing right in front of us is that short-term thing.

That is a need, it's important, and it's critical.

Yeah, that long-term thing is still a value,

but we just gotta be faithful to the thing

right in front of us and say yes to that in obedience.

And then trust, and this was the thing,

and then trust when we get to that next thing,

you know what?

God's gonna pave the way for us.

It's gonna be, I don't know what the plan is.

'Cause it is true by saying yes to this first thing,

it's gonna make that second thing harder.

But we just gotta believe that he's gonna provide

for that second thing.

Beautiful.

I love the verse that says,

"You'll be a lamp into my feet, a light into my path."

And like, it's like feet.

So looking down, it's like one step.

So I have the direction I'm going in.

Like, you know what I mean?

The direction I'm going in,

but it's one step at a time

that's being really illuminated.

And again, I believe sometimes gives people

like a very clear, distinct, prophetic vision for that.

And I think praise God for that.

And when you do that, you gotta be obedient too.

And I think regardless of if it's like,

hey, here's the things that I need to do tomorrow,

or here's the things that I need to do

in the next couple of years,

will you be obedient is the question.

Yeah, right on.

Every leader has to answer that question.

And I believe that's what God honors.

Yeah, right on.

Let me ask you this.

Obviously, Elevation has a culture that is,

let's go, let's get after it.

If you're at Elevation, at least my understanding

would be from friends I have that have worked at Elevation,

if you're somebody who wants to kind of have

a real chill approach to life and ministry,

it's maybe not gonna be as much of a fit.

And again, like we were saying earlier,

that's not good or bad, just the way the organization flows.

So here's my question for you.

in the midst of an organizational culture

that really does say, let's get after it.

How do you keep your own soul healthy?

How do you stay dialed in to the Holy Spirit?

How do you make sure that it's not just all go all the time?

Sure, well, you know, I think a lot of times

people will blame the organization

for their lack of ownership.

And what I'm saying is, is that, you know,

there's a lot of time on your calendar

that you can choose what you do.

Are you doing things that fuel you,

energize you or that are productive?

Or are you doing things that keep you more drained?

And so I would say that there absolutely have been seasons

where I've had to just take inventory

and really, really, really look at my calendar

and budget my time and actually say,

am I stewarding well what God has entrusted me with?

Any leader that comes to me and they say like,

"Yo, I feel like I'm tired.

Like, I feel like this is a lot."

This is like that sort of thing.

And I'm like, "Okay, cool.

Let's go.

We're gonna take the next hour

and you're gonna show me your calendar.

And we are gonna block calendar Sunday through Saturday.

And I want, like, show me,

like, let me see a picture of what this looks like."

So good.

And in the event,

in the event that there is more on an individual

that I think is unhealthy and we come to that conclusion,

I will 100% adjust and help that leader accommodate

what they need to do, whether it's removing responsibility,

shifting responsibility, or changing something,

or making accommodation when that makes sense.

But majority of the time, majority of the time,

it's like, well, what are you doing here?

Or what time did you go to sleep?

What time did you go to sleep?

So you wanna hold me accountable

because you went to bed at two o'clock in the morning

watching Netflix.

That's my fault.

Like that's my fault.

That's the church's fault.

We were working you too hard because of that.

And so I think the best thing to do,

there's a proverb, gosh, I wish I,

I might pull out my phone and find it,

that says pay close attention to your herds.

Like, you know the verse I'm talking about?

It's coming out. - I do.

And-- - I'll look it up

while you're talking, 'cause I know what it is.

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

What's this like, pay close attention to your herds

and know your flocks or something like that.

And this is a verse that a pastor gave us.

His name's LB, I don't know if you've heard of LB,

Larry Bry, he's one of the pastors that started church.

This is a verse he gave us years ago.

And he just reminded us of a shepherd's responsibility

to get close enough to know what's going on.

And so for me, anytime I hear that,

that whether I'm tired, I feel like I'm burning out,

I need to get close enough to be able to decide,

like what's, help you understand what's healthy,

what's not healthy, what's in your control,

what's not in your control.

Did you find that verse?

I did, but it's funny, as we were talking, literally,

my screen just came off, but I got it now in front of me.

This Proverbs 27, verse 23, and I believe this is NIV.

know the state of your flock

and put your heart into caring for your herds.

I think that's what you're looking for.

Know the state of your flock.

We put that verse, we've got like a dashboard,

a spreadsheet that has all of the different things

that we track and measure.

And I put that up there 'cause sometimes,

sometimes ministry people can be like,

no, it's not about the numbers, it's about the people.

And I always wanna say like, listen,

it's not either or,

knowing and being about the number

is being about the people.

We gotta know the state of our flocks.

And so we put that right at the top of the dashboard

so we keep our focus straight

when we're looking at those numbers.

Yeah, I love it.

I love it.

Last thing I'll say along that journey of, you know,

kind of getting close enough to see what's going on

and understanding the season.

'Cause there's a lot of things that you find out

in that space that gives you the ability

to pastor them well.

But personally, I would say that, you know,

one of the things that our pastor said

that I started to dissect was he said,

that God's provision is connected to God's priorities.

God's provision is connected to God's priorities.

And so the challenge to me was like,

okay, well, if I prioritize my life

the way that God has called me to, I'll never run out.

Yeah.

That's the faith, like that's the faith.

I'll never run out.

God's provision is connected to God's priority.

So how should I prioritize my life?

"Before anything else, I am God's son."

So that means, that means my relationship with God,

my father, is more important

than my relationship with my wife.

Yeah.

But she comes second.

So my relationship with my wife is more important

than my relationship with my kids.

My relationship with my kids is more important

than my relationship with any sheep that is at my church

that I am the shepherd of.

Yeah, there it is.

And if I get this out of order, which I do,

from time to time, I do, I make the mistake

and I'm like so into this and I forget to do this

and I don't do it.

But when I slow down and I get that priority right,

regardless if it's, you know,

whatever it is that I'm doing with the Bible reading plan

or journaling thing or whatever,

just getting that time with the Father,

just like not going to him for my next teaching

or my next message, but trying to have a moment

where I'm just like, God, I love you, you love me,

like encourage me, let me tell you thank you.

Let me get that first.

Yeah.

Before I start thinking about my boys

and all of their stuff.

Did I love my wife?

Well, did I tell her she was beautiful?

Did I, you know what I mean?

Am I taking her out regularly?

Or, you know, before I,

will I change a calendar

because of my boys' basketball schedule?

You know, I'm not saying there's times

that I'm gonna miss, absolutely there's times

I'm gonna miss stuff.

But if my life is all out of order,

I believe I'm gonna run out.

But when I do it God's way,

I believe like supernaturally,

there's enough of us to go,

there's enough of our wisdom, our energy,

our spirit to be able to give in those spaces.

And so I think running hard, getting after it,

all of those things, I think usually,

if somebody's struggling with the pace,

usually you find a misalignment

or they schedule their calendars out of order.

And we can help that.

That's something you can fix.

Yeah, right on.

Well, I love that.

I mean, I think, you know, Matthew 6,

where Jesus says, "Seek first the kingdom of God,"

and basically everything's gonna take care of itself,

and the kingdom of God orders the priorities

the way you just ordered them.

And so when you all have that in alignment,

then you just find, oh man, things seem to be working.

It's when they do get out of alignment,

and especially when work becomes God,

as it can be for some time,

that's when we start, you know, having things get wonky.

It sounds like to me, would you say that

one of the primary spiritual practices or disciplines

that feeds your soul is just being still with God

on a regular basis and just hearing his voice and letting,

I mean, is that, would you say when it comes to Chet,

just being dialed in with God, is that it for you?

I wish I could say that.

I wish I could.

(laughing)

I wish I could.

I am extremely extroverted.

Okay.

Extremely extroverted.

I refresh with people.

I could be with people all the time.

If I'm feeling a little sluggish, I'm like,

yo, have everybody at the house.

Like, let's just get together.

Yeah.

And so I know that like at a visceral level with me.

What I'm like really diving into personally right now

is, you know, there's all of the spiritual practices

or things that you should be doing to grow in your faith.

And one of the things we don't talk about

just silence and solitude.

Like no music, like no podcast, no sermon.

You know what I mean?

Just silent, solitude with God.

Like not trying to read and dissect the scripture,

like not trying to just silence and solitude.

And it's hard for me.

I bet it is based on your wiring.

It's hard.

It's hard on a lot of levels.

On one level is because I think I'm like,

sometimes I'm nervous of what I might hear God say.

Sometimes I'm, I mean, I know me.

So sometimes I'm like a bit, like, you know,

shame might try to creep in.

You know what I mean?

I know I didn't handle that well.

I know I was probably too harsh in that car.

Like whatever, like I know myself.

And so sometimes there's a level of like some shame

that tries to creep in or fear of what God might say

or what he might ask me to do.

But what's crazy is, is every time I actually do this,

and I've implemented some things in my regular rhythm

to try to have some more space to do that.

Sure.

I'm so loved.

Yeah.

Like, I'm so loved in that space.

I'm so encouraged.

I'm so strengthened.

Like, I mean, right now, just thinking about it,

I'm starting to get a little emotional,

because of the embrace that I feel

when I actually stop enough to be able to experience

the person, you know, like the person of the Holy Spirit,

like God ministering to me that way.

And yeah, so I, you know, it's a fight to do it,

you know what I mean?

But I'm so grateful when I do.

My kind of, you know, for this season life verse,

if you will, is Luke 15, 31.

It's like, that's my verse right now.

Like, you know what I mean?

Like, the only tattoo I have is my ring tattoo.

Me and my wife got ring tattoos.

But if I was to go get a verse tattooed right now today,

it would be Luke 15, 31.

Why is that?

It's the story of the prodigal son,

but this is what the father says to the older son.

He says, "My son," the father said,

"you are always with me and everything I have is yours."

My son, the father said,

"you are always with me and everything I have is yours."

And so it just reminds me,

I find my identity in being a son of God.

I'm never alone.

I'm never alone.

Like I'm not battling by myself.

I don't gotta figure out stuff by myself.

I got help.

Yeah. - And three,

everything I have is yours.

Yeah.

I like, I mean, I'm like, I like nothing.

I like nothing.

In believing that, believing that.

Now, of course, there's things that come up and like,

yo, I don't know where this is gonna come from.

But by faith, by faith,

He says, "Everything I have is yours."

And so in that time of just like drilling down

to understanding God as a father,

being in that space with him has kind of revealed

so much of his love that I don't have to achieve,

I don't have to earn.

And I'm loving the results of it,

but it's a fight to do it.

And maybe somebody's listening and they're like,

"Yo, I thought he was gonna say..."

Like sometimes people just like, "I just love..."

And I'm like, I'm growing in that right now.

That's good.

Well, I appreciate your transparency

because there's probably a lot of people saying,

thank you 'cause I'm not the only one out here who struggles

is probably what a lot of people are saying.

You know, I love to think about spiritual practices

or disciplines this way.

I think there are, there's a book by a guy named Gary Thomas

called "Sacred Pathways" and he basically talks

about different ways people connect with God.

Sometimes some people really come alive to God

when they're in community.

Some people really come alive to God when they're serving.

man, it's not about like, oh, I gotta serve.

It's like something just comes up alive.

Some people get in nature and it's just like crazy.

Other people get in nature and they're just distracted.

Some people it's like studying the word.

And so we all have these different ways

that are just right at the bullseye.

And for you, it's great.

Being with people is important.

But what he also says is there are some core disciplines

that you see in scripture and definitely in Jesus' life.

Being a person who studies and meditates on the word of God,

being a person who gets away from the noise,

that we can't neglect those.

And when we do practice those,

even if it takes some labor, God shows up.

And I think what you said is so good

'cause those are those intimate places.

The verse I was thinking of as you were talking about

the prodigal son, I love where God speaks over Jesus' life

right at the beginning of his ministry.

And he says, "You are my son whom I love.

"With you, I am well pleased."

And I had a whole season of my life

where I had to come back to that every single day

because I was feeling anxious

and it was largely my anxiety was coming out

of trying to perform at a certain level

and that was trying to perform

because my identity was not secure.

And so I had to just come back to that over and over again,

just in the alone times, I love that.

Well, I'm gonna share something

that I don't believe I've shared publicly

in terms of this revelation yet,

but you just brought it up.

And so I'm gonna share it.

Yeah.

We see Jesus go to the father all the time.

Yeah.

Disciples looking for him, where's Jesus at?

And he done stole away,

he's hiding somewhere with the father, okay?

There's only two times that we see God

talk to Jesus, the son.

Only two times that we hear what he says to him.

The first time, Jesus getting baptized,

he says, "This is my son who I'm loved

"and I'm well pleased."

What's the second time?

Well, I'm thinking that he said that,

I'm thinking of two things.

The transfiguration moment is another time.

That is the only other time.

Yeah, 'cause I was trying to think

in the garden of Gethsemane, he doesn't say,

you know, you see Jesus praying,

if you can take this from me, take this cup from me,

but you don't hear the Father's voice in there.

So that, do you know what I think?

You don't hear the Father's voice.

Yeah, all right, so transfiguration.

Here's the thing.

What does he say at the transfiguration?

Same thing.

This is my son, listen to him.

The exact same, no, he says, "This is my son,

"whom I love."

And then listen to him, that's what it is.

And then listen to him.

The thing about this blew my mind.

All of Jesus's life, we only see God say two things,

two times we see God talk to him.

So good.

And he doubles down on the simplicity

of reminding Jesus who he is.

It would have made sense for God to say,

this is the Messiah, the savior of the world.

He's king of kings, Lord of lords.

He has all power and authority.

He doesn't do that.

The first time he ain't even started his ministry yet.

Second time he's done some things.

It didn't change.

It didn't change.

This is my son whom I love and I'm well pleased.

And so the way that God spoke to me was

before Jesus could be savior of the world,

he had to be God's son first.

Yeah, so good.

in order for you and I to do anything

that God's called us to do, to be a great husband,

to be a great father, to be a great pastor.

Before I do any of that, before I do anything,

God wants me to know before any of that, you're my son.

If Jesus had to be reminded of that,

if Jesus had to be reminded of that,

just like you said, every day I need to do it,

every day I need to do it,

we gotta come back to this truth.

And this has been something that's been personal to me

'cause it blew my mind.

I couldn't believe that that was the only two times

that we saw God speak to Jesus.

Yeah, that's a great, awesome.

Yeah, that's such great observation.

And I think sometimes we still,

despite knowing Jesus was fully human,

we think he didn't need to hear

those kind of affirmations from the Father.

He was Jesus.

I mean, he was fully human, fully divine.

But what does it say that even Jesus in his perfection

needed to hear his identity affirmed, his value affirmed,

his relationship to the Father affirmed,

but he need to build his ministry out of that place,

out of acceptance, not build his ministry towards

or for acceptance.

Yeah, that's so good.

That's a great, I'm thinking you gotta preach that sometime.

Well, to be honest, I want you to pray for me.

I want you to pray for me.

I actually have been writing about this.

This has been a concept that I've been writing around,

this idea of being a son first.

And this idea has just been ringing in my spirit

around rediscovering the strength of being God's son.

Wow.

You know, there's a lot of books that we read

about what it means to be a man.

I didn't, so I'll say it this way.

I'm not telling anybody to stay being a boy.

Sure.

You grow up into being a man,

but you do not grow out of being a son.

There it is.

What does that mean?

How does that change my life?

And I've just been wrestling with this

and doing a lot of research and studying.

And that's why I haven't shared it yet.

I don't know why you got me talking about this right now.

(laughing)

But I just feel free to be able to express

this truth that God's been doing in my life.

It's probably been the greatest kind of work

he's been doing in me over the last few years

of just bringing me back to that place

and then deconstructing what that actually means

and looks like.

And then juxtaposing the strength of being a man

versus the weakness of being a son

and the beauty of that.

And how does that play out in your life?

And so yeah, pray for me that I'll be able

to complete that work and see what God does.

I think, man, I will pray for you in that.

And I think God's given you a word

that is gonna make a difference in people's lives.

I think it's amazing to me, one,

how many people just do not have a dad

a father figure in their lives to start with.

And so we really need to get in touch with the fatherhood of God, particularly guys,

and particularly those if they didn't have a father.

And I also think on the flip side, I'm gonna flip it on you, to be even thinking, see,

now you want me to write your book for you, I know, so I'm just kidding, I'm joking.

But like, not just what does it mean to be a son, but as we're sitting here talking,

I'm thinking about the fathers, the fact that the father said those words to his son, and

what does that mean now for me as a father

to be that kind of role and to take on the same,

to flip it and take it on that same way?

So I think that's great.

I think God's giving you word.

Hey, I wanna be sensitive to time.

If you're good, I'm gonna hit one last question

and we'll wrap it up.

I know we started late

'cause of our technical difficulties here.

So we got limited time.

But you've had obviously an incredible leadership journey

and God's using you.

He's got great plans in front of you.

I see his favor on your life, on your teaching.

I listened to a message.

Maybe it was a Sunday after Easter.

I think I popped up on YouTube and there's,

I'm like, there's Chet right on my YouTube.

What's going on with that?

And I listened to it.

I was like, oh my goodness, it was so strong.

Here's my question for you.

Had this great leadership journey.

If you were speaking right now to a leader

who's just a younger leader right at the beginning

of their leadership journey, could be in the church,

could be in the marketplace,

how would you coach them to lay down a foundation

that paves the way for God to use them

in every bit to their full potential?

Two things.

Two things I would say that I've experienced in my journey

that I think are pivotal to the foundation.

First is, Jesus says, "The greatest of these serve."

And so I think first,

you need to have a greater perspective of leadership

and the meaning of what it means to serve the people

that God's trusted you with.

And so, you know, really, really, really doing the work

on your heart to be able to recognize,

do I have a servant's heart?

Like, you know what I mean?

Like we all have, again, I like being applauded.

I like being celebrated.

We all, you know what I mean?

Like it feels good.

But we have to check our heart and get back to the place

of like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

God's trusted me with a group of people.

He's trusted me with an assignment.

He's trusted me with something to, whatever.

Am I doing it as service unto the Lord

in service to the people that He's trusted me with?

They need to kind of-

How do you know when you're in that place of service

you wanna be and how do you know when you're not?

Is it just personal inside discernment

or is there a pattern of thinking you can tell?

When you do not need applause.

When you do not need the pat on the back.

I think that's when you've really got to the place of,

here's another thing within our culture we say is,

God's the master of the harvest,

but I'm the master of the seed.

And so what I've learned is,

how do I become content in sowing?

And how can I, at the end of the day,

look in the mirror and give myself an applause

and say, "You sowed today.

You served today.

I gave of myself."

I didn't take, so, I mean,

we're filming a podcast right now,

but let's say I'm about to go into a meeting

with a couple of interns.

Do I treat them different than this?

Do I prepare less for that teaching

than what I did preaching at Valentine?

These are ways that you can start to ring your heart

and say like, have I lost sight that I'm serving God

and I'm serving people?

And so when you do that, you can have a lot of fun.

'Cause you know what I mean?

You can have a lot of fun 'cause there's a lot of people

that I get to help and nobody knows.

You know what I mean?

And it's like, and it feels so good to be able to like,

do that unto the Lord.

And I don't need the validation.

Like I don't need that.

My wife loves me.

So serving, serving, serving, serving.

That's good.

The next thing would be learning, learning, learning

the art and what I would say would be the theology

of being an empowering leader.

I'd say the art and theology.

I think a lot of times we look at empowerment

simply as a means for greater productivity.

Right, like just a means to get more done quicker.

Right.

Well, when I look at Jesus's life,

I see a theology, a basis for why empowerment

isn't man's idea, but God's idea.

So here's what I mean.

Matthew 28, Jesus gives the Great Commission,

biggest assignment in the world.

Hey guys, go ye therefore and preach.

I'm gonna give you King James.

Preach.

(laughing)

Baptized in the name of the Father, the Son,

and the Holy Spirit.

Yeah. - Okay.

Massive, massive thing.

This is what we're gonna do.

What happens right afterwards?

You're not asking rhetorical.

Yeah, he did.

Well, you're like he ascends to heaven and sets them out.

What are you going for more detail than that?

Yeah.

He left.

Yeah.

I think we got a leaders,

a lot of leaders that don't know how to leave.

Yeah, that's good.

Empowerment is when you can take a step back,

leave the room, leave the assignment,

leave the space in the hands of someone else.

Learning to do that, that's empowerment.

Yeah.

This isn't about delegating tasks.

This is about walking out the theology of Ephesians 4.

To equip the saints for the work of ministry, not to do it all.

Right on, yeah.

And so what does that mean for you to start to deconstruct that, understand that, learn

how to do that well, learn how to do that well.

And again, when you start seeing that process of empowering leaders that way, then you get

to see the multiplication effect.

The last thing I'll say about being an empowering leader

on this topic, this idea, and I don't know,

again, this is one of those things where I'm like,

we need to talk about this more in leadership.

The only reason why we have majority of the New Testament,

Paul's letters, is because he planted a church and left.

That's right, that's right.

We wouldn't have his letters if he didn't leave.

What an empowering leader to start this church in Ephesus,

to start this church in Galatia,

to start this church in Colossia,

to start the church and say,

"I empower you to take this forth."

I'm leaving.

Right on.

I'm not going to be in the room.

I'm not gonna be with you guys.

I empower you to do it.

And then we get his letters.

We don't get those letters if he wasn't an empowering leader.

Right on.

My biggest plea, I think, to leaders at the beginning,

I'd say at every level, maybe this is a foundational

and something you never leave,

is how do I keep that servant's heart

and how do I keep learning how to empower?

How do I create space for others to be able to step into

just the same way that Jesus did for us?

Yeah, that's so good.

And you know, in some ways,

they're related to one another

because if you're serving people well,

if you've got that heart of service,

you want to empower them,

You want to see them flourish.

You want them to step in the next opportunity.

And if you've got a heart that says,

God is a God of abundance,

sometimes people are afraid to empower

because they're worried,

well, what if they get a bigger slice of the pie?

Man, God isn't worried about how big the pie is.

That pie is just gonna get bigger and bigger

as we let people step in and step up to their potential.

It's gonna free us up to continue to do that

in our own lives.

So we just wanna have that.

It's again, it's how do I serve my people best?

And part of it is giving ministry,

giving opportunity, giving leadership away.

So that's a great word to end on.

And man, Chet, I just, man,

I just am such a fan of your leadership

and what God's doing in your life and your family.

You're a great dad, you're a great husband,

you're a great pastor,

and we are gonna be so privileged

to have you hanging with us here in Michigan

in the good weather time of the year too.

You're gonna come here, you're gonna be like,

I gotta move here.

And then you're gonna just,

we'll make sure we don't invite you back in the wintertime.

So it's gonna be a great visit.

Yeah, we'll look forward to a conversation soon, okay?

Beautiful.

All right, take care.

I hope you're encouraged by that conversation

with my friend Chet Pete.

And I really wanna just end today

by reminding us of something Chet said,

which is that idea that if you are in Jesus Christ,

you are accepted as a son or a daughter of God.

It's so easy to try to perform for acceptance,

but I want you to live and work and minister

and serve from acceptance.

You've been accepted because of Jesus.

You are a child, you've been adopted.

You have a place in his family.

And so you don't need to try to perform,

to earn pats on the back and kudos

and affirmations from the world.

You are already affirmed in Christ.

And now out of that place,

out of an experience with the gospel,

you can live for him and live free from the need

to receive all kinds of applause and affirmations.

When they come, that's a great thing,

but you don't need to have them come.

So I hope you enjoyed the conversation today.

If you did, again, please rate and review the pod.

That's a great help and encouragement to us.

This has been a production of Getty Church

and we've got all kinds of great conversations on the way.

So until next time, know God made you to advance.