Simon Dell (00:02)
it's already counted in. there we go. Sorry.

Fiona Campbell (00:04)
That's okay.

Simon Dell (00:06)
It all went bit weird. Sorry. Welcome to another CMO marketing podcast. My name is Simon Dell. I'm the CEO of CMO. We are a

National Marketing Solutions Company. I completely forgot what we do there for a minute. And I have as my special guest today, a lovely person called Fiona Campbell. I'm not gonna explain what Fiona does, because I'm gonna let Fiona do that herself. So welcome to the show, Fiona.

Fiona Campbell (00:38)
Hi,

thank you for having me, Simon. Well.

Simon Dell (00:40)
So

yes, us, give us the Fiona edited highlights, the sort of, the five minute show reel, the sizzle reel as it were.

Fiona Campbell (00:50)
Sure thing. So I

do have my own Australian virtual assistant agency called Thought Penny. But right now that's closed for business. Our full book of clients are not growing any further. So at the moment, my current project is my sister business, which is the virtual assistant lead network. So essentially what that is, it's a jobs board for

virtual assistants and online business managers who are based in Australia. And unlike other platforms like Seek, it's free for businesses to list their ongoing roles or short term projects or one-off tasks, et cetera, on our jobs board. And that's because we have a membership base of those Australian VAs and OBMs who are accessing those jobs board and our training and webinars, et cetera. So.

Yeah, going strong. It's been going for a few years now and we have over 300 members and yeah, it's run on a very lean team.

Simon Dell (01:56)
Mm-hmm.

Fiona Campbell (01:57)
From the beginning, before AI was a thing, it was already a lean team of virtual assistants created by virtual assistants, run by virtual assistants for virtual assistants. yeah, virtual assistants, just to throw that word in and phrase in again. But yeah, we've just started using Claude.

to help with the operations there and power through even more work, keeping

Simon Dell (02:21)
Mm-hmm.

Fiona Campbell (02:22)
our existing team and yeah, really exciting what we're seeing.

Simon Dell (02:24)
Yeah, okay. Okay. So

obviously, we're going to talk today that the predominant conversation is obviously AI. We are bombarded with all sorts of information about AI every day, in pretty much every medium that we're in. What do you what are you personally using it for at the moment? What's the go to for you day to day?

Fiona Campbell (02:53)
Yeah, sure. we do use it to help organize our content, not necessarily create our content. Like people typically are using AI for us. We're predominantly using AI to document our business and set up procedures and protocols. And it's the day-to-day running of the business itself. So important to know though that

I do think it's really important anyone who wants to do this, they look at what plan they're using and the settings. I think it's important to make sure that no one on your team is able to share their conversations with the platform. For instance, we're using Claude. I'm using the team's plan so that I can enforce that no one is able to share their chats with Claude.

for them to, for Claude to learn from, et cetera. And also it's, they're not able to share public links to any chats they have. It's all kept internal. So that gives us, you know, assurity that it's not going anywhere. So we can use it to its full abilities. And so, yeah, it knows exactly how our businesses run.

We have shared projects with that team's plan. can have shared projects and each project has shared files, shared knowledge. So the chats themselves, whoever from my team I put in that project, they can't see each other's chats unless that's shared with the team. Though the knowledge files that it's pulling from are all shared. And so what

Simon Dell (04:40)
Okay.

Fiona Campbell (04:41)
I mean by that, it's markdown files and the types of files are, well, a record of decisions that we make, a backlog of

problems we've seen that aren't exactly a priority, but someone should probably fix those next time we get a chance. There's our tone of voice, our brand and style guide to say, no, that color red isn't, it looks similar, but it's not quite right. I'm a bit pedantic and a bit of a perfectionist. And I like consistency, not just visually, but with the words we use, et cetera. There are definitely some things that I don't want our brand ever to say like mompreneur.

or anything like that. It's yeah.

Simon Dell (05:17)
Yeah. Eww. that's a terrible word. We all hate that word.

Fiona Campbell (05:22)
Yeah, I'm not happy with it and everyone who wants to use it go for it, but that's a decision I've made for my business and it means that I can put those rules in place. And I can even tell Claude and next time someone tries to use it on my team is go. This is what Fiona thinks about this and have an automatic warning system in there.

Simon Dell (05:42)
Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (05:42)
And visually as well, it's you know if you're trying to.

make this color work with this color. Fiona's not going to be happy about that. This is the reason why. And I guess a big part of that as well is that's all well and good, but it shouldn't, the owners can't all be on me to build that out. Though I did nerd out over one weekend and build out a big chunk of how well this works because that's my

Simon Dell (06:06)
Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (06:07)
thing. But it is about educating your team as to how we're going to use it.

and how we're going to maintain it. And it only works if you spot something in an error, know, Claude's made a suggestion and you know it's wrong. And we explained to Claude, no, we never ever do this because of this. And it will update the project files. So the next time someone goes to do it and I'm in a good place because I've, every one of my team has been with me for a while. We already know the rules and what it should be, but we're still teaching Claude.

that when it makes a suggestion, it's, I'm going to suggest this because according to the brand guidelines or according to the protocol, we do this to avoid this risk, et cetera. So it's not

Simon Dell (06:56)
Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (06:56)
just about just telling someone this is a new person, for example, this is the way we do things in our business. It's also

Simon Dell (07:03)
Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (07:04)
educating them on the reason why the way you'd bring on any staff member before you had AI,

Simon Dell (07:09)
Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (07:10)
you explain why we do things the way we do, because they're going to remember it.

better and have buy in to that decision.

Simon Dell (07:17)
Do

you think that with those guidelines, I mean, how rigid are those guidelines? Because this is obviously one of the big challenges that you find with AI is that it's not going to suggest anything new. There's no flexibility. It's being governed by a certain set of rules. mean, to a degree, that's all businesses irrespective of whether you're using or not using AI.

Do you find there's any out of the box thinking? Do you think it's just following a set of patterns that it's supposed to do and that that is potentially going to hold you back in the long term?

Fiona Campbell (08:01)
Great question. So lot of thoughts on this. First, I don't think it's possible for it to have out of the box thinking because it's pulling from learnt behaviours. But I do find that Claude is a lot better than chat GPT in terms of understanding nuances. And I do think we've really landed on something great here where we don't just say this is the rule and this is the rule.

Claude has the rule and it has the reason why. if it finds a situation that doesn't quite fit in that box, I might tell it to do something and it will say, this isn't really in line with your protocol, but I can see here that this is different to the example in our reason why for this. then I'll say, and it'll ask me if I'm sure. And if I say, I'm sure, I'll go, right.

well, let's document this nuance here. So it keeps adding layers. it might be, know, customer service as an example, it's helping us to triage the inbox and provide context. So I've still got the same team member going through emails and dealing with inquiries, but the time it would have taken her to go and check their membership record and check, you know,

the content, the history of email comms we've had with this person is really minimized. And so,

Simon Dell (09:30)
Yeah. Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (09:34)
and it's not just that, know, Claude's also going, I know that they've also gone and downloaded this lead magnet. We shouldn't suggest that they go and get this resource because they've already got it and they've opened it. It knows so much more than we would know if we want to answer someone quickly, we're not going to go and find every single little detail or know that

they've been a customer on and off for the last four years, et cetera. And so with that out of the box thinking.

It's not out of the box thinking, but there's an element of agreeing or just toeing the line and agreeing with everything you say. And I think it's important to put in your instructions that it should question every decision. And if someone is going, no, we need to go against protocol and go this way, it's insisting on asking for the explanation why. that it can then say, yeah.

Simon Dell (10:32)
Yeah, let's

talk about mistakes because obviously I think that's something that people are concerned about. And I'm going

Fiona Campbell (10:44)
Come on.

Simon Dell (10:44)
to use an example that I literally found two minutes before I spoke to you. So I have Claude integrated into an e-commerce store, it's a Shopify store, which

Fiona Campbell (10:55)
Mm-hmm.

Simon Dell (10:56)
will have something like 300 or 400 SKUs on.

orders come in,

Fiona Campbell (11:04)
Mm-hmm.

Simon Dell (11:05)
the invoices are turned into CSV files, the CSV file is uploaded to Shopify, this is all done by Claude, not me, and the quantity on hand is updated, or if it's a new product, Shopify will build the product, put it in stock. So what might take somebody,

hours and hours and hours and hours of work, right, is now being done completely automated by Claude. Claude put in a backorder stock item two weeks ago that was a backorder stock item. It wasn't coming into stock. was listed in the invoices backorder, but Claude has misread it and

Fiona Campbell (11:53)
you

Simon Dell (11:54)
put it into stock. And one of the items that isn't in stock has been sold. Now,

It's not a major disaster. You know, we can sit there and go back to the client and go, hey, that product doesn't exist. We haven't had it arrive yet. We're really sorry. Do want us to refund your money?

Fiona Campbell (12:14)
Mm.

Simon Dell (12:14)
That's not a problem. But that's me on a smaller scale with items that are, you know, not a major issue. What do you say to the people who would say that is a...

an enclosed example in a small space of a problem that could go wrong isn't a major issue. But as your business gets bigger and more significant and more important, those mistakes are much more significant and potentially much more costly than this mistake would be.

Fiona Campbell (12:52)
Yes, definitely. Okay, so what I'd say is that you need to treat your AI like it is a person. You wouldn't bring in someone new and so say, you've done it right once. I'm just going to stop monitoring the work that you do and let you go off. It is, there are going to be times. I still think that there are instances where Claude's making less mistakes.

Well, not mistake, sorry. know, picking up... When my team's proofreading a listing, for example, there is so much work that goes in when someone submits a listing, so for a VA role, and we need to proofread it. There are so many things that go into that, including making sure it's not a scam. And, you know, people are really clever, but it's...

things are going to slip through, mistakes are going to be made if you're working with a human team member, even someone that's been with you for a while. And so what you do with a human is you put things in place, checks in place, you you have work being checked at certain points. And yes, I've got my Claude making errors, but that's why we always have a, we're monitoring closely the first.

know, 100 times it does something very, very closely, but even still, we've got that human checkpoint at each. So as that example with the listings coming in, we get alerted straight away on Slack and via email, et cetera. We want to jump on it as soon as there's a listing comes, that's, you know, the bread and butter for our business is jobs for our jobs board. So we're

Simon Dell (14:40)
Yeah. Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (14:42)
going in, but the first thing we do now is we say, Hey, Claude, we've got a new listing and

We've taken it through step by step what we would do, but we still do it. So that's something we're never ever going to fully automate. But, and we have a human, but we've taught it to at each stage of the process, it's telling us what it's about to do. We quickly read it and we give it the go ahead, the green light. There are

Simon Dell (15:10)
Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (15:11)
some things that don't need, you know, that aren't that.

that critical or don't have that much risk that don't need that. But those sorts of processes where it could go wrong, think just having a human have a look go, this right at some point? you know, how, like, how did you find out that is it because that order was placed that you found out that Claude had created that? So maybe there needs to be something in place where

If you put a rule in place, if you're ever going to do this, you need human sign-off first. Send an email, or send an assigner task, or send a Slack message just to flag, hey, I just did something cool. Someone might better be aware of this before someone orders something that doesn't exist. And for that same reason as well, I have in my organisation rules that Claude never sends an email. It will draft.

a million emails, but it's told not to send. And yeah, I do think that you need that. Well, what would you do with a new hire? Would you just tell them to go ahead and make it happen? And maybe you would. Maybe you're fine with taking those risks, but surely you're deciding

Simon Dell (16:27)
Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (16:29)
in what context is like, what's

Simon Dell (16:31)
Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (16:31)
the worst that can happen with this type of in this area of my business, this business function?

Whereas you might be more protective and careful with another. But we've had lots of conversations where we tell Claude, mate, we don't say you're an idiot, but we might as well. But it's not just, hey, you've made a mistake. saying, it's the conversation you have with a real human and saying, can we work out why the mistake happened? What do we do? What do we put in place to make sure it doesn't happen again?

and building that. And I think as well that that's if you're going to build a skill in Claude or an automation using Claude, you should first be doing it in chat, in projects and really refining it and having a human work with every step until it doesn't make a mistake, you know, a hundred times.

Simon Dell (17:25)
Yeah,

okay. With all this talk, do your staff ever feel that their days are numbered?

Fiona Campbell (17:35)
No. And

well, I'm speaking on their behalf, but I'd like to think not if you're listening, no. And the way I very

Simon Dell (17:44)
We don't bring that.

Fiona Campbell (17:47)
I talk about the elephant in the room with that as well. Hey, everyone, we're using this great thing. look at this job that used to take all this time. They've got we've got a backlog of things that we want to work on. They've got their own passion projects within the business that they have to keep pushing down because it hasn't been a priority.

But now this is freeing up their time and it's not just that. They're still doing the check. they're still looking at it. Claude's coming back and saying, I don't think this is a scam because of these things. And also I checked these 50 other things that you would never have thought to check to make sure that this person is real.

Simon Dell (18:25)
Right.

Fiona Campbell (18:27)
But they're still involved. It's almost like, it's not almost, they have. They've been promoted to more of a management.

position. So because I also only hire VA's that have that initiative that I can entrust them with responsibilities, not just spoon feed

Simon Dell (18:45)
Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (18:45)
them tasks. And so, you know, their job is to make sure it's to use Claude as a tool or even as, you know, their junior staff member and get it to do the legwork. But now I say, well, now that you've got it doing that, it's your responsibility to make sure that

we have a blog post lined up for the next three months that we have, you know, we're planning ahead on finding new people to present webinars to our members, et cetera, because you're not doing that work that, to be honest, that might be why some people leave a job as well, whether it's employees or a junior VA who's becoming more ambitious. It's if you're getting someone to do the boring work that could be done by...

Simon Dell (19:35)
Well, I mean, but then again, then again, I'm just, you know, just playing devil's advocate here. The challenge that

Fiona Campbell (19:39)
Yeah.

Simon Dell (19:41)
a lot of us have got to where we've got to in our lives and learn the skills by doing the boring work. And

Fiona Campbell (19:48)
Thank

Simon Dell (19:50)
doing the boring work is part and parcel of, I mean, I always think about the...

you know, the famous tennis players and, or, you know, the famous story of Tiger Woods, who was, you know, when he was a young golfer was, was, you know, sitting, hitting out, hitting balls, you know, far longer than anybody else was out in the wind and out in the rain, out in the thunderstorms and all those kinds of things. That boring

Fiona Campbell (20:15)
you

Simon Dell (20:16)
repetition that we've done in our training lives is what builds our skillset and our muscle memory and knowledge base of all these kinds

things into becoming

Fiona Campbell (20:27)
Yeah.

Simon Dell (20:28)
understanding who we are now. And if we're removing that from somebody, how do they get to, know, how do they become who they want to become without that experience?

Fiona Campbell (20:44)
Yeah, I guess I haven't given that enough thought because I haven't had to because I've always hired, you know, at that level where

Simon Dell (20:53)
Mm.

Fiona Campbell (20:54)
they're coming in and to the point where they can tell me what they think needs to be done and take

Simon Dell (20:59)
Yeah,

Fiona Campbell (21:00)
over. But in terms of the up and coming, you know, fresh grads out of uni who maybe that is something to worry about that they're not trying to do stuff.

from scratch. And I still think in that instance that

AI is useful in terms of helping to teach them how they can improve what they've done, but maybe we do need to put something in place for that next generation where it's, no, you need, you're not going to learn how it's done. I mean, there's a reason that my team can look at what Claude's done and say, no, that's wrong. I know you've put forward a compelling argument

Simon Dell (21:43)
Mm.

Fiona Campbell (21:44)
as to why we should do it this way.

But I'm here to tell you, I'm reading that and you're going to annoy people. know, Claude will draft stuff all the time. I'd say that, you know, more than 50 % of what it writes, we'll copy it, paste it and completely reword it to be us and to be human. Much quicker than starting with a blank canvas for sure. But you're

Simon Dell (22:08)
Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (22:08)
right. You know, there's a reason that we know what we need to change it to. And that's because we're clinging on to who we are.

as people and being

Simon Dell (22:17)
Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (22:19)
genuine. And we are telling Claude, cut the fluff. We don't need to be condescending or add in words for the sake of it.

Simon Dell (22:31)
Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (22:33)
Two word sentences, fine sometimes. And so, yeah, that's a really interesting concept that I'm going to go think about all day now.

Simon Dell (22:41)
What? Yeah,

right. Yeah, I'll send you away to have a think about that and we can we can discuss that later today. So what are you what are you integrating with Claude? So I'm going to preface that question by talking about what I've integrated with Claude. I think the three main things, four main things would be it's currently whilst we're talking, it is currently looking through my Gmail account, trying to find things in my Gmail account.

of following certain patterns and certain rules that I've asked it to look for. So it's

Fiona Campbell (23:12)
Mm.

Simon Dell (23:14)
looking through my Gmail. I've integrated it with Canva, but that hasn't been particularly successful. We're still struggling from a design perspective in terms of getting it to do certain things, but that's probably me not having spent a lot of time looking at it.

And then Clavio and Shopify which it has been super successful with so for me. That's where I'm integrating we use pipe drive on a company basis

Fiona Campbell (23:43)
yeah.

Simon Dell (23:45)
And We're trying to integrate it in fully into pipe drive So yeah, there's lots of places that we're using it and With with different levels of success so

So how about you? What's been the sort of standout integration from you?

Fiona Campbell (24:08)
Okay,

so first on the Canva thing, yeah, completely agree. It's good at Canva in terms of looking at what someone's created and reviewing it and saying, looks like they've not used your fonts or your brand colors and this is what needs

Simon Dell (24:23)
Okay.

Fiona Campbell (24:23)
to be fixed, but I haven't used it to create images. I have set up a custom MCP for something that can generate.

images with AI, we're not really using it, I was just nerding out once I'm playing with it. But have you checked out Claude Design?

Simon Dell (24:45)
Not to a massive degree just yet. I literally started thinking about it the other day.

Fiona Campbell (24:47)
Okay, so you do need time because it is a rabbit hole and once you realize

what it can do, it's a fun way to procrastinate. But what I'd suggest is if you are going to do it, well, this suggestion works for us because we already have comprehensive documentation on our brand and style guide in projects. just to do a quick segue.

So one of my favorite integrations is I've done a custom MCP with AI Engine. So AI Engine is a plugin on our WordPress website.

Simon Dell (25:26)
you

Fiona Campbell (25:27)
And now I can, I'll have a website page. So I've still used copywriters and I got a copywriter to put together our about page, our new about page, four years in a business and only just wrote our about page, breaking all the rules. But.

It was fantastic. So I gave it the copy and I then said, I've got the copy. The copy is approved. I love it. Help me build the website. And then it built the page. And then I gave it image files for Post-it notes. And then

Simon Dell (26:05)
Yep.

Fiona Campbell (26:05)
I worked with it to say, I still haven't decided, you know.

where these work or it'll put one there and I'll go, those colors clash. And so I write into the rules, go never ever let anyone put this colored post-it note when we have this background, et cetera. I'm really pedantic and that might

Simon Dell (26:24)
Right.

Fiona Campbell (26:25)
be a problem sometimes, but it's working so far. it's, know, I'm then I've got the preview page. So it's not published yet, but I've got the preview page on my desktop computer. And then I'm talking to Claud on my phone using voice.

And so I'm

Simon Dell (26:39)
Yep.

Fiona Campbell (26:40)
just looking at it and saying, and I don't know what the problem is, whether it's a margin or padding or you know how sometimes when you go, there's just that one niggling thing that's annoying me about that page and you want to change it. And I would spend ages fiddling and then looking to see how it renders and then going back and going back. I can just say, I don't know what the problem is, but I can see the gap between that and that is not the same as the gap between that and that. Or

the alignment of where this image is to the text should be here. I'm just saying that by voice and then it's

Simon Dell (27:12)
Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (27:12)
going away and fixing the page without me touching a thing. I just refresh the preview and see what it's fixed and just talking through how you want your website to change is pretty exciting. But you know, it's through activity like that that we've fully documented our brand and style guide to the point where if someone tries to put that colored post-it note on that background, goes, Fiona wants to know if you want the website to look like shit. And then,

And so it's documented to that point. Then I go, I've just discovered Claude design. Write me a brief because in Claude design, it's not just creating images, et cetera. It can create HTML website files, but you create a design system first. So you teach it what your brand colors are. All of that stuff I just talked about. But first, if you start with your chat that already knows all this stuff about you, I say,

you need to tell it to learn about itself. So I said, go and research everything you can about Claude design functionality, then write me a brief to go and put in to create that design system. So I'm not filling in all their fields. It's all done for me, because I've already told one Claude employee he wants what to do, and so it can then delegate.

Simon Dell (28:29)
Yeah.

Fiona Campbell (28:30)
And then from there, yeah, it's...

pretty spectacular, like it's leaps and bounds above every other automated design that I can think of.

Simon Dell (28:41)
Well, I'm gonna have to go and have a play around with it. The interesting thing is, and I think here's another challenge, is that I have burnt through all of my credits yesterday. So I'm gonna have to upgrade it to a slightly higher capacity level.

But yeah, that's been my sort of challenge. But I've been using it extremely heavily this week. you know, in the process of being involved in setting up another business and making sure that that's all set up, ready for people to come in and run it so that I don't have to.

Fiona Campbell (29:18)
Yeah, wow.

Simon Dell (29:21)
But look, thank you for everything, all your ideas and suggestions. It is a rabbit hole that we can dive into for hours on end. But

Fiona Campbell (29:30)
Mm.

Simon Dell (29:31)
what I was going to ask you, the final question today,

If a business owner is sort of looking at it and scratching their head and going, hey, I need to start doing this, what's a good starting point for them?

Fiona Campbell (29:46)
So, in an ideal world, a business already has some procedures documented, talking to lots of VAC, because I know that many people have everything in their head. And so in that case, I would defer very first chat. I'd set up that Claude account, and this is not sponsored by Claude, and I would, the first conversation would be,

I want to document how my business runs. I need you to interview me and create markdown files that would allow any other user to come in and ask a question about how my business operates. And as part of that prompt, say, you need to set it up so that every time you interact with me, you're updating that knowledge bank.

And that's something that I have had to enforce for me for my, my organisation rules. I've now put it into a skill now that I've tested it quite a few times. But one of it is whenever new knowledge is learnt or a correction is made, or there's a nuance that it needs to document, or, you know, we've written a new customer service reply. You know, it says, make sure you tell me what like the final version that you sent to the customer so it can learn.

in this situation, is how we deal with it. It's that making sure, enforcing that anything new is put back into those files so that you're continuously improving. It's not that you need to document every single thing about your business. It's teaching Claude that it needs to work with you as you work to build up those files. And I think the backlog one is one of the most important ones as well because

you sometimes you just, know what your priority is. You know, you've got to get something done and it goes, well, I've picked up this error here. This is something on the website that needs to be fixed. And, know, you know, sometimes you don't have time to go on, create an Asana task and, or it doesn't even need one. You just go, just tell me the next time I'm working on this page of the website, et cetera, we'll fix it then. So yeah, it's, it's documentation is the most important thing and, and making sure that

you don't give up if it does the wrong thing, it doesn't do what you like or what it gives you is a rubbish, tell it it's rubbish and tell it why. then, say you made this mistake, why did you make it? What do we do to make sure it doesn't happen again? Treat it like you would a person

Simon Dell (32:29)
Yep.

Fiona Campbell (32:31)
and don't assume that it's going to make no errors because there's topical with the AI slot button. But I think that, yeah, a lot of people are going.

well, it must be right because AI wrote it. So it must be fine. It must have no mistakes. There must be nothing wrong with it. We're not holding it to the same standards we would a new team member. And I think it's important to do that.

Simon Dell (32:55)
Yeah.

Thank you very much for your

Fiona Campbell (32:59)
My pleasure.

Simon Dell (32:59)
insights and thoughts and ideas. And as I said, there was a show there was a lot more that we could talk about, but I think this is one of those things that people need to digest, you know, in small, small increments and start learning slowly and, you know, get better and better at. So

Fiona Campbell (33:17)
Definitely.

Simon Dell (33:18)
final thing, if everyone wants to reach out to you, what's the easiest way of getting hold of you?

Fiona Campbell (33:23)
If I'm your LinkedIn, Fiona Campbell, virtual assistant lead network. But if you need a VA, then valeadnetwork.com.au and we do have, they're all based in Australia and we do have members who can actually help you set up Claude, et cetera, as well.

Simon Dell (33:41)
And

I can testify because our VA, who has been with us for a long, time, Jess Woods, came through your network. So we'll be

Fiona Campbell (33:52)
She's wonderful, I love Jess. Hi Jess!

Simon Dell (33:55)
forever grateful for that. So have a good rest of your day, Fiona. Thank you. Bye.

Fiona Campbell (33:57)
Beautiful. All right. Thanks so much, Simon, having me. You too. Bye.