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Last week it was announced that Double Verify is going to be bought by Nielsen in a $2.15 billion deal.

Um, to we wanna get into it and see what that means for the ad tech ecosystem, what that's just about an MA, and if, you know, what it means for truly independent measurement.

Um, to get his thoughts on this, I'm joined by Kieran O'Kane, ExchangeWise founder and part of FBC.

Kieran, welcome back to the podcast.

Thanks, John.

It's been a long time.

Kept off.

Yeah, it's been a while.

Hey well, always good to have you back.

And you know, this is this is your, you know, the your your area of expertise really.

So delighted to get your thoughts on what is it's a massive deal for the industry.

Um T V purchased by Nielsen.

Um first off, like how did you feel about the deal?

What do you make of the news?

Does it make Nielsen a kind of end to end media intelligence platform now?

What does it mean for T V?

Give me your thoughts.

So I've been trying to digest this since it happened last week and trying to figure out the rationale behind it.

And I think like uh there's a there's a sort of prevailing narrative that this is sort of two two sort of like low-growth companies being sort of mashed together and it's sort of

straight out of the P playbook.

I I think it's way more new nuanced now.

Mark Zwarski and and uh and the team uh over a DV are smart operators.

And I think that they recognize that that Nielsen is a an amazing signal-based business, right?

Like measurement business.

So, you know, effectively it's it's uh a predominantly T V measurement company, but like what it's been doing of late is it's been kind of building that signal into into its uh

its own stack.

And what I think it i I I think goes back to what we did last year, John, around the super signal aggregator, the TLA.

The three-letter a acronym that launched a thousand startup uh and P roll-up decks across across the industry.

I think this is the ultimate uh super signal aggregator now.

I I think you you know, TV have the full weaponry, if you will.

They have, you know, the verification signal, they have the attention signal into their relationship with Lumen.

And now they have a reach signal, like so T V reach, if you will.

Um

And they have all the sort of activations with cybids and they have the measuring piece of rocket box.

So they they have this full stack, his full SA stack, and now what they've they've probably put one of the most uh potent uh signals into that sort of framework.

So what I think's happened here is weirdly, it doesn't talk about TV meets a fair.

I think that's all bullshit, right?

I think I think the super sac signal aggregator narrative is is alive here, it's come back with avengeness.

I like it's funny because we were covering last year twelve months and this deal just happened.

I think audience and and the uh experience deal was with happened last summer as well, I believe.

So it's just it just brings it back into the into the into the consciousness, if you will.

Um and I I I I think it's a really it's a really, really fascinating deal.

I think like this the the the reductive conversation I've seen around it, like Wall Street's going

Well, Wall Street doesn't know fuck all about ad tech.

Like the what they know about ad tech can be written on a the back of a post-it stamp.

So it's a it's an embarrassing sort of take from them.

But from an ad tech point of view, I think it's really interesting.

Yeah, it I mean, it's a huge deal.

And on the back of IAS going being sold last year and going private, it's you know, that's two two of the big measurement companies now have gone under new management and changed

hands.

What does this say about like I mean independent verification for a start?

The where does the industry go from here with this?

Uh

So I I think the neutrality stuff is is is is is nonsense.

if you think about what how Nielsen would be used from a global perspective, not just a US perspective, I think it's just a signal that ingests into the the D V framework.

Um I both IAS and D V were unloved stocks on the public markets.

And I think that has severely hampered their ability to buy companies because that's

the public markets look down on sort of small acquisitions or even acquisitions in general.

And I think it frees them up to be much, much more progressive.

Um I remember that Mark, and Doug, they have previous with with with Nielsen like they've they've worked with Nielsen before.

So I think this is sort of a a a good um sort of union of of of of capabilities.

I I see the neutrality thing, but it's like

Who the hell is neutral in ad tech anyway?

Like it doesn't mean like uh I I'm not entirely sure how that even that phrase becomes uh important.

But what it does give it gives DV real power with brands, right?

Having this collection of of of of of capabilities of of signals and that that framework they've built, that that sort of like signal uh activation measurement uh stack they're

building.

Uh and look, John.

The super single aggregator is back.

It took a little bit of high it is, but is back with a vengeance.

It is.

And this is like you said, this is something that we started talking about last year and that the industry really took and ran with.

That was and after a quite a few months, it this is actually you know, absolutely putting that back on the table as a really, really interesting model.

what does it mean for the health of MA in the industry?

Are you you know, is this like this?

I I think this is great.

I think it means it it probably um it forces the the IS to do something now.

They could buy, you know, something like, you know, iSpot or VidMob, but maybe that the the both of those duo both of those those companies would make up the duopoly around

verification and brand safety now start to think very more much more progressively.

I still think there's signal out there that

We'll be and we're doing it at ATS London where we're talking to uh proprietary signal vendors.

So someone like um the good net, for instance, who who are big on sustainability.

And given the summers we will be having in in Europe five consecutive heat waves where we're all just sweltering to death in in in unbelievably unbearable heat.

That is clearly man made.

I think sustainability cause back with a with a vengeance as well this year.

Um and there's other signals like quality uh scoring, which is

where picnic is and I I believe doing some of that as well.

And of course we've got attention, which is still a very, very strong signal, Lumen being a good a b a strong player in that area.

So so I think like from from an MA perspective there, I think there's going to be more more purchases.

There's going to be more acquisitions.

I think overall that the the MA market is interesting because there's going to be a bunch of panic by we had LiveRamp being acquired by um publicists.

And I think there's going to be some

movement in the next six to twelve months right now.

I think there'll be uh companies looking for particularly ID graph companies looking for onboarding cap capabilities or looking for or or or sort of companies looking for a bit

more than that, like to to kind of emulate the the live ramp stack because they don't want to be sort of like they don't want the futures to be dictated by a large holoco.

So there's going to be more more

more strategic buys happening in in the next six twelve.

So I think the MA market is pretty buoyed and will be buying for long.

I mean obviously we had, you know, the likes of vibe and y Yeah.

Right.

So I think SSA is a one, right?

Like super single aggregators and proprietor single vendors.

Like I think that becomes like a zeitgeist.

I think the live ramp, the ID um ID graph

data onboarding that becomes a zeitgeist and you you have this you had the ctv long tail smb market which it which tv scientific and vibe are part of and both now have been

acquired one by in Pinterest and the other by Walmart that was a sort of a a zeich so you're seeing these buckets of sort of like categories where there's a lot of activity

which it which which is which means it leads to a healthy enough uh MA market.

Excellent.

No, it yeah, yeah.

Like you say, these these trends get picked up on and all of a sudden there's a bit of a feeding frenzy around a certain area.

and do you think the Holcos still have moves to make as they become one stop shops?

I think I think the Hokos uh have aspirations, particularly somewhere like Publices WPV to become like sort of almost ad techie in a in a way, um, buying more assets.

I don't think publicists have stopped.

I think they're looking for more more capability, to kind of like ring fence their own sort of place within the ecosystem.

So I think there's gonna be more acquisitions there as well.

And obviously more partnerships as well.

I think

i some company some Hokos are preferring to do partnerships.

look, there's no doubt that someone like Omnicom will try to get off LiveRamp because it's pumped this, right?

Like there's no way that's going to survive.

And and like well, likewise, sort of big mid size ACs who are using Life or like LiveRamp of you know, they're they're they're gonna find it difficult to hold on to customers.

And that's that's that's what me being derogatory towards LiveRamp is just a it's just the nature of a

of our industry like so you know and if your biggest competitor owns a particular ad tech company that you're less likely to use that that company.

That's just a stand that's a standard process.

So yeah.

So I think there will be more acquisitions from Hulk's

Excellent.

Well, it's an exciting deal.

It's a big one for the industry.

So I'm glad to to uh to get your take on it and and the help of the industry.

Here up, welcome back onto the show and thank you for your time.

You are welcome back uh any time.

We'll we'll get you back on next year.

Well hopefully there's few more deals coming down the line you can have me on eye, you know?

I hope so.

Um, but I and I mean I'm sure there will be.

But yeah, we'll we'll keep on banging the drum for the super signal aggregators.

You can catch more about that ATS London where you'll see Kieron uh and loads, loads more.

but for now, thank you very much for listening and thanks for your time, Kieron.

Thanks for tuning in to this Mad Tech podcast special.

We'll be back to discuss another hot industry topic soon.