Matias Sarvela [00:00:00]:
college sports did is very structured, and you kind of have an idea of how this— how the yearly schedule and how the athletic schedule works for the whole annual plan. And then going into a situation where, you know, you were dealing with professional athletes that need to be kind of managed, the workload around heavy travel and heavy training camps and things like that. So I think that was the first and foremost part, is kind of culture shock.

Firstbeat [00:00:21]:
Welcome to the First Beat Sports Podcast, where we talk with coaches and sports scientists to explore the latest in physiology and internal load monitoring and how it is making a difference in pro team sports globally. We're going to connect you with practical advice from the best in the business to help you take your athletes to the next level.

Joel Wenning [00:00:40]:
Welcome to the Firstbeat Sports Podcast. My name is Joel Venning, exercise physiologyologist and customer success manager here at Firstbeat. Today we are joined by Mattias Sarvela, strength and conditioning coach at the Finnish ice hockey team. HIFK, and Mattias has a very unique background. I would say he's almost a unicorn across strength and conditioning coaches. He has worked in China, Russia, Europe, and North America, and his professional ice hockey path has taken him from Kunnolan Red Stars in the KHL to Salavat Ylave in KHL, HBK in Finland, and then to the New Jersey Devils and Utica Comets organization in North America. And now back to Finland, to HIFK. Today we will talk about what those different environments, his career path taught him, and what kind of learnings you have, and what are the— maybe as a strength and conditioning coach as well— what are the different things if you want to move from an environment to another in a professional manner? Mattias, When you hear that career path summarized— China KHL, Russia KHL, Liga, AHL, and now again back in Finland— how would you describe your own journey?

Matias Sarvela [00:02:04]:
Well, I think it's a good question, Joel. Like you said, I think fairly rich. I think there's, there's been, again, unbelievable opportunities to work with different kind of athletes in different countries, different cultures. But I think it's, you know, it's just been part of kind of a constant learning process. So I'll just say learning, developing, and growing as a, as a coach and, and also as a human being.

Joel Venning [00:02:23]:
Excellent points. And your journey started in Finland in American football, right?

Firstbeat [00:02:29]:
Correct.

Matias Sarvela [00:02:30]:
Yeah, this was, this was a long time ago, but this, this was the original sport that, uh, kind of took me over to the, to the United States in the, in the beginning.

Joel Venning [00:02:37]:
And I guess that wasn't that usual at that time to, to move as an American football player from Finland to the US.

Matias Sarvela [00:02:44]:
I think, I mean, there were again some, some, some really good athletes that, that went Went to the US before I did. But at that point, I think it was more of a unique path for athletes than compared to today.

Joel Venning [00:02:58]:
And probably the strength and conditioning in Finland at that time in American football wasn't that structured, and you probably got your first exposure to real strength and conditioning coaching then in the US.

Matias Sarvela [00:03:13]:
Yeah, I think the structure— obviously, there was some lack of structure at that point, but There were, again, really good coaches even in Finland that would help athletes to kind of get to a starting point. So we had some good help, but for sure, moving over to the United States and training in a college setting, that was just a different step into a more structured holistic approach to training.

Joel Venning [00:03:35]:
And how does that leap from Finland as a, I would say, relative young guy to the US felt like?

Matias Sarvela [00:03:44]:
I mean, it felt like the right thing to do. Of course, kind of jumping into an unknown, even though that's, you know, that was a goal at that point, something that you wanted to do from a young age to play college sports. Again, it was just somewhat of a culture shock in the sense of kind of going into more of a competitive environment. And like I said, structure, but also kind of accountability to really start developing your physical qualities to become a better player.

Joel Venning [00:04:11]:
And I guess that experience is maybe something that you have been able also to use in the Utica Comets organization, that there are probably quite many foreign players that are coming to the US, and then you can reflect on your own experience, that what it felt like when you moved from Finland to the US.

Matias Sarvela [00:04:31]:
Yeah, no, I think that's a fair point. Again, you know, you're going from, especially in my case, was the first time, you know, leaving Leaving home and leaving your country. But then you can definitely relate to some of the players, the young guys coming in, signing their first entry-level contract or moving to the United States for the first time. So there's definitely some points where you can relate where things are not as familiar and possibly share those experiences and help those guys not just cope, but again, thrive in a new environment.

Joel Venning [00:05:03]:
For sure. And you did something else in the US also, not just playing sports and playing American football. So you did education there, educate yourself. And yeah, please, could you elaborate on that a bit more?

Matias Sarvela [00:05:18]:
Absolutely. I think the whole education part was just almost as important or just as important as the athletic side. And from starting to play kind of the The goal at that point became, hey, I want to learn more about strength and conditioning, and this is something that I'm very passionate about. So earning your bachelor's at Louisiana College and then getting another opportunity to study and work at the University of Southern Miss was a really good blend of incorporating things that you wanted to do as a professional coach of adding education, adding more skills, adding more experience, but at the same time getting another step towards a formal education and combining those 2 to become a better coach.

Joel Venning [00:05:59]:
Your background is from American football. You have now ended up with ice hockey, but at the University of Mississippi, you got to work with quite many sports, right?

Matias Sarvela [00:06:09]:
Yeah, at the University of Southern Miss, again, there's, there's a lot of good opportunities to work with athletes. They had numerous sports, including football, basketball, volleyball, softball, to name a few, baseball. So those different sports and your ability to assist with those sports or even at some point leading some of those sports kind of gave you a very, I'd say, a well-rounded and a larger perspective on preparation and how the preparation differs between the different sports and what things you need to take into account for. Of course, kind of the rhythm of play and how the season is structured, they kind of work around around each other, you know, football being a fall sport and baseball, softball being more of a spring sport. So you kind of learn how those things structure within a college setting and, and learn what it means to be more of in a developmental stage. Yes, those teams as well, they're trying to win and teach players how to grow and become those star players that they want them to be, but it's also— there's a huge emphasis on developing athletes and developing their qualities. So it was a really good experience of kind of combining both formal and, and and coaching experience.

Joel Venning [00:07:15]:
Yeah, I think that's definitely one of the strengths that you have. Many strength and conditioning coaches in ice hockey come from ice hockey, and they haven't had contact to a different sport, to different periodization models, to different training models. Maybe they are doing the same thing that they used to do as an athlete, and you have had great exposure to different sports in your own sports career and then later at the university. You said you worked with a lot of sports, and I assume you worked with a lot of coaches there as well. So are there some mentors from that time that, that you said that these had a big impact on how I think about strength and conditioning?

Matias Sarvela [00:07:57]:
Yes, I think especially my time at Southern Miss, our director at that time, Zach Woodfin, currently coaching for the Tennessee Titans. I think he had a very, very big influence on me as far as when it comes to structure of the strength and conditioning program, kind of the preparation, kind of creating Creating an environment that hopefully leads to success and is tied to the philosophy of the head coach or the sport. So kind of creating a model that collaborates both the philosophy of the head coach and then also creates their own kind of weight room culture, training culture. I think that he was a huge influence. I think another coach that I can mention from that time, Coach Mike Chapman, he was the director of basketball performance. Kind of the influence that he had on me was, you know, looking, looking at training structure from a, I would say, a larger perspective of like what is the type of adaptation that you're looking for, uh, not just looking at, okay, these are the exercises you need to have or these are the methods that you need to be using, but as far as looking at just what type of adaptation are you trying to get and then working backwards from that. So those, those 2 coaches for sure, uh, were very influential from that time.

Joel Venning [00:09:04]:
Yeah, those are highly valuable things that you get persons that from which you can learn and take more into your own career path. Then there's another huge leap from the US to the KHL. Could you tell our listeners that how did you end up there?

Matias Sarvela [00:09:21]:
Yeah, I think it was part of kind of combining networking and getting to know some of the other coaches. I think that was part of the plan and something that I always wanted to work with, work in hockey and especially You know, being able to work on this side, this side of the, this side of the world. I think hockey is a really good sport and really thrives really well in Northern Europe and Russia and other other countries in Europe. So that was definitely a plan at some point when I was when I was studying. So when that opportunity came, this was in summer of 2017. When that opportunity came where Kunlun Red Star from China for the playing in the KHL, they had an opening for strength conditioning job. I was very very happy to. embrace that opportunity and go. So that was pretty much just networking and getting to know people. And then when that opportunity came by, just being prepared enough to be able to jump right in and hopefully make a positive impact.

Joel Venning [00:10:14]:
I assume it was another culture shock, maybe even bigger than moving from Finland to the US when you moved from US to China. What were your experiences on that?

Matias Sarvela [00:10:25]:
I think the culture shock was definitely more towards the professional side first. Just, you know, going from a— and again, when I mentioned college sports, it is very structured and you kind of have an idea of how the yearly schedule and how the athletic schedule works for the whole annual plan. And then going into a situation where, you know, you were dealing with professional athletes that need to be, yes, trained to get better as hockey players, but definitely being able to— of manage the workload around heavy travel and heavy training camps and things like that. So I think that was the first and foremost part is kind of culture shock in the sense of, okay, this is a whole nother beast of understanding the intricacies of training. And it's not just about, you know, I'm trying to develop a hockey player, but also you're looking to utilize data or utilize understanding of strength and conditioning to help them stay ready for the games. I think that was the first definitely a culture shock and a bigger change in a professional setting.

Joel Venning [00:11:28]:
You mentioned travel. You were on the east side of KHL in China, and I guess that you were one of the teams that had most travel during the KHL season. How many places did you play in the season, and how was your normal weekly— how does a normal week look like?

Matias Sarvela [00:11:48]:
I think playing in China, your home rink being in Shanghai, I think The whole weekly schedule, it was very twofold. Either we were on the road for approximately a week to 2 weeks, usually on average if we were on the road, it was at least 7 to 8 days, which is a fairly long period of time being away from your home rink. So from that standpoint, it was very fairly straightforward. You play a game, you have a day in between, most likely you will travel right after the game, and then you fly to the next destination. train and play again. So that was fairly straightforward. I think the biggest challenges were coming back from those road trips and coming back to your home rink, coming back to China where we would spend an equal amount of time. And it was mainly due to jet lag, longer distances. I think the closest travel we had from Shanghai was to Vladivostok, which was also on the eastern side of Russia, which was a 4-hour flight. So that was the shortest flight we would have. All year, and then the longest we would have was a 13-hour flight with a short stop to refuel. So again, there was a very lot of variance between between the travel. But again, it was very challenging, especially when we came back because there we had enough time on the western western side of Russia to have our internal clocks again change a little bit. So we would accumulate a little bit of jet lag coming back, and most of the teams we we would travel back. Most of the teams would be traveling back. to play us at home. So we were sometimes, I would say, at a little bit of a disadvantage from a jet lag standpoint of not being able to stay within a Western time zone. We would have to start adapting to our own time zone again once we would travel back. So I think that those were the things that were very unique kind of when it came to the travel in that team for those 2 seasons.

Joel Venning [00:13:32]:
Yeah, I guess that's extremely hard to manage the circadian rhythm. How do you want to adapt to the different time zones and with that much travel and that much games? must have been incredibly hard. But you weren't not only by yourself in China, in Shanghai, in KHL. You were traveling also with your family in those different countries. How did your family take on that?

Matias Sarvela [00:13:55]:
I would say my family has been very adaptable. My wife especially. I think they've been able to kind of jump right in and adapt as I've adapted to the different environments in different cities, different cultures. And I would say they've taken it well. And like I said, my wife has been a superstar in most, most of these, uh, most of these places that we've been to. So, um, so I would say yes, very well. Um, but I have not done it alone.

Joel Venning [00:14:21]:
Yeah, that's, that's extremely important that you have that support from home, man. And very nice to hear that. When you moved from US to the KHL to Russia to China, was there something different in the training culture, uh, in a way They played maybe in the way they managed free time or then general culture at the hockey rink?

Matias Sarvela [00:14:44]:
I think there's a twofold answer to that. With the first team I worked for in China, we had very much a North American staff, North American players. We also had a Finnish staff my second season, but there was very much a training culture very similar that I experienced in North America my first First year going into KHL, but I think then transitioning over to another organization, Salavat Eliyev. First, for the first time, I got to experience more of a volume-based, very, very high demand, high density training culture, very high volume culture. I think that was a very, very unique situation where you're coming in from a bit of a different training style, a different training culture into a historically I would say, well-led, well-run, and also successful training culture. And I'm kind of speaking broadly in Russian hockey terms and then kind of experiencing that where players and coaches have traditionally trained multiple times a day, getting used to just getting players a lot of exposure, whether it's on the ice or off the ice.

Joel Venning [00:15:48]:
And you said that, that a lot of training, and I guess that's like as a Western country, We think that Russia is quite strict, quite hard on their athletes. We know the Red Machine or the time in the Soviet Union where they were training a lot. Is culture still that way or at your time, that high volume, hard trainings, and taking everything from the athletes?

Matias Sarvela [00:16:15]:
I think there's variation between each club in the KHL, which the variation comes from, you know, obviously the head coach that kind of sets the tone and sets the philosophy. But I do see there's still traditionally players and even coaches, they very much, I would say, not used to, but do value the fact that you're able to train for a long period of time and do value the fact that you're able to increase your endurance and your capabilities for training long, for longer periods of time. So I think there's a historical context and a historical connection from, as you mentioned, some of the older Soviet Union days where there was a lot of A lot of high-intensity and a lot of high-volume training. I think that has also transitioned, even though there's been a lot of improvements and a lot of changes throughout the years, and teams do run training camps very well. I think there's some of that training history still evident.

Joel Venning [00:17:10]:
If you compare how the team trained before you came in, how the team trained when you were there, what were the biggest differences that that you made in the team's training, if you know that what what the guy before you did.

Matias Sarvela [00:17:25]:
Yeah, I think I came into a very very good situation in in Salavat Yulayev. Prior strength coach Jarmo Fira Koivisto, he he did a great job working for the club before I got there. So he definitely had a very modern approach to training. So the players had had some exposure to some of the things that that I was also going to bring. And of course, all coaches, we're all different. We have some different methods, different training styles. But at least they had some exposure to tracking, communication between the strength coach, between the coaching staff. So I came into a very, very good situation where players already had some exposure to that. I think what I tried to bring to the team from the beginning was just being able to create an environment where we're, you know, whether we're tracking or whether we're testing, we're doing it because we're trying to create an individualized plan to help players perform at their best.

Joel Venning [00:18:21]:
Mm-hmm.

Matias Sarvela [00:18:21]:
And I think that was for one of some of the first things that when we did start doing more formal testing, whether it was power, strength, endurance, and things like that, the players saw that it wasn't just, you know, let's have the hardest possible test and make, you know, a player's life miserable, that you're actually trying to get some actionable actionable ideas and concepts from those results.

Joel Venning [00:18:44]:
One part of coaching is that you have a very strong expertise, and the another part is communication. And I guess when you moved to the KHL, you had zero skills in Chinese or in Russian. So how did you manage that?

Matias Sarvela [00:18:59]:
Well, fortunately, my Chinese and Mandarin did not get much better during those 2 years. Fortunately, the language that we use in Kunlun Red Star was English. That was our That was our main language, and most of the players were, like I said, from either North America, Europe, or Russia. So English was very easy to use at that point. But then transitioning over to Solovet Ulyab, even though yes, there were players that played in the NHL or played in North America, that they had a good base of English and we were able to communicate, I found it very important to be able to learn Russian so I could reach the players that either A, don't speak, don't speak English, and B, I think it was a, it was another thought of kind of getting, getting a better understanding of the training culture and the culture in general when you do learn the language. And, and I think that also increased buy-in, buy-in from the guys when you're able to communicate in their own language, and especially in the training environment, because again, there's a lot of questions. And sometimes, you know, if you're not familiar with English or I'm not familiar with another language, sometimes it's really hard to kind of get in into in-depth conversations related to performance, related to training. And then obviously, as a strength coach, you want to be able to ask those questions that either will help lead to better understanding of where the player is at, player's readiness at that point, or training fatigue or anything like that, as far as more of the intricate questions versus just being able to ask, are you doing okay? And then you just get a thumbs up. So, It's very important to kind of be able to create an understanding and then share a common language.

Joel Venning [00:20:39]:
Yeah, perfect that you were able to learn Russian on that level. And have you been able to keep speaking Russian or have you forgot something?

Matias Sarvela [00:20:49]:
Of course, you know, it's not a language that I use on a daily basis. I think I was very fortunate, especially in North America, we had a couple of players that spoke Russian and It was, I think, very good for me at least to be able to maintain my language skills and also help them out in the beginning to kind of get accustomed to training and acclimated. So help out with some of the translational things when it came to training. So I think that was a win-win at that point. And then of course, you know, if there's any friends that you try to kind of maintain the language skills and have conversations every now and then.

Joel Venning [00:21:25]:
Yeah. We were having lunch and you told me that the players had some interesting recovery or warm-up strategies. Could you elaborate a little bit more on that?

Matias Sarvela [00:21:39]:
Yes, I think there's a, I think, an interesting situation. This was during my time with Kunlun Red Star, and I had the opportunity to work for the Chinese men's national team for hockey. And this was during the preparation for for the World Championships at that point. I think it was a 2B Championships in the spring of 2018, and we had a longer training camp in Harbin, China, in northern parts of China. And this was part of our first days of large groups, and we're running through evaluation periods. So we would do all 5 sessions outdoors where we just run through general warm-ups and general dynamic stretches and just preparing players to be able to Up on the ice and start training, and I do remember after a not very intense but just a general general warm-up, I saw one player kind of move off to the side where we had a water break, and I see him reaching over to a pack of cigarettes and light up a cigarette during the during the water break, which you know made me you know ask one of our massage therapists who was able to translate translate for me. You know, I was asking what the player would know what is what's going on? Why is he Why is he, why is he smoking a dart? And, and he just said that this will help me, um, kind of expand my lungs and, and get a, get a better, better breathing capacity. Uh, at that point, I thought it was, he was, he was making a joke. And he said, no, I'm very serious. I think this will help me breathe better. So that was a very, very unique situation and, and, and, and something that you just have to laugh, laugh about afterwards.

Joel Venning [00:23:09]:
Yeah, that's, that's like, I guess you have all heard also those stories that way you use alcohol to improve your recovery to to feel relaxed, and I think that goes in the same bucket.

Matias Sarvela [00:23:20]:
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And again, just some of those things that, you know, when you tell friends back home like, hey, this happened in training, or you told some of your colleagues, they're like, no, I don't believe you, that's impossible.

Joel Venning [00:23:31]:
Okay, perfect. Let's end the KHL era with that fun story and move then back to Finland. So you had a short break between your international duties in Finland and then moved to Jyväskylä Comets organization, New Jersey Devils. And what were the differences on a broad manner when you moved from KHL Finland and then to the US back?

Matias Sarvela [00:23:58]:
I think one big difference was the level of preparation and the time that you had to prepare. I think compared to the KHL, where you have the players at that point, again, the training camps were fairly long. In the KHL, you would start mid-July and the end of August, so like a 6 to 7 week training camp versus then coming to Finland where you do have the players for most of the year, whether it's in season and in the summer for the offseason. I think that was a very unique thing that I came into, which I thought was great. I think you get so much more time with players and you're really able to kind of attack the training sessions with, you know, with a clear goal in mind of being able to help the players with their capabilities and kind of focus on some of the deficiencies that they may have and then kind of create a really well-structured training process for the whole summer. So you kind of have most of the strings in your hand. I think that was a very unique situation that I hadn't experienced before coming back to Finland. And this was very similar to kind of having players for the whole year at the college level. Again, a different context and not comparing amateur college athletes to professional athletes, but just more of exposure and hands-on exposure with your players. So I think that was very unique. And I thought also the testing that most of the teams use in Finland, I think it's very good and kind of gives you a lot of information about the key KPIs, whether it's their aerobic capacities, Anaerobic power, speed, strength, whatever you look at the test, it kind of gives you a really good snapshot of, of each athlete's capabilities and how it relates to the game.

Joel Venning [00:25:39]:
Yeah. And I guess also travel was a big differentiator between KHL and then the Finnish league.

Firstbeat [00:25:45]:
Yeah.

Matias Sarvela [00:25:45]:
I think the travel, like you said, it was a very big difference, but I think it was really good that you don't spend so much time either in an airplane or, or, or long distances on the bus. which then again gave players a lot more time to recover. And from that standpoint, I think you have even better opportunities to train, especially in season.

Joel Venning [00:26:06]:
Okay, let's keep the Finnish part short and move back to the US. So you moved to the professional organization of New Jersey Devils and Utica Comets, as I said. What were maybe the surprising things or things that you Weren't aware of when you first came to the organization?

Matias Sarvela [00:26:27]:
I think that's a great question. I think the surprising things, even though I, I had a— have a decent feel for it, and, and of course these were, these were evident when we had conversations with, with the staff, but I think just the level of professionalism is— professionalism between not just the players but coaching staff and other staff members, and especially like the performance staff, physical therapists and athletic trainers. I think they're their level of understanding of the big picture was really good. And I think we had really good leadership in the organization as far as performance side and medical side. So I think that was a— I wouldn't say a surprise, but it was a very positive thing to see and very fun to jump into.

Joel Venning [00:27:09]:
You mentioned performance staff, and how would you rank those different clubs where you have been in terms of performance staff? Of course, things have changed during the years, but just to give you Overview of that?

Matias Sarvela [00:27:22]:
I think I would, I would rank the Devils and, and most NHL clubs, I would rank them very, very high, not just because they have a lot of staff, a lot of resources, um, but I think most of those people, they, they, they, they share kind of a bigger sense of curiosity and, and kind of a sense of, hey, let's get better. And, and not just, not just as a group, but I think the individual kind of sense of, you know, continuing your education and, and becoming better, whether it's during the offseason and kind of learning and going and then sharing that information. I think that kind of cultivates, cultivates a good level of excellence.

Joel Venning [00:27:57]:
AHL is a development league, and I guess that also affected on how you work with your athletes than, for example, in the KHL where you need to perform on every game.

Matias Sarvela [00:28:09]:
Yeah, I think that's for sure kind of the unique capabilities of playing In the American Hockey League, yes, there's a lot of games. It's over 70 games a year, and you tend to play 3 games, 3 games a week. But there are always some pockets of training, training sessions that you're able to push these guys, and especially when you have a sense of what these players need to get better at from a physiological standpoint, and you can kind of use those days to kind of hammer at those qualities. So that made it unique, but it's You still wanted to make sure that you're doing a good service to the players. Obviously, you still have to take into account load management and fatigue and readiness because you still want players to be able to perform at their best. I think that's part of the development is being able to play the game and hopefully being able to play the game at your physiological best or at least close to it night in, night out. That kind of ties into the availability of each player. That, yes, you're still trying to push them and you want to help them to get better. And it does give you a unique opportunity to kind of find what this player needs to get better at that hopefully ties into the long-term development. But still, readiness and monitoring is a huge part because, again, there's always an opportunity for the player to either move up to the NHL or— You know, if someone else moves up, then their role changes within the team, and maybe their minutes go up as their role changes. So there's always kind of that aspect that you have to take into account for.

Joel Venning [00:29:40]:
One of the biggest differentiators between European, Russian, and North American hockey is the rink size. So how do you think that affects your work as a strength and conditioning coach?

Matias Sarvela [00:29:54]:
I think the kind of uniqueness of of kind of the rink sizes, whether it's North American and kind of the shorter— not the shorter ice, but just the smaller surface, kind of emphasis on speed, power, or versus, you know, teams playing on the Olympic-sized rink where it's, you know, a very, very large size where there's a lot more distance covered within games. I think that is a thing that you do want to take into account for. Not saying that you will train the player in a complete different way, whether they're playing on a smaller rink or a larger rink. But I think aerobic development is something that I'm kind of interested in, especially when a player does have to skate a lot and there's a lot of distance covered. But then I think there's still a good balance because the game is still the same, even though, yes, they're playing on a different, different ice surface. And you have to take into account kind of the athlete that you're training and that athlete's unique training profile and physical capabilities. So I would more start from that standpoint. What does the athlete need? And then how does it relate to the style of play of the head coach? How do we want to play? And then you kind of look at the broader aspect of, again, a good example, playing in Sweden, a very large ice surface, or then more of a physical game in the American Hockey League when there's a lot of hits, a lot of battles, a lot of short bursts, change of direction. So those are kind of the polar Not polar opposites, but, but there's a little bit of polarity between those, those rink sizes. But still, you have to take into account the athlete's own capabilities and what that athlete needs to get better at.

Joel Venning [00:31:26]:
When you were at Utica Comets, maybe, maybe you had a small sample size on that, but when you had players coming in from Sweden and then you had North American players, could you see that difference that the Swedish players, for example, had a higher aerobic capacity and then the North American players had Better power, better speed.

Matias Sarvela [00:31:45]:
I think I couldn't really put it into just one player coming from one country or another country. I think that it was, it was always a very unique kind of— as unique as the, as a player itself is. I think broader aspect, I did see a lot of the North American players, they had a lot of experience of training for power, training for speed, improving their RFD. I think those were some of the metrics that I was able to kind of see some of the differences. It was more related towards, okay, I can probably see that this player has spent a lot of time training in, you know, this type of way. And then maybe some of the European players that came, came into the club, came into the organization, maybe they had a different exposure, but it was very much an individual thing versus kind of being able to just say North Americans versus Europeans.

Joel Venning [00:32:30]:
Of course. Of course. Then let's move on from North America back to Finland. back to your home country? And what were the biggest things that you were taking from North America then back to Finland?

Matias Sarvela [00:32:44]:
I would say communication, kind of creating a bridge between coaching staff, medical, and the players, kind of creating, creating a level of understanding of what we're trying to accomplish. I think that was, that was one really important thing that I wanted to kind of bring with me. I thought that was done on a very good level in North America. And then, from the testing side of being able to kind of create a testing battery that would cover most of the aspects that you feel like relates to the game, and then being able to explain those performance indicators to each athlete. Okay, what does this mean? How does it relate to the game? How does it relate to their performance? And then, how do we Start developing those those qualities if there's if there's any deficiencies in each each KPI. So I think that was that was a huge thing that I kind of wanted to bring with me that I thought was very very important, and it was just kind of being able to create understanding and awareness to each individual of what they need to be doing and how they how they can kind of keep improving improving their performance to be better on the ice night in night out. So that was yeah like I said that was a Something that I really wanted to bring in.

Joel Venning [00:33:57]:
Interesting. And could you pinpoint one of those KPIs that you bring with you across the sea?

Matias Sarvela [00:34:04]:
I would say it wasn't something, anything very, very unique to this country. It was just more of finding ways to test each quality, whether it's aerobic capacity, whether it's anaerobic power, repeated sprint ability. Something that I really wanted to kinda emphasize for players is, is being able to not just develop and develop and get better at their base qualities, but then how those base qualities will then relate into some of the peak qualities that, um, that you can see on the ice. So getting strong enough— what is strong enough? Aerobic fitness— what is fit enough? What is realistic to be able to develop in a short period of time, and what is a long-term goal?

Joel Venning [00:34:41]:
Excellent answer. From a Finnish hockey perspective, what do strength and conditioning coaches do well in Finland?

Matias Sarvela [00:34:48]:
I think they do a very well, good job of kind of being, you know, jackknife type of approach of being able to be good at a lot of things, whether it's sports science, whether it's testing, whether it's utilizing tech to monitor. I think those are obviously, those are all, all 3 tied into sports science. And then having a good understanding of the broad, broad principles of athletic development. And I think that's, that's a good way to kind of create a bridge towards How do players train on the ice? I think the kind of coaches, they have a lot more influence with the sport coaches, kind of what things that need to happen on the ice. I think there's a lot more hands-on work with strength coaches kind of going on the ice with the players. So I think that Finnish strength coaches do a really good job of implementing those tech things that they have, whether it's, you know, utilizing heart rate or internal monitoring, external monitoring, and then utilizing it. on the ice to be able to help players.

Joel Venning [00:35:42]:
You mentioned physiological data and internal load monitoring. We have a very strong culture here in Finland in those aspects. We have Polar, we have Oura, we have Firstbeat, we have Suunto. That all have come from Finland. Is this— do you see there a difference that the Finnish players are used more to internal load monitoring than Russian players or North American players or data in general?

Matias Sarvela [00:36:10]:
Yeah, I think I've, I've been able to see a lot of the players that do use some type of monitoring that they're very much used to looking at heart rate data and internal load metrics. There's a lot of the players have mentioned that they've used some type of heart rate monitoring device since they were playing in the juniors. So then that really kind of makes it easier for when the players do come up to the professional ranks of kind of being able to explain the data And then you don't have to start from, you know, why do you want— why do you need to wear this? And, and, and, and what do you— what do we use it for? And then they have a little bit of an understanding of their own personal, personal capabilities, whether it's the thresholds and what is in a broad, broad, you know, kind of broad view of what is their zone 1 to zone 5, or where do they need to be. So they have a really good understanding. It kind of ties in also with some of the testing that the teams do, that the players understand. their physiological capabilities and their aerobic capacities. And they like to utilize the internal metrics when they're kind of looking at their, you know, whatever the training response was for that day and whether the plan that they had in mind was successful.

Joel Venning [00:37:16]:
Good. Excellent. We have now covered your American football career. Then when you moved to KHL, Salavat Yuläve and Kunnolla Red Stars, HBK in Finland, New Jersey Devils and Utica Comets, and back to HIFK. And let's wrap those up all and, and do a short comparison between of those, between all of those. So where do you think there's the most, uh, biggest emphasis on volume?

Matias Sarvela [00:37:46]:
For sure in Russia.

Joel Venning [00:37:48]:
Okay, for sure, 100%. How big is the difference if you would take average volume in Finland or North America? Is it 1.2? Is it 1.5? What's your take on that?

Matias Sarvela [00:38:01]:
I would say some cases you could probably see double, but I think 1.2 would be a good kind of halfway point. No exact numbers, but in some cases you can see double, some cases you can see a slight increase.

Joel Venning [00:38:14]:
Okay, okay. And the biggest emphasis on power and speed?

Matias Sarvela [00:38:19]:
North America. Those metrics and players have an understanding of power metrics and speed metrics. I think that's something that they do a very good job with.

Joel Venning [00:38:30]:
And the biggest emphasis on recovery and monitoring?

Matias Sarvela [00:38:34]:
I would say Finland for sure would be from the monitoring standpoint. And kind of like we discussed before, I think the players' understanding of what the devices are used for and what the data can be used for.

Joel Venning [00:38:48]:
And biggest emphasis on individual player service, meaning individual player development?

Matias Sarvela [00:38:55]:
I think that's a twofold question, and not, not, not, not a twofold question, but I have a twofold answer for it. I think in Finland and Europe in general, I think there's teams that do a really good job of kind of creating a long-term athletic development plan. But in North America, for sure, some, some of the teams do try to find a way to kind of get that short-term individualization into place as quickly as possible. So, so I think I would say Europe and North America, but just from a different standpoint.

Joel Venning [00:39:25]:
Okay. How would you describe an average Finnish player, North American player, and a Russian player?

Matias Sarvela [00:39:32]:
With a short answer, Finnish player, I would say blue-collar, hardworking. North American player, I'd say curious, kind of willing to develop and, and, and, and kind of find new ways to get better. I think Russian player, I would say grit, hard work, just toughness overall.

Joel Venning [00:39:48]:
And then the same for coaches— average Finnish coach, average North American coach, and the average Russian coach.

Matias Sarvela [00:39:55]:
I would say those, those same answers would definitely apply. I think North America, I think there's coaches that are really looking to innovate and find new ways and, and being curious. I think in Finland, coaches do a really good job of just being able to kind of utilize that hard work mindset of, and kind of a blue-collar approach. And, and Russia, the same thing, of it just more of a toughness, toughness, and creating a strict training environment.

Joel Venning [00:40:22]:
Perfect. And if you could take one learning from each of those countries or regions, what would it be to kind of create the perfect mixture?

Matias Sarvela [00:40:35]:
I'd say stay curious. Again, North America, stay curious, be able to stay on a path of continued education. And then from Finland and Russia, just be able to also kind of look at training and coaching more from kind of blue-collar standpoint of, you know, just keep working hard and try to develop yourself as much as you can, but also make sure that you understand that you're serving the athletes.

Joel Venning [00:41:03]:
Perfect. You have an impressive international career as a strength and conditioning coach. What would you say to our listeners or to the young Matias Sarvela who dreams to be a top strength and conditioning coach, that how can he progress on his career path?

Matias Sarvela [00:41:22]:
That's a great question. I would say stay curious, find a why. Why do you want to do this? And then once you kind of discover that, then try to find, find ways to help you express, express that why, trying to find opportunities. And then take a lot, especially as a young coach, Try to get as broad a spectrum of experience that you can, whether it's coaching younger athletes, whether it's coaching older athletes, and/or even general population. Create as much exposure as you can. Learn, ask questions, don't hesitate to reach out to experienced coaches or other coaches that you are around. I think Finland is a really good environment. There's a lot of good strength and conditioning coaches in the country and And from a broader spectrum with social media and just readily available sets of information, I think don't hesitate to reach out to different coaches and try and find ways to increase your knowledge and then take that knowledge and keep developing it. So I think just try to get on a path of continued education and don't be afraid to ask questions, make mistakes, and learn from them.

Joel Venning [00:42:35]:
Yeah, excellent advices. Take notes, listeners. Perfect. Let's wrap up this historical section and move on to the present. So now you are working with HIFK, second season is starting. How would you describe a normal in-season day or an in-season week at HIFK with the team?

Matias Sarvela [00:43:01]:
Yeah, a normal, normal in-season week, say a 3-game week. Last season we would play Wednesday, Friday, Saturday most of the majority of the weeks. This upcoming season there's going to be some differences as we added some games to the season, so there's going to be a little bit of variety, um, between the game days. But if you take an average, average week from last year, Monday, Tuesday would be our, our practice days. Monday tended to be more of a high, high volume, more, more volume type of training day.

Joel Venning [00:43:26]:
On the the ice.

Matias Sarvela [00:43:27]:
And then we try to match some of the training qualities off the ice as well. And then Tuesday would be our match day or game day minus 1 preparation. So dropping the volume down as much as we can, hoping to still keep up the game intensity to help players prepare for the next day. Then Wednesday usually will be a game day. If at home, we would have morning skate. General, what hockey teams usually do, morning skate, lunch, nap, come and play. And then Thursday— would be our either our active recovery day or a lighter skate, and then we would come back in on Friday, start preparing again with morning skates, meetings, and things like that. So there's kind of a general high— 2 really high days, which would be Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday, and then more of a medium and a low volume day on a Tuesday, and a low volume, low intensity day on a Thursday. So I would say a fairly structured rhythm that didn't change much. in season as far as kind of the concepts that you were trying to get into, um, during the week. Unless we have some travel that would kind of flow into a Sunday, for example, coming back from Oulu, uh, then we kind of reconsider that Monday and maybe do something different on those days.

Joel Venning [00:44:32]:
You mentioned volume and intensity. How, how are you evaluating those, that when it's a high day and when it's a low day?

Matias Sarvela [00:44:39]:
So as far as how we would evaluate, we like— we've tended to use TRIMP and movement load for the metrics that we've decided to look at from a daily standpoint, but also from a weekly standpoint. And then intensity, we'll just either utilize trips or movement loads per minute or some of the more advanced metrics that First Speed does offer. As far as what we would decide would be also an individual-based projection of what this player most likely is going to accumulate throughout the week. So kind of having a full understanding of what is it, what is a game for player A versus player B, and maybe look at some of the volume metrics for each individual player, or sometimes trying to emphasize some of the players that get higher, higher volumes throughout the week, and then players that get lower volumes or lower intensities throughout the week, then try to add some supplemental training for them that doesn't seep into the players that, that carry heavier loads from the games.

Joel Venning [00:45:34]:
And do you typically compensate those low-minute players or low-load players on the ice or then on a bike, or what's your typical approach?

Matias Sarvela [00:45:43]:
Most of the time, we would like to train them on the ice, get as close as we can to competition exercises. So we would skate them either more on the ice, or for example, that Thursday when some of the players would have an active recovery day, possibly even off the ice for the whole day, then the players that either play lower minutes or were scratched healthy scratch and didn't play the previous game, then those players would get their quote-unquote top-up minutes or top-up load for that day.

Joel Venning [00:46:13]:
Yeah, and you mentioned those Firstbeat metrics, trimp per minute, as for internal load, and movement load and movement intensity for external load. Are those the metrics that you tend to look at, or are there some other metrics that you look from Firstbeat?

Matias Sarvela [00:46:29]:
Yeah, I think those metrics are kind of the main, main metrics for, for kind of the daily practices and, and how we plan, plan the week. Of course, the acute to chronic workload, um, and that's more of an individual-based acute to chronic load where you're looking at kind of the, uh, the, the session reports and, and kind of the week reports. I think that's, that's a metric that we look at. But then there's also the heart rate recovery, um, aspect. You know, you're looking at how that's trending throughout the year. How's that trending from practices to to other practices. Or so we're trying to do a— trying to tag each practice and tag each drill and then compare either drills from each week or then compare days to each other. So kind of see if there's any red flags or any outliers that would be between each individual player.

Joel Venning [00:47:15]:
Yes, perfect. Could you a little bit elaborate on that? So you mentioned that you are tagging drills. So what are you trying to accomplish by tagging those drills?

Matias Sarvela [00:47:25]:
The bigger thing is to kind of look at what each drill brings from an internal and external load standpoint. So what is the physiological load for each individual, and what do those drills do? So if we create a drill bag, and then we're trying to create a practice that would, for example, if we wanted a very high volume but lower intensity practice, then maybe look at some of the historical data. Okay, what were the drills that would Kind of go into this, into this compartment of very high volume, very low intensity, or vice versa, if we're trying to create a very high-intensity environment for practice. Okay, what are the drills that accomplish this from a historical standpoint, but also what it means on an individual level and position level? Okay, because again, there's sometimes examples of a drill being a very high-intensity drill, very heavy, very heavy taxing drill for a defense but it could also be a very, very easy drill for a forward. Or a goalie could have a very, very challenging drill, but it was very, very easy for the on-ice players. Yeah. So those are the kind of things that we're trying to look at and take into account when it comes to practice planning. And this is, again, just more information for the coaches. The coaches obviously make the plans and create the structure for the practices, but just want to give some context if the coaches are asking, what does this drill look like? So be able to give him some some context of what the external and internal load is.

Joel Venning [00:48:47]:
Excellent, excellent. Sounds like you have your procedures in place with your on-ice coaches on how you are planning the load and the intensity of each on-ice session. We talked about the general culture in Finland about internal load monitoring. How is the player buy-in in HIFK with Firstbeat?

Matias Sarvela [00:49:09]:
I think the player buy-in is very good. I think Firstbeat is a system that most players have used, whether they're They've been with IFK or been other clubs in Finland, so they have a fairly good understanding of what information they can get from it. I think the buy-in always increases when they see that coaches and performance staff utilize the data for and create actionable items from it and create some type of change or adapt to some of the information. I think that creates a lot of buy-in. the player has been able to see that, you know, we're utilizing data for something, not just to look at, you know, how high the heart rate was or something simple as that, and they feel like we utilize the data for changing some of the practice procedures that we would have for the week or change the load for the week, that we see something different, I think that creates even more buy-in.

Joel Venning [00:50:01]:
And I assume that the players are also interested in their data in that way that they receive after each training, the automatic reports. And of course, there will be some players that don't want to look at it, but also some players that will have a look.

Matias Sarvela [00:50:15]:
Yeah, I think a lot of the players are somewhat interested what the metrics were for that day, how many calories they burned, or how much time they spent in the red zone. I think those are some of the simpler metrics that they're really, really interested in and always want to show, hey, look, I spent You know, 10 or 15 minutes in the red zone today. So that is, those are things that they definitely always want to see.

Joel Venning [00:50:39]:
Physiological data is somewhat abstract. So, for example, on GPS side, you have kilometers, which is understandable for John on the street. How do you find it communicating with the staff? Have you found ways? Is it hard for you? What is your take on that?

Matias Sarvela [00:50:58]:
No, I think kind of what the metrics for first speed does is you kind of have a, of a kind of a broad understanding of what is hard, what is, what is medium hard, and things like that. And I think that those metrics are easy, easy to communicate. And then especially when it ties in very well with the general plan that the coaching staff has created, and then especially when we do measure things and coaching staff has a, has an idea of this is the type of practice This is the type of load we have. And a lot of times, First Speed has been good to kind of confirm that those loads and those metrics happened. And I think that has created a better environment for the conversations. And also from the other side as well, it's like, hey, we need to push the players a little bit harder. I think we can push a little bit more here. I think that also creates kind of an avenue of Okay, this drill was very, very good, but now we have a little bit more time to add a little bit of volume to this practice. So no, I would say it's been, it's been a very, very smooth process to kind of create understanding and awareness.

Joel Venning [00:52:00]:
Yeah, happy to hear that. Now you are heading with, with IFK to the offseason, 5-6 week break. How are you managing training load monitoring at that time?

Matias Sarvela [00:52:12]:
That's the time between now and obviously when preseason starts, it's the players kind of own personal preparation time that we want to assist the players as much as we can. And some players have chosen to take the load monitoring that they're self-responsible and personally responsible for the load metrics. So that's part of it. But it's always more just of a conversation of how things are going and just letting the players know that you're here to support. And if they have any questions— far as what the load needs to be and if they need more training or less training. I think it's always more of a conversation of, you know, how everything's going. I think the guys that have chosen to maintain load monitoring throughout this period, they do it on their own. And those players usually have a really good understanding of where they need to be at before training camp starts.

Joel Venning [00:53:03]:
Yeah, excellent, excellent. And I guess they will be doing that then via the First Beat Athlete app.

Matias Sarvela [00:53:09]:
Correct.

Joel Venning [00:53:10]:
Yes, perfect. You have worked in professional ice hockey. You are starting now your 10th season, and you have worked with First Speed for 8 seasons. What has made you stick with First Speed for so long?

Matias Sarvela [00:53:26]:
It's been a combination, um, as far as the teams that I've worked for. I've been very fortunate that they've, they've chosen to partner up with, with First Speed and, and choose that system for their athlete monitoring. So that's been a part of it. I think for me, the best part has been, of course, kind of the service, always being able to ask questions if you don't have a full understanding of what you need to see or how it works. I think that's been really good. And I think that's been part of kind of why you prefer going back because the metrics are simple to use and And you can always find kind of things that you can take into action right away, whether it's on a daily basis or as far as when it comes to weekly planning. So that's kind of been part of the reason why it's been so helpful for me.

Joel Venning [00:54:14]:
When we move on now from the present to the future, are there some things that you are still discovering with Firstbeat? Is there something that you still want to take in your daily routines or maybe monthly routines?

Matias Sarvela [00:54:31]:
I think just be able to create an even better, uh, better understanding of, of what load is, is, is optimal. I think that obviously there's not something that's just 100% optimal. There's always, always case-by-case scenarios, uh, but really be able to see, okay, how much we can safely push these athletes, how much we can safely push these athletes, uh, to a certain chronic workload. But then on the other side of things, looking looking at the younger players and youth athletes and how much workload we should be able to kind of accumulate from the youth days into playing in the elite leagues and how that kind of ties into the long-term athletic plan. I think that's something I'm really interested in looking at in the future.

Joel Venning [00:55:15]:
When we look at the future, where you see maybe strength and conditioning in Finland or in general heading what are the most important aspects? What are the changes in, in next 5 to 10 years? Yeah, what's, what's your take on that? Doesn't need to be fully proof and it need to happen.

Matias Sarvela [00:55:35]:
I think, I think in the next 5 years, I think there's gonna be a shift from to like a smarter decision-making. I think the performance analytics will gear towards, you know, maximizing availability and player durability. I think that's, that's I think it should go towards. I think that's where— why we should be using data is to be able to improve on-ice performance. I think that should be an end goal of each thing that we do, whether it's training or whether it's load monitoring or on-ice development. I think the other side is also kind of taking into account like the biomechanical side of skating and how we can optimize that. How can we make players Skate better? How can we analyze it better? How does their physiological profile tie into that? Very similar to what track and field coaches have done for decades, for centuries, you know, being able to analyze each athlete's ability to run, whether it's very fast or long distance. I think that's going to come into ice hockey as well in the next 5 years, and load monitoring is going to be a huge part of that because that will, again, help each coach make a decision on what this player needs to get better at.

Joel Venning [00:56:43]:
Perfect. Let's wrap this up. As mentioned and as we went through, you have a very unique career, almost a unicorn in ice hockey strength and conditioning. What has made you so special, or what is kind of your coaching philosophy in maybe in one sentence, if you can summarize that? What is the most valuable thing for you?

Matias Sarvela [00:57:06]:
I think my philosophy is just prepare athletes to perform, recover, and compete at their best, whether it's on a daily basis, on a seasonal basis, and hopefully at every single level that they're always able to play at. So I think that would be in one sentence what my philosophy is.

Joel Venning [00:57:23]:
Perfect. That sounds easy, right?

Matias Sarvela [00:57:26]:
Hopefully, hopefully sounds easy, but it takes a lot of work.

Joel Venning [00:57:29]:
It takes a lot of work. Absolutely. Matthias. I would like to thank you a lot for these great insights about your career, about how you use data, about these different cultures and how you have adapted to those. If our listeners want to contact you, where can they find you?

Matias Sarvela [00:57:46]:
Easily contacted via social media, so Instagram @coachsarvella. I think that's a kind of a low barrier way to contact me and also via email, matias.sarvella@ hifk.fi, um, is another way to contact me. And again, feel free to reach out and, and, and let's, uh, get better and, and learn from each other.

Joel Venning [00:58:06]:
Perfect. There's, there's a lot of lessons to learn from Mattias, so reach— please feel free to reach out. Thank you, Mattias. Thank you, listeners. And we will end this podcast here. Till the next time.

Matias Sarvela [00:58:19]:
Thank you very much.