Anne Genduso: A bank scam, a job that wasn't what it promised

to be, and a family betrayal.

What happens when the very people and systems that are supposed to

protect us deceive us instead?

That's what we'll explore in today's Side-Eye session with my special

guest and coaching friend, Tina Unrue.

Welcome to Nothing Felt Wrong, where we share stories about scams, deception,

and manipulation, and how ordinary people get pulled into situations that feel

believable until suddenly they don't.

I'm Anne Genduso, and if you're fascinated by deception and human

behavior, then take a seat next to me here at the Side Eye Society.

Today, we'll examine three Reddit stories that remind us of an important lesson.

People don't always get deceived because they're gullible.

Sometimes they get deceived because they're trusting the very people and

systems they've been taught to trust.

Let's get started.

Hi, Tina.

Thank you for joining us

Tina: Hi.

Happy to be here.

I'm excited

Anne Genduso: I know.

This is gonna be so much fun, and with your background as a life coach, I

think you're gonna have plenty of to say, especially when it comes to family

dynamics and all that good stuff.

Tina: I am eager to hear what these stories are for sure

Anne Genduso: Yeah.

Okay, story number one the title is US Dealing With Feelings of Shame

After Being Scammed, and the source is Reddit user KaleidoscopeHot728.

last month I fell for a scam over the phone.

It was 12:30 PM on a busy day at work, and I was grabbing some pretzels at the

vending machine for my sad desk lunch.

My bank called, and the caller ID and number that flashed up

on my phone, both 1,000% came up as being from my real life bank.

I found out later that they spoofed the number.

they informed me a woman in Detroit was trying to hack my

Zelle and send herself $2,000.

They sounded so official, asking me if I had a pen, providing case

numbers for reference, and walking me through the process to cancel the

2K transfer before it went through, giving me a cancellation number.

Little did I know they were instructing me how to transfer them the 2K.

were listed on Zelle as Chase Bank as their actual account

name, which I still have no idea how that was allowed to happen.

I called Chase, I filed a police report, and was basically told I was

SOL that neither of them could help me.

I don't quite live paycheck to paycheck, but I'm also not in the financial position

to lose 2K without making a major impact.

The hardest thing has been dealing with the relentless

shame, embarrassment, and guilt.

I'm highly educated, I have a job with lots of responsibility, I own my home, and

consider myself relatively intelligent.

mortified that I fell for this.

I feel like I let down my husband and myself.

It's been a month, and I can't stop ruminating about it.

I think about it multiple times per day.

I just feel so incredibly stupid and naive.

I feel like I'm a bad, stupid person.

No matter how many times I tell myself that dwelling in the past isn't helping,

I'm still overcome with shame and regret.

know I can't change anything, but my self-esteem has tanked

and I truly feel like one of the dumbest people in the world.

My question is, for anyone else that has gone through this, how did you

deal with the shame and humiliation?

Is this common?

Does it go away?

Any help, advice, or commiseration would be greatly appreciated.

Tina: My heart is like breaking,

Anne Genduso: I

Tina: right?

Anne Genduso: It's so bad

Tina: uh, okay, so can we just first of all, like, talk about how

ridiculous I think that it is that there's some allowable policy where

somebody could create a handle that says Chase Bank in Zelle?

Like, come on

Anne Genduso: I never, I mean, would you even have thought of that?

Like,

Tina: No

Anne Genduso: like would ever you see that and be like, "Oh, okay. Sure."

Tina: That's, like, that is sometimes what surprises me about criminals,

is like they can be super smart.

Anne Genduso: Oh,

Tina: Like I, I wouldn't even think to do that, right?

Anne Genduso: Absolutely

Tina: And so the fact that this person feels shame for being duped when like

I think I would've fallen for that too,

Anne Genduso: Yeah

Tina: if the title were that, I would have I, I think assumed that

there's no way that the, the Zelle policy in essence would allow

themselves to call themselves a bank

Anne Genduso: I know.

Um, I did wanna tell, I wanted to tell this person they're not

alone too, because you're right.

First of all, you were saying how you would fall.

I would absolutely have fallen for that, because it's an institution that you

think you're supposed to trust, right?

but also I wanted to throw a stat out here that last year people reported

losing nearly $1 billion to business impersonators, with the highest reported

losses to bank impersonators, and that's up from 866 million in 2024.

Tina: Wow

Anne Genduso: this is a hot scam, and I've actually gotten this call myself.

I don't know if you have.

Have you?

Tina: I have not.

Thank goodness, I have not

Anne Genduso: have.

only reason I figured it out, 'cause they, was they did not spoof the bank number.

They left a voice- or m- I mean, they might have even though.

But they left a voicemail and left a number for me to call back,

'cause I just don't answer my calls.

Um, and I saw the… And they left their name, the bank manager and

everything of the Fredericksburg branch.

Um, yeah, like they, they sounded legit.

And I googled quickly the manager's name of the Fredericksburg branch and the phone

number, and that's when I was like, "This is a scam." And right on my bank's website

was this big alert like, "There's scammers pretending to be us," and all of this.

So, The person's not alone.

Let's put it that way.

They're not alone.

It's very easy to get caught in this.

and this is just, this is just something that's, that's happening a lot

Tina: Right?

And can we just talk about how, I mean, these scams, I think, are becoming

more and more sophisticated, right?

Like, I got an email from some, some ridiculous scammer, but, you know,

they had taken the logo, and they had done all these things to the

email that made it look almost legit.

And so with this particular post, I think you said that the phone

number was actually spoofed.

So it's like, it actually looks like it's coming from an actual number that

this person believes is their bank.

Like, and it puts so much work on us to be able to validate things, right?

And so then when you feel, like, the sense of urgency, you know, for something,

I can see how it would be harder for us to, like, slow down and, and,

like, really start to question things

Anne Genduso: Yeah, and, and I, what I think the worst part about this,

these types of scams, which again, are on the rise, and, and there's

a reason for it, because you're borrowing, it's authority bias.

You're borrowing authority from people that have authority,

the Chase Bank, right?

Tina: Mm-hmm.

Anne Genduso: you're borrowing that and saying, "This is who I am."

And, but the part that's so ironic and horrible is that they're

saying they're, they're the fraud detection department, right?

They're calling saying, "Somebody is fraudulently getting your, your money,"

and then they're taking your money.

And it's just, ugh.

So as far as the feelings of shame and stupidity, no, you're right, Tina.

Like, the, this is highly sophisticated, and this

Tina: Mm-hmm.

Anne Genduso: just like one person doing this, like from their computer.

This is, like these scammers, like this type of scamming is from a whole network.

It's, it's in big criminal enterprise

Tina: I was about to say that.

I was like, it's like on the level of an actual business.

Anne Genduso: Yeah.

Tina: You know?

Like, this is not just your next door neighbor deciding to, you know,

Anne Genduso: Right

Tina: do a prank, right?

These are people who are likely very experienced in doing this, and

unfortunately probably have other people telling them how to do it

Anne Genduso: Oh, sure.

Yeah, they've got scripts, they got everything.

I think there are a lot of-- Some of them, and I've seen

this, they're like call centers.

They have a whole thing set up where there's, you know, they have their

scripts, they have e- everything they're supposed to say, and it

all relies on these psychological tools where a- authority bias was

the one, one of them for this one.

I think, you know, there's a few other things that doing.

I think they're also taking, fear exploitation, because you're afraid

you're gonna lose your money, and then of course you lose your money.

But that's what they're doing.

They're saying like, "Oh, be afraid. You need to do this now,

because if you don't do this now, um, you're gonna lose something."

And of course people are gonna be like, "Oh my God, I don't wanna

get scammed. So sure, let me just transfer this," or, or whatever it is.

they take-- just get your Social Security that, uh, that way, and then

they're able to open up other things.

So like there's lots of ways that this particular scam can work.

Tina: Mm-hmm.

Anne Genduso: And, and the urgency the other thing they use, right?

Like act now.

Tina: Mm-hmm.

Anne Genduso: hand-in-hand with the fear.

Act now before you lose this.

we don't want all your stuff to happen or, you know, to

get moved out of your account.

Tina: Yeah

Anne Genduso: you end up doing it anyway

Tina: I think that part is the, the part that sucks the most to me is like when

the rationale that is being given to you that, that feels like it's, it's the

compelling part, right, for the urgency, like I have to hurry up and kind of

Anne Genduso: Yeah

Tina: this thing from happening, is the very thing that, that they

are perpetrating themselves, right?

It's just like this

Anne Genduso: Yeah

Tina: awful, awful side of manipulation

Anne Genduso: Yeah, it's the irony of it all.

Tina: Yes

Anne Genduso: I can't believe, that they would do something like that.

and, you know, the urgency also means you don't have the opportunity, or you often

feel like you don't have the opportunity to stop and double-check things, and

that's where, you know, you can go…

Even if you had that little kind of feeling that something be off, you're,

like, in the moment and just wanna do it.

so, I mean, that's- that's just how we are these days.

Everyone seems to be like, move really, really fast.

Tina: Yes

Anne Genduso: but that's one thing that I think we could all do, is just

if we recognize these signs and hear that that's what they're preying on,

like, just take a beat, you know?

It's okay to hang up, and you can call back, or you can call

your bank directly or into, you know, whatever you need to do.

real fraud, um, prevention departments, first of all, if they

call, you know, of- I don't know, sometimes they call you, I guess.

I don't know.

I, I usually get, like, alerts or things like that, you know,

like, from an email or a text.

It's not a phone call.

But maybe.

I don't know.

I, they're not gonna have a problem if you wanna call back.

So if you ask them, "Hey, I need to give you a call back,"

they'll be like, "Yep, sure.

No problem."

Tina: Mm-hmm

Anne Genduso: whereas, who knows?

The scammer may, like, try to keep you on the phone, try to keep you talking, trying

to get that, press you with that urgency

Tina: Yes.

And I think that's an excellent point too, right?

Is because, you know, being able to stop it from happening in that moment, you

would likely be able to still stop it if you took a beat and took like two to three

minutes to like confirm things, right?

Like they already had however much time supposedly to call you and

see that this was happening, right?

So when you kind of really start to slow it down, then you can really start to

inspect things a bit more and really feel like you're in control, not being like

driven by the urgency of someone else.

Anne Genduso: Yeah,

Tina: Such a good point.

Anne Genduso: the hardest

Tina: Yeah

Anne Genduso: part.

as for the person's shame, honestly, thing I always say is I feel like scams are…

They're, they're evolving so quickly.

they're more sophisticated.

There's new technologies every day.

There's AI voice cloning.

There's everything, right?

They're, they're getting harder and harder to detect.

So I- I think one thing that we as a society have always done is that we've,

we've viewed, scams for something that only happened to maybe older people,

for people who are less intelligent, for people who aren't critical

thinkers, and that's why, unfortunately, like, it's a victim-shaming, right?

And it's, like, the one area we're allowed, "allowed" to victim shame

still, and why I think it really, really hurts for the victims because

either they don't feel like they're believed, or they feel like people

just are gonna assume they're stupid.

And that's part, part of what I wanna do here by talking to you about all

of this is try to say, "No, this could happen to any of us," and

Tina: Mm-hmm.

Anne Genduso: getting more difficult.

And I hope if this person happens to be listening to this podcast,

they, they really take that to heart and know that it's not their fault.

Tina: Right.

And you brought up something that was really important too, which is the

evolution of technology, specifically AI.

The fact that people's images can be used, their likeness, right, their voices.

And isn't there, like, there's, um, that scam that's been talked about

for, I think, a few years where, you know, people had been threatening

or stating that they have someone, a loved one, let's say, you know, k-

kidnapped or whatever, and you need to pay money in order to release them.

And I, and I think I had heard within the past couple of years,

like, they actually had a voice,

Anne Genduso: Yep.

Tina: AI-generated voice of that family member.

So that just, that, like, pulls on heartstrings even more so, and

then I can understand, like, the urgency and all that kind of stuff.

So, you know, it's just to this person that was involved, yes, it's not only you.

Like, every single one of us could fall for these types of things.

And it takes, into account as well, like, our own situation.

Like, what if we are, like, having a bad day or stressed out or something, right?

Like, our own mental kind of bandwidth, if you will, and our sense of capacity

kind of contributes to this as well.

So, like, if we're not doing well or we're already under stress for some

reason, then I think, like, it heightens the ability for any of us to be able

to fall for these types of things.

Anne Genduso: Absolutely.

I mean, that's the whole thing underlying all manipulation is trying

to play on people's emotions Where, where it doesn't matter, the emotion

can be a positive one too, right?

Like, there could be opportunity, like people are excited for something

or, you know, it doesn't always have to be negative, although we know

how powerful negative ones can be.

So that's why I think they, they do often do that too.

Tina: Yeah.

Ugh

Anne Genduso: I know, I know, I know.

My heart breaks too.

I'm like, "This poor person." but hopefully she can forgive herself.

like she said, it's not like it's a lot of money, but she sounds like

she's in an okay place, and she can just move on and now know, more and

maybe help somebody else so that they can avoid this in the future

Tina: Well, and I hope that they feel like they did that by posting on Reddit,

Anne Genduso: Yeah.

Tina: you know, and giving, giving voice to the experience

I think is really important

Anne Genduso: Yeah, and get a community of people who can, you

know, and just, uh, just not sitting there suffering in silence, right?

Because when you suffer in silence, then you just internalize and, and

you can ruminate, which, which they said that they were doing, Let's

move on to the second one This one is entitled How to Emotionally Recover

From a Financial Scam, it's by

Reddit user Mediocre_Lawyer5792.

I know I'm dumb to fall for this, and I'm still trying to process

everything that's happened, but the guilt is hitting me like a car crash.

A few weeks ago, I came across a website for work from home jobs, and I had been

trying to look around for a more low commitment side hustle as I was planning

to quit my full-time job by this year due to the slightly toxic environment.

listed some roles like data entry, customer service,

email, et cetera, et cetera.

Tina: Left

Anne Genduso: my name, contact number, and didn't think much of it.

Tina: The

Anne Genduso: next day, I was contacted via WhatsApp and was briefed

about a different job position.

I tried to search through my browsing history for the

website but couldn't find it.

I went ahead to Google the company name and all seems fine at this point.

I didn't go into it straight away, but prompted for more

details on the job roles and all.

This is part of a crypto company, and my role is to assist customers in converting

their money, and I get some commissions.

she had me sign up on a website, and I was awarded newbie funds for

my first day to process orders.

was just clicking the same buttons for a minimum of sixty times a day,

and at the end, ta-da, I earned a hundred and eighty-five dollars.

However, to get this fund, I needed to download a crypto app

for it to be deposited there from their platform, and then it can

be transferred to my bank account.

At this point, I was reluctant, because I didn't wanna manage so

many different apps, but the app is a legit crypto app used by traders,

and I can download it in Google Play.

So I did, and I got my first pay.

Second day, I was informed I needed to deposit US fifty dollars daily

to start, and I can withdraw it later, as withdrawal is done daily.

My thought at this point was, "Well, even without this, I'm still in a

net positive." boy, I got sucked in.

Second day went fine.

I earned seventy-five dollars minus the initial deposit.

The third day is when shit went down.

hit special orders that made my account go negative, so I had

to deposit more to clear the order and earn extra commissions.

started with depositing two hundred dollars to earn back four hundred.

Then it became depositing three K to earn six K and then six K to earn twelve

K Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God.

This one time they said that they needed to put in 22,000.

Yeah.

So there was no time for tears.

I immediately called my so-called mentor who kept coaxing me to put in this money,

and it was like I was under a spell.

I was convinced that, yes, I need to deposit another 22K to earn my pay.

Thankfully, my mom heard the convo, and her crying definitely

snapped me back into reality.

WTF was I thinking?

I'm nearing my 30s, and my mom's gonna be in her 70s soon.

We're lucky we have a secured roof over our head, and we can live comfortably,

but my mom is still unable to retire.

So fast-forward, we went to the police station, and it was two

hours of statement recording.

I can tell that my mom was trying her best not to cry and hold it together, and

this guilt has been eating me up daily.

Most nights, I wake up feeling worthless and have been losing some sleep over this.

except for the moment she caught me, she has never once blamed or berated me

for this, and I know for sure that she's also dealing with emotional drawback, but

I'm not sure what to do to help her too.

How do we both recover emotionally from this?

Tina: What a sad story My heart is breaking for them too

Anne Genduso: I

Tina: I mean, okay, so I think most people definitely want work from home jobs.

I know there are people who thrive in the workplace, and there are definitely

tons of people looking for side gigs.

And so, like, the work from home interest is unprecedented right now.

People definitely want that flexibility, additional income, like, whatever it is.

So it's so understandable that she would look for those types of jobs.

And the fact that, you know, she got the job and stuff didn't seem

to start going sideways until day two And you're already sucked in

Anne Genduso: Right.

Tina: Right?

Anne Genduso: They, they started with the carrot that they dangled, right?

Like, "Here, we're gonna give you 185 the first day."

Tina: Yes

Anne Genduso: it's, it's like that escalation.

That's what they did for these manipulations, right?

They escalated.

They start with, "We're gonna give you first, and then we're gonna

take. And then we're gonna tell you, 'Oh no, you need to do more.'"

And then they kept going until all of a sudden it's $22,000

Tina: That's painful.

Oh my word, that's painful.

Anne Genduso: I know.

Tina: The part that struck me, I think, the most was the fact that they had

what she called, I think, was a mentor.

So they added like a human element into this that seems like,

"Oh, yes, I'm here to help you.

I'm here to," right, "to be able to support you through this and, and help

you get the most money," or what have you.

I, I just… That's like another level

Anne Genduso: Right, 'cause you're actually talking to a human.

A lot of times sometimes you think that, like, if you're gonna be sucked into a

scam, you're just dealing with, someone over email or something like that.

Or I mean, and I don't know if they had, like, spoke to this person w- over the

phone, but either way, you know, having that dedicated point person, the, quote,

quote, "mentor" or boss or whatever.

Again, that goes back to authority bias.

You, you assume that that person is going to lead you in the right direction,

Tina: Yes.

Anne Genduso: they're not.

Tina: Yes

Anne Genduso: ugh, this also goes back to what we were talking about

last time too, about, like, what, what is the emotion they're drawing on?

And in this one, it was a positive one, right?

Like the remote, you said, It's opportunity.

You wanna have a remote job.

You wanna have a job, right?

You wanna have an easy job.

This person's like, "Oh, I can do the part-time gig. I can do it at home.

I can just do it on my computer." sounds very appealing at the time.

Tina: Mm-hmm.

Anne Genduso: It, it didn't have to be a fear or urgency.

It was, opportunity

Tina: For sure.

the way that I interpreted it was that each time this person talked

to their mentor, it's like they continued to get sucked in, right?

So it, it speaks to, like, the doubling down of those psychological,

like, manipulation tactics, right?

Like, being able to be somehow engaged with this person, whether it's email,

phone, video, like, whatever it is, and being able to continue to convince someone

to keep putting in more and more money.

And the only thing that it sounds like broke her ability to be swayed

by this person was her own mother

Anne Genduso: Mm.

Tina: crying.

I was like,

Wow." That just speaks to, like, the tactics of these people, and the skill

set to, to prey on the things that people possibly want for themselves or, you

know, think that they can get out of it

Anne Genduso: Yep.

Absolutely.

so they do that escalation, and then I think this kinda goes, like the

technical term of what you were just talking about was that sunk cost fallacy.

Tina: Mm-hmm.

Anne Genduso: people are like, "I've already spent this much time on it. How,

why would I… Yeah, I can do it again. and why would I wanna back out now?"

Even if they have little, thoughts, like, "Oh, I don't know. 6K putting

in would be… But it worked last time." so all of that escalation and

the sunk cost fallacy of I've put so much time and effort into this already.

there's also a little bit of identity in here, right?

Like, where you start thinking you're good at your job.

I'm savvy.

I'm good at, I'm a good investor, so this won't happen to me, or whatever it is.

so it hits kind of the identity as well, which makes people hesitant to stop or

to, to question what might be going wrong

Tina: Absolutely.

I mean, I don't think at any point in this process, right, that

this person would want to believe that they were being swindled,

Anne Genduso: Right.

Tina: right?

'Cause that speaks exactly to our identity.

Like, wait, I, I fell for this?

I'm, you know, I'm someone who got taken?

So we don't wanna think that about ourselves, so it's so much easier to be

able to look at the external situation and just listen to it on its face, right?

And be able to hear, like, "Oh, yes, I hear the justification you're

offering for this rationale. Yes, I'm gonna put my money in." Especially,

too, if you're now at a negative, and they're telling you that the way to

become whole or to gain back is, you know, potentially putting more in.

It's just-

Anne Genduso: it does go onto the fear too.

Like, because when, once they start, once you start questioning, then

you're like, "But wait, I have to do this," or, "If I don't, I'm not

gonna get, not gonna get it back."

also just wrapping it up as to making it part of your job, which you have, so

there's a sense of obligation too, right?

Like duty.

Like, this is what I'm supposed to do.

you know, that authority again.

Tina: Mm-hmm.

Anne Genduso: It just, it all, it all preys.

And I, I feel so bad because 20, I mean, $22,000 is a lot

of money for anyone, right?

Well, maybe not for billionaires, but it's, it's a lot of money

and, a, a life-changing amount of money for many people.

and again, this going back to the guilt and shame and all of those

emotions that come with this, but this is a prime example of how these are

sophisticated networks because like you said, this is not your neighbor.

This is… There is no way this is just one person just sitting

in a corner deciding to do this.

This is a whole enterprise that has come up with fake jobs.

Um, they've come up with a way to figure out what is the… I, I,

I still wanna know, this person said that they downloaded the app

and it was a real app, but was it?

Because sometimes they can clone those and they can make it look like

they're depositing money in while they're taking you know, just like

mirror screens and things like that.

I've heard of that.

So like, it's tough.

I would just say for the future in any, and just in general, any job that asks

you to give money in any way, shape, or form, whether it's to land the job or

to, you know, have to front something is most likely not a legitimate opportunity

Tina: Mm-hmm.

And you brought up something I think which is really important

as well, which is the apps, right?

Like, all we have to go on is the app stores,

Anne Genduso: Yeah

Tina: that we trust, and maybe, you know, checking Reddit or

whatever to be able to see

Anne Genduso: Yeah

Tina: in- more information about the apps.

But if those are starting to become less and less, uh, trustworthy, then that's

another level, right, of, of fear and concern that we have for ourselves about

what, what applications we put on our phone that then have access potentially

to other apps and stuff on our phone.

Like, it just… It's a whole nother level of fear people can tap into.

Ugh.

Anne Genduso: sure.

And I, I think the other little, like, kind of red flag that I would think

about for the future for anyone who's actually looking for jobs and might come

across these, is if it mentions crypto.

Like,

Tina: Right?

Anne Genduso: is just a red

Tina: It's a red flag for me, but

Anne Genduso: Yeah.

Tina: there's-

Anne Genduso: Yeah, and some people may love crypto, that's great, but

when it comes to job postings, they don't usually pay you through crypto

platforms and ask you to put the

Like, anything like that that isn't direct, like a direct deposit, something

that might be out of the normal, that's where your, radar should start beeping.

Tina: Yes, I agree with you.

Ugh, so painful

Anne Genduso: I know, I know.

again, this person, it's not your fault.

It was very sophisticated and, you're not alone.

Okay, so moving on.

This one's a little different.

This is, entitled, "Employee, father, committed fraud. What should I do?" This

is by Reddit user Evening_Formal781.

"Two years ago, I was forced to start a small contracting business

with my dad, who has 20 years of experience in agriculture.

I never had a say in anything with the business since my dad would

shrug me off and continue running it his way, even though I took

the compliance courses, et cetera.

So fast-forward a few months down the road, checks were

coming in from contracts he did.

He would camp at my mother's house, take the checks, cash them out at

who knows where, come back with cash, and deposit it into the bank.

was fishy.

There was a situation last year where he stole a $30,000 check and

only gave a fraction for payroll, Anyway, fast-forward even more.

Turns out he's under investigation by the district attorney for fraud and

creating fraudulent contracts under my name, my sister's name, and using his old

companies that were shut down years ago.

In addition, the company owes state funds California audit

Tina: $13,000,

Anne Genduso: and California's Employment Development Department taxes $2,000.

Since I own 100% of the corporation, what can I do to prevent

the debt from falling on me?

wanna close the business formally, but cannot afford a lawyer.

Any legal advice?

I also moved to Illinois.

Don't know how to handle this from here.

I've been informed through a consultant I can have the business remain open and

file a lawsuit against my dad for any damages, but only drawback, I can't afford

it." Um, and then they put an edit that the corporation was formed in California,

and they moved to Illinois last year.

"Dad continued operating the business when I was gone." So first, we're gonna say

we're not gonna give any legal advice.

We know that.

Tina: Correct.

Correct.

I'm still, like, a little confused about how this person was, like, forced to

work with their father though, right?

Like, the context is missing there

Anne Genduso: the term was interesting that, like, they, they started

off saying that I was forced.

But I think family dynamics can be so complex, and again, talk-

we talk about authority, right?

Like, someone who's supposed to protect you, someone who you're supposed

to has, has your best interest, or at least will won't harm you.

there's the prevailing theory i- in society that maybe it just, you

know… Like, think about when… I, I just know, like, the, the pressures

that people have, especially when they're young, and we don't know this

person's age, the pressures to do what the family wants, wants, right?

The family wants you to take over their business or get in

business with them or whatever.

So I can see that feeling of being forced, especially we don't know all the context

about, like, was he living under his roof?

Like, you know what I mean?

There's a whole bunch of things that could go into that.

Tina: That's very true.

Very true.

Um, the dynamic though of the son being 100% owner of the corporation

just adds like another layer of pain to this because the father was clearly

committing fraud, and you wonder if putting the corporation in the son's

name was part of that strategy, right?

To be able to just, yeah

Anne Genduso: like, I'm not, I'm not even questioning that.

I'm like, yeah, that was strategic

Tina: Ugh

Anne Genduso: that anything that bad would happen, he'd be the scapegoat

Tina: Yes.

But then that, that's just a layer of pain that we haven't experienced

with the other two stories, right?

Because this is now being perpetrated by your own father

Anne Genduso: Yep.

Tina: Like that's,

Anne Genduso: trap, right?

you defer to authority, the family structure.

The father is, you know, you know, many times viewed as the, the person who makes

decisions, so you just go along with them.

I think wording choice in here too shows a dynamic of learned powerlessness, right?

So,

Tina: Yeah

Anne Genduso: after the pattern of your dad just ignoring your input, for

the business, then you just give up.

You're like, "I'm not even gonna bother trying to say what to do anymore."

but unfortunately, by not being on top of it, then the fraud was able to

be perpetrated, and you didn't know

Tina: Mm-hmm.

and can we just talk about, like, the fact that you are talking

about this and normalizing the, the victimhood, in essence, of,

Anne Genduso: Yeah

Tina: things can take shape?

I think this is like, at least for me, it's one of the more obvious ones that I

think we all can appreciate potentially falling for or being victim to, right?

The fact that there is somebody in our family who is somehow

forcing us into business, right?

And you rattled off a few different examples of that.

Let alone just the relationship itself,

Anne Genduso: Right.

Tina: right?

Anne Genduso: Right.

Tina: you know, there could be, like, people-pleasing, like, the, the fact that

you want to help them with whatever and like, "Yes, I'll, I'll do this," right?

Even if you think it's for a short period of time.

Maybe you don't intend to do it for long, I think it's so much easier to

see how we could fall for this ourselves when it's someone in our own family

Anne Genduso: which is also what makes it so much more devastating because

it is somebo- I mean, like, ugh.

one thing if a stranger, you know, the crypto scam, right?

Like, you have a stranger who's doing this to you.

I mean, it's awful.

You lost a very large amount of money.

But when it's your own family or your, you know, spouse or whatever,

the person that you really believed in, and, and it's a long con.

This wasn't something that happened overnight.

Like, this was something that took what sounds like years in the making.

the escalation, again, of how it started with like, "Oh, he's gonna handle

the finances. Oh, he forgot payroll." You know, just like all these little

things that add up, just makes it so utterly devastating because you feel

like you've misplaced that trust, and you don't even know when and where

it could have stopped or how you should have known in the first place.

Tina: Mm-hmm.

It makes it so much more difficult to reconcile everything, Because

then I can also see the, the length of the con being extended because of

the potential rationalizations that we would make for ourselves, right?

Like,

Anne Genduso: Absolutely.

Tina: mean, we talk about age, Uh, we don't know the age of this person,

we don't know the age of the father.

And so I could see it at least being like, oh, he forgot payroll.

You know, it just

Anne Genduso: Oh

Tina: slipped his mind, right?

Or like you're rationalizing and justifying the potential reasons for

things happening until you are so deep in it that you can no longer continue to

rationalize it, and then you're having to come to terms with what's actually

being done to you by someone that you love

Anne Genduso: Right.

Then you have the ca- State of California coming after you, and you're like, "U-

oh." you're right, like all those little justifications that you tell yourself.

yeah, 'cause there's always a million reasons.

And, and it's funny because I'm a person that likes to proceed from charitable

assumption, meaning I always wanna assume the best, and until someone

proves otherwise, I want to assume the best intent from that person.

and that may be really helpful.

In fact, it's something I've been taught in coaching and talked about

with, like, with my team members in previous jobs and things like that.

I was taught that, right?

Like charitable assumption, because as soon as you, if you start, like filling

in the gaps with your assumptions, that can cause conflict, and so it's a, it's

a big conflict management strategy.

However,

when you do that on a repeated basis or in the case of scammers,

people who you don't know, right?

Like you don't know if this could be somebody that you are sup- you

were supposed to trust, your, your dad, your boss, whatever it is.

They, you know, it's almost like you can't ignore your intuition though, too, because

if you do, you just start all those rationalizations and justifications and,

charitable assumption can become a weapon

Tina: Yes.

And I mean, I have to say I'm with you completely charitable, giving people

the benefit of the doubt, and I have definitely done that for too long with

some people and completely been burned.

So i-

Anne Genduso: Yeah.

Tina: it's just, yeah.

Um, oh, what a painful thing to have to experience.

Anne Genduso: I know.

here's a question for you, Tina, and I'm sure you'll have an answer

right off the tip of your tongue.

How do you become a person who doesn't turn bitter and doesn't like question

everything, so that you can still have charitable assumption occasionally?

Like, how do you walk that line?

Tina: Oh, my word.

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you.

I don't know that I have anything off the tip of my tongue.

Um,

Anne Genduso: knew it.

Well, it's a tough one.

That's why I was joking when I said

Tina: y- of course, of course, to me, I feel like there's a level of

acceptance that we have to be able to give to situations clearly when

they've already happened, right?

Like, we can't change it.

We cannot change it,

Anne Genduso: Yeah

Tina: all we can do is try to learn from them.

And, and in this specific example, I think it's really hard to walk

the line of not being bitter, especially when it's a family member.

Like, it's… This is not a stranger.

This is a family member.

Like, this, your, your whole family dynamic has to change after this.

Anne Genduso: Sure

Tina: I, I can imagine.

but I'm also someone who has done so much of my own work to be able

to know, like, that bitterness is gonna eat me alive inside.

Anne Genduso: Sure.

Tina: I have to allow the people who did me harm, 'cause I even said that,

you know, I've had people who have burned me in the past, their actions

are a reflection of them, not me.

Anne Genduso: Oh, so wise.

So wise.

Tina: Right?

But there's also grief that has to just be processed through this, right?

The sense of loss, the sense of struggle that this person

is navigating, just all of it.

There's just a lot to carry there.

and I can just see that that would be a difficult road to navigate for a while.

if I had to give a short answer, it would be as best you can navigate that and

carry only what is yours to carry and let

Anne Genduso: Yeah

Tina: the, the person who did you wrong own their choices and their behavior

Anne Genduso: Yes, yes, yes, 100 times yes.

And what I really love about what you just said too is that you are isolating

it to this incident, meaning, like, for example, this person can move forward

and know that maybe you stay bitter towards your dad, if that serves you.

Maybe bitterness isn't the thing, but point being is you

don't let that person back in.

You've learned.

You, you do what you need to do.

But isolate it to the person or the instance that actually happened here,

which in this case was the father, and so that you don't necessarily go into

new relationships with baggage and, or, you know, maybe viewing everybody…

That, that, that's what I guess I'm getting at.

Like, I don't want it to be like… I, I would hate it if you just see, view the

world as everybody's out to get you, and then you don't ever wanna open up again.

so I think that answer of, just really focusing on what was within your control,

what happened, and how it was this particular instance does not mean that

the next instance, your mother, is going to do the same thing or, you know, your

future spouse or partner or whatever.

if something this devastating ever did, this, like, earth-shattering,

identity-shattering too, 'cause again, you view, like, your parents as certain

things and yourself as certain things, I think I would have to isolate it that way

Tina: Yeah.

we can still, I think, do ourselves justice by understanding that

this is situational, yes, right?

Like, this is, this does not have to keep repeating or I don't have to

see every sing- single relationship through a lens of fear because of what

I experienced, right, with my father.

but we can also reflect ourselves too and understand, like, what boundaries might

I need to put into place going forward.

Like, maybe I'll never be in business with a family member, Like, you'll

make certain, certain boundary decisions for future situations that

help you feel a bit more protected.

Anne Genduso: That's the coach side of you coming out, right?

Like,

Tina: No, they're not

Anne Genduso: looking at the lesson and yeah, 'cause there's al- there is

always a lesson in something, even if it's a, a devastating uh, lesson and

a hard one to learn, like there's, there's something to be learned in that.

And yeah, I love that thought of putting new boundaries or yeah, maybe you don't

get into business with family members.

Maybe it's It doesn't matter if somebody pushes back, I still

wanna be on top of things.

I need to have the insight in finances.

Whatever it is for you.

That's super wise.

Thank you so much, Tina.

I am so glad you joined us today.

Like, this is… Y- you know I always love our conversations and the fact

that we could do it together and on such an important topic, and

you had such wonderful is- wisdom and insights, and I hope a lot of

people take away, those lessons

Tina: Well, thanks for having me.

I was really excited for this opportunity in, in hearing the scams and all that,

and I think what you're doing is super important to be h- able to help, normalize

what we all can experience as humans.

So thanks for the opportunity

Anne Genduso: All right, Side Eyers, I hope you enjoyed today's episode,

and if you did, make sure to like and subscribe so you never miss a thing.

Let's leave you with this week's side eye question so you can weigh in.

know that even the smartest people can get duped, and for manipulators,

it's all about finding that right vulnerability to exploit.

So thinking about these three stories, which one stuck with you most?

which one made you think, "Yeah, I absolutely would have trusted that"?

Drop your answer in the comments and let's discuss.

And if you're listening on a podcast app, leaving a rating or a review

can help even more Side Eyers find the show And finally, if you have

your own story of deception, scams, or manipulation, we wanna hear them.

Email us at stories@nothingfeltwrong.com.

We may feature your story in a future episode, and we'll keep everything

anonymous for legal protection.

Because the more stories we share without shame, more we erase the stigma associated

with being a victim, and we take the power back from these awful perpetrators,

because it can happen to any of us.

Because nothing felt wrong until it did