Jayne Ray: Hi everyone, I'm Jayne Ray, and welcome to another episode of Joyous Journeys Over 60. As always, I'm joined by my fabulous podcast partner.

Andreas Stein: Well, you are fabulous. I'm just Andreas.

Jayne Ray: And, you know, it's funny, Andreas, based on what we're going to talk about today, but we are not in the same place this summer. I'm in Georgia, Florida, so we are maximizing technology to be able to keep creating our episodes for the podcast.

Andreas Stein: And isn't this great, Jayne? I mean, through technology, we can stay connected, keep talking, even though, what is it, there's 500 miles between us, 600? I don't even know how many miles, just…

Andreas Stein: A lot of them.

Jayne Ray: It's about 10 and a half hours of driving.

Andreas Stein: business.

Jayne Ray: cleanup. So, yeah, that's… it's not a short… it's not a short distance. But, today.

Jayne Ray: I want to talk about something that's kind of personal to me, but also to my generation.

Jayne Ray: And that's the… Fear of technology.

Jayne Ray: You know, I told you, I was very blessed that I was able to move into a technology career. I'm not a technical person, let me just qualify that. I'm not a software engineer, I don't write code, I never did. I didn't write apps, I didn't… I was very fortunate to be able to

Jayne Ray: be the user.

Jayne Ray: advocate.

Jayne Ray: for technology for most of my career. So, started off when, you know, help desks weren't really help desks, but people needed guidance in how to use the emerging technologies, and

Jayne Ray: And I had a knack for it. And again, to this day, I would tell you I am not a technical person at all. I mean, can I look at your laptop and give you an idea of what I think is wrong? Yes. But, I don't really know what's going on behind the scenes, other than

Jayne Ray: How to use the technology to the benefit of either a business or, you know, for your personal needs.

Jayne Ray: But as I've gotten older, one thing I've noticed, and you know, I've said this many times, I've just entered my 70s, so many of my contemporaries

Jayne Ray: believe that…

Jayne Ray: they can't handle technology. They're not smart enough, they don't know how to do it, they're afraid of it, it's… I want to use my phone to make a phone call, but that's the least use of our phones.

Andreas Stein: I don't have a cell phone to make a phone call.

Jayne Ray: Right. I would like to make a phone call with my phone, and ironically, if you looked at, you know, the usage of your personal phone, probably making phone calls is the least amount of usage. It is overwhelming. It is overwhelming.

Jayne Ray: And, you know, we were talking about it before we started recording, so I graduated high school in 1971, the year that you were born.

Andreas Stein: That's true.

Jayne Ray: So, you were making…

Andreas Stein: You're like a baby.

Jayne Ray: I'm old… I'm getting older by the minute. But in… in 1971,

Jayne Ray: You know, my family, well, in the 60s, you know, when we got our first colored TV, that was a big innovation, right? When we got, my sister and I got our own phone, and our own phone number, that was an innovation. You know, innovation kind of came…

Jayne Ray: you know, with enough time to kind of absorb, to become familiar with, to become comfortable with. And then in 1971, when I graduated high school and went into college, suddenly friends of mine were taking computer programming classes.

Jayne Ray: And, you know, remember, at the time, your computer screen

Jayne Ray: was black with some green letters on it. Didn't have the friendly interfaces we have today that, you know, the user capabilities were really nominal. And businesses would… were first starting to bring technology in. I mean, I… my first job, I was typing on a typewriter.

Jayne Ray: And I was pretty good at it. And then we went to an electric typewriter, and that was, like, a very, very big… a very big deal. But I remember when I was in, school.

Jayne Ray: One of my teachers said something I've never forgotten. She said, by the time you're an adult.

Jayne Ray: There will be a computer in every home.

Jayne Ray: And we couldn't even imagine it, right? We couldn't… because they were these big machines that spit out cards, and I don't know what was on the cards, some zeros and ones and whatever, and it was unfathomable that we would use computers in our everyday life. And now, fast forward to 2026, and, you know, this little device…

Jayne Ray: is in everybody's pocket or purse, and it's become a little bit of the center of our universe. Okay. Right?

Andreas Stein: Absolutely.

Jayne Ray: I think for my generation, if you go back to 1971 and fast forward to 2026, The rapid pace.

Jayne Ray: The acceleration of technology has outpaced Our ability to absorb.

Jayne Ray: Alright, if you were… if you were young, you grew up with it. You know, my daughter… Right. 18 months. She doesn't know what it was like not to.

Jayne Ray: Have a computer.

Andreas Stein: I think part of the challenge Jayne for…

Andreas Stein: For you, even for my generation, is…

Andreas Stein: The pace at which technology changes is…

Andreas Stein: so breathtaking. You look back 4 or 5 years ago, what's a big thing technology-wise today? You know, the whole chat GPT AI thing didn't exist for… I mean, it existed, but not for the common man or woman on the street, right? Today, that's the bad thing, so it seems like

Andreas Stein: Kind of the daunting… perspective of things is, well, if I learn it in 3 years, it's outdated anyway.

Andreas Stein: So there is this intimidation factor, you know, so it's, you know, should I even try to keep up with it? Okay, I need a phone to make phone calls, you know, and certain things, I get that, but should I really try to keep learning the latest developments? Because…

Andreas Stein: A, it takes a little bit longer to learn new things the more… the older we get. Is that a fair statement? I think it… it is.

Andreas Stein: And it takes longer, but… and by the time I learned it, well, that's nice, but no, here's the next new thing.

Jayne Ray: Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, there is a belief or misbelief that as you age, you get set in your ways, but you're right.

Jayne Ray: just about the time that you get comfortable with some technology, social media, Facebook, right? You know, Facebook is social media for older people. Once you get comfortable with that, now 9 different new platforms have emerged.

Jayne Ray: Yeah. And everybody's talking about Snapchat, and TikTok, and Instagram, and WhatsApp, and again, just…

Jayne Ray: blows your mind that, you know, all you really ever wanted to know how to do was Facebook.

Jayne Ray: Or texting, right? I mean, you watch the kids and they go… I still can't do that, right? I'm still a one… Right. Like, when I was typing, you know, my dad was the one-finger typer.

Andreas Stein: Absolutely.

Jayne Ray: a one-finger texter. But okay, learning how to text.

Jayne Ray: And getting comfortable with…

Jayne Ray: how to do that, which is basically pretty easy, right? But the point is, it's new, it's different, it's a new way of communicating with other people, and if you're communicating with anyone under the age of 50, probably it's the only way they want to communicate, right? So, yeah, there's a big change there.

Andreas Stein: This is so interesting. Now, even I found this out. So, I'm of a… and maybe this is more my personality, my generation.

Andreas Stein: But if there is really anything remotely meaningful to talk about, I make a phone call.

Andreas Stein: I'm not texting it, I'm not emailing… I mean, yeah, I text, I email about, you know, hey, let's set a… find a time to meet, you know, does tomorrow 10 o'clock work? Whatever, you know, some basic stuff along those lines. If there's anything meaningful.

Andreas Stein: But I find out a lot of people don't like to be called anymore. It's almost, like, invasive, you know? And I'm not talking about calling in the middle of the night or some strange times.

Andreas Stein: You know, I remember, you know, just last week, it just made me smile. So, I'm working here with a non-profit here in town, and the director there and I, you know, started to talk about plans and ideas and doing this and doing that, and…

Andreas Stein: It's kind of gaining a little bit of momentum, which is great, you know, so, you know, if my phone rang, she called, the first thing, I apologize for calling you. I said, why do you apologize for calling me? It was a normal time, like 10 in the morning, you know, it wasn't some strange time, I said.

Andreas Stein: Well, you know, I mean, we're sorry for cold calling you. I mean, cold calling me, it's… we have talked, we have met, we have, you know, we are brainstorming all… of course you would call me if there is something, but it was almost… she's probably 30-something. For her, making a phone call to someone is just like…

Andreas Stein: unusual You text. That's it.

Andreas Stein: You email if possible, but for me, kind of, you know, it's… I don't know, I have a hard time getting used to this. If I want to talk to you about something meaningful, I call you up, whether you like this or not.

Jayne Ray: Well, it's interesting, because, you know, if you go back generations, showing up unannounced at the door.

Andreas Stein: Yes!

Jayne Ray: I was… was called… and now, showing up on the phone is,

Andreas Stein: How dare you call me, you know.

Jayne Ray: Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so, You know, in our generation, 50, 60 years, So much has changed.

Andreas Stein: changed.

Jayne Ray: as far as technology crossing the chasm into mainstream. You know, there's a Rogers adoption curve, right, where there's the early adopters, and then, you know, it kind of goes to the early mass, and then it crosses the chasm into the, into the majority.

Jayne Ray: Right? Into where it becomes commonplace in our society. You know, iPhones, in the beginning, iPhones were, you know, were new, nobody used them. Now everybody has an iPhone or a Samsung phone, or whatever. Becomes commonplace. A tablet, a computer, a laptop, all of those kind of crossed the chasm, but they crossed

Jayne Ray: almost in succession right after each other. And so, for our generation, over 50 years, we've seen more technology changes, and by the way, they haven't stopped.

Jayne Ray: Alright? That, you're right.

Jayne Ray: being able to learn it, to feel comfortable with it, is something we didn't grow up with. And then I think…

Jayne Ray: either whether it's internal or external, we don't believe we're capable. And that makes me angry, because there is not a single person that I know my age, younger, older, that is not fully capable of learning any of these apps or phones or computers.

Jayne Ray: Mostly because, as I said, I was a user advocate. They have been designed to be user-friendly. They are designed that you do not need to know what's happening behind the scenes.

Jayne Ray: They are designed that's a… basically, you can't really do any harm to your phone. You really can't do a lot of harm to your computer, right? So, they are designed so that

Jayne Ray: Yeah, you may hit a screen you don't want, and you have to go back, or you may, not know what you're doing, and you close the app, and you start again, right? There is nothing…

Jayne Ray: Almost nothing that you could do that would ruin your computer or ruin your phone.

Jayne Ray: So, part of it is, is the confidence to believe that, you know, and you said it, before.

Jayne Ray: Almost everyone we talked to

Jayne Ray: you raised children, you had a career, you were in the workplace, you, you know, you… you had your own level of success, whatever that was, in everything you did. I mean, children weren't born with a manual, we had to learn how to read them too, right?

Jayne Ray: you know, everything you did, whether you were a stay-at-home mom or a CEO,

Jayne Ray: We were totally capable of doing. And our generation in particular were encouraged to learn.

Jayne Ray: To learn, to explore, to be creative, to be curious. And now, at this point, I've met way too many people.

Jayne Ray: That are… oh, I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't… do you know how to use ChatGPT? You open the app, and you ask it a question. That's it.

Andreas Stein: But what do you think is the reason behind it? Is it convenience? Is it, you know what, I don't need this stuff anyway, I have all I need and more, I don't need to add one additional tech stuff to that layer?

Andreas Stein: Is it maybe, you know, kind of realizing, getting this implied message from younger generations, the rolling eyes, the kind of, you know, yeah, you kind of passed anyway, you know, so just don't bother? But what is behind this mindset? Well, I can't do this. Objectively, it's wrong, you can't do it.

Andreas Stein: Does it take you longer to learn it? Possibly.

Andreas Stein: But you can.

Andreas Stein: So what's behind?

Andreas Stein: that mindset, well, I can learn that.

Jayne Ray: I think it's all of the above. I think… I think there's an internal lack of confidence.

Andreas Stein: No.

Jayne Ray: It's technology, right? So it's… it's that newfangled thing. And by the way, just as… just as soon as you got comfortable with the old-fangled technology, the new…

Jayne Ray: Fangle Tech. And let me say something, because I think it's important. You don't have to learn at all.

Andreas Stein: Right.

Jayne Ray: a couple of apps, a weather app, a social media app if you want. I track my calories on a free app. You know, pick a couple of apps that are meaningful to you.

Andreas Stein: Right.

Jayne Ray: you know, FaceTime to be able to talk to your family. You know, things like that that are meaningful to you and benefit your life. But to answer your question, I also think that there's…

Jayne Ray: influence, I'm trying to find a kind word… where…

Jayne Ray: You're right, there's a lot of eye-rolling, and there's a lot of…

Jayne Ray: outward or inward messages that, I'm sorry, you can't do this.

Jayne Ray: Right? It's beyond you. You're too old for this. You know, oh mom, oh dad, oh, so this, because

Jayne Ray: this next generation that we raise don't remember not having technology. I said my daughter's first, experience on a computer, she was 18 months, banging on a painting program.

Jayne Ray: My grandson, you know, he's 4, he knows how to FaceTime me. So they do not ever remember a time when this was just the normal part

Jayne Ray: of their everyday lives. And they will see more acceleration, too, because I would tell you, we're not done yet. But… but it's normal for them. For us, it wasn't. For us, getting a color TV was kind of a big deal.

Andreas Stein: Rich.

Jayne Ray: The original cell phones, do you remember the original bricks?

Andreas Stein: huh?

Andreas Stein: You know what was the biggest step for me? You remember these…

Andreas Stein: dinosaur television, they were so heavy, or they were small, but they were so heavy, you almost needed three men to carry that thing in. Now you have these humongous flat… and they were deep, like, I mean, you needed to have, I mean, like, an extra large room. Now these flat-screen TVs, I mean.

Andreas Stein: lightweight, huge, nice, I mean, and just… for me, that was a progression in technology that I so much loved. I remember the first TVs you bought, you almost needed to hire two guys to get this thing in.

Andreas Stein: Now you have literally That's a wall.

Jayne Ray: From my boss. So, I'll tell you a funny story. So, I worked for a law firm, and when we settled a big case, he would take us out to dinner, and that year at Christmas, he gave half of the staff those big, giant console TVs.

Andreas Stein: Yeah.

Jayne Ray: And by the way, it lasted about 20 years.

Andreas Stein: Yes!

Jayne Ray: The other half of the staff, the Sony Betamax, not VHS, but the Sony Betamax, things that you could put the tape in and record. Yeah. Well, within 2 years, Betamax was out and VHS was in. Right. My TV lasted 20 years, theirs probably lasted about 2, but… and I think that may be…

Jayne Ray: A good example of why we're reluctant about

Jayne Ray: Because we've also seen investments, maybe, that we've made.

Jayne Ray: you know, now you need to get a phone, what, every 2 or 3 years? And they're, you know, they're costly, even if you're paying them off on an investment plan. So part of it, it could be a financial consideration, but we've also seen the obsolescence of technology happen faster.

Jayne Ray: Than, you know, any other time in history where, you know, you buy this, and 2 or 3 years later, it's obsolete.

Jayne Ray: And I gotta buy something else. And so, you know, the internal confidence issues plus the monetary issues.

Jayne Ray: But… I want to… I want everybody walking away from this episode with a very specific message.

Jayne Ray: You are smarter than you think, and you're smarter than they're treating you.

Andreas Stein: Yep.

Jayne Ray: So, there is no reason in the world that, that

Jayne Ray: anyone. I don't care if you're 90, I don't care if you're 60, I don't care if you're 40,

Jayne Ray: that cannot… Learn to use some of these very, very basic apps.

Andreas Stein: Yeah.

Jayne Ray: Do you need to know them all? No. Do you need to know what's going on behind that screen? No.

Jayne Ray: Right? Do you need to be smart about purchases? Yes. I think that the younger generation will always want to buy the latest, greatest, newest, blah blah blah blah blah.

Andreas Stein: Yeah.

Jayne Ray: We don't need that. We've seen too much of that where you've thrown your money away, like you said with the LED TVs, right? So, I mean, the good news is, but now they're considered consumable.

Jayne Ray: So, for a younger generation, well, 50 inch was pretty big, now they want 70 inch, or 90 inch, and, you know, they're willing to pony up the money for that. We don't need to do that either. But, as far as usefulness, as far as making your life easier.

Jayne Ray: Particularly some of the apps for your phone. Again, you don't need to know them all, and your insurance company and your doctor and your utilities want you to be able to optimize using online capabilities. And you are capable.

Jayne Ray: Yes, you are. Don't let anybody tell you that you can't pay a bill online, or you can't look up the weather, or you can't FaceTime with your grandchild. There is nothing in technology that you are not capable of, and if it makes you feel better.

Jayne Ray: There are classes, the library has classes, there are online tutorials, YouTube is amazing for giving you 5 minutes on how to use a particular app. Now you have to learn how to use YouTube, but guess what? You go to YouTube.com, and in the search box, you search, you know, how do I blah blah blah.

Jayne Ray: You don't have to be fancy about it, just, how do I blah blah blah? You want an answer? Go to ChatGPT, download the app, and just ask it a question. It may not give you the answer you're looking for, it may give you way too much information, but it's as simple as that. It's as simple as that.

Jayne Ray: And so, if you are intimidated, if you are overwhelmed, if you're suffering from Technophobia.

Jayne Ray: Again, you don't have to do it all.

Jayne Ray: But you also don't need to be afraid that you're not capable, because you are.

Andreas Stein: you… it's not just that you're capable, I think… technology…

Andreas Stein: It will make your life richer, more connected, deeper, Easier.

Andreas Stein: as you said so powerfully, you don't need to chase the trends, you know, what's the latest, the newest, who cares? You know, maybe something is really great, and you should, but there's no need to chase trends.

Andreas Stein: To compare, oh, my neighbor friend has this latest piece of technology, whatever else.

Andreas Stein: But…

Andreas Stein: technology, it's not just that it gives you access to information, it gives you access to services to your doctor, it gives you the ability to remain connected to people in ways your life

Andreas Stein: As a result of technology, will be just so much deeper and better.

Jayne Ray: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And, you know, for whatever time we have left on this earth, You know, having…

Jayne Ray: having a good experience, right? Making your life easier, and maybe even getting a little joy out of the use of technology. You know, you and I watch Coco Doodle every day, that's my joy.

Andreas Stein: for Doodle is.

Jayne Ray: Right, and it's an AI dog.

Andreas Stein: thing ever.

Jayne Ray: I'm sorry, if you want to smile every day, it's Coco Doodle. Those are the kind of things that just make life…

Andreas Stein: It's a little thing, it's cute, it's sweet, it's… yeah, you know it's AI-produced, but it's the sweetest thing ever. And you can't just not watch it and walk away with a smile and feeling warm around your heart.

Jayne Ray: I bought a Coco Doodle t-shirt, I have to.

Andreas Stein: Did you? I didn't even know they exist, but I'm not surprised, I guess.

Jayne Ray: All right, anyhow, we are going to close this technology, and in a couple of future episodes, I would really like to address how we use technology to stay connected.

Andreas Stein: Yes.

Jayne Ray: Talk about it.

Andreas Stein: Absolutely.

Jayne Ray: Talk about our families, talk about our friends, new friends, old friends, and I think this is just a good segue for that.

Andreas Stein: Absolutely.

Jayne Ray: So, wishing you all a joyous journey. Your homework for this week is if you have not, you know, used, an app that you've been very interested in, download it. What happens? You delete it because you didn't like it.

Andreas Stein: Oh, absolutely, this, you know, happens to me all the time. I download something, yeah, that's not what I thought, that's not what I want, that's not what I need.

Andreas Stein: Uninstall, gone it is.

Jayne Ray: And gone it is, right? Gone it is. No ghosts left behind on your phone. There we go. I'm Jayne Ray, and I am happy to have spent this time with my friend.

Andreas Stein: Andreas Stein?

Jayne Ray: Wishing you joyous journeys, always.