[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to another episode of the baseball America fantasy podcast is your host Jeff Ponds alongside me this week writing as my co-host is a former co-host of mine a long time ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: many, many moons ago, almost probably a decade ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have a terrifying of say, isn't it?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Lance Frostowski heard his voice, so I'll give you the full intro.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it's been a long time.

[SPEAKER_01]: We were chasing Boba Shetton, Vlad D'Rarro, and he was cross-bex and Raphael Devers.

[SPEAKER_01]: Brendan Rogers.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of the less, less Sean Reed Foley.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's some deep cut names there, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: How old are you?

[SPEAKER_00]: How old are you?

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I heard New Hampshire team.

[SPEAKER_01]: They had like six or seven big leaders.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even Jonathan Davis got up to the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: So.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have some history.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've been talking baseball for a long time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, you know him from Marky and, you know, as coverage with the Cubs, but also I think probably my favorite baseball newsletter at the moment, you're pitching your pitching breakdowns.

[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone that's not subscribed to that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I encourage you to subscribe, but you're pitching breakdowns of minor leagueers.

[SPEAKER_01]: You've mixed in some college stuff, but primarily like the major leagues and as somebody who has to watch.

[SPEAKER_01]: forward to six minor league games during a day, this time of year I can max with the DSL games on YouTube and the mornings.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm constantly watching ball, but I don't see as much MLB as I probably want to, so I can't necessarily dive into some of these pictures.

[SPEAKER_01]: You do a great job of breaking down arsenal changes and just sort of execution, like, you know, a lot of different factors obviously with pitching

[SPEAKER_01]: Break down every detail, but I think you do a great job there.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's very worth reading.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I always love your prospect breakdown.

[SPEAKER_01]: You obviously have some history covering prospects as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I know that it comes from a place of, you know, a lot of knowledge and experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to bring you on the show today and through some names at you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to dive into some of these, these different pitching prospects and get your thoughts on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll talk some data.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk some some performance and just sort of overall thoughts on where these guys are going to end up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, through it, man, yeah, I'm excited for this isn't going to be a lot of fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do feel like my, I'm sure you're in the same way, but the way you look at pitching processes is probably changed.

[SPEAKER_00]: My approach to pitching prospects has been different over the last couple years.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say that I like, I go through like waves of it just because I have to like balance.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I do a lot of, I will be coverage and that's where my brain's at for a couple months.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then,

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'll early season will update my like top 40 top 50 pitching prospect list.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I'll dive really having to draft stuff for two months and prep for MLB network work.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I'll come out of that go back to MLB.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then now in this moment in time, I'm like, just about to get back into more of like the deep dive prospect stuff to update my top 50.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I've like, I haven't broached that yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: I cracked open the file and I started like doing the graduations, which I'm sure you're familiar with, like, this guy's not here anymore, not the rank them, which is lovely sometimes and also like, how's your on a song not graduated yet is like very frustrated, you know, so so you know the waves of the season for me have definitely changed, but yeah, I guess I think I approach pitching prospects, maybe a little different because I am out of a loop a lot of the time with.

[SPEAKER_00]: Who has who where, you know, like I definitely lock on the bigger releases and updates, but I intentionally try not to look at lists prior to my updates.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I'll go right right after I do my list.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll look at everybody's you know, so I'm blind to like where you guys have a lot of these names, unless you've kept them where they were early in the year.

[SPEAKER_00]: So.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll be fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll stop really rambling with you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they all kind of move around and I think, you know, it's different to because you're list is like your personal list where you're just like a aggregate, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's it's kind of industry feedback that, you know, we're constantly getting

[SPEAKER_01]: when it's siloed with an org and that kind of feeds into like that kind of tributaries that feed me the bigger stream of like the top 100 and all those sort of rankings.

[SPEAKER_01]: This time of year you kind of fold in draft stuff, which I very little to do with sort of break ranking and grading.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, there's sort of like some systems, some guys that you're

[SPEAKER_01]: ahead on other guys, you're maybe a little behind on.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like this, this given take all the time where my personal list systems top 100s looks different than even some of the lists that like I publish like my top 30s.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like if I don't get enough scout feedback on a particular guy, like I can't necessarily like shove them up the board.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like a famous one was nobody had David Schneider as a top 30 prospect a few years ago prior to like his breakout.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like if you look the underlying data in the performance, it was like, well, in a bad system, this guy's got at least be like, top 20.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I put, I put them on there with with no feedback though.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there are times it like I'll move a guy on, but I would say that like my personal opinions.

[SPEAKER_01]: probably differ a little bit from like even what we have on the site.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like they're certain, I think that's good though.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think that's what's that's what's interesting about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: You get the kind of spectrum of opinions, which sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's just, uh, you gotta get a lot of information.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think before guys get, like, do you get something like a scoreboard?

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a little like an internal doc where it's like, oh, yeah, 24.

[SPEAKER_00]: Jeff had this guy here and he actually ended up being here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think I would keep score if I was working at BA.

[SPEAKER_01]: We sort of know like there's certain guys that are like your guys and I think there's other players that where we have like a general consensus on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I also think there's like a difference in like feedback versus like what are opinions on.

[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes like they can trust like I think that's something that um,

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't always agree with like even like smart people I talk to like there's times right just yeah, I'd be immediately disagree about a particular player here or there I'm not going to throw it any you know particular example, but that happens that said what started off with I think it's the theme new Hampshire right like I have some history there.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll start out with a New Hampshire's native son here, Liam Doyle, was a course of first round pick of the Cardinals.

[SPEAKER_01]: Back in 2025, there were a ton of top of the draft college pictures this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: So far, I would say, Kate Anderson is the only one that's really like kind of ascended at Chase Burns Paul Gaines.

[SPEAKER_01]: He hasn't been moved as fast, but a guy that like, okay, he came right into Pro Ball.

[SPEAKER_01]: He looks phenomenal.

[SPEAKER_01]: He looks like he's M'll be ready right from the job.

[SPEAKER_01]: That has not been the case with Doyle.

[SPEAKER_01]: He has been a lot better of late.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll just throw these numbers out of you before we start right now, but last eight starts.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even phenomenal start last night, arguably set on the first 14 batters he faced.

[SPEAKER_01]: Arguably it was maybe the best I've ever seen Liam Doyle, even dating back to his time at Tennessee, his secondaries were on the zone.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of been a big point of contention for him this year and just in terms of his he controlling, you know, the splitter is in his couple of breaking ball shapes.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not always consistently there, but last eight starts 39.2 innings.

[SPEAKER_01]: 23 hits eight earn runs 22 walks 51 case.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a 1.8 to ERA 1.69 batting average against 32.1% KRA 13.8% walk rate.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the walks are still there.

[SPEAKER_01]: The command is still a question, but he's missing bats and getting out in a difficult week.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what are your thoughts on Doyle at this point?

[SPEAKER_00]: Big fan.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had a number four on my top 50 when I updated that three months ago, three new four months ago, whatever, like late May early May.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's fun, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's really a picture.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'm fading a little bit of the walk side of things in my assumption that I, I'm not totally worried about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know it's more average strike average zone.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do feel like lefties can get away with a little more out of zone than righties a lot of the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think as a general like very high level template, it's

[SPEAKER_00]: cool and also probably the correct way to really bet on forcing shape.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think even some of the orders I've talked to you that are more anti-foreseen.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you like the marlins are doing this in the miners or they're just fading into the majors as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think even they internally are just like, yeah we hate forcing fastballs, but

[SPEAKER_00]: There are forcing festivals that we will throw 45 to 55% of the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just their fun far between.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think a lot of pitching prospect ranks is trying to identify those guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then once you identify them, looking at the ones you think have a little bit of an ability to get on the side of the ball and hold Velo, create some kind of like hard depth, or have some kind of on-side option that is good.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then those are the guys that end up like top 10 for me, most of the time, on my lists.

[SPEAKER_00]: This list in particular is a little weirder.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there aren't a ton of those guys are the ones that do exist.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think are a little further off That's why I have set their name as one.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he has both these traits we're talking about Okay, I know we were actually texting before this list came out.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had Kate Anderson when I flipped it again both same tiered me were split in hairs But Doyle I like a lot like I just think the forcing's great.

[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't sitting on each six

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like 19 and in nine arm side year over year I see that he kind of shifted on the rubber a little moved over towards the first base side it seems like that kicked up is slot a little that made the forcing a little better in the stuff model I have a kind of grades out the shape you added like inch of verdant took a little bit of arm side away and it also seems like it affected his breakers a little he's got a little more like depth drop on him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I got like a short one at like 86ish, like zero vertical, like seven horizontal.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like in between that babyish angle of baby sweeper, I guess you could call it if you want to sub categorize a sweeper.

[SPEAKER_00]: I did talk to someone in the Cardinals order that told me that is two shapes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you have a tag just to, but I often run this where the data I get is a little bit messy in terms of parsing out, especially like tight gyro breaking ball shapes.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I do believe there's like a little bit slower of a depthier kind of sweeper

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I like it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a picture.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like a it's a gyro that's kind of blended in the numbers with like a more of a slurvy kind of breaking ball.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a little bit like a little bit longer in terms of horizontal.

[SPEAKER_01]: Where this is like a gyro that almost has like a cut gyro where it has like three or four inches of like horizontal, but it's kind of like zero for, you know, so it kind of moves and kind of looks like a gyro at times, but he throws it hard throws the splitter hard the splitter was a good pitch even a Tennessee just didn't need to like throw it a ton.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the thing about that the sliders that's pretty encouraging is the spin rates or like above average.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there is like some capacity there.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's mixed in a cutter as well in the high 80s.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there's some get some arsenal depth here.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's actually thrown his secondaries more as a professional than he did at Tennessee where he was like 70% fastballs.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not quite that high any

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and it just seems to be a tack attacking sort of the right zones with a slider staying of off the middle of the plate, which is a bit of an issue early in the season.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I've been a Liam Doyle fan.

[SPEAKER_01]: It seemed like it's been a little bit of a roller coaster, but they've been rolling out new pitches trying different things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I think it's one of those kind of keep the faiths.

[SPEAKER_01]: So still, it's top 50 prospect for us.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's kind of moved back and forth 10 spots throughout the year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but certainly if you look at what he's been doing in the second half the year and over those last two months.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's been phenomenal.

[SPEAKER_01]: She said fastball shape has always been really, really good.

[SPEAKER_01]: He attacks with that pitch.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there's just not a lot of lefties that sit 95, 96 that can touch 99, 100 miles per hour.

[SPEAKER_01]: with really good angles and you know consistently landed.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's one thing that obviously separates Doyle and across the arsenal He's got a bunch of high swimming strike rates and high in zone with rates as well, which you know plays well So I mean the more he's in the zone, I think he's still gonna miss baths.

[SPEAKER_01]: That kind of stuff you bet on it I agree with you in the walks like you know

[SPEAKER_01]: Does it maybe limit like what the upside is that the present sure there could be some rough outings here and there, but I think often that he's going to get a lot of outs and probably be A really successful sort of five and dive pitcher early before, you know, he gets a little bit or a five and which happens for a lot of these guys in the big weeks too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's move on to the next one that we're going to talk about.

[SPEAKER_01]: Jonathan Santucci, I guess we're we're we're discussing new England-based pictures here because guys from Massachusetts, I think I was going to see chums for but I don't I don't think it's chumps for that he grew up and it might be fish bird but somewhere in that area.

[SPEAKER_01]: Santucci, you know, left-hander big stuff, big slider,

[SPEAKER_01]: It was pretty good at Duke.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think everyone wanted to bet on the athlete and that there was some more projection here.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think this year in particular, I think he's kind of turned a corner more and is really being viewed as one of the top pitching prospects in the game.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I know you mentioned before the show that you were a Santucci fan.

[SPEAKER_01]: So talk me through what you like about Santucci.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I like to even when there were to strikes and there still aren't a ton of strikes.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is like you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you could rank in ahead of Doyle.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's is some reliever risk here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had him number 14 on my list, which I think was one of the hotter grades.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would imagine in the industry, based on what I reflected on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I just think it's weird and it's going to work.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think the mess do a good job in the pitching development side, despite the fact I know that is not a popular opinion given how some of their trajectories of Paralta and Tongue have gone this year and and when you're really struggling a AAA and such, but.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's a super high slot pitcher like I got him up.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like a 57 degree arm angle is a lefty which I don't think there's a lot of guys up there.

[SPEAKER_00]: If they are it's like Alex Vesia and some of these other dudes, but Since you choose a little weird or it's not like like he gets on the side of the ball really nice and the key pitchers this slider he's got this weird bullet side or thing that I have it like 8889 he's got it up to like 92 and it's got like pure bullet shape and it's just it's a super steep approach into the zone me throws at a ton

[SPEAKER_00]: This is partially why I think some of his own stuff is suppressed because this thing is just going to naturally fall below his own more, you know, he's a chase reliant pitcher and when he's in the zone he generates miss and when he's in the zone in this contact made it's ground balls so.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is the kind of profile that I think I'm most willing to accept low zone strike rates on, where it's like, he does everything else well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like the zone miss is there, he gets chase out of the zone when the context made it's on the ground.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's hard to lift.

[SPEAKER_00]: So all that stuff works out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is the fastball gonna have some playability issues in the majors?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe, you know, like these higher slot guys that do feel like as they ascend that shape plays down most of the time, um, and I wonder where his ends up, or if they make any more adjustments to like lower slot, there's just not a lot of guys up at this kind of slot, and I feel like most of the ones we see up here eventually fall a little, we've kind of saw us with Jonah Tong this year because they needed breaking ball shapes, but

[SPEAKER_00]: But essentially, side is the weapon.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's a really good lefty side.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's just enough fastball to work.

[SPEAKER_00]: I see him as like a 50-feature value type, like two and a half-ish three-work kind of picture of season.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it's a little scary to bet on low-ish zone here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's some risk that it,

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, he's walking three guys and King seven and he can't get through five, but I guess my bed is more just like the shapes are sick, you know, like I think it's a weird look.

[SPEAKER_00]: I got him up at like a six five release height as a lefty, which line up the arm and our main level saying and I just think the slider sick man like I, it's I'm just going to bed on stuff here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think is where my, my brain came to on him, because it's not like a gorgeous strike.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not like Joey Volchko from the draft or something along those lines.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, no, he's.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's maybe 11% walk rate projection in the majors, but we've seen arms succeed like that, especially with this level of stuff, I think that's worth it from a risk standpoint.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the the point that you made just regarding ground balls, like, and it's every pitch in his arsenal is pretty much 50 to 60 plus percent ground ball rates.

[SPEAKER_01]: That adds a little efficiency that, you know, when you do get contact, you can get potentially multiple outs, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel like guys that walk a lot of bat, like I saw parlance who's on a last week, for

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?

[SPEAKER_00]: Quick.

[SPEAKER_00]: I forgot.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're text me about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's turbo stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if he's ever going to be a starter.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think the Nats have any reason at this point.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not to try to develop him as a starter.

[SPEAKER_01]: They have some runway.

[SPEAKER_01]: They've had a little bit more success in the majors than I think they expected.

[SPEAKER_01]: They have some decent depth.

[SPEAKER_01]: They don't have to keep on pushing him even if they have to add him to the 40 Manoroster.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do think that at certain point maybe they start to compete.

[SPEAKER_01]: He probably ends up in the bullpen, and I mean, he is the kind of stuff that it could be, it could be Mason Miller.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was 100.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a hundred and three mile per hour sinkers.

[SPEAKER_01]: So even when guys do make contact, we don't really elevate on them very well.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like an 88 mile per hour sweeper and there's just tons of horizontal break.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, both the both sides of the plate with the fastball on the sweeper.

[SPEAKER_01]: So

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's huge stuff, but I think the thing with him is

[SPEAKER_01]: He's gotten deep when he was starting and was like not injured a year ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: He would get deeper into starts, even when he would struggle with command from times of time because he would get sinkers in his own that guys would just beat into the ground and would end up being too out.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I do think that helps him a little bit with some of the command issues at where she's probably gonna be a really effective reliever.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I wouldn't close the door and starting.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the thing that's interesting about him too is he's a good athlete, he gets down the mound pretty well.

[SPEAKER_01]: So his angles are not as steep as you would anticipate with someone with that arm angle, so I almost wonder if it allows everything to play up a little bit that said he doesn't miss a lot of bats in the minors against his fastball.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't anticipate that's going to play up in the majors, but

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, it's an interesting arsenal.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's, like I said, a crazy slider that if he gets to a point where he's throwing that 50% of the time, it wouldn't shock me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, all right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's move on to the next one.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll take a quick break.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a name that I know you mentioned.

[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, you hadn't done a lot of work on, um, lower miners guy, uh, was a big international sounding for the Red Sox a few years ago, but, um, Sabdel Del Zai, uh, Del Xenia, you know, you're talking about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: stabbed El Delzinae.

[SPEAKER_01]: They were saying I thought it was Delzinae.

[SPEAKER_01]: They were saying Delzinae on the broadcast last because I was watching it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to trust them that they know how to pronounce it better than I do.

[SPEAKER_01]: So Delzinae, big right hander has had some success.

[SPEAKER_01]: There is.

[SPEAKER_01]: Fairly big stuff in the arsenal, a lot of velocity on the fastball.

[SPEAKER_01]: I got some notes on them, but I'm interesting to your thoughts.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he is a big boy for 18 years old, six foot five.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's listed it, 200 pounds.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'd be shocked if you found under like 225.

[SPEAKER_00]: The lightweight projections have never accurate.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, remember the days of New Hampshire putting Vlad and Bo at the same weight.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is probably what was this year, is this 20?

[SPEAKER_00]: 14.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even remember.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've done my head.

[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, 2017 was a 17 little later on thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they had this.

[SPEAKER_00]: They had those two guys at the same way in the monitors, which is the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life, but yeah, this guy hadn't really looked at like I'm in the I just like as I said, I kind of opened my list and I started doing the graduations just pulling guys off that I could take off the rank.

[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't done the info gathering on like

[SPEAKER_00]: who am I missing like to consider, you know, I have like the pocket, you know, when you build a list you have like 50 guys beyond the 30 you're ranking that you're like maybe I'm going to rank this guy and I'm in the process of gathering now.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is the name I'm going to put in there because I didn't really have too much on him prior.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting, he seems to have this odd ability that some of these guys have, he reminds me a little bit of, this is a weird cop, but even Kleinshmit, who the Marlins took, where he has like this kind of more verticalish slot.

[SPEAKER_00]: but he just seems to have this ability to create like drop on everything else that he's throwing.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's got like to change up with a bunch of depth.

[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't it actually spin the ball well?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think Climeshmit from Oregon Stadium until the Marlin spins ball really well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he's a little bit different in that sense and he's a righty Climeshmit's a lefty, but that's similar idea of like

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it's a little higher slot.

[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't up or like a 50th degree arm angle, which might be a little wacky because when the guy gets really big, my arm angle model gets a little muddied and such, but he's thrown really hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's really efficient on the foreseen and maybe that's why I'm a little surprised that the breakers have depth, you know, they're not crazy hard right now, but I do think there's iterations of this kind of picture where.

[SPEAKER_00]: The breakers don't need to be crazy hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just the Vila once you push in and like this 12 mile per hour is plus Vila differential and you're sitting at like the high 90s on your hard stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think that can work.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's like a okay strikes here too.

[SPEAKER_00]: So at that age to have that strike feel to have a decent force in maybe, sitting 96.

[SPEAKER_00]: you know, there's no spin.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's literally just going to have to be power breakers.

[SPEAKER_00]: He seems to have some feel for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: The red socks, I think, do a great job on the pitching development side.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm intrigued, like it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's something about him that my stuff model doesn't love, but I'm still learning about my own stuff model in which it likes and doesn't.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's more of like the guide, you know, it's like,

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's there and I'm not entirely sure if I like it a lot of the time, but every now and then I'm like, okay, like that's telling me something I didn't think with the old all models are bad, some are useful like my mouse pretty bad, but I think occasionally it's useful and that's all that matters to me is like, okay, I understand certain elements that it's telling me and one thing it's telling me is that like he, I think he has weapons to work for his lefties.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're thinking about the long term picture of him, I'm not you worried about it being like,

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, he can get right.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's out, but there's no way from the left.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's out.

[SPEAKER_00]: He seems to have some feel for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I imagine the Red Sox will be able to back him into a righty approach that'll work as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, he feels like he's in that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I struggle a little with these guys who are young.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure how you approach proximity.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've definitely gone to like the, not to name a competitor here, but the Eric Longenian School of Thought of like proximity matters.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so this dude was class A's to single A.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I just generally discount these guys until I see him at high A. I think that the hitting level at class A's so bad that like it's hard for me to believe oftentimes a lot of.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like he's got, I got him out like 60, 5% out of 70% out of zone and zone miss or miss and it's like, yeah, that's good, you know, I just want to, can I just see that at high A versus better hitters and double A before I buy in.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I just tend to discount these guys where I'm like, you got to be blown away.

[SPEAKER_00]: I got to be like, set for NANDA's biome to be like, yeah, totally, let's go.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not there with him, but he's definitely named him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to have the back half of my radar here.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's probably in that like,

[SPEAKER_00]: 50 to 70 or 80 overall pitching prospects specifically rank that I generally try to try to parse through But red sucks because yeah, man, they have pop-up arms like this it feels like every year I still have my guy Dalton Rogers, or is he or does he up to mr. Sliders at the top of the zone the no one no one ever cares about But I think this strategy is gonna work.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's getting crushed anyways as I see that anyway anyway All right, besides the point

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, damn it, roll back a few at the end though.

[SPEAKER_01]: I remember seeing Donald Brown in the cave.

[SPEAKER_01]: I agree with a lot of what you said there.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that it's a lot of sort of velocity.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's some decent arm side on it, but there's not easy to cape.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's not crazy angles.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a guy that's getting huge extension, like it's power and strikes, and he's going to be able to blow up by low-a hitters.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even though he's 18 and probably younger than a lot of these guys,

[SPEAKER_01]: There's not a lot of those guys that are hitting like 96 and 97 consistently at the top of the zone.

[SPEAKER_01]: Hide adjusted VA's below average.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's reverse splits though and I think it was interesting to mention that like much better numbers in terms of production against lefties walks lefties a little bit more than he does against righties.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think some of that is the fact that the change up isn't consistently in the zone when it is it could be a good swing and miss pitch so you know like kind of like your your your.

[SPEAKER_01]: classic pronator kind of profile doesn't spin as breakers all that well has it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had three different shapes bigger bigger sweeper like a shorter slider and like a two plane break and ball But there were some power on all of them the thing I thought I noted that I thought was most interesting about him And this is stuff that With in stuff models, et cetera, like we can't always pick up and sometimes as you dig deeper as to why guys have success It's stuff like this.

[SPEAKER_01]: He hides the ball really well

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, because he gets really deep over his back leg almost like plunges a little bit and kind of hides the ball behind his back hip pretty well.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's like an accentuated kind of layback and pause.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's kind of interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe that's that's messing with some low-way haters as well and doesn't necessarily translate as he gets up.

[SPEAKER_01]: But

[SPEAKER_01]: something that I kind of had noted.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's take a quick break here, Lance, and then when we come back, we have three more pitchers to talk, and we'll be out of here.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, and we're back here with Lance Brostowski, talking, pitching prospects, we've talked about Liam Doyle, Jonathan San Tucci, and I'm gonna try to do it again.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sab Diaz, Yelzina, I think I got it, it's time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's move on to an easier name to say,

[SPEAKER_01]: a guy like myself, Jamie Arnold.

[SPEAKER_01]: little bit easier when you're a Yankee, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Jamie Arnold, first round draft pick out of Florida State, highly touted college pitcher, same draft class as Liam Doyle and Kate Anderson that we talked about earlier.

[SPEAKER_01]: Also, also a lefty.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we've only had one righty that we've discussed.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see if we get into some more, a couple more, for the end of the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe

[SPEAKER_01]: Talk to me about Jamie Arnold, because I have found this to be one of the harder evaluations, not just for myself, but even for us just as a team, because we get a wide range of opinions on Arnold.

[SPEAKER_01]: We did pre-draft, and I feel like we're still going to improve all.

[SPEAKER_00]: I struggle with him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I had him 33 on my list and it's that would be like the back half of my like 50 future value tier, which is again that like two and a halfish war picture a year, which means I'm not totally confident he has that I think I might downgrade him slightly like I know the results have been good.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just it's a tough profile man like.

[SPEAKER_00]: he just throws a bunch of sweeper and like it's big extension is a small dude the release heights really low.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I was looking at Matt Wilkins in the other day, very different pictures, but actually very similar release traits and similar, this is hilarious, not the same body type, but very similar body types from like a, if you look at the release traits, you're like these guys are the same and then you look at them and you're like, oh no, they're not the same.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're very different, very different humans from a

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what's the word here's standpoint, but try to stay PC to show he's dead.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, Arnold was a small dude, 49 released, seven extension, he's up there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I struggle a little, which is like, he's not generating as much miss, as I thought he would in Zone, or just roughly, and I worry a little bit about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Despite the fact, it seems like he's had pretty good bad at ball results.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he does have a reasonable track or kind of like having a success with this very weird profile.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't think he could do much with the ball from manipulation standpoint, you know, the spins are all average.

[SPEAKER_00]: He does have the ability to like throw stuff hard like the sweeper is hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like 85 to 86 on average is up to 90 It's not that big of a sweeper.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's gets back to the point.

[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't spin the ball that well And that shape looks good like that is his primary pitch like his zone right on that is roughly the same as his forcing or you know Like he's a pitch backwards guy to some extent where he's gonna probably throw his sweep early and then try to forcing you late And it's it's a relatively flat V a because of the fore none release.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like crazy flat

[SPEAKER_00]: because it's more like kind of too plain.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's just a weird arm man.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is like, it's one where I don't really believe stuff monocos.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no one else throwing this.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like, what is it comping to?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've run into a little with stuff models.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like they're reflect like they're getting too good to the point where it's just like becoming, I don't know how to put this.

[SPEAKER_00]: But

[SPEAKER_00]: If you have a guy who has not, who has weird stuff, the sample of pictures who also have weird stuff, don't line up.

[SPEAKER_00]: So at the end of the day, the stuff models was looking at the guy and being like, oh, I think this is Jani Ardall, because like no one else is throwing from this release height, you know, in this shape, so like your sample to go off a small.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's hard to get like validation on a picture who's weird.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is like, it's a pure vibes one.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, if you like this profile, sure, like I could see being a top 20 pitching prospect for you, where you're just like, no one else does this.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's valuable.

[SPEAKER_00]: My problem is just like, I wish there was more miss.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if I saw more miss and my stuff model said it was awful, like, I'd be like, I think I'm going to throw away the stuff model, but I'm kind of yipped out on the chance that like, like, what are you projecting on a striker rate with him in the majors right now?

[SPEAKER_00]: is in 1918 percent with a 9% walker like that's not a starter, you know, and is it is enough to be a reliever?

[SPEAKER_00]: He's like 1993.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I struggle, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think I would probably downgrain them a little.

[SPEAKER_00]: I might put him in like the 45 plus tier, which is like, I think it'd be a 50.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just need to see more.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think for me, the scene more would be, can you just miss more bats for me?

[SPEAKER_00]: I struggle man.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's a really tough evil.

[SPEAKER_00]: I might be one of the harder emails.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think on pitching prospect lists for a guy that isn't way off to the point where the range of bathrooms is massive, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think you're right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's questions like, how would this work in relief?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like, I think it possibly could.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I do think like the two fastball shapes is interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, they don't differentiate much though, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, there's, there's about, you got more than I do.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's about five inches of, like, just clean, like, just like, that's why I have to vert off of the two.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, high adjusted VA, um, it's like,

[SPEAKER_01]: Like...

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like maybe two delineations above average, while like the two seems like one, like it's still a pretty flat.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: You seem fastball, but he's got like a, he's got a 62.6% ground ball rate on that.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like three or four more inches on arm side.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there is, there is some differentiating between the two, but you'd like to see a little more power on that force, even like another mile for the whole.

[SPEAKER_01]: You would make a big difference just in terms of like,

[SPEAKER_01]: How much better the outlook?

[SPEAKER_01]: How much more sure you would be of the outcomes?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like the percentile chance that he actually reaches that as a number three or as like a closer or something.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like regardless of where it goes.

[SPEAKER_01]: I also, there's been a lot of turnover over the last few years.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I remember correctly, I don't cover the ace, but that's my recollection that they've had a few kind of smart people come in and then leave kind of quickly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how much consistency with messaging I always wonder about that with certain players like we hear it about it in other sports like for the quarterbacks right like this guys have like four offensive coordinators and four or five years and then you kind of see the same thing with some of these pitching directors and coordinators and it's like are they taking a piece of away from all those guys and kind of you know moving forward or or is it like contrasting messages and I just you I wonder about that a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll jump into it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I will say Arnold's drive line guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of wonder whether like I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a weird thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had no idea.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know I worked drive line, but like sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just wonder whether he like doesn't really listen to me with the Flex or telling him he's just like I don't even know a little bit of your guys I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just gonna be my animal.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't actually know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not reporting anything like

[SPEAKER_01]: He played for like the most progressive team here on the case.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so like I think he generally is like He's aware of like you know information data utilizing that obviously if he's trained with drive lines too

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean, that's that's kind of refreshing to hear, but yeah, there's certain limitations here in terms of spin and power that, um, you know, despite like getting down the mound really well for a guy his size and kind of creating really weird angles on this fastball and just all those pitches.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's not missing as many bats as you would hope.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, him versus, or why did he have him versus him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we do.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some of that is like it's a bad way to put it, but the half life of like draft rankings that it takes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, because I know it will be written to this too.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard pipeline.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I feel like I feel like you have to be really bad.

[SPEAKER_01]: for us to just like thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, if you track it throughout a year, it's more like progressive move downs.

[SPEAKER_01]: And how these next couple of months go, and then the feedback that we get early on in the process, of like the off-season list, we'll probably dictate where he is in the top 100.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, yeah, you can't validate the draft right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you know what you're saying.

[SPEAKER_00]: I he that's it's not about me because they're like, it's kind of pick your guy where like Arnold's a little more zone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's not missing backs since he's a little less so maybe more relief risk.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like I'm pretty confident that dude's going to have like a 26% trigger in the majors.

[SPEAKER_00]: Finally, in a sense, you should put it clearly, and I feel like I'm waiting for lists like BA and pipeline and others to update that prior on our normal one, and I'm wondering if it just happens next year, if a sense you should come out and it's like, oh, you actually might get a rotation spot or we'll try him, I'm like a short roll or something.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's to my lean, like those guys, although they're very different, like completely, let's not completely highlight slot.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're similar in template of picture, I think, such that you can compare them, one to one, and kind of be like, like, get a good read on how you evaluate a picture by asking someone's opinion on Arnold and Santucci and saying, who would you rank over one or the other?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's like, I think I like those guys, you could, you could like line up on one B1s pretty easily and get a read on like analysis,

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's, uh, I think that's where the accuracy, especially with like two different types of lefties that are like both like very slider heavy, of course, but different high sliders how they get there is a little bit different.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and both guess both ACC guys as well, right, so here you go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's move on to the next one, Lance.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know we've had some conversations about this guy over the years.

[SPEAKER_01]: Has been a teenage pitching phenom for the Royals.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's Kendri Churio.

[SPEAKER_01]: The numbers have been really good.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's really performed.

[SPEAKER_01]: He throws hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have it's super fast ball heavy.

[SPEAKER_01]: He might actually be more fast ball heavy than Liam Doyle is.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've got one more heavy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not great angles.

[SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't really miss a lot of bats.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, keep the fastball misses a reasonable amount of bats and gets way more chased than you would expect.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's the most shocking thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: But not like it's not crazy, miss.

[SPEAKER_01]: And his secondaries are kind of below average.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm less into this profile than others are.

[SPEAKER_01]: I understand the age to level and performance and kind of all that stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think we kind of agree on this one.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a little less,

[SPEAKER_01]: optimistic about him being any more than like a number four and number five and command might get him there as a number four and number five command and power.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I've been wrong about guys like this before too.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's the one that I'm most worried I'm wrong about I think you know like I'm in it with you on this concept of like I just I generally don't love this profile but I was looking at on the mb side Brandon fought.

[SPEAKER_00]: who really struggled last year had good peripherals, came back up this year, you know, was terrible.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then got sent back down.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now he's like rolling all of a sudden.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I, like every time I look at Brandon fought, I'm like, is there some level of zone that a picture can get to on their fastball that like invalidates everything else what we think we can critique about the guy?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like Brandon fought, though, it was like in this area of like 65 to 70% zone and it's forced back, could be slightly wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: this season at least.

[SPEAKER_00]: Churio, I have it like 66% zone.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's forcing fastball.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have it like 98% out of them on four seamers.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have a strike rate overall.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like such zone.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am in zone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here is pitch in zone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good luck.

[SPEAKER_00]: And hitters are just like, ah, ah, ah,

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm used to seeing dudes at Abel walk 15% of the guys I'm sitting like this is insane.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm already down over two, one two, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: And that is, maybe there's some value in that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't think Faut's stuff is good, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like he was dominating for the last eight starts, nine starts, he's had because he was just like, I don't really care if I don't miss Bathic.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just in his own.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm betting that the haters are bad and nothing to make adjustments.

[SPEAKER_00]: In the reality is like, hey, there's a lot of teams who can't hit baseball.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like he just puts stuff in his own, like, maybe this works.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very aware of that case that exists on Turea.

[SPEAKER_00]: And despite that, I actually haven't ranked one spot above Jamie Arnold.

[SPEAKER_00]: I definitely think I have lower than probably the industry, given how much I think most other sites are kind of really risen on him.

[SPEAKER_00]: but it's just tough, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think my hot take on him, I think that I wrote earlier this year is that I think there's a chance that everything he's throwing now is like not actually what he's throwing when he gets up.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had this weird theory that he's like a slider guy, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Where he's like, he's like right now I have a 64% foreseen and 22% curve.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a non-zero chance in two years.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's 64% sinker and 30% sweeper, or he just goes to massive mix.

[SPEAKER_00]: He can actually get on the side of the ball and spin it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a weird profile where like, he has results, he's in the zone of time, but I don't think this is gonna look like what's gonna look like in the majors.

[SPEAKER_00]: So how do I, that's where it's hard to eval him.

[SPEAKER_00]: The release traits are terrible.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's an English play down.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's a miss any bats in the zone, despite the fact he's in the zone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I just struggle, man, he's a really weird picture.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's completely unprecedented from like a strike standpoint.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I was looking back and I think I had it in a prior sub-stack piece where like the only picture to hold this hive like a strike rate in zone rate since like 2016 or whatever since we have minor league data is like Yuri Perez way back.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like him and Yuri, sub age 19 or 20, you know, so there's some maybe that is like enough to care about him, but I struggle, I just struggle and I don't know like I'm very aware of both cases and I'm just Switzerland and playing the difference in going like.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, you can have him in the 55 tier.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to rank him top 10, I actually think there's a case where you're just like, listen, I don't care.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just think he's going to pound zone and he will walk 4% of the Battersea faces and even if it's a 20% strike or 18% strike or that's still above average K walk and like deck of work.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm totally fair with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also fair if you're like, this is a terrible picture and he will never make it because this stuff's awful.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'd be like totally fine, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: I get you like he's one of the few that I see the full range of outcomes here and I don't know where I land, but I land in the middle.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm not, you know, I think it's a big figure.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just think it's more of like a back end starter that

[SPEAKER_01]: Lights up the radar gun.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do agree.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's ultimately going to end up a sinker guy long term.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think you just look at the traits and everything just adventure.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's not to say they'll scrap the four scheme all together, but it would just become a bigger part of the arsenal.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because he hasn't you haven't thrown like no short breaker right like I have zero short breakers.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just the big curve.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just want to see what the color shape looks like, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it would be an interesting pitch for him to add for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so there we go.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's our Kendri Curio take promise to be 40, 45 minutes.

[SPEAKER_01]: One more name, one more left hand before we get out of here.

[SPEAKER_01]: This has been one of the bigger pop up names, breakout names, among pitching prospects and the miners this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Got some good reporting from my colleague Ian Kondo when he was down in spring training.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, Kaden Hunter,

[SPEAKER_01]: from the orials.

[SPEAKER_01]: Seems like another orials pitching find.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this might be the best to date in terms of a guy that was kind of off the radar of like top two round type of pick.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not going to count Joseph Jerswah within that, who obviously has been phenomenal this season, one of the better pitching prospects, performance wise and the miners.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love Caden Hunter, up in AA, performing now, it's a huge fast ball, but he's got three different secondarys, he'll throw fairly consistently in the slider, change up, and kind of more of a downer curve ball, but got some power to 823.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mrs.

[SPEAKER_01]: Bats with all those pitches gets above average chase rates and all those pitches and I'd say,

[SPEAKER_01]: It's about average command, and the outcomes actually against all of his pitches are really good as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what do your thoughts on Kate Hunter?

[SPEAKER_01]: I honestly think I like them more than a lot of guys that we've already talked about that are ranked higher than a monoliths.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I, I, I find the oil system kind of weird.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had four pictures of there's ranked from like 30 to 50 on my list 35 to 50.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had daily own in there who's always been a level nine, but it seems like the push them to reliever for a bit now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Baton and was one that I had a couple of people be like the students really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was really struggling with him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just wrote him up recently and I'm definitely going to move them up.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's also just too good.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if I'm just missing angles there and trade gifts and was always a love of mine, but I just think he's bad.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, unfortunately, but they have his weird theme of like.

[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of their dudes just don't have great forcing shapes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if this is like a thing, but if you look at like macro zoomed out Orioles data and the miners, they have like some of the highest release heights.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I wonder whether there's something going on there where they're model.

[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of the time people tell me like when I ID these things that I text them or from the Oregon about it,

[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, well, we're not really like valuing it, but it's like clearly residual from their models in terms of how they're valuing pictures holistically.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's really what it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the byproduct of what the model spits out on my guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like for some reason, however they build it, however there are on DT works.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, hey, we actually think these heights like guys are really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like the cubs in the cut fastball.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, hey, maybe from a dollar per war, standpoint, this is actually the most efficient way to approach pitching right now, who's a view as a surprise to one of this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's internally what they think, I don't know, but like how is do you arrive at having just everyone cut their fastball in that order?

[SPEAKER_00]: Similar with the Oreos where it's like, a lot of these dudes have forcing fastballs to work and then they get up to the majors or close to the majors.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think of like a Chase McDermott or Trac Gibson's a great example where that pitch just completely fell off when he touched the majorly ball and I have no idea why and no one knows why because now it's just like not a pitch that is mixed anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make any sense to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: He looked like one of the best

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he's top 50 maybe breaks a bazillion bats, but I'm not sure that matters if you can't miss any of the bats that he's breaking and I think the reason I'm bringing all that up is he's Hunter seems like a bit of a deviation from that where the force seems good I really like it it's it's a similar template to like Liam Doyle from a pitcher standpoint, you know, it's a little higher slot.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a good fastball, the breakers aren't crazy spin, but he holds enough heat on him, doils better spin.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's got strikes as you're saying.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's zone miss, there's good contact quality.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think this is a good clear pop-up name that should probably be top 100 on everyone's list, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Where it's like, it may just take time for people to like, reallocate the names and be like,

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you comfortable pulling some dude who's not good anymore or like just was paid five million and now two years later is not good and putting a hidden hunter on like sometimes that reconciliation's tough And I get that from a list making standpoint, but he looks great like I think I think I would have usually have Joe a higher him that's a great question see I like I actually think like I like your why I think there are interesting

[SPEAKER_01]: angles.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: In terms of like how he sets up so closed all the way on the first base side.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's just some weird stuff to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, there's obviously like some tonaling effects between like the fastball and the change up.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a huge separation in terms of like plain and approach angle on those two pitches.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think like that's what's really playing up, but

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, he doesn't have anything that moves glove side, really.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's consistent and there isn't like a power breaker here or anything like I think what what happens and I think what happens because of and I love all different types of prospect coverage, this is not a critique, but.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think what does happen is because of all the charts and numbers and tweets and videos and everything else we get so caught up in like who's the best in the miners as opposed to like who projects to be the best majorly player when they're 25.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like I feel like Hunter does like all the A names that we talked about today.

[SPEAKER_01]: The only name I'd have above Hunter is Liam Doyle and I think closer to Doyle that he is to the other four guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I might take St. Tucci, but it's a good point because like I do think that's one thing that I think's really hard on prospect list is like

[SPEAKER_00]: How much am I believe like I think my cadence in my head is like further away from majors way more stuff based as you get to double a triple a now you're showing me good like results to my poor stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have to I have to come back on my dial a little you know if you're going to get some to triple a and he's still punching all these dudes like any still holds like a 24% K walk.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think the bet there's correct, like we saw this a couple years ago like a savage and totally and tongue, like if I'm hitting, if I'm two for three on those outcomes, we're all those guys crush AAA and now two of them are good and tongue's kind of lost.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think that's a fair bet to make like you're telling me two and every three of those dudes who have like absurd K walks at the high minors, just, and you know, like, you savages stuff was weird, totally stuff was always good, but it was developing, tongue stuff was always fine

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I guess I'm saying, like, I grew, be like, I think you get to AAA and you could put up results.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I have to, I have to correct a little bit, you know, there's something that hitters are telling me that is not caught in my stuff model and I have to be aware of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think you're right on Hunter.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that is the template of picture that you look at and go, like, the stuff lines up and the results look really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like, why would I not be on him in the top 25 of a picture rank, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, like there's power.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's a really good mover.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's plenty of strikes.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of chase on pitches outside this time.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, and it's and it's not his last start was a little funky.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've watched probably like the last five or six and I'm always kind of with these guys that I'm tracking throughout the year, you know, I have synergy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm diving into synergy stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: The last start was weird.

[SPEAKER_01]: He struggled a little bit against, um, not a particularly strong, uh, Richmond lineup, which is the Giants AA affiliate.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he only struck out to, he had two swinging strikes and two strike counts, but he got into a ton of two strike counts.

[SPEAKER_01]: that he had 14 fouls against him in his accounts.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that hadn't been what I had seen previously.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm starting to, I talked with Scott that was there that kind of called to like, I think he might be a little gas like, he's, you know, blew past his sort of like, innings, max, and previous seasons.

[SPEAKER_01]: And all that sort of thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, there could be some like, or it could just have been a bad start or like, it just, the slider wasn't as sharp, you know, the curve ball, the change up, just wasn't working like it typically does.

[SPEAKER_01]: The fastball did like he set himself up into a lot of two strike counts, but once he got there he couldn't blow up by a guy so that was the first time that I've seen kind of a wrinkle because otherwise it's been strikes it's been swinging miss has been swinging miss in his own he's gotten swing and miss against the fastball against you know secondary shapes that move you know down glove side arm side and he gets pretty good extension as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like six seven six eight extension so you know there's a lot to like here.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so I think ultimately that's why I kind of lean with a picture like this that has all these traits versus other guys who maybe have more pedigree, more hype, maybe a few more years worth of performance, you know, with with pitching when it comes together, it kind of can move pretty quick.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I don't know what it was that clicked, but hunters been in like an absolute steal for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: So.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good, what's your read on the OS system?

[SPEAKER_00]: Where'd you rank them from a development standpoint?

[SPEAKER_00]: She just off the cuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: Did she spend the night?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the pitching side of things has been better than people realize.

[SPEAKER_00]: I agree, but I don't know how high they don't have a name.

[SPEAKER_00]: They've developed, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's no one that I'm like, great.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've finally did it with this guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, if they can do with others, do you want to count Braddish is like, it's not really like he was already there.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that they certainly have made like Rogers and some other guys, like Brandon, I'm just like kind of okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like he was eating right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's like serviceable.

[SPEAKER_01]: They got some serviceable years at a Dean Kramer.

[SPEAKER_01]: They've just, yeah, they've ever shop at the top of the market with pictures in terms of like free agents they gone after, guys in the draft, like a different acquisition windows.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're not ever shopping at the top of like the talent pool in terms of least perceived talent with pictures.

[SPEAKER_01]: But they've done a good job, I think, of accumulating a lot of interesting guys with a lot of names.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like a fatal flaw, you know, it's like jersewaz kind of like the perfect shining example of this were like, we don't know, but the breaking ball, but there's like, for the other elements with this that are really, really good and maybe this works or maybe it doesn't.

[SPEAKER_01]: This system has a lot more pitching than I think people realize this might be the best test of their pitching development yet because they sort of have the horses at this point that they didn't before just with names are even acquired and you know some of these draft picks and how they've looked so huge like two to three window for them massive they have to get through these guys in the rotation to make them cost controlled and be good otherwise it's like I just I got to do by them you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, because it seemed like it was like all in two years ago and the last two years have just been really tough rubber major league club and you have to wonder if they're going to bounce back or if this window's closing and all of a sudden all these, you know, bright young stars end up being bright young stars other places.

[SPEAKER_01]: Once they come to free agency, which is now crazy enough only a couple years away.

[SPEAKER_01]: But Lance, let's wrap this up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tell the people where they can find you plug your work and let me go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure, sub-stacks made one I've been pushing people to also a YouTube channel that is like maybe once a week or so I tossed up something more kind of long for me and fun and yeah on the socials too so pretty much anywhere it's all under Lance BROZs usually where you can find me so yeah well thank you again for joining me it's been great to hop on the air catch up yeah catch up a little bit and talk about some interesting pitching prospects hopefully everybody out there got something out of this.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is Jeff Ponce for Baseball America.

[SPEAKER_01]: This has been the Baseball America Fainacey podcast.