I remember jumping out of the,

the door of the truck, coming out,

and this person come up to me.

He's like, "My kids, my kids are in the

house." And he's literally on his back

holding onto the axle with his hands

like that, and he's, he's foreign.

And I was like, "Mate, let go of it.

We need to get you out." And I, I

just remember giving him the standby

go, and I just fucking went for it.

Eyes closed, fucking limbs everywhere.

As the car's rolling, I got flung

out to the driver's side window,

and my mate Howie, he somehow got

pushed back into the back seat.

I'm a really caring person.

If someone's really

struggling, I'm fucking there

Guys, welcome back to another

edition of the Combat Fuel podcast.

Today is a little bit different.

We've actually got the guy behind the

scenes who is also a veteran, he's been

a paramedic, a firefighter, and now

obviously his biggest accolade, the Combat

Fuel podcast producer, Mr. Fraser Carson.

Thank you very much for joining us.

Thank you for your service.

Tell us a little bit about you.

Thanks, mate.

Yeah.

Before we start, do you wanna

explain your mate with you?

I've got a bad eye 'cause I'm

stressed working with this bald prick.

Was it the stress or is

it you just got banged up?

I've got a stye in my eye.

Yeah.

He's, So Fraser is bald- Here we go

and about four foot tall.

So this is more like we could call it…

This is very much our E and D quota

being met- … by having, Thank you,

Mr. E&D Quoter You don't need that.

You're Polish, so it all hits.

I was said not Polish.

Although the

Polish have a very good…

Let's not get into that.

Work ethic.

Let's not get into that.

Good morning.

So Fraser, tell us a little bit about you.

Yeah.

Obviously producing the podcast with Bez.

And in my spare time, serving as a

firefighter dad of one, partner to

Chloe and just busy as anything.

Yeah.

Man is busy.

Where did life begin for you though?

Where did you grow up?

Yeah.

So, so around Bromley, London, around that

area there's a place called Mottingham.

It's a bit of a… So Southeast London.

I grew up, really started

there with just me and my mum.

The guy my mum was with, he sort of walked

out on her a- when I was one, and it was

just me and my mum till I was about four.

And yeah, got a really cool story

of, so Mum introduced me to this guy.

We went to a park at four, it

was quite a fond memory, and

basically got to know him.

And what I didn't realize, is

Mum was dating this guy, and

she just wanted to see how I was

with him, and he was brilliant.

The, the guy was really, really amazing.

And I, what sold the deal for her was

I held his hand, and from that moment,

yeah, he's, he become my dad, and

they've been together for 29 years.

You didn't say though dad

or father, you just said the

guy that she was with before.

So your, your real- Yeah … father's

not, he's no dad, nothing.

No, he's not a dad to me.

And I'll explain.

Basically, he walked out on my

mum when I was one- Wow … and

he, he basically, he just didn't

bother having any contact with me.

And being with, a dad myself, you feel

like you wanna be there for your kids.

Yeah.

And he just wasn't, he wasn't

there at all during it.

And I did try and get in contact

with him when I was in my 20s, and

had a little bit of contact, but

nothing, nothing re- really special.

And then obviously something happened

when I was 30, but we'll go back

into that when we come to it.

Yeah.

So from life from the age of, of one,

you're not really… I imagine you don't

really remember anything from back then.

Your real dad had walked away-

Yeah … left your mum, left you.

This other guy's come in, what's his name?

Zoran.

That's a cool name.

Yeah, so- That's a cool name.

It… So his parents, they'd watch a

movie, and they seen Zoran pop up in the

cinema and they were like- Yeah … "Yeah,

that's a cool name." No other reason why.

Yeah.

And yeah, so-

Yeah … completely different.

That's cool.

And I've met this guy you, you call Dad,

and to be fair, he, he is a dad, yeah.

Father is something that you, you are.

A dad is a title that I think you,

you have to earn- 100% … isn't it?

Yeah.

Seeing you with your daughters, like,

how, how could you walk away from,

from a child that you've, you've made?

E- even if you don't want to be

with the other parent just to

leave your kid, I think it says

a lot about someone as a person.

Yeah.

Where they can… I mean,

I don't want kids at all.

But if it ever happened you couldn't turn

your back on, on your own flesh and blood.

No.

Surely.

100%. Yeah.

As a… Yeah.

I think it makes a- Still,

yeah … a special kind of bad

person to, to be able to do that.

Growing up in Mottingham, that sounds

like- It doesn't sound like London.

It's a, it's a, it was a council,

council place, so… And obviously

back in the day, if you had a council

house, you, you're doing well in life.

Yeah.

And yeah, it's… It was one

of those neighborhoods where

everyone knew everyone, but you

all looked after each other.

If you needed sugar, you'd knock on

someone's door, you grab the sugar.

Yeah.

And then, there would be kids all over

the streets, just… It was a good

little neighborhood and obviously, yeah.

Yeah, it was good.

How was your upbringing?

Yeah, interesting.

I got… Yeah, school, I

was bullied pretty badly.

I- I'm not fucking the most prettiest

fucking person, but when I was a kid,

I had ears- I think you're beautiful.

Yeah, thanks, mate.

I had ears… My ears were sticking

out, so obviously, I used to get

called Dumbo, big ears, all that shit.

And yeah, I used to get battered for it.

Kids used to pin me down to the floor,

pull my ears, and beat the shit into me.

Fucking hell.

And it's it's easy to sit here and

laugh about things like that, isn't it?

And be like, "Well, it…" And when you

hear the story you'd be lying if you

didn't say these things are funny now.

But obviously y- you think there's

gotta be a line at some point.

Yeah.

Do you think that line was,

like, pushed too far when you

were, you were growing up?

Yeah, it, it, yeah, it broke me,

'cause I, I, I used to become…

My par- My… The only person that

noticed something was wrong with me

at the time was my great nan, and

she said, "There's something wrong

with this kid, because he's just too

quiet." And I was, I was just like,

I didn't wanna open up to my parents.

Because of it, I used to

keep it all to myself.

I used to… Yeah, it was quite

a bit of a battle sometimes.

Absolutely, man.

However the, the flip side to it is I

think kids that… i'm not condoning

anything to do with bullying or

anything like- Yeah, yeah … physical

violence towards you, but the guys

that have endured hardship, and girls,

are normally the ones that achieve

the most- Yeah … later on in life.

Yeah.

If you've had a bubble-wrapped upbringing,

which, in an ideal world, that would

be lovely it's all peace and rainbows

and stuff, would be great, but it's

not the real world unfortunately.

And if you look at what you've

achieved since, do you think going

through that hardship has helped you?

So if at any point where you're like,

"Life's a bit shit," you can look back

and re- "Actually, that was shit, getting

pinned down and my ears pulled- Yeah

… and bullied to the point of…" And some

people w- would be bullied to the point

that they don't wanna remain here in this

life, that there's a hard line, but it's

obviously that wasn't the case for you.

You've managed to do

pretty well for yourself.

Yeah, yeah.

I think it's, it's definitely opened,

I, I, I am a very caring person, so if

someone's in distress or need, and it, it,

it shows in what I get up to in my life.

I'm a really caring person.

If someone's really

struggling, I'm fucking there.

You, you ask for help from

me, I'm, I'm there for you.

I think because of my past and what

I've been through, I think that's why.

Nice.

Nice.

It makes, it makes good people when you

can endure it and come out the other side.

Yeah, 100%.

I think that's where, where

we met, wasn't it, as well?

Yeah.

I, I owned a gym in Andover.

And this, what I thought

was a young boy messaged.

I mean, he is literally four foot.

He's so small, it's ridiculous.

He messaged saying, "Oh, oh, look,

I'm a veteran. I wanna come to the gym

and stuff." I was at a meeting- Mm-hmm

uh, down the road.

And I was like, "Right, fuck, gotta

go. Sorry, meeting. Veteran needs

me." Didn't actually know he needed

me, but he said he wants to come.

And it wasn't a let's get up there 'cause

someone's there, let's make some money.

It was a, it was a veteran

that said he wants to come.

If someone says they're a veteran,

they want to come, we're quite

known in the area as being

like a little hub, weren't we?

Yeah.

It was a wicked, wicked little place.

Straight up there.

Come and introduce myself.

This is the gym.

That's that.

He's like, "What's the cost?" I'm like,

"I don't know, like just train something-

… and like we'll figure this out later."

But you know, have a good session.

And then, and that was

2019 I think, wasn't it?

Pretty much, mate.

Yeah.

2019. Yeah, it's crazy.

Yeah.

Wild.

It's… Yeah, hell of a gym.

Like- I know … nice little community.

Yeah, and I… It was one of

those I looked forward to, like

doing a night shift and then

coming straight into the gym.

And the lad's like, "Have you just

finished a shift?" I was like,

"Yeah, I'm knackered, but- Yeah

I wanted to be there." Like it was good.

Always good banter as well, wasn't there?

Yeah, it was brilliant.

Always good banter.

Yeah.

Which again, like that line of like

bullying and banter is always finely

trodden by those that are in the military.

But I think we all do well,

like especially as veterans

and like in our little-

environment is people know when, and

they know where the line is, right?

Yeah.

So- But J- James Elliott said

it really well on his episode.

It's, it's the intent.

It's the intent behind it.

Yeah.

If you're giving it, being

malicious behind it all, then

that, yeah, that's bullying.

Yeah.

But if you're just doing it as a friendly

way and, you know you're stepping the line

when you say and you stop it, then- Yeah

it's not bullying, is it?

And if people, y- i- if we're

there ripping you for your height,

which is hilarious- … you

know we, we would just stop.

It's I'm gonna get abused now,

aren't I, in the comments?

E- episode 21 and we're still going.

Yeah.

Not, we've not been canceled just yet.

Yeah.

There's a little bit to touch

on where your dad took you

away on a fishing trip, Yeah

and about your brother,

but you nearly drowned.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It gave him a bit of a fucking shock.

Oh, I realized, I found out I was a

pretty shit swimmer and so it was a

trip with my uncle, dad, and then, but

my uncle's doing a little school trip

and obviously he invited my dad and me.

And we was in the stream, and the lads

were fishing and jumping in the river,

and there's a current stream it would

drop down and it would suck you out.

I didn't realize.

I slipped, I held on.

I was, like, trying to tell this kid

to grab me, and the kid just froze.

Obviously, I slipped, went down, and

then I just panicked and, yeah, drowned.

Next thing, some guy's

jumping in, grabbing me.

I was just like, "Mega." Oh.

I was fucked.

But you didn't die 'cause you- Well, yeah.

Not yet.

'Cause you're streamlined.

Yeah.

I d- I had hair then.

Had hair then.

No, you didn't.

You were born bald.

Yeah.

Like an orc.

Fucking hell.

You weren't born, you were dug up.

Yeah.

I'm sorry, Rays.

This has turned into a LaView's

Fraser podcast, hasn't it?

Cheers, Alex.

But your life as well as well as

nearly drowning, you also got your

face smashed in pretty bad- Yeah

on a bicycle.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was fucking my standard… You'll,

you'll see a trait with me with accidents.

Mm. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Went down the hill on a pushbike, thought

I could catch up Mum and Dad as they were

going to pick up my sister from school.

Caught up with them, went past them,

gave them the ro- roadrunner, meep

meep past, and as I went past, this

little girl- Come out on a scooter out

of nowhere, went over the back of a

wheel, and went over the handlebars,

and that was the last thing I remember.

Next thing, I woke up on the floor, and

half my face was just gravel rushed bad.

Nice.

Yeah, man.

Character building.

Yeah, yeah.

When, when you realize that,

you know- … as ki- kids need

to fall over, they need to hurt

themselves, obviously to an extent.

That might be a bit far, but, ki-

kids have to experience some level of

physicality, like, growing up to realize

that they're actually not made of glass.

Yeah.

And, it's okay to get a little

bit hurt here and there.

It's a good way of

testing my mom's patience.

Absolutely.

I had one as well.

One of my friends had a little tractor.

My friend James was on it, and

he was, like… you got your

little pedals on it, and he- Yeah.

… "Oh, I'll go down the hill on that."

The hill we lived on was like that.

Yeah.

He starts coming down that.

I'm like, "Oh, shit, he's

gonna crash into fence.

I know what will help." "I'll just stand

there and catch it." Straight over you.

Yeah.

Oh, wow, mate.

I, I got wiped out hard, but he didn't

crash into the fence or the wall and

die, so- Everybody's got a silver lining.

Good, good friend, eh?

Yeah.

But I got taken out so hard on that.

So hard, but yeah.

And you're like, "Oh, yeah, nice." Yeah.

But, sometimes I think

how do kids survive?

Some of the stuff we do-

Yeah … 'cause we think we're

indestructible- No … don't we?

Yeah, yeah.

They bounce.

Kids bounce.

They're not better than us anyway, yeah.

Has your daughter had anything where

it's been like, you're like heart sunk?

No, and touch wood.

Yeah, I'm not, not expecting it.

Good.

Yeah.

Good.

She's a very well-behaved kid as well.

A quick one on that, do you think

your experiences of growing up and

your dad… Your, sorry, not your dad.

The, the guy that made you- Going away, is

that, that helps you with your daughter?

Yeah, I like to think so She- always

said to myself, like even before I

joined the army, and I just said "I, I'd

wanna be there for my, my kid," 'cause

I didn't get that experience really.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, you still had a

pretty good upbringing with

dad and your mum, didn't you?

Yeah, yeah.

And he's- It was fairly all right.

Obviously, I understand, probably

talk about like dad's, obviously

dad's work commitments- Yeah … was

a bit of a toll, but yeah.

Absolutely, man.

To me, so we're similar-ish age.

I know you look a lot older than me.

But I think I am actually

a bit older than you.

Some pretty big things happened

while we were at school.

I think I was in, like year five or six.

You must've been like year four-

Yeah … five when 9/11 happened.

Yeah.

Can you remember it well?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I remember, I remember turning up, coming

home from s- school, and obviously my

aunt and my dad were watching the TV.

And you, you remember the old

school TVs, like the little- Yeah

projector.

It was one of those on the kitchen side.

And it, yeah, just watching it I think

it was both towers, like in smoke.

And then all night we're just up watching

it, and it's just, yeah, it was savage.

Yeah.

And I know Dad had to go to work that

night, so my aunt was looking after me.

And obviously I'm like, being a kid,

I was like, "Can I go out and play?"

And at the time it was like rollerblading.

Literally went down the drive,

slipped, smashed my head in, so that

gave my aunt a, even more of a shock.

I was just like, yeah, she

was worried I was concussed.

So yeah, man, another accident.

Amazing.

Let's just fast-forward to, like

what I think is probably your

worst accident you ever had.

So, like I'm, I'm petrified of heights.

If I, look over, like a multi-story

car park, that's me "Nah, I'm done."

Even, like getting… I- if I feel safe,

like there's a, an object between me

and I can't see over that thing, I'm

cool, but I'm petrified of heights.

Like being in Chinooks, going in,

like on Herrick, 'cause I can see

out the back, but there's someone

else there, I feel like pretty safe.

But in a car park, nah.

Why would you ever want to jump

out of a moving aircraft, or in

your case, jump off of a cliff?

I think it's just… When I first, yeah-

My military sc- well, I, I blame

the milit- military career.

I used to be petrified of heights,

and when I did my first parachute

jump, I fucking loved it.

So that obviously built up a li-

a life of skydiving, parachuting.

Yeah.

So when it come to BASE jumping,

I thought, "It's just another

static line jump." And honestly,

you weren't supposed to BASE jump.

You were there as a photographer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I, yeah, and even my mum and my

missus was like, "You better not jump."

I was like, "Nah, I'm just going out to

take photos." In the back of my head, I

was like, "I'm fucking jumping." Like- So

this, this was in Switzerland, wasn't it?

Yeah, Switzerland.

So you'd, you'd gone out there to

photograph guys doing BASE jumping-

Yeah, I was just go- I thought I

wanted to do some extreme photography

stuff, and I thought, "I know a

few lads who do BASE jumping."

And lucky enough they're going Switzerland

at the time, and they're like, "Do

you wanna come?" I was like, "Fucking

yeah, I'll come." And all week doing

photos on the side of the cliff, and

then the lads were like, "You fancy

jumping?" I was like, "Yeah, I'll give

it a go." Remember this video so well.

Three, two, one, see ya.

Yeah.

Literally.

And then, And then the next

thing, it was like, oh, fuck.

Yeah.

The canopy done a 180 into the cliff.

And yeah, and it, that's the

only accident I fully remember

that I was fully awake for it.

I didn't black out.

Most of my accidents, I usually

get to a point where I get

to a point, and I black out.

And yeah, this one I remember

slamming into the side, snapping my

leg, my, my fibia, and then trying

to fight the pain of coming down.

Managed to steer the canopy, gotten

the riser, steered the canopy

away, but by that time, got onto

a, I landed on a ledge, and then

basically done a couple of rolls.

The canopy caught onto the hedge

up above, and then obviously

I cried like a little bitch.

And I was up there for two hours,

and yeah, I was obviously had

a bit of a blackout moment with

the pain, and come back through.

My mate called me on my phone.

I was on my phone, and he's "It's all…

Everything's fine. We've called the rescue

lot." And yeah, I was up there for two

hours watching the helicopters go up,

down, up, down 'cause they were sorting

out the kit and equipment and people.

Yeah.

Savage.

Yeah.

And it was… I can't… Only

way I can describe this is like-

Just imagine like something coming

out and just hanging and then, boom,

getting slammed so hard into a cliff.

Like watching a video is pretty- I,

I don't know- … wild … I don't

know if it was lucky or Godsend.

Yeah, I think it was lucky to, that, that

ledge was there because yeah, I don't

think riding that all the way down that

cliff face, I think it's 1,800 meters.

It's fucking high.

It's high.

So yeah, trying to ride that

cliff face down was a bit- Yeah.

So, someone was watching over you that day

'cause you, you should be- Again … dead.

Yeah, yeah.

Like you, you- I know … you

shouldn't have survived that.

No, I mean.

You did cry a lot.

Yeah, yeah.

To be fair, you didn't actually cry.

You moaned, which, as much as we

take the piss out of you for it

it's pretty resilient to be there on

the phone, like adminning yourself.

Like at any point there, did

anything cross your mind like,

"This, this might be it for me"?

You're hanging off the side of

a cliff face, it's- So, on the

f- I need, I, I need to post up

the video footage, but I don't.

My mates get slated for it.

The video footage, you got me basically

fucking pretzeled on the floor, but

the ledge is literally, It is, it's on

a 45 degree de- like degree incline.

So every little bit of movement,

I was sliding on the gravel.

Luckily I had three, three lines o- going

up from the canopy that was holding me up.

But yeah, every little bit of movement I

was doing, it was just moving me and I was

just like, "Please don't fall off." 'Cause

if I fell, that, that would've been it.

There's no chance the

canopy's gonna reinflate.

Yeah.

That would've, that would've been me.

And how, how did you survive then?

So the rescue crew, they got…

They managed to get a… So the first

helicopter come up- Did a recce and

they spotted me, but they're like,

"The helicopter's not fit." The-

there was no way, way of getting the

helicopter near me, so they had to

go back down, change helicopters.

They then had to fly up again.

I watched them fly up, fly past me, and I

was like, "Where the fuck are they going?"

And he, the, the lad's like, "We don't

know. We don't know what's going on."

And then the helicopter come back up

with a cable, the longest cable they

had, with two crew at the bottom.

They dropped the crew on the edge,

and then they basically set up a

line system on the cliff face and

got down to me, put on like a rescue

nappy, and then the helicopter come

with a cable and winched me out.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's cool.

And I know people will be like, "Oh,

you're fucking selfish for that." But

I know for a fact the rescuers would've

been fucking buzzing about that job

because it's, it's something new.

It's, it's… In the end of the day,

we, people do that job for a reason.

Yeah.

'Cause I do the fucking firefighting

for a reason, and we love that stuff.

People's worst times

is, is our best times.

Yeah.

So, and I'm not saying go out and fucking

break yourself for the lads, but, yeah,

they're there, they're there, they're

there to do the job for a reason.

Yeah.

Yeah, they're there for a reason.

And I've got a lot of

time for them that, yeah.

And then you could argue that,

well, you shouldn't do BASE jumping.

If you didn't do BASE jumping,

then it wouldn't happen.

But then you could argue

you shouldn't play rugby.

Yeah.

You shouldn't go and do jujitsu.

You shouldn't do anything that could

cause you any harm- Yeah … because

you live in this protective world,

and I think a big advocate for people

that push the human body, like,

to their absolute limits, yeah.

It's not like you're

doing anything like that.

The, the, the argument against could

be you're putting the rescuers' lives

in danger by making them do that.

Yeah.

If there was no rescuers

there that's on you.

They're there for a reason though, right?

Because people do- This is

it … get stuck and stuff happens.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's like- And also- And they,

I think they're all quite happy to

see me alive, not fucking picking

off a dead body off a cliff.

Yeah.

But I think it's also if, what

if, what if the canopy opened

straight and I landed it?

I would've been at the bottom

having a beer with the boys.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

It's, it's a massive what if.

We- I took that chance 'cause I, I

fully, was fully confident in that.

It would've been a case of I

jump mate, and it is, it is a, a

designed technique for BASE jumping.

It's called PCA where they like

the, one of their mates holds the

pilot chute to pull your parachute.

So it is a, a designed technique.

So I was just… I, I, with my training, I

thought it'd be just another stacked line.

I jump, canopy opens, steer away.

Yeah.

But obviously, yeah, it

opened the wrong way.

And there was also a cost involved- Yeah.

Yeah, mate … to being, to being saved.

So, people- Yeah

might be there like, "Oh, well, you've

put their lives in danger. You've done

this. They're doing that for free." I tell

you what, it wasn't free, though, was it?

It was a kick in the nuts.

So, Yeah.

Yeah, I was in hospital and- Yeah,

so I got airlifted to hospital, and

the guys, the, the, the doctors are

like "Look, your leg needs surgery.

You're gonna be in for six

weeks." And then me, me being

me, I was like, "Fuck that.

I'm getting myself home." Bear in mind

I'm in Switzerland, and they're like,

"Well, you can't fly because you've

broken your ribs and you've got a

pneumothorax." I was like, "That's fine.

I'll get a train or I'll get

a ferry." And I was adamant of

just taking my bag and going.

So obviously I had that.

I, luckily, the lads drove me

halfway to France and met my family

there, and then I got repatriated

from France to Southampton.

So I had to pay for the

cost of repatriation.

Well, my mum did for that one.

And then, yeah, afterwards I got

home, got surgery, and then got

home, and

I was there for months.

Letter come through the post

and the bill was 12 grand.

Did you know that this

bill was gonna come?

Oh, yeah.

I knew… I, I didn't know

how expensive it was gonna be.

Luckily, I started doing a bit of

research while I was in hospital on my

phone and checked that I could claim,

I could get the global hit card to sort

me out even while I was in hospital,

so I could get something to cover me

even though I've had the accident.

And then it also covers five grand.

So it cut, it cut the cost

down to seven thankfully.

Which is still, it's gotta be one of

the most expensive base jumps going.

Yeah, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But seven grand for your life

is, is nothing, isn't it, really?

It's nothing.

And it… Do you know what?

For the efforts though the crew put

into me, and I'll tell you what, they

fucking, they winched me down to the

ground and they gave me ketamine.

Yeah.

Jesus Christ I was having a…

It, it knocked me out, and then

I'd come back through and I

was seeing all sorts of stuff.

I, I remember one point I was laying

there and I popped up like the dead.

And they're like, "Are you all

right?" I'm like, "I'm fucked."

And I just went back down.

And I remember, yeah, they tried to

realign my leg, and I woke up from that

and they pulled my leg to realign it,

and they could- they just couldn't do it.

But yeah, I remember the pain of that.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

So even with ketamine you still-

Yeah, yeah … had a lot of

pain going through that leg.

They gave me ketamine, fentanyl.

Yeah, they gave me the works, mate.

Wow.

Druggy.

Yeah.

Literally.

Let's chat about dad as well.

Coming back to your childhood,

so Dad wasn't just normal dad,

he was also a Royal Marine.

Yeah, yeah.

So he left 1991.

I think he met my mum

in 1995?

Yeah, 1995.

So he was still very

much old school Marine.

Obviously he did- he didn't know how to

be a dad, so it was very hard for him, to

take on the role as a dad to start with.

And he even said it to me.

He's like, "I don't know how to be a dad."

He s- he told me straight.

And I was like, as a kid, I was

like, "Yeah, fair enough." So it

was, I had, I had hard times with

him 'cause he didn't know how to

guide me really, but he was there.

So, but yeah, he's, he's … He'd

always tell me stories about

his marine, marine days.

Has that been a little bit of your

inspiration as to why you wanted

to ultimately join the military?

Yeah, 100%.

He'd take me into the field.

He, he'd teach, he'd teach with, hence

the fishing lessons with his, the uncle.

He'd teach the lads bushcraft, he'd teach

how to set up traps, set up shelter.

They're really cool lessons and

yeah it's really cool to learn.

And then obviously him telling you

stories about his skiing trips and just

getting drunk as a marine and that.

Yeah.

Love it.

Yeah, it's fucking cool.

Love it.

That's amazing.

That, that is brilliant.

He was looking for a job in

Iraq working CP when you were-

Yeah … quite young as well.

Yeah, mate.

And the way I found out was Mum…

I was ready to go to school, and

literally 10 minutes before I was

gonna go, Mum's on the phone to the

insurance company going, "Yeah, I

need some life insurance for Dad."

And he, she's like, "Yeah, he's going

to Iraq." I was like, "What the fuck?"

And obviously at the time, Iraq's

kicking off at this time- Yeah … on,

on the news, and, or we was watching

the news about with Afghan and Iraq,

and I remember, like, when the, the, the

assault started on Iraq and that, and

I was just like, "Oh, for fuck's sake."

And then to hear Dad's going, I'm

like, "Brilliant." So yeah, it was

a bit of a kick in the nuts again

because the rotation was, was heavy.

He'd do two months away and a month back.

Yeah, so there's a lot of time

for him to be away, and I,

I, I completely understand.

Now being a dad, I understand,

like, why he done it because it

is financially we v- he- Yeah

Dad would do security work and all sorts.

'Cause as a marine, he'd

come out with nothing really.

So, and the standard thing to, a marine

to do is go for close protection stuff.

Yeah.

Always.

So, and he wanted to look

after the family, so yeah.

The, the best option for him

was, and it was good money.

Yeah.

But obviously it was a

sacrifice to the family.

Which I'm sure you can

appreciate more now than- 100%.

What you- What you- Yeah … what

you did back as a 10-year-old kid.

Literally.

Literally, mate.

And where we are at now,

yeah, I totally understand.

Loving up their life, sunning

it up in France, isn't it?

100%, yeah.

Where they live.

Yeah.

Fair play to them yeah.

Yeah.

Mum's, Mum's got a fucking

animal sanctuary, and that's,

that's her dream, mate.

Lovely.

So I can't complain.

The, as we get a bit older as

well, there's more where we

look at we've got that vision.

When, when we're young, I think

we're too naive to look at things

and be like, "Oh, that," like- Yeah

me, me and my cars, just sold one

of the cars, and I'm like- it's

the worst thing I've ever done.

I'm like, "Oh." I've lost a bit of my

identity again, 'cause you know I've

always liked my cars, and it's oh, man,

but it's, that little bit of short-term

sacrifice, that long-term- Yeah

getting to have a better car.

Your dad short-term sacrifice,

being away from the family.

It's all the same thing.

Making a sacrifice now for your, your

future and what you want in the future.

It's, is, they're all the same things, i-

and it always, always pays off for you.

Also, another huge incident

that happened, 9/11 happened.

7/7 happened, didn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

I think I was in year 10 or 11 then.

I- Yeah … I mean, I remember

distinctly hearing it saying, and we

were like, "Oh, it's the French, the

French. The French are doing this."

Because we just won the Olympic bid.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So we were like, "Oh, this, it

must be the Fre- it must be the

French that have done this."

Yeah.

We were too young and too naive to

really understand I think what was

going on in the world, like, that

this could be, like, terrorists.

Yeah.

And then remember our teachers being

like, "No, it's not. And if anybody

knows where their parents- … or their

family work in London, you're allowed

to go now, and you're allowed to use

the phones, and you're allowed to

try and call your parents and see if

they're okay and doing all of that."

And then we went home early,

and it was like, "Shit." Yeah.

That was- Yeah, that was a fucking

another shock, wasn't it, really?

Yeah.

It's yeah, I remember that day.

I was at school, and my dad

was in London at the time, so

obviously I'm fucking panicking.

And lucky he answered pretty quickly.

He was like, "No, I'm fine.

It's all good." But yeah, it's it's a

sh- it was, shit news for the country

to deal with that, really, isn't it?

And I, watched documentaries back onto

it, and you're like, it's still as bad

as what it was like when you look back on

it and just how tactically they done it.

Savage.

Yeah.

And it's, you, looking back, I watch a

lot of stuff on it now and- how in depth

the plot was and how many- Absolutely

how many failed attempts there

was- Yeah … that it either our

guys had managed to foil or, again,

the bombs that didn't detonate

properly- Yeah, yeah … afterwards.

It was watching back, I think, as

atrocious as it was, we got off so

lucky- Luckily … as a country.

I- if, if you- Pet America's.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you don't know about 7/7 there's

a, there's a lot of stuff out there

and, and documentaries and, and

research go into it, and how they

caught them and everything else- Mm

that happened, and it was, it's

wild is the only way to say it.

Yeah, Netflix done a one.

It's, yeah.

I mean, really good.

Yeah.

Really good.

A- a- and it's like that kind of stuff.

I really, enjoy is

probably the wrong word.

I'm very passionate about-

Yeah … finding out what happened.

Yeah, yeah … a- and I do

enjoy the research into it

and seeing what's happened.

No conspiracy theories or anything

like, just, just- The finer detail

… looking at, like, how will it manage

to get that far to get it done?

The threat was there, but it was

never a thing that the same as like-

Yeah … Israel and, and Palestine

and, well, not Palestine, but Hamas

and their atrocious attacks in October.

Yeah.

It watching how it's like-

Yeah … just really quickly.

And like the probable scale of things,

we have a worst case scenario, but

it's probably never gonna happen-

Yeah … to a this is the best possible

case scenario and it might happen.

And so we meet somewhere in the middle,

and that's normally where we PID our

threats and that's what we respond to.

But again, it's 7/7 was like, "Oh,

shit, it actually done it." Yeah.

Like- Yeah … whoa.

And yeah, the amount, like

I said, the amount of foiled

attempts since that has been wild.

I mean, that for a few months

up to a year or so, yeah, crazy.

We've subsequently, these two incidences

are what took us all to war and

our generation to war- It must've

after that, yeah.

Which is, is pretty mad.

Back into childhood though, still before

you've, you've joined the army, so

the, these 7/7 bombings have happened

and then you moved away to Somerset.

Yeah, man.

Yeah.

It's do a Somerset accent.

I can't.

Now I'm gonna be on the spot.

I, I'll struggle to.

All right, me lover.

No.

Well, yeah, I used to-

Bit of Bristol … yeah.

Is that Somerset?

It's a, yeah, it's the same.

They all sound the fucking same.

They all sound the same.

Sound like they're under water.

We're such a, we're such a small country.

It was weird though.

Yeah.

I turned up to Somerset with a Cockney

accent, and they're like, "Your, oh,

your, your accent's weird, innit?"

You're like, "What are you on about?

My accent's fine. Yours is fucking

weird." You're the ones that are weird.

Yeah, literally, yeah.

You're the ones that are weird.

But no, they're good, they're good

people, and it's, it's a really

nice area to live in, to be honest.

Yeah Why?

Why did you move away?

Because of the…

W- what was going on around

London and that, and I think mom

and dad just had enough of it.

And I think the area was changing

a bit, so they were just like, "We

need a change." And because of dad's

work, we, it gave us the option

to move away, and they took it.

I imagine things like property prices,

cost of living, way of life is a

lot slower and dare say probably

more affordable as well, so you get

more for your money being- Yeah.

Well, I think they just- … excuse

the insult … they wanted

their own place as well.

They'd got bored of living

in the council house.

Yeah.

And the council house was tiny.

I went back there when I was 20,

and yeah, I didn't realize how

small the place was, but… So yeah,

they just wanted their own piece

You were also, one of your biggest

military accolades, an air cadet.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I was a… Yeah.

And it… Do you know what?

I, I… People kick off about it and take

the piss out of it, but it helps you.

I, I definitely recommend it for kids.

It puts you on the straight and narrow.

It taught me how to iron, look after,

look after my kit, my uniform, my shoes

and then, a bit of discipline as well.

And I think from the age of 13 to 16, it

gave me that bit of focus onto something.

Otherwise, I would've just sat home,

got fat and played on the Xbox all day.

Yeah.

I feel I, I, I highly recommend it

as a kid, and I'm, I hope my daughter

does it because it gave me the

option to go on training camps, go…

I got c- I got to go skiing with them.

Do you know what I mean?

As a, as a air cadet, and that

was, like, only 300 quid, and it

was with the RAF RAF instructors.

Yeah.

So it was like, yeah, opportunities

as a kid to go skiing, flying,

and do you know what I mean?

You fly a fucking plane.

Yeah.

At the age of 13.

Which you did do, you

learned to fly, didn't you?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

It was really cool, man.

So I was like, yeah.

And people knock it down, but the

opportunities you got as a kid, yeah.

Yeah, no, they're wild.

And a lot of it is banter- Yeah

… where we're there trying to riff on

guys that have joined the cadets-

what- whatever cadet force it

may be because we compare them.

Once we're serving, we compare it

cadets to guys that's, "Oh, yeah, ooh,

oh, this is real soldiering." We're

like, "Yeah, 'cause you're an adult

being paid to do your job." But, like,

when, when you… as we've grown up a

little bit, I think we can then look

at it and say "Actually, cadets is

fantastic," or whether it's Cubs, Beavers,

Scouts for guys, Brownies, Guides- Mm

might be something more

for, for the women.

Doing these extracurricular

activities as a kid are brilliant.

It's brilliant for the social bonding

that you get out of it, the s- life

s- skills and lessons you learn from

it, the discipline you get from it.

Yeah.

I would be a, a huge advocate for doing

anything with the cadets or, or any,

any, any of these clubs outside of it.

I think kids absolutely should do it.

Yeah.

If kids are just going just to

school and doing nothing else,

it's a bit, what else is there?

I get there's a monetary cost to

it, but from what I understand

it's not a lot really, is it?

It's, it's- No, mate … it's pretty

cheap and- Yeah … there, there's

enough charities out there, if anyone's

watching it and you're, you are a,

depending on how it is a lower income

family and you can't afford to do it,

there'll always be help out there for,

for kids to do stuff, and I think it's…

Yeah

Pretty cool thing to do Oh, 100%.

And I, it, well, it definitely helped

when it come to my military training

because I already knew, or, or I felt

like I had a head start on certain things,

especially like my admin and that, because

I knew how to take care of my uniform.

And then obviously when it come

to exercise stuff and that, I sort

of, I sort of knew what to do.

So it gave, it gives you

a massive head start.

But yeah, it, I think it, if you

start, start at it young when it

comes to your life decisions when

you're older, it definitely helps.

Same.

Same.

We must be getting at an age now where

either college or the military must have

started becoming … So you're what now?

So and also learning to drive,

doing any of these things here,

which I think you also had a

Mr. Accident I think you are, you

should just be a crash test dummy

Yeah, literally I've got the head for

it, so So tell us a little bit about

your accident and what's happened.

So yeah, I… And this was typical.

So I got the start date for the army

and with my army career, it was weird.

I, I, I, I was, I was watching the news

about Afghan and watched TV programs like

Our War, and, there was an episode with

Chris Gray where they do the Casey Vac.

And there's one m-moment where I

was like, there's like, they talked

about team medics and all that stuff.

I was like, "I really want to be a

medic." So I applied to the army as a

medic, and I got a start position or

start date, and I was like, "Yeah, happy

days." And two months before me and

a few lads, we went on this little…

It was, like, a local time trial.

It was literally in an open field.

There's several hay bales, and you

basically got to drive your, your

car around certain little routes,

and you basically get timed.

And me and my mate were pissing

around, typically, and I was driving.

Shock.

And we bombed through this gate, and

I was in an old school classic Mini,

and there's a video of it again.

And as we drove through, the

nose dipped, and it bounced, and

it took off air, and we landed.

And the, and all the lads were

like, "This is fucking amazing."

"Go again. We'll film you." And

obviously confidence build up, so

with the confidence, you get fucking

more courageous, and this time spun

it around, got to the end, parked up.

My mate Howie next to me, I

didn't have my seatbelt on.

He did… He was trying

to get his seatbelt on.

I was like, "Fuck that.

You don't need it.

You'll be all right, mate." And literally

I bombed it, and we were fucking… And

we were going a lot quicker this time,

and this time I remember going through

the gate, and it happened pretty quickly.

The nose, nose bounced, and

I remember the, the, the Mini

coming up, back end went over,

and I was on the steering wheel.

I just remember seeing ground and

the Mini turning over to the left

and then the windscreen just smashing

in, and then I just blacked out.

Next thing, I woke up on the ground,

some guys holding my head, and they're

like, "Fraze, Fraze, you're all right.

You're all right." And obviously I'm

like, "What? What the fuck's happened?"

And they gave the bullshit stories.

"Oh, you crashed, you crashed on

your mate's car" and all this shit.

I, I sat up, looked down.

Again, my left leg, I got

deep cuts on my left leg.

Pretty nice scar.

And then I obviously laid back down.

Hems come in, gave me m-medical,

and what happened was- As the car's

rolling, I got flung out to the driver's

side window, and my mate Howie, he

somehow got pushed back into the back

seat, and his roof caved in, and he

was stu- obviously stuck in the car.

But he, he come out with a

bruised collarbone somehow.

And yeah, and I come out

with just a cut to my leg.

But obviously with that,

I got flung… Yeah.

And with that, that accident, the

lads went off to s- get my mum,

and they're like, "Fraser's had

an accident." So she come down.

She was only down the road.

She come down, seeing the hems and that

were there, so she started panicking.

And they're like, "Look, your son's

He's fine, but obviously he's, he's

under…" I think I was 17 or 18 No,

he's "He- he's gotta go to hospital.

You've gotta come flying,"

and she hates flying.

Oh.

She fucking hates flying.

And I remember being all strapped in,

and I can see in the corner of my eye

Mum sitting in the seat in a, one of

the, the, the paramedic seat, and she

was looking out the window crying.

But she weren't crying 'cause of me, she

was crying 'cause she was flying over

Bristol Channel and she was like, "Fuck

this." Oh, I was sitting there "Oh,

fuck." Like- So what I'm getting from

this is all of your accidents are just

because you like flying in helicopters?

Yeah.

Why don't you just buy a helicopter?

Oh, mate, I'd love to be a pilot.

I, it's one of my dreams as a kid,

yeah, is to be a fucking pilot.

And yeah, yeah, it's just

one way of getting flights.

Yeah.

Just just get a flight like everyone else.

Just, yeah, oh yeah.

Be cheaper.

You gotta try, you gotta try

and write yourself off- … just

to get a helicopter, bro.

Oh, mate.

You can do higher things and do

pil- like lessons in helicopters.

But yeah- … with that accident,

it I thought, I did the stupid

thing of telling the Army.

I had a, it, 'cause it, it pulled a

liga- ligament on my back, so I lost

feeling in my back for a bit, and I

told the Army about it, and they're

like, "Right, well, you can't go in."

So I was like, "For fuck's sake."

And they're like, "You gotta do a

three-month training plan to refund

you." We'll just, we'll just rewind this.

Oh, yeah.

Before your accident, you'd

applied to join the Army.

Oh, no, I, I, no, no, no.

You were already- Yeah, so this is it.

So I had the start date- Yeah … and then

two months before I had that accident.

So I had the start date, it was

like June time, and I think it was

April time I did the time trial

in the car and had my accident.

So, and this is, you were applying to be

a m- a medic, though, at, at this point?

Yeah, yeah.

I wanted to get in as a medic, which

I was, like, really keen about.

And then well, yeah, and then they

were like, "Well, you can't start June

because of your injuries so you gotta do

a three-month training plan before we,

you can even think about going back in."

So I was like, "For fuck's sake."

So I did the training plan, did

everything, sent the f- like, the

docu- over to them, and "Yeah, you're

gonna have to wait another year and

a half for a medic position." Wow.

So I was just like, "Oh, for fuck's

sake." So and then obviously waited a

couple of months, kept, and did, did the

usual thing of calling up recruitment,

be like, "Look, any positions?"

And everyone says "Keep calling

them up 'cause there might be a p-

position, and if you keep calling

them up you're pretty keen." They,

it shows you're keen to get in.

And they're like, "No, still waiting,

still waiting." So I decided to change

job roles and went for artillery.

And what year was this that

you were looking to join?

I was looking to join

about 2017, 2000- Yeah.

No.

Wrong.

2012. Yeah, 2011, 2012 Yeah.

I was like, 'cause I got some notes

down on Fraser here, and I've got had

an accident in 2018 when he was trying

to join the Army- Oh, yeah … and

then started training in May 2013.

Yeah, dyslexic me-

Solid … come on, fuck yeah.

Yeah, dyslexic son.

It does l- these notes do

look like someone's just got a

keyboard and a headbutted it.

I got excited, right?

It's yeah, so if you're ever wondering

what the iPad is, the iPad is just some

notes just to make sure I, I keep- Fucking

… on topic and, and true to what they are.

Doesn't help your ADHD, does it?

So, No, and there's, there's lots of

words here as well, and I can't read.

So, there's little coloring-in

bits in there as well.

Leave it out, mate.

I haven't eaten my crayons either.

Yeah, yeah.

But anyway, so you didn't

end up joining as a medic?

No.

It transpires.

So what did you join?

Artillery, yeah, as a gunner.

Why?

I think it was just one of

those options, it's just one of

those easiest options to get in.

I just, at this time I was working at

Tesco, so I was like, "I fucking hate

this shit," and I just wanted to get

in, in the hope I could go Afghan.

I wa- I wanted to go war.

That, watching it on the news, I was

just… Yeah, I had a few mates who,

who'd been to Afghan talking about it,

and I was like, "That's what I want."

This is 2013?

20… Yeah, 2012, 2013.

So it's, y- Herrick is still going well.

Yeah, it's going strong.

Yeah.

It's… And it's, it's very, very

courageous thing to do, or some people

might say dumb, but it's very courageous

and very… Would you call yourself

patriotic to- Yeah, 100% … want to

go out and, fight alongside the lads?

Yeah.

I, I, I didn't see, see

myself as a war fighter.

I wanted to b- I wanted to go as a medic

to help the lads and save, save lives.

Yeah.

That, that's- That was your

thing … that was my thing.

I, I found it more

Rewarding, running.

I'm not saying all medics,

I know most medics now check

feet and that's it really.

But, to have the opportunity to

run under gunfire to save that lad

who's been hit by an IED or grenade.

Do you know what I mean?

That's, that's more my

thing than anything.

Yeah, which is wicked.

Admirable.

But alas, it was entering

the artillery as a gunner.

Yeah.

So, a- and it's still, the

height of Afghan's still going.

I think anyone that signs on that

dotted line to join regardless of branch

of service is, should be respected.

Of which it is, and then

military banter comes into it.

Yeah, yeah.

But that's a separate thing, do you know?

It's thank you for joining up to serve.

How was training for you going through?

Was it what you expected?

I loved it.

I, yeah, I, yeah, I really loved it.

We was down at Winchester.

It's like the late entry.

Yeah.

But a lot of the lads on, in this seat

have said it's the lads that make it.

And I made some really cool mates

during training, and there were some

really tough times, but, it was easy

just to look to your left and right

and see you're not alone through it.

And there was a lot of lads

going, get smashed on it as well.

Yeah, it was good.

It was good.

And you look back on it and you're like,

"Yeah, I'd go through that again." How

did Dad take it when you were talking

about joining, Do you know what?

… the Army rather than- So he, he-

Did he want you to be a Marine?

No, he told me not to, and his reasoning,

which is understandable, because you don't

get to pick your job role as a Marines.

Yeah.

And he said "If you're gonna do

something, at least get s- a some sort

of role. If y- if you're gonna decide,

then it's down to you, innit?" And the

Marines, you don't really get a decision.

No, it's… Yeah, you could

join the Marines, go through

like training, and be a chef.

Literally.

Or be, Yeah … be police.

It- It's, it's crazy.

Not- To be these ultimate, ultimate

soldiers- Yeah … to then be stuck

in some store room or something.

Yeah.

Absolutely no.

To be, to be in a commando unit,

to go and do your war fighting, you

don't really have a choice for it.

No.

And that's what you want.

So it's, that's why a lot of guys that

are, like, torn between infantry or more

specifically Regt Paras Regt Paras, Reg

or Marines they'll go Reg because it's,

and that, that the job I am going to do-

You're gonna be a soldier, aren't you?

… that is what I'm doing.

Yeah, yeah.

And there's no chance of me gonna

be a chef or a clerk- Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, yeah … doing anything

else, which is, is pretty cool.

So did you then manage to get a tour in?

No.

You were, you were scheduled

for Herrick 18, I think it was.

Yeah, yeah.

It's that was fucking kicking the nuts.

So on tr- we was in training.

We were like, we, we all talk about "Oh, I

wonder if we get to go." And the corporals

lined us up, and one of them come out

and goes, "Look, there's a, a fat chance

any of you are gonna go Afghan," because

they're looking to close it all down.

And obviously after that we're

like, "Fuck." "What'd you do?"

And I think we were like the first lot

to be told like, "Yeah, Afghan weren't

happening." And obviously, typically, a

couple weeks later, unfortunately, that's

when Lee Rigby's incident happened.

We was in the m- the scuffle,

and yeah, the, watching the news,

and that's when he popped up.

Yeah.

That's it.

It was shit.

Rest in peace, Lee.

Yeah, massively.

It's, yeah.

We went to that camp after, Yeah

… Ra- Broadgreen Barracks, London.

It was, we were there, I

think a couple of years.

It might've been a couple of y- yeah,

probably a couple of years after that.

We, we moved from down here in Wiltshire

up to London, and oh, what a shithole.

Yeah.

What a shithole.

Yeah, man.

It's we were the odd ones out being there.

It was like, it, it was crazy.

We had no real dramas, but it was always

like you could cut tension in certain

areas that you don't go- Yeah, yeah

And if you went out singles, it's,

yeah Make sure, yeah, make sure

you always buddy up It's, yeah,

a- and knife crime is, is pr-

prevalent, like- Well, obviously

regardless what anyone says,

it, it's, it's not good.

Like- Look at it now, mate … la- lads

will be brandishing blades and stuff,

and it's lads are going out there "Oh,

yeah, you got … We'll have to have a

scrap." And you're like, "Oh, shit," yeah.

It's not- But it is probably

not real, but it's- Literally

it- it's bad.

It's bad.

When you're going out for Herrick 18,

though, you got a pretty cool crossover

with the SBS as well, didn't you?

Mate, what a fucking crossover that was.

So yeah, I, I got put into, … So went

through phase two, and near the end,

you get, they, they tell you, you get a

choice of what regiment you wanna go to.

I put down for Four Seven Regiment

because of the drones, and I knew with

the drone capability, it'll go up.

It, it, it's the future.

And but I didn't get

to choose what subunit.

And funny enough, the corporals and

sergeants at the phase two lot were

like, "You're going two one battery."

And I was like, "Two one battery?"

And they said, "The airborne unit for Four

Seven Regiment." And I was like, "Why?

Why, why put me there?" They're like,

they're like, "You're, w- we think you

would do well there because of like

you're fit enough, and like you can

actually think for yourself." So I was

like, "Okay." And my first week there,

the unit were unfortunately on, on

Herrick 18 at the time, so it was just,

it was me and obviously all the new

other recruits that have been put there.

And the first week we got put as

a shit detail just to kill time

was to paint an artillery gun.

And yeah, so we had to

fucking sand it all down.

We was all in these Tyvek suits, sand this

lead paint down, which we've probably got

fucking cancer from by now, and then paint

it this lu- luminance, luminance green.

It was horrendous.

But at the same time, there was a exercise

going on, and it was all the SBS lads.

And yeah, it their fucking life was cool.

They had all this, all this

equipment, like, sitting in

our hangar as an admin area.

And you're just like, "Oh my

God." And they would just leave.

They left a couple sim rounds.

And you, seeing all this shit, you're

like, "What? This is the fucking…" And

yeah, we was paint- one day was painting

the gun and all having breakfast, and

they're all fucking taking pictures of us.

And we're like, "For fuck's

sake." It was just a shit detail.

And I was like, "What have I got

myself into?" Like- Yeah … yeah.

But yeah, to see, obviously, the

special forces sort of do their

thing, obviously to see yeah, the

green army doing their thing Yeah.

Yeah.

Love it, man.

Love it.

You you were actually quite fit

as well, and you went on to do P

Company- Yeah … in your career.

Yeah.

You w- was it an airborne

unit you were with?

Yeah, yeah.

So it was- So two one air assault battery

You're sort of expected to be fit enough

to go and get ready for, for P Company.

Yeah.

I think f- the first one I was,

I was fit enough, but I wasn't

prepared enough for the course So

when it come to, so we was on Forney

Island, which is flat as a pancake.

It's an airfield, so

it's flat as a pancake.

So trying to train for hills up in

Catterick, a massive shock to the culture.

And, looking back on it, it was

like, it was just fit sessions.

So you, you'd think you'd be all

right, but you're carrying a 17K

Bergen on your back with a rifle

going up these horrendous hills,

and you're going at a pace- Yeah

To try and train that on a flat land

was, yeah, it was a shock to me.

My first one was an absolute shock to me.

And I, I, I, yeah, I VW'd because I

was just like, "I'm not fit enough

for it." I got, I think I got two

'Cause you do beat up with your unit or

with if you're like with 16 Air Assault,

you do like a 16 Air Assault beat up.

You then go up to Catterick and you do a

couple of m- more weeks beat up with them.

And then, yeah, you, you start like

your P Company days.

I think I got to like the first

week of P Company, so like that

was like good with races and stuff.

But you did go back and get it completed?

Yeah, third time lucky.

The second time I got injured

on the- Yeah … assault course.

And do you remember those old

school black, black issued boots?

Yeah.

Fucking, I didn't tie it n- tie it enough,

so as I was running along the assault

course, smashed my heel in, bruised that.

So I was trying to run with a bruised

heel, which then obviously constipate on

my fucking foot, and that fucked it up.

So I was like, "Well, I can't," I

couldn't, couldn't keep up with the squad,

so I was just getting like yellow cards.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, third time lucky.

Which is good, like it, it's

nice to see people fail.

Yeah.

And I say that with all due respect

that something like P Company is

meant to be an arduous course.

There's no paper passes there-

Yeah … and that's evidence of it, and

what would be better, to have someone,

"Oh, you-" Yeah, yeah …"you're fine,

yeah, whatever, you go through." Yeah.

Or, "You're not good

enough, you failed." Yeah.

"Come back and do it again." And it

makes a better soldier in doing so.

Like there's nothing wrong with failure,

because it's maintaining and gatekeeping

standards for a reason, isn't it?

Yeah.

So it's- 100%.

I- I'm glad to see someone's failed and,

and, and says it, and then, ultimately you

went back and did it and passed and met

the standards, and the standards are still

the standards today, which is- This is it

it's good.

I, well, I never planned, never planned

in my life to do P Company, so when it

come to my, on my, the opportunity to

come, I was like, "Yeah." And then when

the first time I did it, I, I, I wasn't,

I didn't think I'd go and do it again.

I was adamant I weren't gonna do it again.

Yeah.

I think being with around with the

lads in the battery, I was just

like, "All right, I'll give it a go."

Yeah.

And the, the, the second time,

luckily we got moved up to

Larkhill, which is a bit more hilly.

Yeah.

So when it come to doing our beat up and

that, the fitness built up with the hills.

So when I come to Catterick,

I found it a bit easier.

It was still tough.

Yeah.

Nice.

And on that, that third attempt,

just tell us a little bit about P-

P Company, like what you had to do,

what were some of the, the challenges?

Like what was the hardest one as well?

Oh, it's savage, mate.

It's you do either a tab or a run

in the morning, and you're up early.

You got, there's sort … If

you've ever been up Catterick,

it's, it's just derelict.

Like it's just hills on hills, and

you're just fucking marching everywhere.

And it's a, you got to k- maintain

a certain pace, and it's just making

sure you're grit and determined, 'cause

your, your body just gets knackered.

And then in the afternoon you're

either doing like a circuit,

where they just batter your body,

or assault course or just, yeah.

And then you build, you basically

knack yourself for I think

it's nine weeks, 10 weeks.

You do that, and then your final

week's obviously P Company,

which is like your assessments.

So you're doing your 10-miler,

your 2-miler, 20-miler.

Steeplechase, milling, and

trinasium, and that as well.

And then, oh yeah, and stretcher and

log run, which log run, Jesus Christ,

that's fucking horrendously … I re-

I remember blocking out blacking out at

the end, like holding on for dear life.

Getting near the end, I was blacking out.

Just the vision was going.

And lucky I got over the cattle grid.

I was like, "Fucking hell." Done.

It's literally a sprint.

Finished.

It's literally a sprint with a log.

Yeah.

And yeah, it's savage.

It is savage.

What was the hardest part

of, of P Company for you?

Yeah, log.

Trinasium.

Part trinasium and log.

They do like, they do like the

introduction to trinasium, and

you do like the Superman jump.

It's fucking easy, and I did it six times.

And then when it come to the

assessment day I kept freezing.

I run, and you, you gotta run

over the planks, but I got to the

end, I was like, and I just froze.

The DS was like fucking shouting at me.

I was like, "Oh, fucking hell,

what am I doing? What am I

doing here?" I kept freezing.

And they were like, "Right, get the fuck

down." I was like, "Here we go." And

they were like, "Stand to the side."

I was like, "Fuck, this is me off the

course." And the OC come up and gripped

me, and he's like, "If you don't fucking

jump, you're off the fucking course.

I just want you to fucking

jump." I was like, "Roger that."

So then he put me up there again.

He's like, "Standby, go." Fucking went

for it, and I just fucking jumped.

Just chucked my body into the net.

Yeah.

Didn't fucking do it properly,

but he's like, "Yeah, happy.

That's it." I was like, "Thank

fuck for that." Is that near the

end of the course as well, then?

So that's P Company, so

that's your first assessment.

Is the, is the trinasium?

So yeah, you do 10 mile,

and you do trinasium.

Yeah.

So after being there for all those

times- Oh, mate, don't … and thinking-

It was fucking- … like nearly

potentially getting kicked off again.

It was like a massive mental block.

I was like, "What is going on with me?" It

was, it, I, yeah, couldn't understand and-

I've realized my t- my 20s where I

was, like, so naive and just fucking,

yeah, mentally I was all over the shop.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

And w- weren't we all though, hey?

Mill in.

For those that don't know what mill

in is, tell us a little bit of what

it is and, and then how you found it.

It's basically punching each other

in the face for a good minute.

And it's just head shots only.

Obviously it changes to

head gear, no head gear.

Often we had head gear on, but yeah,

it's just one minute of nonstop punching

each other, and then when they give

you a word command, "Stop," you stop.

It's just basically to see how you

react to commands and making sure

you… It, it, it, it's to basically

simulate you following commands when

you need to go, like being in the door

of a plane or under contact of fire.

Yeah.

And that you, you're not allowed

to defend yourself either, are you?

No.

It's just- No, you gotta just take the hit

you've just gotta take- Yeah … a

minute of punching to the face.

Both you at the same

time just going at it.

Literally, yeah.

But no, no defending it.

No trying to do… It's

just straight up- No.

And- … punching fuck out of each

other's faces- Literally … for a

minute, and then when you stop, out

attention, stopped, done, finished.

It's fucking mental.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And some are you in skins, some are

you in shirts, and they basically pair

you off who you're gonna go against.

And I remember you get the tap

on the shoulder, you get on the

line, you stand there and you

wait for your partner to turn up.

And funny enough, it's the, it was one

of my mates who I'd stick with on tabs.

Yeah.

And obviously they all

obviously clocked onto it.

Yeah.

So they wanna, they put me against

s- John Spraggan, he's called.

And yeah, went, went against each other.

But thankfully I did some boxing training

just to help my fitness beforehand.

Yeah.

So obviously it helped.

Yeah.

And yeah.

Nice.

There's another part of P Company

though, which is the actual jumps.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

That's fucking cool.

That's, and it's run by the RAF.

And giving them their due, they, they

know, they know how to run a course.

Yeah, it was fucking awesome.

I, I think I had the, in the back of

my head, because of the trainees, I

was a bit like, "Fucking hell, I, I

need to make sure I don't refuse."

'Cause there's always the chance

of, people refusing at the door,

and I remember my first jump.

The training school's brilliant, like

you're on the ground school doing

your PLFs, and you, you, you bu- they

basically build you up from there and

teach you all the malfunctions you,

you could come up with and everything.

And then you go into your first

jump, which is on a sky van, and

it, it says on the tim it's like

a rickety old thing with wings.

And I remember sitting in the seat,

and there's a load of para reg lot

who've just, they're going off to

one para, and they're all sitting

there like getting ready to jump.

I'm fucking like, like the adrenaline's

going, got the obvious leg going, and

I could see just like the skyline of

houses just in the, in the window.

And in, in the corner here

was like a gauge, altimeter

gauge, we're at 1,000 feet.

And one of the lads is like, "Are you

all right, mate?" I was like, "Yeah."

He's like, he's like, "You'll be fucking

fine." I was like, "Yeah, I know.

I just want to get off here." Yeah.

And they're like, obviously tell you

to stand up, and you're hooked on,

and then you're right, right, you…

I think I was third in the stick, and

it was like basically a standby go.

Mm. Standby go, and I, I just

remember giving them the standby

go, and I just fucking went for it.

Eyes closed, fucking limbs everywhere.

You meant to exit with your arms

and legs tucked in, but I just

come out like a bag of shit.

Opened my eyes, looked up,

got twists.

I was like, "Oh, happy days."

Kicked out a twist, all right,

and then released my kit.

I was like, "This is fucking

awesome." And then, yeah- That's-

landed, and the RAF guy was like,

"How'd you find it?" I was, "This

was fucking sick." And then, yeah,

the, and then did- No accident?

No, funny enough.

No, yeah, did all right.

Wow, shock.

Makes sense.

Cheers, mate.

And then, yeah, did another six jumps,

and I got two jumps out the Herc.

And man, that's fucking awesome.

That's really cool.

It, it's a different experience

and 'cause it's more air speed.

As you jump out, you're fucking,

you're, you're getting launched.

You're like literally

90 degrees in the air.

You're seeing ground, and

yeah, it's fucking cool.

It's really cool.

Love it.

You also got to do a pretty cool memorial

jump as well, didn't you- Yeah, man

during your career, which was- Yeah,

yeah … wild, jumping into Arnhem.

Yeah, yeah.

And, I've absolutely

privileged to jump in there.

I got to jump with the Polish and germs

for that, which is ironic but yeah, just

to jump in Arnhem to go out drinking with

a load of, load of airborne, airborne lads

and airborne veterans as well, getting

to speak to some of the veterans just…

And they're telling the stories about

how they used to, they were running down

certain verges, getting chased by Germans.

Yeah, well cool.

Well cool, man.

Yeah, to be there.

And, and the Dutch, I tell you

what, the Dutch are fucking amazing.

They love the Brits, and they,

they always do it, every year

they'll do the memorial jump, and

if it's, it's worth a good piss up.

Nice.

Yeah.

Love it, man.

Was that probably your, your

highlight jump of your career?

Or off the side of a mountain where

you then- No, no … just- Arnhem.

Yeah, Arnhem.

Wicked, man … well, yeah, I'd

say w- that memorial jump, I'd say.

Wicked.

You also, whilst you were serving,

you picked up pretty quickly, you got-

Yeah … your Lance Jack quite quickly.

Yeah, yeah.

You were, flying with your career.

Yeah.

Things took a unexpected turn

when your ex got pregnant.

Yeah.

It was a bit of a shock to the system.

Come back, come back from

holiday and yeah, she fell

pregnant, and I was like, mega.

And I always said to myself "If I

have kids, I'd have, I'd leave the

army 'cause I'd, I'd wanna be there."

Obviously with my past now,

I wanna be there for my kids.

Yeah.

So it took me… She fell pregnant,

and then obviously my little

girl was born- I was just like,

"I'm gonna fucking sign off.

Fuck this." And the sergeant

was like, "No, don't do that.

There's a posting come up for Never Raven.

Go and do that, and then

just have a think about it."

So I was like, "All right,

sound." And yeah, got posted to

Nevers which is a s- the skydiver

center for adventure training.

Yeah.

And it's, yeah, best

year of my life, mate.

Best year of my life.

I got to skydive.

It was like a 9:00 to 5:00 job, and

I got my weekends, so I was like,

"I'm signing off." Yeah.

Yeah.

I was just like, it- I can't,

I can't go from this back to

unit … literally, yeah, I was like,

"I can't go back to unit." Yeah.

I was, like, living a life of a civvy

in a way because it was just I turn

up to work, do the stuff, go home.

And I was, I got to s-

see my daughter every day.

So I was like, yeah.

And I remember doing it.

We sat there for one brief, and the

sergeant major, he, Dave Eatock,

he's a l- I like, I like Dave, but

there's a morning where he come in,

he was kicking off about our bins.

And I was sitting there, I was

like, "Fuck this shit." Yeah.

I was just like, "Why you, why am

I getting told off about bins?"

So after the brief, I went on the

computer, did the seven clicks to heaven.

Yeah.

And one of the lads, he was like,

"What you doing, Freeze?" I was like,

"Signing off." He's like, "You can't.

You need an interview." I

was like, "Watch me." Did it.

Did it.

Did it, and I went to the sergeant.

I was like, "Yeah, I've, I've signed off."

And he's like, "Fucking hell, Freeze."

He's like, "Why, why, why have you done

that?" I was like, "Just had enough." He's

like, "I'm gonna have to send you back

to your unit." I was like, "Yeah, sound."

I was like, "No pr- no dramas." Yeah.

Went back to my unit.

My sergeant major, I spoke to him, he's

like, "Well, I didn't send you back.

Go back up there and stay up there." So

I did the whole, my last year at Nevers.

That's sick.

I was like, "Sound." That's so cool.

Yeah.

And then I'd, it, I didn't, I, with that

last year, I weren't like one of those

"Fuck you guys, I'm not doing anything."

I got stuck in and, and still helped out.

Yeah.

And the OC was like, "Do

you wanna come to America?"

I was like, "Yeah." Nice.

"Yeah, man." I got to jump in

America, and yeah, ended up getting

like 220 jumps of skydiving.

So sick.

And, oh mate, it was

fucking… I miss skydiving.

That's one thing I need to get back into.

It's fucking cool.

Y- when you jump out with, like, all your

lads, and you got like a, you… Yeah,

yeah, it's fucking cool I'm, I'm jealous.

Although I'm also scared

of heights, so I'm not.

And like what… I'm like- You

con- you can conquer it though.

It's, You'd be surprised, if you

jumped it, you'd probably conquer it.

So I, I think I'd, I'd be able to do it,

and if something gets a bit scary, I'm

like, "What's the worst that can happen?

I die.

Oh, well." Yeah.

But it's the, the thought of

knowing that, that there's no

middle ground really, is there?

No.

If, if something goes wrong, you're dead.

If I have a crash- Yeah, you've got

your reserve, but if- If I have a crash

in a car, I'm probably gonna be okay.

But you won't know about it, 'cause

you're going about 120 miles per hour,

so you're gonna- And it's, yeah, I know.

And for them, like 100, like what?

Seconds really from falling to being like,

"That ground's getting a close," I'll be

like, "I could have been doing something

else now." And then that's it done.

See you later.

There's nothing else that's

really so absolute, is there?

No.

Oh, no.

It's, It's and it's-

And I think that's- Yeah

that's what gets me is that if

it goes wrong, it's going wrong.

Yeah.

But you could argue, well, a plane, if

it goes wrong it's you know, there's

not really anything coming out of that.

But yeah, and I imagine there's

not really that many skydiving

accidents, is there really?

Don't, don't, don't tell me this.

Don't tell me 'cause

I might do it one day.

Oh, I've just lost- There's no skydiv-

I've just lost my mate, so yeah.

There's no, there's no skydiving

accidents, so it doesn't happen.

But honestly, like you know

yourself jumping off a, a

cliff and smashing yourself up.

Jimmy Elliott had a

bad skydiving accident.

Yeah.

And- I've just, I've

just lost my mate Chaz.

Oh, man.

Wingsuit.

Sorry to hear that.

Rest, rest in peace, Chaz.

It's- But yeah, it's it's

not always like that.

It's yeah.

Yeah.

It, it's just, yeah.

It… And the thing is it's weird.

I don't care if I die.

If I died tomorrow, I'd look back, and I

had a chance to look back at my life- 100%

… I'd be like, "My life's been cool."

Yeah, man.

Which is why buy the cars, do the

holidays- Yeah, yeah … enjoy

the here and now, and I'd be cool.

I'd be cool if I died today.

Like- Yeah … that's, that's cool.

I've done a lot.

I've, I've, I can say, happily say

I've done a lot to say, yeah, happy.

Yeah, absolutely.

But I don't wanna die

from being in a plane.

Or looking over the edge of a car park.

I'm like, "Whoa, mate.

Nah, this is… Nah, done." I look

out my bedroom window and I'm like,

"Nah." "It's a bit high up." I

couldn't even be a window cleaner, bro.

Yeah.

Nah, nah.

I get worried walking up in our

rack and getting boxes down.

I look down- Oh, mate, I love

it … I'm like, "Oh, mate."

I love being up top and being

like looking down type, yeah.

Nah, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a ground person.

Yeah, fair.

Hard.

Fair.

Hard.

So you were getting out of army.

Mm … what was lined up for you?

Yeah.

Civvy street, which was a fucking shock.

It… Yeah The grass can be

greener, but it, I think you've

got to make it greener with that.

Your grass is only

greener if you water it.

100%, mate.

100%. You can't, you can't just… Don't

get me wrong, some people do fall into

it really well, and some people struggle.

But yeah, I've, I got into a job where

it was like fire and security engineer.

I thought, "Nice little trade,"

"It'll do me really well."

And it, it, it was meant to be locally

so I could get home, see my daughter.

That business thought it'd be clever

to start sending me down to London,

so I'd be up at fucking 4:30 in the

morning, get into London for 8:00, work

all day, and then get back for 8:00.

And what was this job doing?

Fire and security, so like the

fire alarms, burglar alarms, and

it was like in schools and stuff.

And most of the work was in central

London, like around Islington and

that, which was a fucking nightmare.

And I was paid- Long days … yeah, and

I was paid minimum wage for it, so I was

just like, I did a month of that, and

I was just like, "See you later." Yeah.

See ya.

Yeah.

Done.

You went to be a window cleaner?

Yeah , and I fucking loved it.

It was cushty.

Nine, 9:00 to 3:00, cushty job.

Did a w- window cleaning, and then

one day my resettlement officer

called me, and she was like, "How

you getting on?" I was like, "Civvy

life." I was just like, "Yeah, it's

cushty, window cleaning." She was like,

"Why the fuck you window cleaning?"

Well, didn't say that, but yeah, she

was like, "Why you window cleaning?"

"What've you got else got lined up?

You got any interview lined up?" I

was like, "Yeah, got one with Saab for

the test kit, and then the other one's

the ambulance service," which was like

patient, patient transport service.

She was like, "Right, go for

those and see how you get on."

My first interview was with the ambulance

service with, and spoke to them.

They were like, "Yeah, you're brilliant.

Do you want a job?" I was just like,

"Shit." I was like, "Yeah, all right."

So I took the job for the patient

transport service and got in, did the

training for that, and it's basically

the patient transport service is

like a taxi service for the sick and

injured who can't get to hospital.

Did that for six months,

and I was like, bored.

And I, I at the time did some

jobs with the frontline lot.

I was like, and then applied

for ECA, not paramedic, ECA.

And just for those that

don't know, ECA is?

Emergency care assistant, so basically

like your paramedic's buddy, so

doing like the bits they need while

they're doing their bits Yeah.

Yeah, really cool job And you saw

quite a lot of stuff there, like

from someone dying, cardiac arrest,

AIDS- Fucking all sorts, mate.

Yeah You had a lot- Oh, mate,

yeah … lots of stuff to deal with.

Yeah, fucking hell.

I forgot about that one.

Yeah, it is… I, I take my hat

off to the people that do the job.

It's a seriously demanding job.

It, it takes its toll

mentally and physically.

The hours and just what you see.

I remember my first day,

I got a cardiac arrest.

Yeah, that was fucking… It was on

Basingstoke platform, Basingstoke

Train Station, platform two.

Yeah, some guy.

I was just like… And this was during

COVID as well, so you're wearing

the white, white suits, trying to

protect yourself, if it even worked.

Yeah, man, but I got to experience

life, and I got to learn how to

communicate to people and work as a team.

It puts you in positions where you've

really gotta think for yourself,

especially when the paramedic's so

focused on patient, you've gotta

start thinking, "How am I gonna get

this patient out of this house?"

And they, they could be covered in their

own shit and crammed up inside a toilet.

They could be in… And you'd be surprised

what people get themselves into, and

you've, yeah, you've really gotta think

on the, on your feet and be proactive for

your paramedic to make their life easier.

Yeah.

Did you want to be a paramedic as well?

Yeah, I did, mate.

I did.

I wanted… I, like, when I was

doing the job, I really loved

it, and I was really keen.

And they, at the time, SCAS, they

brought out a scheme where you could do

apprenticeships in-house apprenticeships.

So I was like, "Happy days." I think I

got to my second year, I looked into it,

and I was just like, "It's a fuck around."

I started seeing the bullshit

parts of the ambulance service.

Yeah.

And but the, the, the NHS is good.

The people on the frontline are

really amazing, but there's so

much wrong with the service.

There's so much money that

gets pumped into it, but it

doesn't go to the right regions.

Yeah.

And it's really annoying

because it's a good service.

And so th- this was, like, 2020.

What were you paid as an ECA?

23 grand a year Crazy 23 grand a year

And- Think about it, yeah … and

okay, I get it, you're not a paramedic,

but you're still there, and with no

insult meant to anyone, so would it be

fair to say you, you're essentially like

a glorified first aider- Pretty much

… who's there to support a paramedic?

Yeah, and- Which- … we, we did a lot.

I think we did a lot beyond our

scope to help the paramedic.

We didn't- Abs- and a- and that's it,

and it's also I said it with all due

respect, not like a I'm putting him

down saying glorified, but you're not,

you're not trained as a paramedic is.

No.

You don't have a degree in, in

medicine or anything like this.

Yeah.

But still 23 grand seems woefully

underpaid- … for the job that you're

expected to do, and not just the job

you're expected to do and the knowledge

you have to carry, but you know, the

emotional stress and strain that you

have to have in doing so is, is a lot.

It's a lot to take on, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I remember my first cardi- third cardiac

arrest, that was a m- emotional toll

on me, but, I, it took me a while to

adjust to understand life and death.

But yeah, the shit you see, and like

you mentioned about the job where

we got a lady who was raped and

yeah, that was a horrendous scene.

She was caked in blood.

She didn't want any male, male to touch

her, which is understandable, and she did

it right next to the a club in Andover.

And honestly, she was… I've never

seen so much fear in someone's eye.

Yeah.

No, it was fucking brutal, mate.

And it's, it's, yeah, feel for her.

I hope she's all right

You evidently didn't stay as a ECA.

No.

And you you joined the fire service.

Yeah.

What was your… Why did

you want to transition?

I think because of the

para- I looked at the

paramedic side, I was like, I

think it just wasn't worth it.

For me, it just wasn't amount of time

and effort you've got to put into it,

and the way the, the trust was treating

the students who were doing it, I was

just like, "No." And luckily, a good

mate of mine, Tim Swanson, he, he,

he was always pestering me, going,

"You gotta join the fire service.

You gotta join the fire…" 'Cause he got

in when he was in the army. So he's always

tell- telling me about it, and he said,

"Look, they're opening up recruitment.

Apply for it." So at the…

it come at the right time.

Yeah.

So I emailed the recruitment and then went

from there, and yeah, got in first time.

Nice.

Yeah, man.

It's really, yeah, really lucky,

'cause a lot of people fail it.

I think one of the really good

things with the fire service is

you know your life- Yeah … a

year in advance almost, don't you?

Like- Oh, you, all, your whole

career … you can plan so much.

You know exactly what you're doing.

You stick with one…

Yeah, exactly that.

Yeah.

Yeah, you got a routine to yourself.

You know when you're starting,

when you're sort of finishing.

But yeah, you know what days

you're working, and then you

can plan your whole life.

Whereas the ambulance service, you

could do four weeks rou- routine, and

then you could do three weeks relief.

Yeah.

And the relief is like just random shifts,

and you don't know until a month before.

Yeah.

You can't plan your life.

No, no.

So that, that with poor money,

you're like, "Pff." Yeah.

It's stupid.

You're weighing up what to do, and it's-

Exactly, yeah … yeah, absolutely.

And evidently your pay is a lot

better in the fire service- Yeah

as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's, yeah, it's… Yeah, I

don't, I can happily pay my bills.

Whereas that I, I'd ha- with the

ambulance service, I was looking to

do a second job just to help get by.

Yeah, which is wild, there to- It's crazy

… literally help save people's lives.

Yeah.

Be there for this poor woman.

And you gotta get a second

job to pay your bills.

Yeah, man.

23 grand, you might as well be on doll.

Yeah, literally.

Yeah.

It's yeah, it's wild.

Arguably, fire service carries a higher

degree of risk, 'cause, and it's, I think

chatting to you before, it's fire service,

a fireman does what a fireman- Yeah

does, and it's exactly what we anticipate.

So I'll ask you some questions, Fraze.

Have you done a fire?

Oh, yeah.

Have you done a cat?

Yeah.

Not, not in a tree, though.

Oh, that's not what I meant.

No.

Where was the cat?

Huh?

Where was the cat?

No, I've had one in the river one in

a fridge- … and one stuck in a car.

So you're basically a vet. Yeah.

So okay, we've done that.

Have you attended RTAs

and had to cut people out?

No.

Well, I've… The one big

job… No, I missed that one.

Yeah.

Oh, so you're not a real firefighter.

No, yeah, I'm not a real firefighter.

Not a real firefighter.

The cat thing.

No.

Where, where does this cat thing

come from, like firefighters?

Is it 'cause you've got big ladders?

Yeah, yeah, and people do- That's

literally- … people do call it,

and you're like, "Well, the cat can

get themselves out a tree." Yeah.

Just leave it.

Literally just leave it.

The cats are fine.

Yeah.

They've got… So they, they can survive.

But it's an actual thing that

you've had to go to and- Yeah

not for a tree, but saving cats.

Just, yeah.

The RSPCA won't come out 'cause

it's like, "Oh, it's not our

job." It kind of is, though.

Yeah.

Literally.

Literally what you're

meant to be there for, but.

Yeah, I know, mate.

Yeah, it's there, yeah.

So you're telling me that you're

still in the fire service now.

Yeah, still serving.

You've been in for, what,

three and a bit years?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Been a while.

Still loving it?

Yeah, love it, mate.

Good.

It's hard work.

This year's been hard with the

grass fires, but yeah, love it.

Yeah.

The, yeah- It's been savage … and

some, some days, you know, because

y- you also, you found a, evidently

a passion for photography and

videography as well, haven't you?

Absolutely, mate.

Yeah.

Your photography stuff, so you're

also a wedding photographer as well.

You do a lot of shoots

for other people as well.

Yeah.

How did that come about?

I started it back in

the ambulance service.

Obviously, I had a bit of a mental

health crisis, and I just needed

passion, needed a, like a hobby to find.

And for some reason, I

just liked photography.

I picked up a camera, went out one

night, got some really cool photos, and

I was like, "Fucking love this." And

w- with my mental health crisis, my,

my dad's mate was like, "Look, if you

start doing 20 minutes a day, just do

some fizz when you have your anxiety.

Just do that, and it'll help you."

So I did that, and then I used

that method with photography.

So I used that an hour every

evening, just studied photography.

And then, yeah, from

there, built up as a hobby.

Then started doing family shoots

with, Or pet shoots, family shoots.

And, and then a friend was like,

"Do you wanna do, shoot a wedding?"

I was like, "Yeah." Well, no, to

start with, I was like, "Ha, sod that.

It's too much pressure." Yeah.

And then she asked again, and I

was like, "Yeah, I'll, I'll go.

I'll give it a go." Yeah.

And loved it, and then it took me

a year or two, and then my missus,

Chloe, she was just like, "Start

as a business." We worked out a

name, build it up, build a website.

Literally, I started with

a camera, one camera.

And now we've got three.

I've got three cameras.

I've got lights.

I'm literally a l- a mini production.

Yeah, it's crazy, mate.

And just to confirm there's no one else

behind the camera today, so you're-

Literally … which is why headphones

are here in case of it they're needed.

You're doing podcast and

producing at the same time.

Fucking crazy, innit?

Mixing board.

Is that what it's called?

Yeah.

It's yeah.

Looks like a DJ desk.

Can I touch stuff, or?

No, please don't.

Will I break that?

Okay, I won't touch it.

You change your voice if you want.

We'll start "If this is all

Daleky and not in vision-

and there's no mics recording,

then it's…" Did you hear that?

Let us know as well in the comments

what you thought of our podcast so far.

Yeah.

I think they, they've

been pretty damn cool.

Yeah, yeah.

And think Fraser's done a, a

wicked, wicked job of doing so.

I've got a note on here about a

person under a train and still alive.

Oh, yeah.

And you you had a commendation for this.

No, no.

No, that's a different job.

Oh, sorry.

So the person under the

train, that was, yeah, insane.

So obviously we turn up to jobs where

it get called one unders, basically

a person who's jumped i- in front

of a train, and obviously majority

of the time the sight's not pretty.

But this job, the… I, I jumped on

early for the red watch to get someone

away, and we got called literally

five minutes later, got the job, come

through, went to the tube station, and

the staff were like, "Look, a guy's

jumped in front of a train. We dunno

where he is." So we're all looking.

I, I end up walking all the way down

to the end of the train and see these

pair of feet, and he's kicking about.

I was like, "Well, he's there,"

and he's, he's still alive.

He's still talking.

And yeah, obviously, and it,

it just, it turns chaotic.

You got police, ambulance service, TFL lot

just all on the platform, fire service,

and they all wanna rescue this guy.

We all get un- a few of us get under the

train with him, and he's literally on

his back holding onto the axle with his

hands like that, and he's p- he's foreign.

And he… I was like, "Mate, let go of it.

We need to get you out." And heart,

the lot, the heart lot were like,

"No, we need to get paramedics in.

We need to do assessment under the,

under the train for him." And I was

like, "Surely it's easier to get him

out of the train and in, from under

the, or, from under the train onto the

board, and then a load of people can

get around him 'cause there's more- Mm

more space to work on him." So I was

like, "Fuck this." So I managed to get

him let go, and he started crawling back.

He then got onto the, the scoop board.

They put him on a stretcher, and he had,

watching him, he had a pneumothorax, which

is like a basically a chest wound, and

basically his chest was like collapsing

one side as he was breathing in.

And yeah, watch… It was pretty

cool watching the doctors go

through his armpit to puncture the

sac to help release the pressure.

But yeah, I think he survived.

Wow.

Yeah, man.

No, it's a really cool job.

It, it- Tell us about your commendation.

That one?

Falling through stairs.

Jesus Christ, yeah.

So it was during Diwali, and

the lads, the lads were like,

before it were like, "Mate,

Diwali's carnage." It i- and it is.

The, the days building up to it, you're

looking out in the street, and there's

like this weird like smog, and it's

from people setting off fireworks and

bonfires, and it goes on all week, and

on the final day it's like a massive…

It's just like the blitz where everyone's

just setting off fireworks everywhere.

And if you, if you want a fucking

just have a look around Hounslow,

Southall area, it's carnage.

People are holding up fireworks

above their heads and everything.

And during this night, it was literally

the moment we started shift we were going

back-to-back with jobs of like fireworks,

smoke alarms, people having bonfires

on concrete slabs, all this stuff.

So it's carnage already, and I think we

got to about half 10, 10 o'clock at night.

We were sorting a vehicle out, and

the bells went off, so we're like,

"Right, let's get going." We got into

the truck, and this… Usually when the

control comes over the radio, they're

quite calm, collected on the radio.

And this one, she sounded really anxious.

She was like, "Look, it's a house

fire. Persons repor- persons reported.

Multiple calls." And when you get

that, you know it's a proper job.

Yeah.

And obviously I was, I was only six

months into the job when this happened,

so it's all fairly still new to me, but

I could hear this was a serious job.

On the truck you got Jack in

command, Brendan's driving,

Sophie's in the middle ECO, and then

it's me and Chris, initial B BA.

Whereas we got kitted up and,

say like this is like the

row of seats in the truck.

On the opposite side you've

got the seat with a BA set.

Me and Chris got into our

seats, got our BA sets.

Where the job was from our station

was three minutes away, which was

really good driving from Brendan.

We managed to get kitted up,

ready to go before we got there.

I remember sitting in the opposite seat.

We turned up on scene, and

I could just see this orange

glow come off the buildings.

I look out the window, and literally

it was 20, a good 20-foot foot

flames coming out of all the

windows on this house mid-terrace.

I remember jumping out of the,

the door of the truck, coming out,

and this person come up to me.

He's like, "My kids, my kids

are in the house." Yeah.

And I, I just remember being tunnel

visioned onto this house in flames.

Went… I grabbed the hose reel, went

down And I was just, I, I immediately

dropped down to my knees, running at Jack

going, "Get some fucking water on it.

Get some water on it." I was like,

"Yeah, we need the fucking pump on."

I was like… And then we got our BA mask

on, done that, gloves and then, and then

managed to start getting the water on.

The front of the house, you've got

ground floor, you've got a doorway

with a bit of a porch with a gas box.

The door's gone, completely

fucking blown out.

The gas box's gone, blown out,

shooting out green flames.

And then you got a

window with a PVC bottom.

That's all blown out.

First floor, you've got a

window above the doorway.

That's all gone, flames coming out.

And then you've got a massive double

window and that's all gone as well.

So obviously I'm on my knees

thinking, "How the fuck am I

gonna get, gonna get into here?"

I just… And that was, I, I think

that was my most scariest moment of my

life because I was like, my- I really

felt my fight or flight system kick in.

I was really like, I, I,

100% I, I didn't wanna go in.

I was like, "Fuck this." Yeah, in my

head, I was like, "Fuck this." I was

watching Chris move the debris out

the way, trying to find a way in.

You got a gas box kicking green

flame at us, so I was, I was

battling that with a hose.

And, and then my training sort of kicked

in, so I was like, "Right, I need to get

the fucking flames down on the ground

floor to get in." And I remember a lesson

where you, you shoot the hose into…

You, you hit it high enough into the

ceiling, far enough into the corner, it

can hit and then like bat the flames.

And I did that, and it did.

It li- it, weird, it

literally just cut off.

It was like the gas someone just

cut the gas off to the building.

So we managed to gain entries to

the ground floor, and it went from

this like massive chaos to going

into this room where it's like full

of smoke and just this eeriness.

And you know like the film Insidious,

where he goes into like the other,

other realm and it's like smoky, dark.

It was like that.

And I was going in, and I… When you

do building, when you go into buildings,

you try and stick to a wall, and then you

start searching obviously, yeah, a bit

before that we got some information that

the kids and the family are upstairs.

So we're like, "Okay, we need to go

upstairs and find this, the family."

And so we got into the house.

We st- I, we stuck to the left hand.

I remember thinking "Where the fuck are

these stairs?" And as I thought that, this

orange glow come through the smoke, and I

was like, "Stairs are there." So we went

left-hand wall, went up to the stairs.

Remember going on the stairs, and

there's just debris everywhere, and I

was taking my time sweeping the stairs

to make sure I got a strong footing.

I remember Chris going, "Frase, hurry

the fuck up." And I was like, "Yeah."

But at the same time, I'm trying to

battle flames downstairs to manage our

access, and then obviously tackle what

was, what was upstairs, which was just

fucking engulfed in fucking flames.

A- and with fires you got there's

stages where it's called develop,

fully developed, and then decay.

And I think we just got past the fully

developed stage, it was hitting de- the

decay stage, but it was still fucking hot.

So I remember going up the stairs,

spraying the jet, and then Sophie

come over the radio, and she was

like, "Guys, just manage your water."

I was like, "Motherfucker, I'm like

in 1,000 degrees here." I need to

use as much water as I wanted to.

We got onto the landing.

I remember being at the top of the stairs.

And you got to the left you got bathroom.

Straight ahead was be- bedroom two.

Bit to the right but on the same

wall was bedroom one, and then

to our right was bedroom three.

I remember coming onto the landing.

I went into bedroom two,

and it was a kid's bed.

You got a kid's bed straight ahead of me.

You got a little kid's

wardrobe to the left.

That was all just fucking

up in flames, fucking gone.

And behind me, Chris, he was

searching the bathroom at that time.

He couldn't find anything.

He then tapped my shoulder.

I moved onto the landing.

I was on the landing, and from

training school they're like, "Yeah,

if you drop down to your knees,"

obviously it's, heat rises so it's

meant to be cooler down below.

But we're upstairs, the floor's on

fucking fire, everything else, and

it, the heat was so fucking intense.

I dropped down to my kne- I pulsed

the floor as much as possible

to try and cool that down.

Dropped down to my knees.

Yeah, and then I was just like sitting

there dealing with like bedroom one

and three, and I was like, "This

is fucking intense." My head, my

neck, just everywhere was burning.

My gloves, my feet, like like the…

I can't, it's so hard to

describe the, the… It's like a

thousand bees just stinging you.

It's fucking painful.

But you gotta be able to still work

in it and still be able to… You,

you're going there to rescue someone's

family yeah, and it's fucking… You

still gotta be able to… There's so

much process to a BA where it's not

just wearing a mask and going in.

We was quite lucky 'cause

the visibility was strong.

You could go in there with a smoke-filled

room at the same temperatures, and you,

you've gotta feel your way around the

room and be able to find a body, and it's

fucking… It's one of the most intense

fucking roles of a- of the job ever.

Any- I was getting carried away there.

And yeah, and I remember Chris going,

"Mate, it's too fucking ho- hot.

We n- we need to w- withdraw." I

remember being like, "Yeah, 100%."

We with- withdrew down the stairs,

went back to Jack, and J- and Jack

was like, "Any info?" We was like,

"Mate, it's too hot." He's like, "All

right." I want to be going, "Get back

up…" And he went, "Get back up there

with a 45," which is a bigger jet.

And I remember being… Y- in

the army days where you're like,

you do it on a fifth session.

You've done, just done a five,

like six-mile run, and then Pete's

always "Right, we're gonna go again.

We're gonna two-mile sprint." You're

like, "Fucking hell, we've gotta go

again." Your mental state's just like you

thought yous finished, but you're not.

You gotta keep going.

That… It was one of those moments.

I was just like, "Fuck's sake." I was

like, "Yeah, happy." So grabbed the 45,

and lucky a second crew arrived at this

time, and they were dealing the floor,

the fire on the floor at the time.

We swapped jets, grabbed the

45, went back upstairs, and

this time got to the landing.

The hose snagged.

I was like, "Chris, can you fucking

get some more hose?" And he was

like shouting to the other crew.

He was like, "More hose, more hose."

And I was trying to fucking pull it.

And I think it was a bit of a godsend

really because as, as I was trying to

push forward, my left foot went through

the landing, and I was like, "Fuck this."

I was like, "Chris, the floor's not safe.

The floor's gonna go." So he was like,

"Yeah, happy." He withdrew downstairs.

I followed suit.

I was going backwards w- 'cause the, the

45's a lot bigger, and I wa- 45 is a,

the, the size of the hose, so 45 mil.

I was going down with the branch

and literally took this step, and

I remember Chris going, "Freeze."

And as he said that, my, I,

my foot went through the step.

I fell backwards.

And obviously I've got a 15K BA set

with obviously all, all the kit.

So that en- took me going backwards.

Unfortunately, I landed on Chris.

Unfortunately for Chris, yeah,

I landed on top of him, so I

had a bit of a soft landing.

I remember getting up, and

I remember my head burning.

I was like, "What the fuck?

My helmet come off." I was like,

"For fuck's sake." I looked down.

Chris is like telling me to get up.

He had my helmet in his hand.

I was like, "Chris, get the fuck

up. Let's go." And that's it.

I picked him up.

When we ran out, I was like, "Jack,

it is too fucking dangerous in

there." And yeah, unfortunately

we couldn't get to the family.

It took- Five beer crews to

find the, the family and kids?

There, there was six.

Yeah, so three kids, three f- three adults

And it's while you're trying to find them,

that, there's a little bit of you thinking

with all your kit and equipment on- Hmm

… and your skin's burning- Yeah … there's

a little bit of you thinking we're, this

is, we're not going to save the family.

We're, we're going to bring

them- You don't know … out.

Y- y- you hear stories like people being

in these little pockets in the house

where they've been, like, the safest.

Wow.

And the moment it… And you don't

wanna, y- you don't wanna live with

knowing you didn't make an effort.

Yeah.

We could have made that decision

going, "No, we're not going in there.

It's not safe," before

even going in there.

Yeah.

But we could have lived with our

life saying, what if they- What

if … what if, what if Fire

Investigation went in and gone, "Oh,

the family were in this pocket"?

Do you know what I mean?

We would've lived our life knowing

like- Yeah … yeah, we w- I,

I would've fucking goad, mate.

But you did everything

that you could have.

Yeah, man.

There was, I think, and all my training

from fire service, like BA wear and the

army, I think paid off Unfortunately on

this, this occasion the family- Yeah,

man … didn't- I, that's because the fire

started 20 minutes before we got called.

Yeah.

So it was going some.

If they'd called you straight away- Yeah

… they would've probably still been there.

Literally.

You would've been able to get

up to them and, and have it, so.

Yeah.

If you see a fire or there's anything

there- Literally, mate … whether

you think you're wasting 999's

time, better to, better to call it

in and, "It's nothing, don't worry.

You're not gonna get told

off, are you?" No, mate.

But- No, no … suspected fire,

suspected whatever it is, what,

whichever service you need, you're

better to call them th- than not.

And, and the 999 services, frontline

emergency services are exceptional

in this country, aren't they?

Yeah, man.

Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, yeah, I definitely

earned my wage that night.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's I know with the fire service, we

don't experience as much as the police and

ambulance, but situations like that, man,

yeah, it's… I was like, "Fucking hell."

And even, so afterwards we're getting

interviewed by the group commanders and

that, and a lot of them said "Yeah, that

was near enough near a Grenfell job."

Wow.

Yeah, man.

And that was, Grenfell was awful.

Oh, that's horrendous, yeah.

And they said, yeah, it's

very rare, they said it's very

rare to get a job like that.

So I was like, "Mega, I'm six months into

the job." Yeah, done everything I can.

How does that play on your,

your mental health now?

Is it six people passed away there?

Yeah.

Yeah, six.

And did you, once the, the fire was under

control who goes in to get the bodies?

So obviously they, I think they left them

for fire investigation to start with.

I think it's, we don't, we don't collect.

I think it's undertakers.

I think it, yeah, the funeral directors.

They collect them, but

they would've been bones.

Wow.

Yeah, man, they, honestly, it

plaster board and everything off

the r- off the roofs, off the

ceilings that were just gone.

It's debris everywhere, but

that's because of the, the design.

They, they, they must've, the

owners must have designed the house,

because what happened was, we have

a house fire, the moment you've got

windows and doorways open, it vents.

Yeah.

So, and depending on what, what way the

wind's going- More oxygen is gonna feed

the fire Yeah And it's, it's like a jet.

Yeah.

And obviously down below, on the

ground floor, it was just open plan.

And with the PVC window, wind

was just going through that and

jetting out to the back, which

just obviously lit up the house.

A- any advice for people

that do have a fire?

So, obviously 999, but-

Yeah … windows, doors shut.

Oh, if you see a fire- Get

out … yeah, don't fight it.

Yeah.

Shut the door and get out.

Yeah.

And yeah, 999 straight away.

You'll… You'd be surprised

how much a door is effective.

We turn up to jobs and it's, you've

got a hallway nice and clean.

Open up a door, and it's all charred,

smoke-filled, and you're just like,

"Man, door, doors are un- unbelievable

bits of kit." Ju- just from shutting

the door- Literally, mate … it'll

literally save your- Yeah … your

house and your, your family's lives.

Literally.

Literally that, mate, yeah.

But yeah, mentally, that

night I was like, "Jesus."

When we got home, I was just

like… And it took me a couple

of months to g- get over it.

I was driving to work, constantly

think about it, but I was a bit more

self-aware about myself of, from my past.

So I was a bit more self-aware

that I knew I'd be affected by it.

So I got a bit therapy

from it and yeah, right.

How is the fire service

with, with these things?

There's a lot of support?

Yeah.

Yeah, it's good, mate.

And obviously we've got the Firefighter

Charity, which are really good as well.

They're really supportive.

So yeah, we've got a lot of

support for it because they know

it's, it's not, it's nothing new.

Yeah.

They all go through it.

Good.

Yeah, man.

Some of this may be still quite emotional,

but a nice coming towards the end of it.

Like- Yeah … in November '25

you launched the Veterans Project.

Yeah, man.

That's fucking cool.

It was.

Tell us a bit more about it.

Yeah.

Oh, it's just- With the

photography stuff and the business

and that, it's always been…

It was always focused on other

people's stuff, and I'm, I, I

love doing it for other people.

It's, it's, the photography

stuff's my, my therapy.

It's my excuse to focus on

something else and just, yeah.

But it, it, with a business, it

stops you focusing on your own stuff.

So I remember one day, w- me

and my missus, we went to the

Britain War Memorial in Normandy.

Yeah.

And I seen a little f- cool thing about

veterans talking about their stories

and that, and I was like, "I wanna

do something like this." And I said

to my missus "This is really cool."

"I wanna do something similar." And

then, yeah, I was like,

"Fucking let's do it."

And spoke to you about it, didn't I?

Yeah.

And y- I was like, "I wanna do a lot

of veterans projects for remembrance."

So I did f- professional photos.

And I wanted to be respectful about

it, and I know with it, a lot of people

don't like to talk about their stories,

which baffles me because everyone should

be proud of what they've done with

the service in the forces and that.

Everyone's, everyone's done

something c- for this country.

I think everyone's got a story

to tell of what they've done.

It's just, it… when I was younger,

it was the stories that got me to join.

Yeah.

And I'll, so I was hoping sharing

other people's stories would help

people, wanna join and, and just

show, just keep that pride in it.

It's a, it's a proud thing to be part of.

It's a massive club.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Thank you for including me, and

it was very- No, it's cool, man.

Yeah … very humbling to, to go on it.

It's, I'm not a, personally

a fan of, I don't wear medals

or buries at remembrance.

It's not my thing.

It's time to remember others,

which is no, again, no disrespect

for those that want to remember-

Yeah, yeah … in their own way.

Some maybe make it a bit more about

themselves than, than I personally would,

but you know, it's also… Thinking

about that's the freedom that we have.

There's a choice to remember and

do things how we want to do them

because of those that come before

and have paid the ultimate sacrifice.

I think the way you did the

whole project was brilliant.

Yeah.

And it, it, it remembered everyone there.

We've got a little bit on here,

a note that you gave me, which

is that you've learned things

from Bez to help me in business.

Yeah, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You've, you've always been

a guy to, I've looked up to.

You probably, yeah, I don't say it

enough 'cause your ego will fucking

get too big about it, but- But yeah,

you've always been, you've always been

my go-to guy when I've had a question

about business, and you've a- you've

always put me on a straight and narrow

and been like, "It doesn't work."

And I've admired that a lot yeah.

Well, look at I've seen your business

grow from that small little unit

next to the gym- Yeah … to now

look at us, Do you know what I mean?

You're, you're here in a massive unit-

Yeah … and you're already, you're

probably looking to expand again.

Yeah.

Bursting at the seams and- Literally,

mate … need to move again.

We've been in this unit for- It's

fucking class … this very house

for- So yeah, why, why- … 10

months … why wouldn't I?

Like- Yeah.

I think- … and that's, I think a

lot of people… I don't, I don't

understand why people- Are so against

other people being successful,

especially the veteran community.

I just don't understand it.

You should be supporting each other.

We've all been through the same thing.

We're part of- We're just one massive

family now, so support each other.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I couldn't agree more.

Couldn't agree more.

There's, I think there's a lot of like-

With my friends, with you as well, I'm

not afraid to just tell you how it is.

No.

If you come to me and say that, I'm like,

"You're not a real friend if you just

tell- you agree with everything y- your

mate say. That's not… Being a friend is

actually that's shit." Yeah, literally.

What are you doing?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What are you playing at, mate?

Like- When we first started this

podcast and you was like, "Oh, how,

how am I gonna interview cushions?"

I was like, "Let the peoples talk." Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

And you was like, "Yeah, cool." Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

I was like, "Oh, sound." Yeah.

You- you're allowed to turn

around and give feedback to

your friend, like- Literally.

If you get- Yeah … if you get like,

Getting offended- It's literally-

because you're giving a bit of feedback.

Oh, like it's y- oh, friends,

what do you think to this

flavor of protein we've done?

I don't like it.

Ah, well, you're not my friend then.

No, you are my friend 'cause you've

given me like- Literally, yeah … actual

feedback on the stuff that we're doing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Wild.

I think one was Teague, who's been on

the podcast as well from Combat Clever

Company, and he was like, "Oh, Bill, what

do you think of this stand I'm doing?" I

was like, "Oh," just wrote back, "shit".

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

It was just so, it was-

Literally … it was awful.

And he was like, "I

guess you don't like it."

I was like, "Bro, it's so bad." I was

like, "Get yourself some tablecloths.

Get yourself some banners.

Have a professional setup.

You don't need to spend loads of money

doing it." And, and he was like, then

I see him at another event, and it

was like, "This looks sick." Yeah.

"Look, look better than ours." I, I,

I, I- And it's- Yeah, like Teague, give

him a shout out 'cause he's got like his

new office space, and it looks smart.

I'm like, yeah, I'm jealous 'cause

my office space I'm like, "What

the fuck?" Like- Yeah, yeah.

It looks cool.

He's… Yeah.

It does look cool.

It does look cool.

And then how the podcast started,

we've got a, we gotta shout out

Jay Cal for this, haven't we?

Yeah, mate.

I chatted to him literally two

days ago, and he was saying…

I was like, you are our inspiration for

doing it, Jay." We came down and we were

supposed to have a 30-second reel- It's

nuts … on sports nutrition for his

daughter, and it was a 25-minute episode.

And we're like- I was panicking,

mate, 'cause like- Yeah … I

was so set up for social media.

So with cameras, like if you're

gonna do social media, you

do obviously the portrait.

So I was like, "Yeah, we're only doing a

fucking 30 second." Had it in portrait,

and then it went on for 25 minutes.

I was like, "Oh, for fuck's sake." Yeah.

I was panicking.

And then you- And I think we

were sat on a bench and two

boxes of creatine- Literally.

Yeah.

I was just like- … with a

tablecloth on them I was so…

Yeah.

Oh, I was like, but that's, that

setup is what's created this setup

with the lights and everything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Crazy.

It's just crazy how it's developed.

Wild.

Wild.

Yeah, man.

Yeah, yeah.

And before we finish, bro,

what's, what's next for Mr.

Fraser Carson, the combat dwarf?

Oh, brilliant.

Now you're fucking… I

honestly don't know, mate.

Honestly don't know.

People keep asking me if I would take this

on full time, and I keep contemplating it.

I don't know.

Really don't know.

I'm, I'm just gonna keep

pushing my videography stuff.

Yeah.

The podcast is, is going really well.

I'm gonna keep pushing this.

I think marketing, I think I'm

gonna do a bit more marketing

with the podcast, help that.

Yeah.

And just keep driving this.

This is like I've, I've

been loving this, mate.

This has been, it's been

one massive project.

Yeah.

And- Just because of the long-term

behind it all, it's really cool.

So yeah, I think the podcast

is the, my main focus.

Nice.

Nice.

And it's… Now, I'm a big, big advocate

for like you shouldn't give unsolicited

advice, but if people like hint to it,

like there's nothing wrong with advice.

It's up to you what you

do with your advice.

I'm always like so worried about,

what if I give someone bad advice and

they act on something I've done and-

Yeah, yeah … my advice was wrong?

And it's but I always think that's how

you get to critical thinking, isn't it?

You said about, "Should I

leave the fire service?"

Yeah.

And I was like, "Absolutely not." Like,

why would you give up your good full-time

wage, a mega pension, to do this?

Okay, you could probably earn

three times what you're earning

now if you went and did full-time

videography, podcast, and photography.

Yeah, yeah.

And I, my, my advice to you is you,

you've got a stable income and just

work more, because you're still young,

people might be in the comments being

like, "No, don't do it. Go full send."

But there's also, you've got a daughter.

You just bought a new house with

your, your lovely partner, Chloe.

Yeah, man.

For me, I like to have a base

level of security on, on what I'm

doing, so if everything goes wrong

tomorrow, you've still got your

firefighting stuff, literally, mate.

Yeah.

The way of the world, I, I think there's

something to be said about having it.

Okay, yeah, you could make something

much bigger if you risk it all,

but then I equally have seen a

lot of friends who have businesses

and they're no longer in business.

Lost their houses- Yeah … lost their

car collections, lost everything- Yeah

because, I don't quite… I

mean, I was all in at one point

and, it's paid off well for me.

Would I do that again now?

No.

Mm. It's too, too much risk for me.

There is, mate.

There's… Yeah.

Don't get me wrong, I see you, PJ, Teague,

all the boys doing their own business, I'm

like, "You boys are fucking smashing it."

Yeah.

Because… But you… I do get

you, you've got to- more time to

focus on this as a, as a sole.

So the videography, photography

stuff is, it's still a hobby for me

at the moment really, even though

I'm fucking flat out with it all.

Yeah.

It's like- Yeah, you say a hobby, like

it's still another- It's a- You, you're

matching your wage again, aren't you- Yeah

in the fire service.

Pretty much.

You're absolutely killing it.

Yeah.

Which is, it's good to see it.

How do you balance relationship and work?

I don't.

It, there's ti- there are times

where work takes over a lot.

Then there are times where

family life takes over.

Like it's, it's just a massive,

like I say, massive pie.

Like you, you put, you give certain

percentages to certain things

during different times, don't you?

Back to Dad, short-term

sacrifice for long-term gain.

Exactly, mate.

He wasn't there a lot when you

were growing up 'cause he was away

in Iraq and doing these things.

You might not get to see

Chloe as much as you want now.

I've seen you bring your daughter into

work, But also, when she's… And again-

Business isn't all about making

money, but money buys opportunity.

Yeah.

'Cause you, the… Just for example,

I'm not saying this is what you do, but

your daughter's getting ready to drive.

I'll pay for your lessons or- Literally

I'll help you out with your car or

y- my parents were very much "You

buy your own car, but we'll pay for

your insurance." I look back now and

think, "Oh, you wouldn't buy me a car.

What?

Mugs." My car was 300 quid and my

insurance was, like, 1,400 quid.

Yeah.

So I'm like, okay, actually,

I got quite a good deal.

For sure.

But at the time, I'm like, I want…

it gives you opportunity to do things.

You get opportunity to

travel, you go on holiday.

Yeah, mom.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, all the stuff you're doing.

I'm a big, big advocate for you.

Yeah.

And you look back when you're, like,

at, at 40 and you're like, "I'm

so glad that I grafted," in there.

And and it, if it doesn't work out,

you're not gonna sit there and be in

your own head, "Oh, what if? What if

I'd done that? What if I'd done that?"

I think for people like us, sat about

having a what if is more damaging and

more dangerous than anything else.

Like I mentioned earlier, I sold one

of my cars now, and I'm like- Yeah

it's the worst thing I've ever done.

It's five years I've not had one of these

kind of cars, and I'm like, I feel lost.

I was just on Auto Trader even before

we started this- Yeah … being

like, "Oh, look, I found this. I

can go there and go and get it this

weekend." And I'm like, but I'm also…

I don't have a weekend off for…

Oh, my God, world's

smallest violin, right?

Yeah.

But I don't have a weekend

off until end of October.

And I'm like… And this, this

year so far, and we're, we're

now in… What are we now?

We're mid, mid-August, and I've had,

I've had three weekends off this year.

But the thing is, I s- with that, and I,

on the same the weekends were slammed.

But sometimes you turn up to

those, those things and you don't

know what opportunities turn

up on those, on your doorstep.

Mate, ex- exactly.

Exactly.

Another thing I was gonna say is

that, if you ever have something

that you don't need, such as cars-

To keep that over putting yourself in the

position where you could be, you care more

about what other people think about you.

Yeah, man.

And, and I do a little bit me thinks,

"Oh, God, people are gonna think that

I'm failing, people are gonna think I'm

doing that", but I'm like, I'm so busy.

I literally… I've been to two

events this year, and that's

been rushed around getting there.

I've done none of the cool

events that I like doing, so

I'm like, "What's the point?"

Yeah.

I, I live quite far away from work.

Yeah.

We found a house that, hopefully might

come off where we're closer down here.

Rachel's looking- Fingers

crossed … new job touch wood.

Touch wood.

I didn't want to move again.

Let's say we, we… our whole plan

was that, we'd move one more time to

our forever home, and that's us done.

Whereas now it looks like we're

gonna have to have a stepping stone.

I know that the house that I showed you,

and it's- Yeah, man … to some people

that'd be an absolute dream house.

To me I'm like, it's just

a stepping stone house.

When I spoke to the estate agent they

were like, "Excuse me?" I was like, it…

but then compared to

someone else, I'm nothing.

There's always someone better, and

you just gotta keep in your lane

and work on what works for you.

Don't ever compare yourself to others.

In terms of business, yes, I

compare the brand to others.

What are they… Not what

are they doing, whatever.

I'm gonna… I'm using that.

My business partner, Rick, he,

he's an inspiration to me of

I wanna be bigger than you.

Yeah.

That's okay, but don't compare

yourself on a personal level to,

oh, they've got all of those things.

Oh, that's… I want that.

That is the real thief of joy.

Yeah, man.

And your, your ethos is great,

and that's what I try and follow

the power is the power of no.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

It's a superpower, bro.

When, when you said that on the,

on that, on- It's a superpower.

Oh, mate, massively.

When you said it on the podcast I was

like, "Makes sense. It makes so much

sense." So yeah, I'll follow that.

Yeah.

Follow massively.

You, a- and our big one comes from people

that ask for free shit all the time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, God, yeah.

It's oh, my God, how much fucking

stuff do people wanna ask for?

If you wanna invest in your

mate's businesses, there's

nothing wrong with that.

Mate's rates, it's full price.

Yeah.

Literally.

I don't actually know if I paid you,

but the other day when I was, oh,

Afraid, could you do some photos?

You said, "Yeah, it'll cost you

this much." There's no, "Oh,

Afraid, oh, can you do it for this?

Can you do it for that?" Yeah.

It's like, "Yes, send me an

invoice." Yeah, you got interest now.

Yeah.

Have I actually not paid yet?

No.

Shit.

This is really bad, isn't it?

Sit here for free, mate.

Yeah.

Yeah, so- … who hasn't

heard about mate's rates?

Yeah.

It's made up.

No.

But again, like- So busy there's no,

no offense not paying someone, but

I don't think we've ever, in all the

time I've known you, ever done anything

where I've been like, "Oh, Fraze,

do this for this, would you?" It's

always, you are… What is your cost?

You tell me your cost.

Yeah, man.

And then I can say to you, "No,

that's, that's too much." Yeah.

But you never sit there and try and

haggle your mates to get them cheaper.

No.

I think Dan, who, who does our-

Yeah … a lot of our content as well,

I turned around to him and was like,

yeah, earlier, said, "Actually, Dan I

don't feel we're paying you enough."

And that's terrible business.

That's awful.

We turn around and we're gonna

pay him more to do the same.

Mate, his skill- But I was like- … is

unreal … yeah, I, I was like, "I feel

like we're being disingenuous to you.

We're not paying you what you're

worth, so how about this, and

how about we do it on a retainer?

We, we always use you.

Some months we do nothing.

Other months it's like, oh shit,

yeah, we've done loads." Yeah, yeah.

And he's been with us now, I

think he's been with us I think

almost, almost three years now.

Yeah, man.

I'm pretty sure we're on invoice

30-something from him now.

Easy.

Trying to do quick math there, 36.

Invoice 36 would be three years.

Quick math.

No.

Infantry.

The guy, the guy's, yeah, he's…

I, I look up to Dan as well

because his skill is unreal.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

And he's not competition.

Yeah, so good.

He's a collaboration.

And everything works well, you and Dan

both came to the Real Open and made- Yeah

some reels for us.

We didn't pay you for that

because it was for charity.

We gave all of our profit, everything,

every penny we did, to charity.

Think we made nearly five

grand for them there.

It was a good day.

A great day.

And we turned up, and we said,

we're like, "Let us cover,

like, all of your costs- Yeah

and that." We paid for all the guys'

fuel, their parking, everything, and that

didn't get taken away from the profits.

We lost probably two grand

turning up to that event.

But I'm like, well, we

got, we got exposure.

That two grand we lost, I'm like,

well, we got exposure for that.

Yeah.

We managed to punch stuff out with you

and Dan, give you guys the publicity.

And I'm, I'm not a fan of, "Oh, get

free publicity." When it's for charity,

I think it's a little bit different.

It's a charity reel.

A reel.

But we all- Way more … we all

look after the money we raised there

as a collective of people coming

together helped save and keep five

guys and girls in the fight- Yeah

and they're here now for a year.

It's yeah, so I'm… Yeah.

So Fraze, before we end, let's get

a piece of advice from you about

anything for anyone, open-ended.

It's a bit of a rude one.

Ah.

If you're gonna be a cunt, be a good cunt.

I like that.

But now you've got to elaborate on that.

If you're gonna be a cunt about

it, at least, be respectful.

And be one of those, one of

those guys that people go-

He's firm but fair.

And be, just be supportive.

Nice.

Yeah.

I like that.

Firm, firm but fair is good in, in

everything you do in life, from your

children to business to- And the

guys I've met who al- always look

up to, the ones that are firm but

fair, always, yeah, always admire.

Yeah.

Absolutely, love it.

But Mr. Fraser Carson- Oh, fucking hell.

Are you?

Not even gonna… N- nothing about the

height, nothing about the baldness.

Jesus.

But bro, thank you for everything you do.

Thank you for everything

you do for the community.

Thank you for your service.

Thank you for being, thank

you for being me pal.

Oh, you sodding

bastard.

Cheers, mate.