Firm of fortune flows like a sweet spring.

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Green in the world like it's meant to

be.

I'm a culture B-I-O-V, I'm the king.

Back to loving everything.

Bring a change, beginning last.

Welcome to episode four eighty two of the

permaculture pimp cast where pimp stands

for permaculture is my passion.

The only pimp cast on this earth that

discusses permaculture preparedness,

practical living and occasionally

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Permaculture P.I.F.P.

with soulful grace.

In the P.I.F.P.

cast where we find our place.

Oh, well, good to be here, y'all,

on this interview Wednesday.

Really excited about this one and the

guests we have on.

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Yeah, there's, oh, shoot,

I don't even know where to start,

to be honest with you,

but I'll just cover all the housekeeping

up front.

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All right.

So got all the housekeeping squared away

right up front because I don't want to

mess around going to our guest Morley

Robbins.

Morley, how are you today?

Doing great, Billy.

Good to see you.

Good to see you.

Are you on the road still or are

you back home?

No,

I'm still on the road out in California.

I'm actually,

tomorrow I leave for Boston to catch up

with my two oldest kids who both live

there with their families in the Boston

area.

One in Newton, Mass.

The other in Harvard, Mass.

And then I'm winging my way to merry

old England for some podcasts,

face-to-face podcasts and some meetings

over there.

And then I'm coming back on the sixth

of September and I'll settle down for the

rest of the year before we go to

Poland in October.

Well,

I think I understand why everybody and a

great grandmother wants you on because

I'll just jump straight into it.

We had you on about a month ago,

I want to say, somewhere thereabouts.

And since that time, and by the way,

folks, if you don't already have it,

you need to get Morley's book.

Hopefully it'll show up on this new

camera.

Root, cure your fatigue.

And the subtitle is the root cause and

how to fix it on your own.

In a nutshell,

I'm not going to try to explain.

All I know is as a former soldier,

I am really good at following directions.

And Morley gave me the protocol.

He looked at my lab results and I've

been following everything to the letter.

So Morley,

I'm just going to tell you along with

everybody else here,

I've been telling them in the podcast

that, um,

Honestly,

in the first week I saw my energy

shoot absolutely through the roof.

And it took me, you know,

I ended up going to the guy you

recommended.

And I couldn't believe it,

but I actually felt better after I gave

blood.

And I mean, I was already feeling,

you know, on the upswing.

And then when I gave blood,

it might have been a day or two

later.

I was like, man,

surely it can't be this easy.

But I'm guessing it is.

What am I missing here, Morley?

No, we have been.

led down a primrose path of confusion.

The phrase that I love to use is,

I eschew obfuscation.

And that's a very haughty way of saying,

I don't like complications.

I don't like to be fooled around with.

And they have been messing with our mind

and messing with our food and messing with

the medical system where we don't know

which end is up.

and what we focus on within the root

cause protocol as we discussed in our

first session is we're really keying in on

three elements copper iron and oxygen and

they are very important elements on planet

earth in fact there's a famous copper

researcher at um

auburn university his name is paul kobine

and his famous saying is there can be

no life on planet earth without copper

it's a pretty bold thing to say and

and he's absolutely right and so the

unique property of copper is it manages

iron and oxygen

at the same time without creating rust.

And for those of us who are active

outdoors, we know what rust is.

Rusty nail, rusty pipe, rusty car,

rusty tractor, rusty truck, whatever.

Well,

that same rusting process is taking place

inside our body.

No one ever told us that.

And they use different terminology.

They'll talk about oxidative stress

instead of rust,

but that's really what it is.

The plaque that gets in our arteries,

it's caused by oxidative stress.

The loss of energy,

the fatigue that's in the title,

it's the number one reason why people go

see their doctor.

They're tired.

And the tragedy is,

No doctor that I know is taught how

energy is made in the human body.

And you've got to be able to,

the iron is delivering the oxygen.

That's what hemoglobin is all about.

It's a very important part of our

physiology.

But that oxygen needs to be activated,

needs to be turned into two molecules of

water and

And when that chemical transaction takes

place,

energy is released inside of our cells.

But you got to make water first.

And so there's forty quadrillion

mitochondria.

That's fifteen zeros.

It's a ridiculous number.

We can hardly relate to it.

But every one of those mitochondria is a

water wheel.

It's making water to release energy.

And what you want to do is make

sure that those water wheels don't become

ferrous wheels.

And we spell ferrous differently.

It's F-E-R-R-O-U-S,

because that's the toxic form of iron.

And when the mitochondria becomes a

ferrous wheel, you have no energy,

you have no function,

and you have lots of symptoms.

So what we're trying to do is just

keep the iron and oxygen in proper

regulation and use the copper to make

energy and make a lot of the metabolic

pathways work in the body.

Now, Morley, why does mainstream medicine,

because you explain it in such a way

that makes it very, very simple,

at least for me to understand.

This is outside of my wheelhouse in so

many different ways,

but what you're saying, for some reason,

conventional medicine either

misunderstands or doesn't get it.

I mean, why don't they get this?

Why is every doctor out there saying take

an iron supplement and all this other

stuff?

Well,

the cornerstone of conventional medicine

is a meme.

You're anemic and you're copper toxic.

And that is a meme,

but it's not the truth.

The truth is we're drowning in iron.

We don't have enough bioavailable copper

to regulate that iron.

And the reason why I think doctors

struggle with this is that the

If you've ever seen the cartoon,

there's a famous medical cartoon of the

instructor in front of the class of

doctors for the very first day of class.

He's at the blackboard saying,

a healthy patient is no longer paying.

So there's no money.

people.

And that's kind of a cheap shot,

but I think it's very, very true.

But I think the real issue is they've

been taught to believe in disease.

Well,

we've all been taught to believe in

disease.

And many years ago,

it was probably ten years now,

ten years ago on Facebook,

I wanted to stir things up.

I just wanted to see what the reaction

was going to be.

I said, there is no medical disease.

There is only stress-induced

mineral dysregulation,

which causes metabolic dysfunction,

which creates symptoms.

But the disease is narrative.

And I was I was really expecting a

blowback.

I thought a lot of people thought a

lot of practitioners, doctors,

nutritionists, whatever,

would really take me to task.

not one comment, no one ever checked.

And this was when I was kind of

flexing my muscles on Facebook.

I had a following of quarter million

people and no one touched that comment.

No one was willing.

And I think that the real breakdown is

that there is no disease.

And so within the root cause protocol,

the phrase that we use is ignore the

enemies

the pathogens, the heavy metals,

the toxins.

We're not worried about the enemies.

Ignite the energy.

And that's why the book is called Cure

Your Fatigue.

We're creating energy.

And once the body has energy,

it knows exactly what to do with it.

It can run the metabolic pathways,

can run the immune system,

can run all the signaling pathways.

And

That's the catch-all,

is that when we're making energy,

everything's just fine.

And the analogy that I use is if

you've ever been on a boogie board,

like if you're going to go skiing or

something,

if the board is this way or this

way,

But when the board is in the center

and you're having to balance it,

it takes a lot of energy on your

legs to keep it in balance.

And that's the way the body works is

we require lots of energy to stay in

balance, which is a good thing.

And as soon as we lose our energy,

that's when the pathogens take over.

They are low-energy vampires,

and they suddenly creep in.

And so what we try to do is

keep the force field up,

keep the balance in concert,

and then we don't have to worry about

the symptoms.

They just melt away.

And what's interesting is you're talking

about your response in a matter of a

week or so.

I had an

his name was Paul,

and he was having all sorts of problems

with sleep and pain in his legs and

energy.

And he was just a hot mess.

He was eight to six, very vital,

big guy, six, two,

but he just wasn't feeling right.

So I told him about root cause protocol,

said, Paul,

I think you really would do well to

take one of the recuperate tablets that we

talk about.

He said, okay,

I'll be happy to do that.

And several months later,

We were having a follow-up consult.

And he sent me his blood work.

And I noticed that his copper level was

over two hundred.

Well, healthy copper is like a hundred.

All the metals should be a hundred.

Zinc, copper, iron,

they should all be a hundred in the

serum.

And his copper was over two hundred.

So I was like, oh boy, what happened?

So he gets on the call and I

said, you know, Paul,

I couldn't help but notice that your

copper level is a little elevated.

And he leans into the camera and says,

I know, isn't that exciting?

And I said, well, what did you do?

And he said, well, Morley,

you told me two things.

He was an engineer.

He was very good at following orders,

just like the soldier in you.

And he said,

you told me that I was in charge.

He said, I like that.

So I took control.

He said,

you told me to take one recuperate.

Well, I decided to take six.

So he was getting twelve milligrams of

copper a day,

which is back in the thirties.

That would not have been unusual.

But I said, okay.

And he had all these symptoms.

I said,

so what's the status of all your symptoms?

And he leans back into the camera for

the second time.

He says, Morley, all my symptoms are gone.

I don't have any pain.

I've got more energy than I know what

to do with.

I'm sleeping like a baby.

And it's just like,

like you said it's almost too simple and

so um the whole premise of the protocol

is just to give people the basics of

how the body really works introduce them

to the nutrients that make the most impact

and then just let the individual start to

work the plan and does it work for

everyone no does it work for most people

yes i'd say probably about eighty five

percent of people get really good results

and the fifteen percent who don't they

don't follow instructions well and they're

questioning and they have doubt and and

they're worried about they're trying to

straddle the fence with other programs

that they've got going and it's like okay

if we if we can get eighty five

percent of people to to improve that's

that's a heck of a impact and so

you know what what um what batter can

bet eight fifty nobody the highest was

like what four hundred uh ted williams was

what four twenty five something like that

so i think we're doing well and it's

just getting people to step out of the

box of convention and take some time

doesn't take a lot of time but just

take the time to understand the mechanics

of why this works and then just get

out of the way

Now,

I'm not looking at my results right now,

but you had me take a blood test.

And if I recall, my copper, not copper,

but my iron might have been four hundred,

something like that.

Now,

to the average person out there that says,

okay, okay,

I got way too much iron in me.

It's something of a rhetorical question,

but I think we need to address it

for all the new people out there that

are almost certainly going to check this

out.

And by the way, folks,

go back and listen to part one.

So for the people out there,

what is the best way for them to

offload this excess iron that we have out

there?

Because it's what you had me do.

I mean,

and what does that process look like?

Yeah.

So it's important to know that there's

three easy ways to measure iron status in

the blood.

The first is hemoglobin.

So from the time of the Civil War

up until eighteen seventy two,

any doctor who wanted to know your iron

status measured hemoglobin.

It's it's seventy percent of the iron in

the body is bound up in the hemoglobin

protein,

which is carrying oxygen one way and

carrying carbon dioxide the other way.

That's a big bolus of iron.

If you include myoglobin,

it jumps up to eighty percent of the

iron is tied up in proteins that are

managing oxygen.

Okay,

that's a very important marker to know.

Ideal hemoglobin for a woman would be,

say,

twelve and a half to thirteen and a

half.

ideal hemoglobin for a guy,

maybe fourteen to fifteen,

something like that.

There are people who have much lower

hemoglobins and there are also people who

have much higher hemoglobins.

But the important thing is to know that

hemoglobin is a very important marker for

iron status.

A second marker,

and the one that you're referring to,

and your blood work is called ferritin and

it's measured in the serum.

So think of when you think of blood

and you put blood into a test tube

and you spit it down,

you're going to get two fluids or two

colors.

You're going to get at the bottom of

the test tube what are called packed red

blood cells.

The centrifuge pushes them down.

And then you're going to get sort of

a milky liquid at the top.

And that's serum.

It's basically seawater.

So the red blood cells are swimming in

serum, swimming in the seawater.

And the seawater has a bunch of minerals

in it.

So that in that serum is this iron

storage protein called ferritin.

But that protein is supposed to be inside

the cell,

not outside the cell in the blood.

Ferritin should not be in the blood.

And about ten percent of iron is tied

up in ferritin.

And when it does show up in the

blood, as it does,

and yours was over four hundred,

the one that caught my attention for

myself was my ferritin was over two

thirty, and I knew that was too high.

Anything above, say,

fifty is really elevated.

It can go into the thousands, though.

When the ferritin gets above that

threshold,

what it's telling you is that the iron

is being dumped into the liver and the

liver is secreting

the storage protein into the bloodstream

to get your attention.

It's really not.

The world's authority on ferritin,

his name is Douglas Kell.

I asked him years ago,

what's the ideal ferritin for a human

being?

He said zero, which was a shock.

And so a lot of controversy around that,

a lot of foment around that,

a lot of people being told that they

have low ferritin.

Be careful.

Again,

ferritin is not supposed to be in the

blood.

And so we just have to be really

sensitive to that.

And then the third marker for iron is

called serum iron.

Sometimes it's called total iron.

Sometimes it's just called iron.

Again, ideally,

that marker should be one hundred.

And when it's below that,

it means that there's inefficiency in the

recycling system.

Iron is supposed to be a hundred.

That means that there's a very efficient

turnover in the recycling of iron,

which takes place every day.

We have to replace two hundred billion red

blood cells every twenty-four hours.

Constant process.

And nobody knows this.

It takes twenty-five milligrams of iron,

which is a very tiny amount,

to replace two hundred billion red blood

cells.

But the part that always surprises people

is to find out that twenty-four

of those twenty-five milligrams of iron

come from the recycling system.

Only one milligram of iron is supposed to

come through our mouth.

And what they've done is they've flipped

the message,

and they got us eating twenty to

twenty-five milligrams of iron,

and they're silent about the recycling

system.

And the recycling system depends on what?

Bioavailable copper.

And that's where the catch is.

And so in your situation,

and in many people who have elevated

ferritin,

Blood donation is an amazing tonic,

if you will,

to offload that excess iron because it

just, it slows everything down.

And when you donate a pint of blood,

it takes about fifteen minutes to do that,

depending upon where you go.

And that's five hundred milliliters of

iron.

Well, fifty percent of that is iron.

So you're offloading two hundred and fifty

milligrams of iron.

It's just clogging up the system because

it's not where it needs to be.

And as we get older,

the level of iron rises in our body.

So the iron biologists,

people like Douglas Kell, Robert Crichton,

Jamie Collins,

these are the big names in iron biology.

They all agree on the fact that we

accumulate one milligram of iron every day

we're on the planet.

Wow.

So I'm seventy three.

So I've got twenty six thousand milligrams

of iron in my body.

Well,

I donate blood regularly to offload that

every quarter.

And I would encourage anyone who's male.

the time you're eighteen on you can donate

blood and do it quarterly if you're

post-menopausal woman you can do the exact

same thing you're you're designed to

donate blood that's what the menstrual

cycle is all about but but during your

menstrual years you can donate probably

one or two times a year

But in menopause,

you should be donating four times a year.

And it's just a wonderful way to offload

this excess iron that gets into our body.

And the Red Cross has done numerous

longitudinal studies of people who are

regular blood donors versus people who are

not blood donors.

So that out of a

five will donate blood regularly.

Ninety-five, not so much.

And every longitudinal study has

documented that the regular donors outlive

the non-donors every study they've ever

done.

Again,

getting that excess iron out of the system

just seems to have a magical effect.

And it lowers the incidence of oxidative

stress and increases energy production.

or allows the energy production to

increase by that process.

You know, Morley,

I'm not a big fan of needles,

but I heard you say that before.

And this is when I was first looking

into your work.

And I said, man,

let me fact check this.

And sure enough, sure enough,

I come to find out that there is

a massive,

and I checked multiple engines to find

out, you know,

if I could have this corroborated by AI

and the whole nine yards,

even though I'm not a big fan of

it.

And sure enough, I was like, man,

how many more people would give blood if

they knew that this increased their

longevity?

That was astonishing to me.

So there seems to be some correlation,

clearly.

So what is the cause of iron being

so dysregulated in most of us out here?

I mean, is it the environment?

I mean,

every single day they're dropping this

garbage out of the plains.

The food that we have is absolutely toxic

up one side and down the other.

Do we even know what's causing the source?

I mean, is it the glyphosate?

I mean,

do we have any clue what's even making

it become this way?

We do.

It's been studied for a century.

They first knew there was a very powerful

relationship between copper and iron in

March of,

at the University of Wisconsin in Madison,

and May of,

at the University of Kentucky in

Louisville.

And when you withhold copper from an

animal's diet,

and we're all animals,

but we withhold copper from an animal's

diet, iron will accumulate in the liver.

It's very well documented.

And there's a very specific metabolic

reason why,

but it's important to know that if you

have a low-copper diet,

as most people do worldwide,

you're going to have iron filling up the

liver.

And so they've been studying copper,

they've been studying iron,

And a very small few have been studying

the relationship between copper and iron.

So to put it into context,

there are thousands of iron researchers.

There are hundreds of copper researchers.

There are handfuls of researchers who look

at both metals.

And the real key is understanding that

there is this relationship between copper

and iron.

The way I characterize it is copper is

the general,

irons the foot soldier.

You don't have to be in the military

to know there's a difference between

generals and foot soldiers.

And if the general's not around,

foot soldiers act out.

They're very good at that.

And what's happened, again,

during this last century is they changed

the farming system,

they changed food processing,

and they changed pharmaceuticals.

Well,

those are three very powerful ways to

change our physiology.

When they first introduced NPK after the

First World War,

NPK was used in munitions.

A lot of people know that.

So they had a lot of that NPK

lying around after the war.

So someone thought, hey,

let's turn it into a fertilizer.

Nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium.

And it does work as a fertilizer.

There's stunning results.

It's not natural, but it will work.

What they learned in the fifties,

took a number of years to figure this

out,

is that NPK was blocking copper uptake in

the root system of the plants.

Well,

if the copper is not getting into the

plant,

it means it's not getting into the animal,

which means it's not getting into the

human.

So that was the first clue that something

was going on.

And it was Andre Voisin.

He was a famous French biochemist who

loved to, he was a dairyman.

His hobby was raising dairy cattle and

milking the cows.

and he wrote a very famous book in

nineteen fifty seven entitled soil grass

cancer and he was lamenting the fact that

the soil didn't have the copper wasn't

getting into the grass wasn't getting into

the cows wasn't getting into the milk and

his customers were getting cancer

And meticulous documentation of that in

his book.

Probably one of the most important studies

I've ever read.

And so we have this conflict between

copper in the soil and then its

availability to get into the food and

ultimately get it into the human.

Then they introduced even more powerful

chemicals, particularly herbicides.

And everyone's familiar with Roundup.

Mm-hmm.

or glyphosate as it's formally called.

And many years ago,

I was at a meeting and across from

me at a breakfast round table was

Stephanie Seneff.

And we had met previously and she said,

Marlee,

would you like to know why glyphosate is

so hard on copper metabolism?

Well, Billy,

I thought I'd died and gone to heaven.

I was just,

I couldn't wait to find out.

And in meticulous detail,

she was able to explain that glyphosate

basically undermines copper metabolism.

It binds it up in the soil.

What we've learned is that it'll bind up

copper a billion times faster than it

binds up calcium or magnesium.

It'll bind up copper a thousand times

faster than zinc or iron.

And we throw these numbers out.

Have you ever been a thousand times faster

in your life?

No.

Never.

I've driven a car twice the speed limit.

That was a heady experience.

Thankfully, I didn't get caught.

But when you're going at hundred and fifty

miles an hour, it's a real rush.

Well,

a thousand times faster than that or a

billion times faster.

I mean, look, Chuck Yeager,

when I was a little boy,

he broke the sound barrier.

So he went ten times the speed limit.

It was like seven fifty,

seven hundred fifty miles an hour.

That I'm sure was a rush for him.

But we haven't gotten to a thousand.

We certainly haven't gotten to a billion.

So the dilemma we have is we can't

relate to the assault on these minerals.

And.

They're very, very powerful.

And I've been told by soil agronomists

that glyphosate is the ninth most toxic

chemical on the planet.

I don't want to know what the other

eight are.

It's a frightening thought.

But farming has changed.

Food processing,

they started to refine food again about a

century ago,

maybe a little bit earlier than that.

It was probably the turn of the nineteen

hundreds.

And they were stripping out all the

nutrients in the wheat and the flowers and

things.

And the food started to taste like

cardboard.

Not very appetizing.

So what did they do?

They added sugar.

sugar really messes up a lot of things

but it it really messes up the dynamic

between copper and iron and there's an

axis between copper and fat and there's an

axis between sugar and iron in fact i

call sugar white iron and so when you

start eating a lot of sugar in your

diet it's going to affect

the prevalence of iron in your body and

all sorts of problems that come with it,

like diabetes.

So the food has changed.

Now they're using something called

high-fructose corn syrup,

or it's called fructose syrup,

or it's called corn sugars.

There's about ten different names for it,

and it's very toxic to the body,

and it causes a loss of energy.

ATP production gets challenged,

but it really affects the copper

metabolism,

and it causes

causes an increase of iron in the tissue.

It also really accelerates something

called uric acid.

And anybody who's got a gouty toe,

be thankful that the pain is in the

toe and not in the heart.

But the fact of the matter is,

when uric acid is being made,

ATP is not being made.

And I learned that from a meeting I

had with Richard Johnson,

who's a famous nephrologist,

kidney doctor out at the University of

Colorado in Denver.

And so

The incidence of fatty liver disease is

through the roof now.

It's the number one liver disease on the

planet.

And you can bet your bippy that fructose

intake is at the center of that.

And in fact,

to create fatty liver disease,

You have to have copper deficiency,

you have to have retinol deficiency,

and you have to have iron overload.

Those are the only three factors you need

in order to create a fatty liver disease.

And it's happening worldwide.

And everyone's kind of scratching their

head trying to figure it out.

It's not complicated.

And there's a famous scientist named Ming

Song, S-O-N-G, MD,

PhD at the University of Louisville.

not university of kentucky university of

louisville and he's published four or five

articles now proving

that the rise of fatty liver disease is

those three elements out of whack.

Too much iron, too little retinol,

too little copper.

And that's not the way it's taught in

medical school.

And then the third big change would be

in medications.

And they've changed a lot over the last

hundred and fifty years.

But they're very hard on minerals,

especially magnesium and copper.

Antibiotics are especially hard,

especially on copper.

A lot of medications have a letter F

in them, like fluoroquinolones.

It's an antibiotic.

Nickname is Phloxy.

It's also known as Cipro.

It's usually given out for...

infections, you know, UTIs,

urinary tract infections.

And that is a,

it's a massive cannon for a problem that

could be solved with a fly swatter.

But they're just dosing these medications

and it's really affecting our minerals.

So the challenge we've got is it's out

of sight, out of mind.

No one's ever told us all about this.

We didn't know that there's been this

gradual change in farming.

gradual change in food processing,

gradual change in pharmaceuticals.

And so basically what they've been doing

is boiling the frog one degree at a

time and doing it one degree a year

so we don't notice it.

And now we've got our back against the

wall.

And then we've got the added challenge of

things like COVID that a lot of people

endured a number of years ago.

And I renamed COVID March of

that COV stands for coppers vanished,

and ID stands for irons dysregulated.

Again, when copper is low, iron takes off.

And that's exactly what happened in COVID.

And I just learned the other day, Billy,

what the mechanism was for all the

respiratory distress that people were

having.

There's a peptide,

very powerful regulatory peptide called

endothelin-I,

Nobody's ever heard of it,

but it's a blockbuster inside the

endothelial cells.

And what triggers endothelin one?

iron.

Iron will activate it and get it all

whipped up into a frenzy.

And when endothelin one starts to flex its

muscles, a lot of chronic disease follows.

I mean, a lot.

And chronic, I mean, excuse me, COVID,

lung disorder is just one of many.

And so I think the more challenging part

for the public as it relates to this

conversation is believing that there's

this common,

mechanism this focal point of copper iron

and oxygen that's has this massive impact

and reach in our body but it does

and so we've been trained to believe that

there's a thousand reasons why we get sick

you know

picture of a post office,

go into the lobby of the post office,

and there's hundreds of post office boxes,

and each one has a separate key or

combination to open it up.

And that's what we've been led to believe

is how the disease process works,

that somehow cardiovascular disease is

completely different than chronic kidney

disease,

is completely different than diabetes,

is completely different than cancer.

And stay within that mindset of the

mailbox,

Got to have the right key to open

it up so I can solve that problem.

Well, when I was in college,

I worked in the mailroom.

That was my first job.

I was on the other side.

I had access to everybody's mailbox.

I didn't need a key or a combination.

And that's really how the body works.

The minerals are supposed to have access

to everybody's mailbox.

And the way they've changed the farming,

food processing, and pharmaceuticals,

it's really messed up the access.

But this whole idea of

One mechanism of dysregulation, copper,

iron, and oxygen, is very threatening.

It's very disorienting.

When, in fact, as far as I'm concerned,

the twelve thousand articles that I've

read are all vectoring in on that one

mechanism.

And that really stirs people up,

especially the practitioners,

because they didn't learn it that way.

And it's hard for the public to accept

it.

Well, if it's that simple,

why didn't I learn that, right?

Or if it's that complicated, no,

not complicated.

If it's that important,

why didn't my doctor learn that?

And we're back to the beginning of the

conversation.

There's no money in healthy humans.

And so that's the most charitable thing we

can say is that there's just this kind

of backdrop of dysfunction

running all forms of healing.

And people don't specialize in minerals

the way that we do within the root

cause protocol.

And I would encourage your listeners and

your followers to really

Get up that learning curve through the

book, through the website,

the rootcauseprotocol.com,

through the social presence that we've got

on Facebook or X or TikTok or wherever.

We're constantly beaming out information.

And just begin to educate yourself about a

whole different paradigm of healing that

no one ever talks about.

So hopefully buried in there is the answer

to your question.

I hope that didn't overwhelm people.

No, no, not at all.

In fact, Morley,

I truly appreciate the way that, you know,

I may ask a very myopic question,

but you provide substance.

I love how you put in the historical

examples.

And frankly,

I'm just blown away at how you're able

to recall that.

These articles,

chapter and verse from years and years

ago, I would, man,

your mental Rolodex is definitely on

another level.

So you're clearly doing some stuff that

works.

You would not have wanted to be around

me when I was in college.

You would say,

how does that guy know how to spell

iron, much less talk about it?

And now in late in life,

I've had this epiphany in the last twenty

years.

I'm just a completely different animal and

pleased to be able to share this kind

of information in conversations like this.

Well,

I'm pleased that you're able to pull this

up because any naysayers out there are

almost certainly going to say, well,

where did you get this from?

Where did you get that from?

Which is strangely something I always run

into in certain circles when I'm talking

about certain things and people think I'm

some conspiracy nut because I just happen

to know where the information chapter and

verse all came from.

So speaking of, you know,

turning things on their head as I was

going through and I did several times,

actually,

the interview that you did with Dr.

Edwards on your website.

I mean, all that stuff was fascinating.

But the thing that really,

really took me for a ride was.

was and there's and there's so many

different things i mean i'm realized now

when i was taking a certain kind of

brand of magnesium i'd have to pee in

the middle of the night all the time

didn't know why but you explained that to

me and then um the thing that really

kind of caught my attention was the whole

thing about vitamin c because i thought

foolishly that i was doing the right thing

by ordering vitamin c from a person that

was highly reputable it was absorbic acid

but i come to find out later on

that all of this stuff seems to come

from the same place in china even though

this guy this particular person was

getting his out of the uk and i'm

realizing okay they're getting it from

china it really doesn't matter but

everybody seems to think that vitamin c or

vitamin k or vitamin d or all these

things as i was saying a minute ago

not all magnesium is created created equal

And certainly not all vitamin C is created

equal.

Would you mind explaining the difference

between this whole food vitamin C that you

advocate compared to the absorbic acid

that everybody's out there taking?

And it's apples and oranges.

Apparently, that's the way I take it.

Yeah, that's a great question.

We all drive cars.

At least most of us do.

And we know that if you break down

the car, you have an engine.

a steering wheel, four wheels,

and a cover.

That's the basic design of an automobile.

And that's the whole food vitamin C

complex.

It has multiple moving parts.

Very, very important.

Ascorbic acid,

is just the cover of the car and

no moving parts.

And so it's a synthetic derivative.

It's made from mixing GMO corn

You farmers know what that's all about.

All too well.

With sulfuric acid and voila,

we can make ascorbic acid.

Now,

this goes back to the nineteen thirties.

It was first manufactured in nineteen

thirty four at Hoffman LaRoche

Laboratories.

And it was actually Albert Sven Gorgi,

he's a famous MD, PhD,

who actually got the Nobel Prize for

discovering ascorbic acid, right?

Turns out there's another name for

ascorbic acid, it's called hexauronic.

Hex is a Latin word for six.

Hexauronic acid is another name for

ascorbic acid.

And when you pick at history,

you find out, well,

he wasn't just working with hexahuronic

acid.

He was also working with something called

hyaluronic acid.

Well, they sound the same.

Hexahuronic, hyaluronic.

And in fact,

before he got his Nobel Prize,

and this is very significant, July fourth,

He writes a letter to the editor of

Nature Journal.

There's a pecking order in all these

publications.

Well, publications like Lancet, Nature,

Science,

these are the big dogs at the top.

Well,

Nature Journal is a very prestigious

journal.

Dr.

Sven Gorgi writes a letter to the editor

and puts in black and white,

ascorbic acid does not cure scurvy.

Ascorbic acid is the anti-scorbutic

mechanism, allegedly.

And it's in black and white.

I've got a copy of the letter.

I've downloaded the letter.

And it's one of my prized possessions is

that letter denouncing that ascorbic acid

isn't what people think it is.

And eighteen months later,

December of nineteen thirty seven,

he gets the Nobel Prize.

So something happened.

There's a lot of unknowns around that.

But the important thing is to know that

there is a difference.

There's a massive difference between

ascorbic acid,

the synthetic cover of the car,

versus the whole food vitamin C complex,

which is the car.

And there are J factors and K factors

and bioflavonoids and rutin and a very

important enzyme in the whole food complex

called tyrosinase.

Most people have never heard of that.

And what's useful to know,

back to our earlier discussion,

back to the food processing changes,

one of the biggest chemicals that's used

in food processing are tyrosinase

inhibitors.

Wow.

Why would you want to do that?

And what they'll tell you is that they're

trying to control shelf life,

trying to extend the life of the product

at the store,

but it's not extending your human life.

It extends the shelf life,

but not the human life.

And so tyrosinase inhibitors are not our

friend.

And tremendous confusion on this because

tyrosinase is a very important copper

enzyme.

And it's used principally in activating

melanin,

which is a hormone that gives us skin

color, eye color, and hair color.

But it's so much more than that.

It turns out that colors inside the body

are really, really important.

That the heart is supposed to be red.

The liver is supposed to be brown.

gallbladder is supposed to be green and

the spleen is supposed to be a very

vibrant purple and so i was sharing this

with my students a number of years ago

and one of the members of the class

was a general surgeon she raised her hand

she said morley i've never seen a purple

spleen and so what does that mean it

means that these tyrosinase inhibitors are

working

The color is leaving our body.

But if an organ doesn't have the right

color,

it doesn't have the right frequency,

it means it doesn't have the right energy.

It can't do its job right.

And so frequency is what runs the

universe.

Everything vibrates.

And if we're not vibrating at the right

pitch, we've got a problem.

And so the reason why people fixate on

energy

ascorbic acid,

is it really helps with iron absorption.

Because everybody's anemic,

don't you know?

And so the confusion about anemia is low

iron on a blood test has no relationship,

but there is high iron in the tissue.

So when you see low iron on the

blood test,

the very first thing you should think is,

gee, doctor,

what's my iron status in my organs?

No one's ever been taught to ask that,

especially the doctor.

And so we've been conditioned to believe

that the blood test is perfectly

representative of what's going on in the

tissue.

It is not.

In fact,

there's there's ten times more iron in

senescent cells in the tissue that is

found in the blood.

And so

There's a little bit of sleight of hand

going on.

And so when we need to absorb iron,

it's actually a two-step process.

The first step is to get the iron

that's in the food into the cells that

absorb food called enterocytes.

Enterocytes are the little cells that

allow the food in.

then that iron needs to get into the

bloodstream well that's the second

absorption and that second absorption

requires copper you can't get iron out of

the enterocyte and into the blood unless

you have bioavailable copper hanging out

at the membrane and so the ascorbic acid

is helping to get the iron into the

cell

but the ascorbic acid is also undermining

the integrity of the copper protein

ceruloplasmin that ideally has eight

copper atoms inside it.

And if ascorbic acid is prevalent in the

diet, as it is in many people's diet,

It undermines the ceruloplasmin protein,

and the coppers leak out,

and you can't get the iron out of

the enterocyte into the bloodstream.

And that's why the incidence of irritable

bowel, colitis, Crohn's,

and all of those types of conditions is

rising because of the rising amount of

iron in the food that gets into the

gut but can't get out of the gut

and get into the bloodstream.

So it's a very simple function to

understand that it's a two-step process,

and they're fixated on the first step,

and they're undermining our ability to do

the second step.

Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense.

And it was something of a rhetorical

question because I've heard you explain it

before,

but I thought the audience might find this

as fascinating as I did.

It made me realize once again that

Good night.

Everything I'm out here being told is just

seems to be a manufactured lie in so

many different ways or something to keep

me chronically ill and keep me on the

dole of the powers that shouldn't be.

You know, Morley,

I know as we're coming to a close

here,

I want to be respectful of your time.

One of the big things that was it

was a mental block for me is when

you start your protocol, it's like, hey,

man,

you got to get rid of the multivitamins.

Man,

I've been told my whole life I needed

a multivitamin.

And I've been taking what I thought was

the best thing out there.

And you said, uh-uh,

get rid of it all.

You don't need it.

this is what I want you to do.

So my wife and I went on a

little shopping spree and, you know,

got what you said,

but I got to say of all the

different,

the only thing I found difficult was the

mental aspect of to stop doing what I

thought was good for me when it wasn't

actually.

So why should everybody get rid of these

multivitamins?

Well, they're synthetic.

Even the ones that say they're plant-based

and all that,

there's a lot of synthetics in there.

The problem with the one-a-days,

and I use that term generically,

not product-specific,

but the problem that you've got is the

mineral concentrations are wrong.

The ratios of calcium to magnesium,

iron to copper,

all of these critical mineral ratios

are completely upside down and backwards

the b vitamins are for the most part

synthetic almost exclusively synthetic and

they're being made from coal tar

derivatives and if you really want an

entertaining afternoon look up the

composition of coal tar derivatives they

have names for five thousand of them

There's five thousand they don't have

names for.

So there's something that makes us we've

been conditioned to take this stuff.

And the vitamin E that's in there is

It's a synthetic form of palmitate,

retinyl palmitate.

That's not a good form.

And so it's always got ascorbic acid.

Very typically, we'll have citric acid,

another challenge to our metabolism.

And so it's...

It's a very convenient way to keep the

body suppressed is really what it comes

down to.

And I mean,

doctors like to laugh about it and say,

oh, you're just, you know,

you're taking these daily vitamins.

You're just making expensive pee.

And when I first heard that,

I was kind of offended.

but then as i really got into studying

it and understanding what where the for

the most part weaknesses are the doctors

are right it is very expensive p that's

being created and it's not helping us

regain the nutrient status that we need in

order to make energy run the immune system

run the signaling systems and what have

you and so um it's just a a

part of our folklore here in in

North America is to take a multi when

in fact it works against us.

And we think of it as a life

insurance policy when in fact it's more

like a death sentence.

It doesn't do what we have been taught

or told that it will do.

Wow.

Morley, I got to ask, you know,

there's clearly a number of people.

This is why I wanted to do multiple

interviews with you because, you know,

also track my progress as well.

I didn't expect, honestly,

I've done a number of these things.

I didn't expect for you to come back

on here.

When we initially set out to do this,

I was like, okay, you know,

everybody else makes these claims.

And I'm like, wow, man,

I'm really feeling the energy difference,

even on days where I really shouldn't.

on days where I'm really,

really taxed from the farm work I do.

And I'm like, okay,

I got energy to spare, but I'm also,

it's not so,

it's not so over the top that I'm

unable to go to sleep.

So that's, but I got,

I got what I need.

I definitely have what I need.

And then some,

so for all the people out there that

are thinking, okay, man, I, you know,

I want to know more about this.

I want to,

I highly recommend everybody go get

Morley's book, cure your fatigue.

It's right here.

Also, he has an audio version of it,

but should they go to the website and

how do they navigate that if they're

looking for, you know,

a way past whatever issues they have?

Yeah,

the website is therootcauseprotocol.com

and go to the search engine and put

in starter guide.

And when you donate your email address,

we'll immediately send you a a sixteen

page PDF that explains the basics of the

program,

answers many of the typical questions

people have at the outset.

But the most important part is it outlines

what to stop taking and what to start

taking.

They're called stops and starts.

And there's about a dozen of each.

And the whole goal is just to get

people on this game plan

very different game plan than what you've

been raised to to uh to think is

good uh much to your point billy i've

always taken a daily vitamins like i get

it i did that too i mean i've

i was following that that advice hook line

and sinker for many many years and um

and now i advise people as you know

to give it to the neighbor you like

the least and get rid of this stuff

and so um

The thing is,

the protocol where it's disorienting is

telling you to stop taking calcium.

Stop taking iron supplements.

Stop taking ascorbic acid.

Stop taking vitamin D only supplements.

We're very bullish on cod liver oil,

which is Mother Nature's best form of both

vitamin A and vitamin D.

You need both of them.

Why do we need both?

Because the vitamin D receptor

needs to marry the retinoid X receptor.

You've never heard of that.

It's called RXR.

It's one of the derivatives of vitamin A

metabolism.

And when VDR can sync up with RXR,

boom,

then you've got this powerhouse of

functionality.

But they give all of the accolades to

vitamin D,

and they ignore the RXR that comes from

vitamin A.

It's just the crazy world that we live

in.

So we're really trying to eliminate the

static in your daily routine,

introduce you to the powerhouse nutrients,

get you eating an ancestral diet that's,

I think, best explained by the Weston A.

Price community,

and begin to deal with your stress.

That's a very important piece of the

puzzle is it isn't just popping pills.

We've got to do what Billy did.

He did.

I'd love to rephrase it.

When I get a call from people,

and trust me,

I get calls regularly from people who feel

like they've plateaued.

Hey, it's not working anymore.

I only have two questions I ask them.

Have you dumped your iron?

And have you dumped your fear?

And we spell fear differently within the

RCP.

It's FE hyphen AR.

So you see the symbol for iron,

you see the symbol for CU and cure

your fatigue.

Well,

the symbol for iron has FE in it.

And when you are in a state of

fear,

Know anybody who's got a lot of stress?

And what's playing at the base of that

stress is fear.

Fear that you're never going to get out

of this state.

Fear that your health is never going to

come back.

And that fear creates a magnet for iron.

And there's an actual mechanism for it.

There's a hormone.

Everyone's worked up about their hormones.

Oh, my testosterone, my estrogen,

my progesterone.

Well,

the hormone you really need to be worried

about is

is called hepcidin.

You may never have heard of it.

Your doctor may never have heard of it

either.

And so hepcidin is the hormone that

regulates iron status in the body.

And what will send hepcidin into orbit is

an infection, inflammation,

too much iron in the diet, wink, wink.

But there's another key factor, stress.

When you have what's called chronic

stress,

and the formal names for these models are

chronic social defeat stress and repeated

restraint stress.

These are stress models that were

developed in the eighties.

When were they applied to humanity?

In twenty twenty.

I'll let you connect the dots.

But when you're in a state of chronic

stress, hepcidin is rising.

The iron can't recycle properly.

We got to be turning over two and

a half million red blood cells every

second.

We got to get the two hundred billion

turned over every twenty four hours.

That's the recycling system that's so

central to our health and well-being.

And if we can't do that,

if the iron gets stuck in the recycling

system,

stuck in what are called recycling

macrophages,

which are Pac-Man macrophages.

They like to gobble up dying red blood

cells and then spit the iron back out

into the recycling system so it can get

back to the bone marrow so it can

be made into new red blood cells.

Two and a half million red blood cells

a second.

Those are big numbers, folks.

And so if that's not going well,

going to start to build up with iron

and it does accumulate and and it's very

well studied in the literature trust me

i've read thousands and thousands and

thousands of articles and i'm in shock at

what's available if you're if you're

industrious and know how to look for it

and it's just not being taught

Again,

that's the magic of medical schools is you

have research on one side and you have

the classroom on the other.

You would think that research just finds

its way over in the classroom.

No, it's a Chinese wall in between.

And they're very selective about what

makes it over that wall.

So we've been sold a bill of goods.

We have lost track of our ancestors'

ability to stay healthy.

They were eating real food.

They were eating food that was properly

mineralized,

had the right vitamins in them.

They were not being bathed in toxic

chemicals left and right.

The food wasn't being ultra-processed like

it is today.

And they were very vital and vibrant.

Let me give you a personal example.

day i was born my mom's dad was

i called him dada he was a great

man born in his father had been in

the civil war fought for four years from

waco texas to get back to frederick

maryland but dada grew up on a farm

Very successful.

And then he and his dad started a

bank and started a grain and feed

business.

They did a lot of work with the

farmers outside of Baltimore County,

Maryland,

in Carroll County and Howard County.

And when I was twenty years old,

Dada was ninety-two.

And we were weeding a hill that he

had on his property.

And I was whining about how hot it

was and how tired I was getting.

And Dada was like a machine,

just pulling out weeds,

just looking at me like,

what the heck is wrong with you?

And when I was twenty,

I was half the man I am today.

I mean,

I just I grew up on pop tarts

and sugar frosted flakes and snicker bars

and orange juice.

And we're all guilty of it.

I didn't know what I was doing.

And it wasn't until I was in graduate

school and I was working at Health and

Human Services and someone introduced me

to a book called Sugar Blues.

That book changed my life.

There was a reason why when I had

coffee and a glazed donut, I just crashed.

Well, now I don't do that.

I know better.

And so there's just some very basic things

that we can do to ensure our good

health.

And we've got to step out of the

paradigm of convention.

That's the most important thing is just to

know that there is a deeper level of

understanding.

We've not been taught all of the tricks

of the trade.

And we've got to be very careful about

the food we eat.

We've got to be very careful about the

nutrients that we have access to,

as we described them in the root cause

protocol.

We've got to dump our iron.

And we've got to deal with our emotional

stress.

And so the key to that is using

what are called emotional release

techniques like emotion code or EFT or

integrative processing technique or EMDR.

There's multiple channels for doing this.

But the beauty is releasing that fear

that the stress will never go away,

releasing that fear that your aches and

pains will never go away.

And that really wears us down.

And so we put tremendous emphasis on the

importance of not just the food,

but dealing with the iron and dealing with

the emotions.

So hopefully that gives people a little

bit more understanding about why this is

so important and how to access it through

the website.

And we have a premium community.

We get together twice a month.

questions galore.

And I'm just amazed at the questions that

people have.

But they're wonderful.

Several hundred people,

it's probably about four or five hundred

people in our premium community.

It's constantly growing.

And we have over a thousand graduates of

the RCP Institute.

My goal is to train ten thousand people

before I kick the bucket.

So I got to

Step it up a notch.

But the fact of the matter is we

are having an impact,

reaching more people.

And I'm just amazed at the receptivity of

the public to this very counterintuitive

and countercultural information because

they're getting the results that Billy's

talking about.

I feel better.

I'm able to do more.

I'm able to think better.

And that's really what it comes down to

is we want to be productive.

We want to feel like we have purpose

and that we can follow through on that

purpose.

But when you're worrying about your blood

sugars or you're worrying about your heart

disease,

you're worrying about your blood pressure,

how can you get productive?

How can you really unleash your talent?

And so that's what we're trying to do

is get people beyond all that worry and

get back to their purpose.

Well, Morley,

you've definitely moved the needle in a

big way for me.

I'm, you know,

the energy levels and a bunch of other

things that seem to be falling into place

right now.

And I'm only a month in,

so I'm going to be patient and,

you know, follow your protocol.

I just...

You know,

I first heard you on my buddy Seth's

show, and then I was like, okay,

I got to find out if this guy's

for real, man.

Is he really giving his phone number out,

or is somebody else going to answer the

phone?

And sure enough, you answered the phone,

and I was a little bit taken aback.

I was like, wow,

he really did answer the phone.

So, you know, Morley,

it's been really awesome.

Is there anything else you'd like to leave

the audience with?

I mean,

is there a way to contact you,

should they,

or did they just – are they –

People are welcome to email me,

morleyrobbins at gmail.com or call me, uh,

eight four seven nine two two eight zero

six one.

The offer is very genuine.

It's very real.

You know,

and I'd rather you call than email.

People send me these emails that are just

information.

And the first thing I do is call

them and say, okay, let's talk about this.

So everyone does have questions.

And I actually learned that technique from

a CEO client of mine because I used

to be a hospital consultant.

And I'll never forget the CEO was giving

out his business card and his cell phone

number.

And I walked up and I said, dude,

you're going to, he said, no.

He said, the more accessible I am,

the more discretion people use to reach

me.

And it was true.

And so you think that my phone would

literally ring off the hook.

Well, I get a lot of calls.

Trust me, I do.

And I really discipline myself to respond.

Whenever I can,

I will just answer the call.

And the first thing that happens on the

other side is they got to deal with

their hypoxia.

you actually answered and and then we have

a very engaging conversation but i'd

rather have people have access to the

information so they can decide do they

really want to do this do they really

feel confident in the process and in their

ability to follow through and that's

really that's why i'm here this is this

is my purpose and uh i i live

for these conversations with billy and

others i've had over four hundred

podcast conversations out on the internet.

And so you can wear yourself out listening

to me yammer for the last, gosh,

it's been at least ten years.

So there's a lot of information out there.

And I'm very grateful to have this

dialogue with Billy.

As you said,

we had a conversation about a month ago.

But I'm doing two or three of these

a week.

and just having a blast.

And as I said,

I'm going to be going across the pond

to do some face-to-face podcasts in the

UK.

And then I'm going to be going to

Poland, of all places,

because there's a publisher there that

wants to translate this book.

I can't wait to see what it looks

like.

This is in English, right?

And it's going to be in Polish.

And there's going to be podcasts and

conferences and meetings.

So it's going to be a very interesting

fall in Europe.

And I can't wait.

I live for this kind of exchange.

well you're you're definitely a gem out

there um man okay folks this is the

only guy in all that i've ever interviewed

that is actually doxing himself and

putting out his phone for everybody to

call usually people complain about such

things but uh morley's the real deal y'all

and you know it's been a joy to

be able to you know learn about his

work hey look folks really reach out to

him i mean his his information is moving

the needle in a big way for me

and my family

And you've got to be especially careful

and cautious in these times and healthy

most of all.

All right, y'all.

Until next time, stay alert, stay alive.

I'm grooving with the truth, truth, truth.

Feeling anxious, boo, boo, boo.

Who's got the answers?

All we need to do.

Listen to the earth, they've got us moved.

Watch the seeds of the shame,

watch the world spin.

From the smallest sprout,

the harmony begins.

In the cycle of life,

where the magic's alive.

Turn it to the beat,

feel the vibe and thrive.