EMILY ASKEW: I don't think the apps can do it without the

people. It's not just creators, but it's your advocates and your

educators. That is going to be super powerful for getting

people at the youngest possible age involved. I think it works

together as like a wider network with all other components.

ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Welcome to Wild Voices, a special series

from Wild Tales of inspiring conversations about people,

nature and the stories that connect us.

In this episode of Wild Voices, Ajay Tagala joins Emily Askew

and Ben Rumsby live at the Global Bird Fair to explore how

social media is changing the way people discover birds and

connect with nature. Together they discuss how a new

generation is engaging with nature and birds, the role

social media plays in conservation and how they manage

the challenge of balancing content creation with enjoying

the world of birding.

AJAY TEGALA: Hello and welcome to this very special Wild Voices

episode of Wild Tales from the National Trust. It's wonderful

to be live here at Global Bird Fair. I'm Ajay Tagala, Nature

Communicator and National Trust Ranger on Britain's very first

nature reserve, Wicken Fen, where I help safeguard important

wetland bird populations.

And today I'm very excited to be talking about social media and

its influence on birding with Ben Rumsby and Emily Askew. Ben

is a 19-year-old birder, naturalist and passionate

wildlife advocate whose enthusiasm for birds and

conservation has already earned national recognition.

And Emily is a wildlife conservationist, ecologist,

influencer and passionate advocate for connecting people

with the natural world. Through her platform Emily in Nature,

she shares her experiences exploring Britain's wildlife,

championing biodiversity and encouraging others to discover

and protect the nature on their doorstep. Thank you both for

joining me. It's great to have you both here.

EMILY ASKEW: Thanks for having me.

BEN RUMSBY: Thank you for having us.

AJAY TEGALA: Yeah, it's always great to be at Bird Fair and

have interesting people to talk to. And because we're talking

about social media, we're talking about birding, I thought

we'd start by kind of, I think I'll throw this one to you, Ben.

What kind of, how are young people discovering birding

online?

BEN RUMSBY: I think the main part of birding online is that

people are getting more connected. There's a guy from

Australia. He is making it into kind of a game. I think the fact

that we keep making it into a kind of game is attracting more

and more people. A lot of people, they reference it to

like kind of Pokemon and stuff like that. Kind of if you get

that collection aspect, we can get more, more, more like

togetherness with it as well. That's what I like, bringing

people together and that community engagement.

AJAY TEGALA: Uh-huh. Sharing things, getting competitive

maybe. Is it competitive for you?

BEN RUMSBY: Yeah, competitive is a good, good point actually.

With with EBird coming in through that's kind of made it

into I guess a leaderboard and you're able to share checklists

you're able to go birding together and you could be able

to compare lists as well I think that competitive aspect of it

definitely it gets a little bit more influence to go out birding

a bit more maybe you do that extra day that you wouldn't more

or less go out for if wasn't going to but I like the

competitive aspect of it.

AJAY TEGALA: That's great.

Yeah. And also it's kind of, it's bringing people together

electronically and then maybe meeting up in person as well.

BEN RUMSBY: Yes.

Yeah. So with the fact of WhatsApp groups being created

now, you're able to get more and more walks that are more youth

focused. So I know BTO Youth, they are doing much more young

birder focused walks and with collaboration of like RSPB. And

the fact that there's that opportunity for people to go and

meet like-minded people is so important.

AJAY TEGALA: For sure, for sure. And Emily, you're a user of apps

as well, aren't you? Birding apps. What are your experiences?

EMILY ASKEW: Really, to be honest, the first one that

really helped me get into birding and learn a lot was

Merlin Bird ID. I think that's the starting point for

everybody, really, and teaches you a lot.

That's the only one that I really use in my day to day. But

just on what we were just saying, it is really fascinating

to see how apps are now turning into like that game, which I

think is attracting people even younger. And it's a good way to

draw them in from a super young age, like the Pokemon Go thing.

I know there's like a new BirdX app out and it's the same

premise, which is fun and I've had a go with it.

But I'm a hard user of Merlin Bird ID to teach myself bird

song.

AJAY TEGALA: And you find that helps you to learn it and then

you remember it.

EMILY ASKEW: Yeah, 100%.

It might sound a little bit nerdy, but I use it and then

test myself to help me learn. So I'll get people to quiz me and

play bird sounds and then see if I can learn them. And it's

really, really helpful.

AJAY TEGALA: That's the best way to learn yeah because I mean for

some of us we're lucky enough to be kind of influenced and

positively encouraged by maybe a relative that has got that

knowledge that they can pass on to you but am I right, I'm

thinking you didn't necessarily have really birdy parents and

you found nature a bit later in life?

EMILY ASKEW: Yeah, I did. Completely new to me, I have

zero family ties or connections to nature. I went most of my

life with no connection really to nature.

I actually started University to study philosophy and politics.

So very, very different. But after a couple of months, I

dropped out to go back to uni to study wildlife conservation. And

that was on the basis of... A trip to Africa that I took the

year before and that's where I first, my eyes were just first

opened to wildlife and nature in a different way and then my

career changed from then and that was about 10 years ago.

AJAY TEGALA: Aha, a real life-changing moment.

EMILY ASKEW: Yeah. Yeah.

AJAY TEGALA: And for you Ben, it's sort of something you've

always been surrounded by?

BEN RUMSBY: Yeah, me and my dad, we definitely, I grew up in

basically living outside. I guess I was always in the

garden, looking at, starting at insects and then looking at

garden birds.

My dad really encouraged me and then I went to my local reserve

Rainham Marshes RSPB and by chance there was a young birders

walk that was happening that day so I went along with that and

from then on Howard Vaughan was leading them and every single

one from that point for the next six or so years until they

stopped in lockdown I went to nearly every single bird walk.

AJAY TEGALA: Excellent

BEN RUMSBY: I guess the the passion just grew from there and

you took off and once it was going it wasn't going to stop so

yeah.

AJAY TEGALA: Brilliant let's talk a bit more about social

media now and obviously you're that's quite a big part of your

world isn't it? and it's sort of it's a pleasure but also a

responsibility isn't it? so how do you find let's talk about

balance how do you find balancing social media and

enjoying nature in your life?

EMILY ASKEW: It can be quite difficult I think it's really

hard to find that balance between creating content and

using social media and just trying to enjoy the moment I

think it depends what happens sometimes you might see a really

rare and cool bird and you know if you're into bird watching you

know that sometimes you have about three seconds to see it

and then it goes so a lot of the time you don't really have a

choice to use social media on that but I think it's really

important that no matter what experience you've had if you're

using that platform to try and still return to it after the

moment's happened to tell a story about what's happened

because a

Really important part of using that platform is conservation

storytelling so it is quite hard but I always try and give quite

like a real perspective so most of my content is just filming

what I'm doing as I'm doing it it's quite easy with an

ecological job so I'll do a survey and I'll just talk about

it as I do it so it comes quite natural but I think that's

what's really effective and works well is because people get

to see a super like behind the scenes like insight into what

you're doing

AJAY TEGALA: For sure.

And just by the nature of your work, you're being outside,

you're being surrounded by it. That's how you stumble across

good things. And I guess for you, Ben, on the walks you're

doing, you're getting out there, you're not missing these walks.

You're in the environment and then you see things. When you

see something rare or special, is your first thought, let's

save at the moment or I need to log it on my app?

BEN RUMSBY: Well, it's different because I mean, I always go take

the opportunity to make sure I appreciate the bird.

But I do feel like sometimes I try and look through more of the

screen of a camera and I drift away from wanting to actually

look at the bird so I need to take myself back and actually

appreciate what I'm looking at instead of just looking through

a camera because I guess we get that fixation that I need to get

the perfect shot to then show on social media but if we if we can

actually take the time to talk about oh why is this bird

special why is it here that's that's quite an important aspect

to to look for and when when looking at rare birds

EMILY ASKEW: I think that's super relatable as well I think

there's been a couple of moments where you have to kind of like

bring yourself back out of like your phone because you just

think I have just witnessed this whole bird through my phone

screen and I've not taken it in and then you kind of feel a

little bit guilty.

BEN RUMSBY: Yeah

AJAY TEGALA: Yeah and you kind of touched on this already the

fact that sharing it in that authentic way you're also

naturally giving conservation messages as well and so

obviously social media is a way of reaching people but it's also

a really important platform for sharing those conservation

stories and those messages and obviously that's that's

something you're very conscious of and something that you you

you sort of embed naturally into everything you do would you say?

EMILY ASKEW: Yeah I think it's really important to do that I

think it's absolutely fine to just have a platform for a bit

of fun you know for some people it's not their career and it's

just a hobby and they just like being outside but I think once

you get to a point where you start building quite a big

following that are really watching like what you're doing

I think it's really important to use that platform to share

something positive and meaningful and educational

rather than just a bit of fun.

Because it's just a good opportunity to reach a lot of

people and try and educate them on really important conservation

issues.

AJAY TEGALA: And these are people that might not come

across these otherwise they might not be watchers of

wildlife programs or they might not be people that are that

aware or in tune with it so yeah it's a wonderful opportunity to

yeah it's sort of a privilege and a responsibility

EMILY ASKEW: Yeah it is and it is true that it does reach

people that wouldn't come across it it is one.

Of the best things about what I do with my platform is the

positive feedback I get especially from young people who

are starting out their careers and also people who are inspired

by the content and reach out to say they actually want to change

careers and they're inspired by what I do and what I show and

like how can they follow that pathway too.

So it definitely does reach people that it wouldn't have

reached otherwise. So it's a great way to connect with them.

AJAY TEGALA: Yeah. And it's great that that awareness of

conservation careers is growing. Because, I mean, there was a

time not so long ago when people weren't necessarily not many

people knew about having jobs like you've got.

EMILY ASKEW: Well, it's true. I mean, even when I started out,

I'm a late bloomer into the industry as you know. It just

wasn't an option to me before. It was never mentioned in sixth

form or anything. They just wanted you to go and do

something hard academic. I think if I knew about it earlier, I

would have been interested earlier and pursued that career

earlier.

So, yeah, it is something that they're not learning about a

lot. But hopefully with the future now, with the new

proposed National History GCSE, that will change for a lot of

people. And hopefully they'll get into it and have the

experiences that we didn't get to have when we was younger in

education.

AJAY TEGALA: Absolutely. And you're lucky that you're

beginning that path now aren't you you're studying ecological

degree?

BEN RUMSBY: I'm studying yeah ecology and conservation degree

at Exeter and I can say it's been amazing so far. I've only

just finished first year but it opens up such a new world and

going into the specific details of each going through each

different family and families that you won't really think of

as well because we go right from invertebrates all the way

through to vertebrates, and I just say it during school it was

always like hard geography hard biology they never really you

had the biodiversity components but it was more it was kind of

brushed over I feel. It was never a proper focus on you

could actually get a job out of this which I think is a shame

but now as you say with the new natural history with GCSE and

the awareness that is growing around ecological jobs in in the

market I think it is a step in the right direction. And yeah

it's making people make sure they know that this is available

to them is really important because it's I don't think it's

the fact that people don't want to do it sometimes it's just the

fact they don't know and the fact that they don't know is

just is it means they're not going to when if they have a

chance yeah take it.

AJAY TEGALA: Yeah and also there's there's sort of an old

stereotype that there's a certain kind of person that

birdwatches. And I know for many years that was kind of like the

stereotype was somebody a lot older. But now, I mean, it's

really cool. I know you've been kind of in a story in The

Guardian talking about this, how birding is becoming cool. That

must make it easier to share.

BEN RUMSBY: Yeah, definitely. It is definitely becoming more

acceptable. I mean, I felt maybe a bit shied away when I first

started birding, like as I knew maybe it wouldn't be seen upon

as cool. But when I then go on school trips and whatnot. And I

say to people, oh look, there's a sparrowhawk going through, or

there's some long-tailed tits in the tree, or there's a goldcrest

calling.

And then you explain that, oh, the goldcrest we have in this

country, Europe's smallest bird. It's like, we have that in this

country. And people just don't really take in what is around

us. And yeah, it's like, if you can make these people aware of

what was going on, they then appreciate it more and go, oh,

this is actually cool. I want to go look at more of this. Instead

of going, oh, this is just a bird that flies around and not

really appreciate it. But if you can yeah get get through some

people that are like this is what we have here and yeah

people will be more more accepting towards it.

AJAY TEGALA: And of course you you were amazed by wildlife

abroad that holiday you were in that trip in South Africa but

also you're very focused on sharing that British

biodiversity as well aren't you Emily?

EMILY ASKEW: Yeah I think that's a huge part of my page.

And I think even after having that experience of Africa when I

came back and started my degree in wildlife conservation, my

wildlife interest was probably still on more of an

international scale because at that stage you still associate

amazing wildlife with these amazing safaris and really

tropical countries. And even at that point I probably wasn't

even super interested in British wildlife.

And then actually going into the ecological sector in Britain,

it's been eye-opening and it's been amazing to actually spend

time in the British countryside and really appreciate what we've

got. And now I want to kind of share that with other people and

people will just might think it's pretty boring but like it's

it's really not it's so amazing and it's just as amazing as

these other countries and what you can see at home so that's a

huge part of what I promote.

AJAY TEGALA: Yeah, I do love your day in the life kind of

content and also marsh harrier chicks, marsh harriers, which

are wonderful birds. I'm a big lover of marsh harriers and love

your content sharing that.

EMILY ASKEW: It's been an amazing year and that is such a

good example of what you can actually find out there. That

was a shock to me. I mean, I had never seen a marsh harrier nest

before and I found two in one day in different locations and I

couldn't believe it.

And it's been really special to be able to share that with

people and especially the different life stages, has been

really fascinating. That's something that you just don't

get to see. So it's really special for people to see that

because they just wouldn't come across that.

AJAY TEGALA: Absolutely. And also Bird Fair brings people

together from all over the globe. And I know this morning

you were out walking with some people from other countries and

showing them birds like ospreys that they've never seen before.

BEN RUMSBY: Yeah, even just simple things like blue tit and

great tit. You don't think of stuff like that. But when you

come to a different country and then you show what we have here.

I reckon if something like a blue tit or great tit was a rare

bird, if you look at it properly, it's a stunning bird.

They are really cool.

I think stuff like that gets very much overlooked of what we

do have in this country. Even something as simple as a magpie,

if you catch that at the right sunlight and the right glimmer,

you get the proper sheen and the glossiness in the feathers. We

have some really cool birds in this country.

AJAY TEGALA: Yeah, and even pigeons as well. It's the same

thing. If pigeons were rare, you'd say, what a beautiful

bird.

BEN RUMSBY: Yeah, exactly.

AJAY TEGALA: Yeah, so that appreciation and that love that,

yeah, that's so infectious. Yeah. It's sort of like

birding's always been cool. It's just making people realize it

and connecting them to it.

BEN RUMSBY: Yeah, Yeah.

AJAY TEGALA: And of course, citizen science is part of that

as well. So are you a big kind of supporter of things like the

Big Garden Bird Watch and these kinds of things?

BEN RUMSBY: Yeah definitely.

AJAY TEGALA: And are apps helping to make those more,

getting more participation, would you say?

BEN RUMSBY: Yeah, I'd also say with that, especially with

eBirds, the fact that... It's a really good way to log

everything. It can bring people together. We have global big

days, everyone coming through their checklist and different

events that encourage people to go out birding.

So 30 Days Wild, I think, is an amazing, amazing idea. Just

people going out simply to appreciate nature for that

little bit of time each day. It's really, really eye-opening

and really nice.

AJAY TEGALA: And when it comes to these sort of citizen science

moments, you're obviously sharing them on your platforms

as well. Do you get people come to you and say, oh, I want to

kind of be an influencer like you and ask you for tips?

EMILY ASKEW: I do. I have had it a little bit, yes. People want

to know, like, how to get started. The main worry that

people have is just simply being a bit nervous, putting

themselves out there. I think people feel like you have to be

really front-facing. I guess I'm quite a face-on-the-page person

and I'm quite confident and comfortable.

Speaking to my camera and I think when you're starting out

that can be really scary so that's the best advice I try and

give people is just you're speaking to an audience that you

can't see I guess if as long as you're confident and you own

what you say. But if you're just starting out you'll be surprised

everybody's interested in what you've got to say so you've just

got to pretend nobody's watching and have a go.

AJAY TEGALA: And like you said earlier it's about being

yourself and being authentic isn't it and then that comes

across?

EMILY ASKEW: Yeah it is I think that is a worry that people have

that they... especially when you're starting out, you'll

probably try and compare yourself to other like

influences and creators that you're following.

And you'll think my content's not as good as them and I'm not

as confident as them. But it's not about that. It really is

about having your own like uniqueness and just being

yourself. And that's what converts better and what

responds better and is going to make that real like emotional

connection with people.

AJAY TEGALA: And we've heard you speaking with real emotional

connection just now.

You you're building a platform as well and building a following

and would you say your your confidence has grown over the

last few years?

BEN RUMSBY: Yeah I mean to be fair I've only properly started

doing a social media aspect since the start of getting to

uni because I thought I'm seeing all this amazing stuff I want I

want to show people what what is actually out here. Because I

switched to a lot more rock pooling since being down in

Cornwall because they we have the sea right on our doorstep

and we there's so much unique stuff around that area that you

wouldn't even think of. And yeah, I guess what I've been

trying to do is just show people what is actually around and what

you can see if you just take the effort to go outside and

actually have a look and take your time and just see what is

in your area.

Because you don't need to go to a massive reserve. It's just

standing in your garden. I mean, the amount of stuff you can just

get, just appreciating some butterflies coming down to your

flowers or some garden birds. Yeah, I think making sure people

are getting closer to nature is...

Yeah what I want to try and get out of it.

AJAY TEGALA: Absolutely and I think that's a really good point

and sort of relaxing into it as well and rather than going off

sort of trying to chase things if you just stay in one space

for a while and see what comes past it's amazing what you can

see. I've been doing breeding bitten surveys recently

BEN RUMSBY: Oh nice yeah

AJAY TEGALA: And that's great because once you know where

they're feeding, you kind of sit there and you know that sooner

or later they're going to fly past.

BEN RUMSBY: Yeah, they'll fly past.

AJAY TEGALA: Yeah, so I enjoy the first few feeding flights.

And then maybe on the third or fourth, I get the phone out and

think, I've seen it for real, now I'm going to film it.

EMILY ASKEW: So you're on enjoy the moment first, phone later.

AJAY TEGALA: Yeah, I think so.

BEN RUMSBY: It's a good way to go about it.

AJAY TEGALA: Yeah, yeah. But here's a question. We're talking

about how social media is having a positive impact and these apps

are sort of getting people involved. Do you think that apps

and social media can save wildlife?

EMILY ASKEW: Not on their own. I think it's all part of a wider

network and system that's needed. I don't think that apps

can do it without the people and not giving all the credit in the

world to creators. It's not just creators, but it's your

advocates and your educators. I think without those, the app is

just an app, I guess.

I think all of those elements have to work together. And as I

say, I'm not trying to give too much credit to creators, but

with the way the world will just keep moving year on year, we

know social media is just getting bigger and bigger.

So they are going to have more and more power to promote these

apps and work with them and try and get people into conservation

and birding through these apps, which goes back to just what we

were saying earlier about making them like games.

I think that is going to be super powerful for getting

people at the youngest possible age involved now. They're going

to play a huge part in it. And it educated me and is still

educating me. But I think it works together as like a wider

network with all of the components.

BEN RUMSBY: I think, yeah, I agree. It's a good starting

point. It's a good basis of this is how you can get people into

nature. But you want to keep people in nature. That's the

part that we need to do. It's a good...

Follow through and then say okay this is cool I want to continue

doing this and that's where I think other programs were

actually going on walks outside of the social media park. So I

think social media is a really good gateway but then continuing

through the actually meeting up in person going outside and then

you can also then loop it back around to social media and be

like this is what I saw this is what I got and then more people

get involved that's yeah I think as you say it's not going to do

it just on its own, but it's going to help in a big part.

AJAY TEGALA: Yeah and connecting people and obviously events like

this at Global Bird Fair where we see a lot of people that we

see online and they've heard about it online seen other

people's stories then they come together and this is something

else because we've actually got human interaction and people

sharing their experiences sharing their conservation

stories and that's when it becomes even even more real

doesn't it?

BEN RUMSBY: Yeah just meeting other like-minded people goes a

long way so I think that's where some people get lost with it so

people can grow up having that connection with nature, then

maybe switching into secondary schooling, not seeing as many

people that are in the same light. Oh, I also like nature.

And then they fall out of love with it.

And then maybe pick it up back later in life. But that bridge

of keeping people interested with events like this and

bringing people together and showing people that there's

other ones that like the same thing is, yeah, is really

important.

EMILY ASKEW: Events like this specifically I think are really

great. All you have to do is look around to see the age

diversity here is huge.

It's not just what people would stereotype birders to be

anymore, which is like your older generation. There's so

many young people here who are enthusiastic. So coming to these

events is great for those people because even if you think you're

the only person a little bit interested in it, you come here

and you'd probably be quite shocked and blown away by how

many youth are here which is really exciting

AJAY TEGALA: And that brings that feeling of belonging

doesn't it you see people that remind you a bit of yourselves

and you feel that kind of yeah unity and the fact that

EMILY ASKEW: Yeah yeah definitely

AJAY TEGALA: Part of a community but as you say part of a diverse

community with so much experience that can be shared

between people

EMILY ASKEW: Yeah definitely

AJAY TEGALA: And I was thinking about when you were talking

about that kind of connection, especially younger children.

I've sort of taken primary school groups out and sort of

watch their faces when they're pond dipping or watching birds.

And you see that joy and to be able to see that for real in the

flesh is really important. And I suppose gateway species for some

people, it might be a school trip.

For me, I think it was probably watching herons on the river.

That kind of was my way in. We'll start with Emily. Is there

kind of a gateway species for you?

EMILY ASKEW: I mean, for me, I'd have to put it to one of

probably the South African Big Five, because that's where my

journey started. So for me, probably giraffes. I think when

I was there, that was just the most I could not believe what I

was seeing and completely in awe and fell in love.

I would love it to be just a smaller, more underappreciated

British species, but that's just not the pathway I was on. So

pretty extreme for me, a giraffe.

AJAY TEGALA: But it started you off on a journey that then took

you to all these other species.

EMILY ASKEW: Yeah

AJAY TEGALA: And what about for you, Ben?

BEN RUMSBY: Yeah, one moment that sticks with me that I

remember is I was going, because we have a little meadow at the

side of the back of our house, and I was going bug hunting and

whatnot, and I saw my first ever wasp spider, and it was a proper

big female, and I remember seeing there and then watching

grasshoppers come along and then jump into the web, and the wasp

spider would come in, tighten it up, and then go back and sit on

another web, and you'd see another one coming, jump in the

web.

I sat there for a good half an hour watching the spider and I

remember from that on it was like I want to see more of this

I want to know what else and that's that's when I went to

Rainham and I went on the young birds walk and I remember seeing

a marsh harrier for the first time. He was sitting out the

back of the bus sign and it came right along the reed bed and it

was a nice female and it was like oh what what a bird from

then it was like yeah carried on.

AJAY TEGALA: We're all big marsh harrier fans at this table.

Yeah. But what about some of your friends that perhaps aren't

natural birders? What do they make of it?

BEN RUMSBY: Yeah, it's nice because I can see people that

are getting more interested as they're going outside. Even if

it's something as they're taking a little photo on their phone

and then send it to me and saying, what bird's this? And

then it just shows that interest is growing. They're actually

taking notice of what is around them.

So I've had people saying, oh, what's this? It's like, oh, it's

a nice goldfinch in the garden and whatnot. So, yeah, I mean,

that part of just that little bit of connection, you may not

have to go headfirst into it, but just having that awareness

of what is around you and noticing a bit more. Yeah, it's

pretty cool.

AJAY TEGALA: And Emily, I'm guessing your inbox is full of

lots of people asking you questions. What is this?

EMILY ASKEW: Not as much as you think, to be honest. I get quite

specific scenarios a bit more super detailed, like on an

ecological level. Like somebody's found this crazy

badger set and they've got X, Y, Z concern and what should they

do, what are they allowed to do, those kind of deep things. On

like a friendship group level, people definitely send me

pictures saying, what bird is this?

AJAY TEGALA: So we're kind of getting towards the end.

We've talked about can apps save the world? Obviously, yes, but

as part of a bigger thing. Do you think that social media can

turn viewers into volunteers that will help support

conservation?

EMILY ASKEW: Definitely, definitely. I think that is

something that literally does happen and I see through my

social platforms all the time. I really am inundated in my

message requests from just people wanting to know how they

can do that, how they can help, how they can actually do

conservation work and start that career.

Like hundreds and hundreds of people, so I see that that

genuinely happens.

So it is amazing to see the enthusiasm to get involved and

start volunteering.

I think some people early getting into the industry on the

flip side, volunteering can be quite a sensitive topic. I think

in conservation, as a heavily underfunded industry,

volunteering just isn't accessible for everybody and

isn't an option for everybody which is obviously quite

difficult.

So hopefully into the future, that is something. If

conservation can get more funding, then hopefully that

will be more of an option for everybody. But right now it's

not. But they're definitely interested. And if people could

afford to access that, then they would do more.

AJAY TEGALA: But hopefully with more people using these apps and

getting that interest, that grows that momentum that will

hopefully then attract that funding that is so needed. And I

know, Ben, you're at University Of Exeter and you said you've

got like 250 people in the same lecture with you so there is

that growing number of people doing these courses

BEN RUMSBY: Yeah I mean the amount of people that I'm seeing

coming in into the industry is is really good and all the

societies that we have now at University so we have Eco Soc

which is the main society going on. Then we have all the

branches off of it there's Marine Watch which delves into

the marine bioscience systems, there's also, there's a new

society that goes into all the schools, which is also good, and

goes into primary schools and shows, oh, this is what we are

doing at University.

And then sowing that seed young, so people can go, oh, I remember

when those people come in here, I want to go and do that. And

yeah, saying about the volunteering aspect of it, I've

started volunteering with Rainham Marshes, but you don't

have to volunteer with like a main organization.

There's also just submitting your own records of stuff, going

back to citizen science. If you see a load of butterflies in

your garden, do a butterfly count, send it into butterfly

conservation. If you do a moth trap, you can send in your

records to your county recorder.

If you're helping in that aspect of just growing databases of

what you're seeing, that is another way if you're not able

to physically get to somewhere like a main reserve, just doing

the records from your garden, putting your garden on the map

and saying, this is what I have in my area. This is a reason why

you should protect our area.

AJAY TEGALA: Yeah, that's brilliant. That's a great point

to end on. Sharing what you see and then sending it in to help

conservation, that is making a difference. Yeah. And that's

really empowering for people. And yeah, thank you so much for

joining me and to everybody for being here for this episode of

Wild Voices, part of Wild Tales.

You can follow us on Instagram @wildtalesnt and you can listen

to more episodes of Wild Tales on any podcast app of choice.

Thank you very much for listening, everybody. And thank

you, Ben and Emily, for being fantastic guests. It's been a

pleasure.

EMILY ASKEW: Thank you so much for having me.

AJAY TEGALA: Thank you.

BEN RUMSBY: Cheers.

ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Thanks for listening to this episode of

Wild Voices from Wild Tales. We hope you enjoyed the

conversation. We'll be back soon with more inspiring stories and

conversations from the world of nature. In the meantime, you can

follow us on Instagram At Wild Tales NT. For behind the scenes

moments from this conversation at the Global Bird Fair, along

with plenty more nature stories and adventures. Until next time,

goodbye.