Anne Genduso: She's in debt, she hasn't made a cent, and she's convinced this

business will make her a multimillionaire.

Welcome to Nothing Felt Wrong, where we share stories about scams, deception,

and manipulation, and how ordinary people get pulled into situations

that feel believable until suddenly,

they don't I'm Anne Genduso, and if you're fascinated by deception and

human behavior, take a seat next to me here at the Side- Eye Society We like

to think we're buying things because they're useful or we simply want them.

But often we're buying the story around a product or service.

It can be the lifestyle aspiration, the identity, the promise, or even the

trust we attach to the name on the box.

And it isn't always what it seems.

Today we're looking at three Reddit stories where marketing may have been

more powerful than the thing being sold.

Joining us is someone who spent over a decade building marketing

and advertising campaigns.

Now she peels back the curtain that covers marketing deception and advertising

lies, and traces them back to where they start in her podcast, Lies We Bought.

Join me in welcoming Emily Rask.

So Emily, thank you so much for joining me today.

I'm so excited to have you

here

Emily Rask: Thank you so much for having me.

I'm so excited.

I have not done this with Reddit stories yet, so I'm really excited to hear them.

I've seen a couple of podcasts where they do it, and then that

you, like, get the reaction after.

So can't wait to see

Anne Genduso: It'll be fun, and the best part is you don't

know what these stories are,

Emily Rask: I do not.

Anne Genduso: before.

and we absolutely love your podcast.

It's amazing.

So before we jump into the Reddit stories, I'd love to hear from you what are some

of the biggest lies we've been sold?

Emily Rask: Oh my goodness.

There's so many.

I feel like every time that I come up, not come up with a new one or, like when

I'm starting to research 'cause there are so many slogans or cultural moments that

have happened that you're just like, "Oh yeah, I'm so used to this," or whatever.

And then when I start actually researching it and being like, is

this going to make for a good episode?

I just … I'm getting so much more angry the more that I do this

because it's like I feel like I'm ruining people's childhoods which

is w- I just started a new campaign about ruining people's childhoods.

Um, but I mean, so y- My first ep- episode that I ever did was Breakfast

Is The Most Important Meal Of The Day.

It was created by Edward Bernays who was the nephew of Sigmund Freud, and

he's the father of public relations.

You know, he did things like, um, he worked with Lucky Strike and

did, Torches of Freedom where for an Easter day parade he had women

that he hired, even one of them was his, uh, assistant or his secretary.

That's what they called them back then.

Um, and then he hired the press, and he had these women walk in an Easter parade

smoking cigarettes, and then he was like try to make it this whole feminist

movement of like, look, you're free now.

These are torches of freedom because back then it was frowned

upon for women to smoke in public.

So Lucky Strike was missing out on half of the demographic.

So of course what are they gonna do?

They're gonna make it look like it's completely acceptable now to smoke in

public, and make it like this whole feminist movement when in reality it was

a, it was a public relations campaign.

the first episode I did was Breakfast Is The Most Important Meal Of

The Day which he coined that term because he was trying to sell bacon

for Beech-Nut Packing Company.

And so he went to doctors, and he was like, "Would you say

a hearty breakfast is good?"

And they were like, "Well, yeah." He's like, " Ah, see.

It's good." And so then he started saying it, and also coined the term,

like four out of five doctors recommend.

That was him as well.

Um , and then I think one of the more recent ones Is probably

This Is Your Brain on Drugs.

just because for the fact I do have people in my life that are sober that I

love very dearly, and there are so many mechanisms when it comes to addiction

and w- why people have it, like, you know, trauma or mental illness or

whatever it is, a coping mechanism or what- ever it is that they're doing.

And to learn that it wasn't, like, thoughtfully a put together

campaign, because they closed the door on the question, right?

It's like, um, "Any questions?" is the very last line that they use, and

that's not like a… That's not like a, like, this is your brain, this is

drugs, this is your brain on drugs.

Any questions?

That's not an open-ended question.

That's like a no, this is your brain on drugs, you're not gonna do it.

But it was a bunch of admin on Madison Avenue that created it, and they wanted

to sell sobriety the same way that they sold cars or deodorant or whatever it was.

They didn't go to neuroscientists.

They didn't go to doctors who specialized in mental health.

And there's a lot of campaigns that are like that that haven't

done research or talked to people.

Um, and so that one kind of opened my eyes.

I was like, oh.

And then they're a bunch of ad men so they got billions of dollars of

free advertisement with NBC, CBS, all these newspapers, and then they

were getting paid by the legal drug companies like the tobacco companies,

the pharmaceutical companies.

All of these companies were paying them money to continue to do it.

So it's like it's so backhand- Like it's … It made me really

mad just to see . I get…

Anne Genduso: Right.

It is.

It's,

'cause you think that like it's genuine and, and

Emily Rask: Ja

Anne Genduso: seeing those commercials when I was a kid, and it w- well, I will

tell you, it scared the crap out of me.

So like, I was just like, "Okay. Oh my gosh, there's a fried egg." And

Emily Rask: Sure

Anne Genduso: But to know that there was no true, data behind…

Like, you know what I mean?

Emily Rask: Yeah

Anne Genduso: was illustrative for sure,

Emily Rask: Yeah

Anne Genduso: know that they were just kinda doing it and, and then

seeing all the, uh, what I'm, what I'm calling as lobbying behind

Emily Rask: Sure.

Yeah.

Anne Genduso: From, Big Tobacco and all that.

Emily Rask: but the other thing is, is that it's also harmful to do something

like that because if you're a kid and you're like, "Oh man, my brain's gonna fry

if I try a drug," and then they smoke weed and they're like, "Wait, my brain didn't

fry." you're like, "I'm dead." You know?

Yeah, but yeah, and like, I mean, they're doing the same thing with vaping now.

Um- Yes … again, there are things that can kill you or like fentanyl,

like it's all gonna be fear marketing.

Yes, they can absolutely kill you, but there's so mu- I, I don't have

the answer to what they should do because I'm not a scientist or a

neuroscientist or anything like that, but they should, uh, do campaigns much

differently instead of fear marketing.

I've said this before, fear marketing is so lazy.

It's so lazy.

Like, I'm gonna make you so scared that you're not gonna wanna do it.

I'm like, boring.

Try something new

Anne Genduso: Well, and then of course when I was scared as a kid, I'm thinking

back to that campaign where like I was scared at the time when I was really

little, but then when you're older you're just like, "Okay, whatever,"

and you kind of roll your eyes at

Emily Rask: Yeah

Anne Genduso: it's like, it doesn't even really, necessarily gonna

work the way they want them to

Emily Rask: Yeah.

Yeah, but if some, if a kid does smoke weed and they're like,

"Ah, my brain didn't fry, so heroin's gonna be fine." So,

Anne Genduso: or s- yes.

Emily Rask: so that's, that's the problem

Anne Genduso: they could, they could do it and they could say, "Well,

I've already messed up now, so what's the point? Let's go to heroin."

Emily Rask: Yeah

Anne Genduso: You know what I mean?

Like, I've messed up with weed, so who

Emily Rask: Yeah.

I need something more that's going to numb what's going on instead of

addressing the issue of why I do it.

So

yeah

Anne Genduso: Oh, fear marketing.

Yeah.

That's used a lot, and we, as we know, and we'll be getting into today,

there's different-- The whole point is, right, drawing on different emotions.

can be a very strong, powerful motivator, um, but there's so many

other ones too, and it can be positive.

It can be aspirational too.

Oh, absolutely.

I love honest marketing.

I just did a little story.

Um like I, like I said, I'm launching the I'm Gonna Ruin Your Childhood.

I did it on uh carrots and how carrots are supposed to make you see at night

. And I was like, "This is the coolest story." But I like-- that's fun marketing.

I mean, you're definitely lying to people, and yes, carrots are benefit,

like benefit you, and if you're deficient in vitamin A then you're

not gonna see as well at night.

But like stories are cool.

I like that they build stuff to like trick people in that aspect

'cause it's kinda funny now.

But yeah, there's other stuff like Oatly.

Oatly, I like their honest marketing.

They built a page and it's fckoatley.com and every single let's say transgression

or whatever that they've been caught in, like they worked with BlackRock for

a minute so they're like, "We worked with BlackRock and here is all the

information," and they literally spell out every single thing that people have gone

ag- like been like, "You did this and you did that", and they're like, "Here it is.

It's right here.

Go ahead and look at it" and they give all the information.

And for me I'm like, I love that.

Like no matter how you feel about the company, they're giving it all to you

and they're not hiding anything, so

the transparency.

I didn't know that.

Thank you for sharing that.

I'm gonna have to look into that now.

Emily Rask: Yeah.

Anne Genduso: Wow.

So they give it to you, and they don't necessarily apologize

for it though either, right?

Or are they saying like, "This is what happened, and now we're doing

something differently," or do they just say, "This is what happened"?

Emily Rask: I think it's more kind of like my show where they're like, "Here are the

facts, you can decide for yourself." So

Anne Genduso: Okay.

Emily Rask: I think it's more along those lines.

Because anything can be construed any way, right?

Like, you're gonna see coconut oil is so bad for you, and then it's

like, okay, who paid for that study?

And it's like, oh, the canola oil company paid for that study.

You can buy any, you can buy any headline honestly.

Anne Genduso: this is new.

That's the, that's the

that's like so fascinating in watching your podcast and, and like listening I

mean, been doing this for years, right?

Pharma companies have been doing it… Uh, I think it as far back as--

I mean, it's gotta be farther than this, but I know remember like reading

about things from the 1800s that they were commissioning studies to

have things come out in their favor.

Emily Rask: Sure.

Yep

Anne Genduso: where it's kind of fun to look back, and I wish

we had more documentation 'cause I'm sure like the ancient Romans

were probably doing this just in

Emily Rask: Oh, sure.

Anne Genduso: but obviously we don't have all that, uh, documentation

that we can look back and, and say how long it's been happening.

Emily Rask: Well, even all the stories.

I mean with history like whose perspective was this told from?

Like who… You know what I mean?

'Cause everybody has a different perspective.

That's why maybe, I mean The Bible, I haven't- I, I grew up Mormon but I

haven't read The Bible in, in years.

But I mean they do have the different perspectives in The Old Testament of

all of the different like Matthew, Mark, Luke and so those are different

perspectives and they're, they're kind of similar but again, yeah

Anne Genduso: Yeah, it's fascinating.

all right, well, let's dig in

okay, so story number one is entitled: When Did Hiking Trails Become a

Place to Recruit MLM Customers?

this source was from Reddit user alternative-volts435.

Okay, they say, "Was finishing up a hike last weekend, taking some shots

of the view before heading back down.

My was doing his usual thing, being extremely photogenic without trying.

A woman stopped to pet him, which is normal, happens all the time on trails.

But within two minutes she had gone from asking about his breed to telling me

she works from anywhere she wants and just got back from a retreat in Sedona.

I did not ask about any of this.

Then came the part about how she sells supplements that help with energy

and joint health, and she was looking at my dog when she said the joint

health She was pitching pet wellness products through her Plexus business.

She handed me a card with her name and a QR code and said something

about how people who love the outdoors make the best brand partners because

they have an authentic lifestyle.

The trail was the audience.

My dog was the prop.

I was the lead she was qualifying.

I've noticed this is becoming a specific tactic, finding people

mid-hobby when their guard is down, and they're visibly enjoying something.

It's harder to brush off when someone just pet your dog.

Has anyone else gotten cornered like this somewhere that felt like genuinely

off limits context for a sales pitch?

Emily Rask: Oh my gosh, I'm already fired up.

Tell me more.

99.9% hate supplement companies, and I 100% hate L- MLMs.

Man, MLMs are so good at marketing and they take the most vulnerable people who--

They sell them this future of like, "If you sell this many supplements you're

gonna have this l- like lavish grand life. Like look how good my life is."

And then 99% of them actually end up spending money instead of making money.

There is a person very close to me in my life, and I absolutely love her, and

she falls for this over and over and over again, and they are getting very,

very smart about how they're marketing.

Her, um, uh, manager or whatever that they're called, the person that's above

them on the pyramid, uh, wanted her to use the life story 'cause I have, um, foster

siblings and I was, uh, taken out of the home and put in her home, and th- they

wanted to use all of our stories to sell her supplements, and I shut that down so

fast because I was like, "This is insane.

We have never publicly spoken about this, and you're gonna use my childhood

or my life to sell a product that I don't believe in." And it's very sick

because they make it sound so good, and so now they're trying new tactics and

I've never heard of them doing this.

And to me as a marketer I'm like that is brilliant because you're going to somebody

in their environment where they're like, "Oh someone likes my dogs," and it's

like, " Well if you really like your dog then this is what you should be doing to

make sure that your dog gets the best."

Like it-- That's, like, that's like guilt marketing, right?

It's like, "If you don't do this for your dog then your dog is gonna

be… Like maybe he's gonna have joint pain or maybe this." Ja,

And the, the problem that I have with supplement companies is that

they are not regulated by the FDA.

The FDA does not come into supplement companies until somebody dies or

somebody gets hurt or whatever it is.

You can go from having an idea for a supplement to having it on the shelf in

three months, and if it's a proprietary blend you don't even have to put on

what is in th- what, what is even in it.

So you can say it's a proprietary blend.

So people could be allergic to a factor that's actually in the supplements

not knowing because they're not saying the amount that's in it.

Um, they can also say it's got ginseng in it, and yeah there could

be but there's like such a small amount that it doesn't do anything

and most of it's just caffeine.

A lot of the supplements also come from like India or China and they

come from warehouses that are really bad, and most of them are just

like prepackaged or packaged and then somebody puts a label on it.

It's kinda like Alibaba.

Um, and so if you d- if you do buy supplements, because I do take

supplements, I live in Washington State, I have to take vitamin D. There's

like - the sun does not reach here.

But if you do, if you look for like NSF or USP stamps on it,

that means that they were tested and what's in them is accurate.

So yeah.

I, I did a whole episode on supplements and I'm- and now my, my husband's like,

"I'm gonna go get some ashwagandha." I'm like, "Give me your package

and let me see," and I was like, "Nope, you're buying this one now."

Anne Genduso: He's lucky to have you though, right?

'Cause like you know all this.

'Cause this is so… I think the average person doesn't realize it.

And then there's also the things that are kinda like supplements,

but they are marketed as food, like for example, Orgain.

I was drinking Orgain, which is like the protein powder,

my coffee every single day.

every day because I was like, "Oh, easy way to get more

protein," blah, blah, blah, blah.

Did it every day.

And they, you know, I didn't realize it fell under the supplement

category not the food category, and therefore wasn't regulated and

sorts of things that came out last November about like

heavy metals being in them.

And now there's a current lawsuit, against Costco in particular, which I'm not sure

why, but there's a class action against them for carrying it, um, misrepresenting

saying it was something healthy for you when there's heavy metals in it.

So needless to say, I do not currently have Orgain anymore.

But that's the thing, like I don't know.

It could be fine or it could be like small amounts, but it's like you

just don't even know what to trust.

Emily Rask: Yeah.

Well, that's why like it's hard for my show and everybody's like, "Why don't

you have sponsors yet?" I'm like, "'Cause I'm so picky." I have turned down so

many sponsors, and most of them have been supplements, and I'm literally-- I

literally will reply back with my episode.

Like, you didn't do much research, did you?

I don't like supplements.

They're… Yes, I take them, but they are like verified supplements.

I'm also pissed off because Thorne just sold too, and that's what I used to

use.

Not saying typically when like Proc- Procter & Gamble had purchased them.

So bigger company, it's the same thing with like any food, right?

So like I know.

massive sp- Pepsi or whoever owns all of the spaghetti, they purchased -- I

can't remember who purchased Rose.

Rouse?

R-A, R-… Yes, I

Yeah.

I was so excited.

They got, they got purchased, and it's like they don't care how

much money they're spending on it because no matter where you go in

the pasta aisle, you're still gonna be buying their s- their supply.

So gonna be cheaper.

They're gonna have to make up their profits, so all of the

ingredients are gonna be cheaper.

It's not gonna be the same.

This happens every time something gets purchased.

So yeah.

So now I'm like, oh crap, Thorne.

Like here we go, because it's going to Proctor & Gamble.

But Okay.

Oh, well, you heard it here.

Thank you, Emily, for giving us that scoop.

I didn't

Yeah.

Just look for y- for USP or NSF And you're, you're pre-

You're typically pretty safe because those have been tested.

Um, I'm wondering if Costco is getting sued because there was a while ago,

and I believe it was the New York State attorney, they actually … And it was

a huge article where they went to like GNC and Walmart and a couple of other

places and they were testing materials that were in the actual capsules.

And instead of St John's wort it was beetroot powder.

And so they were putting different things in there and not saying… There

was like no St John's Wort in there.

And so people who might be allergic to beets could die.

don't… Right.

Yeah, or get sick like 'cause you're slowly dosing yourself

every single day but um, yeah

Anne Genduso: Yeah, it's scary.

Um, but yeah, like I think this, this meeting somebody on the trail where you're

literally hiking, your guard's down,

Emily Rask: Yes

Anne Genduso: that would be so invasive to me.

I'd be very mad actually if

Emily Rask: Yeah.

Well, I don't know.

These days my guard's way up, so I'd be like, "Who's approaching me?"

Anne Genduso: I think that when you're in your happy place, when

Emily Rask: Yeah.

Anne Genduso: when you're either

Emily Rask: Yeah.

Anne Genduso: that's, that is the place my guard would go down.

I'd be like, "What?" But, "Oh, wait." ' Cause I already get hit up looking at

my phone by, like, spam constantly.

And like

just

Emily Rask: Yep

Anne Genduso: sales opportunity, another spam coming at me,

now it's in person, and I'm just trying to walk my dog.

Emily Rask: Yeah.

I would just start yelling, "Not friendly," 'cause I have pit bulls.

I don't wanna talk to anybody.

Anne Genduso: I should do that.

Although my dog is like a chihuahua

Emily Rask: mix, so it's

Oh.

Yeah, that's a little different.

My dogs, uh, I mean, well, chihuahuas do bite more than pit bulls.

I- that is a, that, there is a study on that.

Be like, "She's not friendly." And meanwhile

Right?

Be like, "Yeah, come touch me."

my goodness well let's, let's move on.

Anne Genduso: Oh, wait, I did have a comment.

I have to tell you 'cause there was a comment on this one.

was hilarious.

Emily Rask: Okay

There was a comment that somebody wrote in there, and they said, "Where I live

in the US, bears are venturing into the cities more often because of drought in

the mountains reducing their food supply.

This would be the reverse.

The Huns have overrun the aisles of Walmart and Target, so they are

having to move into the mountains to find new customers and recruits.

Oh my gosh, that's so funny.

Yeah, that's very true

Anne Genduso: Also, I think it's-- I didn't know until seeing, 'cause I,

when I was doing the research here, I didn't realize people call people

who do MLMs huns, like H-U-N-S.

hadn't

Emily Rask: I didn't either.

Ma- and I wonder why they call them huns.

Do you think it's because, like, your long lost person that you went

to high school with suddenly, like, pops up on your Facebook Messenger

and is like, "Hey hun, how you doing?

Been a long say

they think I'm fun all the time to be friends with you.

Yeah, that's funny.

I've never heard them called that.

I'm gonna have to look that up.

I am gonna do an episode on MLMs, Hmm.

so do a whole series on that.

Ja.

Anne Genduso: love it.

All right, so this is story number two, and it is entitled Can Anyone

Tell Me Anything About Impact Global?

And the source is Reddit user CarlSolomonViolets.

And they said: My sister is working for Impact Global, and she's trying

to tell me how great it is and how it's not a scam, and it's a good MLM,

etc. I've tried to tell her it's the same as all the others she's done.

This is her third network marketing/travel and wellness business

she's owned, in quotes, in two years.

I cannot find anything about them online aside from a brief mention on another

post in this sub and social media of other people pushing this company.

I need info, stories because she seems to think that this is so great, but

she's taking out loans and going into debt for their products and mandatory

business trips, the while has kids at home and is living on assistance

and handouts from the few people she can scam from as the only income.

I'm trying to prove to her that it's not legit, and she's not going to be a

multimillionaire in five years by doing all this like they convinced her she will.

And she and her partner will need to get legit jobs.

She won't listen to me because I couldn't find much of anything

when I was looking it up.

So according to her, that just shows how legitimate it since there aren't

any negative reviews or posts.

Even without having made a cent and only going into debt in the

near year she's been doing this

Emily Rask: Yeah, you're never gonna convince them otherwise.

I've tried for years.

I mean, it's cultish, right?

It's the whole… I'm sure that they use the… I know that there's lines.

I don't know the lines 'cause I've never done it, and I don't let people use lines

on me that have done it in my family.

Um, but it's like you gotta spend money to make money, you know what I mean?

Like, you just have to… You know, you have to, you have to buy, and then

when you get more people, like you're such a friendly person, you kind of

like have to like buff them up and be like, " No, you're so great at this.

You're doing well."

Like, "This is what you can do, and this is what you can do." Um, yeah, I, uh…

That's really sad because I felt whoever wrote that, because of my family member

that does it, I'm just like I totally know exactly how they're feeling 'Cause

you, you just wanna shake them and be like, "They are taking advantage of your

vulnerability," because this person is having a really hard time financially.

And in their head, they are going to make so much money from this because

they're gonna b- like be able to sell so much because of how they feel.

I think that most of them are placebo effects which is… Look,

if it makes you happy, if it makes you feel good, I am all for that.

I'm all for people being happy and like finding something

that helps them lose weight.

But like you're taking a supplement and then they say, "Okay, but you need to

eat this every day, and then you need to go for a walk every day" And I'm like

what is the part that you changed in your life besides taking the supplement?

Was it eating differently?

Was it going for a walk outside and like clearing your brain?

Because those are really good things by themselves.

And so there's always the stipulation of like here take this, but you

also have to add these things onto it, and that's why you feel good.

I'm not saying that there aren't, there isn't stuff out there, but I would say

again 99.9% of the time probably not.

Anne Genduso: Yeah do you think makes people, what is the marketing, like

the messaging that they're doing that makes people wanna come back

and do, try a different one if they don't… Like, this is the third one

that this user's sister has done.

Like, and you said your family member has done it.

Emily Rask: Ja

Anne Genduso: it is that, like, is appealing?

Is it, is it just that hope?

A-

Emily Rask: Ja

Anne Genduso: and they're just like, "Well, that pro- that one

didn't work, but this one will?"

Emily Rask: Yeah, I would think so.

I would absolutely think so.

I also have found, um, in researching… Like, I haven't

fully researched it, but that a lot of times they are s- stay-at-home

moms, so it's a side job, right?

That can help bring in extra money so that it doesn't burden your husband and

you can help supply for your family.

Like as a mom, you're going to wanna take care of your family, so they're,

they're doing aspects like, "It's gonna be so easy. It's just like talking to

your girlfriends." Like, it's so easy.

It's not that much work.

Um, there's also the factor of there's a lot of people that are in churches,

especially in the Mormon religion, that are very susceptible to this because

why would you not believe someone that's also a Mormon that has the

same values and practices as, as you?

And this can go for any type of Christianity or whatever,

Catholicism, whatever.

You know, why would you not believe them?

Because y- you guys have the same values and morals.

Why would you think that they weren't selling you something

that wasn't good for you?

So I think that it's, it's culturally I think it has an effect on it, but I

think also the manipulation of being like, " You're not gonna be a good

mom if you can't support for your kids or your family, or take some

of that burden off of your husband."

That's why I thi- I don't know what the percentage is, but I would say

it's going to be overwhelmingly female that are in these MLMs.

And I think that, that they, they tug on those factors of

like, you can be the caretaker.

The person that does it in my family, she's, uh, sent me

a video, and she's Mormons.

Mormons don't drink coffee.

And she sent me a video and she's like, "Will

you watch this video?

It's seven minutes long.

Um, I'm really struggling.

Can you tell me what you think?" And I saw the first like two seconds of it,

I'm like, "I'm not even gonna watch it.

I already know what it is." And I sent her like this massive paragraph,

and I was like, "First off," and I go, "I love you, but I am so

sad that you continue to do this."

And I just said my piece.

And, um, she came back with, um, "I have a hard time with the coffee part." And I

was like, oh, see, it's just deaf ears.

Like, the whole thing is, is that there's a new supplement that she's

selling that h- that you have to drink it in coffee or something like that.

And,

I see.

and so her, her, yeah, so her whole thing was that she would have to sell

coffee, but she doesn't drink coffee.

And so she would be… That's going against the, her values and morals

when it's tied to the Mormon Church.

And so I'm like, hmm, that is a stipulation, isn't it?

Like, but I believe she is trying to sell it.

And so then I'm like, you're kind of… You're not practicing

what you're preaching.

No?

Right?

So yeah, uh, definitely they, they, they prey on the vulnerable

Anne Genduso: Sure.

And, and I think you said it best, you know, is that credibility borrowing?

or

Emily Rask: Yeah

Anne Genduso: uh, within your religion or it's your neighbor that you trust or

whoever it is, because MLMs are so much-- so heavily relying on word of mouth

people you know within your network, your trusted network.

when you're gonna think like, " Well, why would they me wrong?"

Why… They are saying that they're making money off of it,

they're using the talking points that the MLM gave them.

Even… A-and I don't wanna say like they're lying, 'cause they

may actually believe it too.

Like right, they think that they're like, "Yeah.

Well, look at, I am gonna make money," or, "I do have…" 'Cause they have five new

people they signed up, but they are not take-- maybe taking into account the fact

that how much they've already invested into it or gone to these mandatory trips

and how much that costs and all that.

it may not even be purposely duplicitous, you know, so they're

borrowing that credibility or using it on the, the word-of-mouth marketing.

Emily Rask: Yep.

Which is the best type of marketing that you can have, right?

Your friend tells you something and you're gonna be like, "Ooh, I

should go, I should go try that." Absolutely if it's helping you I wanna

try it 'cause you can't buy that.

Like, I can't put out a marketing campaign right now for Lies We Bought..

I come on podcasts so other people know about me, and

that's kind of word of mouth.

But I can't go out there and like… I mean, I guess I could pay influencers

to lie but I would never do that.

Be like, "This podcast is so good you guys, go check it out." I'd be like,

"No, listen to it and then tell me.

Be honest, I don't care.

If you don't like it, it's fine.

I'm not for everybody.

It's okay Right.

Anne Genduso: Well, I'm gonna read you, I think I have, um, a couple

of comments on this one too.

So they did their research and this person said, "It looks like Impact Global is

actually a group within Amway or a spinoff

with Amway.

I discovered this by visiting the WayBack Machine and examining their

2019 snapshot of the site which

Emily Rask: Hmm

Anne Genduso: uh, did a redirect right to Which is just wild to me 'cause,

like, if that's the level of research you have to do to figure out how,

like, they rebranded or whatever they

Emily Rask: Yeah.

Anne Genduso: crazy.

Emily Rask: I mean, that's, that is smart of Amway though.

Anne Genduso: Right.

Emily Rask: Lose, lose cred- lose credibility on this,

repackage and do it on this

Anne Genduso: Right.

And then this comment said, " A real job would never have you

go into debt just to start it.

They're taking her money.

She'll never see it again.

But you can't help someone who doesn't wanna be helped.

Do what you can, but don't feel like a failure if you can't convince her.

Just make sure not to support her financially."

Emily Rask: Yep.

I completely agree.

I said my piece and I put it to bed.

Like, I know that the person that I sent it to, th- they're never gonna change.

That… It's kind of one of those things where it's like,

"You know, I'm not your parent.

I'm not your mom.

This is your decision.

You're a grown adult.

It's unfortunate, and I hate seeing you struggle, but that's…"

It's kind of a tough love thing.

Like, I've said my piece, and that's it, and I'm not gonna… I mean, it, it,

it weighs on me a little bit, but it's not… I'm, I'm not gonna do anything,

and I'm never gonna give money, so

Anne Genduso: You can just choose what you're gonna, you know, you could still

be friends with a person, you could still

Emily Rask: Yeah, absolutely

Anne Genduso: have to necessarily buy their product from there.

Emily Rask: Yeah, absolutely.

They're always gonna be around.

They will always be around

Anne Genduso: Yeah.

I know, that's the thing.

It's like they're, when it's not one, right?

If

Amway, they're just gonna rebrand and have another name or,

have a brand new product,

Emily Rask: I think it's also, like community that we're in a loneliness

epidemic and so- Mm-hmm …I think that it's everybody wants to belong to

a community and so that's why social media is so prevalent because everybody

feels like they're apart whether like selling on TikTok there's like those

TikTok communities or we have the podcast community And everybody wants to feel

a part of some type of community and so that's where like because you go on weekly

calls and you get pumped up and you get all this stuff So you feel like you're

a part of something and you're making a difference and so 'cause it We're in a

loneliness epidemic i think that a lot more people are way more susceptible to it

Anne Genduso: And then I think obviously with online too, just having things

online and being con- if you can connect through Zoom and connect in different

ways that you couldn't 20 years ago.

well, I mean, there was, there was the internet 20 years ago, but

it wasn't necessarily like the,

Emily Rask: It was dialing.

You were yelling at your sister to get off the phone?

Anne Genduso: You know, like the video calls the same type of connection.

Um, but yeah, you, you make a really good point and I, I wouldn't be surprised.

I have not done this research, but I wouldn't be surprised that if since the

pandemic these have skyrocketed because I could see that being a time that people

really wanted that kind of connection.

Emily Rask: I would bet, yeah.

I've seen… I, I have a f- a couple of, of acquaintances on my Facebook that I've

seen that have done MLMs over and over again, and just like their inspirational

posts every single day, and like being very open about their background y- of,

you know, they were a drug addict and now they're sober, and they're sober because

of this lifestyle, and all of this stuff.

So it gives hope.

Like, I- and, you know, it can turn a lot of people's lives around.

Um, I'll, I'll, I'll say the good when there's good, but again,

they're preying on people who have vulnerabilities You're so right.

All right, so

Anne Genduso: let's move on and go to the next

so story number three.

this one's entitled: "Wyndham Timeshare/Vacation Share or

Club Owner is Mix of Lies.

Don't Fall For It," and then in parentheses, "August twenty-twenty

six experience." And the source is Reddit user gas_sufficient.

Um, so this is brand spanking new.

Wyndham timeshare or vacation share is a mixed package of lies.

They hide many things and start lying if you grill them on any particular thing.

Don't fall for it.

Wife and I were lured into the same BS, but luckily something felt wrong for me.

told my wife the night we came back to the hotel after signing the contract and asked

her if we were blindsided by something else, and we had di-decided in a hurry.

It was twelve thousand five hundred points, which is twelve nights worth, for

twenty thousand eight hundred dollars.

We need to pay twenty thousand eight hundred at sixteen point six percent

interest rate, which I thought of getting away with my money from savings.

I clearly told them I don't like their maintenance cost, which

is a hundred and eight dollars

per month, as

this is something I need to pay no matter if I vacation or not.

They were like, "Look at Emerald Grand, Dustin. renting for five hundred to

six hundred per night." And they gave a false promise about how I can easily

make two K to two point five K by renting out five nights worth of points.

I was promised that the two to two point five K is the lowest

and the worst case scenario.

Another false promise from them about maintenance fees staying

consistent for ten years with little changes probably in the last ten

years, which was like ninety-five dollars to a hundred and eight now.

We were also lured by another offer of free one hundred and seventy-five K

points, which was worth seventeen nights, and they won't expire for two years.

I was like, even if I rent out ten to twelve nights worth of points from

that, I could easily make a minimum of five K within the first year.

It looked like a good cash flow investment with a free vacation for me.

We were also told how this will go to our future generations and the value of points

will increase with inflation and whatnot.

They will brainwash you that you should take the deal there that time and as

the deal will expire, and you will lose some benefits if you come the next day.

the 40K worth package is sold to you at 20K or whatnot.

My instinct was saying something that is not right about the contract

or deal but though I was always trying to see the brighter side.

That's when my wife started doing some research and we found Reddit

posts about how difficult it is to rent and nearly impossible to

use points in the ways they say.

Florida allowed a 10 calendar day after the date of signing contract or

receiving printed docs grace period to exit the contract without any penalty.

We got the hell out of this BS finally.

Emily Rask: Good for them.

Do you know what kind of vacation I could have for $20,000?

It would, it would be way longer than 12 days, I'll tell you that much.

I can make my money go.

I would go to Thailand again.

I could stay there for three months and live in like… I would go back

to Koh Phi Phi Don and go to the private resort that I was at, like,

and it didn't hardly cost anything.

Um, it's another one of preying on the vulnerable, preying on people that don't

understand, like when they're going into it 'cause they're promising them luxury.

They're promising them like, like you can have the best vacations,

and especially now with social media and everybody's only posting the

happy parts of their lives Great,

where, you know, it's like well then we can be a part of that too because

look, we have a rental or we have, you know, you can just add, like you're

adding to your portfolio that's gonna be passed down to future generations.

Again, they're preying on the like you can take care of your family if

you purchase this, and then they've got the FOMO in there, right?

If you don't do this, you're gonna miss out and somebody else is gonna take

this, and it's like last minute deal.

You gotta do it.

It's like the whole car salesman thing like, "I don't know if this

car is gonna be here tomorrow." Yep.

Yeah.

urgency yeah.

And I know that there's a lot of people that will go to Vegas, and they'll

sit in those because they'll be like, "We'll give you three free nights,"

and then you can do this, and they go, and they're like, "Eh, we're good."

But they're like it's like eight hours of, of just like horrible that you have

to sit through or however long it is.

But

to redeem, like, the free cruise they'll give you and then, yeah.

And it's like, oh, but you can only take it this one date in, in a year

Yeah, and

like

17% interest?

Like we put a cap on interest rates?

Can we do that yet?

Because 17% interest on people… And I would love to see the median

in- it household income of people that purchase these because I'm

pretty sure that it's people that can't necessarily afford them, right?

Because they're looking at it as an investment.

Like it's, it's only $20,000 instead of buying a house.

It's only $20,000 instead of buying a hundred thousand dollar home.

And this is an investment for our future, for our kids, for

our grandkids, for whatever.

like

this is more attainable than this is.

So I, I would love to see the median household income.

Anne Genduso: And you know, it's interesting to me that they're doing

this through hotels now with vacation clubs and this sort of thing because

like, I mean, we- we've heard of the timeshares where you actually,

you know, like have the condo or whatever, but to have the same kind

of concept through an existing hotel was really interesting.

it might have been around forever and I just didn't know about it, but I

Emily Rask: Yeah, me neither.

Anne Genduso: okay."

Emily Rask: Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm… I would, I would annoy them.

Like, that's why I could never get kidnapped, because I would annoy

them too much with all my questions.

They'd be like, "All right, you can leave now."

Anne Genduso: Yeah, time that is funny.

You know, I think the thing that also goes back to is because,

I mean, this is Wyndham.

This is not like a tiny little brand

Emily Rask: Yeah

Anne Genduso: an Amway or some like thing that like has been associated

with maybe predatory behavior before.

So I think that is fascinating because they're leveraging-- I, I mean, they're

obviously offering a new offering, but it's the, the incredible branding that

they're borrowing from to create this new offering which I believe is predatory.

I mean first of all 16.6%, ridiculous.

Um, obviously if they're like literally lying about the amount of, maintenance

costs… I mean I've, I've seen a lot of people go back and they'll be like, "Oh my

gosh, no, it was actually, it raised this

much,.

Emily Rask: It's the fine print, it's the fine print.

They're not gonna tell you about Yeah, uh, it is borrowed credibility.

It's like Maxwell House I was talking about good to the last drop.

Maxwell House, um, is- is… Was a hotel in Nashville and

it was like the premium hotel.

And so he walked his blend in there and was like, "You guys

should start selling this."

And they put it in the lobby and then everybody liked it.

And then he borrowed prestige from them because he used their name because

everybody knew who Maxwell House was.

So then it was like, "Oh, this is the coffee of the really

expensive hotel." Right.

that's like Wyndham.

They're like, "Oh," never do that.

They would never do that.

They're a very successful hotel Right.

Um, don't get a timeshare.

Save your money.

S-

Don't go into debt.

Do not go into debt for something that… I think that's the biggest thing.

Financial literacy in the United States is nothing.

Like, I didn't know anything about financial literacies.

I'm in my 40s now and I finally like have a grip on it, um, 'cause

I worked in finance and I was like, "Oh so this is the difference

between this and this and this."

Um but nobody-- What?

We learned how to write a check in high school.

That was it; in home ec.

Nobody, nobody talks to you about 401s or IRAs or interest rates or any of it,

Yeah yeah.

Like don't buy a car with 20% interest rate.

You're gonna be paying like $700 a month for a car that's crappy

because your credit's not great.

Like get your credit up a little bit first and don't g-…

Like they just - They get taken advantage of.

Everybody gets taken advantage of if th- because of it.

Makes me very upset.

Anne Genduso: You know, the other part that I just, I, I remember now that was

killing me about this one and that they were telling people, you know, "Oh,

this is an investment for your future."

Emily Rask: Yeah

Anne Genduso: for future generations… So never-- In my

family, we never had any timeshares.

And I just had no idea until John Oliver did a whole episode on timeshares.

know if you

Emily Rask: Oh, no.

I'm gonna watch that though, 'cause I do have timeshares on my list.

Anne Genduso: Yeah, he did a whole episode on it within like the last year or two.

And um, it, it was shocking.

It is shockingly difficult.

So when if, if there is a timeshare that is still under contract, it is

shockingly difficult for people who, when their parents who owned it pass away

Emily Rask: Yeah

Anne Genduso: the children not only inherit the actual timeshare

itself, but they can't sell it, and it's extremely hard and they can't.

And so they inherit the maintenance dues.

They admit-inherit all of the negative things that come with it.

Um, and then you, they get, you know, kind of double hit.

There's like a double whammy from, um, these kinda scammers who say that they

are, um, I can't remember exactly what they're called, but basically that they

will help you get out of a timeshare.

And

Emily Rask: gosh

Anne Genduso: money to those people, and they lose all their money that way.

So it's, it's shocking to me.

So the fact that they were actually using that as a selling point, a positive

point, saying that it's an investment for future generations on what wasn't

even, like I said, a typical timeshare, this is like a vacation club type of

Emily Rask: Ja

Anne Genduso: fascinating.

Emily Rask: I almost wonder if the company that's helping you get out

of it is associated with the company.

Because, surprised at

because y- like you have to think about pharmaceutical companies,

like they own clinics, they own, uh, like the actual, um, pharmacies.

They own… Like it's, it's a whole ring.

So like I'm

I- it makes me wonder if … It's, it's the same as, um, I did an episode on

PFAS, per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances.

It's like the forever chemicals.

And like th- like once they're in, they're in, and so then they

created companies that cleaned it up.

So they're getting double paid 'cause you can get like grants for

like cleanups and stuff like that.

So they're getting double paid.

They're putting it in your clothing, and they're putting it in your pans,

and they're putting it in whatever.

And then, uh, they're like, "Oh, we'll clean it up. Don't

worry." So it's the same thing.

If …I feel like it's the same thing, and I'll bet you that those companies are

tied to the original timeshare or hotel

Anne Genduso: I would not be surprised at all.

You're right.

You're right.

Emily Rask: Ja

Anne Genduso: I should look that up.

I'm like, oh, well, it's the same thing you said earlier about like going into

the pasta aisle when the company's not caring if you choose Rao's or Prego or

Emily Rask: Yeah

Anne Genduso: they're all owned by the same company.

So

Emily Rask: Yeah.

We don't care is… It, it's like, uh, what was it?

The Model T Ford, he- when it first came out, he's like, "You can get it in

any color as long as it's black." Like,

"You can buy any of these 'cause they're all ours."

Anne Genduso: Right.

Yeah.

Oh.

Well, thank you so much for coming on.

I am so excited that you were able to come here and share all your stories.

You have tons of stories, and anyone listening, please go visit

Lies We Bought with Emily Rask.

You will not be disappointed.

It's awesome.

I've already watched several myself, and I can't keep up with them fast

enough because they're so good.

Emily Rask: I know, I'm like, "Oh man, they're weekly." I kinda

shot myself in the foot for that one, but I, I enjoy it very much.

It it's been so much fun on here, and I loved that finally I was able to

check off the little Reddit thing now.

So I'm glad that you were able to help me do that.

Anne Genduso: All right, side-eyers.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode and if you did make sure to like and

subscribe or if you're listening on a podcast app please leave a rating

review because that way you'll never miss a thing and you'll help more people

discover the show so they can spot signs of deception before it's too late.

Let's leave you with this week's Side -Eye Question.

Thinking about these stories which stuck with you?

Have you ever encountered any of these offerings or maybe someone you know got

duped by them Drop your answer in the comments and let's discuss if you have

your own story of deception, scams, or manipulation, we wanna hear them.

Email us at stories@nothingfeltwrong.com.

We may feature your story in a future episode, and we'll keep everything

anonymous for legal protection Because the more stories we share, the more we'll

know what to look out for to stay safe.

I'll see you next time, and until then, keep your side eye sharp Because

nothing felt wrong until it did