Final_Version_Better Places_Nabeel Khan on the OSDC, planning and the future of Oxford Street
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Yiannis: [00:00:00] Welcome to Kanda's Better Places Podcast. I am Yannis Sophocleous, and in this episode, I'm joined by Nabeel Khan, Chief Executive of the Oxford Street Development Corporation, to discuss the future of Oxford Street and what comes next for the OSDC.

Yiannis: many thank you for joining us today

Nabeel Khan: Thank you. Much appreciated. A regular listener. I'm delighted to be here

Yiannis: Perfect. Perhaps we can start with some early reflections of your first few months. You have now had several months in the role. How do you think the OSDC's first months have gone, and what would you identify as the most important achievement so far?

Nabeel Khan: Yeah. Thanks, Yannis. I think the, um, the first few months have been about building the foundations for delivery, uh, in essence. As you know, we're a, we're a new, uh, mayoral development corporation. We're one of three now in London. We're the young upstarts. We've got our older sibling in LLDC. We've got what we call the middle child in OPDC, and then, uh, we're the, we're the sort of new MDC in town and, um, we are the first that's at the heart of a global [00:01:00] city.

Nabeel Khan: So that, by its very nature, has meant doing things differently and, uh, and, uh, innovating as we've gone along. Uh, so I think the first few months have really been about setting up the foundations. There's, there's a few things that we had to do from the off. Building up a startup in the public sector from scratch, should not be underestimated.

Nabeel Khan: It's, it's quite a, it's quite a... You know, bringing together the right people, the right capabilities, the governance, all the ways of working. That in itself was a full-time job. Still is a full-time job. Um, the second is about the, the, the obvious-- the obviously the very major public, uh, realm transformation program, the pedestrianization of Oxford Street, and just ensuring that we have the consultation in place and all the mechanisms that go behind that, uh, set up well.

Nabeel Khan: And of course, the third one has been setting up the local planning authority. So, uh, that in itself, you know, setting up a local planning authority in six months, by the way, is, um... was no fe- n-no mean feat. And actually, it's taken other parts, uh, of the country [00:02:00] who are setting up planning authorities between two and three years to, to do so.

Nabeel Khan: So us doing it at, at record speed, I suppose, just goes to show two things. One, just, how much we're working at pace with purpose, but two, how important it was for us to be able to lean into the wider shared services as part of the wider mayoral family. And a- and us being able to use them actually as leverage to set up this new organization.

Nabeel Khan: So those three things in itself, you know, the startup, the LPA set up, and the actual public realm, transformation, has been probably, I'd say, the, the meaty things over the last, seven months.

Yiannis: No, definitely. I think the six months must be a world record probably. So really well done at being able to deliver and showing this commitment to deliver at pace.

Yiannis: Has anything really surprised you since taking on the role, either about the scale of this opportunity or the complexity of setting up a, a local planning authority, as you say, in, in just a few months? Especially on what is actually a development corporation and why is it de- necessary to deliver, this [00:03:00] ambition for Oxford Street?

Nabeel Khan: I think the... It's a very good question, actually. It's one I've been reflecting. I've just had my six-month probation review, so I've been reflecting on this, uh, quite, quite hard. I think the thing that's probably surprised me the most has been- The setting up of a, essentially a startup within a public sector, and that essentially requires you to operate at two speeds.

Nabeel Khan: On the one hand, you want to move very, very fast and you wanna do things differently, and the entire purpose of us being set up is to do things differently, to innovate. but on the o-other hand, you are part of a much wider governance machine, and you need to ensure that whatever you do, um, when you, when you move at pace, that you don't do or take decisions that you will ultimately come to regret.

Nabeel Khan: So finding that balance has been, has been, um, has been a challenge, but actually I think we've done remarkably well in getting that balance right. moving with pace, demonstrating our confidence to the market, but also ensuring that we've got all the governance in place, so that we have got a very effective framework around, around us to make a decision.

Nabeel Khan: So that's [00:04:00] probably the thing that I think is, setting up a, a business essentially from scratch and just how much emotional effort goes into it. The thing that hasn't been a surprise but has been of great interest to me is since I've taken on this role, I'm not exaggerating for effect, but pretty much every single person I've spoken to has had either a story about Oxford Street- Yeah

Nabeel Khan: a memory of Oxford Street, or at the ve-very least, an opinion on what we're doing on Oxford Street. And that, that really has been, uh, that's been wonderful actually because in previous roles gone by, you know, that wasn't always the case. But in this role, everyone that I speak to has, has something to say about Oxford Street, and that's an incredible place to start with 'cause it, it means that you've got such a rich pool of experience, memories, opinions to draw upon to help guide the future of what we're trying to do.

Yiannis: It really is. I mean, I remember from a personal experience as well before I moved here, what, thirteen years ago, Oxford Street was a place you actually knew. Like for anyone back in Cyprus, you refer to [00:05:00] Oxford Street when you think about London. So it really is the place that everyone knows on a global scale, not on a just London scale.

Yiannis: And we have now talked about the foundations that you put in place during this first year. I want to turn a bit on how we move from the establishment into the delivery, and in particular, when our Londoners, the businesses, the residents will begin to experience the change, the difference. What are the OSDC's principal priorities as we move into this, uh, delivery phase over the next twelve, or twenty-four months?

Nabeel Khan: Yeah. Thank you, Nami. Absolutely. So I, I, I didn't mention actually, Beforehand that yes, we put the foundations in place for delivery. Actually, where we're approaching now, the next stage we're approaching, the public will start to s-start to see some of the visible transformation as a result of us putting all the foundations in place.

Nabeel Khan: So by late October, so we're, we're now six weeks away. by the end of October, we will be closing the road for the first phase of, personalization. So this will be roughly speaking from Oxford Circus down to where Selfridges is, for those of your listeners who are familiar with, with Oxford Street.

Nabeel Khan: It's just under, [00:06:00] just under a kilometer that will be, closed to traffic. And then what happens at that point is we s-we enter into what we're calling a transition, phase. Um, and this would be, our opportunity to really test and review how people experience the street and how people use the street.

Nabeel Khan: So you can have all the... I'm a big believer in phasing major regeneration projects. I'm a big believer in where you, where you can, and we, we have got the opportunity to do so in this case, is to trial, to test, to rehearse how the street is actually used. Um, you know, you can have all the models in the world, you can have all the lovely CGIs, you can have all the lovely designs, but how people actually use the street is only something that you can, you can, you can, um, start to monitor once you've actually closed the road traffic.

Nabeel Khan: So we'll probably enter a period of potentially eighteen months, twenty-four months of where we test Interventions. we'll, uh, you know, we'll, we'll tweak some of the sort of seating arrangement, we'll tweak some of the public realm interventions. We'll test, [00:07:00] we'll see how people actually use it.

Nabeel Khan: Those elements that we think, "Okay, yeah, this, this, this works really well and, and it's had a really good response," we sort of, um, uh, make those permanent, and that'll, that'll form part of the permanent scheme. And those elements that we think, "Actually, we, we thought it was gonna go a particular way, we've actually discovered it's gone another way," that allows us to sort of review that, refine it, and then, and then of course learn from it and, and, try something different.

Nabeel Khan: So, so what, what people will start really experiencing now is the street will feel different from the end of October, and that's, that's gonna be hugely important for visitors to Oxford Street just in terms of how they move around and how they experience. It's gonna be really important to the businesses that are based there 'cause obviously there's, there's all the practical matters around logistics and servicing, and, and how that will- Yeah

Nabeel Khan: change. But also it will, you know... the sort of economic theory that we are quite confident will play out is higher footfall results in more dwell time. More dwell time results in more [00:08:00] spend. And so this is gonna be beneficial to all the retailers around there. And then the final thing that we're gonna start to see, is gonna s- start to see more investment coming into Oxford Street.

Nabeel Khan: It's already coming, in fairness, so there are already, there, there've already been some flagship openings. There's, Liverpool FC have just opened their first, retail store. I'm a... I should say I, I'm a, I'm a Chelsea fan by the way. But Liverpool FC first, uh, first, uh, um, retail store outside of Liverpool.

Nabeel Khan: They decided to come on Oxford Street. It's the first Premier League football club we've actually got on the road. Warner Brothers are just about to open up Harry Potter, their flagship Harry Potter- Oh, yeah ... at the end of, uh, Well Street down here, and we're gonna see more and more of that. I've seen some of the pipeline, demand.

Nabeel Khan: Demand is increasing, so that will start to be converted into actual investment on the street. So people will be coming here. They'll be experiencing a much greater street. Businesses will be seeing a significant uplift in football and spend. And Londoners in general, and the Treasury ultimately, and the mayor will, [00:09:00] will be seeing an investment into not only Oxford Street but also the wider West End, which will tell us that, we are on our way to success.

Yiannis: I think this is very exciting, especially it feels like it's a feel-good story in terms of investment in London that we are looking, for as a whole from a government growth perspective, from a London GLA growth perspective and Westminster and Camden growth perspective. So I think this is the kind of story that is needed, for the businesses, the visitors, and the councils.

Yiannis: Often regeneration program, programs can sometimes try to achieve too much at once. What is the hardest trade-off that you think that the OSDC will have to make in delivering this very ambitious, pipeline?

Nabeel Khan: Yes, it is a very good question. I mean, on your, on your first observation, can I just say by the way that it's absolutely spot on.

Nabeel Khan: It does... Oxford Street, uh, it does play an outsized role in the nation's psyche. You know, uh, we often get, we often... Well, I certainly often have conversations with people that are not necessarily only Londoners actually, who've got a global perspective and, and they are drawn to Oxford Street. And we have to [00:10:00] remember that London, London is a world city.

Nabeel Khan: London is a global city. And actually, you know, people are just as interested in Riyadh, in New York, in Madrid as to what is happening in London, as, you know, uh, some of the local stakeholders may be. And I have to, I have to remind myself that, that we have got this global, uh, positioning, so to speak.

Nabeel Khan: I think that in terms of the sort of the most difficult trade-off is, on the one hand, on the one hand it's really important. This is a very, very complex scheme, the pedestrianization proposal, as you can imagine. there's a lot, there's lots to take into account. There's lots to get right. All the modeling stuff, all the...

Nabeel Khan: The moment you start doing some of the subsurface surveys, by the way, you really realize how congested a, a city London is and how organically it's developed over the years. You know, the way fiber optic cables mix with utilities- Mm-hmm ... mixed with Tube infrastructure, all of that. In fact, there's one, there's one, uh, I'm not going to say it for security reasons, but there's one location, uh, along Oxford Street where there's only forty millimeters between your feet and where the Tube infrastructure starts [00:11:00] underneath.

Nabeel Khan: So that's, that's the space that we're playing with in, in certain parts- ... in terms of, you know, putting things in and, and that... Once you realize that and once you've done that, some of the discussions around where should trees go, or where should we have different kind of road surfaces, or where should we have some seating, they really start to make sense.

Nabeel Khan: That there are lots of micro trade-offs to do on a, on a, on almost on an everyday basis. But the macro trade-off for me is how do you work at pace? Because the one thing I've heard more than anything else from investors, from businesses is, "We have been talking about this for sixty years."

Yiannis: Indeed. "

Nabeel Khan: There's been various consultations.

Nabeel Khan: There's been various, master plans. Just do something. Just get something done." So that's on the one hand you hear, uh, "Just move at pace and get something done." And the mayor's been very clear about that, which is why the mayor was very insistent on closing the road by the end of twenty twenty six. But on the other hand, you hear, you know, you-- this is potentially, certainly in my experience, the [00:12:00] most, contested stakeholder scene in anywhere that I've worked.

Nabeel Khan: You know, you've got great estates, you've got two local authorities, you've got a transport authority, you've got four business improvement districts. you've got a lot of people to consult, to align interests with, to bring on a journey with you. So I suppose the macro trade-off is how do you move at pace on the one hand and just get stuff done whilst, whilst at the s-same time ensure that you bring the entire system along with you so that at the end of the day, we all get the outcome that we all want, which is a better West End?

Yiannis: Well, I think that's, that's a very important point because as you say, it's one of the most complex networks of stakeholders. Mm-hmm. So in order to be able to balance out and make sure that Everyone can be involved in making that judgment, and, uh, getting that balance right is really key. And, uh, going to an earlier interview you did a couple of months ago that I listened as I was preparing, you described the, the advantages of, a development corporation as providing a single guiding mind for regeneration.

Yiannis: And at that [00:13:00] point, the OSDC actually was still awaiting, uh, the transfer of planning powers. You now have those powers. What does that single guiding mind mean in practice, and what can you now join up that could not join up before, uh, we had this, uh, cooperation in place? And where should all of our listeners, developers, applicants actually experience, this different and, hopefully more efficient process?

Nabeel Khan: Yeah, totally. I think, um, I mean, there's two things I would say. One, on becoming a local planning authority does give us a really important new lever. So the guiding mind point is, is absolutely spot on. The, the real opportunity isn't that we just simply d- this is a new body that simply determines planning applications.

Nabeel Khan: It's that we can bring planning much more closely together with a wider vision for Oxford Street. so the single guiding mind philosophy, that's where it becomes really helpful in that it does span two boroughs. That's the first thing to say. So that's what was not happening before. Oxford Street goes and, and the Wha-- and our red line [00:14:00] goes beyond just, uh, one local authority.

Nabeel Khan: It also allows us to have certain conversations with Transport for London, being part of the same mayoral family. You know, there's a, there's a certain conversation you can have inside the system, so to speak, that you can have from outside the system. but more important than almost the sort of the guiding mind, uh, point is what I call the sort of focused leadership it allows us to bring to a place.

Nabeel Khan: And it goes hand in hand with the planning function, and it goes hand in hand with the, with the, with the guiding mind. But actually, the example I often give when I speak about this is, in my previous role, I was, responsible for all things growth and environment at our local authority. I oversaw housing delivery, planning, regen, climate, events, parks.

Nabeel Khan: And on a Monday, I'd be talking about a station master plan. On a Tuesday, I'd be talking about rolling out the latest low-traffic neighborhood in the south of the borough. On the Wednesday, there'd be a public safety incident in Brixton that I'd have to get involved in. On the Thursday, I'd be talking about strategic partnerships with the NHS [00:15:00] and so on and so forth.

Nabeel Khan: Here, I would go to sleep thinking about Oxford Street. I wake up thinking about Oxford Street. I may even end up getting a divorce because of Oxford Street. No, I'm joking. It's a very interesting- But the point, the point being, the point being that there's a s-- there's a focused leadership that we bring as an MDC to our entire purpose, our vision, that is just-- that wouldn't have been possible, that would not have been possible with the best will in the world and all the resources As it existed before.

Nabeel Khan: And I think that's, that's where the MDC comes into its own. Not only the sort of single guiding mind, but also the focused leadership it brings to the table.

Yiannis: And how would you describe these, respective roles between the OSDC, you mentioned the TfL, uh, Westminster, Camden? How do you make the institutional landscape more straightforward for businesses, the residents, and investors?

Nabeel Khan: Yeah. I think the, the, the thing that... When I, when I speak to investors, landowners, developers, applicants about this, where I start off is, you've got to understand our [00:16:00] entire constitution as a development corporation, and our board is very clear on this. If you, if you look at the composition of our board, if you look at the composition of, our, independent planning committee, is, um, we are, we are very different to a local authority.

Nabeel Khan: We are, we are... You know, our constitution is all about unlocking investment, facilitating growth, and bringing forward development and the regeneration of Oxford Street and the wider environment. So that, that just changes the approach from the off in terms of that's our mission, that's our-- that's what, that's what it says in our constitution, i.e. Our functions order. That's what our board have been appointed based upon. That's what I was appointed based upon. And so that really follows through in the conversations we have. And, and so what does that mean in practice? In practice that means, yes, we're a planning authority, but the expectation I've certainly set our planning authority, and we've got a superb chief planner, by the way, who you should hear more, more from, is that we want to, we want to be the best planning authority in the country.

Nabeel Khan: We want to be a platinum, planning authority. So that means- First, I would say [00:17:00] to applicants, speak to us early. We, we are ambitious. We do see... We do, we do want to see what value they would add to the West End, but we will, we will absolutely always be open to having a discussion. We'll be accessible. I think in my experience in the past, that's one thing you can really offer because, because ul-ultimately investors want certainty and clarity, and that comes from being accessible firstly and being willing to listen and truly understanding the commerciality of, just how challenging the, the market is at the moment and, you know, not, not to use the planning system, which, you know, in my experience has become over the years to, to be a, um, a, a sort of, um, a catchall for everything that you want from society and you keep adding on more and more and more and more.

Nabeel Khan: So just be very clear about these are our expectations within, within, from what we want and give that sort of early advice, be available, give that clarity. Make sure that we can, we can determine [00:18:00] applications, you know, well within the timescales. There is no excuse for us to, to ta-to take longer than what the statutory timescales are.

Nabeel Khan: And in fact, the challenge I've set the team is go faster, and, and that... I think that's setting those conditions up for good growth. Being very clear about what we're seeking in return and then ultimately moving out of the way is, is a really important principle for us to, for us to set out from the off.

Yiannis: Yeah. That, that's a fair point and being a local planning authority that at the moment you don't have your own, OSDC local plan. Do you see this, clarity in feedback and clarity in engagement the way to avoid a period of uncertainty while, you are preparing, your local plan?

Nabeel Khan: Yeah, absolutely. So the early engagement absolutely does that.

Nabeel Khan: It negates, it negates any potential uncertainty. What I would say is that not having a local plan will not stop us from achieving the ambition that we want. we think the existing local plan policies from both, London Borough of Camden and Westminster City Council Th-there's enough in there to [00:19:00] allow us to work with it.

Nabeel Khan: But also, the other thing that's obviously come out in the last, few weeks is the draft London Plan, and that's got some very interesting proposals, that are currently out for consultation on the West End, and particularly around the importance of the West End as a commercial center, which is completely aligned with the vision that we have set out.

Nabeel Khan: The vision actually is will be going to our September board for, for approval. And so I don't see any, any issues at the moment not having a local-- our own local plan in terms of limiting our ability to achieve our vision. In the fullness of time, of course, that, that local plan will be developed, and, there, you know, we may want to go into more granularity on certain aspects.

Nabeel Khan: But as the current policy framework stands, there's, there's enough in there for us to, for us to, um, achieve our vision.

Yiannis: No, I think that's a key point, and I think the reference to the London Plan, I think the concept of an international center of, culture and commerce and the experience economy as a whole for the West End is really what defines this growth, potential.

Yiannis: I mean, [00:20:00] pedestrianization understandably, has attracted the most of the headlines, but as you explained, the ambition is not simply Oxford Street without traffic What do you see, see the pedestrianisation actually unlocking that you could not have achieved otherwise?

Nabeel Khan: Yeah, the pedestrianisation is fundamental, of course.

Nabeel Khan: 'Cause what that does is it changes the, the experience of the street, and then that allows us... So the long term, the long term plan is, of course, the transformation of Ox- the economic transformation of Oxford Street and the wider,West End. But the pedestrianisation, it starts that. It's the, it's the starting point.

Nabeel Khan: It, it unlocks a, a new experience. It allows us to, trial. It allows us to innovate. It allows us to test new concepts. It also, it also, you know, working with businesses and landowners, it gives us a real chance to show what the art of the possible is. And that's where actually, you know, when it comes to design quality, for instance, or when it comes to, when it comes to, you know, architecture of the public, of, of the buildings or the built form, but also, some of the sort of [00:21:00] landscaping of the public realm, we do want developers and applicants to be bold.

Nabeel Khan: We do. We encourage that, and the planning team will be in due course once it's been to our board coming out with a bit of an approach of what we think we want from applications. And it very much is gonna be leaning into boldness, it's gonna be leaning into this is the s- this is the heart of a global city, so it needs to reflect that.

Nabeel Khan: So the pedestrianisation is, is I suppose the start of that journey, and it helps us unlock the other opportunities and, and that will ultimately help us achieve our vision, which by the way, I should have said at the start, is, is moving away from being a primarily retail district at the moment to being a much more mixed-use experiential destination.

Nabeel Khan: And the best places in the world do that. They create time for you to dwell, want to spend time in and keep revisiting, and that's ultimately what we want with Oxford Street.

Yiannis: So what do you see Oxford Street competing with now? Is it the- Is it New York? Is it, uh, Tokyo? Is it Paris? How do you see, Oxford Street competing on the [00:22:00] international stage?

Nabeel Khan: Yeah, it's a really interesting question because, as you can imagine, the first seven months here, there's been-- I've spent, I've spent a fair bit of time thinking about inter-international comparisons, and actually, we've done a lot of work with the, with our New York colleagues on Times Square in particular, and how, Times Square went through a populationalization process and what that led to, and how the, how the square is experienced now and what that's unlocked in terms of, you know, partnerships and events and activation.

Nabeel Khan: Um, I'm a big fan of Japan personally.I, um, spent a lot of time, in Japan and Tokyo in particular, which I think is one of the, is one of the best, mega cities in the world, and actually how they go about, s- managing their public space and, and particularly their destinations. But, but there isn't...

Nabeel Khan: The thing about Oxford Street is there isn't, there isn't really a direct comparison you can make with any other- Okay ... any other sort of, streets in the world. It's got elements that you can learn from, absolutely. So you can learn from how Times Square has activated its space and how it uses, its, its sort of, format to really create moments for New Yorkers.[00:23:00]

Nabeel Khan: You can learn from the, the public space management aspect of Ginza, for instance, in, in Tokyo, and how actually in terms of cleanliness and street cleansing and waste collection, how they do, how they do that. You can learn actually just as much from some of the smaller European cities, in my experience.

Nabeel Khan: So places like Lille, places like Bordeaux, actually, if you go, if you go there, you'll see their public realm is, it's very simple. The material palette is very simple, but it's very high quality, and actually, that allows you to use that as a canvas. you can learn from, you know, places like La Ro- La- La Rambla, which we are actually actively at the moment.

Nabeel Khan: But there isn't one place I would say to you right now, Ioannis, "Yeah, that's the sort of template." The irony is, to go further, the irony is that there are people that are getting in touch with us from across the world who think we're much further along in the journey- Yeah ... and they want to learn from us.

Nabeel Khan: They're saying- "Oh, you've done this. Now can you pass on your..." And I have to go back to them and say, "Just, just, just come back, come back in a year, come back in two years." So, so it's a, it's a good challenge, but there isn't a, there isn't a cookie-cutter approach that we can take from, Other parts of the world.

Nabeel Khan: You take, you take the best of others, but you [00:24:00] m- you keep it uniquely London, and that's the beautiful thing about Oxford Street. It's gonna be a place for Londoners, for visitors alike.

Yiannis: No, again, I think, the idea is that there is not a perfect place, so it's making sure that you take the best bits out of everything to create something really, special.

Yiannis: And I, I know you mentioned that Oxford Street is not really about predominantly only retail now. We're talking more about an experience-led-

Nabeel Khan: Mm. -

Yiannis: uh, destination. Do you think there are users that are currently underrepresented in Oxford Street and would add most to the street's future identity in this ambition?

Nabeel Khan: Oh, for sure. For sure. So I think in terms of, from my perspective, I mean, we've done some mapping at the moment and, for instance, there isn't, there, there aren't as many food and beverage, units as you, as you well know, along Oxford Street. And that's for, you know, that's for policy reasons, and that's understandable.

Nabeel Khan: but there isn't at the moment. So the f- the famous stat that we've come out with is there's literally only one pub on Oxford Street at the moment. so you know, there are definitely uses. There are culture uses that I think are currently underrepresented. A lot of it's gonna be led by the market [00:25:00] as well, in fairness.

Nabeel Khan: So we're seeing, we're seeing some of that demand. We're seeing some of the, some of those early conversations from the pre-apps, sorry, pre-application discussions that are taking place. but yes, for sure there is, there is definitely gonna be a space here as the street evolves, as the opportunities present themselves, as, as, more investment flows, I'm sure we're gonna see, different uses or certainly a demand for different uses.

Nabeel Khan: The other thing I would say is retail itself, I should say, is, is changing and, you know, when you speak to the retailers, you get a very different sense of where, the retail business used to be ten years ago, even five years ago, frankly, to, to where it's going in the next five, 10 years.

Nabeel Khan: So I think even the re- even the retail units are going to look very different in, in time to come. And you're already seeing that with a couple of them at the moment, where they're much less focused on transaction, much more focused on experience, and they almost don't, you know... I'm framing this the wrong way, but they almost are less worried about where people actually spend or where they purchase their product.

Nabeel Khan: They, they're much more interested in brand identity. Yeah. They're much more interested [00:26:00] in, in getting your buy-in as a consumer. So even, even amongst retail, the, the trends are fascinating at the moment. And

Yiannis: I think, for retail as well, it's very often in the headlines the idea that, there is crime rising in the West End, in London as a whole.

Yiannis: How are you approaching this, especially from a public perception, approach when it comes to crime perceptions for London and the West End?

Nabeel Khan: Yeah. it's a really important point and, and one that I've heard firsthand from investors, actually. so we can't... We, you know, we have to take it seriously.

Nabeel Khan: Yeah. We can't be complacent. We have to take it seriously. Funny enough, I was in New York a few months ago, and I was surprised by- How often this came up, you know, amongst very educated, very well-informed folk who, who are sort of, you know, who travel between London and New York. But it was coming up as a, the perception of crime, I would say.

Nabeel Khan: Yes. And I think there's a, there's a lot of work that City Hall have done and, and, they should be commended for this actually, because what they have found is there's a real sort of- Online disinformation, [00:27:00] misinformation, and frankly, some outright lies being told about London, and they are, they are being perpetuated by the algorithms.

Nabeel Khan: And it's fascinating who they're being funded by behind the scenes, actually, and I think the LSE did, um, did a really good study on this recently, which is well worth... So I think-- So the mayor's been very clear about this. the Met Police actually have increased investment in the West End, partly as a, you know, as a way of responding to some of this, some of this sort of misinformation, but mainly because actually, if that is the real lived experience of retailers, of consumers, in the West End, then, then, you know, you need to make that happen.

Nabeel Khan: What I would say is, what was, what was interesting in those conversations in New York was quite often when I would start s-telling people the actual facts, you know, the actual facts of just how safe a city, how, you know, a big city like London is, especially in comparison to, to other cities around, around the world, it was quite shocking to them that the facts were so out of kilter with the online misinformation.

Nabeel Khan: So, so that doesn't mean, by the way, that we can't take [00:28:00] what's happening, the lived experience, seriously, and we are, we are working very closely with the Met Police. We're working very closely with the new West End company, very closely with Westminster City Council and Camden at the moment to ensure that we as a system are all joined up, and we're putting our collective resources into this.

Nabeel Khan: we have seen a reduction in certain crime over the last year. Dramatic reductions, actually. So things like phone theft have really gone down because of the West-- because of the Met Police's targeted focus on the West End. And now I think the next, the next task for us is, as a, as a London community, is take that message to our international audiences and say, "Yeah, that, that, that online algorithm that's serving you this- Yeah.

Nabeel Khan: -is a, it's, um, you know, it is misinformation. Actually, the reality on the ground does not match what you're seeing on your social media channels.

Yiannis: No, I think that's a fair point, and I think, this idea about perception of crime and actual crime, it's a, it's an important distinction, especially when we're talking about a global destination that everyone will take an interest in.

Yiannis: Moving back into the-- away from intel and to the [00:29:00] mix of uses. Some of those uses, hospitality ex-experience levels are not really defined by planning framework alone. How does the OSDC see the relationship between your planning vision and the licensing regimes, in Westminster and Camden?

Nabeel Khan: Yeah. We need to, we need to work really closely and collaboratively with them.

Nabeel Khan: And of course, both Camden and Westminster ha-- they've got a representation on our board, so the leaders of both, boroughs sit on our board. The deputy leader of Westminster, who also happens to be the lead cabinet member, for, planning growth, which includes, I think, licensing as well, also sits on our board.

Nabeel Khan: So there is, there is that sort of join up there, and we need to work really closely and collaboratively with them. The thing with licensing is licensing is an interesting one. I used to run the licensing authority function in my previous role. And licensing, there's elements that sit within the Licensing Act, and there's elements of licensing that sit within the Highways Act.

Nabeel Khan: And so actually some of, what we want to do is, is well within the highway authority's

Yiannis: Pavement licenses ...

Nabeel Khan: [00:30:00] exactly. it's well within the highway authority's, wherewithal, and then some of it is within the local authorities, and we'll have to work closely with them.

Nabeel Khan: And the added thing in all of this at the moment is the mayor will be getting strategic licensing powers, very soon. So that, that's currently going through the process. He's obviously consulted on that. And moving forward, he'll have the ability to call in applications where he thinks, you know, for, for... similar to the way planning works at the moment. Yeah. and I think that's gonna be a really interesting development, for London. I think particularly in those areas where we want to encourage more of an evening economy, more of a nighttime economy. And of course, you know, Soho gets all the headlines, but it is the number one, you know- Mm-hmm evening and nighttime economy in, in London. And we have to find a really helpful balance between protecting residents but also facilitating and encouraging growth. And I think that is possible. I absolutely think, having run a licensing, licensing authority, there are ways you can do that. At the moment, the way it works, I think we've got more to do on the unlocking investment, facilitating growth front.

Nabeel Khan: I think it does a very good job [00:31:00] protecting resident groups, but I think could do more on unlocking growth.

Yiannis: Definitely. And I think moving away from the planning and licensing policy, there is also all sorts of, policy debates going around that are involving, the West End, are key to the future ambition for Oxford Street.

Yiannis: There's obviously the overnight visitor levy that has been introduced, now that gives the ability for mayors to introduce the so-called tourist tax. Mm-hmm. There's also lots of debate about the potential introduction of VAT-free shopping in the West End. Is there any policy position that you would like to see, more development in terms of supporting this ambition for, Oxford Street?

Nabeel Khan: Yeah. Well, firstly, we're supportive of both, for obvious reasons. I think the overnight visitor levy... It's funny, I was at, I was at a, where was I? I was at an event last week where some of the museums and the cultural institutions were represented, and they made a fascinating point, which was actually our museums are, are free and our, and our galleries are free in London.

Nabeel Khan: That's a big part of the draw. And actually, if you compare that, the cost that that adds on to any visitors, if, if [00:32:00] you were to charge for it, you know, it sort of offsets any one percent, two percent or whatever the proposals are. I know the mayor's office are going to be consulting on how he, uh, the overnight visitor levy actually works in practice.

Nabeel Khan: I know Lo- London councils have got a very strong view on that as well. I think from my perspective, anything, any additional fiscal devolution that we can get for London, and particularly the West End, so that we can reinvest in our services and our offering and continue to make us the, the global, uh, city that we, you know, we, we think we are, that can only be a good thing.

Nabeel Khan: So this is, this is all encouraging developments and more of it quicker, I would say.

Yiannis: Oh, and, let's now jump forward five years. You and I and everyone listening are now standing on Oxford Street. What can I see and experience around me that tells me that the OSDC ambition has succeeded?

Nabeel Khan: That's a very good question, Yannis.

Nabeel Khan: Okay. So you and I are gonna walk out of Oxford Circus Tube Station in five years. You're going to s- firstly, you're going to see lots more space around you. You're going to see, you're going to see [00:33:00] some lovely landmark trees around you. You're going to see more seating. You're going to see people dwelling there, having their coffee, having their food perhaps.

Nabeel Khan: You're gonna see children running through, playing freely in a way they don't do at the moment. you're going to look up, and you're actually going to be able to admire the architecture because you're not constantly wondering whether you're going to be run over, and you're actually gonna be able to dwell.

Nabeel Khan: and then you may go in, you may, uh, visit one of the sort of flagship stores and pick up a product that you can only pick up in that particular store, that's been exclusive, to that.you're gonna walk away, and then after that you're gonna, you're gonna walk away and you might go and have some food, in St. Christopher's Place. You might think, "Let's, let's go and, let's, let's go for a drink in Soho. Let's grab a show in the West End." Point being, you're going to be able to experience a much better West End than what you're currently experiencing, and it's not just going to be about Oxford Street, it's going to unlock and tap into all the surrounding neighborhoods we've got.

Nabeel Khan: And you're going to go home that day and say, "Right, I need to go back, and that's [00:34:00] the place I want to be."

Yiannis: Well, that's very exciting. And I think in our podcast we have many people from the property planning and development sectors that are listening. If there were one thing that you would like developers, investors, and landowners considering opportunities in the OSD area but also in the wider West End and to take away from this conversation, what would that be?

Nabeel Khan: So I would say firstly the ambition. Ambition, we want ambition. We want ambitious folk within the West End. Come and speak to us early. Bring your ambition. We will be very clear about our expectations, and we'll be very clear about how we can work with you. And my, my offer to any potential developers or investors isyou will experience a very different authority to work with, and you will find us to be very commercial in our approach, and we are here thinking about the sort of long-term, stewardship of the place.

Nabeel Khan: So that's the angle that we'll come at it. But we know that we can't achieve this without the private sector, and it's fundamental to us to [00:35:00] ensure that we create the right conditions for growth, that we set out our expectations very clearly, but then we allow you to do what you do best, and we do-- we carry on doing what we do best.

Yiannis: No, and I think that's a message that is loud and clear, and I think there is this momentum, uh, that, the investment industry really needs to see in terms of bringing forward the ambitious, as you describe them, projects. And, when should we expect you back in our podcast to see the progress on delivery?

Nabeel Khan: Well, we're, we're very close to closing the road. So, anytime you want after today is.

Yiannis: That's perfect. Only feel-good stories for us. So yeah. Nabeel, really thank you very much for joining us and setting out not only the scale of the ambition but also what the new arrangement will mean in practice for the people and the organizations that will help to, shape its future.

Nabeel Khan: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.