c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/5-0
00:00:03.643 --> 00:00:07.887
We are here today with Scott Becker of
Becker's Healthcare and McGuire Woods.

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Scott,
thank you so much for joining us today.

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00:00:10.923 --> 00:00:14.493
Jordan, a pleasure to be with you.
Thank you so much for having me. You know,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/7-1
00:00:14.493 --> 00:00:16.598
I wish I can compete at your level in
tennis,

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00:00:16.598 --> 00:00:20.397
but I'm doing the best I can here on the
podcast. Thank you so much for having me.

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00:00:17.643 --> 00:00:18.043
Okay.

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It's fantastic.

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So as context for our listeners who don't
know,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/9-1
00:00:23.978 --> 00:00:27.408
Scott Becker is the founder and publisher
of Becker's Healthcare,

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00:00:27.408 --> 00:00:31.099
a leading healthcare media company.
Scott's also a longtime partner at

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00:00:31.099 --> 00:00:33.853
McGuireWoods,
a top am law firm with leading private

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equity and healthcare practices,
where he served for nearly 14 years as a

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00:00:37.699 --> 00:00:41.701
chair of the healthcare department. He is,
like me, a host of some podcasts.

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00:00:41.701 --> 00:00:45.443
He hosts Becker's Healthcare Podcast and
Becker Private Equity Podcast.

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He's the author of several books,
including his most recent book,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/10-1
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Building Great Businesses. So Scott,
that was a mouthful,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/10-2
00:00:52.045 --> 00:00:55.841
but we're off to the races now.
You've hosted hundreds of CIOs and health

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00:00:55.841 --> 00:00:58.919
system leaders on stage at your Becker's
Healthcare events.

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00:00:58.919 --> 00:01:03.177
What's the biggest gap you notice between
what they say publicly and what they say

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00:01:03.177 --> 00:01:04.203
once the mic is off?

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00:01:05.563 --> 00:01:08.170
Yeah, no,
I don't know that there's so much of A

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gap.
I think that so many people are

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struggling to try and figure out how to
make healthcare, you know,

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00:01:13.703 --> 00:01:17.481
how to make it work. You know,
when you look at sort of where we're at

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00:01:17.481 --> 00:01:20.301
in healthcare, you know,
in terms of the triple aim,

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00:01:20.301 --> 00:01:23.546
people talk about the triple aim of cost,
quality of access.

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00:01:23.546 --> 00:01:27.323
We're sort of all moving in the wrong
direction on all three of those.

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I think that health system leadership is
very much trying to make this work.

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You know,
everybody comes at this from their own

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perspective. When a health system,
for example, you know,

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we reported today on another hospital
closing in California,

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moving towards closing.
What health system leaders think is that

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Every answer is about more reimbursement.
And you've got this real challenge of

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everybody comes at every problem,
like the proverbial carpenter or hammer

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with a nail,
instead of looking at it a different way.

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And so you've got these different
challenges.

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And I'm not sure this goes to your
question exactly,

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but we've got this incredible shortage of
physicians.

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And so we always say to physician
societies, physician communities,

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we have to make the path to becoming a
physician shorter. Right now,

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it's four years of college,
four years of medical schools,

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four years of residency, and even more,
12, 14 years,

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00:02:23.373 --> 00:02:27.803
more and more of the best and brightest
go into other fields. They go into

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law, they go into finance,
they go into tech,

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they go into everything.
We need the best and brightest in

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medicine and science too.
But when you talk to physician

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communities and societies, like, oh no,
the holy grail, it's now 12, 14 years,

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even if all of healthcare education was
developed prior to the internet.

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It's just, it's backwards.
And we've got this problem in our system.

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where everybody's looking at it from
their own perspective. And somehow or no,

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we've got to cut through that.
When I talk to health system leaders,

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health system CIOs,
they're very much interested in problem

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solving.
But if I see the gap between what they're

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00:03:03.563 --> 00:03:07.077
saying and thinking,
it's that they're all looking at it from

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their own perspective.

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of how do we solve this.
And I see great leaders, you know,

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you know,
very smart about adopting new technology

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solutions,
new artificial intelligence solutions.

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I see more and more people just trying to
solve problems and great at it.

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The blind spot I see is people looking at
this so parochially and not from a core

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perspective of, you know,
where do we make changes?

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How do we fix this?

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Sounds like you're hearing a lot of
healthcare executives look to invent a

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longer lasting candle instead of
considering a light bulb, for example.

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Well, I think that's exactly right.
And I think what you've got is by

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necessity,
and I'll take aim at the physician

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professional societies,
and I'm a huge fan of our physicians.

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I think we need more of them.
And when you need more highly trained

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specialists.
But what happens is you have physicians

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upset that more and more CRNAs, PAs,
and Ps are taking their jobs,

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taking their positions,

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or filling the gap. And the reality is,
if the physician societies don't make it

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more attractive to produce more doctors,
you have no choice in our system but to

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fill the gaps in other ways.
So when you mentioned the idea of they're

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looking at a candle when we should be
looking at a light bulb,

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Absolutely right on.
I think that's exactly right on.

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I think they're looking at this totally
backwards.

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Rather than suppressing CRNAs and Ps, PAs,
how do we get the best and brightest into

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00:04:33.275 --> 00:04:36.240
medical school?
How do we get them out by 27, 28, 29?

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00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:40.138
It's being done in other countries.
We're the great beneficiary of it.

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Nurse education has accelerated
tremendously this year.

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We're educating twice as many nurses.

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00:04:45.483 --> 00:04:48.796
today than we were 15 years ago,
we're educating 20% more doctors.

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We're just,
we're just backwards in trying to find

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the solutions. And I think your point on,
like Henry Ford used to say famously,

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00:04:55.273 --> 00:04:59.080
if I asked people what they wanted,
they would say a faster horse. You know,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/24-4
00:04:59.080 --> 00:05:01.305
it's the same thing what you just said on
a,

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00:04:59.563 --> 00:04:59.963
Yeah.

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00:05:01.305 --> 00:05:04.123
I think that's a brilliant point is that
they're saying,

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You know,
we need a candle that lasts a little bit

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00:05:06.942 --> 00:05:09.693
longer, a little bit differently,
runs a bit differently,

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00:05:09.693 --> 00:05:13.012
and they need a light bulb,
they need a different way of going at it.

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Everybody's so stuck in their territorial
positions that we're just screwing

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00:05:16.664 --> 00:05:19.699
ourselves and you end up,
you're screwing the doctor community.

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00:05:18.923 --> 00:05:19.403
So.

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So the doctor community becomes by
necessity less needed as we seed

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00:05:23.123 --> 00:05:24.363
capacity to others.

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So Scott,
I love how you're saying you're reframing

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00:05:27.467 --> 00:05:31.441
kind of some of the problems that we're
seeing in the healthcare provider space

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/28-2
00:05:31.441 --> 00:05:33.775
as supply problems more than revenue
problems.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/28-3
00:05:33.775 --> 00:05:36.458
I love that you're bringing that outside
perspective.

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00:05:36.458 --> 00:05:39.935
What I'd like to segue into is when
you're looking at health systems,

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00:05:39.935 --> 00:05:42.369
specifically older, more academic,
consolidated,

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00:05:42.369 --> 00:05:45.946
financially strained health systems and
competitive urban environments,

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00:05:45.946 --> 00:05:47.883
perhaps in Chicago, like where you are,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/29-0
00:05:48.043 --> 00:05:51.843
maybe New York, where I am,
what problems keep surfacing that leaders

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/29-1
00:05:51.843 --> 00:05:55.642
may be reluctant to talk about,
whether it's legacy infrastructure or

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00:05:55.642 --> 00:05:58.953
technical debt, cyber exposure,
cloud migrations that stall,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/29-3
00:05:58.953 --> 00:06:01.559
vendor sprawl,
things that may be embarrassing.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/29-4
00:06:01.559 --> 00:06:05.412
And I don't need you to name names.
In fact, you don't need to at all.

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00:06:05.412 --> 00:06:07.963
But without naming names or necessarily
logos,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/30-0
00:06:08.283 --> 00:06:10.974
I'm sure you've heard some things that
are embarrassing.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/30-1
00:06:10.974 --> 00:06:14.843
They don't want to talk on the stage or
it's broadcast, but what are you hearing?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/31-0
00:06:15.963 --> 00:06:18.213
Right. No,
I think what happens is you've got

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00:06:18.213 --> 00:06:20.561
hospitals and health systems overall,
you know,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/31-2
00:06:20.561 --> 00:06:23.447
they and the physicians in our country do
the Lord's work.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/31-3
00:06:23.447 --> 00:06:25.941
They take care of so many of us. I mean,
you know,

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00:06:25.941 --> 00:06:29.267
without hospitals and health systems,
if COVID proved nothing else,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/31-5
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the hospitals and health systems are the
safety net of our country and we need

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/31-6
00:06:33.132 --> 00:06:34.843
them. Now, what are the challenges?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/32-0
00:06:35.003 --> 00:06:39.169
What you don't talk about is hospitals
right now, we spend 5.

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5 trillion a year on healthcare in our
country.

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Nearly 31% of that is hospital
expenditures, health system expenditures.

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00:06:47.300 --> 00:06:52.676
You can't fix healthcare without at least
slowing the inflation in those costs.

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00:06:52.676 --> 00:06:53.683
You just can't.

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00:06:53.803 --> 00:06:56.451
do it.
And so you've got the situation where

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00:06:56.451 --> 00:07:00.688
health systems are overwhelmed.
They know they're a big part of overall

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00:07:00.688 --> 00:07:04.101
healthcare cost,
but the answer to everything is to raise

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00:07:04.101 --> 00:07:09.044
reimbursement and get more people paying
for healthcare. And what you're seeing is,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/33-4
00:07:09.044 --> 00:07:13.163
what you're seeing is more and more
healthcare go around the systems.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/34-0
00:07:13.403 --> 00:07:17.401
go around the clinicians' offices.
And I think that people talked about it

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/34-1
00:07:17.401 --> 00:07:21.132
years ago in terms of leakage.
We're seeing leakage of cases to other

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/34-2
00:07:21.132 --> 00:07:23.637
places.
And I think that problem is 1 problem.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/34-3
00:07:23.637 --> 00:07:27.847
Another problem we see is, you know,
I was on the phone recently or today with

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/34-4
00:07:27.847 --> 00:07:32.164
someone who's talking about the secret at
their health system is they can't find

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/34-5
00:07:32.164 --> 00:07:33.283
primary care doctors.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/35-0
00:07:33.643 --> 00:07:37.129
They're just not enough.
And that's not a surprise. There's 350,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/35-1
00:07:37.129 --> 00:07:41.259
000 or so primary care physicians in our
country. There's 350 million of us.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/35-2
00:07:41.259 --> 00:07:44.048
Just if primary care physicians just did,
you know,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/35-3
00:07:44.048 --> 00:07:46.944
the amount of physicals we needed by that
population,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/35-4
00:07:46.944 --> 00:07:50.966
they'd be able to do nothing else.
So there's just not enough primary care

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/35-5
00:07:50.966 --> 00:07:52.843
physicians. And what's happening is

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/36-0
00:07:53.403 --> 00:07:56.700
People are not really getting to the root
of the problem.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/36-1
00:07:56.700 --> 00:07:59.827
You've got systems have opened up new
medical schools,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/36-2
00:07:59.827 --> 00:08:03.464
but not new residency spots,
but they've not addressed the real

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/36-3
00:08:03.464 --> 00:08:07.784
problem is how do we make this a more
attractive pathway so we get more and

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/36-4
00:08:07.784 --> 00:08:11.763
more doctors into medical school,
into residencies and now practicing

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/38-0
00:08:11.883 --> 00:08:14.770
in a more attractive way.
But it's just as a, yeah, no,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/38-1
00:08:14.770 --> 00:08:18.430
your health system space, you know,
I've got a great health system CEO

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/38-2
00:08:18.430 --> 00:08:22.194
locally who talks constantly about margin
and mission and he's right on.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/38-3
00:08:22.194 --> 00:08:24.565
They got to have margin,
got to have mission,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/38-4
00:08:24.565 --> 00:08:26.936
trying to take care of their local
community.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/38-5
00:08:26.936 --> 00:08:31.061
And he has to constantly fight the board
on how do I spend enough money to take

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/38-6
00:08:31.061 --> 00:08:33.483
care of the community while delivering
margin.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/39-0
00:08:33.723 --> 00:08:36.843
really in a tough spot. I mean,
it's a really challenging situation.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/37-0
00:08:35.403 --> 00:08:35.803
So...

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/40-0
00:08:37.323 --> 00:08:41.305
I hear you saying that especially
academic health systems are quiet,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/40-1
00:08:41.305 --> 00:08:45.516
are building up their capacity.
They're opening new schools of medicine.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/40-2
00:08:45.516 --> 00:08:48.921
There may be some other challenges with
making the system,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/40-3
00:08:48.921 --> 00:08:51.978
the profession of being a physician more
attractive.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/40-4
00:08:51.978 --> 00:08:56.363
I'm wondering if there are other areas
where health systems are potentially

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/42-0
00:08:56.443 --> 00:08:59.192
quietly spending money or quietly pulling
back.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/42-1
00:08:59.192 --> 00:09:03.488
What are the CFO and CIOs actually
prioritizing now versus what's in press

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/42-2
00:09:03.488 --> 00:09:07.325
releases? If you, you know,
obviously we're seeing a lot of M&

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/41-0
00:09:05.803 --> 00:09:06.283
Yeah.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/42-3
00:09:07.325 --> 00:09:11.963
As and we're seeing big billions spent on
Epic, but what are we not hearing now?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/43-0
00:09:11.403 --> 00:09:14.516
Right.
And you're still seeing billions spent on

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/43-1
00:09:14.516 --> 00:09:17.691
building.
What you're seeing is this great divide

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/43-2
00:09:17.691 --> 00:09:21.629
between health systems,
health systems that are substantially

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/43-3
00:09:21.629 --> 00:09:26.774
investing in artificial intelligence and
technology and new ways of doing things

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/43-4
00:09:26.774 --> 00:09:30.203
that are sort of needed,
and then systems that can't.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/44-0
00:09:30.523 --> 00:09:34.363
And I think the great reality of it is,
like people will ask me.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/45-0
00:09:35.523 --> 00:09:38.612
Where's the next great spot that AI is
going to have a real impact?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/45-1
00:09:38.612 --> 00:09:40.974
And what I would say is that AI is like
the iPhone,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/45-2
00:09:40.974 --> 00:09:43.472
and bear with me as I work through this.
15 years ago,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/45-3
00:09:43.472 --> 00:09:46.197
if you would have told me all the things
I do on my iPhone,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/45-4
00:09:46.197 --> 00:09:49.830
I would have never in a million years
believed it. You know, never believed it,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/45-5
00:09:49.830 --> 00:09:52.419
never understood it.
But I couldn't have predicted those

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/45-6
00:09:52.419 --> 00:09:53.963
things. Most sales system leaders,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/46-0
00:09:54.323 --> 00:09:57.007
that are really intelligent,
in my perspective,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/46-1
00:09:57.007 --> 00:10:01.144
will take a similar perspective.
I don't know exactly where it's going to

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/46-2
00:10:01.144 --> 00:10:03.995
be having the most active and important
use cases.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/46-3
00:10:03.995 --> 00:10:08.244
If you would have told me three to five
years ago that everybody would need

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/46-4
00:10:08.244 --> 00:10:12.214
ambient listening as a need, not a want,
I wouldn't have thought that.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/46-5
00:10:12.214 --> 00:10:13.723
I wouldn't have known that.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/48-0
00:10:13.963 --> 00:10:16.638
But you see it now three to five years
later,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/47-0
00:10:14.563 --> 00:10:14.763
And.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/48-1
00:10:16.638 --> 00:10:21.405
every system is acquiring and using and
getting to ambient listening because it's

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/48-2
00:10:21.405 --> 00:10:26.173
making the job of their clinicians easier,
their physicians or nurses and others.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/48-3
00:10:26.173 --> 00:10:29.836
And I can't tell you the next five to six
cascading use cases,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/48-4
00:10:29.836 --> 00:10:34.603
but I think the really smart systems are
really good at intentionally focusing on

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/50-0
00:10:34.923 --> 00:10:38.086
here's the four or five,
six years we're focusing on right now.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/50-1
00:10:38.086 --> 00:10:41.545
And then here's the next things we're
going to look at at some point.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/50-2
00:10:41.545 --> 00:10:45.448
And they mix intentionality with what
they're going after with opportunism of,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/50-3
00:10:45.448 --> 00:10:48.215
okay, we saw this solution,
somebody's really using it.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/50-4
00:10:48.215 --> 00:10:51.378
And I don't think you have to be the
first mover in everything,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/50-5
00:10:51.378 --> 00:10:53.403
but you got to be in the game. So I think

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/52-0
00:10:52.603 --> 00:10:55.402
Do you have examples of where somebody
either A,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/52-1
00:10:55.402 --> 00:10:58.600
identified what they thought would be the
future trend,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/52-2
00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:01.684
but that didn't pan out and they had to
roll it back?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/52-3
00:11:01.684 --> 00:11:05.740
Or do you have any examples of things
where they have been successful?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/52-4
00:11:05.740 --> 00:11:10.480
I guess you could say other than ambient
listening or where you're thinking may be

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/52-5
00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:14.763
successful next few years, where,
you know, what's the big thing for 2032?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/51-0
00:11:13.563 --> 00:11:14.043
Yeah.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/53-0
00:11:15.403 --> 00:11:17.619
No,
I think the biggest success right now

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/53-1
00:11:17.619 --> 00:11:22.102
would be ambient listening and the places
where revenue cycle is helping and moving.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/53-2
00:11:22.102 --> 00:11:25.162
You know, there's more and more, you know,
revenue cycle,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/53-3
00:11:25.162 --> 00:11:28.643
we're spending a trillion dollars a year
in administrative costs.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/53-4
00:11:28.643 --> 00:11:31.650
We're spending 200,
250 billion a year on revenue cycle.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/53-5
00:11:31.650 --> 00:11:34.603
And it's partly by having a very, very,
you know, multi

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/55-0
00:11:36.043 --> 00:11:38.418
system,
payer system is to how you get paid,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/55-1
00:11:38.418 --> 00:11:42.112
good or bad. But, you know,
I think revenue cycle is one of the areas

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/54-0
00:11:38.523 --> 00:11:39.003
Mhm.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/55-2
00:11:42.112 --> 00:11:46.017
where people just couldn't stay off.
And they've got more and more of the

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/55-3
00:11:46.017 --> 00:11:49.394
artificial intelligence technology, RPA,
doing stuff that just,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/55-4
00:11:49.394 --> 00:11:51.927
they just can't staff,
they couldn't do before.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/55-5
00:11:51.927 --> 00:11:56.043
And it allows them to focus on more
important stuff. And on failed use cases,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/57-0
00:11:56.243 --> 00:12:00.202
I don't know if I'd say failed use cases,
but there's so many different solutions

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/57-1
00:12:00.202 --> 00:12:03.099
that people are selling at people that
just don't get used,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/57-2
00:12:03.099 --> 00:12:06.188
that just don't get used.
And so systems are getting better and

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/57-3
00:12:06.188 --> 00:12:10.195
better at sort of being intentional about,
we're just not going to even start that

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/56-0
00:12:09.443 --> 00:12:10.043
Mhm.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/57-4
00:12:10.195 --> 00:12:13.864
solution until we really think we've got
a populist that's going to use it.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/57-5
00:12:13.864 --> 00:12:17.243
But you've got so much of it over the
last several years, people that

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/58-0
00:12:17.283 --> 00:12:19.203
bought so many solutions that aren't
using them.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/59-0
00:12:19.403 --> 00:12:23.437
So Scott,
in addition to supporting health IT and

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/59-1
00:12:23.437 --> 00:12:28.116
the provider space,
Becker's Healthcare also supports the

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/59-2
00:12:28.116 --> 00:12:32.553
payer space.
There have been articles enumerating kind

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/59-3
00:12:32.553 --> 00:12:38.603
of an arms race with that that is AI
enabled between payers and providers.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/61-0
00:12:38.803 --> 00:12:42.309
where providers are trying to use AI to
improve their claims,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/61-1
00:12:42.309 --> 00:12:44.854
to have the top code that they possibly
can,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/61-2
00:12:44.854 --> 00:12:49.491
and payers are trying to use AI to deny
claims or to make it accurate as in their

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/61-3
00:12:49.491 --> 00:12:52.884
opinion. You know,
what's going on in the arms race between

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/61-4
00:12:52.884 --> 00:12:54.523
payers and providers with AI?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/62-0
00:12:55.403 --> 00:12:59.526
No, I think that's exactly right.
You have an AI arms race. In fact,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/62-1
00:12:59.526 --> 00:13:03.351
some of the companies are selling
solutions to both, of course,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/62-2
00:13:03.351 --> 00:13:06.876
some of the technology companies.
You have this arms race.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/62-3
00:13:06.876 --> 00:13:10.581
It's very expensive.
The big payers just have abundantly more

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/62-4
00:13:10.581 --> 00:13:14.763
resources than the typical health system
or provider. And so when you

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/63-0
00:13:14.963 --> 00:13:18.523
You know, when you see this, you know,
four of the biggest payers are...

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/64-0
00:13:19.643 --> 00:13:22.453
for the largest companies in America by
revenue.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/64-1
00:13:22.453 --> 00:13:26.007
So right after Amazon and Walmart,
you've got United and CVS.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/64-2
00:13:26.007 --> 00:13:29.332
So they've got a lot of resources to
spend on technology.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/64-3
00:13:29.332 --> 00:13:33.746
They're managing more and more of the
government healthcare programs through

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/64-4
00:13:33.746 --> 00:13:38.046
Medicare Advantage and Medicaid programs.
You know, at the end of the day,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/64-5
00:13:38.046 --> 00:13:38.963
value-based care

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/65-0
00:13:39.043 --> 00:13:41.619
is a euphemism.
I don't know that it really means

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/65-1
00:13:41.619 --> 00:13:44.194
anything,
but you do have the big payers who have

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/65-2
00:13:44.194 --> 00:13:48.211
been put in charge of making federal
health spend and state health spend more

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/65-3
00:13:48.211 --> 00:13:52.177
predictable. And at the end of the day,
a lot of that comes down to denying,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/65-4
00:13:52.177 --> 00:13:55.627
pre-authorizing and everything else,
all the things we don't like,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/65-5
00:13:55.627 --> 00:13:58.923
but they're exactly what the government
has signed in up to do.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/67-0
00:13:59.323 --> 00:14:03.836
Health systems are at a disadvantage just
because they don't have the resources.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/67-1
00:14:03.836 --> 00:14:07.680
The largest health systems,
taking aside HCA and taking aside Kaiser

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/67-2
00:14:07.680 --> 00:14:10.409
Permanente,
which is both a health system and an

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/66-0
00:14:09.643 --> 00:14:10.123
Mhm.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/67-3
00:14:10.409 --> 00:14:13.919
insurance company, you know,
are 30 to $40 billion in revenues

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/67-4
00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:16.537
compared to 400 billion in revenues.
You know,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/67-5
00:14:16.537 --> 00:14:19.155
Common Spirit is about 40 billion in
revenues.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/67-6
00:14:19.155 --> 00:14:22.386
I don't know the exact numbers today.
Advocates up there.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/67-7
00:14:22.386 --> 00:14:23.723
Advent Health has become

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/68-0
00:14:23.843 --> 00:14:26.818
very big,
but they're nowhere near the size of the

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/68-1
00:14:26.818 --> 00:14:31.017
big payers. So when a technology race,
it's just a struggle to keep up.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/68-2
00:14:31.017 --> 00:14:34.342
And it's again,
it's part of the absurdity of our system

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/68-3
00:14:34.342 --> 00:14:39.066
right now that we've got so much money
being spent on both sides of the equation

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/68-4
00:14:39.066 --> 00:14:43.323
to fight with each other over claims
processing. I mean, it's absolutely

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/69-0
00:14:43.363 --> 00:14:43.963
Absurd.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/70-0
00:14:44.363 --> 00:14:48.520
So kind of pivoting a little bit,
but again, kind of looking at the future.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/70-1
00:14:48.520 --> 00:14:52.950
I'm wondering if there are any health IT
or operations challenges that you think

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/70-2
00:14:52.950 --> 00:14:57.325
may be underestimated by the industry or
something that may be in crisis in two

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/70-3
00:14:57.325 --> 00:15:01.537
and three years that people aren't,
maybe they're planning for a little bit,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/70-4
00:15:01.537 --> 00:15:04.763
but they're not really,
like it could be cyber resilience.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/71-0
00:15:05.003 --> 00:15:10.571
talent shortages in IT, post-merger,
system consolidation, cloud modernization.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/71-1
00:15:10.571 --> 00:15:11.963
What are you seeing?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/72-0
00:15:13.563 --> 00:15:16.235
Yeah, I mean, I think the,
not the nightmare,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/72-1
00:15:16.235 --> 00:15:20.184
the Armageddon situation,
and you see this periodically at systems,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/72-2
00:15:20.184 --> 00:15:24.598
is we're so reliant on technology,
the technology goes down and then you're

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/72-3
00:15:24.598 --> 00:15:28.954
out of operations for a while. I mean,
that's obviously the big daily risk

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/72-4
00:15:28.954 --> 00:15:31.683
everybody deals with. You know,
aside from the

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/73-0
00:15:32.843 --> 00:15:35.503
All the new things,
all the two new technologies,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/73-1
00:15:35.503 --> 00:15:39.598
all the new artificial intelligence,
when you talk to CIOs and health system

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/73-2
00:15:39.598 --> 00:15:42.257
leaders,
they will tell you that 80% of their job

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/73-3
00:15:42.257 --> 00:15:45.235
remains keeping the systems running and
resilient 24-7.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/73-4
00:15:45.235 --> 00:15:49.649
So notwithstanding all the discussion of
all the interesting stuff, the new stuff,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/73-5
00:15:49.649 --> 00:15:51.723
the things that could be game changing,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/74-0
00:15:52.123 --> 00:15:54.668
you know,
there's still 80% of the time is spent

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/74-1
00:15:54.668 --> 00:15:58.512
making sure you're 24-7 and you're
resilient and there's not downtime and

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/74-2
00:15:58.512 --> 00:16:01.316
you're protecting the system and
cybersecurity risks.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/74-3
00:16:01.316 --> 00:16:05.003
And I think as artificial intelligence
becomes an arms race, you know,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/75-0
00:16:06.323 --> 00:16:09.379
The payer hospital arms race we could
deal with,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/75-1
00:16:09.379 --> 00:16:14.429
the state actor AI arms race that is sort
of trying to cause trouble and malice,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/75-2
00:16:14.429 --> 00:16:19.043
is a scary thing and remains a scary
thing for everybody and is likely to

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/75-3
00:16:19.043 --> 00:16:21.163
continue to be a very scary thing.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/76-0
00:16:21.883 --> 00:16:26.880
So as many health systems are trying to
tackle all these different challenges and

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/76-1
00:16:26.880 --> 00:16:31.450
keep up in the AI arms race and go
through these technology transformation

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/76-2
00:16:31.450 --> 00:16:35.837
and cloud migration processes and go
through a ton of M&A activity,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/76-3
00:16:35.837 --> 00:16:40.955
sometimes some organizations are building
solutions in-house and other times health

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/76-4
00:16:40.955 --> 00:16:45.403
systems are outsourcing their health IT
work or their IT infrastructure.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/77-0
00:16:45.763 --> 00:16:49.465
to manage services providers.
How are health systems feeling about

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/77-1
00:16:49.465 --> 00:16:52.283
outsourcing IT versus building solutions
in-house?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/78-0
00:16:53.403 --> 00:16:56.277
Yeah,
I don't think there's an absolute uniform

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/78-1
00:16:56.277 --> 00:17:00.107
thought on it. I mean,
my thought on it has generally been that

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/78-2
00:17:00.107 --> 00:17:01.723
most health systems aren't.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/79-0
00:17:02.923 --> 00:17:07.788
I never want to be a builder or a custom
solution. Years ago,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/79-1
00:17:07.788 --> 00:17:13.829
I used to work with many different
parties that would buy software or custom

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/79-2
00:17:13.829 --> 00:17:20.420
build software. I want to be with vendors,
companies that are constantly improving,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/79-3
00:17:20.420 --> 00:17:22.773
constantly doing it, have a...

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/80-0
00:17:22.803 --> 00:17:27.038
bench can deploy and so forth.
So I see systems that are big,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/80-1
00:17:27.038 --> 00:17:30.043
that have the resources to build their
own.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/81-0
00:17:31.003 --> 00:17:33.578
their own resources,
their own technologies,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/81-1
00:17:33.578 --> 00:17:37.525
their own artificial intelligence.
I'm largely not a huge fan of it,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/81-2
00:17:37.525 --> 00:17:42.273
just because you need enough people then
to keep on growing that and make sure you

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/81-3
00:17:42.273 --> 00:17:44.962
can keep on taking care of it.
So I generally,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/81-4
00:17:44.962 --> 00:17:48.108
I'm not saying that you outsource all
your technology,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/81-5
00:17:48.108 --> 00:17:51.883
you outsource all your revenue cycle.
I think it's a whole mix of

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/82-0
00:17:52.203 --> 00:17:57.557
Inside and outside, for years,
it's been too expensive to get the talent

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/82-1
00:17:57.557 --> 00:17:59.243
internal to to sort of.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/83-0
00:18:00.443 --> 00:18:03.963
meet the talent that's external that's
out there. So I think it's hard.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/83-1
00:18:03.963 --> 00:18:07.630
But I think at some point you become
bigger and bigger and you do more and

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/83-2
00:18:07.630 --> 00:18:11.052
more stuff through your own information
system, through your own CIO,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/83-3
00:18:11.052 --> 00:18:14.915
through your own technology program,
but you're still relying a lot on outside

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/83-4
00:18:14.915 --> 00:18:15.403
resources.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/84-0
00:18:15.803 --> 00:18:18.284
So Scott,
as I mentioned at the top of this episode,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/84-1
00:18:18.284 --> 00:18:21.935
you've published a lot of books and your
new book, Building Great Businesses,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/84-2
00:18:21.935 --> 00:18:25.492
actually comes from decades of watching
organizations grow. As I mentioned,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/84-3
00:18:25.492 --> 00:18:28.254
you're of counsel at McGuireWoods,
you're a partner there,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/84-4
00:18:28.254 --> 00:18:32.045
and you also are the founder of Becker's
Healthcare. So you have an opportunity,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/84-5
00:18:32.045 --> 00:18:35.883
especially at your conferences and your
podcasts, to speak with a lot of leaders.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/85-0
00:18:36.163 --> 00:18:39.910
What's a lesson that you'd like to share
with our listeners from health system

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/85-1
00:18:39.910 --> 00:18:42.043
leaders that most need to hear it right
now?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/86-0
00:18:43.483 --> 00:18:46.078
Yeah, no,
I think our health system leaders,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/86-1
00:18:46.078 --> 00:18:49.421
our physician leaders,
our nurse leaders are just overall

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/86-2
00:18:49.421 --> 00:18:53.399
fantastic. You know, as I said earlier,
that they do the wards work.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/86-3
00:18:53.399 --> 00:18:56.858
At the end of the day,
it's constantly about building great

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/86-4
00:18:56.858 --> 00:19:00.145
teams, building great leaderships,
and making an impact.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/86-5
00:19:00.145 --> 00:19:01.643
And the very best leaders,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/87-0
00:19:02.203 --> 00:19:06.040
you know, some of the best leaders.
Jenny Spees was a great example of this

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/87-1
00:19:06.040 --> 00:19:06.443
at UCLA.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/88-0
00:19:07.643 --> 00:19:10.895
Every conversation you have to her comes
back to the core of,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/88-1
00:19:10.895 --> 00:19:15.091
are we taking care of patients really
well? Are we taking care of the customer,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/88-2
00:19:15.091 --> 00:19:17.660
the patient really well?
Is safety really great?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/88-3
00:19:17.660 --> 00:19:21.646
Are we really taking care of people
really well? And at the end of the day,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/88-4
00:19:21.646 --> 00:19:25.684
that's where it all comes back to,
but it's very hard with all the noise out

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/88-5
00:19:25.684 --> 00:19:26.523
there to filter.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/89-0
00:19:26.683 --> 00:19:31.479
everything out and come back to,
it's all about taking care of the patient.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/89-1
00:19:31.479 --> 00:19:35.076
We always view it in businesses.
There's your customers,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/89-2
00:19:35.076 --> 00:19:38.925
which in this case are your patients,
and there's your team.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/89-3
00:19:38.925 --> 00:19:43.279
And the great organizations are very
focused on a handful of things.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/89-4
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:45.803
Their teams, their customers, and just a

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/90-0
00:19:45.963 --> 00:19:48.591
few core things.
And the more and more you bring it back

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/90-1
00:19:48.591 --> 00:19:50.850
to that,
like the best leaders in technology are

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/90-2
00:19:50.850 --> 00:19:53.248
always about,
is this going to help our physicians?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/90-3
00:19:53.248 --> 00:19:56.659
Is this going to help our clinicians?
Is this going to help our patients?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/90-4
00:19:56.659 --> 00:19:59.102
You know, they're very,
very keep on coming back to,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/90-5
00:19:59.102 --> 00:20:02.237
does this have a real benefit to us or is
this just a nice to have?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/90-6
00:20:02.237 --> 00:20:05.003
And so I think it's that constant focus.
I don't think it's

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/91-0
00:20:05.323 --> 00:20:08.590
necessarily anything that's brand new or
any silver bullet.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/91-1
00:20:08.590 --> 00:20:13.109
I think it's very much about, you know,
how are we taking great care of our teams,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/91-2
00:20:13.109 --> 00:20:15.614
how are we taking great care of our
patients?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/91-3
00:20:15.614 --> 00:20:18.282
And I think that's really what it remains
about.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/91-4
00:20:18.282 --> 00:20:22.148
And so many of the great systems in our
country are really doing that.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/91-5
00:20:22.148 --> 00:20:23.563
They're really after that.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/92-0
00:20:24.123 --> 00:20:27.385
So remember your why,
remember constant focus on your mission.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/92-1
00:20:27.385 --> 00:20:29.973
For listeners who want to keep learning
from you,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/92-2
00:20:29.973 --> 00:20:32.923
what's the best way for them to follow
your work, Scott?

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/93-0
00:20:33.723 --> 00:20:36.995
Sure. I think the easiest,
simplest way is probably on LinkedIn.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/93-1
00:20:36.995 --> 00:20:41.072
We've got a core LinkedIn account with
whatever, you know, 50, 60,000 followers,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/93-2
00:20:41.072 --> 00:20:45.250
connect with me, LinkedIn with me there.
That's probably the easiest way. We also,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/93-3
00:20:45.250 --> 00:20:47.565
as you mentioned,
wrote a new book this year,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/93-4
00:20:47.565 --> 00:20:50.987
Building Great Businesses,
which is the 3rd or 4th business book we

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/93-5
00:20:50.987 --> 00:20:53.403
wrote years ago,
four or five healthcare books.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/95-0
00:20:53.763 --> 00:20:56.895
We've got a new healthcare book coming
out next year. So yeah, no,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/95-1
00:20:56.895 --> 00:21:00.448
but if you follow me on LinkedIn,
that's probably the easiest way to follow

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/95-2
00:21:00.448 --> 00:21:02.505
me and see what we're doing. But,
you know,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/95-3
00:21:02.505 --> 00:21:05.403
and love to connect with people and help
any way that we can.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/96-0
00:21:06.043 --> 00:21:09.424
So thank you, Scott, for our listeners.
This has been Scott Becker,

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/96-1
00:21:09.424 --> 00:21:13.452
the founder and publisher of Becker's
Healthcare and a partner of Aguilar Woods.

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/96-2
00:21:13.452 --> 00:21:15.540
Scott,
it's been a pleasure having you on

c6271609-bcb3-47ca-9239-db424170d4f8/96-3
00:21:15.540 --> 00:21:16.683
Healthy Uptime Podcast.