>> Julia: Welcome to Things I Wish I Knew, the podcast from

Thinking Faith, a work of the Jesuits in Britain.

I'm Julia. I'm in my early 30s and I used to live

in a Jesuit young adult community. We all live

hectic lives and often don't get time to reflect

on what's happening both to us and around us. This

podcast is meant to help you to take a moment to

stop and think about where you are, where you're

going, and where your relationship with God fits

into it all. Every week, I meet a new guest who

tells me about something they experienced which

changed their life forever. By talking about the

things they wish they'd known, we'll explore the

idea that God is in all things. And we'll talk

about the part that faith plays in navigating

life's challenges. Today I'm speaking to

Charlotte. She's sharing her journey of letting go

of her carefully constructed plans and learning to

trust God in the unknown.

From pursuing a PhD on Jesuit history to getting

ready to move to LA to pursue music, and then

finding herself unexpectedly back in London. She's

reflecting on the tension of letting go of one

version of the future and trusting in God. So,

Charlotte, what was it like returning to faith as

an adult?

>> Charlotte: I would say that I don't feel like I ever left

faith in that. Like, I would never have described

myself as a lapsed Catholic. I was born and raised

in London, but my. Neither one of my parents is

from London. My mum is American, my father's

German. Moved here before I was born. Um, so I

guess I grew up with a lot of different cultural

influences. Um, I was raised Catholic, got all the

sacraments, um, and then I guess just got lazy in

terms of church attendance and in terms of an

active sense of participation. So in that sense, I

sort of drifted away from it probably in my

university years and early, uh, 20s, but then

returning to it in my mid-20s, really when I guess

I started my PhD. I think I was living in a new

place out in California in the Bay Area, looking

for community. Also looking for, um. I guess I was

sort of embarking on this intellectual journey

with the Ph.D. and so I think the thing that drew

me. Two things I think drew me back into more

active participation in the church. And one was

that weekly Mass community and also singing with

their choir, which was really fun and meaningful.

Um, and then on a sort of more like internal

level, I think I just became really fascinated

with the question, with the sort of thought

experiment almost with the claims that the New

Testament makes about Jesus's resurrection and

miracles in general, which are sort of so

bombastic to be, you know, in a sort of, to a

rational secular mind, like seem quite mad

basically. And I had never, I guess I'd never sort

of rejected those claims in my head, but I'd never

sort of fully tried to reconcile them, I guess.

And so I think for whatever reason, starting

graduate school I became more fascinated with this

question of okay, let's actually, let's play

devil's advocate and assume that actually, you

know, it is all made up. Like let's take the sort

of like rational, so called rational, logical, you

know, position that like it's all a kind of quirk

of like the historical record. What would you keep

from the New Testament that you could say is true?

Because obviously some of it corresponds to

reality. So where are you going to draw the line?

And sort of almost flipping it on its head as a

thought experiment kind of pulled me into this

feeling of I don't think you can meaningfully draw

that line. Even if I can't affirm or let alone

prove to myself or to others that like that any or

all of these miracles must have happened, it still

makes so much more sense to me that supernatural,

for lack of a better word, things did happen,

including the resurrection. Because why would

people behave the way that they then proceeded to

behave like as a community? You know. So I kind of

still have that sense. This is such a messy answer

and I don't have like clarity I guess on the

details, but this sort of more general abiding

sense that on some very basic but kind of freaky

level like it's real, if that makes sense.

>> Julia: It does make sense. And I think you just reminded

me of um, there's a guy on social media who almost

the opposite where he decided what it would be

like to live out faith and to see if he could find

out if God existed from living out his faith where

you've come at it from the other way around.

>> Charlotte: Yeah, because I think it's quite easy to concede

and certainly probably that's like most agnostics

or most agnostics are very close to this. It's

very easy to concede like, oh well, there's

probably some force beyond what we can see or

understand operating, but it's not really going to

affect my life or the material world. That I guess

is already, you know, potentially a might affect

you profoundly or might not, but that is still

whether or not you think God is real is still such

a huge leap from the fishes and the loaves or

Fish, plural, but, you know, like from miracle

stories and the material world supposedly

experiencing these interventions, let alone

someone coming back from the dead. So those claims

are so much more wild.

>> Julia: And there are a lot of wild claims in Christianity

and there are loads. So, Steppenbach, before you,

um, went off to do your PhD, you were doing acting

and singing?

>> Charlotte: Yeah, yeah. So I finished undergraduate in the US

and moved to New York to do acting and singing

professionally and was auditioning and taking

classes and doing small productions here and, you

know, like, off. Off. Off off off off Broadway,

you know. But, um, like, having a really, really

fun time. Like, I think it's like, New York is

obviously an amazing place to be to. To do

theatre.

Probably the best in the world other than London.

Um, and so I was like, I was doing that for

several years and then decided that I was sort of

burnt out on the whole process and figured I

needed, like, a shift in some way. So I was

applying to graduate, graduate schools for

academic programmes and then also applying, still

applying to drama schools because, like, that sort

of the dream was not dead, so to speak. So I

thought, okay, well, I need to, like, change

something, something, um, and it'd be good to

like. And drama school, um, has always been a

dream. And so I was sort of applying to both these

tracks, but as I kind of went along with it,

basically wasn't getting into any drama schools,

um, and then got into this PhD programme at

Stanford and then was sort of facing this kind of

fork in the road feeling where I thought, okay, I

can keep applying. I think I still had, basically,

I still had, like, the UK drama school

applications to go, so I had sort of done the us.

The us, uh, bucket, and still had, like, a whole

other round. But then I also had this sort of

ticket to a completely different, um, path. And I

sort of felt like I needed to sort of move into,

like, more. I needed to kind of make a strong

preemptive choice and go in a different direction

deliberately. Um, and so I decided to just stop

the drama school process and to deliberately turn

towards California. Um, and the PhD. Um, within a

few weeks of the PhD, basically was already

craving auditions and missing the whole thing, so

ended up finding a lot of local, like, school

shows and, like, choirs and this and that, and

then ended up doing, like, songwriting with

friends and forming a band. And so very quickly

kind of found some creative things to get involved

in, um, but still felt like I needed to go in a

very different direction.

I ended up writing on the Jesuits and, um, a

Jesuit author from the 17th century called

Jeremiah Strecksel. And the tagline with him is

that he was the most popular author in Europe in

his day. But no one remembers him because the type

of work that he was publishing, it's not kind of.

It doesn't fit into like a literary canon at all.

It's sort of like almost spiritual self help

books, like spiritual treatises on heaven and

hell. And they had a sort of odd format where they

were these sort of tiny little books that you

could carry around with you. And they had very

beautiful illustration, which was a lot of the

appeal for me as well. But, um. But yes, I wrote

on this figure and got really, um, really

fascinated with Jesuit history in general. Yeah.

And the order.

>> Julia: And so with that fascination, what did you do

next?

>> Charlotte: I mean, I think I spent nine years basically doing

the PhD. So I think by the time I filed, I was

basically ready to step away from academia and do

another hard pivot. And that hard pivot was back

to, um, back to my own personal creative juices, I

suppose.

However, I still love volunteering for this

Catholic radio station called Radio Maria, which

has been a really wonderful community. Um, sorry,

this is to say in terms of like, engagement with

the church, this is less like academic, I suppose,

and less like historical, but more just like

church culture in general.

>> Julia: So you decided to pivot back into like, singing

and acting, uh, that creative industry.

>> Charlotte: Yeah.

>> Julia: Were there people in your life that were like, but

you just left. Well, nine years ago you left that

and now you're going back to it?

>> Charlotte: I think that. Well, yeah, so, I mean, I think

maybe like a lot of people in my life probably

gave up trying to understand the decisions I made

already sort of going into the PhD, going into

acting and singing, then going from that to the

PhD, then going for the PhD back. So I think in

some ways maybe people have sort of let go of

trying to make any of it make sense. Um, I will

say this. I think it is so difficult to finish a

PhD. There's this. I think the experience of doing

a PhD is. It's. Is its own very peculiar kind of

emotional roller coaster.

And there are. I, uh, think it's quite common to

find it extremely difficult to finish for a

variety of reasons. And so I think the. For me,

one of the things that I used as encouragement was

almost like a personal pact with myself that was

like, I could literally do anything with my life,

anything at all. Like what? As soon once I finish.

And I knew that this wouldn't literally be true,

but, like, if I, if I literally wanted to kind of

go live in a hut in Siberia for the rest of my

life and just fish, you know, uh, whatever,

whatever. The most, like, bizarro sort of vision

was like, if that's what I chose to do after

finishing my PhD, I would give myself permission

to do that so long as I finish the thing, you

know? And I sort of made this, like, internal pact

with myself. And I think the people around me also

kind of appreciated that just the act of just

finishing it, uh, kind of released you of, let's

just say, like, immediate kind of obligations,

like afterwards, like you.

Because it just takes, I think what. Maybe what

this is boiling down to is saying that, like, at

least for me, it took kind of every single shred

of, like, mental and emotional energy to make it

over that line. That the idea of planning anything

after that line was just a complete no go, and you

just need to kind of go into, like, complete

recuperation mode. But after that, you know, m.

So. So I. I think the people around me sort of,

like, understood that.

>> Julia: You know, I've had a couple of friends who've done

PhDs and they had similar experiences as well. So

I think you're right when you say it is quite a

common occurrence that, like, people get to that

point of, like, can I actually finish this? And

then they get it finish. And there is just a bit

of, like a now I can breathe again.

>> Charlotte: It is. It's an experience that I've never had in

the same way before in my life.

>> Julia: I feel not the same at all, but in some ways I

felt like that was when I was completing a half

marathon.

>> Charlotte: Oh, that makes m so much sense.

>> Julia: And I was just like, at mile 11 and 12, and I was

just like, I don't know if I can finish this.

>> Charlotte: Yeah.

>> Julia: And then I sort of, like, got to mile 13 and I,

like, sprinted that last bit because, like, just

somewhere that energy came and I made it across

the line and just had the relief of, like,

finishing it, but then being like, I never want to

run again.

>> Charlotte: Like, I will now lie in state for three months.

Yeah.

>> Julia: So after that experience, did pursuing, like,

music and acting feel risky?

>> Charlotte: It did and it didn't. It didn't in the sense that

I think because I had this strong sense of, I've

paid, I've fulfilled what I set out to fulfil,

which is I want to finish the PhD. Um, I've done

that. I can now proceed, you know, kind of give

myself full leeway in that sense. It didn't feel

risky. It felt very risky. In the sense that I was

sort of starting from scratch it felt like and did

not, you know. And obviously like creative

industries are notoriously sort of chaotic to

navigate and it's very unclear. You sort of have

to like make your own, make your own way of it.

And so in that sense it did and still feels like

super risky in terms of working out how to like

fit these pieces together and how are you going to

make it work and what do you want to put out into

the world? And it's just, yeah, it's just sort of

like a massive exercise in improvisation.

>> Julia: And how did your faith help you navigate that?

>> Charlotte: I think I almost can't imagine navigating it like

without faith because I think it just gives you

that sense of trust in something obviously in God

through that uncertainty. I think it definitely

increases my tolerance for uncertainty and a sense

of vocation, like a sense that I want to share.

For me singing is really important. I want to

share that with the world and to a degree I feel

like that's what God wants me to do in some way.

Um and so it definitely gives you that sort of

energy I guess.

>> Julia: So at that point were you living in LA?

>> Charlotte: This gets really convoluted really quickly but

I'll try. So I actually moved all my stuff to LA

after graduating so my brother lives in LA with

his wife and their children and so he very sweetly

you know was happy for me to, to drive all my

stuff down in a massive U haul. It was really fun.

Side note to drive a U haul on the highway in

California. I felt like kind of like one with the

trucks. Anyway I made it to la, left all my stuff

in my brother's um, garage and then went and for

the summer decided to stay at ah, my grandparents

place in Florida and was sort of just

decompressing and being like a sort of like beachy

vegetable and um, just you know just enjoying it

um, but without really a plan. So kind of back to

the point of like risky. Like I was, I was found

some like part time work you know and was just

trying to like slowly piece things together and

come up with a way to like exit Florida and get

back to LA basically.

But hadn't but was like not really. We're sort of

struggling to like put the pieces together. Um and

then basically a kind of long story short, um, a

hurricane like went over our like where we our

neighbourhood. Um and I happened to be in London

at the time visiting my family for like a sort of

you know a few sort of short like a Short visit

basically. And so I basically just, just like

stayed in London in sort of indefinitely because I

couldn't like go back immediately to Florida. To

Florida and like, everyone was fine thankfully, I

should say like that, you know, that was very

lucky. But um, basically yeah. So I basically

decided to just stay in, stay in London at my

parents place and not get on the return flight.

And then after a few days into a few weeks, kind

of discovered like rediscovered London as a city

which I'd never ever planned to like move back to

basically. Or at least not in the immediate

future. Like I think I always thought, oh, it'd be

nice to like end up in London maybe you know, and

like settle there down the line. But like I was

still very like gung ho on la, um, and basically

realised like, oh, actually maybe London would be

like an amazing place to just stay. And so I just

started looking for work here and kind of putting

it all together. Yeah.

>> Julia: So then how did you like let go of that kind of

life you'd imagined or thought you were going to

pursue in la?

>> Charlotte: It was, that actually was quite difficult because

I was so like set on the sense of like, oh, I'm

going to like, I'm going to chase the dream again,

I'm going to chase it in la because that's like,

that's where you go, you know. And like I still

feel a bit of that to an extent. Like I still feel

like, oh, I would love to like make it to LA in

some form or fashion at some point. Like obviously

that's a really exciting place to be. But I

realised that I needed to be somewhere that was

like feeding me creatively especially because I

was sort of restarting this process. And like

London I do think is such a special city with all

these like different cultural ecosystems kind of

layered on top of each other and you can just have

the most insane kind of juxtaposition of

experiences like in the same day, you know. Um,

and so I realised that, yeah, for actually just

inspiration and I found also like community

building very like natural in London. Like

obviously I was, I was lucky to have friends who

were already living here and that helps and that

makes a huge difference. But also discovering new

types of communities, like, it's just to me feels

like a very thriving, kind of eccentric even city.

And so that was like.

I think that's what convinced me that that was

actually going to really feed into this new

direction.

>> Julia: My next question was, how do you trust that what

you were feeling was from God?

>> Charlotte: That is such a good question. And to be honest,

that's a question that I often ask other people

and in particular guests on this radio show that I

host on Radio Maria UK called Spirit Move, which

is, uh, for Christian inspired musicians and

poets. And I'm often so curious precisely because

I don't have a sort of rock solid sense of like,

oh, that's God's voice versus, you know, like my

own egotistical voice, um, or something, um, or

something else from my psyche or some other spirit

or what, you know. So I don't have a super clear

answer for myself other than, I guess I would say,

like, two things. One, I think there is, like,

this is very Jesuit, right? The sort of

discernment. Well, I love when I first kind of

discovered the Jesuit Spiritual Exercises and the

notion of Jesuit discernment in general from the,

you know, obviously dating back to like the mid

16th, early 16th century. Um, as I understand it,

is that sense of, you actually don't, you know,

when you're trying to, like, make a decision about

something. This is me kind of. This is me kind of

translating it into something, I guess, that was

like, practical for me. This is my interpretation

of it. But when you're like, discerning spirits,

so to speak, and obviously you're trying to follow

the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, that's meant to feel

good, you know, like, like, you should be filled

with a sense of like, peace and trust. And this

is, again, this is my interpretation. I'm kind of

paraphrasing it as it makes sense to me, but you

don't, I guess. What am I trying to say? Sorry,

please edit out the faff. Um, you want to follow

things that, like, fill you with that deeper inner

sense of peace and trust. And if you don't know

what that is, then you don't have to follow

something else. You don't have to, like, force the

decision almost. It's like you never need to,

like, feel stuck or kind of committed to something

that feels bad, if that makes sense. You can just

keep discerning and then wait until you kind of

get that thread, if that makes sense of, like,

what you're feeling, like, called to do. And that

really, I think, took a lot of pressure off me

because it sort of relieves you of the, like,

burden of having to commit to something that feels

bad, if that makes sense. And it's like, no, you

can actually, like, take the space to find what,

what you want to follow because it actually is

bringing, like, more light into your life, you

know?

Um, I think I definitely operate with. I, I Try

and be sensitive to that feeling as it organically

comes up in my life. So it's like when you, like,

meet new people who seem particularly inspiring or

kind of curious to you for some reason, you know,

or like new places or new ideas. It's sort of like

responding live to things as they, like, come

across your path and, like, reaching out and like,

engaging with them and incorporating them. That's

how I try and, I guess, proceed.

>> Julia: It makes a lot of sense. I think I've always seen

it as, like, what draws me to something, rather

than, like, if I have that feeling of, like, I

actually want to step away from this, then maybe

that's because I should step away from it. And if

I've got energy or, like, enthusiasm or peace, as

you said, draws me to it. So was that the feeling

you had about wanting to stay in London?

>> Charlotte: Yeah, it felt. London felt like a very nurturing

city the few weeks that I sort of was initially

sticking around. And it still feels like a

nurturing place. Um. Whereas, yeah, it felt like a

place to sort of. To incubate, um, rather than to,

like, push in a direction, but to actually, like,

pause and, like, receive an experiment, you know?

>> Julia: And what have you learned about uncertainty over

the last few years?

>> Charlotte: I think uncertainty is just so much more exciting

than certainty, to be honest. I think the most

interesting and the most fulfilling things in my

life are definitely the ones that I least

expected. You sort of have your overarching goals,

perhaps. Like, I want to sing, I want to release

my own songs. But the steps along that path I

could not have predicted. And I'm so much. I'm so

grateful for the. For the discovery, for the

process of discovery. That was precisely because

I, like, didn't have the answers or, like, some,

you know, in the moment. Like, in the moment of

initially being in London after the hurricane and

not knowing what I was doing and feeling further

away from L. A than ever. Like, that was sort of

one of. In the moment. Felt like one of the worst

moments in my life, you know. But actually, so

much has come of it that. Yeah, so I think m.

Like, absolutely, like, embracing uncertainty and

being open to, like, new new directions and new

experiences, um, is really what, like, makes life

rich and. And ultimately joyful, you know?

>> Julia: And so when you were in that time, you were

considering going back to LA and we talked about

how you had this kind of, like, idea or plan in

your life, and then it obviously changed. Has your

idea of, like, what success is changed? Yes.

>> Charlotte: And, um. No. I mean, I think once I finished the

PhD. I was already coming back to the singing and

the songwriting with a different vision of a

success to what I had initially been operating

with before the PhD. So I think like in my early

20s when I like moved to New York, I was very much

like trying to be an ingenue and like going for

those roles and wanting to be like a famous movie

star vibe, you know, and that. And that whether

consciously and subconsciously probably, you know,

was like my vision of success. And I think through

the process of doing the PhD, sort of walking away

from it, uh, then like rediscovering what I missed

about it and then choosing to come back to it. I

think through that process, it already by the time

I sort of was had, by the time I graduated and

decided to um, focus on this full time, I think I

had already kind of changed that, um, that model,

if you will. And now it's just really exciting to

me if anyone enjoys, you know, like I. I've been

doing a bunch of open mics over the last few

months and kind of workshopping a few songs and

like one in particular and they'd all sort of

take. Take different formats in different contexts

and like sometimes I'll like do it with a friend

at the open.

And it's all still extremely like DIY and small

scale. Like I need, I still need to like record it

and release it. But like any positive response

that I get just on the, on the kind of emotional

level if someone's like, oh, that song really

moved me or uh, like that was, you know, just.

That is so meaningful to me and that's. Now what

drives me is just that feeling of like reaching

someone else's heart in some way with, with a

song, you know. And like I still, I think at some

point in the last few years I think I sort of came

to this feeling of like, I actually think that the

coolest legacy anyone could have. And then this is

not to denigrate any other legacies. Like,

obviously there are like, um, uh, endless ways to

like positively impact the world. But like, for me

the thing that I find the most exciting is

actually to like be a one hit wonder. Like the

number of like one hit wonder songs that I, that

you know, we all recognise and like just. They

just sort of like light you up when they hear

them. And it's like the band might have done

literally nothing else, but that song exists and

is so much fun and is out there. And at some point

I kind of came to that feeling of like, you know

what, Like I would Love to be a one hit wonder.

Like, that would like, obviously it'd be like very

cool to be like more established than that and to

have like a more wide ranging impact. But like, if

you literally, if you just like, if you leave one

amazing song that people love, that to me is the

ultimate. So that's a kind of maybe like longer

term goal in terms of the day to day. Just that

feeling that people. That you're having a kind of

positive impact in real time on people and that

they're finding a song or performance comforting

or moving or exciting. You know, even if it's like

10 people in the room like that, that to me is. Is

what I find exciting now.

>> Julia: So I feel we should say for. For the listeners,

you're now in songwriting and that's what you're

doing in London. Um, yes.

>> Charlotte: Yeah, yeah.

>> Julia: So, like, what role does God play in your

songwriting?

>> Charlotte: I think in general I will. Well, so I will pray a

lot. I think it's a sort of deep sense of trust

that I can express what I need to express and that

it will somehow reach people in a meaningful and

fundamentally uplifting way. It's a tension I do

experience, an ongoing tension, I should say,

with, uh, like artistic inspiration and then

feeling like sometimes, like, let's say, I'm gonna

say like church culture and even you could say

maybe dogma, if you will, like the teachings of

the church and the culture of the church, that

those things do sometimes feel in conflict because

obviously a lot of what the church teaches comes

very much into conflict with like, mainstream

modern culture. And I feel like I very much dwell

in both. Um, and so, like, I do sometimes feel

like a kind of conflict about like, oh, like, is

this. Like, this is like, for, you know, for lack

of a better word, like, this is not a pious song,

you know, and like, am I actually kind of

cultivating or expressing things that are sort of

leading you away from God? And at that point I

basically kind of dwell in like a deeper sense of

trust that actually, for whatever reason I need

to. I. This is part of my life. I need to express

this. And God is going to work through that in

some way that might not look particularly holy on

the surface, but that there is a kind of something

else is at work there. Uh, and I should say that I

feel like actually the song that I've been singing

the most recently, that's kind of the furthest

along right now in terms of solo stuff and demo

and this and that, um, is called One Sick Woman.

Okay. And the song is Basically, like, calling

oneself a sick woman because you're sort of in a,

like, toxic, you know, toxic romantic

relationship. Whatever. Like, I wrote the song,

like, ages ago. Um, but the kind of content, to

me, like, doesn't feel, like, religious at all,

you know, and certainly it doesn't feel, like,

uplifting on the surface, but I still felt this

kind of honesty to it when I wrote it. And, like.

And I still really like singing it because I sort

of find it, like, weirdly empowering and just how

it kind of came together. And every time I sing

it, like, people respond, like, with either that

it's, like, really moving or that it's, like,

strangely, like, invigorating or, you know, like,

it sort of has this kind of seems to have, like,

this, like, positive effect on people. And I was

sort of quite worried during the writing process

that it, like, might be, I don't know, like,

encouraging the wrong thing or, you know, or sort

of, like, demeaning in some way to be singing

about being a sick person, you know, emotionally.

But actually, it's, uh. I've just sort of, like,

chosen to, like, trust that, like, when you

express something very earnestly because you

genuinely, like, feel that way, that that's still.

Can have, like, a positive impact, I guess. Yeah.

>> Julia: Yeah. And it's just kind of reminding me of, like,

um, what Pope Francis said about the church being

a hospital. Right. They're like, whether you're in

the church or you're outside of the church, you're

still having experiences that aren't always

positive. And therefore, people can connect to,

uh, the song because of their own experiences. And

it might be healing to them in a different way to

other ways they might be healing as well.

>> Charlotte: Yeah. To, like, not feel alone in that experience

and to not. I think the point of that song was to

sort of almost be, like, kind to yourself in

accepting that reality and in that moment, not be

trying to push yourself in one direction or

another. Because I think we can sometimes get

really trapped in feeling like, uh, oh, like, what

should I be doing? Like, I should be doing this or

that. And then you're trying to, like, force, you

know, force yourself down some direction in

relation to anything. And sometimes just being

able to, like, let go of all of the kind of

expectations and just say, this is exactly right

now, the moment that I'm in, and I'm just gonna

accept this moment before anything else was sort

of quite liberating.

>> Julia: So going back and looking back over your life is.

Can you see God's hands in all of those like

changes and the pivots that you've done.

>> Charlotte: I think God has basically given me in my own

personal life, given me the trust to basically

take the biggest risks at any given moment. And

then sometimes when things have happened that I

was not planning that, you know, like the

hurricane or other things that happened to me or

so it felt that he's given me the kind of the

courage and the trust to be open to new

possibilities, to make the most of these new

situations. And then the most exciting stuff has

come out of that.

>> Julia: So what do you wish you'd known earlier about

trust, vocation, and uncertainty?

>> Charlotte: I think I would tell my younger self in a way, I

wouldn't have tried to do anything differently. I

think it's okay to not have all the answers, and

it's actually more enriching to not have all the

answers and to work it out as you go along. So I

wouldn't try and have done anything differently. I

wish I could give my younger self that feeling of

trust in general, to be able to enjoy the process

more and to just be more present rather than

worrying. Um, because I think, yeah, the most

interesting things in life are probably going to

come out of left field, are going to be the things

you least expect. And that's. That's a wonderful

thing, actually. So you don't have to have all

the. You can work out your vocation as you go

along. Like, I sort of thought I knew it, uh, in

my mid-20s, and then I stepped away, and now I'm

coming back to it in a different way. And, yeah,

you don't. You don't have to. You don't have to

have the answers at any. At any given moment. It's

just following a thread, you know, and.

And just trusting in the whole process of it, I

guess.

>> Julia: And what are you grateful for?

>> Charlotte: Um, I'm grateful for many, many things. I would

definitely say top on that list is my. My friends

and family who, especially if you're kind of

taking a winding path, you absolutely cannot do it

alone. Um, and I think, like, people, really,

people come through for you in completely

different ways at different points in your life.

And being able to trust in that and be really

grateful for that, I think is like. Is so

important.

>> Julia: Thank you for joining us.

>> Charlotte: Thank you.

>> Julia: Thanks for listening to Things I Wish I Knew. I

know this episode is going to stay with me because

Charlotte was able to use the circumstances she

found herself in to find what she wanted to do

next and learning to trust God in that time. How

about you? We'd love to hear how Charlotte's story

resonated with you. And why not also tell us? If

you're facing an experience you wish you knew how

to look at differently, it might just be something

we can help with. You can find out more about this

and other themes at thinkingfaith.org. Thank you

again for listening. I hope you'll join me again

next time on Things I Wish I Knew.