rich 1.0 My guest in this episode is Martin Dowson, a design and transformation leader who’s passionate about elevating the role of design as a strategic force for business growth. With over two decades of experience across Financial Services, Telcos, Media, and more. He’s built and led design teams, established Centres of Excellence, and guided organisations through complex transformations that align design with commercial outcomes. Martin went from reading our service design book (https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/service-design-second-edition/) hoping to solve a logistics problem (you couldn’t order lobsters on a Wednesday at Sainsbury’s) to spending six years leading design strategy at Lloyd's Banking Group. We talk about what happens when consultants go in-house, why experienced internal voices often get heard less than external ones saying the same thing, and whether AI has the same fundamental scaling problem as the car. Timestamps 00:00 Intro — Martin's background across financial services, telecoms and media 01:00 How Martin and Andy first met at RBS in 2015, and reading Service Design to solve a lobster logistics problem at Sainsbury's 04:30 Going in-house after consulting — why your voice gets heard less the moment you cross the threshold 07:30 The question organisations never ask: why isn't this happening spontaneously already? 14:00 What it actually takes to embed design capability in a large organisation versus leaving behind blueprints and concepts 28:00 Measuring design's contribution to business outcomes — the gap between outputs and impact 45:00 Design leadership in the AI era — what changes and what doesn't 55:00 Why organisations mistake motion for progress, and how incentive structures block transformation 01:05:50 AI has the same fundamental problem as the car — it doesn't scale cleanly, and success makes the resource problem worse not better 01:10:30 The one small thing with outsized impact: our definition of success in education Show Links Martin - LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/designled - Web: https://liminaldesignoffice.com - Podcast https://beingliminal.com Andy - Website: https://www.polaine.com (https://www.polaine.com/) - Newsletter: https://pln.me/nws - Podcast: https://pln.me/p10 - Design Leadership Coaching: https://polaine.com/coaching - Courses: https://courses.polaine.com (https://courses.polaine.com/) - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/apolaine/ - Bluesky: https://andypolaine.bsky.social (https://andypolaine.bsky.social/) - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@apolaine Power of Ten with Andy Polaine https://audioboom.com/channels/5029873-power-of-ten-with-andy-polaine Audioboom https://audioboom.com 480 95 https://audioboom.com/i/43628357/600x600/c 600 600 <iframe width="100%" height="95" src="https://embeds.audioboom.com/posts/8898924/embed?v=202301" style="background-color: transparent; display: block; padding: 0; width: 100%" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="allowtransparency" scrolling="no" title="Audioboom player" allow="autoplay" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-popups allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-storage-access-by-user-activation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation"></iframe>