Jennifer Fisher-EMT, IEP, 504

Wed, Dec 14, 2022 1:56PM
1:06:53
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
child, parents, iep, meeting, school, important, prior written notice, educational, student, disability, called, assessments, special education, screening, concerns, question, document, emt, record, include

00:00
I'm going to hit record now. Well, fingers crossed, and if it does, if you can't hear me, just have me repeat it. Okay, no problem, but I will do our intro and outro after our conversation, so I'mnot gonna have you listened to all that, but what I will do is just jump right in and welcome youand then have you introduce yourself and kind of give me just a, you know, a little elevatorpitch of who you are and what you do and those good things.
00:31
Okay, um, so so just to, you know, I'm fine. Like, when, when should I go off video at any point?Or do you want me on video the whole time?
00:39
It's up to you.
00:40
Okay, I'm fine. On video. I just don't look at myself. I cover myself so it's fine.
00:45
Okay, whatever you want to do whatever you feel comfortable with. I have some recorded with video and without, everywhere in between. We're whatever floats your boat. Whatever makes you comfortable. I'm right at you, because
00:59
that's the best way for me to do it.

Okay, there you go. Um, all right. So you ready? Let's do this. Okay. Welcome to the show. And thank you for joining us. I'm excited to chat with you and help demystify the special education process for parents. And so let's get started. Can you introduce yourself and let us know howyou help strategize for families Special Education style.
01:28
Hi, thanks for having me, Wendy. My name is Jennifer angle Fisher. I am the Associate Director and the Director of the learning disabilities division of Weinfeld Education Group. We are a an educational consulting group primarily focusing on advocacy for students with special needs,which includes giftedness and twice exceptional. We assess students to determine their present levels of academic achievement. We support families through both the section 504 and IEP processes. We do classroom observations, attend IEP meetings and section 504 meetingsand the core of Weinfeld education group is really working collaboratively. One of the other pieces that we're really proud about is that we offer sliding scale fees, so we don't turn anyfamily away because of money. I
02:21
love that I think I love that you guys offer that sliding scale fee for families so that they canreally have the needs met for their individual, kiddo. So let's jump in here. Can you help breakdown for our families and professionals that are listening, the difference between I'm gonna say504 an IEP. But before we get to that, I also want to throw in there an EMT, sometimes they'recalled a screening meeting or a determination of needs assessment there. They have a lot of terms. So I would love to kind of talk about the difference of what those three things are ascreening meeting a 504, and an IEP to set our stage for what we're going to chat about today.
03:08
Okay, so can you just put pause for one second, because I'm just gonna pull up a documentthat really outlines it that I have, okay, I want to have the visual art because I think it'simportant, okay. And if you
03:23
have a visual that you want us to put in the show notes, we can do that too. Like a PDF,
03:28
I have a really good PowerPoint that has this visual. So you might, you know, that's, that's up to you, but it's a really, really good PowerPoint.

Yeah. So why don't you go ahead, and you can, when we're done, just send it to me via email,and I'll generate a PDF with it and we can add that as a link as like a, you know, a downloadablefor folks.
03:50
Okay. So. Okay, so, because it's like, it's a really good visual. Perfect. So. Okay, and just so youknow, an EMT is not is is you said EMT, and then screening interchangeably, and they'redifferent. So just so I'm going to kind of address that. Is that okay?
04:15
Yeah, so I think that's that, I guess, let's go back to that. Because you're the question that I geta lot is, what is an EMT? What is a screening meeting? What is a 504? And I EP, so I'd love for usto set that stage so that people know when what they're asking for what type of meetingthey're going into and really informing and empowering parents and professionals that arelistening.
04:39
Okay, so I'm going to do that and I'm going to generalize it not just to montgomery county, correct. Okay. Just so you know, because EMT is specific to every you know, every state is different.
04:53
Correct. So I'm going to ask you questions that I know answers to, but I want us I know I knowthat you know the answers to conversation so that parents, the people that are listening thatdon't know are gonna say, oh, okay, now I have a frame of reference of what an EMT is. Okay,that's that means that are what is the screening meeting, which has different types of namesthroughout the country as well. So just to kind of
05:16
perfect. I mean, I know you know, this, I was just talking through it, I guess. Sure.
05:20
Yeah. No problem. Okay.
05 27

So just start talking again, whenever you're ready. Yep. You got it? That's a great question. So an EMT meeting, which can also be called SST meetings and other states, people, personnelmeetings, etc. It's in Maryland, it's called the educational management team. And what it is, is a group of professionals and staff that work at the school to discuss the student, it is not part ofa legally mandated process. In any state, it is not part of the Individuals with DisabilitiesEducation Act, or IDE, A, which is the special education law. And it's not part of the section 504 plan. So it's really a very informal meeting. Sometimes parents asked for a section 504 Or a, anIEP meeting, and they get deferred to what's called the EMT meeting. And just so parents know, that is not part of a legally mandated process. And they still have the rights to request theother meetings, which we'll get into in a few minutes. So the EMT meeting is again, like I said,informal team collects nodes, typically the parents share concerns, and the school comes upwith an action plan. And then action plan could involve going down the IEP route, which isunder ide a, it could go down to the route of looking for eligibility for a section 504 plan. Or it could be just implementing an informal plan, such as a reading intervention and a schoolbehavior management plan, whatever the concern is, the parent that they brought to theschool. So that's what an EMT meeting is. Now regards to a screening meeting. And in Maryland, it's called the child's find meeting. That is the first step of the IEP process, the individualized education plan process. And that is a legally mandated process with a given timeline. And that child's find meeting that screening meeting is when the parents share theirconcerns, everything is documented, there are
legal notes, they're called prior written notice.And the parent shares their concerns and the school determines whether or not they suspectan educational disability, which is different from a medical disability, which we can get into alittle bit later. At that time, the team which 100% involves the parents, you as the parents aremembers of the IEP team determine whether or not they suspect an educational disability. And then there's a conversation about is there additional information needed a warranted to make that determination. And if so, they may recommend assessments either a cognitiveassessment, which we used to call IQ scores, the they would recommend educationalassessment which to determine what their child your child's present levels are in math, readingand writing. They will look at executive functioning or attention. They could also look atdepression, anxiety, and ADHD, again, depending on what the concerns are. So that's the first step of the IEP process. However, the team can also determine the school based team can also determine whether or not since they're determining whether or not they're a suspect aneducational disability, they can say no. And then what happens the parents can appeal and wecould talk about some dispute resolution options. afterwards. They can disagree with the teamwhich they should and document in those notes, which are called prior written notice. But typically, the team may either say, well, we don't really suspect an educational disability, wesee that your child does have ADHD, for example. So we can write what's called a section 504 plan, or they might send you back to the EMT type the EMT meetings to discuss some informalways to to work with your child and do some trial interventions. So those are those are reallythe differences between the initial meetings of the three different options the EMG meeting thescreening for child's fine, or the section 504 plan.

09:44
So if a parent is concerned about their child, their student in terms of school from like the bowwhen they get to school to the closing bell when they leave school, what should a parent do?So first, the, excuse me, the first thing they should do is have a conversation with the classroomteacher, the classroom teacher is, knows your child the best and share those concerns. Now, that typically happens in an informal conversation. So parents of kindergarteners, first graders,you know, new students to schools, that's usually where the conversation happens. However, if a teacher if a parent continues to have these concerns, even if it's after one month, not theydon't have to wait years and years and years, they should write a letter to the school and copand email the principal, the assistant principal, and the classroom teacher requesting a IEPscreening meeting, if they suspect their child has an educational disability, that could beanything from learning disability, autism, speech and language like receptive and expressivelanguage where you feel like your child is not understanding what they are hearing, or they'renot able to get out orally, what they're trying to say, if they're concerned about your child, ifthey're concerned about their child's writing, you know, is their spelling inappropriate or poor?Is their handwriting not developmentally appropriate? Are they having a hard timeremembering math facts, I mean, even those basic skills or concerns when they get to a certaingrade, and so they write a letter and they say, can, you know, requesting an IEP screeningmeeting now, it's very important in that letter, that language is used, we are requesting an IEPscreening meeting, because that is a general term that we suspect our child has an educationaldisability, and they're not able to access the general education curriculum, that starts the IEP process. And the team is required, the school is required to hold a screening meeting, to gothrough those questions that we just, you know, that I just discussed about it, you know, aretheir concerns and if they suspect a disability, you know, should they test? So that is really,right, right, what you should do right away. It's not, it's not great, it's not a good idea to waityears and years and years of continuing to express your concerns to the school. You want early intervention, and you want it swiftly. And the IEP process is a way to do that. So we step.

12:33
Oh, just so you know, I didn't say this in the beginning. But I made like, just pause sometimes,just so you can make sure that you had everything set up. Let's talk about we talk about an IEP screening. And then you talk about an education management team, which is also calleddifferent things in different areas. What would be best to ask for it sounds like if a parent hasconcerns, just specifically state, I'd like an IEP screening meeting so that you can discuss whatthat means for specialized instruction versus an educational management team. Can we kind of talk a little bit about that difference? Deeper, so that people can understand the difference ofthe two?
13:29
Yes, so if so, I mean, I'm just gonna go back to the, to the, I mean, your question is really, I'mjust going to repeat your question for you. So you just want to make sure I'm answering it theway that you want me, you know, the way that you're, you're asking for it. So what you're whatyou're asking for is what type of meeting the parents should request? Correct? Correct. Right.And so my response before was that they should always request an IEP screening meeting.
14:03

14:21
I guess, for parents to understand exactly what takes what it would be the purpose of aneducational management team meeting, what is the school based purpose of that just soparents can really and professionals listening can really understand the difference of yes, weknow that the IEP screening meeting is going to kick off some legal stuff that we're going tochat about here. But what would the purpose be of that educational management team for a child?
14:48
Okay. I hear you. I just wanted to get, you know, clarification on what you were. Were asking because we because just because
15:01
no profit.
15:06
So, the the educational management team meeting, the EMT meeting that we're talking aboutearlier, is really a school based team and parents are involved in that process, they get invitedto the meeting, there are no required members. But it typically consists of the classroomteacher, a guidance counselor, or a special educator, and they listen to the parents concerns.And what that could mean for a child is is that the parents share their concerns, the school willshare information such as, you know, reading levels and math levels, and how they've done onstandardized tests. Some of those may include and, you know, all around the country, they usesomething called Mac testing for reading and math to determine reading levels. And that's just one example. There's iReady, there's other diagnostic materials they use. And then the school will come up with an informal plan. So they might put your child in a reading intervention class,they may have the school counselor meet with your child if there are some social, emotional orbehavioral concerns. But the goal of all of this is to make your child available to learn that theycan access the curriculum. So some students, for example, may have a difficult time with withmathematics and may require additional support, that team could decide and determine that,yes, we're going to implement or give this child some more small group instruction, or workwith the Para educator in the classroom. That's just one example. If the child has some behavioral concerns, such as work avoidance, for example, if Writing is hard for the students,sometimes we see students go to the bathroom a lot, or ask for a drink of water or go to theirlocker because they're trying to avoid work, the team may come up with a behavior plan or away to collect and a data collection plan to determine what is causing their work avoidancewhat's happening, right before they're going to the bathroom to see if there's a pattern or trendare they being presented with a task that involves a lot of writing, and that's the antecedent,for them to want to avoid the work. And that could be a pattern in mathematics that could be for reading, it doesn't, there's no set antecedent, and then create an intervention. And if the behavior piece, if that's the behavior piece of work avoidance, they want to determine thefunction which is, you know, the data collection, then the team would implement a behaviorplan, which can you know, for the elementary school could be a behavior point sheet, whereyour child earns rewards or points or tokens, and then would have an incentive. But once theydetermine the function of that behavior, the team may also look at other academicinterventions. So that's really what happens at an EMT meeting and may come back to theteam or they should come back to the team every eight weeks or at the end of every quarter tosee if those interventions have worked and your child is back on track. And if not, at that point, the team may recommend going to an IEP screening meeting.

18:14
Thank you for clarifying that. I know there's some confusion in terms of it almost seems like a choose your own adventure option in terms of like, what are we supposed to do? You know, Ithink parents have this fear and this frustration, and it's their baby, and they're just trying tofigure out what's the best route to go down. And so, you know, let's go back to that parent requests for an IEP screening. Are there ways parents can more effectively advocate for theprocess that takes place, meaning that they write a letter requesting the IEP screening? Howcan a parent effectively advocate the areas of concern that they're seeing with their student,their child, but then also to ensure that they didn't miss anything? Because often, when we'recoming from a place of fear and love, we say, all right, my student has challenges in reading,oh, my gosh, I need to get an IEP for reading. But sometimes, if we take that greater view,there's some other elements that may be impacting that student with accessing theireducation. So from a parent's standpoint, they're writing this letter requesting a screening. Is there anything that you have seen work well, to ensure that that parent is addressing kind ofglobal concerns?
19:44
Oh, absolutely. That is a fabulous question. So the first thing a parent should do again, afterthey noticed this, they're concerned, right? If they're concerned about reading or writing ormath, any of those basic skills, even if If they're concerned about their child's organization, forexample, their child's not turning in homework or having a hard time with homework. And theywant to request this formal process, they must write a letter to the school the principal, theassistant principal requesting specifically, an IEP screening meeting, the letter must specificallystate that they suspect their child has an educational disability. And they must specifically state that it is impacting their ability to access the curriculum. So those are the three points that need to go into that letter. for documentation purposes, if you're sending an email, have theletter be attached to the email, instead of it being embedded in the email just so they can, it'sbetter for documentation purposes. And any communications you do have with the school.Always put at the bottom of the email, please confirm receipt, just so you have that knowledge,first of all, that they're reading it and they can open it. But then also, it does create a sort of paper trail for you to have. It's also very important to set up the tone set up the state for beingcollaborative, you want to work with the school, not against them. Because we don't getanywhere in life by being mean to people and, and these teachers and professionals are thereto help your child. So it's important to set up that tone. And so adding to the letter, I look, you know, we look forward to working collaboratively with your team. Those little sentences go a long way. So they know you're working with them and not against them. So that's the best way to start. The process is by writing that letter.

21:49
Now I forgot your second part of the question today. But it wasn't just me, because then I would have felt really bad.
22:00
No, no, I am. How can a parent in short, that they're kind of taking more of a global view ofwhat they see versus I see an impact and reading, but what can we make sure that we're isthere something that a parent can do to ensure that they're casting a broader net, in terms ofimpact for their students so that when they go to the screening meeting, everything is lookedat? And then if it goes moves forward to assessments that they're ensuring that the student isassessed and all needed areas?
22:40
Yes. So that is that is really a great question. And actually, what's important when I talkedabout setting the stage, that's a really good way to look at it is that it's really important forparents to recall know that it's possible that like, like I shared before, that the difficulties inreading, writing and math may not be due to the inability to learn how to read, write, and docalculation. There could be emotional reasons, attention reasons that they're not able to accessthe curriculum. So for example, a child who has experienced some trauma such as the death ofa parent, they're moving into a new school system, and the curriculum may look different, theteaching styles are different. Those can all be contributing factors to why they're seeing adecrease in performance in the academic areas, there could be some social pieces going on,especially as the kids get up in age that they're, you know, your child's maybe being bullied orthere could be some social scenarios of peer pressure, and all of that emotion, and especiallywith the pandemic, all of the mental health issues that have arisen during the pandemic forthese students are really impacting their ability to access the curriculum. So when you go to ameeting, it is super important to be prepared for that meeting, and to make sure that you'reable to express everything going on in your child's life, but also know what questions to ask theteam, especially in those social emotional areas. So I always have parents prepare a statementprior to going into any school meeting that lists out in bullet form, because bullets are muchmore effective than writing a summary. Especially when you're talking to a team because it'sextremely intimidating, walking into a meeting by yourself or even with one other person with1012 staff members and you're walking in, you're sitting down and they say to you tell uswhat's going on. What are your concerns, and I see this all the time and I understand this alsoas a parent, you kind of don't know what to say. So being prepared is very, very important. So I always tell parents to write a parental input statement. And you don't have to give it to theschool before the meeting, you use it as your talking points, and you can give it to the school inwriting after the meeting in case you want to tweak it. So what I have parents do is separate alist with the parental input is, what are your child's strengths? What are they great at? What arethe gifts that you see in your child, which may not be the same gifts that the school sees? What are their interests and hobbies outside of school, bringing the positivity to the table isimportant, because not everybody at that table and that meeting and I say table, but I'm reallysaying meeting will have eyes on your child or even had met your child. So you want to paint them a picture and bringing a picture of your child's is is even better. So they have a visual of who your child is. And they're not just a case number, or any random student. So sharing allyour child's strengths and then sharing your concerns, not just the academic concerns, as asWendy noted, but also other pieces going on behind the scenes. Was there a recent divorce or a move? Are you noticing difficulties with your child's paying attention at home where they'rereally tired, small things? How are they sleeping? How is their eating any thing that you canthink about in their lives, you want to share and be open with the team because keepinganything from the team is not going to be able to allow them to help your child to being openand honest and communicative with the school is very important. And having that document to guide that discussion. And to guide your talking points in advance is important. Another other pieces that you will put into that document are you'll have your strengths, you'll have yourconcerns, but a really good question to put to yourself coming into the meeting is what do youwant from the school? How do you think the school can help your child? And it's a hard questionto answer because a lot of parents don't know what services the school has to offer. So you canuse broad strokes I want we want the school to teach our child how to read, or we want the schoo
l to let us know if our child has autism. We want the we want the school to tell us why ourchild's is having difficulty making friends not invited not being invited to birthday parties notgiving us eye contact and conversation melting down when they get home. In regards to theirhomework, I mean, anything that you want the school to do, we want the school to we want ourchild to work with a special education teacher because we're concerned about their writing. We want to know if the school can provide counseling services. I mean anything, can the schoolgive us an extra set of books for home, anything that you want the school to do to help yourchild you can ask for because it's not based on what resources the school has. It's based on what your child needs. So coming into the meeting, being proactive preparing in advance is important. And if you forget something, it's okay, because there is a forum typically at ascreening meeting that will go through their educational history and talk ask you questionsabout, you know, have you had their vision checked? Have you had their hearing checked?When was the last time they had their annual checkup? Are you concerned about your child'sspeech? You know, are they listening or mispronouncing misprint mispronouncing any words?So they'll ask you those direct questions. So if you miss anything, it's okay. Because they'll ask you questions. And if you remember something at the end or a question they asked youtriggers a thought, then you can say it. And at any time during the meeting, you can pause andsay, You know what, I need a minute, let me think or I need a break is that's fine, too. So being proactive and communicating with the school is very, very important.

29:08
I know people can't see us, but I'm shaking my head because there's just I hope people aretaking notes, if not really listening, because you, Jennifer, I've just dropped so many fantasticnuggets and low hanging fruit that people can grasp on to and really put into action now. And you know, I love what do you want from the school? That's a great question. And I kind of always term it as you know, if you had a magic wand, and you could wave it over the schooland ask for anything, what would it be and have, as a parent, start writing those things downand then prioritizing the elements and you can do that as a team. You can do that as an individual before you go in. But I think it's really important to then have this ahead of time, likeyou said, and prepare because it's empowering. Because I say it all the time on the podcast, you walk into that meeting as a parent. And the room usually gets quiet, right. And so then you're very self conscious of what is happening. So it's like walking into a party, and all of asudden you walk into the party, and people stop and listen and stop and look at you, you startto then become nervous and self conscious. So if you're prepared, and you have this, andagain, you don't have to share it with the team, but you have these bullet points of your babyand how you see your baby the gaps, the gains, what you're looking for, then you can be moreconfident with the conversation and setting that tone. So I think that's excellent advice. Can I ask you, you mentioned prior written notice, when would a parent expect to receive a priorwritten notice? So we really have just gotten to the IEP screening meeting, we went throughthat screening meeting, what apparent expect to receive a prior written notice, after that initialscreening meeting,

31:02
I'm going to pause you for one second, because there's a people working next door and theirmusic is super loud, okay. And I'm just going to tell them that they need to lower their music. Fantastic. All the line. And now, you're gonna laugh really hard at me, because it was my Alexa from my bedroom. Because I had it on timer.
32:03
She wanted to be part of a conversation. And so yeah, so at least I know it works. So the timer works. Alexa,
32:12
can I add one thing to the part about what parents can bring to the meeting? Yes, it's reallyimportant. Okay. One other piece that parents can bring to the meeting are work samples, it'sreally important to bring what you have tangibles of what you're concerned about. So for example, if you are concerned about writing, if you have work samples that you can bring in,then that's fabulous, because you may see a different child's, you know, your, your view of howyour child's rights rights may be different than the schools, typically schools may would giveyou a final work product, versus what a rough draft looks like. So it's important if you have those work samples to bring them in. Also, if you have any other data at home about, youknow, when you hear them reading, I have parents bring videos of their child to the school, atmeetings, because if they, if the school is saying their child's can do something, and then theparents working at home with the with your, if you're working at home with your child, andthey're not doing it, then 100% You can bring in a short video or send it in advance to themeeting. So it's not just about what you're saying. You could it's also about what you can bring.And I just wanted to add that because it's important.
33:39
Absolutely, that is incredibly important. Bring video work samples. And you can also mark if achild was medicated when they did a sample, non medicated and kind of add in some elementsthere for parents, because I think the more you bring to show an educational impact, the betterthe outcomes will be.

34:02
Right and being prepared for the meeting and being proactive. So if there was an outside evaluation, if you had decided to test your child for any type of education about any type ofdisability before the meeting, send it to the school in advance, so they have time to review it.You don't want to hand it to them at the meeting, because a they won't be able to review it atthe meeting and they won't have a chance to really read what you're presenting and it'simportant to give that in advance as well.
34:33
You bring up a good point, Jennifer, parents will often ask, Should I pursue assessments andtesting provided through the school system or should I seek outside assessments? What is yourtake on
34:49
that? So it depends on where they are in the process. Right. So if they have concerned and it'sthe first time they're going to the school and the school decides to test and the school says,You know what? Yes, we agree. We think that there's an educational disability, we think that weknow we want to recommend assessments to determine if there's, you know, a disability, thenthey'll offer testing and the pros, it's free, right? It's free the school has to test will it be as indepth as you may want it? No, because the schools do not conduct neuro psychologicalassessments, which is important to know, which are more in depth in regards and they actuallyhold a different perspective, you know, it's a different way of interpreting the data. But you will,most likely it would recommend a psycho educational, which again, is the cognitive, what theirability levels are, and an achievement test, which is the academics, and also rating scales forlet's say, executive functioning skills, attention, depression, anxiety, any other types of nonacademic skill, you know, non academic issues or concerns that you have. So it's free, there's a legally mandated timeline. So therefore, you have to wait for the testing to get done, becauseit's a 90 day timeline from start to finish of the process. And some families don't want to wait 90 days to get the results and to come back to see if their child will qualify for services. And they decide to test privately. So with testing privately, there are also pros and cons, the pro ofit is that you can ask for more in depth assessments. So for example, if the school feels thatthey have enough information with the psychoeducational, that might be the end of the theformal assessments, whereas if you're working with a neuropsychologist or a privatepsychologist, that they might want to dive deeper into different areas. That's not to say the school system wouldn't do that. But it's really dependent on the school psychologist to make that determination. Right. So that's the first pro of a private assessment. The second part ofthat which isn't, which isn't the best, you know, which is actually the, the mesa, anotheranother pro to that is that you get to choose who's assessing your child. So you can meet a fewdifferent people see which one kind of jives with your style and has a good rapport with yourchild, your child may work better with a male versus a female psychologist, just it's an you getto choose. Now there are cons to having a private evaluation as well, which are a it's a fortune of money. For you for some families, yes, for some families, no, it's all relative, they can goupwards of 3000 to I've seen some that are five and $6,000. insurance doesn't typically coverthe educational portion, they may cover this psychological, but you have to check with your insurance companies. Some hospitals like no Children's Hospital, Kennedy Krieger, I'm justtalking about local ones, Johns Hopkins, offer free assessments, but typically there's like a yearor more waiting list. So that's also really frustrating. And that also may not cover theeducational portion, the financial educational portion of the assessment. So that's one negative side. The the other negative side is that the school does not have to accept the report. And it is also considered a medical diagnosis, not an educational diagnosis, an educational disability. So while your child's may be, they may determine that your child has dyslexia or, you know, alearning disorder in in, in right in written expression written language, then that the school maylook at it and say yes, well, we understand that's a medical diagnosis. However, we're not seeing the educational impact. So therefore, we're not finding your child eligible for special education. So because there are different definitions of an educational disability versus youknow, the more medical, the medical, medical disability that you would get from an outsideevaluation. That's one. The second piece is if they accept the report, and they usually willaccept the report, that does not mean they are going to accept all the recommendations of that report. And that's where it really gets into the weeds. So for example, we see some reports that are recall, like boilerplate. So no matter who the child is this, you might see the samerecommendations for every child that has dyslexia or every child that has autism, dependingwhere they are on the spectrum. So, you know, we want to make sure those reports are really individualize. And then the school may disagree. So where the private report may say, youknow, your child requires one to one instruction throughout the school day, for example, ifthey're really below grade level, or your child needs direct and embedded social skillsinstruction, the school will say, you know, oh, we don't see that we don't agree there, youknow, we're not going to take that recommendation. So those are really the pros and cons of the report. If you are getting an outside assessment, then it's important that the school knows that. Because if they decide to also conduct additional assessments, you can't have the sameassessment completed within a year, you get what's called the practice effect. And one of those assessments won't count. So it is important for you to sign a release. And I can't stress this enough that communication between outside providers and the school is essential. And it's critical, because everybody here wants to help your child, and it does take a village. And so the collaboration is really, really important.

41:05
I just sidestep for a moment, how would a parent work collaboratively with a team when you'retalking about recommendations and an outside
41:17
evaluation. So again, it would depend on where they are in the process. If you're at an IEPmeeting, and the school recommended testing, at that point, you would have either had anassessment, right? Because you're at this stage, you might have brought the assessment andthey are just collecting additional data, or they're recommending assessment and you're kindof on the fence, you know, should I let this should I have the school do it, should I look intoprivate assessments, or you're 100%, letting them know that you're doing it privately. At that time you let the school know, you do not have to sign anything at that meeting. And it's, you know, don't feel pressured to sign right away. You can take the paperwork home to read andreview and go over and call a consultant or, you know, talk to your doctor about it, you know,ask asks a professional, I always caution parents, to compare their children to other to other children with similar disabilities or similar concerns or issues because every child is different.So even if another child has difficulty reading, their skill deficit could be different. So it's, it's important to ask questions, and not feel like you have to answer the team right away, becauseyou can't get back to them. And do your research, you know, find somebody who you wouldlike to test your child's if you don't feel comfortable with the school, hopefully, you will feelcomfortable with the school and you trust, you have to have a level of trust of where you'resending your child to school. And I always tell parents to walk into that situation with a, youknow, with some positivity, and with the expectation of collaboration. And so when we were in person, and now that we're going back in person, I know this sounds silly, but I always, youknow, I say to parents, if it again, it's based on financial need, or I might bring it, you know, aset of munchkins from the donor job, you know, bring a box of coffee or even, you know, a littlebit of candy, just something to, to kind of I don't say lighten the moment, but, you know, showthat it's going to be collaborative, and that you're working together. I mean, a little bit goes a long way. And teachers are always hungry, because I was a classroom teacher. And we were always on sweets, right. So yeah, so that's, that's a way to build the the collaboration andgetting what's called an ROI or release of information. So if you do work with an outsideprovider, whether it's a mental health professional therapist, whether your child's gets privatespeech, language, whether your child is going to see a private occupational therapist, physicaltherapist, anyone outside of the school, it's great and ideal to have that communication, youdon't want to. You don't want to hold information back from the school. And I think, and I'm saying this also, as a parent and a consultant, sometimes it's a natural feeling to not want toshare every little detail that's going on, right? You don't want to share about any discourse inthe home, or any other trauma that you're having that your child's can be kind of getting thatvibe off of you. So it's normal to feel that way. But, and it's hard to share some of that information with the team. But if there could be any educational benefit to sharing it, then then you should. That would be my recommendation.

44:44
Yes. So let's talk about prior written notice for a moment. Okay. Let's go to kind of the IEP screening meeting, kind of back to where we started. What a parent expect to receive a priorwritten notice As as a result of their screening meeting, and then I want to kind of talk aboutwhat is even what a prior written notice is.
45:10
So prior written notice, and I know it sounds ridiculous, but prior written notice is are almostlike notes from the meeting that you receive after the meeting. So even though it says prior, it's really what's covered during the meeting. And it's probably the most important document you'll receive after the meeting. So any requests that you make at that meeting, so forexample, if you say, let's say your child does have an IEP, and you say, I want more services inreading, or I want counseling, or I want you to test for, I'm concerned, my child is pressed, isthere anything you can do, they'll go back to the mental health piece, my child's coming homeand going to sleep and not completing their work, anything, and you are making a request oruse, you want to make sure that that request goes into this document called prior writtennotice and the initials the acronym is P wn, and special education is we know it's full of acronyms. We actually, you know, wag our group, we actually have a postcard with all theacronyms on it, we give to parents because it's hard to keep track of it's like speaking a foreign language. It would be like me, you know, going and into a conversation about medicine, youknow, and knowing all the it's like, you know, you're gonna pause that far right. Now works. On your words, too, sometimes.

46:45
Yes. As my editor is listening to this, he's probably laughing like all the time, I have to clean her up.
46:51
I'm really sorry, to your editor.
46:54
No problem. Can I take you up on that?
47:02
Yeah, so, um, so during the meeting, it's really, really important to ask for what you're askingfor and what you're saying to be documented, again, for the paper trail purposes. But goingback to the collaboration piece, when even as a consultant, we want to set this so that we100% want to set the stage for collaboration, even with the first email we send to the school,we I look forward to working with your team. I'm excited to work with your team, again, you know, anything to let them know. And actually, as a consultant, when I go to the schools, I startout by saying you are you familiar with our group, this is our philosophy, we workcollaboratively, it takes a village, we are transparent, we don't want to, you know, we want tojust make sure we have good communication. So setting that tone right away is equally as important for consultants as it is for parents. But during the meeting, it's okay to say can youdocument this in prior written notice, I typically then say, just so you know, I look at priorwritten notice not as a negative thing, and not as a bad document. But really just to document, you know what we're talking about. Because if we come back in three months, it's good to beable to recall what was discussed, to let the team know you're not looking at it as a threateningdocument. So then, after the meeting, and in different states, they have different regulations inthe state of Maryland, for example, the school has five business days to get you thosedocuments after the meeting. And those are, when you get an email from the school. Typically,the subject line says five day documents or five day docs, so it might not say PW enter priorwritten notice. And that's really every document that was produced from that meeting. So it could include the prior it will include the prior written notice, it will include if you signed consentfor them to test, it will include that document, it will include let's say if they wrote an IEP, it'llinclude the revised or draft IEP. And it is of the utmost important to read that prior writtennotice, word by word to make sure that every single thing that you asked for, or that talkedabout, or that wanted in the notes of the meeting is there. And if it's not, that document is not the end all be all you can write and should write what's called a response and what I call it iscorrecting the record. And when I go to meetings, I you know, as all consultants, I'm sure youknow all consultants because we take pretty copious notes. So we can you can submit your notes to the school, because they're your notes and those can be uploaded into your child'sfolder. And you can also and you should also write a letter and ask them to attach your yournotes or your letter to their prior written notice and most count Most states have, everything iscomputerized, everything is yours. Everything is digital, sorry, Brian, everything is digital, andcan be uploaded into a system in Maryland is called mo IEP for those listeners in Maryland, and,and corrected every time you ask for something at a meeting, I want more services for mychild, I want the school to test my child, I want to know if my child's can change classes,anything, no matter how small or how big, the school has to respond, not only to what they'redisagreeing too, but what they are agreeing to. And they have to provide a rationale of why they're disagreeing. So it's a great document. In general, I really liked the document. But it's super important to make sure that it's accurate when you get it.

50:52
Would you recommend that if you are setting the record, and you're following up, that you puta note in there in terms of your emailing? You know, here's my notes, this is what I want to setthe record straight on that that is do you formally state please attach this to the prior writtennotice with this date? And then or please upload this to the students file? What would yourecommend parents state to make it more formal?
51:21
Right? So if there are inaccuracies in any of the IEP paperwork, the first thing is you have to letthe appropriate team member No, which is again, correcting the record, while also maintainingyour relationship, I keep wanting to go back to that. You could first ask them, you know, willyou correct it so it is on their on their paperwork, you know, on their state paperwork on the Ion their prior notice document themselves. And if they don't agree, then you can then ask for itto be included in you can say please include this as part of my parental input because it wouldbe considered input or an addendum to their notes. Or you can determine whether or not to make a FERPA request. And a FERPA request would be to amend the record. Versus if submitting your statement for the record suffices.
52:19
What does federal law say about prior written notice?
52:24
So that's a really good question. So I was actually referring to So okay, so going back to FERPA,so FERPA stands for the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act. And it is a federal law that protects the privacy of student education records. And the law applies to apply to all theschools that receive funds under the applicable program from the United States Department ofEducation. And FERPA gives parents the certain rights with respect to their educational records,and up to the age of 18 until they unless parents get consent. And you have the right to like inspect and review the records. If you you can have the right to request that a school correctrecords which you believe to be inaccurate or misleading. And that's where if they don't agreeto correct the record, that's where your rights come in, under federal law.

53:25
So if a parent feels like their voice, or their student's voice isn't being heard, what steps shouldbe taken and kind of where do you guys come into the picture for families. So
53:45
we, so we come into family. So consultants come into the process at at all different stages,right? We come in, if the parents are just starting to get concerned, we come in if the parentsand the schools kind of have a damaged relationship, we want to help repair it. We come in, we give objective expert opinions. So we are not hired guns. But we guide the parents through all of these what, you know, these these pieces. If there's a disagreement, we also know whereour job ends, and the parents may require working with a special education attorney. So that's also part of what we do. But we we because our group works so collaboratively, as othereducational consultants do as well. You know, we rarely get pushback regarding having theparental document become part of the record by asking the school to include it as part of therecord. So they might while they might not correct their record. We want to make sure it's included in this in this student's file. And that's where we would come in. It's it's it's kind of sad to say that sometimes the parents voice Is are not heard, until an outside professional getsinvolved. It does it makes, it makes me feel sad that parents will ask and ask and ask andbecause the law is complex, and the materials that parents are told to read, you know, theirrights and their rights as parents is, is not as easy to read as we would like. And honestly, it'snot as easy to read as we would like, because a lot of it is complex language in general, that'sdifficult to to, to put into layman's terms, no matter how hard you try. And not knowing thatthey don't know what to ask for a how to navigate some of these pieces. And that's reallywhere we come in, I would encourage families to, you know, there's this when parents start theIEP process, they get a procedural rights booklet, and it summarizes the law, you know, it, ittells them what they're entitled to. But it's dense, and it's small. However, if you go on to yourstate's website, or you go on, even if you go to Google, and you Google rights, you know, yourstate regulations, there are easier documents that to read that will give you the same content,like our our group put something out as well. And in Maryland, MSDE has some more, youknow, kind of easier to read resources than just that really dense booklet that parents are givenbefore the meeting.
56:40
Wow, I think we just scratched the surface. I think that is probably leaves more questions. But I think that's a great kickoff to what parents and professionals can kind of expect when startingthis journey. As we wind our conversation down, I have just a couple of fast questions to ask,Do you have a favorite productivity tool or resource tool that you suggest for parents aresomething that you're loving, in a professional manner? These days?

In regards to in regards to to what area for example, like,
57:21
just in terms of helping parents special education, anything? I'm always curious, if there'ssomething
57:26
I'm not gonna, I'm not going to promote our, you know, rich wine belts, you know, I'd love topromote rich white belts, you know, with its, you know, which is, you know, the advocacycourse, because our group does offer a course, in becoming an advocate, you know, it's, it's acredit, of course, I, the more you know, the better. And I think I mean, okay, what do you haveto say this without saying, you know, come use one of our groups, like, it's hard to, to notpromote yourself, and I don't want to promote ourselves? Because it's not the purpose. So Brian, you have to cut that whole part out. I'm just trying to, I'm like, brain dumping in my you know. I mean, rights law is fine, but it's not doesn't dive in. I mean, I go to organizations basedon the disability like the International Dyslexia Association, or the Autism Society, I mean, I goto I go to the source. And I go to evidence based articles, like, you know, peer reviewed articles for research. I don't, you know, I mean, I don't know what you use, but that's, you know, I go tothe research, I find the research. Yeah. What about? I don't know if that's the answer you're looking for,
58:44
or I was just, I was just curious. I got a couple more. How's that? Yeah, I mean, should I have? Alright, so as we're winding down, what should I have asked you that I didn't know enough toask.
58:57
What's in an IEP? What's the purpose of an IEP versus a section 504? Plan? Why would a parentor why would a school team feel that one is required over the other? I think that would be animportant question, because we talked about these initial meetings, but not what the outcomesof the meetings are.
59:22
Yeah, so let's ask about that real quick. And we'll weave that in in terms of, we kind of went down just the IEP screening, but what would be the benefit of an IEP versus a 504?
59:33

Right, and this is where I have that graphic. I can I can, I can send you so and I'm just pulling itup so I when I speak I can make sure that I'm hitting on the same exact point. So when you get it it will align Here we go. So So, there are some different I mean, there are major difference.There are differences between an IEP and a section 504 plan. And the IEP in order to be found eligible for an IEP, the education must be what's called adversely affected by an educationaldisability. And there are 13 categories of educational disabilities. With a section 504 plan. The eligibility is a student must have a disability that and I'm quoting substantially limits one ormore of a major life activity. And that could be learning attention and concentrating on the IEPis a legally mandated process with with a timeline and has required components required IEPteam members, which include parents, whereas section 504 plan has no federal timeline orplan, no mandated members, except those qualified to interpret the assessments and believe itor not, no mandated parent involvement. An IEP is where you'll find annual goals for your childin order to access the you know, to close the gap between what their ability is to their currentachievement. So of goal could be in an academic area, a goal could be with self regulation,organization, including time management, a goal could be social skills, beginning maintainingending a conversation, reading nonverbal cues, etc. An IEP also would include accommodations, extended time, preferential seating, using speech to text. And as an IEP has a whole transition section, it talks about extended school year, and you have to review it atleast once a year, it's an annual review. At minimum, it's also required to have progress monitoring. So at the end of every quarter, as deemed by the IEP itself, you will get progressnotes on your child's progress towards those annual goals. A section 504 plan will provide this,you know, can provide the supplementary aids and services and the accommodation such asthe, like I said, extended time preferential seedings speech to text, but and most people don'tknow this, it can include goals, minute sorry, but it can include services. But there are no annual goals in a section 504 plan, where there are in an IEP, so it's a tighter legal document.And so there is that major difference. But again, most people don't don't know that the section504 plan can include reading interventions, it can include working with the counselor. The IEP also includes those pieces. A section 504 plan does not have any legal requirement to bereviewed every year the way that an IEP does. An IEP ends at high school graduation or at age
21. students with IEPs can receive special education until they're 21. Believe it or not a section 504 plan can be implemented at any age, which does include College. Section 504 plan if you have any. If your child, if your school's not implementing the section 504 plan, I actually had aphone call today, that parent called me and they said you know, their child's high school didn'teven know their daughter had a section 504 plan. And so I know, right, it's it's December, andso she can file a complaint with the Office of Civil Rights. And there are also dispute resolutionoptions for an IEP and, you know, again, there are state complaints, there's mediation, andthere's due process on both the section 504 and and IEPs. So that's, you know, those are bigdifferences and the goals on an IEP really they are supposed to be measurable specific, theiracademic and functional. So life skills, you know, learning for independence going to thegrocery store, I mean it functional life skills are part or can be part of an IEP or are part of anIEP if the student wants
1:04:36
that. What would it be and why if I could have a billboard with one tip for parents.
1:04:47
One tip for parents the more you know, I mean, I'm going back to like isn't one tip for parents

pp y,,gg ppor be aware of how you Your child is doing both academically, but also their mental health andthe social emotional piece. Even if they're doing well academically, what kind of toll is it takingon their stress level? Yeah, the end all be all is not taking, you know, 15 AP classes in college,there's a college and not a college for every student. I mean, not every student is going into college. And that's, there's, I would say there's a P for every pod, right? There's your child's asan individual. So, you know, I would, I would say, be aware of those pieces, but also ask a lot of questions. It's okay to ask question your teachers approachable. Don't be afraid to pick up thephone and call your teacher or send an email and set up a conference. The big tip I have is thewritten communication is that if you do have a conversation with the school, if they call youafter, you know, first say, Oh, my God is my child's okay. You know, and they want to talk toyou, it's okay to say, Can I call you back so you have time to prepare and get your thoughtstogether about why they're calling? It's really important to summarize the conversation andsend it back to the school to make sure you're on the same page. But having open communication with the school is key. They can't read your mind and you can't read theirs. Excellent.
1:06:19
Excellent. Well, I appreciate your time. And just all of the goodness, like I said, I think we really truly just only scratched the surface. But at least opening the door and starting the process forparents to be more empowered on their journey through special education. So thank you very much for joining us. All right. I'm just going to take a little screenshot of that. Okay.
1:06:47
Yeah, wait. I know that like it diverted a little bit from the questions that