All right.

When I was thinking of how to pick the next subjects for an episode, this one

was just something that was real in real time with a lot of my clients.

And it's a big question of how do I make sure I hire the right divorce attorney?

And it usually starts with asking friends and family.

but here's the first mistake that I see a lot of people making.

They ask social media.

For recommendations on their divorce.

They literally type into some group, community chat room or

Facebook page, and they say, who knows A good divorce attorney.

And then you get the spectrum of people responding.

Now, what people need to remember when they post something so broad like that.

Like, does anybody have a good divorce attorney?

Anybody recommend?

Anybody?

Good.

What ends up happening is you have high conflict people answering that question.

You have people that had amicable divorces answering that question.

You have people that use their brother answering that question, and so you're

really not filtering who you should be.

In posting a question like that.

Not to mention, here's just my own 2 cents when I see someone post that

question is, are you just wanting empathy?

Are you just wanting to be seen?

Are you just wanting the whole community to know your shit?

Because most of us that go through divorce, we're not out there to

like put a poster out to saying, Hey, my life's about ready to turn

into complete ship firestorm, and I want the whole world to know.

Most people are kind of private about their divorce, so I always kind of like

half gag in my mouth when I see someone post that question, or my favorite is

when they say, asking for a friend.

Okay.

Well, we also know that you put all of your drama on social media too, so

you're probably asking for yourself.

But this is a big problem when we're using social media for our recommendations

when we don't know exactly who's in the comment section, giving us their answers.

So it's really hard for me to say that that was a good choice for you,

that that's where you're taking all of your intel is from social media.

So please.

Avoid doing that.

Okay?

We're not going to social media for our recommendations.

Mistake number two that I see a lot of people hiring kind of piggybacks

off of that is hiring the same attorney that their friend used.

Right.

Their friend went through a divorce and outta nowhere, you're going

through a divorce and you're like, Hey, did you like your attorney?

Sure.

I loved my attorney.

My attorney was so good, kept the cost down and got me divorced really fast.

I hear that not knowing anything about divorce, and I'm like, perfect.

I wanna hire that person.

That couldn't be a wrong choice.

Even louder probably than the social media post, because again,

did your friend have the same kind of divorce that you're gonna have?

Is that attorney a good fit for you and your case?

Your case may look completely different than your friend, and

I know what somebody's thinking.

Yeah, but we have the same age children.

we're in the same community.

it'll work.

No, it won't because unless.

You and your best friend have the same jobs, the same personality,

the same financial background.

Oh, and your exes have the same similar jobs, the same financial

background, and the same personalities.

This will not work.

And then now your friend is like, well, why don't you like my attorney?

My attorney worked well for me.

And then now you're starting to feel like the problem because your

case isn't going well, and her case went really well, so please.

Do not use the same attorney your friend recommended or your brother

recommended, or a coworker recommended until you do due diligence.

We're gonna get into at the end of this episode, I'm gonna give you some questions

that you should be asking these attorneys.

So stay tuned till the end, 'cause I'm gonna drop some really good

questions to get a really good conversation going back and forth.

But it's best to choose an attorney for your type of situation you're looking for.

Experience in custody disputes and high conflict.

Most likely, if you're following me, that's the kind of attorney you're gonna

be needing and that might not be your best friend's attorney number three.

Hiring an attorney who doesn't specialize just in family law.

Now, if you're in a small town like I was, a lot of attorneys dabble in civil

stuff and a little bit of criminal and family and estates and, medical and

they're a lawyer in a lot of things.

They didn't just zero in on family law.

Now.

I have a problem with this because I want somebody to have gone to school

for family law and really honed in on it and knows everything they possibly

can because, oh, I don't know, my future fucking depends on their knowledge base.

Are they able to articulate and bring up case law and know exactly

what they're talking about?

Family law.

During my case time, I don't want somebody that's gonna know, they

know wills in the back of their mind.

they have states memorized, they know criminal statutes.

Family law is something they just dabble in.

That's not this, that is not my type of lawyer that I want in my case.

So if you're in a small town and you have that attorney that's wanting

to, participate in three different avenues, that might not be a good fit.

You might wanna go to a bigger city and pull somebody in that

just specializes in family law.

Now how do I know this?

My very first attorney, you guys, and I'm telling on myself

here, was an estate attorney.

I knew him.

He was one of my classmates.

Fathers and I thought, he'll help me out.

He'll keep the cost down.

I went to him.

He's like, oh yeah, I've helped with a lot of divorces, but I do estates,

but I help with a lot of divorces.

This will be over in six weeks.

Okay.

Years later, hundreds of thousand dollars more attorneys, he was not

the best guy to start my case off.

He had me agree to 50 50 right from the get-go, so I would look good.

He knew nothing about family law and so I again used a recommendation from

a friend, thought I could cut corners.

'cause I knew nothing about divorce.

I was not educated about it.

I chose wrong.

And learn from that mistake.

Number four, this is a really big problem is that you only interview one attorney.

You think because you walk in like me on my second attorney, I walked

in marble floors, countertops, dove chocolates in the bathroom.

It was so beautiful.

Front desk person, paralegal over here.

I got escorted to her office.

Her office was just beautiful and she had these huge high heels.

Shoulder pads.

monogrammed folders, and I'm like, well, this is way better than the

back office I was in with the estate guy that had folders everywhere,

and he was a one man show.

So I got bamboozled by appearance and just this, one attorney.

I, I interviewed just her hook, line and sinker.

She told me I had a slam dunk of a case.

We'd be in and out of there.

Yes, the first attorney that I had screwed a lot of things up, but

she could fix it, fix it, fix it.

Spoiler alert.

She didn't, but I only interviewed one attorney, and I see people do this all

the time, partly because they only have money to consult with one attorney.

They don't have 2 50, 3 50 to do it three or four times.

But I'm gonna tell you this, you spending that 2 50, 3 50, 2 50 on three

different attorneys to get input and figure out which out of the three is

best, you are money ahead versus if you go to that one attorney, interview

that one attorney and pick them, and they're not the best fit for your case.

So your best bet is to interview at least two or three to compare their

approaches, especially to custody, especially if you've been following me

long enough that you know that you're gonna take in your drafted parenting

plan to that very first consultation and put it on the table and say, Hey.

This is my idea.

This is how smart I am.

This is how well versed I am.

This is how educated I am about what I'm getting, which I know at the end

of this divorce with children, I'm gonna end up with this said parenting

plan that's right here on this table.

So if I'm bringing this to the table already, what can you bring to the table

and then you let them speak, right?

And so when you only hire one attorney.

That can really fail you later when you're like, oh, well I didn't know

this attorney was gonna push this and I didn't know this attorney was that.

These are the kind of things that, the interview questions are really important,

but you have to be able to compare.

Again, I got bamboozled by the appearance because what I come from was

literally a closet full of file folders.

garbage hadn't been taken out.

there was a couple lamps that didn't work and I was just like, ugh.

You know, and I picked wrong the first time.

So when I walked into her office a year later, I'm like.

Oh my gosh, this is so much better.

Aesthetically, she's gotta know what she's doing.

She wasn't a good fit for my case either, but I had nothing to compare it to.

Number five, and again, we're going through six, and then we're gonna

have those questions at the end that you should be asking your attorney.

So hiring based on personality versus strategy.

I have a lot of you going into this very first consultation with

your attorney, and you're in your feels, you're in your emotions.

you're triggered, you're bothered, you're like upset.

You're worried about your kids.

You're worried about your future.

You're worried about your finances.

You're worried about whether you're gonna get abused or not.

And so when you walk in and you feel this big comfort level of like, oh, I

get along so well with this attorney, this attorney made me feel safe.

This attorney was really nice.

This attorney made me feel really comfortable.

That's great for you.

I love that for you.

But a divorce coach and a therapist can make you feel that exact same way.

What you need is somebody in your case that can strategically beat the other

opponent, your ex and their attorney.

So while you're picking somebody that fits great for your personality.

Guess what?

You also need somebody that's gonna be a shark or a go-getter, or a really

good negotiator, or a really good court appearance, or a really good

litigator against your ex's counsel.

So while it's great that you feel comfortable, maybe your ex will feel

extra comfortable with that person.

Now, there's a lot of strategy and thought here of like, do I get a male?

Do I get a female?

What I'm wanting you to really focus on in all of what I do with high conflict is

I, want you to have a good relationship.

It doesn't have to be nice.

This is a business deal.

By the way, this is not your friend.

This is not your, bestie.

This is not your therapist.

This is your fucking attorney, okay?

You don't have to be best friends.

My final attorney, who I had in my later years of my divorce, 'cause again,

my divorce took, you know, forever.

she was a go-getter and her and I did not mix a lot of times.

We were too much alike.

We were both headstrong females.

We were both just like in your face.

We were both very mouthy.

We were both very witty and so we tangled a lot.

What was beneficial to me by picking her was she also tangled a lot with my ex and

his attorneys, and then when he started representing himself, then it was just

like, sit back and get the popcorn because it was a shit show and it was fun to watch

because she was so aggressive and mean and just right to the point and was so quick.

Like I was where her and I were not besties getting along, but her

and my ex, who that was a battle to watch and she could get him.

Frustrated.

So even though her and I were not like, we were never gonna

fucking have a coffee after this.

All right?

We were never gonna be Facebook friends.

That's fine.

I hired her to do a job and she did said job, and I didn't like her a lot

of the time, but she was perfect from my case, not for me I respected her.

I, absolutely respected her, but I didn't like her.

She got shit done and she was not an organized attorney, but I was organized

so I didn't have to find somebody that was, oh my gosh, like she has everything

in binders and it's color coded.

That's not what my case needed.

My case specifically needed somebody that was a fireball in court that could

think on her feet, that could adjust, could have pivot, could just tongue

tie any motherfucker she needed to.

That's who I needed.

Where you need to know what kind of case you have.

To know what kind of attorney you need.

So I do see people in their feelings and being all upset and rightfully so.

and you're bothered and you're worried.

And then there's these attorneys that come in and make you feel all

so comfortable and taken care of, and so calm and cool, and you're like,

oh gosh, I feel so safe around you.

And then you go to your first court date and that same copacetic,

kumbaya person shows up to your court date and you're like.

Okay, but I need you to like, when do you start firing off?

When do you start getting aggressive?

When do you start saying stuff really fast?

why did you let that happen?

Why didn't you butt in?

Why didn't you say what I needed you to say?

And that person that you hired is also the person that shows up to court,

and that might not be what you need.

Okay?

Not saying that personality type is wrong, but it might be wrong for your case.

So be mindful.

That you are not in your fields when you hire somebody.

I recommend if you are in your fields, hire the person that

has your best interest go with you to those consultations.

For me, that would've been my dad.

My dad could have went and been like, mm-hmm.

Nope, Nope, we're not buying this bullshit.

'cause he wasn't in his fields, he was in protective mode of

like, this is a business deal.

This is transactional.

I need to protect her.

She's too emotional.

Let's hire this person.

I went into it solo thinking I knew what I was doing and I had a lot

of shame and guilt, and I was like, oh, I'm not gonna burden anyone.

Yeah, that's not this.

this is where you have to get the right people on your team

to help you with this process.

Now the last one, and then we're gonna jump into some questions.

Number six, waiting till you're full blown in crisis to hire your attorney.

Big mistake.

You wait too long till there's deadlines or there's an emergency or shit hits

the fan, or there's abuse that happens and you're in panic mode and you're in

reaction mode and all you do is hire quickly and you don't do any of the

things that I'm coaching you to do, and then you have huge regret later.

So again, if you're listening to this and you're thinking about divorce,

first and foremost, go get an education.

Grab onto my masterclass.

Learn about divorce first, because again, like I said at the beginning, every

divorce with children will end with a parenting plan and a financial affidavit.

I'm not here to help you with your finances.

There's plenty of people online to help you with that.

I'm here to help you understand what is a parenting plan.

So that when you go in and you talk to said attorney, you know all the lingo.

You know what you're fighting for.

You know what you're going after.

You know what you want.

Right?

And so if you're going into that right at crisis, you're gonna be

spiraling, you're gonna be panicking, and they're gonna say all the right

things to you right then and there, and you're like, yes, I'll hire you.

Perfect.

Yes, you're available next Tuesday.

Awesome.

Then you get there next Tuesday and they don't represent you well because

they don't understand your type of case.

So you didn't do yourself any help, right, by doing that.

So you always wanna be ahead of the game.

So if you're getting ready to get a divorce, get an education, get some

ideas about your parenting plan, and then go interview your attorney.

So speaking of that, if any of you are new here, getting on my newsletter,

hands down, one of the best free resources in the divorce game.

What I'm doing in my newsletter is literally taking all of these podcasts

and over-delivering in the newsletter and giving you details and giving you exacts.

Hell, there's a workbook that came out recently.

I'm just giving and pouring into you.

'cause my hope is education beats the system right now as if we can

get more parents educated about what's going on in family court.

We're gonna start decreasing all the conflict and fucking save some money.

And keep money in our pockets for our future with our children.

So when you're sitting down with this attorney and you're interviewing,

I want you to make sure that you're looking for a great attorney that's

going to work with the information and strategy you bring to the table.

It shouldn't be just their strategy.

you are the one that knows your future.

You are the one that knows your kids.

You are the one that knows your ex. You're the one that should know your finances.

So if you know those things, why is the person across the table

telling you about your case?

You have to be able to bring all of that information to them in

that very first consultation so they know exactly what's the goal.

An attorney knows that, yeah, of course you want your kids, but

how much, of course an attorney knows you wanna save money.

How much.

You need to know the answers to these questions so they can help you talk

about the strategy to get there.

But you gotta at least know what the end goal is.

But so many of you walk into an attorney consultation and

you're like, I want a divorce.

Okay, well, have you thought about, no, I just want a divorce.

That's as far as I've gotten.

And I was told I was supposed to hire an attorney and that's it.

Well, then you're spending the next 45 minutes listening to their

fucking ideas about your future, your kids and your ex. But they don't

know anything about those people.

Or those thoughts.

We gotta reverse engineer this guys.

All right, so here are three questions.

Now I have seven that I'm gonna put in my newsletter, but here are just the

first three that I really want you to just write down, take them with you if

you're going into consultations here soon.

Number one, how many cases do you handle per year in family court?

And I don't know, what is a good number for you in your area of where you're at?

When they give you that number, and first off, if they don't know

that number would question that.

How many cases are you currently working on right now?

Because I wanna know where I fall.

If I'm at a big firm that has a lot of help and a lot of paralegals

and a lot of people behind the scenes, the number can be higher.

But I also don't know if I feel comfortable with that

when you're in high conflict.

I don't necessarily want the top dog in town handling my case.

Because they're hired by everybody.

But I also don't know if I want the bottom dog who doesn't know high conflict.

I probably want a middle of the road because I wanna know if I

call you on Tuesday, I'm getting a response back that week.

But if you're the top dog and you have tons of cases going on, how

often are you available to help me?

How often are you in court?

are you going to be in your inbox?

I don't know.

So I wanna know their caseload.

Am I just a tag, cow with a tag in my ear and, you're just gonna treat

me like everybody else that you have and all the cases that you have?

Or is your caseload manageable?

Right?

And how many did you have last year?

And why are you up by a hundred this year?

Are you money hungry or is there just that many more cases?

Like, explain the numbers to me.

Number two, what's your typical strategy when parenting time is contested?

And here's the deal, when you ask these questions, go silent.

Hopefully you're taking your parenting plan and you're showing

them the schedule that you want.

It might be 60 40, it might be 70 30.

Hell, it might be 50 50, but there's gonna be my ex on the other side of

that saying, I want 70 30, I want 60 40.

I want all of it.

Hell, there's delusional people that think they deserve a hundred percent visitation.

So what is your attorney's strategy when it comes to parenting time?

Like how are they gonna go after that?

What are the things they're gonna recommend?

Again, silence.

Let them speak because hopefully they've had a case already where

visitation time's been contested.

What do they do with that?

How have they won some cases?

And here's the other little thing I'll just throw out there.

If your attorney can't say what they struggle with or something they've

done wrong, and I think this should be one of the seven questions.

What are you good at and what are you bad at?

And when they say, oh, you know, I, I do everything pretty well, bullshit.

We have weaknesses as every individual has.

Some of 'em are good at court and some of 'em are horrible at organization.

Some of 'em are great at helping you in mediation and some of 'em are silent

during mediation and don't say anything.

What are you good at?

Are you good at paperwork?

Are you good at working with the other attorney?

Are you performative in court?

But what are you bad at?

I need to know this because maybe I'm good at that.

Like my last attorney, Helen, was.

A shark.

She was fun to watch, but the bitch was unorganized as unorganized could be.

She had legal pad after legal pad, after legal pad after a box, and it shuffled and

nothing was where it was supposed to be.

But I had binders that were color coded and organized, so we

worked well together that way.

Right?

So think about that.

What's their strategy?

What do they do?

What are they bad at?

Number three, how do you structure parenting plans to reduce conflict?

I wanna know what does their parenting plan look like?

And I'm just gonna let the cut outta the bag.

All of you attorneys that are listening to this, I know you all use a template.

You're not custom building this shit from sentence by sentence,

scratch from the beginning.

Now you're, you're adding hopefully some custom work into that.

But a lot of you use these standard basic judge has approved for years.

So just keep it going.

Why, why change it?

I'll tell you why you change it.

'cause the standard fucking plans aren't working for people.

That's why they're coming back for modifications.

That's why they're back in court.

That's why people are offering people, that's why people are arguing.

That's why kids are paying the price.

That's why all this shit is happening is because your parenting plans suck

and nobody's fucking enforcing anything.

That's why because of these standard plans are fucking asinine and they're

wrote as if two people are from the 1950s and still live by each other

and are still best friends and they're divorce, nobody's getting along anymore.

So account for it.

Make strict fucking policies and guidelines in these parenting plans.

It's fucking simple.

You know, why know?

It's simple.

'cause I've created it.

Strict times.

This is what time you come back.

This is what time you return the children.

This is where you return the children.

This is how you drive there.

Simple.

But these standard, vague fucking plans allude to, well, I don't know.

It just says the day.

It doesn't say what time.

So ask your, returning these questions, what does your parenting plan look

like that your office pushes out?

I wanna see it.

I have one right here that I'm gonna show you, but I wanna see what you push out.

These are the kind of questions, not this like, do you think you can win my case?

They don't fucking know if they can win your case.

You guys, they have no fucking clue.

You know why?

'cause they don't know who you're divorcing yet, and they don't

know who the opposing counsel is.

So any attorney that tells you sitting across from a table, I can win your case.

I can get you child support, I can get your children is blowing smoke up

your ass and only wants your money.

They don't know your case yet.

This is a fucking consultation.

That's all this is.

They're trying to get you as a client because they want

that two to $20,000 retainer.

They wanna onboard you.

You have to make sure that you know what the fuck you're talking about

before you sit in that consultation.

That's what's so important.

So I'm gonna dump all seven questions.

Inside of the newsletter that goes out with this podcast, we roll out a

podcast every Tuesday and Thursday, but my hope is, is that you really

think about the steps that it takes to hire a really good attorney.

Get your ass off of social media.

Quit asking your friends.

Make sure they're in family law only.

Make sure you interview more than one person.

Make sure you're not like in love with this lawyer, but

they're a good fit for your case.

Right?

And the last one, just make sure that you hire as soon as you can.

All right?

Make it make sense.

Don't wait till pressure cooker situation and think you're gonna be

able to pull yourself out of that one.

All right?

So there's gonna be an episode that's gonna come out later that's gonna be the

10 signs you hired the wrong attorney.

So pay attention when that one drops as well.