Simon Dell (00:05)
So, welcome to another of the SEMO marketing podcasts. I am in the back of a shop here, and that is really, really kind of suitable for the man that we have on the show today. Very quickly before we get started, my name is Simon Dell. I run a business called SEMO. We're Australia's largest fractional marketing network. If you want to find out more about us, www.simo.com. We essentially match people who have marketing issues.

We match them with the right people or solutions. So we're not an agency. we're a fractional marketing network, which is kind of my wanky term for not saying an agency. But with all that out of the way, if you do like this, you do enjoy the today's show, please rate us and review us wherever you watch this. that would be super helpful. but enough of that. we're talking to a gentleman today, Dean Salakis. so welcome, first of all, welcome to the show.

Dean Salakas (01:00)
Good day, Simon. How are you?

Simon Dell (01:01)
Very well indeed.

Dean is a retail guru. That's probably the best two words that we could use to describe him. But Dean, give us a bit of a give us the the the sort of you know, the three minute overview of your career because it's it's been very interesting and I think there's obviously a lot that we can learn from you today.

Dean Salakas (01:23)
Yeah, Greetal Guru is very generous. I I'm not sure

Simon Dell (01:25)
you know?

Dean Salakas (01:25)
about that, but three minutes geez, I don't even do that. How am I gonna do it in

Simon Dell (01:31)
I I always say to people, Dean, they gotta do it like it

Dean Salakas (01:33)
three minutes?

Simon Dell (01:34)
you you we gotta do it like it's like a film trailer, right? So you take all the best

Dean Salakas (01:37)
Yeah.

Simon Dell (01:38)
bits, all the explosions and the sex scenes and shove it in three minutes.

Dean Salakas (01:41)
All right, we'll see what we can do. I guess, yeah,

just a the the I'll try for three minutes. I'll look at the bottom corner and see if I can keep it there. But yeah, so I guess I started my career out at I had a family business. My mom started the party people, which was a party suppliers retailer, selling balloons, decorations, costumes. She actually started as a clown and then she developed it into a a biz a retail business. that's a whole story in itself.

Simon Dell (02:07)
Mate, th was

gonna say there is so much to digest on that one. There's a lot to run back.

Dean Salakas (02:09)
There's a lot to there's a lot to unpack there actually, but we'll just you gave me three minutes, so I'm gonna keep moving.

as a kid, four years old, I'd work in the family business, you know, packing packing stuff and doing things and just helping around the shop. But as I grew up, got a license, I'd do deliveries and all sorts of stuff. So kind of had my career in retail from the very beginning and went to university. while I was working in the family business.

Did a university project where I was looking at the marketing and launched the business online with sorry, backtrack a little bit. While in high school, I launched a business online in 1999, became Australia's first retailer to offer click and collect. in 2003, I was doing a uni project, discovered this thing called Google Ads, which was coming to Australia, Google AdWords, and launched on there and I became Google AdWords first advertiser and I was paying one cent a click. There's a lot to unpack here, but we'll just keep moving.

Simon Dell (03:07)
Wow. Yeah

yeah. God, yeah. So many questions

Dean Salakas (03:10)
and

Simon Dell (03:11)
I need to follow up on here. But go on, yeah, keep going.

Dean Salakas (03:13)
Yeah,

there's a few things there. and yeah, and I built that business. I actually went on to work at Woolies and I was still working in the family business part time. So I went to head office and I was a business analyst and there's a lot of time packed there as well. Won an innovation award there and did some fun stuff and sat on new line committees and got to report to the board stupid things they do. And and then I had an opportunity. My mum wanted to exit the business, so my brother and I essentially acquired it because they had a buyer and

she didn't want to give it to us. That was just her way of making sure we didn't take things for granted. So and so yeah, we bought the business in two thousand and seven. I was still working at Woolies all the way to two thousand and nine and we were going through triple digit growth. So I decided to take the leap and jump into the business full time by two thousand and nine. And the the the business was just on a rocket ship from the beginning and and we kept that rolling and

we had ups and downs like every business owner has. So, you know, the the first few years were just we were flying and then as things got bigger it got you know, we made we made a lot of mistakes. So we we we had the roller coaster that you have when you grow a business and from good times to really bad ones. And but yeah, towards COVID and there's a whole nother thing to unpack there. We we came out of COVID very strong and made an acquisition. that acquisition someone came and acquired off us eighteen months later.

For a lot more than we paid for it. And then they wanted to buy the rest of the business, which they did in December 2024. So I took an exit from the party people in 2024. And and then I decided I wanted to go fishing every day, and that would be my life. And that didn't agree with me. So people started calling me, asking me for help with stuff and little projects, and I kept picking up sort of if you want to call it consulting gigs.

I said two things when I sold the business. I was like, I'm not gonna become a consultant and I'm not gonna do a startup. started consulting and that that that that was ha fun for a bit. And then went to one of the conferences, started a WhatsApp chat with Jethro Marks, to figure out where we're gonna go drinking one night. That chat group was a hundred people by the end of the first day, it was three hundred by the end of the conference, and now it's four thousand plus eighteen months later.

And that's become my primary focus now is continuing to build the community. So I'm still doing consulting on the side, but to be honest, I I I'm pretty selective with the work I'm taking and and I I focus on on the community because I just need to give

Simon Dell (05:47)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (05:48)
it space and air. And, you know, I've been through business a long time. Well, I've had four exits now and I know that we're we're on that rocket ship again. You know, we've we've grown really fast in 18 months, and this is a really critical phase for me to continue to

continue the momentum. and it's the hardest part to keep that momentum and and also not get lost in what you're doing. So yeah, I'm working it all out again and I'm in a start up and two things I said I wouldn't do, I'm doing both of them. So that's where I am today. I did four minutes, I was one

Simon Dell (06:17)
Yeah, well. We we all say, mate, we all say

Dean Salakas (06:20)
minute over.

Simon Dell (06:21)
No, that's cool. We we all we all say that we'll never do it again and everyone does that again 'cause it's maybe some some sort of masochist in us all that says, you know, it'll be different this time and then it never is. So, you know.

Dean Salakas (06:31)
Yeah, it never is.

Simon Dell (06:34)
look, I'm not gonna there's a thousand things to unpack there, but I wanna I wanna talk about

retail and today and you know get your your thoughts on that because you know we've got thirty minutes and whatever and and that's and that's what I wanna, you know, focus on.

Dean Salakas (06:48)
Yeah, sounds good.

Simon Dell (06:49)
and look there's a there's a there is a there is a lot of questions. but fur the my first one was to get your thoughts on

online

the state of online at the moment because you know we're seeing you know we're seeing that take over of Amazon of of Sheen of Timu and all those kind of things but just seeing these these beasts in the marketplace in a what is a relatively small marketplace you know Australia's you know what twenty-seven twenty eight million people how do how did how does small retailers stand out in in in that kind of environment

Dean Salakas (07:25)
Yeah, I would say that's a really good question. It's it's it's not easy. And I think well, where do I go with this? I would say one mistake I see people make a lot. Let's talk about what what doesn't work so well, and that's buying customers is difficult.

Simon Dell (07:43)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (07:43)
businesses that are totally reliant on buying customers they do work, so I'm not saying it's it's a it's it's it it doesn't work. Definitely you can buy customers.

and that's through digital advertising and stuff like that. And it's it should always be part of your mix 100%. but where you wanna get to with growing a business is you you to stand like you wanna, you know, you wanna have an amazing product. And by an amazing product, I mean you wanna solve a customer problem better than anyone else.

Simon Dell (08:10)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (08:11)
and there's a very big distinction there. and that's probably number one thing. I mean, you could you could argue retail is really simple. You gotta have a great product.

That solves a problem and you've got to make sure everyone knows about it. And you can't have one without the other. You can't like I see so many businesses that are amazing at what they do, but nobody knows about them. And it's not enough to be amazing. You've got to make sure people know about you. So to stand out, you know, the answer to that question is funny because I would say every business I've built, I've had four exits now, and each time the strategy's been slightly different. well not slightly, it's been quite different. but I've always made a lot of noise.

And I think you've got to make noise about what you do. The the big thing I said was you, you know, people introduce themselves. You say, What do you do? And they're like, I'm just whatever. And you're like, there's a mistake right there. Like I'm just like when people ask me, Dean, what do you do? I'm like, hey guys, I'm the chief party dude. We're Australia's largest party store, we're the biggest and the best. you know, we help people make have the parties they dream about. Like I just come straight out, right?

Simon Dell (09:11)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Dean Salakas (09:13)
And you know, and I think it's important that you need to s you know, scream from the rooftops what you do, be proud of it. And that's I think you just gotta make a lot of noise about what you're doing with it. It's media, PR, you know, I think that's the key thing is just making noise.

Simon Dell (09:28)
It's it's I I hear that that problem.

so many times a and not just in retail, right? I get people that coming to me you know, B2B software developers, right? And, you know, they've got a good team, they've got a smart team, they've got smart people, they've got a good product. And they all sit there and just we we don't know how to tell people about what it is that we do. and you know, and I think retail's probably a little bit easier in some sense about making a noise.

Dean Salakas (09:56)
Praise.

Simon Dell (09:56)
I think there's lots of things you can do. If if you're a if you're a B to B software developer, it's it's so hard to sort of

Dean Salakas (10:02)
Mm-hmm.

Simon Dell (10:03)
you know

I I always say to them it's like y you need to find someone to stand on top of the building and shout across the roofs about how how good you are. and and

Dean Salakas (10:08)
That's right. Yeah, you do.

Simon Dell (10:12)
you know, I think that's i in B to B and those sort of more drier spaces, that's symptomatic of the people that are running the business are good at what they they do.

Right, but they're good at software development. That's why they started a software

Dean Salakas (10:25)
Yeah, yeah.

Simon Dell (10:26)
development business. But I I think if you're in retail, I think I shared the wrong link so people are people are accidentally joining the wrong the the the wrong chat. But I think if you're in retail, you have to be a a marketer too.

I think

Dean Salakas (10:42)
You do, you do.

Simon Dell (10:43)
you I think that to a degree is part and parcel of of being a retailer. Yeah.

Dean Salakas (10:46)
Probably the easiest way to put it would be we're all in sales, everyone. When you're running

a business, you're in sales.

Simon Dell (10:51)
Yeah, you've got you've got be able to i what was I watching the other day? something that somebody was talking about how when you're in this kind of business, it's there's a lot to do with charisma. And it's interesting what you know, talking to you and seeing you talk. I charisma is such an important part of retail. And I think I I think it's and it's interesting Okay, well that's that's I was gonna say, yeah, that's yeah, go on.

Dean Salakas (11:12)
Yeah, I I'm not sure I call it charisma too. I mean you you see it as charisma. Let's unpack that. I mean you see it as

charisma. I just I I I just like being real with people and trying to help. That's it's that simple. Like I just love helping people. I just want to try my best to help people and like I get up on stage and I speak a lot and and for those people that are listening that have heard me speak, they'll tell you that I'm not the most polished speaker. I don't get up there, I don't walk up and down the stage. I'm

For all intensive purposes, I would probably say I'm in terms of that the craft of speaking, probably average, you know.

Simon Dell (11:49)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (11:52)
but I get up there and I guess I think about my audience and I just want to make sure they get heaps of value. And so people come

Simon Dell (11:59)
Mm.

Dean Salakas (11:59)
away from my talks. They don't say, You're an amazing speaker. They go, that helped, or that was great, or I really learned something here. That's what I get. That's the feedback I get. Like

Simon Dell (12:05)
Mm. Mm. Yeah.

Dean Salakas (12:09)
People

do say to me, like I said over, what do you think of those speaking? And they'll like, Yeah, you're you're okay as a speaker, but the the content was awesome or the

Simon Dell (12:15)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (12:16)
you know, or I took this t this one takeaway that I just you know, people come to me five years after I've s you know, they've heard me speak and say, you still use that concept today or whatever. So, you know, I guess you see it as charisma, but I guess I just see it as trying to help and trying to

Simon Dell (12:31)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (12:31)
do good in the world, you know?

Simon Dell (12:32)
Yeah, I d I it was I watched a video the other day and the guy was mentioning that word charisma and and I think you know, I w there's no we're not getting a long argument about it now, but I felt that was an appropriate word because it combined knowledge, passion

enthusiasm, all those kind of things. If someone's charismatic, they tend to be a lot of the they have a lot of those traits.

Dean Salakas (12:54)
That makes sense. Yeah, yeah.

Simon Dell (12:56)
and I and I think whether it's you personally or whether it's your brand has charisma, you know, I think that to me feels like a you know something that I think is important for for retailers. How how important taking taking the next step from that

We still often we talk in, you know, retail about that that retail experience about how once you step into a store, step through the doors, how important is that? You know, talk to me about what that was like with the the party people. What you know, people were walking in the doors, w what what were they what were they hit with?

Dean Salakas (13:33)
Yeah, I mean people that walked into the party, people the first thing people were like and I mean I had this almost every time. People would walk in and be like, Wow, this place is massive. You know?

Simon Dell (13:44)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (13:45)
And you know, you'd walk into my store, there'd be balloons everywhere, it's decorations, it's packed to the roof with product, it's displays

Simon Dell (13:52)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (13:53)
everywhere. Like, I mean, we're talking you walk into my store and it was s eight meters through the roof or whatever, but you had just stuffed

in there everywhere.

Simon Dell (14:02)
Everyone.

Dean Salakas (14:03)
And it just was like, I mean, we're a party store, so we could be a little messier, but make it really sort of visually appealing when you walked in. So people just came in and had that wow factor from the get-go. And that that was great because people just come in straight away. They're you know, you know, people

Simon Dell (14:20)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (14:20)
judge you on your first five seconds like a person. The store's the same, they judge you as soon as they walk in and they walk in and they're like, holy moly, this is amazing.

Simon Dell (14:28)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (14:29)
Where's the where's the back of the store? They can't even see it. You know, that experience is just the great way to start for a customer.

Simon Dell (14:35)
How who else

do you think's doing that well out there then from an experience perspective? What

Dean Salakas (14:38)
You know, I mean all these

large format stores, some of them are doing great. Like you you feel that when you walk into like a Mecca, they do it great.

Simon Dell (14:44)
Mm.

Dean Salakas (14:45)
you know, there's definitely a few guys that do it that create that wow factor. You've got like, you know, culture kings, you know, do it well.

Simon Dell (14:54)
Yeah, yeah.

Dean Salakas (14:56)
so yeah, some of these brands are doing it great. JD Sports, I did a store walk with them, that's great. You walk in there, you just feel the vibe straight away. you get that from the staff, you get that from the

way the merchandising's done, you get that from the visuals. They've got all this, you know,

Simon Dell (15:10)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (15:10)
fun video going on in the store. So yeah, I think there's a few people doing it really, really well and just they hit you

Simon Dell (15:15)
I

Dean Salakas (15:15)
when you walk in.

Simon Dell (15:16)
th there's obviously and we're not gonna we won't mention names because you know, because you you wanna obviously carry on working in this industry. but

Dean Salakas (15:23)
Yeah.

Simon Dell (15:24)
but there's obviously a few people that are not doing it well and you know, we've seen that

We've seen that slew of businesses failing in Australia over the last almost almost with regularity, I think. Every year there's some there's some big names go. Do you think that that's that's largely down to the fact that that that experience, they've left that experience behind and just become a bit formulaic or they've got staff that don't care or the product hasn't been refreshed. Is that do you think that do you see a trend there in in those businesses failing?

Dean Salakas (15:57)
Look,

definitely I would say on the face of it, you you you see the experience has deteriorated and that's and often people say, the problem was the experience was crap. You look at barbecues of gallor, Lincraft, these guys, people going, Well, they they lost their way when it came to experience. I I think the easy thing to do is just profess to know the answer. Like I businesses are are complex and hard. Like, I mean, as a business owner,

Every day people are coming to going, you could do this so much better, or you did you you know, have you had this idea or whatever? Like it's easy from the outside to have an opinion. I would say being internal is a bit harder. And the reason I say these, I think some of these big failures, there's much more to the story than just the experience being terrible. There was something that started it, like Barbecue's galore is a great example where, you know, as I understand it, they were pretty constrained, cash wise and capital wise. And the first thing to go was

these loyalty programs and experience stuff and the in store the sexy stuff that made them great. And that was a spiral downwards for them. But it wasn't the first thing that was the problem. There were other, there were other problems before the experience fell away. but

Simon Dell (17:00)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (17:01)
a hundred percent I mean like we say we say experience. I think the bigger problem and I and I and I have this conversation with a lot of entrepreneurs and and business owners and even large enterprises. I asked them, you know, what

What problem do we solve for the customer? I think it's

Simon Dell (17:16)
Mm.

Dean Salakas (17:17)
got to start there. Like what problem do you solve?

Simon Dell (17:19)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (17:19)
Like my party store, the the the thing that differentiated me from everyone. Everyone thought they were in the business of selling party products. I looked at it that I was in the business of helping people have parties. And it seems like a

Simon Dell (17:29)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dean Salakas (17:30)
tiny distinction. It seems like semantics, but it's not.

Simon Dell (17:32)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (17:33)
It makes

The biggest difference when you start thinking about strategy and things you do. Do you offer services that don't make any money? Yeah, you do because that's about helping people have parties. Do you do this? Do you do that for the customer? Anything that's about helping them have a party, you do it because that's on mission and it's on brand.

Simon Dell (17:49)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (17:49)
a business that just tries to sell products and we won't go into where my business is right now, but that's their focus right now and it's not how I see the right strategy.

Simon Dell (17:57)
If y if you were starting the party people today in twenty twenty six, what would you do differently?

Dean Salakas (18:02)
What would I do differently? look, I think I'd open more stores, but I was always on that mission, to be honest. I just I I probably would have raised capital. I think one thing I was always shy of was with letting someone in and having a business partner

Simon Dell (18:15)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dean Salakas (18:17)
to accelerate the growth. I I think that's probably the main thing if I was to look back, is just l letting someone in, especially when you're on the rocket ship. I think that the the thing is people ask for money when

Things are bad. You need to ask for money when things are really, really good. because you're

Simon Dell (18:32)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (18:35)
selling them that dream and you're on the rocket ship and they want to come on the rocket ship. They don't want to come on board when things are plateaued and you're just a good business. Like it was really hard to

Simon Dell (18:42)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (18:43)
try to raise when you're just a good business.

Simon Dell (18:46)
Look, obviously, you know, we can't have these conversations without mentioning, you know, AI and artificial intelligence and how that's how that's impacting. What do you see what do you see the the trends out there? I mean, like are are there a lot of retailers using it? Are is there still low levels of adoption? What what what what do you see happening in that space?

Dean Salakas (19:07)
There's the full

spectrum going on at the moment, but definitely things are moving f faster than ever in my time as a retailer.

Simon Dell (19:14)
Mm.

Dean Salakas (19:15)
Like things are moving so fast and there's such a big gap between the guys that are using AI. There's there's guys in the retail community that are using AI that half the stuff they talk about I don't understand anymore. And there's other people that are just using Chat GPT, you know. I mean, I had coffee with someone yesterday that's not even using that, but like

You've got such a broad spectrum of of of people adoption. yeah, it's all over the place to answer your question. It's all over

Simon Dell (19:45)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (19:45)
the place. I I think I think the one thing if I was to put people's mind at ease, because everyone's probably anxious about they know AI can do so much, but they they probably not using it to its potential. That's that's the majority of people. And that's probably almost everyone. But you know, no one's an expert, I think is the best way to put it. So

Simon Dell (20:03)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (20:04)
You know, when people think, I don't know enough, well nobody nobody is the expert at the moment. Everyone's learning 'cause it's just evo it's a it's it's a changing day by day situation.

Simon Dell (20:16)
Yeah,

I mean look, I obviously, you know, as we said at the start, I'm sitting here in the back of a a retail shop. and, you know, a lot of the things that you've said so far, I'm I'm sort of nodding and going, Okay, you know, this is this is important to for for me to understand. but AI to me has been has been an extra member of staff.

you know, it it allowing Claude to have access to the back end of my Shopify site, to get it to upload orders, write descriptions, you know, put things into categories, the sort of thing that I can set it going and then walk away and have dinner with the kids and come back and it's done is to me is is revolutionary.

Dean Salakas (21:10)
It is. It's crazy.

Simon Dell (21:11)
You know.

and does it make mistakes? Absolutely. you know, it's it's written descriptions for games that we sell here that it just inferred the it inferred how the game works based on the title of the game. but it's it's about training it, it's about teaching it, it's about telling giving it boundaries and rules in which to operate. so you know, i it's it's

It's an amazing tool and I I think the main thing I worry about, bigger picture stuff, is that, you know, I have two children who are, you know, seven and ten years old and what hell what the hell the job market looks like in ten years time if they decide that they want to go into retail. You

Dean Salakas (21:55)
Yeah, yeah.

Simon Dell (21:56)
know, d what do you what do you think? What do you see that do you do you see a fundamental shift in everything by then or?

Dean Salakas (22:04)
This is this is a can of worms we could go down here. But I'll I I'll I I would

Simon Dell (22:06)
Totally, yeah.

Dean Salakas (22:07)
say like, you know, and I did a LinkedIn post yesterday on how robots are counting inventory in stores in Kmart bindings at the moment. They've got these little robots that look like a they look like your Robovac if anyone's got a Robovac and it's it's got a little poll on it, it's looking at the inventory levels on every shelf and it's doing an injury inventory count every night.

Simon Dell (22:23)
Yep. Wow.

Dean Salakas (22:26)
you know, so you've already replaced stock takers in some of these stores.

You know, I've seen overseas, I've seen robots stacking shelves. you know, so we are entering an age where, you know, AI can do almost anything a human can do. And

Simon Dell (22:45)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (22:46)
it's gonna be a real interesting future. I I would say, look, and I'm this gonna be so controversial, and everyone's got an opinion on this, but I would say I don't think AI is gonna take all our jobs. I think it will take jobs, but we will do

Simon Dell (22:59)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (23:00)
something else. Like I think of when

online came around and can when com when the in when the computers came around, when computers came around everyone went, they're gonna take all our jobs. They don't need computers

Simon Dell (23:10)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (23:10)
anymore. Like they used to we used to calculate everything manually. Now computer does it. We're all gonna lose our job. Well people found different things to do. So I think we're going through that phase now where people will

Simon Dell (23:20)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (23:20)
will do different things and the society will evolve. The challenge is that it's moving faster than it did with computers. So

Simon Dell (23:27)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (23:27)
people have people probably won't adapt as fast as then. So a lot of people are going to be

put out pretty substantially and it's gonna be a real tough time emotionally for a lot of people that their jobs no longer required because an AI can do it.

Simon Dell (23:41)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (23:42)
but I think so I think people need to be thinking about how do I where do I need to be in the next five or ten years with what I do? Where do I fit in?

Simon Dell (23:48)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (23:49)
I think that's the question you need to be asking rather than worrying too much about taking a job because jobs will be there. We'll find a way, I think, but

Simon Dell (23:56)
Yeah yeah.

Dean Salakas (23:57)
you've got to figure out where you fit, you know.

Simon Dell (23:59)
I I my my opinion again, which may seem controversial, is that you know we we well we moved sort of in the fifties and sixties, maybe the seventies to, you know, both parents working.

in society, you know, that that became the normal and I and I and I have this feeling that as AI starts swallowing up some of these jobs that, you know, we need, maybe what that will start and allow us to free us to sort of go, Well, you know, if economically we're sound enough,

Maybe we don't both we don't need both parents working anymore. Maybe we can have the father or the mother staying at home and raising families and and then families get bigger and become more important. But yeah, yeah, yeah. And I th Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Dean Salakas (24:43)
I think quality of life will improve for sure. Yeah. Computers made our lives better, I would say, not worse. And I think AI will make our lives better, not worse.

Simon Dell (24:55)
what was my my last question today was

Well

l let's let's just continue on that one for a second, 'cause cost of living impact is is is making, you know, is is causing some challenges for everybody. Do you think this this is a big call. I I hope I know the I hope you I know how you answer this. Do you think the physical store is more important today than it has ever been? Or do you is it just

Is is that are we losing that significance or you know, if someone's sitting there going, Do I do I focus on e commerce or do I you know, do I open more physical stores? It's interesting when I said to you what you would do differently from the party people and and the answer was open more physical stores. So

Dean Salakas (25:41)
Yep, yep.

Simon Dell (25:42)
I'm I'm guessing you still feel that that physical ability to walk in and interact with somebody is is still important.

Dean Salakas (25:49)
Yeah, but

let me let me unpack a few sort of reasons why. I'd say the answer is yes, first

Simon Dell (25:52)
Okay, yeah, cool.

Dean Salakas (25:53)
up. But the reasons why one, when when e-commerce was growing, like even today, if you ask the average punter who's not in retail, what percentage of business is done online versus in stores? I would say all almost all of it. It's like eighty percent online. And it's not, it's only

Simon Dell (26:07)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (26:07)
twenty percent. Only twenty percent of all retail sales are online. And that's

Simon Dell (26:10)
Okay.

Dean Salakas (26:11)
after thirty years of growth.

Right? It's growing slowly. In our lifetime, if you look at the curve of if if you and I've done it, I've got a graph in the background.

Simon Dell (26:21)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (26:21)
But you know, if you look at the adoption of AI sorry, store sales versus physical store sales versus online sales, it's creeping, right? It's creeping at less

Simon Dell (26:29)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (26:30)
than 1%, right? And in our lifetime, physical stores will be the majority of retail sales in our lifetime.

Simon Dell (26:37)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (26:37)
Based on the curve, the graph, nothing has moved the needle. People would say, we've got 5G coming, it's gonna

We're gonna have this massive leapfrog of adoption of shopping online. And we didn't. every time there's been an innovation online, the the needle hasn't moved that much. COVID was the biggest one that moved the needle. It

Simon Dell (26:53)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dean Salakas (26:56)
just went through the roof online shopping and then it came back to the to

Simon Dell (26:59)
Mm.

Dean Salakas (27:00)
the curve. So that's number one. I would say physical stores are gonna be

Where the majority of retail sales are done in the future. Now that's a generalization because some categories are 80% online and 20% in store and vice versa. So that's a that's a generalization, but that's the general thing. The other thing I would say is that you look at this this is what opened my eyes to validating it further was I went to the US and in in in March for Shop Talk, and we take Aussies to to Vegas every year for Shop Talk to you know to see the best what the best in the world are doing. And actually where I got the biggest

you know, learning was sitting at the airport. I'm sitting at the airport, there's an Amazon Go store, which is fully automated, right? You just walk in, pick up stuff and walk out. there's a self-checkout kiosk because just like think of like a bunch of fridges with a little self-checkout station and you can just grab everything out of the fridge, put it in the put it in the self-checkout station and pay and walk off. Neither

Simon Dell (27:54)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (27:55)
neither of these two concepts were busy. But you looked over at the manual store where people had to walk in and get served by by a checkout

Simon Dell (28:02)
Yeah, yeah.

Dean Salakas (28:02)
person.

And it was like buzzing, right? People in there

Simon Dell (28:05)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (28:05)
walking around. Like, as human beings, w whatever the psychology, and we don't have time to go on. But there's a psychology there that people just want to interact with people and don't

Simon Dell (28:14)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (28:15)
so so I think to me that kind of just answered it for me is that physical stores are going to be part of the mix forever. Or for our lifetime anyway, let's just say that.

Simon Dell (28:25)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (28:25)
And I think it's critically important. And I'll just leave with a third thing. Every time someone opens a store, I hear this from every retailer, I've never heard

Contrary to this. Every time they open a store in an area, let's say, so Culture Kings opened their store in in Vegas,

Simon Dell (28:40)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (28:40)
online sales in the US went through the roof.

Simon Dell (28:43)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (28:44)
You open a store in a new suburb, online sales in that area go through the roof. And and every retail I speak to validates that is what happens. So people often think if you open a store it's going to cannibalize your sales, it's completely the opposite. So I just think, yeah, moving forward, physical stores and we're and you know, I'm saying that, but you look at all the

Pure plays for the last five, ten years, they're all static to do physical plays. You've Oz Herum beauty opening stores, door beauty opening stores, you've got, you know, all these pure play businesses starting to open stores and there's

Simon Dell (29:13)
Mm. Yeah.

Dean Salakas (29:15)
a reason 'cause they've seen that trend already and they're going after it.

Simon Dell (29:17)
Look, I I I

had and I'm forgetting his name now, but he was on my podcast in the early days, the Oz Hair and Beauty.

Dean Salakas (29:24)
Guy, yeah.

Simon Dell (29:25)
got yeah, one of the well there was two of them, isn't there, two of the guy yeah. Yeah. Ant no, it was Anthony, I think.

Dean Salakas (29:27)
Yeah, it would be Guy. Anthony Anthony Anthony sits in the background. maybe.

Yeah, could

Simon Dell (29:33)
No, I

think it was Anthony actually. Yeah, you know, I think it was Anthony. it was in the thirty the thirty or forty thirties or forties the number in the number of the podcasts, because we're in something like 160 now. But it was it was back in the 30s and forties. But anyway, but that was before they they had the retail the retail play. so yeah, and I saw one of his stores open in Indrapilly, which is my local shopping centre, and I was like, you know, that was I remember that, you know, I remember having those early discussions about would you move into to retail.

And and and I think in those early days they were like, yeah, yeah, that's that's on our plan, you know, and but obviously it's become such a you know cornerstone of their their their business now. But but it's it's it's interesting. I think just the learnings, you know, for those who listening to this who don't know me, my background is marketing and and it has been for 20 years, and I opened this retail store sitting behind me about six weeks ago, and we sell we sell board games, board games, puzzles, and it's nothing in here

Nothing

in this shop with batteries, a screen, or requires a charger other than my till. All right. Everything in here is about you know using your brain, social, you know, building, you know, relationships with you know, family around the table, that kind of thing. The very traditional stuff. and and there's things in here that range from eight dollars, squishy things for kids for eight dollars up to ball games that cost $380.

And I think the most important learning that I've taken out of this in the last six weeks that has made my life so much easier. And we've talked about experience today, you've talked about really early on about what problem do you solve and things like that, right? To me, and it's lucky that I'm in this industry, but it to me it's been having people working here who are so passionate about

games and board games and all those kind of things. One of the guys who worked here owns three hundred and fifty board games. He was he

Dean Salakas (31:32)
Yeah, yeah.

Simon Dell (31:33)
was a former CEO, CTO, CEO. He's five years away from retirement and he just went, I don't want to do that anymore.

Dean Salakas (31:40)
Yeah, yeah.

Simon Dell (31:41)
he said, I wanna be I wanna sit in here eight hours a day and talk to people about board games. You know?

Dean Salakas (31:46)
Yeah, yeah.

Simon Dell (31:47)
And I think if you're if you're building a retail business and my lesson to people out there would be go and go and find people

Who work in your b to work in your business who are passionate about what you're doing. You know. And

Dean Salakas (32:00)
Hundred percent.

Simon Dell (32:01)
if you're in fashion, find someone that's passionate about fashion. If you've got, if you're hair and beauty, find people that are interested in hair and beauty, right? Because if you get those right people, it just makes your life so much easier.

Dean Salakas (32:16)
Hundred percent.

Simon Dell (32:16)
And we've been open six weeks and we've had 25-star Google reviews already.

Every single one of them, bar maybe two, has mentioned one of the staff in the review. And that speak that to me speaks volumes about them and

Dean Salakas (32:33)
Yeah, one hundred percent.

Simon Dell (32:34)
what's important to the customer when they come in here.

Dean Salakas (32:38)
Yeah, for sure. Definitely, a hundred percent. And I did the same with the party people. Like I had po

Simon Dell (32:39)
Yeah, yeah.

Dean Salakas (32:42)
people that were passionate about helping people have parties, you know.

Simon Dell (32:46)
It it d it it makes I I think a lot of people a lot of people lose sight of that and sit there and go, you know, is it better for me to employ a eighteen year old on a casual low that low base wage? Or should I get somebody that's a bit more invested in the products that I'm selling, who might be more expensive? and I think that second option sort of will pays pays massive dividends in the end.

Dean Salakas (33:15)
Yeah. I mean soon we'll give you at the crossroads of do we hire an AIR robot to sit at the checkout or do we hire that second person you mentioned that is passionate? And I'd still I'd still hire the passionate person and not and scrap the robot.

Simon Dell (33:22)
It's mate, it's interest every day.

Every day. It it's interesting you say about the that checkout thing. I I mean I

I remember going into a Uni close store, the one here in Brisbane, where they have those those dump bins where you just put your clothes in and it scans everything in it

Dean Salakas (33:38)
Yeah, yeah.

Simon Dell (33:39)
and it tells you what you gotta pay and you do that. And I was like I just and there's still there's there's two people sitting behind a till and I was like, I'd want I just wanna go over there. You know. I I

Dean Salakas (33:49)
Yeah, yeah.

Simon Dell (33:49)
I get that this might be quicker and easier and yeah, I don't know. I just it it's amazing how people wanna buy from people.

Dean Salakas (33:57)
Yeah. Even in the supermarket,

I don't know if this is not everyone's the same as this, but I know when I will go through the supermarket and I've got the self check out option and I've got a person, I'm only going self check out 'cause it's quicker. Otherwise I prefer to get served by the person.

Simon Dell (34:11)
I think for me when I'm spending when I'm doing the weekly shop and I've got to feed two boys and I'm spending two hundred, three hundred dollars, I'm going I'm going through the self checkout here because number one, I don't wanna do it. I don't wanna be putting three hundred you know, three hundred dollars worth of food through a self checkout. But you know, I wanna go through the the I mean, I wanna go through the demand checkout.

Dean Salakas (34:31)
Yeah.

Simon Dell (34:32)
you know, I think yeah, i it's it's i i the evolution of retail at the moment I think is

is fast, it is to a degree a little bit scary.

Dean Salakas (34:44)
Yeah.

Simon Dell (34:45)
but I think as you've probably seen the people that do it well are are really going to smash it out of the park.

Dean Salakas (34:54)
Yeah. I would say the people that are thinking back to that, how do I help my customer solve their problem more than anything else and just focus

Simon Dell (35:01)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (35:01)
on the customer, I think that's the key. You know, people that just think, How do I automate everything? Probably gonna make some big, big mistakes. Like I mean, if you like

Simon Dell (35:10)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (35:10)
if you automate, you know, you can get Amazon Go to run your store can your physical store can be an Amazon Go store. Not sure that's gonna work out for you very well, you know?

Simon Dell (35:18)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Dean Salakas (35:19)
so I think just being careful about cause you know, like

your brand, your emotional connection with your customer, the more you automate potenti depending on how close to the customer that is, the more you lose that connection with the customer. I mean,

Simon Dell (35:33)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (35:33)
not not not stepping on things like, you know, you've got live chat and all this sort of stuff. But the more you can have a human being involved, the the better connection you're gonna have with your customer.

Simon Dell (35:43)
And and I I'll add one other thing to that as well, is those people that you have that th that where you're trying to help those people, do it from a position from the other side of the till. Don't hide behind the till or the counter or whatever. If you get out and stand in the aisles and have conversations with people, one thing we've just noticed here is that that just people nine out of ten people want to have a chat.

You know, this

Dean Salakas (36:09)
Yeah, yeah.

Simon Dell (36:10)
whole day and age where you're sort of going, Hey, can I help you? and someone telling you to fuck off and leave me alone again, they're in a they're in a business where they genuinely want some help. But they want but I think to your point, they want help but they don't want to feel sold to.

Dean Salakas (36:25)
Yep, hundred percent.

Simon Dell (36:26)
That's probably the thing I would I would say. Help people don't sell to them.

Dean Salakas (36:30)
Help for sure. And that's the ki that's the big distinction. Help people don't sell to them. You know, if you're helping, you're solving a problem. If you're selling to them, you're selling stuff to them. And that's there's

Simon Dell (36:33)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dean Salakas (36:39)
a difference.

Simon Dell (36:40)
Yeah. Selling if you're selling you're solving your problem rather than their problem. So look,

Dean Salakas (36:43)
That's right. That's right.

Simon Dell (36:45)
last last couple of observations for you is that is there anything else that you think, you know th that you've seen out there? I mean you mentioned going to Las Vegas. I mean I'm just scribbled a note here that I need to go to Las Vegas as

Dean Salakas (36:57)
You do, you do, yeah. You need to

come with us.

Simon Dell (36:58)
And

and of course for your from your benefit, we you and I can both we can write that off as a business expense, so

Dean Salakas (37:04)
absolutely.

Absolutely. Well, I mean with Vegas, I mean the conference, depending on the business, will will fund half of it as well. So it's almost a almost a free trip to be honest. it's just time. Issues time. Issues time. So yeah.

Simon Dell (37:14)
Christ, I better get on that. Yeah. Mate, there's so

many there's so many good games expos all around the world. you know, I I've I've written them all down and I'm just going, Okay, that's where me and the kids are going on holiday next year and that's the next year after that and that's you know. I don't know whether the ATO is gonna be pleased with me trying to write my kids' flights off on as a business expense but

Well we'll see how we go with that. So mate, look, thank you for that. I think that's you know, look I'm I'm sure we could talk for a lot longer, especially about your mum being a clown.

Dean Salakas (37:48)
Yeah, yeah.

Simon Dell (37:49)
that's that's something I'm gonna say for next time because

Dean Salakas (37:53)
Clown

that decided to launch a website, so not not so silly. Yeah.

Simon Dell (37:57)
No, not so, yeah. She's a smart smart clown, man.

Smart clown. But look if anyone wants to reach out to you, what's the best way of finding you? And and tell us just maybe right at the end there, just a little bit about the 'cause the WhatsApp group seem to be exploding.

Dean Salakas (38:11)
They are, they're they're growing, which is great. And just the word of mouth passing on for that. And you're in there, which is great. I've seen you around the traps in there.

Simon Dell (38:17)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Dean Salakas (38:20)
but yeah, so I if you want to connect with me, I think LinkedIn's the best place to get me. so connect with me on LinkedIn. It's just Dean Dee my name's there, Dean Salakis. and as far as the community goes, I've got a pinned post in there you can have a look at which shows you what the community looks like and it's free for everyone.

Simon Dell (38:36)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (38:36)
So the retail community is free to be involved and

For people what what it's about, it's about connecting with other human beings in retail.

Simon Dell (38:43)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (38:45)
that's what it's all about. That's our mission, that's what

Simon Dell (38:46)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (38:47)
we'll always be about. We're about connecting people and you know, it's it's a difficult business we work in in retail. It's not easy. And the thing that I the reason I started it, I guess, or the reason I grew it, is because every time I went to a conference I just felt like I was catching up with family and these people get me. And you know, I just wanted to have a place where we could have those conversations.

we didn't have to wait for a conference to have those conversations. A place where

Simon Dell (39:10)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dean Salakas (39:11)
you could ask questions to our peers, get advice, you know, reach out for help, tell when you're having bad times and anyone got any anyone can help you out. There's plenty of that going

Simon Dell (39:23)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (39:23)
on in the community. And I think it's you know, I just I love it. I love what we've we've we've created and I'm really excited about the fact that we've given

Simon Dell (39:29)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (39:30)
people a space for this to happen. And I guess yeah, if people want to join, jump in, test it out.

See if you like it, but you know, like you said, it's been exploding and that's just because people that jump in there get so much value out of it and and they keep telling their friends, which is great.

Simon Dell (39:43)
Yeah, I think from my perspective, one of the refreshing things about it was there are, you know, and again we won't name them, but there are other retail organizations, retail representative organizations out there,

Dean Salakas (39:56)
Plenty, there's plenty.

Simon Dell (39:57)
who I found are very

finance you know driven. And I think to a degree some of them have forgotten the purpose behind what they're they're there to do. And I think with

Dean Salakas (40:18)
Hundred percent.

Simon Dell (40:18)
with your group, it really feels like purpose is first, you know, and and everything else comes from that.

Dean Salakas (40:25)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

I mean I have to you know, walk the talk if you want to call it that. For but I talk about, you know, solving a problem and this solves a problem and that's gonna be put first always. So when and I can tell you now every day some service provider calls me up and says, Can I advertise in the group? And it's like, no, you can't. Because it it it it takes away from the experience. not so much, it's just a little one. It's like, yeah, yeah, no, anything that takes away from what we're trying to do.

i that's anything that's any in any way detrimental, we won't do it. So I get I get asked I get asked I get offered money every day to for people to advertise in there and I just won't allow it because that's

Simon Dell (41:00)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (41:01)
that's and look I could make a lot of money doing it like I even did the numbers the other day and we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars if I start charging these guys for what they're doing. But you know, we're gonna build what is something that Jethro and I both wanted for

us as business owners and we'll just keep doing that and we'll always be staying on mission and if these guys want to pay to have access, we'll we'll find ways to do it, but it won't be compromising what gives people the most value, which is having a safe space. They can go in and ask questions. They're not going to be spammed. They're not going to be pitched. But you can ask. I mean, don't get me wrong, if you go in there and you say, Hey, I need a three PL or I need a marketing person, by all means, Simon, jump in there and tell you can help them out. you're welcome to do that, but no one's in

Simon Dell (41:36)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dean Salakas (41:39)
there unsolicited pitching, that's for sure. There's not that

Simon Dell (41:42)
Look, I I did

a a a a webinar podcast the other week with a lady who had built and I'm gonna forget the na I f forget the organisation that she had, but she she'd built this lunch thing for women female women's lunch thing and she would get at its peak she would be getting you know, a thousand people along to a lunch on a on a Friday, you know.

Dean Salakas (42:04)
well. Yeah, well.

Simon Dell (42:06)
And

Essentially the way she made money was she went to people that were, you know, businesses and said, Do you have a product that these women would be interested in? And if you do, you can come along and share the product in a demonstrations kind of way. And so the women would come to the lunch, they'd all be drinking the champagne, having a great old time, and then there was products turning up going, Hey, we just want to show you our latest, you know, fashion item or whatever it was, right?

And and and that's kind of where I go. That feels like you're still in the safe space. And if I was going along to a retail thing that was focused on networking and education and support and help, but someone turned around and say, Hey look, can we show you this at the same time? I'd be like, Yeah, of course you can. Because because the focus is not about those those products, the focus is about help and support.

Dean Salakas (43:00)
Yeah, I would say

I agree with you, but I'd say we we do take it further there. We we don't let them so we have sponsors at our events.

Simon Dell (43:05)
Yeah. No.

Dean Salakas (43:06)
We don't let them share what they do. We we we have

Simon Dell (43:09)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (43:09)
it in there in a subtle way, so we have it on the page who the sponsors are and what they do, but they can't pitch.

They can't get up they

Simon Dell (43:14)
Yeah.

Dean Salakas (43:15)
don't get a speaking slot on stage or any of that. Just because again, I hate going to these things and hate getting pitched too. So I I love learning about stuff, but I don't want to be pitched too. So

Simon Dell (43:21)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dean Salakas (43:24)
and there's a difference, right? So you don't mind so you know, if if if you see there that there's someone there and you wanna look into it, you can look into it on your own time. so

Simon Dell (43:31)
Yeah, yeah.

Dean Salakas (43:33)
we don't we don't allow any pitching at NR events. We have we have dinners, people pay for the dinners, people pay for the sponsors, people pay for the drinks, but so yeah, so we have sponsors, that's how we

You know, we make money, we we have sponsors pay for our events, but they don't get to pick. It's that simple.

Simon Dell (43:47)
Yeah.

Yeah. Mate, thank you for your time today. it has been

Dean Salakas (43:50)
Really? Go.

Simon Dell (43:51)
fun and educational and I've got lots of notes for the next

Dean Salakas (43:54)
Great to chat to you.

Simon Dell (43:55)
the next time we talk and mate, appreciate your time.

Dean Salakas (43:58)
Looking forward

to catching up next time.